Coleman Camp: The Missing Ballots Don't Exist; Officials: Yes, They Do
You know those missing 133 ballots in Minneapolis, which if never recovered could cause a net loss of 46 votes for Al Franken? The Coleman campaign now appears to be denying the conclusion that they even exist, even though city and state election officials have publicly said that the ballots do indeed exist and are missing.
Minneapolis elections chief Cindy Reichert explained yesterday that the ballots were placed in envelopes numbered 1 to 5 -- and they're missing the "1" envelope, probably still in storage at the warehouse. The precinct has obtained a waiver from the Secretary of State to keep their recount officially open while a thorough search goes on.
"We do not know that there are any ballots missing, and it is premature and simply irresponsible to suggest that they are," Coleman's lead recount lawyer Fritz Knaak said in a statement sent to the Pioneer Press.
Actually, we do know that there are ballots missing. The Minneapolis elections chief told us so, and we know which envelope is missing.
The Coleman must not believe that they are going to win if they are denying an envelope that obviously was misplaced. I mean, their strategy seems to deny reality. I bet those lost ballots seemed like a ray of hope from God to them...
December 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Their strategy seems to deny reality
SOP for Republicans.
See Bush, G.W., 2002, WMD.
December 5, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I know, but you'd think that their leaders would wise up. Denying reality's getting them nowhere.
December 5, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
To make denial of reality a central part of your ideological philosophy, one of the realities one must deny is that denying reality is counterproductive.
December 5, 2008 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can't even understand this. Does total incomprehension count as a denial of reality?
If so, then maybe I'm a Republican!
December 5, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Kinda like a verbal mobius strip. A similar axiom but from a different perspective would be Captain James Kirk's assertion in Startrek episode #? that "In an insane world the sane man must appear to be insane".
December 5, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Catch 22.
December 5, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
December 5, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
THAT is truly Awesome!!
I am going to have my wife needlepoint that into a doily for my coffee table!!
December 8, 2008 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
All I can say is:
LMAO!
This situation probably illustrates more clearly than almost any other the extent to which Repugs hate democracy and voters.
December 5, 2008 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, we love democracy and voting, we hate incompetence that leads to shit like this. After Florida 2000 who would've thought that we would make "0" progress?
December 5, 2008 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
You (the party in general and not the specific you) hate urban and/or lower class voters. Pretty much always have (I grew up in a Republican household with loads of Republican relatives--my grandfather and I were the token Democrats to provide a little diversity) and I remember all of the dinner table/holiday/family gathering discussions. And really this isn't incompetence. After all, they know exactly which envelope is missing, and it's pretty damn disingenuous of the Coleman campaign to claim that the #1 envelope doesn't exist with its non-existant missing ballots.
December 5, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's like a missing sock. You have one brown one with an orange stripe sock and you know there was another one somewhere.
Coleman's going, "Nope, there was never another sock. You bought it that way."
December 5, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
"And the other one-legged man bought the other one."
LOL--good analogy!!
December 5, 2008 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
...Dude, if it's like my missing socks Frakken's toast...they'll never find it.
December 5, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
dammit! You found the flaw in my analogy.
December 5, 2008 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe they'll find them in a mysterious other-dimensional warehouse full of single socks, ballpoint pen caps and jump-drives that are supposed to be on people's keyrings.
December 5, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clothes driers. Two go in, only one comes out. Isn't that Newton's second law of the universe?
December 5, 2008 11:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think that was his 3rd, 2nd is everytime you step in the shower the phone will ring.
December 5, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Socks reincarnate as clothes hangers. Maybe they could try looking for the clothes hanger equivalent of a ballot envelope. Wonder what that would be?
December 5, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm blanking--didn't Douglas Adams find this place in his Hitchhiker's series?
December 5, 2008 11:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, though I don't remember which book.
True story: Right after I read that book, a favorite shirt of mine that had disappeared into that very parallel universe 10 years and three moves earlier, reappeared a decade and hundreds of miles from where it vanished!
December 5, 2008 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Embarrassingly, I remember the sniglet (remember sniglets?) for the place in the atmosphere where missing socks go when the disappear from the dryer: it's called the hozone.
December 5, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's a club in Macon called G-Money's it's refered to on occassion as the Ho-zone.
December 5, 2008 12:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, that meaning occurred to me as I was typing, of course. Sniglets came from a time when "ho" wasn't quite as close to acceptable parlance as it is now.
December 5, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Zaphod Beeblebrox and Veet Voojagig searched for a planet populated by all of the lost ballpoint pens of the universe, but claimed to have never found it. He later began a lucrative second-hand ballpoint pen business.
Why do I remember this? Cause it's a great book!
December 5, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is exactly right.
The Repugs are openly antagonistic to the idea of as many Americans voting as are eligible to vote.
My belief about voting has always been about parallel with my belief about our criminal justice system. It's far better to let some guilty people go than to continually lock up large numbers of innocent people. In voting, I'm all for letting people vote and I think it's far better to have some ineligible votes as opposed to keeping out hundreds of eligible ones.
December 5, 2008 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
You love democracy and voting...for yourselves. You're just not too keen on extending these things to other people, especially if they vote for the disagree with you. GMAFB
December 5, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
So how long until Minnesota laws are changed? This election has to be pretty annoying to state lawmakers there.
December 5, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, with Republicans running all three branches of government from then until Jan 2007, the 'Help Americans Vote Republican Act' (HAVA) and the resulting lack of reliable systems or standardized rules were a foregone conclusion.
As with corporate management, international warfare and disaster reconstruction, if you want it f'ed up, get Republicans involved.
December 5, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
And reality--they hate reality too.
December 5, 2008 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's that darn known liberal bias. . .
December 5, 2008 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is great news. The fact that the elections chief knows an envelope is missing cements the Franken camp's case. Unless they find that missing envelope, the only reasonable solution that I see is to go back to the original vote total, which means Al gets those 46 votes back and he's ahead for now. We should be getting final recount totals today, right? Then it's a matter of going through the challenges.
December 5, 2008 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
One of those known unknowns!
December 5, 2008 10:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
lol. And how true.
December 5, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Totally OT, but the current rumor seems to be Caroline Kennedy possibly replacing Hillary:
http://www.americablog.com/2008/12/caroline-kennedy-for-us-senator-from.html
December 5, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just was reading about that. Interesting.
December 5, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ooooh.....intriguing.
December 5, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
She's easier to listen to than Bobby Kennedy Jr. He inherited the double whine gene.
December 5, 2008 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
Did you know he has dysphonia?
December 5, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Never "misunderestimate" the ability of wingnuts to let those pesky facts get in the way of their opinions.
December 5, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Am I reading that backwards? Or did you mean we shouldn't misunderestimate their ability to let opinions get in the way of facts?
Sorry if I'm the culprit doing the misunderstanding here. (sleep deprived a bit today)
December 5, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
In fairness, they didn't say they don't exist, they said they don't know, and given the general ignorance of the Coleman campaign, I think it's plausible that they don't.
December 5, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're absolutely right.
The envelope is missing. The ballots might not be. That a reasonable person might conclude that the ballots are in the envelope and thus, are missing, is irrelevant. The only thing we know for sure, according to Coleman, is that the envelope is missing.
I love lawyers.
December 5, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Moderately paranoid version: Someone in the Quimby camp nicked it.
Non-paranoid version: We are seeing the sorts of human errors that will inevitably creep into a process as large as this. The envelope labeled #1 will materialize. The votes in it will be counted, much to the chagrin of the PR-spin-spouting Quimby camp.
Followup on democracy and voting: Yes, the Republicans hate democracy and voting, if it involves people other than their chosen inner circle and their legion of incredibly uninformed, largely religion- and emotion-driven adherents. They know quite well that their views run deeply contrary to much of what the public believes, so they cloak them in the sorts of lies that are shiny on the outside, while not standing up to closer inspection. As I recall, the real Jesus, the antiauthoritarian one they would prefer not to acknowledge, called these sorts of shady manipulative characters "whited sepulchers".
And it's only made easier for them by the reality that close to 40% of the American adult public is, at best, literate only to about a 5th grade level. This dramatically affects their ability to follow much beyond simplistic, emotion-laden narrative and makes them far too easily led. This is a tragedy and needs addressing, sooner rather than later. The better people are able to discover real information for themselves, the more difficult is is to lie to them. That is what Republicans fear.
As John Lennon put it: "Keep you doped with religion, sex and TV, and you think you're so clever and classless and free..."
December 5, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
"But yer still ******* peasants, as far as I can see..."
December 5, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Only the ones who don't vote...
December 5, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Don't forget to register to vote" -- Frank Zappa, on the back of just about every album he put out. :)
December 5, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I read the commenting code, and I believe we can still curse when it doesn't get crazy. Quoting John Lennon is, I'm sure, a place you can curse with pride!
December 5, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Funny how the election official who "lost" the ballots is a Democrat, the designers of the 2000 butterfly ballot was a Democrat, the people who tried to vote for Gore but eneded up voting for Buchanan were Democrats, Democrats in Mississippi sued the Governor because of the location of the special election on the ballot for fear that "low information voters"(ie Democrats) would miss it. But we're the uniformed ignorants...
December 5, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
"uniformed ignorants".
You said it, not me.
December 5, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
lol...that's what I get for looking at the keyboard while typing..."uninformed"
December 5, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I like "uniformed"...Righties are uniformed ignorants, and lefties are street urchins, peering in the window...
December 5, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
LMAO!
December 5, 2008 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
...of course during my 24 years and 29 days I did run into a few uniformed ones too.
December 5, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
I worked for a general once who caught on to the fact that I wore a Mickey Mouse watch every time I had to sit in on a staff meeting with him. . .
December 5, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
lol...and I'm sure he was impressed when he discovered it.
December 5, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, yeah! :-)
December 5, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I for one am tired of the elitist wing of the Democrat Party alleging their voters are too dumb to figure out the ballots we designed for them. What do they expect us to do, keep track of the damn things after they vote, or what, exactly?
December 5, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously!
December 5, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Better start with the pre-schoolers, because that is where the lifetime literacy laziness you lament puts down it's first thirsty taproot.
The changes you "demand" are achievable, but we have to start NOW offering exceptional educational opportunities to our youngest members, and providing a continuity to that chain of learning opportunity that reaches into high school and beyond.
But it starts with our 3-year olds, and how we get them started. Every day that we let Madison Avenue mold them with TV commercials, without offering them a more-cultured counter-balance, is one more day we continue walking backwards.
December 5, 2008 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Goodness, but I hope that they find that envelope and that it turns out to have every last ballot that anyone ever thought that it might contain. If not, in a race this close, that is going to be one heck of a messy lawsuit.
December 5, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Coleman's "people" sure seem like the desperate type... considering how Coleman got the job in the first place, it's always set my tin-foil hat a tingling whenever that particular senate seat is discussed.
Makes one wonder just what is going on under the covers, that they would be willing to go this far to assure Coleman's victory.
And even if he wins, isn't Coleman facing some serious legal impediments to his future in the Senate, (and in politics) due to the Texas mess he's embroiled in, through his wife's insurance company?
Seriously, just WHO does Coleman represent on the sly, and why do they so desperately want him to retain his seat? Who are "they?"
Who is Coleman connected to, behind the scenes? Anyone got any idea?
December 5, 2008 11:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is just nuts. How incompetent are they people? Is this intentional incompetence? The whole reason for the recount is the closeness of the tally, and no one takes extra care of the ballots. Shouldn't they all be together in a secure environment under lock and key? Is no one accountable? It is hard to believe these people are paid a salary to screw things up this badly.
December 5, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
My thoughts as well.
Theroretically these five envelopes should all be together -- how does one go missing? Can't these people count?
December 5, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
And we're invading other countries to bring them democracy!
December 5, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ok, somebody help me out here, the MN Sec of State website shows Franken in the lead. Is it the number of challenged ballots that is keeping this close?
December 5, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Does the Franken camp have any update on the count? Last I heard, they were claiming to be ten up (assuming all challenges are rejected and the missing ballots are found)? However, that was before some ballots were counted yesterday in the two counties that have yet to complete the recount
December 5, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's easy to laugh at Coleman's asshattery, but the notion that the only way Democrats win, given that we're a "center right country" is through election fraud is as central to Republican mythology as Olympus was to the Greeks.
State and national elections are high-stress, high-stakes affairs largely run by amatuers and that occur too infrequently for even the pros to be in training so a lot of human error gets built into those tallies. Statistically, those errors will tend to more or less average out, but in a close one, that "more or less" can be greater than the winner's margin. If there were no error, we wouldn't have to do recounts, even in the close ones. Because there is, we do recounts in the close ones to try to clense the talley of as many of those errors as possible.
By definition, recounts will turn up screwy things. Ballots go into the tabulator wrongside up, digits get transposed, ballots get sent to the wrong location at the close of the day (when, trust me, precient workers really, really, really want to get the business wrapped up and get home to a drink and a comfy chair and a TV tuned to the election news. In Republicanworld, however, any screwy things that happened on election day are evidence that agents of Goldstein, er, the Democrats have tampered with the ballot.
Mark my words; Fox and the WSJ opinionpage and the Nutosphere will be screaming that this whole thing proves that the Democrats/ACORN/Goldstein are stealing yet another election from them.
December 5, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Steve, I don't think anyone much is listening to them on the subject of election fraud. Not after 2000 - I don't think anyone much thinks the Repugs have one leg to stand on when it comes to accusing the Democrats of throwing elections.
December 5, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, agreed. My concern is that at some point--could be 2010, more likely, 2020--we're going to stumble and they're going to bounce back. When it happens, I would prefer that they not have driven themselves madder than march hares on a steady diet of mercury and locoweed.
Assuming they don't go so completely, mouth-foamingly, batshit insane over the next four years that their party disintegrates like the Whigs and Federalists before them, of course.
December 5, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those ballots are there. They are smart. They are handsome. And they like Al.
December 5, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!
Thanks. I needed that.
December 5, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I don't think anyone much thinks the Repugs have one leg to stand on when it comes to accusing the Democrats of throwing elections."
AHA! So, the one-legged man is a Republican. He must have taken off with the other sock ... Either that, or check the lint filter.
December 5, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Coleman says there are no missing ballots
and then gets his head handed to him by a person who KNOWS WHAT THE FUCK HE IS TALKING ABOUT
so, mr coleman, care to comment on the missing envelope ???
gonna tell me that ballot envelope doesn't exist ???
is the number "1" just a figment of my imagination ???
is anybody else embarrassed by the fact that self serving butt puppets like coleman who are consistently wrong and intentionally uninformed are actually serious candidates for national office
how could we be a first rate country when half of our elected offices are filled with fourth rate intelects like coleman
this guy couldn't find his ass with both hands and a map
and half of Minnesotans think he should represent them
what's the matter with Minnesota ???
December 5, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing the hell is the matter with Minnesota. As you can see the level of shifting and corrections in the recount is quite low - nothing like the huge shifts in the Florida recount. In Minnesota, the answer was simple and nonpartisan, the law says count every vote, so that's what they are doing.
As to Minnesotans voting for Coleman, well I think if this race between Coleman and Franken had been run in 45 of the other 49 states, Coleman would have won in a walk. Franken is not just a celebrity, he's a comedian, a satirist who has said offensive things. Few people really thought he could win - given the ammunition available for Coleman to throw at him.
Humor is idiosyncratic and there are people who don't find him funny. There are people who wonder about Minnesota because Franken may win. Some people see Franken as Jesse Ventura all over again....so don't ask what's wrong with Minnesota. Look instead at what's right with a state where there are very lower errors found in the recount and willing to look past a comedians jokes and see the substance.
December 5, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink