Sleeper Bill of the Month: Our Own Truth & Reconciliation Commission
It happens more often than you might think on Capitol Hill: a new bill is announced by a congressional office, with little fanfare and fewer co-sponsors than it deserves but a purpose so abundantly sensible that the plan cries out for more attention.
Such is the case with H.R. 104, a bill introduced on Tuesday by House judiciary committee chairman John Conyers (D-MI) and nine other lawmakers. The measure would set up a National Commission on Presidential War Powers and Civil Liberties, with subpoena power and a reported budget of around $3 million, to investigate issues ranging from detainee treatment to waterboarding to extraordinary rendition. The panel's members would hail from outside the government and be appointed by the president and congressional leaders of both parties.
Sounds like a great idea. In fact, it sounds a lot like Senate armed services committee chairman Carl Levin's (D-MI) proposed interrogation-policy commission that has been kicking around since 2005. So why does such a good bill only have 10 co-sponsors?
The answer is complicated -- and neither House Speaker Nancy Pelosi nor Majority Leader Steny Hoyer have returned my calls to talk about it. But I'd wager that it has a lot to do with the Democratic majority's desire to turn the page on the Bush years and begin pressing on with an Obama agenda designed to showcase its ability to govern. Nothing wrong with that.
But as the stimulus plan and financial regulation and health care reform and a host of worthy issues takes up the oxygen in Washington over the coming months, who will make sure that accountability for past misdeeds gets as much attention as current achievements? Who will shed more sunshine on the debacles of the Bush years?
There's support in the House for it (although not yet, it appears, from leadership). There's a constituency in the Senate for it, and inside the Obama camp. Does anybody think that this sleeper bill will get so much as a hearing in any of the three separate committees it's been referred to?
We're watching, and we'll let you know.
Late Update: HuffPo spotted a Conyers appearance on the Bill Press show, in which the lawmaker suggests that the best forum for investigating Bush administration crimes may be the World Court or another international body.
Given that our current (still) president rejected the International Criminal Court -- though he had at least one kumbaya moment with the U.N. International Court of Justice -- it would be deliciously ironic to see Bush finally face the music on an international level. Still, wouldn't a domestically convened panel be the best, and most cathartic, venue for an inquiry like this?
Late Late Update: You can read a draft version of H.R. 104 here.















Hopefully this isn't one of those Truth & Reconciliation Commissions that ends in everyone holding hands and saying the past is the past and no need to hold anyone accountable for the crimes.
After eight years of this shit, I don't really feel like kissing and making up is going to do justice.
January 9, 2009 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with your sentiments. Unfortunately, the kiss and make up part will be what happens at the end of the day. At least, hopefully the truth gets out and laws get past so that it doesn't happen again. Also, the king's legacy will forever be destroyed by such a commission. Just shedding some light on the atrocities of the king's administration will be a huge benefit.
January 9, 2009 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well I'll definitely agree that the truth and no punishment is better than no truth and no punishment, which is probably the only other alternative.
Sadly I don't think people will even learn that much from the past even if all the truth comes out. They are always trying to blame this on Bush ("just a few bad apples", right?), as if the whole disaster of the last 8 years wasn't a direct result of a failed ideology coming from a corrupt party.
Bah! (I may need a politics-free weekend)
January 9, 2009 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, but don't forget to save a steaming shitload of blame for Bush in any event. Fuck him, you can just look in his sociopathic simian face and realize he enjoyed fanning the flames of every petty, evil impulse put before him by the scum that surrounded him (don't forget that he selected the particular scum in question). I agree about failed ideology from a corrupt party, but it took a criminally inclined narcissist like him to work as a suitable puppet figure, and the most loathsome sentiments of his party constitute his essence through and through.
January 9, 2009 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the good of the soul of our country, a Truth Commission is a must. I doubt even in the worst administrations in the past, any of them even comes close to the malfeasance of this Bush Administration. As a Christian, I am appalled at the level of fraud by this supposed "Christian" administration that has been full of deception, disregard for the laws of the land and the constant push to skirt the legal system in our country and international law. Now if other countries do the rendition and torture thing on any of our POWs, America will be left slack-jawed since the behavior of the Bush Administration has flouted the international treaties to which we have signed those treaties. What a sad day for the reputation of our country and the rule of law. We all can rightfully hang our heads in shame because of the behavior of this administration.
January 11, 2009 2:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Cynical:
10 cosponsors because it is circle the wagons time on Versailles-by-the-Potomac
Charitable:
The anti-bush fervor there and in the hinterlands is understandably - How in the EFF are we going to clean up Little Georgie's big mess
January 9, 2009 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think Americans in general want to revisit the partisanship an investigation of the sort would stir up.
At least I don't. We've got some HUGE agendas to get going, fixing health care, making sure we've got a clean environment, scalable energy policy, massive focus on early childhood education. These issues need attention from both sides of the isle.
I understand people feel the Constitution has been walked upon. But, starting this now isn't going to help in the slightest to get support from the other side on the big agendas I mentioned.
January 9, 2009 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
The other side needs to be reminded this is a democracy and we ALL live by the rule of law. The lawlessness of the Bush Administration needs to be revealed for all to see and there must be a reckoning. If for no other reason then for George W. Bush to grow up and learn the lesson that the leaders of democracy do answer to the people. In the bigger picture, to restore some moral credibility in the world which presently cannot take us seriously for allowing it to persist for not one, but two terms.
January 9, 2009 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen, completely. The last thing we need is to have this dick get away with it all with no shaming because everybody decided that our imminent problems were too overwhelming. The insults to the constitution and to core principles need to be addressed.
January 9, 2009 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
It wasn't only Bu$h and his Administration. It was the repug controlled Congress that allowed this to occur without exercising oversight.
So this commission need not concern itself with doling out punishment, rather they need to get the truth out for everyone to see for themselves who, what, why, where and when. The record will show just how deep the repugs this hole. And once it is known, the chances of recovering their posture in the political game will be insignificant to a point where they may as well close shop.
January 10, 2009 9:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
When The Hague comes a calling they'll ask us - the US Congress-
why we didn't have any investigation into Bush and Co and what will we say? "Opps? We wanted to get on with things..."? Yeah, that will go over well...
January 10, 2009 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
To which we'll say, "So what?", and that will be that.
International law is a well-meaning farce under any circumstances.
January 11, 2009 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
I totally agree with your statement. Revealing the unblemished truth to us now and to posterity is a great thing. It will show that citizens of our great country demand accountability and just exposing the facts is enough and will not rob time needed to clean up the GW mess. History will show what a sorry President he has been and that is punishment enough. It also will be a lesson for future Presidents if they have any brains at all.
January 11, 2009 2:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can't believe you really expect that by our Legislative Branch officially pretending that this last administration was not a bunch of: [a] traitors, who did violence against our Constitution, and; [b] war criminals, who require Nuremberg-like consequences... somehow, the Democrats will suddenly "get support" from the minority on the other side of the chasm, I mean, aisle.
The only way the R's will ever cooperate with the majority, is if every piece of Dem legislation is watered-down so heavily, as not to offend right-wing sensibilities (if even that), or is so laden with ideological right-wing pork that you find it offensive. Failing that, they'll threaten to stop the works, completely, and capitulation will just happen.
(Ask me how I know this. )
The bar on the "agenda" and its "huge issues" will be moved so severly, and with such spin and comeraderie, that you won't even know you're being tube-fed Bush Lite.
So, tell me again why we need to be all Christlike and forgiving? They're only biding their time, until they can run against a "do-nothing Congress!!" (helpfully, they will personally see to it that Congress "does nothing"!), lie their way back into office, and shit on America one more time.
Kill the roaches, before they lay their eggs.
January 10, 2009 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand how Democrats can move on Obama's agenda without addressing torture, and the Bush Administration's possible crimes with respect to torture.
I understand that there're are huge problems confronting us, and that they need attention. But it seems deeply immoral to simply turn the page on the Bush years. And dangerous, as well, for our future. But I fear we're going to hear a lot of "The past is past, and it's time to move on" language. I hope, fervently, that I'm wrong, and I was very much heartened by Obama saying we're going to abide by the Geneva Conventions. I have little faith in the Democrats, however.
January 9, 2009 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Given the (lack of) spine that the Dems have shown in the 2 years since gaining the majority, I'd have to confess to the same lack of faith. I haven't been able to tell Democrats from Republicans since Jimmy Carter left Washington. Maybe that's why Sarah Palin felt that she could have run on the Dem ticket successfully.
January 9, 2009 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is not an either-or. There's no reason why investigating the crimes of the Bush administration needs to prevent progress on other things.
After WWII, a lot of people argued that the Nazi war criminals should just be hung and that there was no requirement in international law for a lengthy trial. The Truman administration decided that not only were trials necessary, but that they needed to be very public, and the Nuremberg trials were the result. There were also public trials at The Hague for Milosevic. Now we have people making the opposite arguments regarding the Bush crimes - that they should just be forgotten. It's important - for the very same reasons it was important in the case of the Nazis and Milosevic - that there is a very public show that justice is done and people are held accountable for their crimes, no matter who they are.
The punishment ultimately imposed is almost secondary. It's the catharsis of bringing perpetrators to answer for their crimes that's important.
January 9, 2009 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely.
Because Nixon got away scot-free, Reagan and 41 got away with Iran/Contra.
Because Reagan and 41 got away with Iran/Contra, Smirky-Darth is getting away with Treason and War Crimes.
Because Smirky-Darth get away with Treason and War Crimes, what will the next repug who snatches the presidency get away with?
We're half an inch away from being a lawless banana republic.
The key is not how law-abiding the Obama administration is; the key is whether the Obama administration upholds the Rule Of Law for everyone, even former presidents.
January 9, 2009 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some of the stuff written by Dawn Johnsen, Obama's OLC pick, points to her concern that the Bu$h Admin abused the legal system to persue their political agenda. I suspect she'll ferret out all the nasty, hidden legal tricks hidden under the rugs. Depending on what they find in the first 3 months will determine if President Obama needs to consider a commission.
January 10, 2009 9:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Amen. More on that coming when I have time.
January 10, 2009 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a pile of "BS",a commission for what.anyone remember the 911 commission ?That sure helped.Another attempt to cover the asses of members of congress who helped the Bush Admin.
January 9, 2009 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're right Juble...
*Congressman Conyers, we will not support you on this one. We want a special prosecutor and we want it as soon as the new AG has taken his oath of office.*
Those of us who have been actively supporting the party and the election of Obama want this from you and the Democrats in Congress:
(1) We expect you to stand up and call for accountability for ALL who supported the crimes of the Bush administration.
(2) We are sick and very tired of Democrats (especially the leadership and those who block the will of the people for any reason) who are not willing to directly encounter the faces of evil who allowed Bush and Cheney to destroy our country.
It is immoral and tragic that you, John Conyers, Jr. would actually attempt to set-up a commission like this and then say something stupid like your comment that the World Court might be the best arena for investigating Bush administration crimes.
The ONLY reason you would say that is because you don't have the courage to do it yourself Mr. Conyers. You were stopped by Nancy Pelosi and what you told me were "... political considerations" when you refused to move forward with impeachment. Now you're willing to let these SOBs walk away from the responsibly for their actions?
You were elected to the US Congress to do the moral and ethical thing to represent your constituents and all Americans as Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee.
You don't have any excuse this time Mr. Conyers. Tell Pelosi to go to hell and start an impeachment hearing or go to Obama and ask him to give the new AG the okay to appoint a special prosecutor.
You have the power to get it done and we expect you to use it!
January 9, 2009 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't get the hurry of these Dems in Congress. Wait until Jan. 21st to pursue this stuff. All you're going to get is efforts to destroy records and obstruct justice at best, blanket pardons at worst.
Wait until they're out of office. That should be a total no-brainer to anyone smart enough to get elected to Congress, so maybe they're working some other angle.
January 9, 2009 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's what I keep thinking. Why not let it simmer until these clowns are out of office and don't have a pardon pen? Doing it this way seems like political idiocy.
IMO - put some good folks at justice who are quietly charged with looking into it. Let them come, hat-in-hand, saying "look, I know you want to move on ... but we REALLY need to look at this." Then it's a rule of law issue instead of a political witch hunt issue.
Maybe you're right and it's a different angle they're looking at. But I don't think that getting elected to congress even necessarily indicates they are smart enough to tie their own shoes.
January 9, 2009 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's time we turned the page on the page-turners.
January 9, 2009 4:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree. We have enough capacity in the government to tackle the economy, health care, education, the environment, and still convene a group of people to methodically and relentlessly gather facts about the past 8 years, catalog the crimes (Vol. 14, Bushdemeanors, A-M is one I'm looking forward to seeing), and send the crooks to the Hague and Alcatraz.
The main reason the turn-the-pagers want to turn the page is so their heirs, I mean successors, will perpetuate the turn-the-page-ing.
And for those of you who claim doing so will "divide the country" and "take attention away from the bigger task at hand" I suggest you raise your expectations of your fellow Americans.
January 9, 2009 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree - turning the page on the Constitutional abuses that have occurred in the past 8 years is implicit approval. We are better than that or at least we should be.
January 9, 2009 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
They're trying to figure out how to make it a congressional committee, which means use it for campaign purposes but never let anything relevant happen. The hill is a place where your friends are more dangerous than your enemies.
January 9, 2009 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah - who needs an outside "bi-partisan" commission. Why can't Congress just have one hearing a month from now until the end of time on the Bush era crimes until it's all been exposed. Be the bull dog - bite down and never let go.
January 9, 2009 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fuck the kumbaya stuff. There need to be indictments, not only so that justice is served but to deter future officials from similar conduct.
January 9, 2009 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
NO! No! NO!
Mr. Conyers is under the spell of the Democratic Party leadership and he knows better.
The "truth" has already been investigated to the point that we ONLY need an Obama AG to appoint a special prosecutor and to do what they have to do to enforce the subpoenas for Bolton, Miers and Rove.
No more commissions and reconciliation. We want accountability and we want it now. If Obama won't stand up for accountability for the criminals who have gotten us into this dark and dreary hell we're in, then he is not my president and you shouldn't support him either.
If Dem leadership, including Pelosi and even VP-elect Biden, were part of the Bush cabal or if they signed off to torture and spying and did nothing to stop them, then they need to be responsible for their actions that allowed Bush and Cheney to remain in office to do more damage to our country and to the global economic picture.
Congressman Conyers, we will not support you on this one. We want a special prosecutor and we want it as soon as the new AG has taken his oath of office.
January 9, 2009 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lustration. Defenestration. Incarceration.
....'bout friggin' time!
Go John! Go!
January 9, 2009 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
just to clarify how important our representatives believe this investigation is (except, of course, to appease us commoners), the newly formed Department of Homeland Security held a bash in New York City after its 1st year in existence to give out lifetime achievement awards (remember that?).
The bill: Just over a million dollars.
3 million dollars budgeted for this committee won't even buy the doughnuts for the 1st month of meetings, let alone an investigation....
January 9, 2009 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Any takers? Let's not kid ourselves.
For eight years the Congress has completely abdicated its role as a counterbalance to the executive; most of these people have no regard for their constitutional role much less respect from themselves, with the results we see today all around us--the dismal economy, the eroded civil liberties, the torture, the corruption and self-dealing, the official lies, a fractured Middle East and the bloodbaths of Iraq and Afghanistan. The rule of law has been laid at the feet of expediency and trampled to dust by the most abject of political cowards. I don't think our country will ever be the same, in that we won't even be able to maintain the illusion that everyone is equal before the law.
It will take a foolish trip to Europe by Cheney or Rumsfeld and some inspired Spanish judge to even make this seem like a possibility for which an enlightened and civilized people should strive.
January 9, 2009 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yay! This is a a great deal. Obama needs to get behind it. Without an investigation and criminal actions, there will be more unlawful actions in the future. Congress better use its subpoena power and it better bring lots of folks to the Hill to testify. Those who refuse commit crimes and need to be prosecuted.
January 9, 2009 8:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
A U.S. court gave a 97 year sentence today to a U.S. citizen for committing acts of torture overseas. Charles "Chuckie" Taylor is the son of the former Liberian President, Charles Taylor, who is himself in The Hague facing a "654-count indictment for war crimes and crimes against humanity."
It would be nice to believe that the U.S. justice system would hold other American citizens accountable for their acts of torture but I somehow don't think it will happen.
January 9, 2009 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah like Janet Reno when she burned kids to death when she ordered the firebombing of the Waco compound.
January 9, 2009 11:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ummm. Who is talking about Janet Reno here and why is it at all relevant?
January 10, 2009 3:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
The issue of the article is the Commission on War Powers and Civil liberties. Janet Reno's actions at Waco, Ruby Ridge, and the no warrant invasion (approved by AG-designate Holder) into the house of Elian Gonzalez's relatives are highly relevant if the Commission's mission is to investigate government officials' alleged violation of civil liberties. From the posts here, it seems like everyone just wants it to apply to President Bush.
As an aside, as liberals are recasting themselves as "progressives" and Obama campaigned on a platform of "change in the same politics in Washington," how does such a backwards-looking Commission square with being forward-looking or with his idea for change in Washington? In any event, if you want Congress to go the truth Commission route, as I've said before we'd better be prepared to bring Nancy Pelosi as an accessory.
Finally, I would add that having such a Commission adds a bad precedent for the country with each administration using it for political vanquishment of previous administrations.
January 10, 2009 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, perhaps if "previous administrations" do not commit war crimes and acts of treason... oh wait, you'd impeach 'em for blow jobs, anyway :-P
January 10, 2009 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice try, But the goof who approved torture and renditions, etc, is NOT Pelose, it is G. W. Bush, who still tries to defend his disgusting record. Perhaps, we need to put him under arrest and expose him to water-boarding and then let him decide if it is truly torture. The issue is not the Democratic Congress. Nice try, but the issue is the malfeasance of this administration particularly, the soon-to-be ex-President. Try as you might to change that subject, we are discussing the non-investigated most-probably felon, George, W. Bush!
January 11, 2009 2:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please try to live in the real world, jerks. THIS WILL NOT, REPEAT NOT, HAPPEN. The President-elect just had a nice lunch with the man you want indicted and incarcerated. There will be a few Congressional hearings, a la the Church Commission of 1975 on the CIA, a few Congressional Committee reports which will last one day in the news cycle, and that's it.
John Conyers is an idiot who likes to see his picture in the papers and on TV. Nobody in the leadership on the Hill takes him seriously. Trust me.
January 9, 2009 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep an eye on the documents. So I was just talking to friends about whether the new administration and congress were going to investigate and prosecute Bush Administration officials for war crimes. I said I thought that it was a long shot, but what they could do was to actually force the release of all the documents so that investigators and historians can investigate themselves. Hell, they donโt even have to force the release, all they have to do is prevent the agencies from fighting new Freedom of Information Acts requests. This will not be as good as a Congressional investigation, because independent investgators will not have subpoena power. But at least it will serve as a kind of privatized Truth Commission, and a chance for the facts to be revealed.
January 9, 2009 10:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see two problems with bringing war crimes charges against President Bush:
(1) Evidence. Sorry but just because we say so or the NY Times says so does not make it so. Any law student can explain it to you.
(2) Unfortunately, Nancy Pelosi would have to be brought up on charges, too as an accessory before the fact for waterboarding.
January 9, 2009 11:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hythloday
"Now is the time for all good men (& women ) to come to the aid of their country "
I agree with you Bushcheney were enabled to commit torture (waterboarding is torture ) and other war crimes by Democratic Leadership - Pelosi, Feinstein , and Harmon -in my opinion this is treason against Our Constitution. All of these criminal actors need to held to account, -
I do visit Political Castaways sometimes -you all have some relevant observations to make over there. Ron Paul is a conservative/liberterian to be respected - he to has called for accountabilty .Now its time we all be Americans and defend Our Constitution -maybe we should appoint Congressman Paul as co chair for any "Truth Commision "
And for the record I believe in all of our Constitution -especially the 2nd Amendment . And the ATF could have grabbed Koresh at anytime when he was jogging away from the Branch Davidians -and yes Dennis Weaver was set up by paid informants-
January 12, 2009 5:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
As unfortunate as it is, the repug war criminals will NEVER be held accountable for this...the fact is a great amount of the Democratic leadership was complicit in regards to these acts. You are fooling yourself if you think Pelosi/Reid were not briefed on torture policy. They didn't stand up then. Do you honestly think they are going to support any inquiry that exposes their role in this?
January 10, 2009 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I absolutely agree. See my post immediately above where Pelosi is patently complicit, if such an inquiry were to be made.
January 10, 2009 9:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am an American. War crimes were committed in my name. I want the entire world to know exactly what was done and who authorized and ordered it.
I'm very pleased to see my Rep's name (Delahunt) on the co-sponsor list.
Is your Rep's name on the co-sponsor list? Why not?
January 10, 2009 3:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
When the enormity of the lies of a regime is so great and the extent of its assault on the people so deep, including even the natural environment itself, yes, a Truth Commission is not simply a good idea but vital to begin to repair the damage to the Republic and the world. I don't think we fully realize just what we've been through quite yet, and it is going to take a Truth Commission to be able to see it.
January 10, 2009 6:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
$3 million doesn't sound like much a budget to me.
January 10, 2009 8:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Krusher,
You are exactly right about that. The Commission who investigated the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster operated with a $50 million budget. The 9/11 Commission (who was criticized for hasty work) had a budget of $11 million.
I've performed a fair number of investigations of this magnitude. $3 million wouldn't even begin to pay for what would be necessary.
The budget tells the whole story. The goal of this bill has nothing to do with finding the truth or accomplishing justice. It's just to make a splash and to get John Conyers's name in the press so that he can make a lot of noise about so-called war crimes. If he really wanted to accomplish something (assuming something could be accomplished), then he would have to write a very different bill.
Mr. Conyers, you talk about accountability, but then you propose this garbage bill? Shame on you, sir.
January 10, 2009 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
When someone robs a bank or commits a murder, do we set up a Truth And Reconciliation Commission? Or worse, do we say, "Oh, that's in the past. We need to put it behind us"? Hell no. We charge the malefactors with their crimes and hold them accountable.
What's different about this situation, and why does the political class merit different treatment for their crimes?
January 10, 2009 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I fantasize about Bush, Chenny, and the general officers being prosecuted for the actions of the outgoing administration. Talk about a landslide 24 months from now.
January 10, 2009 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
There was discussion last evening on the Rachel Maddow Show last evening speculating that if we do not clean up our own mess, the international community might do it themselves. Though I am not quite convinced of that, this issue will not simply go away. Though I am hopeful that the Obama administration will emphatically break from the policies of the current administration, we must do more than "turn the page." Transparency means accountability.
Yet with so many problems in front of us, I can't imagine a "Truth and Reconciliation Committee" being on the front burner at this time.
January 10, 2009 10:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
What would be the list of "actions" as renaye used the term above? Please cite to specific laws and how those laws have been interpreted in relevant precedent and exculpatory precedent as well. Thanks.
January 10, 2009 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
"So why does such a 'good' bill only have 10 co-sponsors?"
It's not a good bill. Only farleft moonbats are concerned about the "rights" of these sociopaths, who would if given a chance, gratuitously slaughter gays, "liberated" women, and atheists. It's hysterical to me that people who claim to be liberals and renounce hatred of gays, feminists and atheists seem to sympathize with the most hateful group of parasites any cult has produced.
The reason more congessmen do not want to jump on this bandwagon is because the election is over, and they no longer need to pander to bed wetting socialist traitors.
January 11, 2009 8:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you are on Facebook, join the group "Support H.R. 104 to Establish Commission on War Powers and Civil Liberties" http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=44163743542
January 11, 2009 9:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is not about to pursue the Bush Era Crimes even via a Truth and Reconciliation committee, let alone a vigorous prosecution effort: it might cost Obama a vote keeping him below 80% on his stimulus package in the Senate. Consensus is much more important to Obama than reality.
January 11, 2009 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
A friend of mine took Occam's Razor to the problem and came up with a most elegant solution
I wish I could claim credit
January 11, 2009 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
In spite of this quaint notion, generally speaking, one has to be convicted of a crime before he can be pardoned. A seemingly obvious fallacy throught this chain of comments is that just because you say Bush has committed war crimes does not make it so. That only works in totalitarian regimes. Again, I call for anyone to cite to specific evidence and corresponding laws that show President Bush committed war crimes. Also, please show how those laws have been interpreted in relevant precedent and provide any exculpatory precedent as well. At least that is how it works in court, but maybe not on liberal rags like this one.
January 11, 2009 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your suggestion is very powerful when thinking strategically in the political continuum. It would take everyone by surprise if Barrack found a way to do what you suggest. Me; I like it.
January 12, 2009 8:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, I doubt this will come to fruition.
and if so, it may result in the sort of 9/11 Commission's or Iran Contra's compromised findings that were chock full of 'truthiness'. Many of the crimes of the Reagan/Bush years weren't addressed during Clinton's administration either.
I think it is imperative that this happens on some level, for the sake of accountability, future deterrence, and the need to generate the political will (through public indignation) to overturn many of the unconstitutional laws and corrupt practices which were initiated during this administration.
I applaud Conyers for this and his previous repeated attempts to expose, admonish, and prosecute the administration's corruption. I just don't think it will occur given the host of problems facing the country. And that makes me sad.
January 11, 2009 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
This Sunday on CNN, Cheney already gave his testament, so we're beyond needing a commission which is intended to do nothing but help dick Cheney hide his criminal acts.
Cheney's torture acts should go straight to the DoJ for prosecution since we already know that he tortured. If indeed no one is above the law, how do we account for the fact that Cheney is telling the entire nation that he waterboard three people?
We don't need a commission, we need a prosecution at this point in time. If Obama doesn't want to do it, than someone from CIA should practice extraordinary rendition on Dick Cheney so that he can get an appointment before "The Hague".
John Conyers merely wants to help Dick Cheney and George Bush cover up their criminal acts of torture with a long, drawn out committee. We already know Dick Cheney is guilty of torture because Dick Cheney has already admitted he tortured on national TV, in fact just yesterday on CNN.
TMP is merely the flip-side of Glenn Reynolds, I mean, by all means, lets protect Obama from dealing with the truth, and help cover-up the that waterboarding that WAS done by the Bush Administration.
And Repugs just love to use the ticking-time-bomb scenario, so in the three occasion Dick Cheney used waterboard on three Mideastern individuals to "save lives", where was the BOMB?
Obama can't move beyond this with "no one is above the law" BS because at this point, if Cheney isn't prosecuted once Obama is in office, it's a lie, you know, just like that LIE Obama told everyone about that FISA Bill.
January 12, 2009 7:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
While I believe Cheney needs to be taken to court, people tend to leave off the MAIN MAN in this crime -- George W Bush. He could have started or stopped any of this. HE is the one to blame. He was the DECIDER as he so loved to call himself.
January 12, 2009 8:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
What if George Bush would have got up out of the chair when told about "the planes". And what if he would have got so pissed off , like this American was , and flew to Afghanistan with the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions. Land right in the middle of the country and basically tell Bin Laden; "you want me , you got me". Wouldn't that have put the ball back in the Bin Laden court with the quickness.
I know it's a lot to expect Presidential leadership like that out of George Bush , but I also think it's a lot to expect for a Commission to address these types of problems. Were're talking about lying and stealing and scheming at the highest level; and thousands upon thousands of people have died.
It's so serious that as the President I would have to find a way to redress the issue at the Presidential level and do it myself. I would think all the "new and unlimited powers" that the Executive now has , in the name of "whatever" , could then be considered in dealing with these types of illegalities. In my household the Bush administration and it's agenda was the highest threat to America.
So Obamas response to this issue will be a clear sign on how far he does want to go for the American people in his implied commitment to us. I personally can't see why what happened to the past President of Iraq shouldn't now happen to the current President of the United States; and for the very same reasons.
January 12, 2009 9:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, check out what the NYT reports Obama
said about it today:
Obama Signals His Reluctance to Look Into Bush Policies .
January 12, 2009 9:14 AM | Reply | Permalink