GQ is about to post a very interesting, and long, interview with Mark Penn that has a bunch of news in it.

We have some advance excerpts. Here, for instance, is Penn saying that he recognized early on what a phenomenon Obama is and wanted to attack Obama more aggressively, particularly on Iraq, but unnamed others on the campaign opposed it:

GQ: How did you underestimate him [meaning Barack Obama]?

Mark Penn: I think I never underestimated it, that once you had that kind of candidate, that that kind of candidate could be real trouble. And that if that candidate... You know, if Obama won Iowa, it would really change, dramatically change, the situation going forward. And consequently, I really wanted to question Obama as early as possible.

GQ: You wanted to hit him harder?

Well, I wanted to question the basic underpinning of his campaign... His problems in his campaign were (1) that he didn't have the usual experience of somebody running for president, and (2) that the positions he took on Iraq--you know, that were revered by the press--didn't really hold up when you look through his record in the Senate.

GQ: Why didn't you?

Well, I started down that road.... President Clinton took on the Iraq back-and-forth. But the rest of the campaign didn't want to tackle Iraq. They always felt that that was a losing proposition for her, and they always pulled it back.

Penn also sharply attacked the press, arguing that members of the media "fell in love" with Obama...

GQ: When you talk about the media and the treatment of her, you know, part of it--in the beginning of the campaign, back when it seemed like she was the inevitable nominee--she was really distant from the press. Don't you think that had something to do with the fact that the press fell in love with Obama?

Well...no. [laughs] The press fell in love with him, period.

GQ: Why?

The press always falls in love with the new cool intellectual candidate. You know, he is their kind of candidate. Go back through history. They didn't like Al Gore. They loved Gary Hart. They love those kinds of candidates, always have. But--but--but look, I think that he was the first African-American, you know, credible presidential candidate was a factor behind how much the press was enthusiastic about him. But she was also the first woman candidate. But the standard...

You know, the microscope that they put her under, that they did not put her opponent and opponents under, was just incredible. I don't think anybody has ever been put under this kind of microscope running for president. There were certain times early in the campaign where she would try to be...do what people tell her, and say, "Hey, I'll be more relaxed, I'll tell a little joke." But every time she told the joke, it became a, you know, a federal case. Her words are parsed. Every single word is parsed. By the right, by the left, by the press.

More coming from the interview soon.

Hillary's former chief strategist denies that story we posted on below saying that Penn didn't know that Dems don't do winner-take-all primaries.

I have no idea what's true here. It's worth noting, however, that if Penn didn't know this, he would have managed to get through Bill Clinton's 1996 campaign (though in fairness there were no primaries) and Joe Lieberman's in 2004 without ever learning this basic fact about the nomination process.

Anything is possible, I suppose, particularly when it involves Penn.

With the Clinton campaign widely viewed as being on its last legs, staffers are now more free than ever to dish out some dirt on the many strategic blunders of Mark Penn.

The latest: At a strategy session last year, Penn reportedly said that a Clinton win in California would effectively wrap up the nomination by awarding her all of the state's 370 delegates.

As we all know, Democrats don't do winner-take-all primaries, but instead use a form of proportional representation that has been in force for about 20 years -- a fact that didn't seem to sink in with the Clinton campaign and their big-state strategy.

Obama, today in Indiana:

“I think it was surprising to me that a high ranking, if not the highest ranking, member of Senator Clinton’s team would be engaged in business activities and lobbying that was directly contrary to the position Senator Clinton had taken,” he said.

But if one of his advisors had done the same thing?

“Let me put it this way: I’m not surprised that Senator Clinton found herself in an uncomfortable position as a consequence. And I know that if staff of mine were putting me in that kind of position, I would get rid of them.”

Hillary spokesperson Jay Carson's response:

“When Sen Obama’s top economic advisor told the Canadian government not to take his anti-NAFTA rhetoric seriously, he and his staff misleadingly denied that the meeting ever occurred, and then took absolutely no action,” Carson said in a statement. “It’s good to know he has a higher standard for our campaign than his own.”

That last barb was a pretty good line, Jay, though I'm sure lots of folks will be objecting to the Goolsbee-Penn comparison, since they're hardly of comparable stature within the campaigns and were engaged in different types of activities.

Late Update: Oh, and Penn was getting paid; Goolsbee wasn't.

Late Late Update: It's also worth noting, however, that Goolsbee was reported (though it's been disputed) to have been characterizing Obama's position, while Penn wasn't characterizing Hillary's position. Meanwhile, here's video of Obama:

Although Mark Penn is still involved in the Clinton campaign, his overall influence has reportedly diminished to the point where something notable has happened: On the campaign's internal conference calls, his ideas can be shot down.

"Every little ad and direct-mail and radio spot and speech had to have Mark's approval on it—he could look at everything he wanted," one staffer said. "That's no longer the case."

Mark Penn isn't going anywhere.

On the Hillary campaign's conference call moments ago, Hillary spokesperson Howard Wolfson left zero doubt: Camp Hillary will not be heeding the Obama campaign's demand that they fire Penn completely.

Asked about reports that Penn is still participating on internal campaign strategy calls, Wolfson said, "I'm not going to send out a daily email about who's on which calls and who isn't," clarifying: "Mark is no longer senior strategist, but he will be playing a continuing role in strategy."

Pressed by a reporter to explain the difference between Penn's former and current status, Wolfson said: "The difference would be between the editor in chief of your newspaper and one who plays an important role at your newspaper."

He added that "anyone at a workplace" would understand "the difference between someone who is playing the key role" and "someone who is playing an important role."

So there you have it: Penn will continue playing an "important" role.

After leaving this to surrogates for a couple days, the Obama campaign is ratcheting up the pressure on onetime Hillary chief strategist to ax Mark Penn once and for all, in the apparent hope that keeping Penn front and center will weaken her grip on her base of blue collar voters in Pennsylvania and other remaining states.

On an Obama campaign conference call moments ago, the Obama camp rolled out high-profile labor supporter James Hoffa, the president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, who called on the Clinton camp to end Penn's association completely.

"You can't have a guy on your payroll who's lobbying for Colombia," Hoffa said, adding that it was time for her to "end his services completely." He blasted Penn for "taking money from a foreign nation" to boost the free trade agreement that "she says she's going to vote against."

Hoffa added that Penn was a continuing drain on Hillary's "credibility," claiming that Penn is "still calling the shots," which is certainly debatable -- while Penn is still playing a role, obviously, Geoff Garin has taken over as senior strategist.

One other interesting nugget from the call: Hoffa referred to some internal polling that he claimed showed that Obama's race was not resonating as an issue among union members.

Geoff Garin, the new chief pollster for the Clinton campaign, says that he wants the campaign to focus on the positives for Hillary — an indication that he might be a change of pace from Mark Penn's reported desire to focus more on going negative against Barack Obama.

The key questions, of course, are whether Garin can accomplish this with the voters, and whether Mark Penn's influence truly has diminished enough that he can get it off the ground to begin with.

Here's an interesting postscript to the saga of Mark Penn, who stepped down from his role as Hillary's chief strategist yesterday:

Penn had an earlier version of the infamous 3 A.M. ad that was much more of a negative spot attacking Barack Obama, and the attack prompted objections from other senior Hillary advisers, a Hillaryland source familiar with internal discussions over the ad tells me.

Among those senior advisers who objected to the ad's negative content was senior ad guru Mandy Grunwald, who's clashed with Penn in the past, the source says.

Just after Hillary's Ohio and Texas wins, Penn credited the actual ad, which contained no direct hit on Obama, with breaking his momentum.

But the version that did this -- to the extent that the ad worked -- was a later, and more positive spot, than one initially proposed by Penn, the source says.

"This was the way it was originally conceived," the adviser says. "It did not say the words `Barack Obama.' But there was a contrast part. It had a clear hit on Obama and it also had a much more negative feeling with the music."

The adviser continues: "The original ad asked, Who would you prefer answering the call -- someone with strength and experience, or someone who's untested?"

The clash over the ad underscores yet again the extent to which Penn clashed with other senior Hillary advisers about the campaign's message and direction. Some Hillary advisers hope that Penn's departure will signal less reliance on heavy-handed assertions about Obama's supposed weakness in comparison with Hillary and more of an emphasis on humanizing Hillary and showcasing her leadership abilities.

The disagreement over the ad also undercuts Penn's own justification for the ad. Shortly after news of the ad broke, Penn described the ad during a conference call with reporters as "a positive spot" with "very soft images."

The Hillary campaign and Penn's office both declined to comment on the clash over the ad; Grunwald didn't return repeated calls.

Hillary Clinton has a new ad in Indiana featuring popular Sen. Evan Bayh, who declares that Hillary will have "a spine of steel" in fighting for the state's workers:

Interestingly, Bayh promises that Hillary will fight against unfair trade deals — a sign of just how off-message Mark Penn was in his dealings with the Colombian government. It's not clear whether this ad was taped before or after the Penn story hit.

Mark Penn's demotion from his position as Hillary Clinton's top strategist has done little to solve the problem Penn has created for her with Big Labor.

The Change To Win labor federation, which has endorsed Barack Obama and has an estimated six-million members from seven big unions, has put up a blog post with the simple title, "Mark Penn Still Has To Go."

And they don't just mean Penn has to go from the campaign — they mean he has to be kicked out of the Democratic Party entirely.

"Our message on this matter is simple," writes Jason Lefkowitz, the federation's online communications director. "People who represent union-busters should not be welcome in the Democratic Party. People who represent death squads targeting trade unionists should not be welcome in the Democratic Party."

Today's Gallup tracking poll gives Barack Obama a nine-point national lead over Hillary Clinton, well outside the margin of error. Here are the numbers, compared to yesterday:

Obama 52% (+3)
Clinton 43% (-3)

Gallup's analysis notes that Obama had an especially good polling day on Sunday, possibly owing to the combination of Mark Penn's demotion and media coverage of the Clintons' tax returns. We'll find out in the next few days whether this is just statistical noise, or something sustainable.

The daily Clinton campaign conference call, usually consisting of the daily slam against Obama followed by a freewheeling Q and A, took an unusual form this morning.

Instead, the call was purely about policy, focusing exclusively on questions about Hillary's new initiative on breast-cancer awareness — perhaps because the campaign is determined not to have to answer any more questions about Mark Penn's departure.

For those who want to listen, here it is:

Some more details have come out about Mark Penn's demotion from top Clinton strategist to mere pollster, showing that the Colombia meeting was the final straw that broke the Clintons' confidence in him.

Hillary Clinton, previously loyal to Penn, was reportedly enraged at the news that he'd met with the Colombian ambassador, leading her and Bill to insist that he be removed from his post as the chief strategist. And thus may have ended a close political relationship that goes all the way back to 1996.

Some more details have come out about Mark Penn's demotion from top Clinton strategist to mere pollster, showing that the Colombia meeting was the final straw that broke the Clintons' confidence in him.

Hillary Clinton, previously loyal to Penn, was reportedly enraged at the news that he'd met with the Colombian ambassador, leading her and Bill to insist that he be removed from his post as the chief strategist. And thus may have ended a close political relationship that goes all the way back to 1996.

Mark Penn has been ousted from his position as the Clinton campaign's chief strategist, in the wake of news reports that he'd been separately doing lobbyist work on a Colombian trade deal that Hillary opposes. This is on top of the Colombian government firing him yesterday, after he'd publicly apologized for working with them.

Penn isn't totally gone, however. According to the Clinton campaign's statement, he will still be doing polling for the campaign, and dispensing advice.

Late Update: Here's the full statement:

Statement from Maggie Williams

After the events of the last few days, Mark Penn has asked to give up his role as Chief Strategist of the Clinton Campaign; Mark, and Penn, Schoen and Berland Associates, Inc. will continue to provide polling and advice to the campaign.

Geoff Garin and Howard Wolfson will coordinate the campaign's strategic message team going forward.

Late Late Update: It now appears that Hillary Clinton herself demanded Penn's removal.

The Colombian government has terminated its contract with chief Clinton strategist Mark Penn's lobbying firm, after he apologized for personally meeting with their ambassador on Monday to discuss strategy for a free-trade deal that Hillary Clinton publicly opposes.

Apparently the Colombians did not take kindly to Penn calling the meeting "an error in judgment." From their statement: "The Colombian government considers this a lack of respect to Colombians, and finds this response unacceptable."

Top Clinton strategist Mark Penn has apologized for meeting on Monday with the Colombian ambassador, as part of his lobbying work for a trade deal that Hillary publicly opposes:

"The meeting was an error in judgment that will not be repeated and I am sorry for it. The senator's well known opposition to this trade deal is clear and was not discussed."

Meanwhile, Ben Smith reports that the Change To Win labor federation, which has endorsed Barack Obama, is calling upon Hillary to fire Penn.

In what could become Hillary Clinton's own version of the NAFTA-Gate controversy that caused Barack Obama so much trouble a month ago, top Clinton strategist Mark Penn reportedly met on Monday with the Colombian ambassador to discuss a bilateral free-trade deal — something his candidate has publicly opposed.

In a case study on the dangers of wearing too many hats, Penn's attendance was in his capacity as the head of his lobbying firm Burson-Marsteller Worldwide. Expect the Obama camp to hit Clinton for this on at least two angles: Hypocrisy on trade, and having as her top strategist a lobbyist for a foreign government.