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Does Obama's Statement Help Or Hurt Lieberman?

So what's the significance of the statement we obtained from the Obama transition team saying that Obama holds "no grudges" against Joe Lieberman and won't take a position on whether Lieberman should be ousted as chair of the Homeland Security committee?

My take: By taking no position, Obama is in effect throwing the decision over to Senator Harry Reid, making it possible for the Senate to take action against Lieberman. But his statement -- paradoxically -- could also give cover to those who want to do nothing about him, making it easier for him to hang on to the post.

First, a bit of opinion from around the web: Steve Benen says that the statement is "deliberately vague," throwing the decision over to "the caucus and its leadership." Glenn Greenwald argues more broadly that the decision properly belongs to the Senate, and not Obama, in any case.

And Jane Hamsher notes that Senate leaders Dick Durbin and Chuck Schumer may have privately signaled that they want Lieberman given the push, which could bode ill for him.

But John Aravosis argues that it shows Obama is "still making nice" to Joe and fuels the meta-message that Dems "don't like to fight." And MyDD's Josh Orton points out that Obama's statement, by including the line about not holding "grudges," helps Lieberman frame the argument as one that's all about retribution against poor old Joe.

It's probably not worth getting into a discussion about Obama's motives. I agree that Obama is right not to publicly dictate to the Senate what it should do, and this does signal to the Senators that they're free to jettison Lieberman. That said, the practical impact of Obama's statement could be to make life easier for those who want to do nothing here. It could allow the faint of heart to say, "hey, Obama isn't holding any grudges, so no need for us to punish Joe. Our leader has spoken."

The point is that while it's true that Joe's fate now lies in the hands of his fellow Senators, more noise may now have to be made to get them to act on it.

Late Update: Markos says that the statement doesn't help Lieberman at all.


119 Comments

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Make it stop.

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we think this is an important story

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It's an important story, but distortions are unwarranted.

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It may be an important story, but is it really worthy of 4 - 5 updated posts per day? Honestly, this is driving much of your readership insane.

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Honestly, this is driving much of your readership insane.

Not as much as watching Tweety for twenty minutes!

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..."driving the readership insane" ...not a far trip!

Lieberman has NOT done any investigating as Chair.
Ergo he must GO!

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You know, no one's forcing you to read the posts. If it's driving you insane, you can easily skip the ones with "Lieberman" in the title.

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That would pretty much leave only one or two to read....

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The short version is he is incompetent as HomeSec chairman.

JOE NEEDS TO GO. P E R I O D.

keep him in the caucus. Haha call his bluff to go to the Rethugs (Buh-bye next election). We'll have either 67 or 68 seats(if Al wins it in Minnesota, as it is now looking). A deal will have to be made with 2-3 Rethugs to stop the endless filibusters.

Honestly, we should be spending this time on plotting loser Reid's replacement as Majority Leader than on Loser Joe. +1 for Joe just for wasting our time. :(

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There might be other transition news to cover, but the Obama team is too tight-lipped to allow for much decent coverage. Sources aren't talking much about the other stories.

I'd rather read about this important transition story than read reams of groundless speculation about Cabinet appointments.

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It is.

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I happen to think it's an important story, as well, and without coverage, would probably sink below the radar, and Joe might have been allowed to continue on in his chairmanship.

That being said, doesn't all this attention just give more weight to Lieberman?

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Make it stop? Greg's right here! How Obama traverses the space between being a Senator and being President (and particularly how he massages the Congress) ultimately foretells the relationship his Whitehouse will have with Congress.

That and what the hell else are we going to blog about? It's not like these stinkin' Senate races are generating 50pt headlines at the moment...

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I guess it's hard for all of us to downshift out of the adrenaline-fueled pace and passion of the campaigns and elections, but just like everything else in life politics has an ebb and flow. Personally I welcome a break from white-knuckle urgency. I think it's a state we have been urged into more and more in the last 8 years under an administration that saw fight-or-flight fear and urgency as essential tools in ramming through its agenda and diverting attention from its crimes. I'm looking to Obama as an example of a more reflective but still powerful and decisive state of being. Constant urgency/emergency can be as much of a destructive and addictive trap as any drug.

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I agree, to some extent, that it's time to take a step back and cool down, for lack of a better description, but the problem right now is that the Dem Caucus is meeting in one week.

If people are opposed to Lieberman as chairman of any committee, much less Homeland Security, well, they have to start expressing that opinion to their Democratic Senators NOW. If this story weren't being covered in such detail, no one would appreciate how near the deadline is for this issue.

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Firedoglake has a tool to help you do it.

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Thanks. I've already written and called, and will continue.

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I'm on board too. NOT bored.

Personally I want to see Wholly Joe publicly pilloried, but I'm very interested in how Obama shifts to an Executive Branch stance (and this is clearly part of it). He's doing it quickly and more transparently than I've ever seen a candidate handle it. Very cool.

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Greenwald rarely misses the boat, but this is the case.

Yes, it's an "inside Senate" issue. BUT... in that case, Obama has/had no need to make a statement. Just let what's playing out play out at a low simmer.

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Isn't there plenty of speculation to be done on Obama's new dog?? Get with it, TPM!!

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Greg, You guys sound like amatuers. Just because someone finally emailed you from the Obama camp stating: "they don't want to be a refree" you come to an assertion Obama is letting Lieberman off the hook?

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By the way, it's a trend where your "take" recalibrates after you miss the moment.

Go back and read the lines from your last thread

The move is all but certain to take the steam out of any efforts to dislodge Lieberman from the committee

That was your take five minutes back and sounded like misinterpretation.

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Thanks for your reply on the other thread, kash.  Yep, bombarding those tea leaves with too high of dose of X-rays can make 'em disintegrate before revealing their secrets!

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No Problem. JZap.

I hear a lot of "Is Obama a wuss?" narrative on this story and it's an attempt to push an agenda from Obama quarters because Reid is sterile and dysfunctional.

The last time I heard we wanted President to stay away from Senate appointments and removals. Last time I heard we didn't want a President to be a refree.

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Referee, you mean...

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It hurts...lol...TY

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Cutter's comments are the first on-the-record indication of Obama's position...

Greg got a scoop!  Careful, Greg.  Don't let it go to your head!

"We aren't going to referee decisions about who should or should not be a committee chair."

A careful parsing of that sentence -- what does referee mean? -- gives no indication as to whether BigO does or will support or oppose LieberSchmuck's committee chair, either publically or privately.

The golden quote in hand seems to turn to dust upon close inspection.

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Man, this is way too much tea-leaf reading for my tastes.

Just let me know when Lieberman gets kicked out of his HomeSec chairmanship.

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Dem caucus meeting on Tuesday next week, I think.

This is from memory.  Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.

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Next Tuesday is correct, according to Howard Fineman last night on Countdown.

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Oh, and if there's gonna be a caucus vote on LieberSchmuck's committee chair, it will be a secret ballot.

What effect that'll have is beyond my reckoning.

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Glenn Greenwald argues more broadly that the decision properly belongs to the Senate, and not Obama, in any case.

Yes. For years we've had a Congress do what the President wanted. This issue, with respect to Lieberman, is a Senate issue. If the Dems are so freaking spineless that they're waiting for Obama to take the lead on what is, first and foremost, a SENATE issue, then shame on them.

If, on the other hand, Dems feel that Lieberman would be just A-OK in continuing as chair of Homeland Security Committee, then they're not just spineless, they're despicable.

Either way, this is a Senate issue. Not a presidential issue. Call, e-mail, or write to your Democratic Senators and insist that Lieberman be stripped of his chairmanship.

And I think Orton is off-base. If the Dems strip Joe of his chairmanship, what's his complaint going to be? President-elect Obama had nothing to do with it.

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Sorry to pile on, but this is just stupid. Joe should/will lose his leadership position, you don't get away with implying our President-elect could be a Marxist, and I believe he will be allowed to stay in the caucus. And frankly, I am sick to death of hearing about this joke of a person and seeing his face.

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Correction: Chairmanship

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Co-sign.

Ya know, how could this statement "We'd be happy to have Sen. Lieberman caucus with the Democrats. We don't hold any grudges" possibly mean Obama lets Liebersuck off the hook? Seriously?

All it means is "We'd welcome him if he wants to stay in the Dem caucus," i.e., "it's up to you (and nothing more is negotiable if you ask me)".

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As I argued in several places last night, Obama is actually providing the political leverage here to get Lieberman out of the committee chairmanship. By graciously accepting Lieberman's remaining in the caucus, even in the face of scurrilous betrayal, he has put Lieberman in the position of either recognizing that magnanimity by graciously accepting a demotion from the chairmanship in return for the invitation to stay in the caucus, or holding out stubbornly and arrogantly for everything - in which case it clearly won't be Obama's fault if the Dems dump him, and he will be seen as getting what he deserves. Obama has now established himself as the gracious and forgiving party, and the ball is in Lieberman's court.

And of course the outcome will be framed as an act of retribution. People expect retribution against Lieberman. Even Democrats' opponents expect retribution. Anything less will be seen as ridiculously weak and undisciplined. The question is just over what mix of magnanimity and retribution will be handed out. Obama has it just right. Declining to offer an opinion on the committee chairmanship is in effect an Obama pocket veto of the committee chairmanship. Lieberman is out.

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I think Obama should just stay out of this fight, and I think you've characterized, nicely, just why he is, in effect, staying out of the fight.

The problem, however, is this:

if the Dems dump him, isn't it?

Will they, in fact, dump Joe, absent a clear signal from President-elect Obama? The Senate is such a pathologically clubby atmosphere that I have some doubts about whether they'll actually push Joe out of the chair position.

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Ding, ding, ding!

No more Lieberposts until we get some new news, please.

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"We have reached the point where everything has been said, but not everyone has said it." Mo Udall
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Obama doesn't have power over the Senate. Really nothing else he can (or should) say here.

Personally, I hope they strip his Chairmanship and put the ball in his court. If he wants to be a brat and leave, let him.

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The point is that while it's true that Joe's fate now lies in the hands of his fellow Senators, more noise may now have to be made to get them to act on it.

Yep, that's the point -- in my mind your headliner should have beenL: "What would it mean if the Senate Caucus let's him keep his chairmanship?" -- esp. when we all know the power that comes with it.

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I think Obama's statement was simply a bone thrown to bloggers to give them something to write about now that the election is over.

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can someone straighten me out here? i understand lieberman to have 3 committee assignments:

homeland security
armed services
environment and public works

wouldn't it be most important to get him out of armed services -- i know he's not chairman, but he's close to it, seniority-wise. seems this committee is where he does the most damage.

and if FEMA was re-removed from DHS, traitor joe can keep his fearmongering little committee until CT gets rid of him in '12.


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Well, that being said, throw the scumbag out.

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The committee he chairs is Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. That means it's the committee charged with oversight of the executive branch. Steve Benen explains why it's such a colossally bad idea to have Lieberman, who used his position to block any meaningful Senate investigation of Bush Administration scandals, remaining in a position to instigate investigations of the Obama Administration. Getting him out of that chair should be a top priority; make the call.

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So you mean he will help hold Obama accountable if he runs afoul of the law and/or his campaign promises. Lieberman is in charge of accountability in the executive? How does that make you feel, Kash?

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and Governmental Affairs

oh, that's actually quite different. i was wondering where i got the idea that loserman's neglect as chair stood in sorry comparison to waxman in the house. yeah,

lack of oversight regarding war profiteering is enough to kick him to the curb on that one. really, what do we have to lose?

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There sure is a lot of stink around Joe. That he did nothing to challenge Dubya is deeply disturbing. He is impeachable. I see Lieberman as supremely arrogant. He alone knows how best to decide things. The Dems can't tell him, but neither can the Reich. He ran as an independent, he has acted as an independent. It's time to let him experience real independence. Cut him loose.

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The way I understand it is the Chairmanship is the "big one" to kick him out of- since he has oversight with the role. Oversight he has done nothing with. The other comm.'s he is on are to keep him in the caucus and to keep his vote by placating him. Whether we want to placate him is the issue. Personally, I understand the politics here and believe we should kick him off the Chairmanship and let him keep his other comm. roles. We may need his vote someday and this will prevent him from running to the Republicans, but also stick it to him by taking his comm. chairmanship.

However, my gut says to kick him out of the caucus and off all of his committees, but I'm trying to keep that in check. Not easy with this sleazoid.

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The concern with Homeland Security is that that committee also has oversight responsibility for the executive branch. While Bush was in office, JL refused to exercise that right a la Waxman. The thought is that he will not exercise similar restraint with President Obama.

Remove or don't remove him, but all of this public jocking is getting to be too much.

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Obama does NOT have the power over the Senate to make that decision nor should he. He is not Mr. All Powerful.

Obama let it be known that he wants Senators to vote on their own decision rather than as vindication for what Lieberman did to Obama. We know this becaue Obama said that he holds no grudges thus he is letting Senators know they can vote on their own.

Obama won't be there to vote.

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But, more importantly, what does Biden think, since he's going to be in charge of the Senate. Right?

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LOL!!!

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So true, he leads the Senate, discusses future policy and directs them on what is next on the agenda.

Really, for the all the Africa is a country comments, the VP one was priceless.

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Personally, I think the "we don't hold grudges" comment is not just a magnanimous gesture to Lieberman, but that it's also meant (and perhaps mainly meant) to send a message to (other) 'Publicans who might want to sign on to Obama's programs. I.e., Obama's saying "Yeah, you might have criticized me during the campaign, but hey, we all know that's just politics. We can still work together."

But what do I know? I'm just sitting here in my cat's basement in my pj's...

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Your cat has a basement? Did it buy the house on a sub-prime deal?

Hidden cause of housing market collapse:
Mortgage lenders no longer accept mice or moles as payment.

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Well my parents live way up north, and apparently we in teh blogosphere don't own our own houses... so I figure, it must be my cat's house, and he just lets me live here for the food (and the opposable thumbs that are so helpful in liberating said food from its metal prison).

It possibly could be my dogs' house too, but they sure don't act like owners. The cat does, although he's a benevolent dictator. And thank Bast, it's paid off, so the bank's new "no mice" policy doesn't affect him.

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Nice kitty! Don't let him see this picture:
http://www.oliver.sohota.com/images/sniper.jpg

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I agree w/ Markos. Obama is not getting his hands dirty but also isn't calling for him to keep his chair positions.

This is all on Reid now.

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Long time?

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I've been around...lurking. ;-)

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Good to see you. Missed you. Congratulations on Obama 44. LOL.

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It's all so incredible. It still feels like a dream.

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This is so easy. Obama was basically saying I am out of it, you guys take care of him. And they will, I am most certain. Maybe before they vote, they should watch Obama taking him over to a corner of the senate chamber and having words with him. That is the real Obama speaking.

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And they will, I am most certain

Obama should stay out of this, regardless, but I have to say I do not have the confidence you have in our Democratic Senators.

Particularly if it's a secret ballot.

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If they do not get him out of the chair, they shoudl not be surprised when he takes asction vs. Obama. Why they think he would not defies reason. Lieberman will need to send one over the bow to ensure everyone understands how important he is.

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Joe Lieberman has done what, exactly, for the Democratic Party as a member of the Senate? Anybody? He helped Al Gore carry __________, in 2000? Recount? And he made sure Connecticutt stayed in the Democratic column after 2006 by honoring the voters in the Democratic _______
election? He repaid ____________ who campaigned for him in 2006 by supporting _____________ for President in 2008. He demonstrated his clout by helping John McCain carry what state in 2008?
Anybody? Bueller?

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What I hear is that Senator Obama is not seeking retribution for himself. He is neutral, either way. The issue is not doing any of this 'for' Senator Obama. The issue is that a senator who has been embraced in the democratic caucus although he is an independent has behaved terribly, demonstrated poor judgment and low character during the election. And as many have pointed out, he was not doing a great job of being a committee chair.
Add to that his completely childish attempt at manipulation by saying he would caucus if he did not retain his chairmanship. Sick. Immature and stupid. Hardly helping himself by acting so ignorantly.
This ignorant threat says more about his lack of devotion to serving the people of his state or staying true to himself than anything else could. He absolutely should not be a leader in the senate. There are far more worthy senators of greater character and better skill than Senator Lieberman.

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That is 'he would caucus with the republicans if he did not get his way'.

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Late Update:  Markos says that the statement doesn't help Lieberman at all.

That's because the statement doesn't say anything at all.

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LOL...I know what you mean.

Rich Analysis.

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thinkprogress:

Last summer, Brave New Films delivered a petition with 43,000 signatures to congressional leadership with the message, “Lieberman must go.” Today, the project released a new film emphasizing that Lieberman is no progressive.
Watch it:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/11/lieberman-must-go-2/

Brave New Films: Strip Lieberman of his gavel

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Senate races # 58, 59 and 60 are still running. If we should happen to win them all, which Nate Silver says is still possible, it would be quite helpful to the domestic Obama agenda if we hadn't already blown it. For Pete sake, have we forgotten that the senate republicans used the fillibuster to block EVERYTHING for the past two years? We've waited decades for healthcare. Do we have to wait centuries? How about if we at least demonstrate enough self control to wait until the votes have been counted?

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Would Lieberman really stand with Democrats to end Republican fillibusters? We have as much chance getting Snowe and Collins to cross party lines to end a Republican fillibuster as we have of getting Joe Lieberman to stay on our side. There is nothing magically powerful about the 60 number. We don't live in a country with a lockstep partisan legislature.

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Yup, I think Josh made a similar point, IIRC.

Liebersuck saying he'd consider caucusing with the Repugs if he got stripped of the chairmanship says it all. He's essentially declared he fucking doesn't care about Democratic principles. He'd not be a sure vote for us.

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Democratic principles have long since fallen by the wayside for him. Joe Lieberman cares about only one thing: Joe Lieberman.

(Oh, and Israel. Okay, so two things.)

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Lieberman's relevance to the Democratic caucus ends at 51. A cloture vote needs 2/3 on any given issue and does not necessarily begin or end on party lines. Obama, by not asking Dems to throw him under the bus has done all he needs to do. If Lieberman does not help bust a filibuster on any issue he can not blame Obama's "revenge" for his vote with a Republican filibuster. Now it is in the hands of the Senate Democrats. One of them surely could use that chairmanship I would think.

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Sorry. I meant 3/5, not 2/3. And if that is a problem, we can trot out the old Trent Lott, Bill Frist playbook. The Senate is, after all, a relic of Bristish colonial organization. Kind of like Iraq.

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One of them surely could use that chairmanship I would think.

Let's see. Who's on that committee?

Democrat Republican
Joseph I. Lieberman Chairman (ID) (CT) Susan M. Collins Ranking Member (ME)

Carl Levin (MI) Ted Stevens (AK)

Daniel K. Akaka (HI) George V. Voinovich (OH)

Thomas R. Carper (DE) Norm Coleman (MN)

Mark L. Pryor (AR) Tom Coburn (OK)

Mary L. Landrieu (LA) Pete V. Domenici (NM)

Barack Obama (IL) John Warner (VA)

Claire McCaskill (MO) John E. Sununu (NH)

Jon Tester (MT)

I'm guessing Carl Levin might be interested.


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We'll only have to wait till NEXT Nov.

Filly-buster away I say.....

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OT FYI: Just don't expect mircles:

"...Sen. Charles Schumer (N.Y.), a member of Senate Democratic leadership and a key Hillary Clinton ally who also sits on the Finance Committee, said he is “not sure we have the big plan on healthcare.”

Dems hedge on healthcare
Congressional Democrats are backing away from healthcare reform promises made by their two presidential candidates, saying that even if their party controls the White House and Congress, sweeping change will be difficult.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/dems-hedge-on-healthcare-2008-04-23.html


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If Lieberman keeps his chairmanship, I'm switching my registration back to "independent" immediately.

Democrats are such weaklings. "Maybe if I take him back one more time, he'll be different!" Pathetic.

It's impossible to respect men who don't respect themselves.

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Switching back? Sounds like you put vaseline in your pen instead of ink just like Joe did when you signed on to the Democratic side.

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Yep, switching back. Guess why the Dems won this year? Winning independent people to the party.

And if the Dems turn out to be a bunch of weak-kneed sissies who can't face down a Joe Lieberman, I'm going back. Because I'll have no respect for the Dem establishement. And they'll have to try to win over guys like me all over again next time. Pretty stupid of them, I think.

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You sound pretty independent already.
Nothing wrong with that.

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There are two issues: 1) Should Lieberman be allowed to caucus with the Democrats and 2) should he be allowed to keep his important committee chairmanship. Regarding issue 1) LBJ said it best: better to have him in the tent p****ing out that outside the tent p***ing in. Allowing Lieberman to caucus with the Democrats can make the party look magnanimous with little risk. Regarding issue 2) Under no circumstances should Lieberman keep his committee chairmanship. Leadership roles should be reserved for actual members of the majority party in good standing. There is nothing remotely punitive about insisting upon it. Lieberman lost any claim to an exception from this norm with his support of McCain in 2008.

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http://www.alternet.org/election08/106033/election_day%3A_palin%27s_panic_and_the_right-wing%27s_big_freak-out_/

Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) expressed his deep concern for the future of the country today, saying in so many words that a Democratic majority in Congress will destroy America. From Think Progress:

... Lieberman made clear that he firmly opposes Democrats gaining 60 seats in the Senate, saying that the survival of the country is in doubt if Democrats break the filibuster threshold:

BECK: But do you agree that Senator Hatch said to me that if we don't at least have the firewall of the filibuster in the Senate that in many ways America will not survive?

LIEBERMAN: Well, I hope it's not like that, but I fear.

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But hey, it's not like this issue is important, is it?

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Another demonstration of what an ignorant man Lieberman is. He is not worthy of a leadership role in the senate.

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O is just being a statesman, Reid can be the guy to take Joe's chairmanship.

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How soon before this disgusting human Lieberman,turn & campaign against Harry Reid or any Dem Sen cuz he finds friendship in some g.o.p scum running against Reid or any other Dem Sen, even after holding chairmanship of the HS-committe ?

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What's Obama supposed to say-hang him from the highest yard-arm?
They clarified yesterday's leak/signal that they want him in the caucus (common sense) by passing the final decision onto the Senate, who will hopefully strip him of the HS comittee, at least.

And if they're clarifying publicly, why would anyone believe that they're not sending more specific signals, through Biden and others, of what specific action they want taken, i.e., keep him in the caucus, demoted but close.

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Okay. Obama has spoken. It's just one voice, though an important one. The issue is not about Obama's feelings either. The issue is about party discipline and party development. It's about whether the party can afford to send a signal to the membership that they can do anything to hurt the party without having to worry about being penalized. It's about whether it's fair to give a committee leadership position to someone who is hostile to --- not just disagrees with --- the party during an election, a position that party members have worked very hard to secure. It's about whether it makes strategic sense from the perspective of party development to continue to let someone who is not exactly a member to occupy a Senate leadership position when the party has at least a few equally qualified Senators who can take the position and would love to gain that precious experience.

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Obama is just keeping his enemies close.

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It's not Obama's role to take a public position on every personnel issue before the Senate Democratic Caucus.

Reid should stick to his prior position, and this development furthers the possibility that he will.

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I personally don't care how it's done or who does it but Joe has got to go. He campaigned for McCain/Palin. He called Obama unAmerican. His performance in HS has been poor. What more do they need to cut this guy loose.

Why reward bad, incompetent behavior?

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ama is just keeping his enemies close.
Posted by GTFOOH

Why? So they can stab him in the back quicker?

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Obama is reasserting the idea that there are THREE branches of government, and that each branch has its own responsibilities. He is also asserting that the President is NOT a partisan, and that governing in general, is not partisan. He is also signaling to Reid to lead.

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WHat happens if Joe decides to investigate Obama?

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It may be more difficult to do, since there are going to be more Democrats on that committee. Lieberman, if chair, will have a megaphone to talk to the media about investigating Obama, even if the committee doesn't immediately go along. A megaphone to crusade against the Obama presidency.

Joe would never do that, you say?

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That could be part of a backroom deal to keep him there. But I think the tide has turned against Joe. The Dems won't kick him out, they'll just offer him something he can refuse.

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Please keep me in power so I can stab you deeper in the back. If Dems fall for this, we have no hope.

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WaPo:
Obama Supports Keeping Lieberman in Democratic Caucus

Lieberman faces a crucial Nov. 18 meeting of Senate Democrats at which he is expected to plead his case for retaining the chairmanship of the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, which has wide oversight of the executive branch. Many Democrats have privately suggested that Lieberman should surrender the post even if that risks him crossing the aisle to caucus with Republicans, in part because Democrats padded their majority in the Senate by gaining at least six seats in last week's election.

I didn't know that Lieberman would have a chance to "plead his case". I'd love to see that on TV.

Say no to Joe, Senate Democrats!

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I believe Obama said something nice because Dodd brought him into the mix. Now Obama has spoken and they can kick him out! I hope. I am tired of that ultimate WATB.

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-- fuels the meta-message that Dems "don't like to fight." --

But Obama considers politics a full contact sport, elbows and all. So if the Senate doesn't like to fight, that's something else. Really, framing it as "like to" is the problem. "Willing and able to" is what counts.


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He should be removed from his committee chair positions not because he needs to be punished, but because he doesn't support the party platform planks for which his committee is responsible. Democrats control the Senate. Those people who support the platform should be chairing the committees. Move him to a committee where his views are aligned with the party. Then you're not putting politics before progress.

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Regular Joe:
So True. Senators need to know how much we HATE Traitor Joe. Just kick him out. Be done with this cockroach. I just wrote Christopher Keating of the Hartford Courant and told him he needs to write a column about how Americans hate Traitor Joe. ckeating@courant.com. Will send an update if a story is pending, we need to keep up the pressure. We will lose respect for our Democratic Senators if Lieberman remains chair of Homeland Security.

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I agree with kos. The senators are free to strip the ratfucker of his chairmanship. And they had better. Otherwise there's no accountability.

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But was Obama strong enough? Doesn't seem like he took a position either way.

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I think the Lieberman issue is an important story because it is a test for Harry Reid.

If Reid can't wrangle through this one without the President Elect holding his hand, it should raise serious questions as to whether Senator Dry White Toast is strong enough to carry Obama's agenda through the Senate.

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You list all the Elite blogs that claim to represent the left. They whined and yelled about Obama and FISA, and now they act as if they really know much of anything. Don't encourage these guys.

Maybe Obama is saying just what he is saying. By saying that he holds no grudge he indicates that he has no interest one way or another and won't take sides. He has left it clearly in the hands of the senate where it belongs, and does not want what Joe did to him to be used as a reason to keep or let go Joe.

I think that Obama has it pretty much together and says pretty much what he means to say.

For myself, I would penalize Joe. Not doing so shows party weakness, but that pretty much describes Harry Reid. Why not boot them both to the lower ranks.

The Left leaning Blogs that you list above need to find some humility. They did not win this election, Obama did - and without genuflecting to them. It is going to be pragmatic center-left governance and you all might as well get used to it.

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Blogs 'r' bad? Got a grudge of yer own there, bud?

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Blogs are great, that is why I have one. Being a pompous jerks who deletes comments they do not like, or allows their attack dogs to drown out dissenting ideas, are bad and both Kos and Firedoglake do that.

No one has a monopoly on the truth. They may have a monopoly by closing the room and echoing each other, but that is not real.

If the Elite Liberal Bloggers (ELB) continue to trash Democrats that do not meet their purist - and often delusional - views they will find themselves as out as Republicans are now.

To rule you have to get at least half of the people behind you and like it or not half of the United States in not liberal. A lot of the United States is pretty conservative about some things.

I am very Liberal when it comes to social issues. Moderate to Conservative on Fiscal issues. That is actually how the majority of people are.

Then there is the realities of life that often push solutions to issues that are not always what we would want in a perfect world. We some times have to settle for what we can get to live to fight for another day.

Liberals, and I am talking about my self here too, often are too arrogant, viewing ourselves as somehow better and smarter than others. Some times we have better ideas but do not take the time to help others understand why our ideas are better.

The average person does not have the time to set and contemplate their navel to determine some greater truth. The greater truth for them is they have children to raise and bills to pay. They belong to this Democratic Republic, too. They have the right to be heard, even though they are not well informed.

But Liberals often fail, despite their supposed superiority, to grasp the truth. I was against the War in Iraq from the time it became clear in the August of 2002 that Bush had every intent to go into Iraq. It was clear from all available sources that there were no WMD and no real threat from Saddam. Yet where were the ELB then? As late as 2005, Blogs like Kos were still clinging to the absurd mantra that we broke Iraq and we had to fix it. Well it is the end of the Bush era, we are still in Iraq and it is still broke. We can no more fix it now than we could three years ago, and we can not bring back the near 200 US dead we created by our lack of understanding the basic truth that we can not fix another countries problems.

So, why should I or anyone else listen when these Elite are so often wrong. They were wrong on FISA in the spring of this year. Obama will now be able to revisit that issue once he addresses the real important issues of the Economy and Energy.

Yet the ELB continue to see them selves as uniquely relevant and join to sing choruses of praise to themselves.

I have a written record in the form of a Blog that I can stand by. Since 2005, when I graduated from NewsGroups to a Blog, I have been consistently on target about the war and the economy. I do not get read very often for a number of legitimate reasons, but that should not earn me the disdain of the Elite Liberal Blogs. I was right when I told Firedoglake that the war was more important than the Writers Strike. Does anyone remember the writers strike? The Liberal Elite forgot the soldiers because some whiny writers, who slept safely in their homes each night, wanted a better deal. The Gals at Firedoglake told me that the Soldiers do not fight all the time showing their ignorance of the truth of war.

When over blown egos and arrogance cost lives of troops that might have been brought home years ago if these people had joined their voices and energy to exposing the fraud that this war has been. That might have required some real sacrifice. That might have required listening to voices that challenged the ELB's current orthodoxy.

Now we have a progressive President, and we have to decide if we are going to let him run the country or if we are going to snap at his heels because he does not follow that Liberal Orthodoxy.

The appointment of the Democrat that the ELB love to hate, Rahm Emanuel, as chief of staff, is a clear sign that Obama plans to get things done. Just as in 2006 the Democrats took Congress by electing "Blue Dog" Democrats, Obama will have to compromise to get a lot of what he wants - and what we want - done. That is how things work.

Yep, I have a problem if the past becomes the future and we destroy our chance to make real change because like two-year-olds we can't get our way.

For me I am with Obama and am confident, just as I was in the campaign after the Texas Primary, that given support we will find a better country and world in four years and maybe - hopefully - longer.

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If Joe in campaigning for Palin/McCain spoke out against a 60-seat Democratic majority, how can he be counted on to help cut off a filibuster?

A 58-59 seat majority may be the better solution. At least Reid & Co. would know how to deal with the party of opposition.

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Well, it seems as though Obama had to make a deal with the Israel-First brigade in order to get in. Between Rham in the nest followed by his pretending as though Joe didn't sell out his party and his own integrity. With this writing on the wall, I would guess we will see more of the same lopsided approach to the Palestinians.

Maybe Obama didn't see the video of Joe rolling over to ensure that the '00 election theft was not questioned? Go figure.

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A lot of Israel über alles folks don't trust Obama and going after the Senator from Likud, er, Connecticut, just might be a wrong first step.

I might suggest that the incoming admin. start putting unrelenting pressure on Joe L. to do his f--king oversight jobs.

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Obama publicly warned Lieberman on the Senate floor. Reid met with Lieberman during the campaign and warned him again. Lieberman arrogantly flagged his nose at both of them. He won't keep the chairmanship, the Senate will vote with Reid.

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Debra, you make a good, strong, simple case. I appreciate that. However I think there's an additional factor. The Senate races in AK, MN and GA are not yet completely resolved. I think it likely that the closer we get to the magic 60, the more inclined Dems will be to give Lieberman a break. The value of his vote may eclipse the urge to meaningfully rebuke him.

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Since getting congressional Democrats to work together is sometimes like herding cats, one of the biggest problems Obama may face is getting his agenda through a Congress controlled by his own party. Clinton had this problem.
He needs to let people know that there will be consequences for those who cross him. This is not a good way to start. He could have just refused to comment. "I don't hold grudges" is not likely to make any errant Democrat think twice about going his own way despite what President Obama wants.

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