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Franken Camp: Don't Start The Recount Yet!

Here's a sign that the Al Franken campaign is nervous about the ramifications of going into a recount trailing your opponent, even if there is the potential for pulling ahead later on.

On a conference call just now with reporters, they called for a stop to tomorrow's initial certification of the vote totals, arguing that rejected absentee ballots must be examined first instead of waiting for the automatic recount period.

"We are seeking that the canvass itself not be finalized until there is a determination of whether or not all these ballots have been counted," said Marc Elias, lead recount attorney for the Franken campaign. Elias then added strongly, "I don't think that they have a vote count to certify."

The key here is that the Franken campaign doesn't want Coleman to go into the recount with the official certification of being any kind of winner, even if it's by the barest of margins. That's because the aura of even a questionable Coleman win can color judgements made about individual ballots during the recount -- and could even have an effect on litigation if the recount works out in Franken's favor, and then Coleman tries to challenge the result in court.


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On a different, I wonder how this race will affect the presidential aspirations of Tim Pawlenty?

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Interestingly, T-paw has expressed public confidence in Mark Ritchie, the Dem sec of state--a clear slam to Coleman's advisors who are trying to turn him into Katherine Harris. I'm sure he has no desire to hinge his political fortunes on a slimeball like Coleman, nor to see his state discredited.

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I really hope Franken pulls through. Honestly, I think Franken's chances are pretty good in the recount.

I think the headline is a little misleading here, though. I don't think the actual post even suggests that Franken is worried he might not catch Coleman.

Though the analysis is certainly correct. Franken wants the least amount of taint possible to how those handling undervotes make their judgments.

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The issue here is how the initial certification as is could potentially prevent Franken from catching up, thanks to further litigation and how the certification could color the ballot-by-ballot judgements of the recount.

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Which makes it an attack on Ritchie and his process. I think Franken is right to call for a complete count before a recount is started, but I think this article tries too hard to spin that into nervousness or fear.

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The issue here is LEGALITY. A CERTIFICATION is an OFFICIAL FINDING.

IF there is an OFFICIAL finding, pre-recount, that Coleman won, it establishes a presumption, and a "finality" which can be exploited later by -- Coleman, as pseudo-legitimate foundation for suit should Franken win as result of the recount.

Ultimately Coleman would lose -- there is abundant elections law precedent and statutory provsions preceeding this election. But his last-straw-grasping is to tear down, undermine, create doubt.

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Franken supporters need to stick to the principle. Voters whose ballots were disqualified should be told and given a chance to rectify the problem. If they shouldn't have been disqualified in the first place, then regardless of whether the law allows problems to be fixed, those votes should count.

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How would anyone know which voters' ballots were disqualified? Nowhere I have voted has my vote been anything but anonymous.

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They're talking about rejected absentee ballots.

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regardless of whether the law allows problems to be fixed . . . .
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Tell that to the 2000 FL Bushit criminal enterprise.

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How did Minnesota turn into Ohio/Florida? Dayum - I really want Al to pull this one out. And I hate it when there's a lot of litigation involved in an election. Never feels right.

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The unfortunate fact is that NO election result is a 100% accurate count of the votes cast, with the exception of small villages that only have a few dozen voters. There is always room for error.

The thing is, most elections aren't close enough for anybody to care about those errors. Even a 51%-49% race, which we think of as a close result, is solid enough. But when they are close enough, all Hell breaks loose.

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No worries~ MN will show FL and everyone else how it is done fairly. I went to college there and know how completely fairness will trump bullshit when the rest of the nation is watching. The reason the entire upper Midwest was solidly for Obama speaks to that same common sense up there. I will be overjoyed when Franken takes the floor in the US Senate and tells the Neanderthal republicans left there what a FACT still is! Read his books if you want to know how he thinks.

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From what I have read, MN is one of the few states with a well though out recount process that attempts to validate every vote possible, according to the intent of the voter.

Of course Franken should push for completion of the initial vote canvass before any certification, for the precise reasons stated by his campaign.

To imply that Franken aides may be getting nervous seems to mirror the typical media attempt to create a false equivalency with the Coleman camp, since we already know they are flailing desperately.

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All Franken's team is doing is establishing a CERTIFIED PAPER TRAIL, and BEING CLEAR that official certification of the initial pre-recount vote result is not final, and therefore not the end of it.

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according to intrade Franken is given a 60% chance of winning this seat so i wouldn't put too much stock in this article

apparently it is assumed he will pick up extra votes around minneap/stpaul which should put him over the top.

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I'm not sure how this race is going to turn out. A week ago, I was confident Franken would pull through, but now I'm concerned that he won't pick up enough votes in the recount. I don't think Franken's camp is as nervous as the MSM purports them to be and I still believe that, if it's found that thousands of eligible voters were purged from the rolls in MN for no viable reason, Franken will win by a fairly large margin. Coleman's camp is running scared, it's just a question of whose team's lawyers are more persuasive now.

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It isn't about persuasive lawyers. It's about statute and case law, and the votes counted.

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Whenever you're behind at this stage in the game there's something to be worried about, but in any case, one can only expect that each side will pull out all the sides. Coleman too is doing whatever he can to shed doubt on any outcome that favors Franken.

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So let's see if I get this..Franken's trying to stall the start of the recount and when he fails to take the lead with this stunt, then what does he look like?

Boy, I can see why Coleman's surviving

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....chances are really good Franken is going to come out ahead after the recount.

Only need one miscounted vote for every 5 precincts (give or take)..... http://www.senateguru.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=382

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No, he's trying to make sure all valid ballots are counted before the race is certified. What if, for example, the Supreme Court were to intervene and stop the recount, awarding the election to the certified winner (not that such a ridiculous thing would ever take place)?

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I think Franken knows he has this in the bag- thus the more cautious approach now. He only has to pick up an average of one vote out of every 5 precincts, or some such (not sure of the adjustment as new votes have come in)- yep, one vote. I like the odds.

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Comedy strong, Al!

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From MSNBC "First Read"---

A MN state official claims that the voting machines are 99.9% accurate. If true, the remaining 0.1% margin of error would be about 15 times more than the 206 votes that currently separate Franken and Coleman.

That alone is reason enough for the Franken campaign to have filed today's brief.

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Not exactly. That's the purpose of the recount - to correct the small machine errors.

If I understand this correctly, the absentee ballots in question were rejected for other reasons, and if the rejection stands, those would not be included in the recount. That's why he's fighting to have them included before the certification.

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Thanks for the clarification.
BTW, the recount begins on Wednesday.

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Not if Franken is successful in delaying the certification.

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Fingers crossed.

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Those rejected ballots can be included in the recount. Hennepin County (Minneapolis) rebuffed the Franken camp's efforts to include the ballots, but didn't decide the issue on the merits of those ballots. Instead, they decided that the recount period was the more appropriate time to look at the issue.

I assume other counties that have rejected the Franken camp's motions have done so on similar logic as Hennepin.

You are correct, however, in pointing out the risk of a later court overturning the recount and awarding the election to the initial certified winner. I honestly have no idea how likely that would be, but it is definitely a plausible scenario.

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And lets not forget, Coleman's a crook.

And he's going to drag his wife down with him when that TX/MN manure hits the turboprop.

Shades of the California Doolittles!

One might assume that Norm could have taken this opportunity to gracefully remove himself and maintiain his dignity and maybe his and his wife's freedom.

But grace and dignity seem to be two factors Coleman hasn't needed for quite some time.

I'm no Wellstone bitterhead, but it would do a lot of Minnesota Democrats hearts good to see the Colemans and the Minnesota Republicans have to answer for their Texas-funded mischief.

(Truthseeker, if you are reading this, that last paragraph was an example of the kind of subtle multi-issue linkage I was telling you O'Rielly is addicted to...)

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why can't democrats accept it when they lose. franken is a sore loserman.

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why can't democrats accept it when they lose.

Why canโ€™t Republicans accept and follow the law?

This election is very close. The difference between Coleman and Franken is .007%, which is about 70 time closer than is required by state law for an automatic recount.

Yet, Coleman urged Franken to concede and waive the recount, and after failing to do that has been trying to discredit the recount process, which is widely accepted as one of the best in the country.

I expect that after the recount, if Sen. Coleman is still ahead, Franken will graciously concede. If the reverse is true, I expect Sen. Coleman to complain and try to get the result overturned in court. Then we can ask why Republicans canโ€™t accept it when they lose.

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norm coleman is very honorable. a good man. he will accept the outcome since victory is his. you don't hear him demeaning women with off color jokes. nor does he dick around in the men's room at the airport. he is not that kind of republican.

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No, Coleman just funnels money through his wife illegally, has businessman buy his clothes illegally, gets cheap rent from a lobbyist who's house he lives in- in DC, holds no oversight on his committess, was a rubber stamp for Bush, cheats on his wife, hits his wife, and his father was caught with a prostitute in a parking lot in St. Paul. Great guy, his Dad really raised him right!

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nor does he (Coleman) dick around in the men's room at the airport. he is not that kind of republican.

So now the low bar for our expectations of Republican senators is "I'm not Larry Craig"?

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Since when has demeaning women been a Republican concern as something to be opposed?

And since when is "I'm not Larry Craig" but "I am a Republican" a qualification for office?

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In Florida, the way incomplete or otherwise invalidated ballots are "rectified" is that AFTER the election, the Boards of Elections mail back the ballots & tell the (non)voters what they did wrong. The vote doesn't count but the voter gets a nice "better luck next time, chump" consolation letter. And this was a reform!

Here's hoping Minnesota has a more equitable system & Franken can force its implementation. Both sides should definitely get a look at all absentee ballots deemed insufficient -- after all, the folks who decide a ballot is insufficient are usually not the top paygrade, all due respect intended.

The Constant Weader at www.RealityChex.com

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There were absentee ballots rejected; no one knows who would have received those votes unless and until they were counted. In a case that I witnessed and another one I heard about, the ballots were refused at the precinct polls because there is a 3:00 p.m. election day deadline which applies to absentee ballots--although regular voters had until 8:00 pm to vote. That 3 pm deadline may be one of the reasons votes were rejected; other reasons are also plausible. It is a technicality, but it works against accepting the ballots and I don't expect Mr. Franken's lawyers can prevail on this point! It is the same as if you got to the polls at one minute after 8 pm. You don't get to vote.

I don't know why there is optimism about Franken's chances. 206 votes is a tiny percentage but it is still a huge number of votes to reverse. Undervotes are as likely to go to Coleman or Barkley as to Franken. Previous recounts even with really tight margins have tended to go to the initial leaders. As Backstrom and Stinett's book about the 1962 MN governor's race noted, Rolvaag the eventual winner WAS ahead after the first canvass---but then Andersen's people re-opened some precincts in order to claim a lead for their guy. In that case the State Supreme Court (by a party-line vote) let them do it. Since Republicans still dominate on the State court, I doubt they will accept a similar stunt by Franken. The arguments about "expectations" and "subtle bias" have no legal merit that I can see.

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at least his father wasn't in the mens room when he got caught. coleman is definitely better than larry craig and he is still a senator. i think.

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ya know, I can't figure out if you're a really good snark or a really bad troll...

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it was wellstone's fault for having the partisan funeral. coleman is going to win forever because of that

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The partisan funeral myth is annoying. It was manufactured by the right-wingers to piss on somebody's legacy and memory. The end of this reign of bullshit is here and sweet poetic justice will be Senator Franken's.

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Hey 'avatar formerly known...', at least now we know it's not a really good snark.

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it was wellstone's fault for having the partisan funeral

Yah, he was kicking himself afterward about that.

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you be the troll who calls a troll a troll ,troll!

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So let's see if I get this...

Coleman's a taint?

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president bush was trying to reach out to dems still sore about gore coming up short when wellstone staged his funeral. it just struck an off note with the iraq war coming and all. unpatriotic and petty. minnesota remembers the ugliness and that is why they have chosen coleman again.

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Dude your history is BULLSHIT! Wellstone did not STAGE his funeral ..... he was dead asshole! The right-wing spin machine went into action immediately after the funeral to try to taint it by suggesting that a few right wingers were "offended" that anyone dare mention anything about social justice at the funeral of a man who devoted his life to social justice. The idea was to take a close race by generating the famous faux outrage the right wing is so practiced at. Petty and unpatriotic and ugly is when you are invited to attend a funeral and you go home bitching too many liberals actually were there to remember a liberal hero. Fuck republicans! Absolutely nothing is sacred to them except money and power.

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Questionable move to call for a delay. If I was a recount poll worker whose work could be "colored" by a Coleman "lead" then I could just as easily by "colored" by a Franken stunt to wreck my holidays (as well as those of his own recount challengers) with an unnecessary delay. Earth to Franken team: people have lives out here! Have you ever heard of multitasking?

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