Franken Camp Claims Race Still Narrowing, Accuses Coleman Of Recount Shenanigans
Is Al Franken actually gaining on Norm Coleman from the recount? That's what the Franken campaign just argued in a reporters' briefing -- and they accuse the Coleman campaign of gaming the system to cover it up.
The public numbers from the Star Tribune show Coleman's lead expanding, but the Franken camp says those numbers don't do justice to the real story. They say the Coleman camp is launching frivolous challenges of recounted ballots that ought go to Franken, taking them out of the count for now until the state canvassing board gets a look at them.
"It allows the Coleman campaign to keep an artificially-high margin in the recount, simply by issuing more challenges," said lead Franken recount lawyer Marc Elias.
The Franken campaign thinks it has an idea of what the numbers will eventually look like based on the opinions of the election workers at the individual sites where the challenges are made -- as opposed to the current status quo of a challenged ballot being taken out of the total entirely, pending review by the canvass board.
"The margin remains in double digits," Elias said. "In fact, the margin has narrowed since we were last together on Friday."
At any rate, this race won't be settled until mid-December at the earliest, assuming there isn't any further litigation after the canvassing board is done. So it's only going to get worse before it gets better.
Sounds about right, that's the sleazy Coleman we on the left know in MN.
"So it's only going to get worse before it gets better." -- Greg.
Yep, that sounds about right too.
November 24, 2008 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
D'oh! Quote above by Eric. Apologies.
November 24, 2008 6:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
But in the latest stats I saw, Coleman and Franken had lodged almost the same number of challenges (I think Coleman had 18 more than Franken - each with about 1000). If that is accurate, then Franken's argument doesn't seem to make sense. Also, the latest Minneapolis Star Tribue stats show Coleman back to a lead over 200 votes.
November 24, 2008 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Update. Coleman actually has about 150 challenges more than Franken and leads in the vote by 202 votes. All of this with 71% of the vote counted. Far too close to make any prediction.
November 24, 2008 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Further update. Of the counties who have yet to start a recount, all of them went for Coleman (whatever the hell that means)
November 24, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, but what if almost ALL Coleman challenges are frivolous, and almost ALL Franken challenges are legitimate?
Is it so hard to believe that Franken is a decent guy, who wants to do things honestly and as well as possible, for the good of all....
and that Coleman is kinda the opposite of that?
Is it so preposterous to think that one side might be following the rules, playing fair, and the other side is basically doing every dirty trick they can? The last 8 years hold the truth.
November 25, 2008 9:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure, at this point, most MNs would not mind not having a Senator representing their great state. This is just not looking good.
November 24, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
This Minnesotan is more than happy to wait as the democratic process runs its course. I have complete and total confidence in our election process and the people working within it.
What citizen would give up representation because they are too impatient to wait a couple weeks. That makes absolutely no sense!
Lastly this recount will give us a very good read on how accurate the optical scan voting machines, that we use, are. In this sense its a good thing.
November 24, 2008 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Huh?
November 25, 2008 9:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Second.
Huh?
November 25, 2008 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I grew up in MN now live in WI
Torn. Root for Vikes, tho
November 25, 2008 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Time to certify the Nate Silver numbers http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/projection-franken-to-win-recount-by-27.html and get on with welcoming "Landslide Franken" to the Senate.
November 24, 2008 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to side with Franken here. Franken's argument sounds exactly like what Nate Silver was describing when he predicted a final win by Franken by 27 votes.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/11/projection-franken-to-win-recount-by-27.html
November 24, 2008 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, Nate Silver is wrong. No way Franken wins by more than 20.
November 24, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
The big question is whether people who voted absentee, whose ballots were improperly rejected, will ever get their ballots counted:
=============================================
If the hand recount of ballots to determine a winner in the U.S. Senate race has Minnesotans edgy, pity poor Robert Marvin.
The Roseville man was too ill to risk a long wait in line on Election Day, so he dutifully filled out an absentee ballot, only to discover Thursday that his vote never got counted.
Now his wife, Ruby Marvin, is hopping mad. "Oh for cripes' sake," she said when a Star Tribune reporter told her that election officials said her husband's ballot had been rejected because he wasn't properly registered.
"We've lived here for five years and voted in every election," she said.
http://www.startribune.com/politics/state/34853669.html
==========================================
November 24, 2008 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey Greg:
Big news...
Reports: Top Adviser Susan Rice To Be Obama's UN Ambassador
November 24, 2008 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, Eric!
November 24, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the day does anyone know what happens if at all this ends up in a tie? If ever there was race that could, this is it.
November 24, 2008 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
My comment below as for you kash.
November 24, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. There's a log-rolling contest on the St. Croix River in Stillwater followed by a dogsled race from Ely to International Falls. The final event is a "Constitution Bee" held at the XCel Energy Center in St. Paul.
November 24, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
So it favors Coleman?
November 24, 2008 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Only if chewing is allowed in the log rolling contest.
November 24, 2008 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nope. Coleman's no lumberjack-dogsledder. Al was born here. He knows how to do all that stuff. Norm is a carpetbagger. If the tie-breaker was about sleaze and manipulation, Al wouldn't have a chance.
Norm puts on a flannel shirt, he looks like a complete dork. Al wears the flannel with authenticity.
November 24, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I kinda knew some of it from other posts, but not as much as you do. For sure, Coleman couldn't win the "Bee" constest if all else fails.
I was just trying to be sarcastic- though unsuccessfully.
November 24, 2008 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Article 1 Section 5 or the constitution "Each House shall be the Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members". Doesn't even have to end in a tie for one or the other to ask the Senate to decide who gets the seat. I believe the Senate even has a committee for this. If this is very close, with more disputed votes that the margin of victory, I think the Senate will ultimately decide.
November 24, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
To break the tie, officials get to dunk a tie-to-a-chair Michele Bachmann underwater for five minutes and if she survives, and being a witch she most certainly would, then Coleman wins.
;-)
November 24, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would risk a Franken defeat just to witness the events you describe.
November 24, 2008 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
heh
November 24, 2008 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about this? Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, and Norm Coleman square off against Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, and Al Franken in a Texas Cage Match Mud Wrestling Extravaganza!
November 24, 2008 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even better Al gets to hunt down Palin in a moose suit. If Palin survives moose..err..Al looses.
November 24, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
The better sentence would be:
Al in a moose suit gets to hunt down Palin. If Palin survives Al looses.
November 24, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you really want to see Pelosi is a leotard?
Really?
November 24, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nate Silver of 538.com is predicting Franken will win by 27 votes. Silver's accuracy during general election was impressive, so let's hope he's right again.
November 24, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought it was a joke to say Nate Silver was going Franken at 27 but then I read his odds analysis and ....... I'll take it!
Even for Mr. #s Man to say for whatever reason the count tilts to another Democrat is great for all of us. I am looking forward to having a very smart very ballsy very mouthy Liberal in the Senate to keep the very dumb very cynical very mouthy Neanderthals afraid of the simple truth slapping them round their heads. Go ahead Senator Southern P. Bullshit .... go ahead and say something smarmy to Al. Make my day!
November 24, 2008 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
The count is firmly in lawyer land now. Lawyer land has two principles; 1) when the facts are on your side scream about the facts, 2) when they are not, create every sort of diversion, legal tactic, delay, contest every fine point and hope you wear down the opposition's factual advantage.
By contesting any hiccup, they force another stage to win or lose and create an opportunity to appeal and move this to another venue.
Heck this big stuff here....6 years of power in the Senate....2 years of a possible super majority...and six years of irrelevance where a friggin comedian will have a national stage. Franken's success could harbor others like Jon Stewart to run for NY Senate or Steven Corbert to run in SC? What would stop Lou Dobbs or Chris Matthews (oh he is running) or even God-Forbid Keith Obermann who is now being used in the same vein as Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid in GOP hate mail.
So be prepared for a fight, and they want it to go to the SCOTUS where they have prevailed before...it is about winning and the saying goes....it is not how many voters you get to the polls, it is how many votes are counted.
November 25, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink