Franken Gets Big Win At Canvass Board
Al Franken's chances of winning the Minnesota recount may have just gone up astronomically.
The state canvassing board just voted unanimously that absentee ballots that were initially rejected because of clerical errors -- and the current estimate from the hearing is that there could be nearly 1,600 of them, based on some extrapolation -- should be counted, probably the single biggest issue that the Franken campaign has been hammering ever since this recount began, and which really seemed up in the air going into this hearing.
The board can't directly order the county officials to do the counting, only making a formal request to go back and count the votes and then submit amended totals. But many counties have already begun or finished the process of sorting the rejected absentees at the board's request, and board members did castigate any election officials who wouldn't do so, with some of them even leaving open the option of seeking a court order if necessary.
Because of all that, it seems very likely that the vast majority of these ballots will be counted before this is over -- and it could possibly seal the deal for Franken. Pre-election polling showed him winning the overall pool of absentee ballots by a solid margin, so it seems pretty reasonable to assume that the newly-counted votes will break for Al. If that proves to be correct -- and if Norm Coleman is unable to stop it through further litigation -- Franken will probably pull ahead of Coleman and win the election.
Late Update: Just to clarify, this was a separate question from the missing Minneapolis ballots, which they ruled on earlier and we posted on below. The board took on two crucial issues this morning, and on both of them ruled in favor of the Franken camp's position.















... at which point Norm Coleman will lawyer up and drag the whole thing into the messiest court case since Bush v Gore. I am happy that Franken's team won this round, but I doubt that we will achieve an actual resolution to the overall mess anytime soon, no matter how the new vote count ends up.
December 12, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
True, but whoever is ahead at the end of this phase has the momentum. If Al can get the media to start reproting he's ahead at the end of the recount, I think that will mean something. So far practically every media outlet still has Coleman ahead.
An important factor in these two decisions so far to me is that they have been unanimous in front of a canvasssing board that has both democrats, republicans and independents.
December 12, 2008 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Coincidentally, today marks the anniversary of the Supreme Court's horrific Gore vs Bush decision in 2000. One of the darkest days in US judicial history.
December 12, 2008 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sometime in the future, we should add this infamous "Gore V. Bush" memorial date to the ones we already have so unofficially but systemically appointed to our cultural calendar.
9-11 and Pearl Harbor Day come to mind...
December 13, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are right about Coleman dragging it into court. He has sued the opponent in every election he has been in. But, we've seen that trick before from the Supremes. And as the great foolosopher would say, "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, I can't get fooled again!"
December 12, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
So what! Again so what! Lawyers are not super heros.
The basic situation in FL versus MN is that ultimately the Senate holds the power to accept whom they want.
Ultimately State Courts are the venue of this and they rule in the favor of voters will, for State Courts are connected to voters, the SCOTUS is not....and when they screwed up and stopped the count to determine the voters will everyone knew it because how the Bush Adm has used urgency and fear all along from Iraq to Patriot Act to Bail Out it is always a rush and fear....
There is no rush here....no fear....(well maybe from Coleman and the GOP knowing that Al and the Dem's will have 59 and no Norm).
By including Franken here is some math. In CO Springs the red zone of red zone's Obama and Dem's got 60% of their entire vote via absentee or MIB's. If 55% that would mean a 880 to 720 difference and a 160 vote pick up.
That does not include the loss of 137 ballots or the finding of others. It appears that if the challenges work out as they are....Franken will win a close race between 100-200 vote difference.
Coleman can delay the inevitable but the Senate will let this work out and then declare Franken accepted regardless all the lawyers on the clock.
December 12, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you in the broad strokes. I expect that the guy with the most votes (whoever that is, and I would not pretend to know right now) will win this in the long run.
December 12, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will. Franken has this. The check and mate was today. The Franken campaign's projection (the most accurate one) was +4 with the missing Minneapolis ballots but without the rejected absentees excluded. Throw the rejected absentees in and it gets pushed well beyond any reasonable margin of error from the Franken camp's estimations. We got this one. Count it.
December 12, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which demonstrates the point, if Kerry and Gore had been willing to fight all the disenfranchisement (probably didn't spell that right)we probably wouldn't have half the country looking for a bailout.
December 12, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I TOTALLY agree. I am still amazed that Gore and the Dems rolled over and played dead when it was soooo obvious that the election was being stolen. There was no damn rush in 2000 to get it over with as the swearing in was still over a month away.
Counting ALL the votes in a democracy is ALWAYS the bottom line! How on Earth did Gore not get some balls and get mad and say: I HAD MORE VOTES!
December 12, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's the libruhl "nice guy" syndrome. As Senator Boxer said, elections have consequences, and so does sweetly turning over the country to the guy who lost.
December 12, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again in law, when you have the law and the evidence you hold to the evidence and argue the law.
When you don't have the law and evidence you delay, disrupt, discredit and disorganize and create all forms of dissing.....
There will be a conclusion and the spirit and the law is about enfranchising votes not disenfranchising them....and it is clear that the two decisions were about that....mistakes by those who are administrators do not ultimately disenfranchise the right of the voter....thus losing an envelope that was there (even if someone took the opportunity to misplace it in the Mississippi River) or Waste Mgmt's recycling center if there was proof it was there and they had originally counted those 133 votes----the law is to count them.....that is why you have sign off after sign offs....
As for the administration mistakes they are mistakes and again disenfranchising the voter through no fault of their own.....
Now if in the end Franken indeed prevails by a couple hundred and a flip of 400-500 votes than that is the result. Coleman can scream all he wants but in the end even if it is 200-300 votes in his favor after a recount it is what it is....and no lawyer group will be able to turn 58 Senators against that.
December 12, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm working hard to emulate our President-elect, and to view Republicans as colleagues, but right now, I'm just not there yet, so here's hoping Norm Coleman goes down, hard, and the Republicans pay the price for their pigheaded obstruction for generations to come.
December 12, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Amen!
December 12, 2008 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Never, ever view Slimy Norman as a "colleague" for any reason. His only interest is himself. He was a DFL'er of convenience, now he is a Republican of convenience, and if things change deeply enough in some other direction, he'll be following along quickly enough.
December 12, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looking at them as potential colleagues didn't stop Barack from vigorously campaigning against them, either, so no worries there.
December 12, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just consider Republicans to be our colleagues who are high on PCP and and waiting for us to turn our backs so they can stab us.
That's what the Senate Republicans demonstrated when they killed the bridge loan to try to keep GM operating through the end of the year. Conservatives carefully watch their enemies for weakness, and when Democrats or Labor or anyone they consider at the moment to be "Liberals" need support they are always there with their knives out.
You've worked with or around colleagues like that before, haven't you? I have.
December 12, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, I have worked with "colleagues" like this.
The Republicans just said goodbye to the Midwest with this vote. What do they have left, at this point? The Dixie states, and, um, Nebraska?
Good luck with that.
But they sure stuck it to the unions, didn't they? At least they can have that consoling them.
December 12, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is very telling of the real Republican character that they are willing to shove hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people out of work at this horrible moment just to stab a knife in the UAW.
What the hell makes these assholes happy??? They seem to want only a small group of super rich assholes like themselves and millions and millions of poor and desperate folks willing to work for peanuts.
I despise the Republican version of America. Thank goodness Obama won, I think I would honestly be headed for the Canadian border if we had lost this one.
December 12, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Read Kearns book (Team of Rivals) through the looking glass of today.
Not that all things line up perfectly but understand that the Republicans are falling in the trap of the WHIG party in reverse.
The Republicans don't have a moral or pragmatic compass and merely power. Falling into the Land of Dixie and the Great Plains is safe but it is a place of the past and the world and US is moving into the 21st Century.
The Unions are not the problem and must be part of a solution. GM and auto must move to the future....yes but they are not going to do this being shut down. The bottom line is Tenn, KY and Ala are sold out to the Japanese and Germans of all people. Ask yourself how much patriotism they really have.
December 12, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why don't the Dems make the case that the fascist party is shutting down the AMERICAN auto industry in favor of the FOREIGN auto comanies??? It usually works for swaying the masses to make it an argument in favor of apple pie and Chevrolet. I know if it was to their benefit the fascist party would be wrapped in the flag like it was their own skin.
December 12, 2008 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because Reid and Pelosi are wusses.
December 12, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
These publicans at my work (both of them Ha) keep statin and repeatin everytime I try to talk sense with them they say, NAFTA,GATT,SAFTA,CAFTA, then they jump into Freddiemac,fanniemae, and salliemae and start mocking me but i told them, that was 20 years ago surely you can hold a better argument than that. I told them those were all publican ideas we may have signed them, but they put them into bills and paperwork. They're idiots.
December 12, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, they're losing parts of Dixie--Virginia (home of Robert E. Lee) and NC.
December 12, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is there a better way to run an election?
December 12, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why? What's wrong with this way?
December 12, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some people just don't see the joy, excitement and pleasure inherent in uncertain and ambiguous election outcomes.
December 12, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's please look at this as a 'teaching moment' when we reaffirm our commitment to counting each and every vote fairly and accurately.
I am hugely proud of MN as they seem to be doing just that!
December 12, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder how hard the GOP is getting involved, as they might be willing to see Coleman go down to keep his scandal off the front page, especially now that Chambliss won keeping the Dems from the boogeyman 60 seats and desperately trying to tie Blagojevic to Obama and Dems in general.
December 12, 2008 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
All right!
December 12, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
You go Al! BTW, I loved the video released on youtube this week. How does Coleman defend disenfranchising voters?
December 12, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
IOKIYAR. 'Nuff said. Move along, now, show's over. Nothin' to see here...
December 12, 2008 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
That video was great. They should put it on TV to really get the point across.
And Coleman called it a "new low". Funny. Letting eligible voters explain how they did everything right and still got their absentee ballots rejected for no valid reason whatsoever. That's a "new low".
No, Norm. You don't know low. You need a ladder just to get up to where you can see low with binoculars. Slimy scumbag.
December 12, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ramsey County includes St. Paul. It's one of the most Democratic counties in the state.
Ramsey County Elections Manager Joe Mansky is refusing to sort the Rejected Absentee Ballots.
The Canvassing Board decided this morning that they can't order him to.
I hope that someone gets a court order for Ramsey County to sort those ballots.
December 12, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
What is his reason for that?
Also, what kinds of clerical errors are we talking about that led to those ballots not being counted in the first place?
December 12, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joe Mansky said that he doesn't want to get between the two parties and therefore only courts should review the Rejected Absentee Ballots.
Is he sincere?
Is he a Republican obstructing to try to help Norm Coleman?
Is he so egotistical that he wants to prove that the Secretary of State's office can't make him do something?
I don't know his motivation.
December 12, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Finally. Now maybe in 50 years simply counting every vote cast by a citizen won't be such an easily manipulated ass-backwards process. Maybe democracy will get back its original definition.
December 12, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno if it's good or not. I think overall it's helpful, but it's not going to be good for Franken or bad for him. The issue is whether the board can force the counties to count the ballots. They cannot. Franken might have some leverage in court with this ruling, but that's about it.
December 12, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anybody get the feeling that Franken and his team learned a lot from the 2000 recount? They have clearly been the aggressor, keeping Franken on defense. They have dominated the spin war. And if you think that doesn't matter, just ask Al Gore.
December 12, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean Coleman on the defense? And yes, definitely. Franken has played this very tough and smart, and it looks like it's gonna pay off.
December 12, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ooops! Yeah, I mean they've kept Coleman on defense. Most Democrats are way too laid back. They often take a "this will all work out in the end" attitude. Thank goodness Franken didn't give an inch on anything and left no stone unturned. He played hardball like a Republican!
December 12, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I lived in New Orleans for a couple of years, and it came as a real shock to me that people in New Orleans do not believe in government systems. They firmly believe that nothing gets done unless you know someone and have a personal relationship with the person doing the job, even something as seemingly bureaucratic as issuing a marriage or driver's license. [Not true of everyone, but it is a prevailing rule. Try getting a road fixed without getting a politician to do you a favor.]
I realized at that point that as a Democrat I really did believe that government was a bureaucratic system and that I had the right to expect it to perform certain functions for me if that was in its charter.
No one has any right to win a close election. Vote counting is an art, not a science. Any close election is ultimately determined as the result of a set of counting errors. When the election gets close, the winner is probably going to be the side that wants it more, feels the need to win personally, and fights the hardest. Too many idealists feel that fighting bit is somehow degrading. Nope. That's democracy.
December 12, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is anyone else finding that TPM is crashing their web browsers a lot lately? I am using Firefox 3.0.4 and I find that there are all sorts of threads that I just cannot open of late because they cause my browser to crash.
December 12, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I had to give up on Firefox about a month ago. Things crashed, headlines appeared with letters superimposed on one another, and gmail was virtually unusable. Sad, because I really liked it.
December 12, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Try Seamonkey. The Lockheed systems people in Fort Worth are said to prefer it to Firefox.
December 12, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Same browser, same version, no trouble here from TPM. A few other bits of oddness from other sources, not that that's anything terribly strange.
December 12, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I had + zoom set and this site was strange until i reset it.
December 12, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Reverted to 3.0 a couple days ago because of random crashes after ~1-2 minutes. I think 3.0.4 is buggy.
December 12, 2008 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Could be the ads are using up too much processing time. Check Windows Task Manager (ctrl alt del) under Processes and find firefox.exe.
I have complained twice to Josh Marshall about how my reasonably fast computer ends up at over 90% time devoted to running some TPM pages, even after loaded.
It's the ads.
December 12, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
pssst...Adblock No ads at all.
December 12, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Still waiting for an answer. Does anyone know?
December 12, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joe Mansky said that he doesn't want to get between the two parties and only courts should review Rejected Absentee Ballots.
December 12, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is that credible? I mean, what is his political persuasion and more importantly, if he takes the position that he is resisting being "forced" to sort and count them, isn't that obstruction of justice if in a vague way? As someone else noted, he should be "willing" to sort and count, and then let the Canvassing Board decide what to do with the results.
Something fishy there.
December 12, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mansky is following instructions from the Ramsey County Attorney's office. Their position is that the canvassing board does not have authority to compel local jurisdictions to review rejected absentee ballots (which is also, apparently, the position of the canvass board). Early on in the recount Mansky was challenging the challengers' challenges, apparently in an attempt to reduce frivolous challenges. The county attorney told him to stop, and I'm guessing they've adopted a general hands-off approach in anticipation of an eventual state court contest. That would/will be venued in Ramsey County District Court. That court *probably* would have jurisdiction to compel production of the allegedly wrongfully rejected absentee ballots for its review. If some but not all counties produce those ballots to the canvass board and the board counts those it has in hand (or counts none of them), the loser will most likely go to court and insist they all be counted.
The ultimate issue is the same for the canvass board or the court: which candidate received the most lawfully cast ballots?
December 12, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
During a recount, counties should be willing to review their work without being forced.
December 12, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
The losing side will always object publicly if they have any good sense. Such reviews can mean the elections administrator is manipulating the vote count.
December 12, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great news for Al.
John
December 12, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
God, I would love to see Al win this. I think he would be a great Senator (and one with a great sense of humor).
That said, it will not prevent the Republicans from obstructing for the next 4 years. I wish the Dems had emphasized to the voters just how vital & essential it was to get a super-majority in the Senate.
December 12, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Personally, I'm not that much of a Franken backer. My hope for his victory is based on personal experience of Slimy Norman, and bolstered by Quimby's well-deserved reputation as a philanderer and a number of rumblings that he's a wife-beater. He's as repugnant as anyone in electoral politics, and that includes Illinois Governor Spellcheck.
December 12, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm a huge backer of Al. At a time when Dems were pussies, were afraid of the "liberal" tag, and were rolling over for Bush left and right, Al was willing to stand up loud, vocally and not back down at all. Sure, he used comedy to do a great deal of it. But he also used a lot of anger that so many of us were feeling, along with frustration that people were buying the bullshit the Repubs & Cons were spewing.
If you put him in the Senate, we're guaranteed of a Senator who isn't going to be a pussy to the Republicans... and who will be willing to call out his own party when they're rolling over. Given his ease on camera, he makes for a good addition to progressive talkers at a time when they don't get enough run on the tube.
John
December 12, 2008 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Calling out his own party? I know you are not talking about Stuart Smuley. He will be a good little senator and do whatever Reid tells him to do. When he was on the the now bankrupt Air America, he received his show material from the Democratic talking points. He is as big a jerk on the left as Hannity is on the right. Al Franken makes MN look like what it really is; too cold, out of touch and filled with mutants.
December 12, 2008 10:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
This gives cover for the Senate to seat Franken if this pushes Franken over the top, no matter any legal challenges that Coleman would then file.
December 12, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
"and board members did castigate any election officials who wouldn't do so, with some of them even leaving open the option of seeking a court order if necessary."
totally inaccurate reporting. The board members were quite explicit in recognizing they had no statutory authority to order county election officials to either review the rejected absentee ballots or to submit amended county totals based upon adding improperly rejected absentee ballots to the count. They did however request that both be done and said this was a county decision. They also opined that regardless of what local officials decided, that the campaigns could contest it in court if they so chose. There was nothing said to suggest that the state canvassing board would seek a court order over anything the counties might decide in this regard.
I do not expect there will be very many county election officials unwilling to inspect rejected absentee ballots, count the ones that were rejected due to election worker error and resubmit an amended and more accurate count of their voters (many of whom paid property taxes on Nov 15th, and therefore their salaries as well!) I think the counties that haven't yet were waiting to get a signal from the state canvassing board before taking on a potentially unnecessary task.
Most (if we are lucky, all) of the rejected absentee ballots are going to be re-examined and those that were improperly rejected will be counted and submitted to the state canvassing board. Stay tuned.
December 12, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I stand by my original position: If the Senate seats Al Franken, then in fairness they also have to seat Ann Coulter.
December 12, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I called Norm to find out how he had voted on the auto bailout and, despite the Ford plant in St. Paul, he had voted against cloture.
Gave him a piece of my mind.
Now, with the latest news from the Canvassing Board, I am consoling myself by imagining Norm on the unemployment line and having to run from angry newly unemployed auto workers.
December 12, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Give the guy a break, Norm is against bailouts and giveaways of any kind. Except free suits. There's nothing wrong with free suits. And of there's nothing wrong with free rent either.
Heck, the only reason he needs these things is so he can more effectively fight liberal freeloaders like union activists and voters. Honestly, Norm haters make me sick, the way you think the world owes you a living just because you work for it.
December 12, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the beginning I thought Franken's candidacy was a joke and couldn't see him as anything but a comedian whose brand of humor never had appealed to me. But now, I have the utmost respect for him and admiration for his fighting power.
Most candidates, especially Democrats, would have thrown in the towel and let what seems to be voter suppression have its way. Franken has fought to have every vote counted and will continue to do so, I believe, until the final ballot is included.
December 12, 2008 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad you've come around, but Franken is a lot more than a comedian. He has three very successful books of political satire under his belt. As far as credentials, he got his B.A. from Harvard. He sure as hell wasn't a legacy admission, so you know he's smart. And he has an Emmy, for what that's worth.
December 12, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Al Franken's chances of winning the Minnesota recount may have just gone up astronomically
Well, given how absurdly razor thin the margins are in this race, I don't think "astronomical" is really in it. But a huge huzzay! to Franken for fighting this thing out to the last vote. Coleman is an asshole, and a corrupt one to boot.
December 12, 2008 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, it's offcial: The Coleman campaign is asking that the counting of rejected absentee ballots be halted until a standard procedure is established.
By MARK BRUNSWICK, PAUL WALSH and BOB VON STERNBERG, Star Tribune Staff Writers
The campaign of Sen. Norm Coleman is taking its case to the state Supreme Court, asking the justices to order counties to follow a standard procedure in identifying wrongfully rejected absentee ballots. It is asking county officials to halt any counting of rejected absentee ballots from the U.S. Senate election until the justices can rule on the campaign's request.
The campaign said that it feared what it called a chaotic "Florida situation" and that it is likely to go to the court today.
So remind me again, who was it that created the "chaos" in Florida. From the November 28, 2000 Salon:
Miami protest was carried out by rent-a-rioters flown in by the Republican Party. GOP spokespeople have said that at least 750 Republican activists have been sent into South Florida from around the country to oppose the recount, with the party picking up the tab for a number of them. And last Wednesday, when a gaggle of protesters sprang into action in Miami, those efforts seem to have paid off.
The halt of the Miami-Dade County hand count, where 10,750 ballots remain uncounted -- more than enough to flip the outcome of the Florida election or further buttress George W. Bush's lead in the state -- dealt a devastating blow to Al Gore's presidential campaign.
http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/28/miami/
December 12, 2008 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think people forget that all of the votes were counted in the 2000 election multiple times. It was the hand-counting of votes that had no perceptible indication that the voter chose either candidate that were being counted as "Gore" votes that the Supreme Court ultimately stopped. They wanted to stop an election from being overturned by fraud and did so.
Ultimately, the press recounted all of the votes in the disputed Florida election and came to the same conclusion that Bush did in effect win Florida and the US election.
The same type of fraud is happening in Minnesota now. Ballots are being found all over the place that seem to be disproportionately going to Franken. This stinks of voter fraud and the rigging of an election. Mail-in ballots should be counted but only if they are valid and arrived by the deadline. This appears to be a case where one party will want to count and count until their candidate somehow wins even if it is by fraud. If the votes ever show Franken ahead -- any calls for additional counting or checking for voter fraud will immediately end and the media will report that any such attempt at changing the results would be stealing the election.
December 12, 2008 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Delta .
The 2000 recount of the district including West Palm (home of the butterfly ballot)was never reflected in the final official count. The Supervisor gave the counters the day off on Thanksgiving. They then weren't able to complete the count by the deadline the Secretary of State had set.
The Supervisor asked Harris for a few more hours to complete. She said no.
Therefore those votes weren't counted.The result was announced to the press, but not included in the official results which showed Bush with a lead of something like 550 votes.
If you disagree I'd be curious on what grounds.
If you agree then your statement that all votes were counted is wrong.
I haven't clouded the issue by discussing what the effect would have been of including those West Palm votes. Just dealing with the question of whether all votes were counted.
Any comment?
December 12, 2008 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
While those votes are being tallied why not have Acorn or some other groups ie. Comedy Central to start now filling out ballots for Franken and after all these (1600) are counted if he hasn't won, he can tell someone where the other votes are and possibly win. Actually, he could keep having this done until the odds are in his favour. This happened once before in history there is no reason it cannot happen again. Franken needs to commit himself to winning and quit talking about losing the election. Win no matter what the cost! That should be his motto.
Just think how great it will be to finally have captured the senate,house,congress,presidency and every decision and action will be that of the Democrats. We will balance the budget in 2 years or so, get a great energy source for the autos,solar power etc..,and after all the great things are accomplished like leaving the middle east and bringing in peace in the middle east, there will be no doubt who is really for America, we will be victorious and will no longer be a scapegoat for the publicans. They won't be able to blame our party for deficits and all the corruption they do.
December 12, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Neo-Repugnants make me sick. There is only one answer, they are evil and must be destroyed.
December 12, 2008 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
All this talk about what the Florida outcome could have been due to the 2000 election fiasco.
I find it interesting that prior to and up to the final outcome of the 2000 election nationally, the Repugnants were raising hell and wanting to abolish the electoral college. Only when the electoral college elected the Bushwacker, due to a couple of questionable states (ie Florida), did the Bible thumpers drop the issue. Hmm. The Repubs are like a cancer, they must be erradicated.
December 12, 2008 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know thumpers,they thump.
December 12, 2008 10:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope AlFranken wins. It will continue to bolster the image of Minnesotans as ignorant rubes. How could any state elect this jerk*ff. What a bunch a clowns you are. Maybe you should bring back Jesse Venture, yah hey dere!
I hope this jerk helps the Demos push a carbon tax down the throats of the idiots in MN. Maybe having their money stolen from them to support an Al Gore hoax will cause them to wake up. Although, I doubt it. Minnesota - what a joke!
Heil Obama! Seig Heil! Heil Obama! Seig Heil!
December 12, 2008 10:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, it certainly is hard to argue with logic like that. At first I resisted you calling us "clowns," but when you hit me with those "Heil Obama's" I was swayed to your argument. I wish I lived in a state with people as smart as you.
December 13, 2008 12:33 AM | Reply | Permalink