I agree; anyone who wants to know the background should feel free to read the whole thread, both here and in the lingr room. (And, in fact, to join the discussion there, if they'd like to. Real-time conversation with other TPMers is quite a trip.)

I'm just pointing that my interpretation of bee's comments, both here and in the chat room, is that she was looking to provoke a discussion, to add some energy to a site where it's been flagging lately. I understood "fight" in that context to be more akin to "debate" than "argument."

And, from reading Vedere's response, I think that Vedere interpreted bee's comments (above) in the same way.

Posted at July 8, 2008 11:48 PM in response to The War of Northern Aggression

Cypher, "start a fight" can have many meanings. Like "provoke comment," for example.

Posted at July 8, 2008 11:35 PM in response to The War of Northern Aggression

Oh, and I meant to say, of course we DID make that cathedral, and it was glorious.

Posted at July 8, 2008 10:54 PM in response to The War of Northern Aggression

I was going to reply with a comment about David McCullough's Cathedral, but a quick trip to Amazon saved me from that ignomy. Turns out David Macaulay is a different person. But since I got started... My sophomore year in high school, my Western Civilization teacher had us read Cathedral. It's mostly a book about the construction and layout of cathedrals, but of course that relates to the cultural implications thereof. So, this particular teacher, whom many suspected of sneaking a shot of "Scope" mouthwash between classes, told us that we would call out, "cathedral" during class, and then we would all run out on to the lawn and build a human cathedral. With a transept and everything.

I'm not sure how that relates to the original post, but that's my example of history brought to life.

Posted at July 8, 2008 10:46 PM in response to The War of Northern Aggression

There's an example of quinn sharing a link in BG's last thread: http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/06/i-know-more-than-you-do.php

Beyond that, I don't know much.

As far as why a new poster is accused so quickly of being a fake, it seems that people on this site like to know with whom they're speaking. Like the familiarity thing, I think. So it's a little disconcerting when a new character shows up with a working relationship -- as if, for example, your mother's best friend came over for tea and started asking personal questions about, oh, how your relationship was going. So that's part of what goes on.

Also, I think that some posters here find the idea of one poster taking on multiple voices to make a point (while pretending to be different people) manipulative. For Crankypants, MonicaL, idiotic, and fake Sinbad, the part that's different is that they are clearly fictional characters. From the start. It's like you're looking for a restaurant, and you read a bunch of reviews saying this one particular place is great. So you show up, and the food's ok, but it's nothing to call your friends about. And then you find out that all those reviews were written by the restaurant owner. Nothing's really been compromised; the owner didn't do anything mean; but you feel a bit used. Taken advantage of. Confused. I don't think people like that. (Though some here enjoy the game of figuring it all out, I'll admit.) So I think some of what's going on is that peole are worried about getting suckered into going to another "meh" restaurant, and they're suspicious. (I'm sure if I knew more about psychology, I could write pages on that. Luckily I don't.) So suspicion, jealousy, whatever it is -- nobody wants to be a sucker or a rube -- makes people cautious. Perhaps overly so.

I'm not saying that's a fair thing, or even a good thing. I'm just saying I see a causal relationship.

Me, I don't mind so much interacting with a putative "psuedo." I just make my peace that I don't actually know to whom I'm talking, and as long the other voice stays in character, it works for me. I suppose it's the part of me that abstracts and compartmentalizes that rules there.

Posted at July 6, 2008 3:51 AM in response to What I Learned on My Summer Suspension

Thanks, Evainne. I'll keep an eye out for his posts.

Posted at July 6, 2008 1:00 AM in response to What I Learned on My Summer Suspension

You are primarily referring to this comment, I take it? http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/readers-contributions-to-tpm-p.php#comment-2839496

I haven't checked the terms of use of TPM, but those terms sound reasonable and authentic. However, there's plenty of gray area as well -- for example, if I mention that I live in San Francisco, and someone happens to remember that, is that "collecting and storing personal information about another user"? It probably is, but I don't think that it would violate the intent of the TOS to do so. That's why I say I don't feel qualified to comment on quinn's experience without knowing the details.

Oh, and far as my "group" -- I will also say, for the record, that I don't feel as though I have a "group" here. I have a few closer connections, and I have also come to appreciate a rather large set of the population -- some of whom I speak to more than others, either because of comfort or becuase they chose topics that I have something to say about -- but all of whom I respect. But I'm ultimately here because I want to learn something from people who know more than I do and from people who've had different experiences than I've had, especially the ones I haven't "met" yet.

I think there's a tricky social aspect, which is that, due to limited time, I tend to short cut through posts to read the ones by posters who have established themselves (in my eyes) as consistently producing interesting content, and I agree that there are some pitfalls associated with that approach. The only way I can think to correct for those pitfalls, though, without simply adding more time to my day, is to rely on other people to comment about the interesting things they've read -- much as you and Evainne were doing here yesterday.

Posted at July 6, 2008 12:34 AM in response to What I Learned on My Summer Suspension

Ah, the issue of multiple posts. I knew there was something I'd forgotten. Probably it's more accurate to interpret my silence on that as disagreement on how important an issue that is than on tacit acceptance of the pattern. I'm happy to give my thoughts, though.

To begin with, the two posts you're referencing were by Allsburg, and they were very different in nature. One was a political discussion, and the other was a plea to bring back some of the liveliness that a previous poster used to contribute. I had no problem with seeing both of those posts on the rec list. Reasons: the particular poster has not posted much else recently, so it was not as though he had dominated the list in prior days and the content of the discussions in each post was very different.

I think, perhaps, that there are two (well, more than that, but let's start simple) primary use cases for TPM message boards -- one is commentary on current events, and it is characterized by a quick, simple post, relatively light on analysis, and ephemeral in nature; the other is a more involved, political commentary that delves into issues that are more long-standing and requires more effort to discuss with any authenticity. I do not think that the TPM Café structure does a good job of enabling both types of discussion to inter-operate. Instead, the focus in on a middle ground -- an attempt at quick reactions, but with more polished and cogent analysis that sometimes works but leaves little room for either extreme.

So, what I'm trying to say, is that I think the problem is not necessarily multiple posts by the same user but a very divergent set of goals from the different users of TPM.

Posted at July 5, 2008 11:09 PM in response to What I Learned on My Summer Suspension

I always thought the "but in a manner prescribed by law" in times of war part was to make sure that the quartering was appropriately regulated. But I'm no constitutional lawyer. I just ever-so-vaguely remember 7th grade.

Posted at July 5, 2008 12:42 PM in response to Is There a Fourth Amendment?

Um. Wow. I totally overlooked this (saw the word "FISA" in the title and tuned out) -- but then, tonight, I saw this post referenced in another thread and came back to take a look. I don't have any real input to contribute -- and it probably doesn't matter since this post is now languishing -- but I just wanted to say that I appreciate both Elizabeth2's efforts and the comments and discussion of most others that followed.

Posted at July 5, 2008 3:26 AM in response to Serious question (really): Why is the FISA telecom immunity important?