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Source: Clinton Camp In Holding Pattern, Waiting On Obama

Advisers to Bill and Hillary Clinton believe they've given the Obama transition team much if not all of the all the information on Bill's post-presidency the Obama team will be asking for, and see the Clinton camp as now being in a holding pattern, waiting on a formal offer of the State Department gig to Hillary from Obama, a source close to the negotiations tells us.

The source adds that it's always possible that more requests for info about Bill could be made, which the Clinton team would willingly furnish if asked, but says that it looks as if the vast majority of the Obama camp's desires have been met. Multiple news outlets have reported that Hillary has not made up her mind whether to take the gig, and the source confirms this.

It's not yet clear whether the next step in the process will be Hillary signaling to Obama that she wants the gig, or whether it will be a formal offer from Obama, the source adds. Still, the fact that the Obama camp appears to have much if not all the info it wants is perhaps a sign that some of the public press around Bill could subside, which would be a source of relief in the Clinton camp and could hasten the resolution of the situation.

Multiple reports this morning said that Bill had agreed to a number of concessions to smooth Hillary's way to the Secretary of State job, including agreeing to disclose the identities of donors to his foundation and to vet future speeches and activities abroad with Obama aides.

Now Clinton advisers believe that they've satisfied the vast majority of the Obama camp's demands, the source says.

Spokespeople for Bill, Hillary and Obama all declined to comment.


139 Comments

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What negotiations are you referring to?

And is that source a Clinton source, or an Obama source?

I'm not sure I trust Clinton sources at all.

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It's Chelsea...

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by way of Socks the Cat...

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As with the VP slot, it seems (and I stress seems) that the Clinton camp feels that if you vet, then you must offer the position, that she is unlike the others like Richardson who get vetted with no guarantee the position will be offered.

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[DELETED BY MANAGEMENT]

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wow. First time hearing that!

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She's married to The Clenis.

Which is where it all began.

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Let's keep things civil please.

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Jesus, after some of the sh!t that was posted here during the primaries and throughout the general, NOW you're going to start moderating?

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Co-sign. Thin end of the wedge. Bad move.

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Are you serious Andrew? That's an old old online term for the Clintons that got started at Eschaton 6 years ago.

Is this where we're going here? Wow.

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I am so fucking pissed. You do not censor me.

Fuck you and Fuck TPM.

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Tena, I deleted the comment because it referred to a female politician as a part of the female anatomy. That's why multiple people reported it as abusive and violating our terms of service against harassing content.

That being said, I'm willing to admit that I didn't understand the satirical context and that I should have said something without deleting.

I haven't deleted your other comments, despite them being clear violations of our Terms, because I want to make clear that we're going to starting to enforce this stuff more and we're appreciate it if you held off in the future. If you do that, we'll try to have a lighter touch and understand context before we act.

Thanks.

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Don't drive Tena away, or you'll lose more than just her.

Free-wheeling discussion, profanity, insults, oh my! What is this, the innernets?

Come on, lighten up. Your terms of use are tight-assed.

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I see. So women -- especially but not only -- can call men "pricks" but men can't use the equivalent term in reference to women? Why is that? Because women need protection because they aren't less than men, but men don't need protection because they're equal to women?

Let's not be sexist either way, okay? That includes not censoring turnabout as fair play in effort to pentrate the arrogance behind that bigotry. I don't approve of either. But I won't tolerate bigotry, and I won't tolerate being censored for expressly the bigotry in the only terms likely to get through to the bigots.

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Andrew, we appreciate the work you do here and I, of course, always assume you have the best of intentions.

But, you got this one wrong.

Come on, the community here mostly functions.

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That term has existed for many years more than 6.

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WTF? Herr Andrew, bist du verucht? Are you gonna censor this? Am I not being civil enough? Jesus. Oops. How about that? Wait a minute, is WTF the same as what the fuck? Is there an upper limit on the number of fucks per post?

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That's how I see this too. Like, "You must make an offer, but that does not mean I'll accept it." It seems (and I too stress "seems") the Hillary side doesn't want to be vetted without an offer to be made, and the Obama side doesn't want to make an offer and get declined.

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Gee Greg, this really jives with your first post today about where the leaks that are flowing like a waterfall are coming from. You are spinning like a top. This is beyond outrageous. If obama brings on this clinton garbage, he will be screwed.

By the way greg, who's the source? It's been the same one for almost two years now. Is it her press secretary? Inquiring minds want to know.

Also, why didn't the source leak the fact that the NIE was based on lies before the iraq war? That would have been a fruitful leak, as opposed to this garbage.

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This dance is getting old.

No, this dance was old on Saturday. Now is day 6 of the Hillary Watch.

I am sure they will eventually reach an understanding but if every decision Hillary needs to make as SoS gets played out through "sources close to the negotiations" I suspect she'd better make sure she has a fall back plan when she gets ousted.

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Yes. You'd have to have been living in a cave for the last six months not to know that the press pushes "Clinton Drama!!!!~!!@#!@!!" and now pushes "No Drama Obama!!!!!!!" with the same mindless zeal.

Now, given that's how this is portrayed, wouldn't it occur to Clinton "sources" that all the leaking and whispering might not be the best tactic if the goal was securing the SOS position?

Maybe Clinton shouldn't be asked. Too much extra-curricular B.S. will be generated.

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I think the reason the Obama camp hasn't said either yay or nay regarding any of these Clinton rumours is that they are just that, rumours. But they are happy that they're circulating, as it distracts from what is actually going on. I feel about 10,000% that Hillary is not getting the SOS nod. Ted Kennedy apparently agrees with me, seeing as he's offering Hillary the Healthcare leadership spot, sure, he's not in the loop, but he thinks the way i do it would seem

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I don't see how you could possibly be so certain. There are good arguments pro and con.

Another way to think about it: Senators are offering Hillary other options, who would rather not see her as SoS, but recognize she has enough leverage and prestige to expect something considerable.

If she can be happy in the Senate in a prominent position, and won't grandstand or obstruct, I think that would be best. She could get a lot done and I think the Obama admin could be very generous in spreading credit around.

I don't really think she's best for SoS on her own merits, though she's not bad either. But if she just has to be in the Executive branch, and will make a stink otherwise, it's probably the best option overall. Though I think she'll eventually diminish and shut herself out if she plays it that way.

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Chalking this up to "Hillary Drama" is simplistic. Any time a formal rival is considered for a cabinet position, it's inherently dramatic.

Hillary isn't the only person being vetted that the public is aware of through leaks.

There will always be political trial balloons floated through leaks, just as there will always be water cooler talk before business decisions, and lovers will always drop hints before taking the plunge.

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I dont like the Clintons, but i do believe that Hillary, if selected as SoS, will play ball because she knows that as a senator she wont have any pull or say in BO's administration at all. SoS is the only way she can stay relevant and be a player.

My biggest concern is Bill. He is like a once famous actor who hasnt come to terms with that fact that he isnt what he once was.

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You know, I was firmly behind the decision to offer SoS to Clinton. I think she's a personality large and focused enough to reclaim the foreign policy initiatives back from the Defense Department and back into State. But at this point, it's legitimate to question if the downsides of the Clintons completely outweighs any up.

So now Greg has a "source". And this source claims over and over that the Obama camp has "much if not all" of the information they need about Clinton. What does that even mean? Why are we getting all these anonymous "sources"? All they had to do was chill out, sit back, and let the process run. And they couldn't even do that.

If I was advising Obama, I'd seriously say let this one go.

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I agree. Yesterday I was defending the idea of Hillary as SoS, but geez, the same drama and "negotiations" are wearing me down. Thanks but no thanks.

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lol, every time I see "thanks but no thanks", I unfortunately immediately thank of Sarah Palin. Doh.

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I'm sick of the damn Clintons.

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I'm sick of whoever Greg gets his crappy leaks from.

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I think it is the same one that Andrea Mitchell gets her leaks from.

How many votes for Patti Solis Doyle?

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Another thing, the source repeatedly says "most of the demands have been met". I didn't realize "most" was an option. The employer (Pres) asks that you fill out all of the lines on an application. You don't get to fill out most of the lines, or those that are convenient, or those that put you in the best light. You provide what they ask for or you don't get the job.

That part of it sounds like a power play by the Clinton to force Obama's hand. And it stinks.

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Yep. Total power play. That's been all this leaking garbage that's been going on since obama talked to her in chicago. Total power play and it is totally not worth the drama and future problems. Send her packing back to the back bench of the senate. This is pathetic.

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Ummm...you don't power play the President. "Most demands have been met" probably just means that they're working on the rest. You also don't jerk him around by leaking information all over the place. Who would be more embarrassed if he chose someone else? Vetting is notoriously leaky. You have to ask a lot of people and you can't keep that many people quiet.

People need to seriously chill out over this. How many bad appointments has he made? If he wants Hillary Clinton, I'm inclined to think he knows what he's doing.

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I agree. I think the calculus is actually very nuanced and I ultimately think Obama's team has demonstrated excellent judgment and foresight.

One disturbing thing is I don't trust the Clintons not to leak or play politics, even to their own detriment. Which is the disturbing thing, to think the Clintons have habits they can't necessarily control, and the Obama admin may have to forever anticipate Clintonesq behavior while opponents try to exploit it.

But, I'm suspect Obama's team is fully aware of that and it's already factored in, whether she's in or out.

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if the Clintons are trying to pull a power play, it will backfire. BO doesnt need her, she needs him.

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To a certain extent, they need each other. And it would have been nice if certain ego had been able to work toward this end, but clearly that hasn't happened.

End the end whether they want to admit it or not, if they really expect to be players moving forward, they need Obama.

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Multiple news outlets have reported that Hillary has not made up her mind whether to take the gig, and the source confirms this.

I can't imagine that she and Bill would have jumped through all those vetting hoops if she didn't want the job.

To be charitable, I'll interpret what you wrote as saying that your source confirmed that multiple news outlets have reported that Hillary has not made up her mind :-)

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To be fair, she may not have, and may still be weighing her options.

By which I mean, sure she'd like to be SoS, but if enough Senators or the Admin don't want her there, and are willing to offer something choice in the Senate, she'd then prefer that.

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... but if enough Senators or the Admin don't want her there...

Hmmm.  I don't see any indication that the Obama administration doesn't want her.  But maybe if the vetting process isn't done yet (though many reports seem to say it is), and they find something disqualifying, it's possible that BigO could change his mind.

I don't see how it would affect her choice if enough senators don't want her to be SoS.  She doesn't strike me as someone who would give them veto power over this kind of career choice.  But if you mean they want her there for healthcare, yes, I could see it.  But except for Ted Kennedy, there seems to be little enthusiasm for giving her that charge.

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Wait, I thought the job was already offered to her and that it was up to her to decide if she wanted it. Now they say they are waiting for an offer?

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They're waiting for an offer after providing most of what was asked for. You have a problem with that?

I'd feel the same way, applying for a job. "I gave you most of the information that you asked for about my past experience, education and skills, and now I'd like to know what you're going to offer me. OK?"

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With normal people I would agree with you. With the clintons, I am sure they didn't give barely anything and are trying to force their hand. It's the clinton way.

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An argument could be made that Obama camp, by letting the media in on this from the beginning through leaks (if it was his camp), has allowed the Clintons to be the Clintons (and the media to be the media) to an extent that he can not offer her the position and a lot of people would say, "don't blame ya."

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I don't buy that. The situation with the V.P. non-offer could have been handled the same way, but Obama made his choice without all this leaking and Hillary was one of the candidates passed over. He has selected 4-5 other cabinet level positions and staff without the constant hedged leaks like this one.

The Clintons have a 20-30 year history of playing ball this way. Obama doesn't.

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Ah, but Hillary was not on Obama's short list for Veep and you'll remember that back then the Clintons and the PUMAs were angry as hell because she wasn't vetted, let alone asked to be vetted for VP. Hence the "I have to put my name in nomination at the convention" drama only to provide the "dramatic watch me take my name out of nomination at the convention" drama. So now we have the "exciting and dramatic watch me agonize over whether to take the SoS job or stay in the Senate" drama.

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Don't have a problem with that concept, it's what I think actually happened. I'm commenting on the breathless reporting last week that Obama had offered her the job last week. I didn't believe it at the time (sounded VERY un-Obama-like (if there is such a thing at this point)).

Basically, I'm being a snarky ass.

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I was too, but not successfully enough.

Obviously.

I can't imagine interviewing for a position and not providing every piece of information the interviewer wanted. That's pretty nervy.

As for the breathless reporting? Good luck with all of that. I'm hoping the Obama campaign proves so many reporters wrong on so many levels that they reconsider their reporting.

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With all the leaks, I'm sure Obama will dump the wench.

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Let's keep derogatory comments to a minimum please.

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Andrew, what exactly are your moderating standards? Twice now you've corrected comments that referred to Hillary in uncomplimentary terms. Will the same standards apply when discussing Lieberman? Or George W. Bush? Or Cheney? Are you attempting to establish a tone of discussion based on the site's favored political figures?

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I have the same doubts. If I post anti-clinton posts (which I generously and generally do, especially when TPMEC tries very hard to spin things her way), would it amount to "derogatory remarks" and not "playing nice" ?

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Now that we have a report abuse button, we'll be jumping in more often when we think it's appropriate. In this case, I just wanted to encourage a little less derogatory language against women, but didn't think it was bad enough to delete it.

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I am sure P.G. Wodehouse would get banned here going by your codes. Have you ever read him, Andrew ?

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I know this thread is way old, but... FUCK YOU ANDREW!!!!

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I wouldn't call her a wench but I agree the leaks disqualify her. She just doesn't know how to keep her mouth shut. That is a bad quality in a chief diplomat.

You will notice that I take the leaks right back to her. If she can't keep her team quiet, she can't handle the job of SOS.

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I think BO asked her for information and Clinton's people ran to the media hoping to get in front to create the narrative that BO will pick her for SoS.

I still think she wont get it and all of the drama that the Clintons have drummed up these last few days is hurting her more than helping her. Richardson will be the next SoS.

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Too right. Co-sign.

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Obama needs to have a sit-down talk with Sen. Clinton about these leaks - either she stops them or she takes herself out of the running. Furthermore let it be known that he will not put up with the State Department leaking like a sieve and will not think twice about replacing her if she can't keep it out of the media.

Obama's style has always been "You can disagree as passionately and ardently as you like behind closed doors and you're be listened to however once a decision is made you live by the decision and support it 100%. I can only imagine a scenario where the Clinton State Department is in disagreement with President Obama and the leak it out how "Hillary would have did this differently, but Barack wanted it this way".

Obama brought this all on himself, though he has to know what he was getting into. I mean there was no groundswell for Clinton to be in his cabinet - he could have named Richardson, Holbrooke, or Susan Rice and nobody would have given it a second thought. It's as if Obama needed to open this Clintonian Pandoras Box...

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Yeah I agree these leaks reek of old Beltway dealing. It should be made perfectly clear to Hillary that if she plays gratuitous politics in the job, as is her nature, it won't be tolerated, she'll be undercut and outmaneuvered just as she was in the Primary, and wind up a figurehead trying to preserve her reputation like Lieberman.

Having said that, there will always be trial balloons floated on politically sensitive issues, which Hillary certainly is. So I would be shocked if there wasn't some leaking on this, potentially from both camps.

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That was the lincoln mantra. It makes everyone feel involved and each person states there case, since they have gotten the debate off of their chests they can now implement the President's will wholeheartedly. It's truly ingenious.

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drip
drip
drip

lol

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I agree, maybe Bill needs a shot of Cillin!

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I don't understand the hedging "much if not all" the information that the Obama team wants. Why not all? aren't the withheld pieces likely to be the most important or revealing?

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I am sure if the Clintons push back too hard, the Obama camp will e-mail 10 million people; why Obama made the decision he did.

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Greg,
I trust your instincts and practices as a journalist and am delighted that you are starting to make your mark in national political coverage. I'd be interested in hearing more about your thoughts about how how to handle a source like this when the possibility that sources are trying to spin the coverage of the SoS choice to pressure participants to offer or not offer, accept or not accept. Does your reporting just report what the source says, or is it preceded by an assessment of whether there is spin involved and reported only if you are persuaded that there is not?

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Sorry, it's not about the Clintons, it's about me and my 401K and the Clintons are a global sized narcissistic distraction.

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One side is saying one thing, the other side is saying another... what gives?

"Obama camp are bristling at what they see as strategic leaks by the Clintons aimed at boxing in the president-elect and forcing him to offer the post."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/13/hillary-clinton-secretary_n_143735.html

which is it??

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This is beginning to feel very much like the Hillary we saw in May instead of that wonderful, reasonable Hillary we saw in October. She "only" told three people--instead of none--and then drove directly to the airport and took a direct flight to Chicago. I'm pretty sure that she knows how to keep a secret better than that. Where is Lanny Davis and what is he doing? This is all beginning to have a Lanny-ish feel to it. I had hoped that the October Hillary would show up because she has so much to offer, but if it's May Hillary or nothing, then Obama's best friend ought to tell him to make use of something in Bill's vetting that could potentially be embarrassing to the presidency--at which point Hill will decide she really wants to stay in the Senate and people will calm down. I'll go along with Obama, but this is feeling way too much like the primary. Kerry seemed to hurt his chances by trying to campaign for the job via the press and Howard Dean asked reporters not to do that the other day because it would hurt any chance he might have. And here we are with all the drama and the Clinton team it rode in on. I'm thinking Hill might want to take those nice offers from Teddy Kennedy and Majority Leader Reid in the Senate.

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ABC reports Obama wants James L. Jones, former Supreme Commander of NATO, for National Security Adviser.

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YES!!! That is as respected a man as you can get. Also Bi Partisan and not idiological whatsoever, strictly pragmatic. Damn what an all star team.

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You know, John McCain wasn't so wrong. Hillary and the Former First Dude have a lot more in common with the Palins than we want to admit.

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Former First Dude? Bill Clinton was president. First Dude refers to a male spouse of a government official.

I don't necessarily disagree with your comment if you mean that the Clintons may have something in common with the Palins on the thirst for power scale, but the way you've phrased it is confusing. In addition to being a cheap shot at Bill Clinton.

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If it was a cheap shot at Bill Clinton, the shot hit the target.

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Do you think she's negotiating for a shopping spree in Paris?

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Once again people are going ballistic over an unidentified "source" that is most likely someone simply passing on something overheard while making his/her mail rounds. Pitiful.
Since Mr. Obama has not offered the position of SoS to her, it is indeed very sensible of Sen. Clinton to await an official offer before stating her response. It could be more than a little embarassing for her should she announce her acceptance of something not yet offered and then be informed that, while she was indeed among the final few being considered, she just hadn't made the cut.
Nor would it look very good for Mr. Obama's team either, as the presumption among those not directly involved in the final decision could be, and mostly likely would if they were members of the media, that the Senator had accepted having been led to believe that the position was hers for the asking. I can see the headlines now: "Obama spurns Clinton as SoS!". And for the next four years, should Sen. Clinton disagree with the President on anything it will be solely because she wasn't made SoS. Little will be written or said about the whether such disagreement actually has any merit or not.
By announcing the choice for SoS in the manner Mr. Obama has chosen, he makes it all but impossible for any such headlines as I imagined above. Should anything turn up during the vetting process that would bar Sen. Clinton from being offered SoS there will be nothing to retract, since no offer has been made. Simpler all around and no bruised egos (and Clinton-crazed media/supporters/haters) to deal with.
At least publicly.

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Every day it's more and more leaks from Bill and Hillary, along with pushing Barack into a corner to appoint Hillary as Secretary of State.

If Bill and Hillary keep being so pushy, I wouldn't even give her the job of chief cook and bottle washer in the White House.

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I think Obama ought to send the Clintons and Traitor Joe on a slow boat to some far flung spot, let the ship be captured by pirates, and refuse to pay the ransom.

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This is ridiculous. Hey, Greg - how about this for an idea? How about waiting unitl you actually have something to report, and *then* report it?

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Is this what waterboarding feels like?

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"a source close to the negotiations tells us."

Whatever.

It's all about those loyal to the Clintons doing all they can to keep John Kerry or Bill Richardson, traitors and dead people that they are, from not getting the high-profile cabinet position.

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or making them "feel" like they were 2nd choice, power play.

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If I don't hear the name Wesley Clark in the next month I will be deeply saddened.

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Wesley Clark! There! Feel better? :-)

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Maybe I can help as well: I don't think we much need Wesley Clark. He could be Secretary of Army, maybe. Most of us could as well, of course.

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Shorter everyone reporting on Clinton/SoS: This story isn't unfolding as fast as we'd like in the age of instant gratification so we have to fill space with vapid speculation. Things are happening! Developing...

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

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Well, if this is an indication of how long negotiations are going to take under an Obama/Clinton regime, don't expect anything radical like say peace.

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As I said earlier today, we overlook the fact that the might in the process of vetting actually find something they don't like. That might sound like I'm crapping on the Clintons but the whole point of vetting is to actually vet.

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A truly revolutionary idea :-)

Vetting?  We don't got no vetting.  Sarah Palin didn't need no stinkin' vetting!

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I actually thought the same this morning and posted it (as a question). The Bill side was reported as saying "Gave them everything they wanted in order to smooth the route for Hill" but what the hell it just does not make sense to me... because, you know, it does NOT necessarily smooth the route, right?

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you know folks, all the pro/anti hillary lieberman sniping is just what obama said he wasn't going to engage in. he is focused on what will help the country. i remember all the sniping during the campaign : attack more, attack less, do this, do that... turns out he did what he needed and planned to do and gosh, the results were quite spectacular. So, perhaps just let him make his decisions????

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According to Gallup

79% of Democrats approve of Senator Clinton as Secretary of State.
57% of independents approve.
61% of Republicans are against it. They are joined by 12% of Democrats.
Puts all of this Maureen Dowd-type generated phony "drama" into perspective, doesn't it? The obsessed agonize over it, while President-elect Obama carries on quietly, and will decide one way or another soon. Will he go with the 79% of Democrats, or the 12%?


http://www.gallup.com/poll/112012/Most-Americans-Back-Idea-Clinton-Secretary-State.aspx

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You are perhaps unaware, Dowd recently wrote a column endorsing the idea of Hillary for SoS?

Don't get me wrong. Dowd can generally go pee up a rope, as far as I'm concerned. Just sayin'.

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So Dowd is multi-skilled!? Kewl!

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no one polled me!!
.. I am a Dem, tired of Clinton drama!!

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Before Hillary Clinton can become Secretary of State, the Obama administration is insisting on a number of conditions which might include:
1.Bill Clinton providing a complete list of all donors to his foundation and presidential library which he reportedly is now doing.
2. Both Bill and Hillary Clinton agreeing that no private financial dealings or other personal interactions with foreign leaders will take place unless specifically authorized by the US government.
3. Once announced as President Elect Obamaโ€™s choice for Secretary of State and before her Senate confirmation, Hillary Clinton would certainly present her vision and goals for her new job and clearly indicate her readiness to serve the US government as Secretary of State under President Obama without any conflict of interest whatsoever.
If both Bill and Hillary Clinton are truly interested in complying with whatever requirements the Obama administration considers necessary for the job, it would seem that Hillary Clinton can and will become the Secretary of State. If that is not the case she should withdraw her name from consideration.

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So which guy at the sandwich shop down the street was the source.

With all due respect, take a vacation. There is obviously not enough news to report.

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People like Greg, by their breathless reporting citing "unnamed" sources are actually her chances of becoming sos.

Since I am rooting for ABC (anyone but clinton) for SOS, I say, you go, Greg.

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...are actually "hurting" her chances

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Wow. If I keep hearing the GOP talking point of Obama choosing people who worked in the Clinton administration not being change on every stations, I'm gonna frickin' explode.

For anyone that needs to know what Obama meant by change just go to his convention speech as he lays out his plan for change. He starts with "That's the promise we need to keep. That's the change we need right now. So let me spell out exactly what that change would mean if I am President."

Full transcript HERE.

No where in there did he mention not picking people who've served under other presidents.

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Coleman ahead by 136 with 46% of the vote

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Did any of you see the Sarah Palin video with the turkey beheading as a backdrop, christ sake, how insensitive can she get?

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She must still have the same advance staff from the campaign.

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Isn't that the truth? Even if it didn't bother her, it shows how truly clueless she is about anyone but Sarah.

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I just noticed it is posted at Huff. But I couldn't actually watch the video... (thanks for the warning there) :shiver:

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She was warned, according to CNN about the shot and chose to go ahead anyway. BTW Coleman ahead by only 136 with 46% of the vote in...

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I suspect (seriously) she fully knowingly did so because she thought that that way the national media would pick it up. Attention is everything for her, no matter what. Things around her slowing down after the interview frenzy right after the election, plus after God closed another door to Washington... heck, no surprise if she already starts feeling desperate!

I think we will keep hearing her constantly shouting for attention from the north the next four years... yuck.

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Just announced on CNN that Hill will be announced as the person for the job after Thanksgiving. Also Sec of the Tres should be announced at the LASTEST before Wednesday.

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Um, who told CNN? Seriously...

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Great, Chris Matthews can rant for another two weeks then. So ridiculous.

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What you say was announced on CNNN is false.

The statement was IT was ON TRACK for an announcement of SOS AFTER thanksgiving.

Which means only that, whatever needs to be processed will not permit an announcement until after TG...so folks can stop speculating.

Generally, in high level positions, it is courtesy to inform those who did not get the position FIRST before the announcement of the selection is made.

Clinton drama though curtails all the niceties.

I do not want this to go through. This past week with all this drama is just too much already. I don't like how the Clintons operate via the media.

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I am guessing you have never heard of the phrase "crossing the T's and dotting the I's". It's a formality now they are satisfied with what Bill has given and it is very close to being a done deal. This media circus really soured me on this pick but I guess we will have to see how things go.

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Yawn! These drama queen moments are so boring and deja vu by now. Please tell whoever is giving you the Clinton's talking points that the public is not amused anymore. Our country is in serious trouble. The last thing we need at this time is another temper tantrum from Mrs. Clinton. And for that reason, I hope Obama does not offer her the position of secretary at the State Department. Our government has been ran by children long enough. She needs a nap or time out or an ice cream. Since you seem to be so close to Hillary, please make sure she gets her.


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Greg, you seem to be participating in passing on precisely the sort of spinning you claimed earlier was not occurring.

The key phrases here appear to be "much if not all" and "holding pattern". I take that that the Obama team has asked for various pieces of information, and the Clintons have not provided all of the information that they were asked to provide.

As far as the Obama team would be concerned, then, the ball is still in Clinton's court. And if the remaining information is not forthcoming, they may not be comfortable in offering the position to Clinton. At this point, if Obama were to decide not to offer the Secretary of State position to HRC, he would seemingly be justified in doing so, because he didn't get all the vetting information he needed.

So in an attempt to preempt that possibility, the Clinton team - or at least people close to them - have decided to spin the failure to provide everything as an agreement or a "concession" to provided "most if not all", suggesting that what they haven't provided should be regarded as no big deal. They then say they are in a "holding pattern", waiting on Obama, meaning that in their view, the ball is now in Obama's court. Of course, Team Obama surely regards the ball as still being in the Clinton court until they get everything they asked for. So this seems like a preemptive move to shift the pressure to Obama and push him into making an offer, despite his not having all the information he needs.

I have an idea: How about if the Clintons just provide all of the information Obama has asked for? Is there some reason to believe that what has been requested is unreasonable?

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Get your hands ready for some wringing...this thing is happening.

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I wouldn't offer it to her. Not because she isn't qualified, but because Team Clinton can't keep their mouths shut. We don't need hopeless leakers at State. It could cost the lives of lots of Americans.

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You start censoring comments and you will kill this community.

You don't censor me = I'll never come back. I am livid.

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Wait. We're censoring comments now?

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I imagine that's what the "Report Abuse" link is for, and trust me, it's a long time coming. But I'd imagined that it would be used for spam comments or for stuff that would be of the alert-the-feds sort. Not for mildly inflammatory political speech. At least, not after all the overtly racist trolls we had over the course of this entire deal. Little late to start censoring speech now.

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But I'd imagined that it would be used for spam comments or for stuff that would be of the alert-the-feds sort.

That's what I thought and, frankly, that's the way moderation/"report abuse" should be used. I was reading here for quite a while before started posting myself, and I've always thought people posting here regularly demonstrated they fully know where the line is and are pretty good at policing themselves.

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I'm with you on that. Censorship has no place here. If someone thinks the comment is over the line, moderator or otherwise, then reply to the post.

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I didn't report you but I'm glad some people did. The abusive and foul mouthed tena is one of several people I wrote off months ago as not worth dialoging with. I'd be very happy if you didn't come back and the people you and the rest of the abusive people like you chased away during the primaries came back.

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I didn't even see the comment in question before it was deleted, I only ended up reading this thread because I "followed" Andrew Golis here. I don't even know if it was fair or not. But don't care, that's because I have gotten into the habit of ignoring most Election Central comments threads ever since the foul-mouthed chattering and bullying gang took over this turf about 10 months ago. I'm used to ignoring them now, and the dashboard function gives you a tool to spend time with those of like tastes, so I even care less, it's just that the gang threat to management below was too good to pass up. :-) I'd love to know what Josh's strongest fans, the one's that email him with tips, think of what the Election Central "community" has become. Maybe they like it, who knows.

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To be fair, the "gang" is just one person (claiming to speak for many) who was, to me, just going for funny. I did not take it as a serious threat in any manner. I believe it was more meant as a statement of solidarity.

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(laughs) I followed you here. The dashboard is great. I only read the comments on these threads when I read the original post. I don't come back to keep up with the conversation. I saw Tena's original comment then. Tena is one who didn't seem to be able to comment during the primary without using what Ben calls, "colorful vocabulary. I don't mind some occasional profanity but she used f$$k so often it seemed abusive to those she replied to so I started to skip her comments months ago.

It was the threat to management that moved me to weigh in though. It was really over the top and caused me to think there might be some reason to express my opinion.

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Hey, on the topic of "interesting things I learned from my dashboard," an hour or so ago, I saw one of the current TPM Book Club contributors recommend Lila Shapiro's "Report Abuse" thread. Sure would be nice if some of the people invited for book clubs here felt that the conversation level was grown up enough around here within comments that they felt comfortable enough to participate once in a while after they finish a book club. Ya, I know, dream on. :-)

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Get over yourself, Oceankat. I'm *still* waiting for an apology from you.

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Thank goodness I can tune into the MN Senate recount. It might keep me from going crazy with all the non-news flyin' around.

I suppose this is growing pains for TPM. Maybe you got a bad case of MSM Virus? Let's see, unnamed sources, censoring views that don't fit unstated standards, Yep. Those are some of the symptoms.

Mess with Tena and the rest of us just might hack this site and turn it into Pong.

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Mess with Tena and the rest of us just might hack this site and turn it into Pong.

Posted by MotoCrat
November 21, 2008 8:27 AM | Reply | Permalink

Cute, the gang finally reveals its true thug colors:
an actual threat of vandalism to site owners.

Not censored yet....

I think if management knows what's good for them, they won't censor that threat, but repost it more prominently so all users have a chance to interpret what the gang really thinks of this site.

Here's how I read it: the little Election Central gang surrounding Tena thinks it has an inalienable civil right to not just inhabit, bur actually "rule" this turf? And threats of vandalism are an appropriate response if they feel their "rights" have been impinged?

Just because the gang attached a lot of mindless minute-to-minute chatter in the form of short comments to election posts during the primary, a considerable amount of it abusive in nature? The management should realize the high value of that abusive chatter because it attracts more abusive chatterers? The Crips and Bloods would understand, completely.

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P.S. You do realize that this is just a friggin' interactive website, right? Just saying' in case you have PTSD-related difficulties in discerning realities and take my metaphors the wrong way.

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If you click on the "Terms of Use" link at the bottom of the page, you will see that posters here agree not to use "vulgar" or "obscene" language. Some people have violated this clause on a regular basis, punctuating their comments with curses. And yesterday someone used male and female anatomical references to refer to Bill and Hillary Clinton.
If the owners of this site wish to maintain a certain level of decorum, so that all people can feel comfortable here, they have every right.

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Just to be clear, my comment was not in response to artappraiser. Euphemisms are not vulgar or obscene.

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Oye, so now we need to separate ourselves into those that are comfy with profanity and those that aren't?

Jeezus, Democrats are always lookign for a way to further slice up their coalition.

Really, why can't someone use some colorful language when they get excited? If it goes too far, "we know it when we see it", as the SCOTUS says. To have some all seeing eye stepping in will have a chilling effect on this community far greater than whatever chilling effect is created by all those mean and nasty things said at EC.

Just my opinion. Feel free to delete it.

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The thing is that although "we know it when we see it", we "see it" very differently. I'll admit that Tena's choice of words often makes me cringe, even though I usually agree with her. Others have no problem with her language.

I see no problem in management asking Tena to use moderation with her colorful choice of words, as long as they are consistent. Tena, of course, is equally free to tell them to shove it and either leave or force them to moderate/ban her. I also see no problem in management allowing Tena to use her colorful vocabulary, and to reserve their moderation for more serious cases. The key is to be consistent. I will not say that they're not being consistent as I see this enforcement as a new thing. Time will tell if they are being consistent.

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It isn't possible to be consistent because there are insufficiencies in understand from one moderator to another. As example, what defintion of "discrimination" will be used? Subjective? That defined in law? Something wholly individual with the particular moderator?

What is "combative language"? Disagreeing with someone? To what degree? Or is it instead "intensity" of disagreement?

So a strongly worded objective statement is moderated as "combative" -- but a personal attack goes unchallenged?

Standards must be objective -- but I've yet to see, over decades, a system of moderation which was conducted in accordance with objective standards.

Whenever moderation starts balance -- objectivity -- invariably goes out the window. Misunderstandings explode, and participants either abandon or are banned. I don't know about you, but it immediately gets my back up to have those who don't know standards determine what is acceptable and what not based upon . . . who knows what.

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It's most definitely a minefield. Of course, so far, we've seen two levels of "reprimand": being asked by mgmt to tone it down, and actually having text redacted. The third level is banning.

When it comes to being asked to tone it down, I'm willing to put up with a lot more subjectivity, but the moderator who makes that request should still be able to defend the request.

When it comes to having text redacted, the requirements had better be more objective (it's impossible, IMO, to make them completely objective). A list of words deemed too offensive can be kept by mgmt (these don't necessarily need to be shared with us, however, as that would invite playing games with those words), and a specific set of guidelines as to what constitutes abuse/stalking should be drawn up. Again, these guidelines do not necessarily need to be made public, but they definitely need to exist. Otherwise, as you suggest, subjectivity will be the rule and not the exception.

Banning, IMO, requires the most objective standards as possible. Something like "N warnings that you will get banned [for something rising to or exceeding the level of redaction] or doing X, Y, or Z" where X, Y, or Z are particularly heinous.

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Wowsers, no foul language allowed on TPM?! You gotta be kidding me. It amazes me how delicate some of you people apparently are. I'm appalled, as I really had a different understanding of this "community." I had no idea.

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