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Poll: Caroline Kennedy's Support Collapses

The last month's publicity hasn't been kind to Caroline Kennedy, with a new survey from Public Policy Polling (D) showing that she's now being trounced by state Atty. Gen. Andrew Cuomo as the choice of New York voters.

Cuomo now leads Kennedy 58%-27% as the one that voters would like to see Gov. David Paterson appoint to the Senate, with a 54%-34% spread among Democrats only. In last month's poll, which tested Democrats only, Kennedy had a 44%-23% lead. So a 21-point Caroline lead among Democrats has turned into a 20-point Cuomo advantage.

Ouch. If Paterson is in any way using the polls as a guide for who he should pick, this is not exactly good news for Caroline.


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Hmmm? I wonder how that happened?

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Kennedy is the Demo's Palin?

Initial buoyancy until reality sets in.

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What horsecrap.
Caroline has intelligence; her only similarity is her gender.
The media talking heads have been bashing Caroline non-stop for a minth, no big surprise that knee-jerk opinion would turn on her.

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Saying "you know" 80 times in a 5-minute interview doesn't help.

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Scooter's reply above mine covers most of it.

It is not an equation of alleged intelligence, it's an analogy between two players, one Repo the other Demo. Both were relative unknowns in national politics, both had some initial appeal, both didn't do well (to put it mildly) with in their subsequent appearances in MSM. The Repos felt Palin got a raw deal with MSM, now some Demos might feel that way re Kennedy.

"horsecrap" better describes your language and response, no offense.

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I totally agree with eds. Kennedy appealed to me a little bit at first until I saw the first press conference where she stumbled around and could come up with a single good reason why she was qualified to be in the Senate. The more she's talked in the last month the less qualified she seemed.

She might be smart, well educated and have connections, but being a Senator requires an aptitude for public speaking and being able to think on your feet. Her lack of political experience has become glaringly obvious.

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I today saw a clip of her stumbling through her "you knows" and immediately thought of Diane Keaton in the role.

It was the first time I'd seen Kennedy talking on camera like that. It was pretty bad.

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I totally agree with eds. Kennedy appealed to me a little bit at first until I saw the first press conference where she stumbled around and could not come up with a single good reason why she was qualified to be in the Senate. The more she's talked in the last month the less qualified she seemed.

She might be smart, well educated and have connections, but being a Senator requires an aptitude for public speaking and being able to think on your feet. Her lack of political experience has become glaringly obvious.

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i wonder if there has been a poll commissioned that asks the question "if governor paterson appointed someone to the senate that you did not like, would it affect your view of him? if so, how much?"

how much does gov. paterson need to gain from making such a pick? will people still remember his pick when he runs for reelection?

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"If Paterson is in any way using the polls as a guide for who he should pick, this is not exactly good news for Caroline."

If Paterson is in any way using the polls as a guide for who he should pick, then he is unworthy of the office he holds.

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An election is a poll: when an elected office is to be filled by appointment a poll is the best and only way to find out what the voters think.

If there is any place where making a political decision on the basis of a poll is appropriate this is it.

Caroline's popularity has gone down as voters have found out more about her: they prefer that their elected officials have taken the trouble to vote and do not feel unduly entitled.

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An election is a poll: when an elected office is to be filled by appointment a poll is the best and only way to find out what the voters think.

If there is any place where making a political decision on the basis of a poll is appropriate this is it.

Caroline's popularity has gone down as voters have found out more about her: they prefer that their elected officials have taken the trouble to vote and do not feel unduly entitled.

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"If Paterson is in any way using the polls as a guide for who he should pick, then he is unworthy of the office he holds."

If that quote is "in any way" reflective of your understanding of how things should or do work, you need to redirect your interests to a topic you can get a grasp of.


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Paterson should be making his decision based on who he thinks will do the best job as New York's next U.S. Senator, not based on polls, which are utterly unreliable snapshots of public opinion. Even when they are done well by reputable pollsters, they can be WAY off what voters actually think -- which you would know if you paid attention to election polling.

While elections are certainly polls, public opinion polls are not elections. If you can't understand that, then YOU need to redirect your interests to a topic you can get a grasp of.

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I guess you do not get it "in any way" do you?
That is why you had to clarify.

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So what are you saying, bonehead? That last week Kennedy would have been the right pick because the polls said so, but that this week she wouldn't because they've changed? Get a clue.

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You still do not get it. Calling me a bonehead will not prove you have any grasp of politics when you say a politician should not "in any way" be concerned with polls when it comes to making appointments to a high visibility political office. Which is why I suggest you do not "in any way" have any grasp of how politics works.

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So answer the question: Which polls were right in the case of Kennedy -- last week's or this week's?

A real leader leads; he/she doesn't make decisions based on which way the wind blows on a given day. And by the way, as a successful progressive political consultant (in terms of winning candidates) for the past two decades, I think that I just might have a grasp on how politics work -- and don't work.

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"In any way"

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Okay tedious child, go find somebody else to spout inanities at.

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Yeah. You're a successful progressive political consultant with 20 years experience. And I'm a fire-breathing dragon.

If you're a political consultant who thinks a governor shouldn't consult polls before making an appointment to a position that will be subject to a special election in one year...you aren't successful.

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Hey, believe what you want. But while I'm making it happen in the real world, the closest that armchair generals like you and ricky get is wanking on a comment thread.

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So...five posts today, just on this one blog. The real general decided to "wank" it in his armchair today, or what?

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The original polls were name recognition - she's a Kennedy! Caroline Kennedy was a blank slate. The polls today are a reflection of people getting over the hoopla to seriously assess 1. what's the experience that qualifies her for the role 2. is she really prepared to be senator.

She (and her handlers) have defined herself poorly in this whole non-campaign. She'd better hope Paterson picks her now anyway despite the resistence from NYers. You don't get a second chance to make a first impression and she's been enormously underwhelming.

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Hardly a surprise. I am not a New Yorker so I haven't paid all that much attention but intially was favorably disposed, now not.

If I were Paterson, I'd go with Cuomo

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Co-sign. She does not appear ready for prime time and appears to be doing this on a lark. It's a shame. Originally, I really, really liked her as well.

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how about neither? this state is lousy with democrats, can't we do better?

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I still want to know where they stand on all of the issues. That is what should decide who is a better choice.

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FUN FACT: Cuomo is married to RFK's daughter.

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Not anymore. And from what I understand, very ugly divorce.

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Here's the link for all the juicy gossip.....

http://www.mitchellmoss.com/mentions/03-07-09-washpost.html

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Excellent news. Cuomo, like his father, is neither likeable or easy to work with, but also like Mario he has the twin advantages of usually being the smartest person in the room and always being up for a repug beat-down.

Chuck Schumer is shitting his pants right now. Probably Harry Reid, too.

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It seems all the negative spin on her worked. She wasn't a good enough politician and didn't have in place a good strategist it seems to quell the frenzy that began once suspicion of her running surfaced.

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Like too many Dems, Caroline shot herself in the ass! I thought she'd be a great Senator, because of her background and money, she would be less influenced by Senatorial greed need and quest for power. Then who did she "hire" to guide her through the gauntlet, some of the worst political operatives around. She lost my confidence right there.

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fyi off topic...

CNN is showing the RNC chair debate.

Ironically, Chip can be heard faintly in the background humming Puff the Magic Dragon.

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I think Chip is singing the same tune but a different song. :)

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It seemed like at the end, Michael Steele was trying to avoid Chip. Chip was then left standing behind Steele while Steele shook hands and spoke to people in the audience. The tape cut off after that so I couldn't see anything else.

Blackwell shook hands with Chip, but then again, he thought people were being over sensitive regarding the CD Chip sent out.

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NY voters barely know Andrew Cuomo (and KY Yellow Dog is exactly right--he's tough to work with, and doesn't compensate for it with brilliance like his dad). And likewise, we barely know Caroline Kennedy. On top of all of this, I just don't think NYers are really that focused on any of this, nor do I think we really even care that much who our Senator is. The last serious Senate race in the state was when D'Amato lost, which was a big deal because so many of us hated him. But ever since Rudy dropped out, and a non-NYer somehow breezed into office as our Senator, it feels like we gave up on caring who really held the seat (so long as it was a 'D').

So anyway, my measly point: I don't think this or the other polls represents much in the way of real, informed opinion. And I don't think the majority of voters are motivated to get a real, informed opinion. And unfortunately, the only thing that would perhaps motivate (at least prime) voters to get one would be a contested primary, which this appointment may perhaps foreclose...

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NY voters barely know Andrew Cuomo...

Then shame on them for electing him to statewide office.

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The shift in opinion could have something to do with a NY Times article from a couple weeks ago that was very sympathetic to Cuomo. At the time, I was already irritated with the notion that Kennedy would swoop in and take the seat unearned, and after I read the article, irritation progressed to indignation. Cuomo came out looking like a hard worker who deserved a second look.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/20/nyregion/20cuomo.html?scp=6&sq=cuomo&st=cse

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Am I alone in thinking that the Kennedy sisters have seriously damaged their credibility in this state by being so widely associated with the renaming of the Triborough bridge to the RFK bridge? Everyone I've spoken to on the subject is absolutely furious about it, and it has nothing to do with sentimentality or animosity towards her uncle and everything to do with the fact that the renaming process cost about $4 million. Caroline was a very visible part of that process.

My primary objection to her candidacy stem primarily from a general disgust with the amount of nepotism that we have tolerated in this nation, but the fact that she and her sister pushed for such a wasteful and borderline hypocritical use of public funds (considering that her uncle would've probably rather seen the $4 million spent on, ya know, helping people) certainly doesn't help her case at all.

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This just proves it....Our National Attention Span is about 7 minutes. If you don't do anything to excite the public after that first 7 minutes, you're toast.

Caroline is toast.

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You're cracking me up here!

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So what?

What's really of interest here? One wealthy, priveleged person benefits at the expense of another in popularity polls that mean nothing.

Big deal.

Paterson could (and should IMHO)put an end to all the pointless and unproductive speculation by simply saying who it is he will pick. That will stop all this idiotic gossip because that is what it is and that is all it is.

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beedee - you must be younger than 40 if you don't know that Caroline Kennedy doesn't have any sisters - only a single brother who is now dead. If she worked on the re-naming of the bridge (are you sure it was her and not RFK's daughters?) - then it was only to help out her cousins get a memorial for their assasinated father RFK - which sounds fairly noble to me.

And Henrietta, as for the notion of her "swooping in and taking the seat unearned" - umm - isn't that exactly what Hillary did? What experience did Hillary have other than living in the White house?

If you guys are serious about objecting to "nepotism", then can't you come up with someone other than Cuomo, whose major accomplishment is being the son of yet another famous polititian?

If I had to pick between these two, I would definitely go with Busie's argument for Kennedy, for the simple reason that grubbing for money is the WORST cancer on our polititians, and Kennedy is immune to that cancer: "because of her background and money, she would be less influenced by Senatorial greed and quest for power"

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I think enough time has passed to give Spitzer another chance. And name the bridge for a truly famous New Yorker like George Steinbrenner.

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Yeah, I am under 40 and it was RFK's daughter who did the major push for the bridge. Caroline was very much a public face on the initiative, though. I watched her and Kerry doing interviews on NY1 the day it was unveiled. My point stands, though that the renaming costs have tarnished the Kennedy name in my neck of the woods (at least as short term memory goes). I was never pushing for Cuomo, btw, I'm way more in favor of Carolyn Maloney for the appointment.

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If everyone you know is "absolutely furious" about renaming the Tri-borough Bridge, or at least Caroline Kennedy's role in that effort, you need some new friends who reserve their anger over matters of a little more substantive nature.

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It's one thing for an unexperienced politician to be elected to office; the voters have a chance to evaluate that person's skills over the course of the campaign and make an informed decision. It's different when an unexperienced politician is appointed -- then voters have no chance to voice their disapproval.

Clinton and Cuomo were both elected. If Kennedy wanted to go that route, I'd be behind her all the way.

I would like to suggest that Paterson is obligated to consider public opinion polling on the issue of whom to appoint, since it's the only chance the voters will have to express their views on the matter. He is welcome to consider only the views of registered voters.

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"What experience did Hillary have other than living in the White House?"

Well, let's see now...

Immediately out of Yale Law Hillary became staff counsel for the Children's Defense Fund...

Then a year later she took down Richard Nixon, as part of the congressional legal committee that provoked his resignation...

Having finally agreed (after demurring several times) to marry Bill (and after joining the most prestigious AR law firm), founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families...

Was appointed by Jimmy Carter to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, which she later chaired, and for which she successfully defeated *Ronald Reagan's* attempts to cut funding...

Chaired the Rural Health Advisory Committee where she expanded access to health care without affecting doctors' fees...

Chaired the Arkansas Education Standards Committee, where she established mandatory teacher testing and standards for curriculum and class sizes...

Chaired the New World Foundation...

Chaired the American Bar Association's Commission on Women in the Profession...

Served on boards for the Arkansas Children's Hospital Legal Services, Children's Defense Fund, TCBY, Wal-Mart, and Lefarge...

Chaired the Task Force on National Health Care Reform, ultimately producing a health care plan which was favored in a gallop poll by more than 70% of Americans...as long as it was not identified as the Clinton Health Care Plan, in which case it was opposed by more than 70% of Americans, having been primed by the biggest out-of-election-year political ad expenditure ever...

Advocated the State Children's Health Insurance Program, and conducted outreach to enroll parents/children once the program was passed...

Gave the Chinese the finger when they asked her to "soften" her remarks (such as "it is no longer acceptable to discuss women's rights as separate from human rights") at the Fourth World Conference on Women's Rights in Beijing...

Helped found Vital Voices, an international Women's suffrage advocacy group...

Chaired the Saving America's Treasures program and the White House Millennium Program...

...and visited every county in New York on a "listening tour" after which she debuted several popular policy initiatives which she said amounted to 200,000 new jobs and promised to be a strong and effective advocate for the issues that matter to New Yorkers, which is what New Yorkers needed and wanted in a Senator.

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In other words, don't be an asshole and act like pre-Senate Hillary was "just a first lady." She has been a total badass her whole life, and pigeonholing her like that is despicable. Bill campaigned on the "two for the price of one" power she brought to the table. Her resume was way thicker than Obama's when he ran for Senate, and many of us thought it was thicker when they ran for President. Which is why a guy like me supported her in the primaries...of course, at that point it was hard to see the superiority of Obama's ground game, which will pay dividends to Democrats for decades and which turned guys like me around in one canvassing stint. But that's neither here nor there; the point is that Hillary by 2000 was more than qualified for any public office up to and including President. So don't be a dick.

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Gee, you should become a fiction writer. You are really good at writing fiction. She didn't do squat and swooped into NY to take the seat based on Mr. Bill's coattails and she didn't squat in the senate after she got the gift. Except give the king a rubber stamp on invading a country and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent iraqis and thousands of americans. Ah, but she won't take credit for that one, will she.

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Cite one thing from my post that's "fiction."

And yes, you *are* being a dick.

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By the way, yeah I'm being a dick, because I am sick and tired of this rewriting of history nonsense about the clintons. By way of example, the clintons originally opposed schip and then took credit for it when they saw that it was going to get passed over his veto. Give me a gd break. She wasn't a "bad ass" she was a gd whimp in the senate and didn't squat before hand and since. Keep spinning like a top.

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If the poll had shown voters favoring Carolyn Maloney or some other hard-working public servant, then maybe it would deserve some attention. But to prefer Andrew Cuomo to *anyone* (street sweepers included!!) shows that it's just a game of name -recognition and gossip columns squared. He got the benefit of the doubt from voters because of his brilliant and deservedly respected father, but his conduct in office has confirmed - or deepened - every bad rumor about unseemly tactics, ethics, etc. there were in his former positions with HUD and in private sector.

He will run over or stab in the back anyone who happens to get in the way of the two most important things in the world: his own perceived importance and his pocket book. I can see feeling that perhaps Caroline Kennedy has to thin a resume, but if you thing A.C. would be better than her, then you don't know how he's been running his office. Unfortunately, I'm not at liberty to provide details about some of his techniques that I've personally witnessed. Someday, however, the "fit will hit the shan" and no one will consider him a hard worker who deserves a second look, no matter what the NYT says.

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It seems like Caroline thought that simply "deciding" whether she wanted to do this or not was enough. That all she needed to do was come out of the shadows and the seat would be hers. Without any real preparation on the issues.

She should run in 2010, and spend the next year preparing. She is certainly capable of rising above what has been a PR nightmare for her.

I'd like to see a real contest for this seat. In the mean time, Gillibrand sounds like a compelling choice for the appointment.

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It seems like Caroline thought that simply "deciding" whether she wanted to do this or not was enough. That all she needed to do was come out of the shadows and the seat would be hers. Without any real preparation on the issues.

She should run in 2010, and spend the next year preparing. She is certainly capable of rising above what has been a PR nightmare for her.

I'd like to see a real contest for this seat. In the mean time, Gillibrand sounds like a compelling choice for the appointment.

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Er ....... not according to her constituents. Sorry, Charlie. (And there's nepotism at work in her ascendancy to power also, just for the record.)

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Speaking of nepotism, isn't Cuomo also riding on his father's coat tails??

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Bingo!

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JeffGuy--

On your last point, that Kennedy's wealth makes her "less influenced by Senatorial greed and quest for power," that was John Connally's defense to the charge that he had accepted bribes from the Associated Milk Producers: as his lawyer pointed out, someone who had gold doorknobs in his home would not scrounge for a measly $10,000. While a jury may have bought that defense (he had plenty of others), I don't like its implications, whether Kennedy has gold doorknobs or not.

And frankly that argument doesn't really work in the real world. Having lots of money does not exempt you from having to raise much, much more if and when you decide to run for office (unless you want to use your own--ask HRC how that worked out).

Nor does being rich make your judgment on issues that count that much better--for which we can cite Steve Forbes, Mitt Romney, Silvio Berlusconi, Ronald Lauder, as just a few of the candidates who seem to be primarily interested in running to benefit themselves and their class.

Kennedy does not appear to be like them on that score--but her wealth has also served as a cocoon that makes her just as unsuitable, unlike her father or FDR or other wealthy politicians who actually ran for office and developed a record.

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If the point is that public servants should be selected on their merits, rather than their family connections, having Cuomo lead in the polls is isn't much of an improvement. (And yes, I know Cuomo was elected as the state's attorney general, and served as HUD Secretary in Bill Clinton's second term).

How about Jerrold Nadler? Or Carolyn Maloney? I'd mention Nita Lowey also, but she apparently has made it clear she wouldn't want to give up her seniority in the House to move to the Senate.

I have no problem with either Kennedy or Cuomo running for the seat in 2010, and if the voters select them, that's fine. But I don't think either should be appointed - doing so would add an advantage of incumbency to their strong name recognition brands.

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Hear, hear! Appointments should be made on judgment, skills and merit...not "who's your daddy?".

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I was in Buffalo for the holidays. Talk radio has been very critical of her. She made a bunch of rookie mistakes (driving a Toyoto, her choice of people to meet with...) on her visit to the city. For example, a few are listed here:

http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/story/526356.html

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Wanting to represent Buffalo would be a rookie mistake in my view, but I guess it comes with the state.

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I personally think she is more than qualified. She is brilliant, she has been around people in politics all of her life, and she has interviewed dignitaries around the world. I find that to be a damned sight better than some councilman or alderman with " experience".

If the people don't like her when her term is up, they will say so. I say let the woman have at it. I personally think she will do a sensational job at the position

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Paterson sure is taking his time...

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Hillary's not out of the Senate yet, is she?

What if she suddenly has to "pull a Richardson" and keep her "day job"?

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Right now I kind of default to Kennedy -- all of the other suggested names have substantial experience in playing to the myriad micro-constituencies that dominate the New York political infrastructure: feminist groups, labor unions, Hispanics, African Americans, Catholics, upstaters, downstaters, urbanites, suburbanites, among a host of other distinct special interest "constituencies". The alternative to the laundry list of narrowcasting politics as usual in New York– would actually be Kennedy. She is not a slick, canned, career politician. And just after the country elected a president who disavowed compartmentalizing interests and ideologies, a Kennedy appointment would, ironically signal a shift away from crass, purely political expediency which is embedded in New York politics and government. David Paterson succeeded to the governor slot by deign of scandal – and in short order has defied expectations and shown strong leadership in exigent times – leadership that might not have been readily apparent when he served as State Senator. Perhaps Kennedy, -- who at least seems to be a somewhat sober, serious, and learned individual who lacks overt charisma and slickness, is maybe just who we need to represent New York's interests in the US Senate in this time of crisis and challenge. She s certainly wired to Obama -- and that can't hurt New York.

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As a New Yorker, right now I default to Kennedy -- all of the others metioned have substantial experience in playing to the myriad micro-constituencies that dominate the New York political infrastructure: feminist groups, labor unions, Hispanics, African Americans, Catholics, upstaters, downstaters, urbanites, suburbanites, among a host of other distinct special interest "constituencies". The alternative to the laundry list of narrowcasting politics as usual in New York– would actually be Kennedy. She is not a slick, canned, career politician. And just after the country elected a president who disavowed compartmentalizing interests and ideologies, a Kennedy appointment would, ironically signal a shift away from crass, purely political expediency which is embedded in New York politics and government. David Paterson succeeded to the governor slot by deign of scandal – and in short order has defied expectations and shown strong leadership in exigent times – leadership that might not have been readily apparent when he served as State Senator. Perhaps Kennedy, -- who at least seems to be a somewhat sober, serious, and learned individual who lacks overt charisma and slickness, is maybe just who we need to represent New York's interests in the US Senate in this time of crisis and challenge. She s certainly wired to Obama -- and that can't hurt New York.

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