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Senate Staffers Begin Mulling Health Care Reform As Part Of Stimulus Package [UPDATED WITH CORRECTION]

Correction: Our source is now telling us that he thinks he misrepresented what happened in the meeting when he spoke to us. He conferred with several others who were in the meeting and says he's now convinced that the idea that was floated wasn't wrapping health care reform into a stimulus package; rather, he says, the conversation touched on the benefits of discussing health care reform as an economic stimulus. So the Kennedy staffers, he says, didn't signal interest in including health care in a stimulus package, as he originally thought. He -- and we -- regret the error.

This is interesting: I'm told that Dem Senate staffers involved in planning health care reform are starting to mull an interesting solution: Paying for reform as part of the big economic stimulus package that the lame-duck Congress is debating.

In a private meeting this afternoon between staffers on Ted Kennedy's Health Committee and major health care reform advocates, the idea was brought up and taken seriously by the staffers, according to a person who was present.

The discussions are preliminary and the details are murky. But the fact that this idea is now bubbling up on the Senate staff level is significant, because it's one that has mostly been confined to academic circles and is only just starting to nudge out into the public eye. It's an idea that would likely command strong support from advocates.

The focus of the meeting was not this topic -- it was convened so advocates could push the Kennedy operation to hew to the principles of Obama's plan as it mulls health care solutions -- but the staffers took the idea very seriously, the participant says.

The staffers even suggested that the advocates -- a who's who of influentials from the labor and lobbying community -- go out and try to sell the idea preliminarily to the public.

"The Kennedy staff really liked the idea," the participant says. "They said, `Go out and make that popular.'"

The general idea -- again, this is very preliminary -- is that a stimulus package of $300 billion or more, which is being suggested in some quarters, would be very hard to spend. So around $150 billion of it could go to health care reform, perhaps in the form of a big tax credit to employers covering employees for the first time, among other things.

The basic concept is that spending now to boost the economy -- and spending on health care reform -- would get our money double value. Economist Dean Baker has a good piece explaining the idea right here. More as we learn it.

Late Update: Here's a statement sent over by someone else familiar with the meeting who denies that it happened that way:

Participants discussed health care reform as an economic stimulus but NOT as part of an economic stimulus package. There was no suggestion that anyone go out and make anything popular, and in fact, there was nothing in today's conversation that could even have been interpreted as such.

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I like it.

I also think any bailout of the auto industry should be tied to new fuel economy standards and alternative powered cars. Make them spend the money to retool that Detroit has been resisting for the past 40 years.

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Second'd!

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Yep. If we are going to bail out the automakers, and ease their employee health care burden, let's insist they make green cars.

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It is truly shocking to consider how out of touch the US auto industry is with what consumers want.

I've been noticing the E85 badge on more vehicles, lately. What a debacle. I'm pretty sure the E85 deal was just a concession to allow the continued manufacture of SUVs.

I worry that the drastic drop in gasoline prices will distract from the real problems.

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Great Idea!

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3rd

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But wait!! Weren't we supposed to be worrying that President O wouldn't be moving quickly enough on healthcare??

Oh, yeah, that was earlier today. . .

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That was so two hours ago....


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Get with the times Michigoose.../snark

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That's all I was reading earlier. LOL!

Never has so much news been made out of so little information.

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"never has so much news been made out of so little information."


Thank you, Tena.

Some people need a time out. Especially over at Kos. I swear, there is going to be an "we need to impeach Obama" diary over there soon. The revolutionary fervor among some of the posters over there is a little bit scary.

Time for some "doobie snacks" for all I'd say.

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With gas prices now about $2/gallon lower than at their peak this summer, they should consider adding a 50 cent per gallon gas tax to pay for this. Gas would still be $1.50 cheaper than it was six months ago, and the tax would generate about $70M per year. It would have the added benefit of heading off sharply increased consumption.

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I think that's a really bad idea right now.

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Tena: I think we hit the submit on that one almost at the same time...LOL!!!

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Hmmm.  Dunno.  A gas-tax hike would be good at some point.  Compared to other countries, it's almost zero here.

Now?  I can see mbf's point.  It's an unusual opportunity.  Dunno if it could be done without putting a damper on things.  Maybe if the revenues were plowed back into people's pockets some other way?

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It would be great for keeping the pressure on conservation and as an incentive for alternative energy, but with a recession it just looks bad. I know it sounds like Bush economics, but we should focus on incentives for alternative energy right now and not taxing gas.

Once the economic indicators are up a bit, maybe then we could implement a gas price floor (aka Friedman's new book Hot, Flat and Crowded) to keep things moving. What we need is a stable market that will keep money, research, and implementation into alternative energy flowing.

(sigh, my point put economics over polar bears, ecosystem collapse, and Katrina--but if we wreck the economy because of environmental regulation, the backlash will keep environ. reg. from even happening)

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Are you serious? You want gas tax middle class and lower middle class in this economy? Not gonna happen. How long do you think gas prices will remain near $2 anyways?

We have to accept we will further go into deficit before we start recovering. One area perhaps we can reduce spending immediately is defense and/or Iraq.

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Most of uninsured are lower- and middle-income people, so they get a net gain here. This is really a tax shift rather than a tax increase - the whole should be revenue neutral. People are still going to see a $1.50/gallon reduction from what the price was six months ago. If ever there was a time for a gas tax increase, this is it.

Actually, I think they should increase the gas tax by $1 and use the other half of the money to offset a payroll tax reduction. Another tax shift - not a tax increase. In both cases, the net effect is to make the tax system more progressive.

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I don't care if it's still $1.50 lower than it was a month ago. A. There is no guarantee it will stay low; B. everyone would go wild hating this.

You do not tax basic commodities in an economy like this - it is the worst idea I've heard in months and months.

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Maybe, but a gas tax increase is going to be signicantly more prominent on a day to day basis than a payroll tax cut. Cognitively, they're not going to be the same.

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It would actually generate around 68 Billion in extra revenue a year. Certainly meaningful. That assumes an additional 50 cent tax on a gallon of gas sold at the current consumption rate of around 388 million gallons a day.

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I'd say we ought to think real hard about this.

Is there a possibility that, having cobbled together some kind of tax-break/incentive package aimed at broadening access to health care, we might actually weaken the impetus for going ahead with the sweeping, across-the-board, truly universal health care reform that most of us agree is absolutely necessary?

I mean, let's think ahead to next spring. The new admin is grappling with a range of competing priorities. And naturally the Obama team wants to get everything done. But realistically, we are dealing with a political structure in Washington that has grown so dysfunctional during the Bush years that we cannot feel overly sanguine about bringing it immediately back up to speed -- even taking into account the Emanuel doctrine ("Never let a crisis go to waste") and the president-elect's awe-inspiring ability to multi-track.

I just foresee a danger that people on the Hill might be inclined to think, Okay, we've already addressed health care to some extent, let's turn our attention to energy and Iraq and Afghanistan and the tax package and Russia and Iran and, whoops, this new unforeseen problem that's just popped up, and Part II of the stimulus package and fending off these insane Republican counter-offensives that we can't safely ignore. Let's worry about all this stuff now, and get back to health care when we've stamped out all the brush fires. Only, whoops, now it's autumn, the mid-term elections are only a year out, it's getting a little hard to concentrate, my constituents are getting worried about all this new government spending. Feel me?

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I don't think there's the political will for comprehensive reform of the healthcare system. This is going to have to be solved stepwise. Eventually a true universal system will be only a small step away.

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I think there is a lot of political will for this. I've heard Republicans say that healthcare reform was important and I'm sure that's because they've heard from their constituents.

The devil is in the details. Republicans are against a single-payer system.

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I agree with both of you, Tena and mans_best_friend. There's a lot of political will, but doing this is hard. I do think there's enough will to get a lot done now, so that the transition process will be markedly faster than the decades that it took Canada to get to universal health care.

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I recall Bob Dole in 1993 saying that he thought they needed to do something about healthcare reform. How did that work out? Oh, yeah. Harry and Louise.

Don't kid yourself. The pushback against a big plan will kill it just as it did 15 years ago. Some things just can't be done all at once.

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There's lots of political will. Like ttarleton says, Bold Moves Rule! You say eventually a true universal system will be only a small step away. We can accelerate that with some creativity and backbone. Obi-wan-obama has plenty of both.

Let's act like winners! Seize this moment. Who knows? We may build some really incredible momentum and make some fantastic things happen!

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I agree. More importantly I think more than the majority of the electorate is with the Dems on healthcare.

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I think there's likely broad support for healthcare reform in the abstract, but I think it would be a major mistake to tie it to the bailout.

Deal with it on its own. Any other way just makes it look as if it could never pass by itself, and weakens any solution in the long-term.

This is just the sort of "clever" bs that the Republicans are looking for - it gives them an opening for attack.

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I disagree. Obama proposed a very clear comprehensive health care reform plan and he won the election handily. Most Democrats running for Congress proposed or suppported comparable plans and they handily increased their majority. There is a mandate for this and action should be taken ASAP.

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Bold moves rule - let's go!

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Turning legislative strategy on its head would further bury the Republican nay-sayers strategy of saying No like Ted Stevens.

The thing is HC Reform is a process towards Universal HC. But getting it off the snide will do well and putting it into a stimulus that the GOP will have to decide to either be Hooverites or pragmatic politicos.

No cultural things here either except Socialism, but wait isn't owning AIG, Investment Banks and GM socialism....no that is corporate welfare....

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Single-payer, shmingle-payer, the only healthcare reform that will work in the long run is providing incentives and rewards for preventive medicine and lifestyle changes. Which goes back to issues with consumption of various kinds. Want to see people's health improve dramatically by the millions while drastically reducing gasoline use? Subsidize sales of that 3-wheeler moped I saw a few minutes ago and figure out a way to offer MORE rewards if you use the pedal part of the moped on a regular basis.

Seriously, outside-the-box thinking is called for here, folks, and while I doubt if this particular idea what sell, its the *kind* of idea that has to be implemented or we're, well, just spinning our wheels.

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Bullshit.

That's getting into lifestyle issues that the government has no fucking business getting into. Pretty soon, anyone who doesn't toe the line can't get coverage.

No fucking way. No how no way.

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ah, so government insurance programs shouldn't offer discounts to non-smokers?

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BTW, Obama has already explicitly mentioned promoting prevention/health as part of his comprehensive health care package in order to save money, so you somehow missed a core feature of his proposal.

Look up Natural Law Party platform concerning health care for where he may have gotten certain ideas.

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There's already significant intrusions into lifestyle. Even my employer can make peeing in a cup a condition of employment.

You want a non-intrusive pro-health impact?
Don't permit new building and/or developments without sidewalks.
More than 90% of the recent construction in my area has been completely bereft of sidewalks.
So nobody walks anywhere, except the enthusiasts.
I cringe every time I see new parents pushing the double-wide stroller around a blind curve ...

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Breaking News: I'm worried for Biden.

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why?

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Why?

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I'm assuming his meeting with Cheney.

Has there not been a confirmed birdshot free sighting of Biden since the meeting?

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As long as Biden didn't leave with a newly outfitted pace-maker what's there to worry?

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Well d'uh.

Because he's going into the mouth of hell and sharing a meal with Satan?

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Sorry didn't mean to create a question. Thought it was obvious Biden-the nicest guy being left alone with Dick.

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Breaking: He will be fine. He's tough enough.

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What is it that i am hearing about Hillary Clinton for the Secretary of State. I don't think i like this idea at all.

Is this true? I'd rather preffer John Kerry for the Secretary of State or Bill Richardson. I just don't trust people in Hillary land. They leak too much.

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Ahem. I see no one has learned a damn thing about paying attention to leaks and wild ideas about the cabinet.

;)

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Andrea Mitchell reported, on World , that her source indicates Hillary being vetted for the Secretary of state position. Hillary was seen flying to Chicago today.

The question is for what?

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Gbenga:

If Infact Hillary Clinton does become SoS. What's the big deal? She is as competent as any one of the list and she is super disciplined.


She will not be my first choice either, but I'll not worry too much.

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I'd rather want Hillary championing the healthcare bill rather than Secretary of State. The drama of Clinton's family is just too much for me to bear.

The Clinton’s team leak like a broken pike. I don't think she is that discipline, especially when it comes to her staffs that have this sense of entitlement.

I'd rather want to see John Kerry or Bill Richardson. Please leave Hillary in the Senate. I don't want another Clinton-Palin drama for the next 4 years.
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No, the question is this: should we believe what MSM is saying about what's coming out of the Obama campaign?

No.

There's a vacuum, they're trying to fill it. Yesterday it was all about Nunn and Christopher.

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Exactly. I think most of us are trying to fill a vacuum the campaign season had left behind.

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It's akin to the Day After the Carnival, or worse, Strike Day on the stage set.

It was far worse in previous cycles. Today, we have the nicotine patches of Palin's Parsimony, unseated Senators, an unseated Cabinet, a vacuous president with Senioritis, all driven into the veins at the speed of the InterTubes.

'Nother hit?

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I was thinking today that an automaker bailout should take the form of the government leveraging an employee takeover of Ford and GM by converting the companies' pension obligations into some sort of convertible stock which give current shareholders one third of voting shares, the union and retirees one third, and other debt holders the final third. Dividends on the third owned by current shareholders would be suspended for three years, and then could only be paid out based on automakers percentage of vehicles sold that were hybrids, electrics, fuel-cell-powered, and cars that run on 100% biofuels, until such a point as those were the only kinds of cars the company sold.

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It drives me crazy (too bad psychiatric care isn't included in my high-risk pool coverage) every time I read that we can't afford health insurance reform because of the recession. Au contraire - we can't afford NOT to build this long delayed part of our social safety net.

In our consumer-driven economy lack of confidence leads in a straight line to a deeper recession. Health insurance reform to provide universal access will greatly ease the economic insecurity of millions of Americans.

Health insurance reform is also critical to our economic health, to the extent that we as a nation devote an excessive share of GDP to health care. It is not purely altruistic - if it were no politician would bother with it. Reform can build in incentives for preventative care, as well as reduce administrative costs, and hopefully deliver higher care at lower costs, as other developed nations have experienced.

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I totally co-sign your comment - and it's a really good comment; thank you.

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ot: where have you been?

(or have I just been on at the wrong times?)

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Co-co-sign.

Get it down now, any way, any how.

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the more health care reform gets talked about, fleshed out, debated, the better. I don't know if a comprehensive plan can be part of a stimulus package, but the more congress and the executive talk about it, the more a bill starts to take shape, gets picked apart, etc, the more chance it has of actually happening......keep it in the conversation.

and, tying any auto bailout to clean cars is a no-brainer.

and, I am just so happy that all of this is in our national conversatiobn. and will continue to be.

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Wait, just to make sure I understand:

The idea being floated is to extend large tax credits to employers providing health coverage for the first time.

I'm a partner in a small ($5+ mil per year gross) business that has provided high quality health care coverage for our employees for fifteen years, because it's the right thing to do. Of course, our competitors who didn't do so -- and there were many -- had a competitive advantage over us. Now they get a new competitive advantage: large tax credits for coming late to the party, tax credits we won't get.

And . . . this is fair because?

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It's not "fair." But if you've been in business for 15 years while retaining what I consider high honorable principles, you cannot be entirely dim...

Put another way, successful businesses waste zero time actually worrying about "competitors," as these exist mostly in the mind.

If you provide quality goods & services (15 years you say? 2 business cycles!), your unique craftsmanship is your chief concern, and what ultimately forms the core of your continued success. The key word here is unique.

And where can a body get a job application at your Nirvana, Inc., with its fairy-tale bennies?

Pax,
M.

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How is it you think you know anything about this guy's business (a.) and (b.) how is it you think you know anything about business period if you think "'successful businesses waste zero time actually worrying about "competitors,' as these exist mostly in the mind."?
Yikes.

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How is it you think you know anything

Where to start? 13+ billions of years of evolution? On a mission from gaaad? My Fantastic and Amazing Physchadellic Powers of Karnak?

Pick any reason that makes you happy, though that seems unlikley, and veering quickly into improbable.

My clients are certainly happy & profitable, and that's all that matters.

Smootches,
M.

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I suppose it's possible that you have no competition. Every business I've ever been inside of was pretty aware of its competitive environment. But I am glad you are doing well.

I still wonder why you think you know enough to proclaim what this guy should be thinking about in his business.

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*BREAKING....
MSNBC is reporting the possibility of Sec of State Hillary Clinton. K.O. reports HRC was in Chicago today. #2 is Bill Richardson, and #3 is Tom Daschle.

A rare leak from camp Obama, which makes one wonders if the word "leak" is also something on the change bloc...

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Sheesh, I'd have voted for her if she hadn't been one of the leading enablers of Bush's disasterous foreign policy.

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The latino groups have been pushing Richardson for SS. Hillary wont be pick this is Richardson's to loose.

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It's bizarre. I think it's misdirection or a trial balloon at best. Did he have greater policy disputes with her in the primary than on foreign policy?

I guess it must be all that Kearns-Goodwin they've been reading. But doesn't the subordination problem come up just as much with State as it would have with VP?

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Yup i agree with you. Hillary in any cabinet position in the BO administration would bring problems with it.

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I'd rather want Hillary championing the healthcare bill rather than Secretary of State. The drama of Clinton's family is just too much for me to bear.

The Clinton’s team leak like a broken pike. I don't think she is that discipline, especially when it comes to her staffs that have this sense of entitlement.

I'd rather want to see John Kerry or Richardson. Please leave Hillary in the Senate. I don't want another Clinton-Palin drama for the next 4 years.

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I have a hard time seeing giving up a Senate seat for a Cabinet post...

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If Hillary wants it it's very likely that she already has it (GE deal-making). I don't mind Hillary in this role because A]Barack Obama is the President and she'd be working for him (meaning she couldn't try any power plays because he could remove her)- this was my main beef with her as potential VP, because Obama would have been stuck with her if she tried any power plays. B]I think she could be pretty effective at it (as long as she accepts the Obama Administrations FP guide lines and not her neo-con tough talking. This hardass talk might suit her well in the role now though because folks will know what counsel she'd be giving Obama, and she'd have the gravitas of the Clinton name.

I wouldn't like it because I believe Bill sold future influence when he was "giving speeches" for big money and sitting on the Clinton Library donor list.

Also with many Clintonites finding roles in the Obama White House will there be any issue there. Will they be able to see her as the SOS and not First Lady.

I could see Hillary wanting this role for the reason that she has always had designs on the White House and was using her Senate seat as a stepping stone. With Presidential plans put on hold for at least eight years (at which point she'd be 68yo), she might want a more active role. I think she could be a real asset and strong voice in the Senate, but it all depends on what she wants.

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Bill Clinton has too much favor to pay back. All his shady dealings are likely to comeback to hunt.

I just don't trust the Clintons.

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This time, I'm inclined to think the leak is real.  I think she'd be a very good choice.

Would she take it?  I'm sure she's tempted.  I'd guess she prolly would, but the health-care thing might make her reluctant.  It'll be interesting to wait and watch.

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A huge question remains around the reason for this from Obama's perspective. If this is true, I wonder if a major shock awaits us in terms of a braod-spectrum unity cabinet. Including Hillary after already proving she was not needed as veep to win to my mind signals a radical "Team of Rivals" strategy. If the Hillary move pans out, look for more three or more Republicans in the cabinet, and if 60 Senators is off the table, Lieberman as well.

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One way to look at this strategy if I am right about a hard-core Team of Rivals: Obama may see nothing but downside for the entire first term: Iraq withdrawal (framed as retreat by Repugs); Afghamistan/Pakistan bottoming out at best; possible multi-year recession/depression; have to talk to Iran at some point or look like you were bluffing; etc. etc. etc. He may want to keep as many possible rival power centers as close to all those tough propositions as possible through the first term and surround himself with basically the entire political spectrum to insulate himself for 2012. Then if he wins he can really put his stamp on things in term two.

Just a thought.

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A theory I've been kicking around - Biden only serves one term and Hillary is the VP on the ticket for 2012. Hillary as SOS will give her real world international experience for the VP job. I could see Biden then moving on to SOS, the job he wanted in the first place (if he couldn't be President).

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Whoa, the switcheroo!

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They wouldn't even have to wait the whole first term to do the switch.

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Hmmm.  I wonder if the result in the AK Senate race will be clear enough for Mark Begich to caucus with the Dems this Tuesday.

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Thinking about this last night, if the news that Hillary Clinton may become Obama's SoS is accurate, this puts a whole new spin on Max Baucus' entry into the healthcare policy area the other day. Obama is going to need a powerful and influential pointman to shepherd healthcare legislation through the Senate. One that can work across the aisle, and will have Kennedy's back if he gets too sick to lead the way.

Everyone, including me, has figured that this point person would be Hillary. After all, this is the one issue that she's personally been closest to for almost 2 decades now. But if she leaves the Senate to join an Obama administration, Max Baucus is perfect for this role. He's got friends on both sides of the aisle, has a history of bipartisanship (much to some of our annoyance at times), and as head of the Senate Finance Committee, he's in the best possible position to ensure that legislation doesn't get derailed in the Senate.

I'm still not convinced that Hillary would join an Obama administration, but it sure is a hell of a puzzle piece that fits in with other pieces as this things starts to take shape.

Color me intrigued. And impressed if this thing comes to pass. If Obama's not careful, I'm going to start expecting big things from him. :)

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Baucus is taking the point on healthcare because if Hillary puts her name on it, it's dead on arrival. Even if it it's exactly the same plan:

Baucus plan=new and serious
Hillarycare=shrieking wingnuts


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Total Cosign

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Why would health care reform require more money?
The US is already spending 16% of the GDP 2.3 trillion $ on health care. growth rate is 2x inflation (7%). and projected to reach 20% of GDP in 2016. In most western-European countries it's 10%. Why think about spending more money on it, rather than CUTTING spending and still maintain adequate care. The United States spends six times more per capita on the administration of the health care system than Western European nations. Here's the obvious place to CUT spending. Create simple universal standards. And please, the nurses do NOT need to measure my weight, my temperature, nor my height when I just want a prescription for my allergies. There needs to be open competition. Either the government sets all prices, or I should be able to get a price estimate. I always ask, never get an answer, just that my insurance will pay for it (and who pays the insurance company).

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