Election Central Morning Roundup
Crucial Hearing In Minnesota Senate Race Today
The state canvassing board in Minnesota is meeting at 10:30 a.m. ET to decide two crucial issues: Whether to count the mounting number of absentee ballots that appear to have been rejected because of clerical errors, and whether to revert to the Election Night totals for that Minneapolis precinct where they lost 133 ballots in the recount. A decision in favor of either proposal would immensely benefit Al Franken, while deciding against them would significantly boost Norm Coleman.
No Obama Or Biden Events Today
Barack Obama is holding private meetings in Chicago today, while Joe Biden is doing likewise in Delaware. There are no public events scheduled.
Powell: GOP Can't Keep Listening To Limbaugh
Colin Powell told CNN that if the Republican Party wants to succeed again, it has to take a very hard look at its recent strategies of political polarization. "Can we continue to listen to Rush Limbaugh?" Powell said. "Is this really the kind of party that we want to be when these kinds of spokespersons seem to appeal to our lesser instincts rather than our better instincts?"
McCain's Top Pollster: "We Were Happy it Was Over"
At a forum last night at Harvard, top McCain pollster Bill McInturff was asked whether McCain could have pulled out a win if he'd had a few more weeks. Give McInturff credit for this honest answer, delivered without hesitation: "No -- we lost. We were happy it was over."
Feds: No Camping Out For Inauguration
In another effort to control the expected enormous crowd for Barack Obama's inauguration, federal officials have now announced that people will be forbidden from camping out overnight on the Mall. Furthermore, spectators will not be allowed to shot up to get a spot on the parade route until 7 a.m. that morning.
D.C. Councilman Proposes Modifying Extended Bar Hours
D.C Councilman Tommy Wells, who originally voted for the controversial law to allow bars to remain open for 24 hours a day in the run-up to the inauguration, now wants to modify the proposal to accommodate objections over public safety. Most notably, he would require bars to register with the city and pay a small fee for extending their hours, so that police will have a list of establishments to keep a close eye on.
McCain: Blago "A Rare Combination" Of Stupid And Nuts
John McCain appeared last night on the David Letterman show, where among other things the two swapped jokes about the Rod Blagojevich scandal and Blago's previous stated ambitions of being a reformer. When asked by Letterman if he thought Blagojevich was either stupid or nuts, McCain responded: "I think a rare combination of both."
The REAL Reason Prosecutor Fitzgerald Rushed to Arrest Blagojevich
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=5156
December 12, 2008 9:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Colin Powell criticizes Limbaugh, which means Rush will put a full smear on Powell, further marginalizing the far right.
Fun to watch.
December 12, 2008 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
...you're behind on your Rush trivia...Rush's been beating Powell up ever since it came out that Powell's deputy leaked Plame's name to the media and that Powell was aware of it but still let the VP and his people twist in the wind for months...more like Powell's swinging back.
December 12, 2008 9:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I thought lush was going after powell long before that. Lush's feelings about powell are the same as his feelings about mcnabb. He basically said the same thing several times.
December 12, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hopefully people will show up at the parade route, rather than shot up. It's gonna be a mess here in DC folks. If you are still planning on coming I known that there are still some people offering couches and spare bedrooms for free on Craig's list. You wouldn't want to sleep on the mall in January anyway.
December 12, 2008 9:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Trivia is right compared to the full smear that is coming, the one reserved for those who take El Rushbo's name in vain.
As I said, fun to watch.
December 12, 2008 9:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
This was supposed to have been in reply to the post by So-Fucking-Clueless Wallace.
December 12, 2008 9:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
...well at least I have a clue about how to properly respond to posted comments...
December 12, 2008 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Freeper gets a nice little zinger.
Credit where due.
December 12, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
The White House is now saying that they will be considering releasing part of the TARP money to tie over the Big 3 automakers. They are saying that it will be irresponsible to let the Big 3 go bankrupt.
December 12, 2008 9:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Heard the same thing. We should all keep our fingers crossed. They go bk and we all might as well start preparing the docs to go bk. The already cratering economy will go into a nightmare of a tailspin that will take forever to come out of.
December 12, 2008 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Even Cheney supposively said to the Repubs, when trying to get them to support the bail out, that if it wasn't passed, it was "Herbert Hoover time."
December 12, 2008 9:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, you beat me to it. Here's the quote from the news article:
That was the message Vice President Dick Cheney brought to a closed-door Senate GOP lunch Wednesday, reportedly warning that it’ll be “Herbert Hoover” time if aid to the industry was rejected, according to a senator familiar with the remarks. A Cheney spokeswoman would neither confirm nor deny the vice president’s remarks.
Now this is an incredibly surprising development. Very surprising.
December 12, 2008 9:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
To which the GOP leadership replied, "Go fuck yourself."
December 12, 2008 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
I realize that this is some attempt to spin the act as returning to small government and looking at the tax payers. But if the auto industry implodes, I don't see the Repub brand doing well in MI, IN, OH, etc for many years to come. Seems to be a continuation of a strategy to make themselves a regional (south, parts of the west and midwest)party, and thus a minority party.
December 12, 2008 9:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the Repugs were half hoping the Democrats would pass the thing over their opposition, and they would have cover with their dwindling nutjob constituency for opposing the evil bailout.
The last thing the Republicans give a shit about is the United States of America.
December 12, 2008 9:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
For people like Cheney who are primarily motivated by personal gain, see in their selfish best interests to bail out the auto industry. These Repub I believe are so mentally twisted in political knots they don't what their interests are anymore. They're just flailing about and crying "Blago! Blago!"
December 12, 2008 10:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Do we need any more evidence? Republicans hate America. Republicans hate Americans. Republicans hate us for our freedom. Republicans are bent on destroying America and enslaving Americans.
It's been going on since the New Deal, mostly under cover. Now it's out in the open for everyone to see. The thing is, sunlight is a very good disinfectant.
December 12, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Repugs know that if/when everything goes to hell, they can sit back and blame it all on the Democrats.
December 12, 2008 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Helo Kettle...this is the Pot!
December 12, 2008 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
One can say a lot of negative things about Cheney, but stupid is not one of them. Even he can see this is not some little old recession we're in.
December 12, 2008 9:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Now I agree with Dick Cheney? Will this nightmare never end?
December 12, 2008 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is why I don't want ideologues on Obama's team. The RePUGs are totally wedded to their free market theory that they are willing to watch the Big 3 go down and the US sink deeper into a recession, possibily even a depression. Damn the real world. The theory is the only thing that matters. What a bunch of losers.
This is also why they will become a fringe regional party if they continue to allow folks like DeMint and Shelby controll the agenda.
December 12, 2008 9:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nah, they will go the way of the whigs at this point. If they don't get with the program and radically change their platform, they are history.
December 12, 2008 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hope Obama will take this lesson to heart, and understand the foolishness of trying to work with Rethugs.
December 12, 2008 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good point on darth vader. I really don't get the republican senators by the way. What are they smoking? It must be good stuff. Their stupid little foreign screwdriver plants in their states will get shuttered as well when the whole economy gets flushed down the toilet. I also bet that the foreign manufacturers don't want to see the big 3 go down either. There won't be anybody to buy their cars. It is really kafkaesque.
December 12, 2008 9:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll worry about Hover time once we pass Carter time:
"During Carter's administration, the economy suffered double-digit inflation, coupled with very high interest rates, oil shortages, high unemployment and slow economic growth. "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter#Economy:_stagflation_and_the_appointment_of_Volcker
December 12, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought you guys took darth vader's word as gospel. What happened?
Incidentally, carter's economic problems were a direct result of tricky dick's economic policies. Why not blame the source? Republicans, once again.
December 12, 2008 10:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
...yep...all the problems in the world are caused by Republicans...if only the Republicans spies hadn't taken over the Polit Bureau the world would be Shangri-la today...
December 12, 2008 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think we can spread the blame pretty evenly amongst the parties in Congress and the White House. And we're going to need all the parties to get out of this mess. The problem here is that it seems that the Repub Senators decided to make a political stand on a bill that needed bipartisanship support. Given all the money that is flowing out to the financial industry, 15Billion is chicken feed.
December 12, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
The problem is that throwing good money after bad makes no sense. There is a successful business model for auto production in the US. The Republicans in the Senate said "re-align to that business model and you get the cash." The UAW said no, therefore you don't get the cash.
December 12, 2008 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Republican talking point. That's not what happened at all.
Who are you guys going to blame when you wipe out the unions?
December 12, 2008 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
We won't need to blame anyone...the companies will be successful without the UAW dragging them under water.
December 12, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ohhhh, I get it. Just like all those non-union wall street firms that the government did not regulate and allowed the "free market" to rule. They were super successful. Just get the government out of the way and the unions as well. Then, when everything gets totally f*cked up and the companies go belly up, the government can step in and shovel them money.
Yep, the wall street meltdown and the instant financial crisis was all the union's fault and those dirty blue collar workers, right? By the way, what was the revised business model that was shoved down the wall street firms throats by the republicans to "make them profitable again"? Hmmm, I don't remember one, do you?
December 12, 2008 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you're looking here for support of the $700 Billion bail out, you won't find it. I don't think failing companies should be artificially propped up. That's what the Bankruptcy protection is for, to freeze everything and determine if you can continue to operate after reorganization.
December 12, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
You can't reorganize if you can't get debtor in possession financing. That's a huge freaking problem. Do you understand that issue? No company could go chapter 11 right now and survive, absent government lending. Get it.
I don't doubt that you profess not to support the 700 billion bailout. The issue is the hypocrisy. Republican senators on board for the 700 billion for the guys who take showers before work and not on board for a pittance to help out 10 times more people who take a shower after work. It is disgusting hypocrisy.
December 12, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Honest question: Is there a reason why the govt could not simply provide for DIP financing in the event of bankruptcy instead of doing a pre-bankruptcy bailout?
December 12, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sure, you have the huge problem of the bankruptcy, which will make people less likely to buy vehicles from the bankrupt companies. That is a fact. The government can accomplish the same type of reorganization that would occur in chapter 11 pre-bankruptcy with conditions on lending the money. The whole issue is whether or not the government is willing to lend it. If not, liquidate. If so, do the reorganization as a condition of the loan. This chapter 11 crap is a total red herring. It's either 7 and 3 million people out of work or do the reorganization through the condiditons of the loan.
December 12, 2008 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
What we're seeing is the death throes of the conservative economic model and their grasping at their straws, eg it's all the unions fault. They can't let go of their fear of universial health care or realize that we have to be competitive in a world where other countries do subsidize their key industries. And on and on.
December 12, 2008 11:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, agree. Either they get with the program, or they go the way of the whigs. We have been operating on borrowed time, literally, and now it's time to get with the program. We cannot compete without universal healthcare and some government intervention in the marketplace in a globalized economy. It just isn't possible.
December 12, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
And I would say that the dynamics of the global economy today along with things such as the lost of the manufacturing industry in the nearly three decades since Carter (how time flys)makes this situation far worse because it can accerlerate so quickly.
December 12, 2008 10:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
If the big 3 declare bankruptcy today, they'll still be building cars tomorrow...if the UAW had agreed to renegotiate their contracts the bill would've passed. Now the companies will have to declare Chapter 11, the contract with the UAW will be re-done and cars will continue to be built, suppliers will continue supplying...there won't be any "Reid-villes" popping up around the country.
December 12, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
1. Odds are no they won't. Look at what happened to Lehman brothers.
2. This chapter 11 crap is totally crap. They won't be able to get debtor in possession financing, so they will have to liquidate or get government financing in bankruptcy. Totally stupid. Either the government lends them money or not. The issue is not the bankruptcy. If they are going to lend them money, then do it pre-bankruptcy or let them liquidate. Another republican red herring.
3. The labor costs are really not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of the company's problems. Why do you guys sport wood over unions all the time? The wages paid by the big three are not that different from the foreign screwdriver plants.
4. The biggest cost problem is healthcare that is tied into the labor force. Now, universal single payer healthcare will solve that problem. Are republicans ready to get on board with that? No, of course not.
5. Another huge problem is that the big three are not operating on a level playing field with their foreign competitors. The foreign competitors are heavily subsidized by their governments and they don't have the healthcare costs built into the unit price. (See no. 4 above).
Bankruptcy has nothing to do with this problem, other than if you want to put 3 million people on the streets and the government costs associated with that. What a sick and delusional joke.
December 12, 2008 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Bankruptcy has nothing to do with this problem, other than if you want to put 3 million people on the streets and the government costs associated with that. What a sick and delusional joke."
That's why the airline industry in America has collapsed, all of the major airports in the country have shut down and all of those workers are on the streets...jobless...right?
December 12, 2008 10:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, people aren't making an investment of 20-30k for 5 years or more for a freaking airline ticket. WTF? Try again.
December 12, 2008 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Also, the airline industry bankruptcies did not occur during a financial meltdown. They could get debtor in possession financing. There is no debtor in possession financing right now because the credit markets are frozen solid as a rock.
December 12, 2008 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
And the airline industry is not manufacturing, but a service industry. There are different dynamics at play, aside from this occurring during the global meltdown.
December 12, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
True, there are different dynamics in the 2 industries. However, bankruptcy does not = plants closed, zero cars built, 3 million instantly unemployed. Will some plants close? Yes. Will some jobs be cut? Probably. Will Ford F-150's become extinct? No.
December 12, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
In the current economic climate, it absolutely means 3 million people on the streets. I would not be arguing about the bankruptcy of one or even two of the big three absent the current environment. In fact, absent the current environment, they probably would not be having such incredible difficulties. They can't sell cars because people can't get financing and are fearful of their economic futures so they are unwilling to make a long term investment. Car sales have plunged across the board. LA harbor is filled to beyond capacity with foreign imports with nowhere to go because nobody wants the cars because nobody is buying.
The issue is not nearly as simplistic as you are trying to make it out to be.
December 12, 2008 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
"They can't sell cars because people can't get financing..."
I've been hearing a lot about the current consumer credit crunch...am I the only person left in America that still gets Pre-Approved Credit applications in the mail every day?
December 12, 2008 11:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you are wonderful. Check out news on the problems at la harbor with foreign imports and they have no place to send the cars. Or how about car sales went from about 17k per month to 10k. All companies still have the same market shares. Or how about the huge loans being given to foreign car companies by their governments to keep them afloat. You really should read the news every once in a while, as opposed to just regurgitating the republican talking points. I would suggest foreign news sources, since our propoganda outlets don't generally report news, only propoganda.
December 12, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
As for reading the news, see below. Why aren't you blaming the 8 Dems that could've passed the bill? More than 25% of Republicans supported it...
December 12, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
See my reply to Oskieoskie above.
And So-Fucking-Clueless Wallace, the pathetic ongoing fraud (I do like that reading of his "handle", BTW) lives and breathes Republican talking points, so we can safely infer that he also hates America, Americans, and America's freedom, and is either passively supporting or actively abetting their efforts to destroy America.
December 12, 2008 10:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Major news flash:
Democrats scuttle Auto bail out and blame Republicans. The vote failed 52-35 with 8 Democrats (the number needed to pass exactly) voting no or not voting. Lincoln, Biden, Kennedy, Kerry, Baucus, Tester, Reid and Wyden should be the ones y'all are pissed at...not us. Put down your rocks and take a good look at your own glass house!
December 12, 2008 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
My brother lives and works in D.C., so I'll be headed down unless his house gets rented out--which is still a distinct possibility.
December 12, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Simple fact: Repubicans balked at a pay ceiling for executives in the $700 billion Wall Street bailout. They insisted on a pay cut for workers in the $15 billion Detroit "loan." It is time to move NASA from Hunstville, Alabama to Flint, Mich.
December 12, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why that's not such a good idea from a physics perspective.
December 12, 2008 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Schmed, my boy, the reason there are NASA facilities in Hunstville, Alabama have exactly the same relation to pohysics as the reason why there are NASA facilities outside Houston. Zero.
Nobody suggested moving the launch facilities out of Florida. Just get the support facilties out of a long dead Senator's state.
December 12, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it fair that people with wealth are making decisions for people who are not?
December 12, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Powell owes his entire career to Republican polical desires to promote him through the bureaucracy. He is an incredible liquid nothing, possessing no core or clear values. He lacks intellectual credentials and certainly provides no ideological leadership. He is, frenkly, a puny thinker compared to Rush, who by the by does provide incisive insights, ideological clarity, and backs his pro-life views with faith and conviction. In that sense Mr. Powell is, in the words of his political arena, a turn-coat pig. He is nothing to me, though he can do real harm because he won't go away and let Christian Conservatives regain their place in a party. At the moment, we Christian Conservatives really don't have anywhere to go. That pleases many of you milk-toast, vegan-clear-broth, Powell-nothing types, but it won't build a movement or provide leaders. Some of us will wait, hope, and pray a party will form, perhaps even the pathetic Republican Party revamped with straightened spine anew, to which we can gravitate and support.
December 12, 2008 4:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is an angry left alright...just not at Obama. I'm mad at POP (People's Obstructionist Party...formerly called republican party). POP has prevented another vote from the majority from taking place. They offer no alternatives, no workable plans and in a time of crisis they linger, allowing more destruction and disaster to take place against the will of the majority for purely political reasons...to "obstruct" implementing any real change.
Each filibuster should be carried our physically within a time frame of say a week, and if the filibuster fails to persuade or change the opinion of the majority with it's continuous pressure, then it should be shut down and the issue come up for a vote. Thwarting the will of the people by this constant "threat" of filibuster which is just obstructing any progress from taking place is destroying our democracy.
There is the "rule" and then there is the spirit of the "rule"...what it was intended to accomplish. The filibuster was never intended to become a continuous obstruction to legislating by the majority. It should not take the complete collapse of our economy to demonstrate how harmful and wrong this obstructionism has become.
POP has no other purpose than to ensure no change will take place even in the face of economic collapse for most Americans as long as the business and the holdings of the wealthy are protected. Filibustering our way to fascism so to speak, because the senate is giving us nothing but obstructionism. Perhaps it's time to get rid of the senate altogether.
December 12, 2008 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh that it were true, that the Republicans really were "POP" as you say! Blessed be! Alas, you don't have a thing to worry about, godless lefty; the Republicans are of little threat to your agenda. They'll rise up in righteous indignation occasionally, but your Dem's can buy them for quite cheap.
December 12, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sadly, the leaders of both parties make up the "Money Party". The million dollar runs to stay elected or never be mentioned by the press again. Billion dollar corporations and the best government money can buy all forgetting about or ignoring that "fifth" element of the best laid plans. Are we really virtually inconsequential?...our elected leaders think so, it's the way POP acts.
December 12, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope at this time this is not the dominant tactic that takes place in the senate but I've heard that once again this is the plan...to obstruct everything just to make sure the majority party gets nothing accomplished. Trying to turn America into the home of the "super" majority.
Conservatism is not bound by party as the real opposition to Obama comes from his own party...the DINOs...not the so called "left"(which according to the media is anyone who disagreed with conservatism or the Bush agenda).
btw...there goes Blago with a big fork stuck in him being chased by a media carrying spoons yelling don't look over there.
December 12, 2008 5:50 PM | Reply | Permalink