Voting For Obama Even If You Believe He Was A Terrorist
Ben Smith has just posted a remarkable account offered by a Republican consultant who conducted a midwest focus group on an unreleased adver-sleazement created by an unnamed third party group.
Check out what one white male in his 50s who voted for Dole, Bush, and Kerry had to say about Obama:
"I'm gonna hate him the minute I vote for him. He's gonna be a bad president. But I won't ever vote for another god-damn Republican. I want the government to take over all of Wall Street and bankers and the car companies and Wal-Mart run this county like we used to when Reagan was President."
And even better, check out what one woman who is in her late 50s and is a Clinton-loving Democrat had to say:
"Well, I don't know much about this terrorist group Barack used to be in with that Weather guy but I'm sick of paying for health insurance at work and that's why I'm supporting Barack."
This is a person who actually believes that Obama was in a "terrorist group," and she's still backing Obama.
Relatedly, a remarkable finding in the new New York Times poll: While 64% said they'd heard a lot or some about William Ayers, only nine percent cited it as an association that bothers them.
Given these numbers, it's hard to imagine that McCain will hit Obama over it at the debate tonight. But McCain's in a box: If he doesn't, and if his campaign continues to play the Ayers card, he'll get hit over and over for not being willing to bring him up to Obama directly.
That's incredible, Greg. And I do love the guy who said he'll hate him and he wants the government to take over everything like when Reagan was in office?
Where do these people come from that they have it so mixed up?
Nevermind he's voting for Obama - who cares how he feels about it?
October 15, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's so effn hilarious. What the American voter doesn't know is what makes him the American voter.
George Bush has done more for the progressive cause than anyone in half a century. We really do have to give credit where it's due.
http://pufferfish.typepad.com/
October 15, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
You got that - Bush turned my husband into a straight ticket Democrat.
AT least Mr. Tena got it by 2004 and started voting straight Democratic then - and I doubt he votes for another Repug on a national level again - unless some Repug Savior comes along and that is not going to happen any time soon. They are completely demoralized and I love it and I hope Cheney has one hell of a difficult time in the hospital.
One hell of a difficult time. He cannot leave this earth fast enough for me.
October 15, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like Cheney to cling to life long enough to have to stand on the Capitol steps next to W on that cold day when Barack puts his hand on the Bible.
October 15, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Last night on the Daily Show, the odious Ari Fleischer said that no matter who gets elected, Cheney stays Vice President. "He comes with the place," he insisted. Hope he was joking.
October 15, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's what Deanie Mills reports. And she and her husband are voting in TX too.
October 15, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
See I'm loving that - since I'm not there and looks like I won't be until after the election, I don't really know what is going in Texas - but I figured that Texas wasn't nearly as deep red as it seems and I hope very much we all get a big ass surprise on the 5th.
October 15, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I actually hope he lives long enough to be prosecuted for the crimes he's committed.
October 15, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't hope for anyone to have a difficult time in the hospital for a heart procedure.
How is hoping Cheney has a difficult time in the hospital not different from hoping physical harm comes to Obama, or any other politician?
October 15, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry - I have 0 good hopes wishes and sympathy for Dick Cheney. I hope it is horrible.
Just horrible! Gitmo horrible cause that's only part of what he deserves.
October 15, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it's unacceptable for Republicans to want Obama to be waterboarded, why is it acceptable to want physical harm done to a Republican?
October 15, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because it is Dick Cheney,CT. He's the most evil motherfucker I know of. He's not just a politician or just a Repuglican - he's Dick fucking Cheney!
I'm sorry but there is a huge difference here - I never wished Tony Snow to suffer or anyone else -but Dick fucking Cheney does not pass the human being test with me.
October 15, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Totally co-sign...this is akin to what I've been saying for a while about Rove. I hope the karma boomerang comes back at him hard. I don't typically think this way, but there's little in the way of adversity in life that I wouldn't wish on that loathsome bastard. Ditto for Cheney and Bush. The only complimentary thing I can think of to say about Cheney is that he's not Karl Rove. Meanwhile, Nancy Reagan is hospitalized too. Are the Norns Democrats, as it turns out?
October 15, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seconded. Obama's response to boos yesterday again confirms why he's a bigger man, a better politician and a leader than McCain will ever desire to be ...
October 15, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cheney is directly traceable to the deaths of over 4000 Americans and countless Iraqis. Nuff said.
October 15, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I want him to stay alive and suffer through out his life what we went through in the last 8 years. Death terminates the pain. He does not qualify to die. He only qualifies to suffer.
October 15, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like him incarcerated. For me, that's enough.
October 15, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great quote from Richard Dreyfuss today about the movie W:
Some of the flick's stars actually think that Stone, who also directed "JFK" and "Nixon," wasn't hard enough on Bush.
"It isn't Bush bashing, but it should be," said Richard Dreyfuss, who portrays Vice President Cheney. "He will have a long and healthy life and hopefully spend most of it in depositions. Hopefully, history will be unforgiving."
October 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Easy. Obama hasn't inflicted the pain and punishment on this country the way Cheney has.
October 15, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't tell me "Easy".
Inflicting physical harm on a politician is acceptable because of what that politician did?
Eye for an eye, anyone?
I think Cheney is a war criminal, and should be tried as such. I find people wishing for him to have a "very difficult procedure" to be creepy. Maybe that's my background as an EKG technician influencing me, maybe not.
October 15, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm just telling you why I don't consider it a double standard between wishing ill on Cheney and chastising those who wish ill on Obama. Obama has done nothing to these people. Now, maybe after four to eight years of his presidency, they will have a reason (I obviously doubt it). Cheney has given us plenty of reasons to hate him over the last eight years.
October 15, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
there is an incredible double standard at play here.
People who want to do harm to Obama probably argue the same principles that you're arguing: that the individual deserves it because of his actions, because of what he might do.
Physical harm is appropriate when the individual has done something to deserve it.
Just like the death penalty is, evidently.
For me, the designation of who deserves it is far too much in the eye of the beholder.
October 15, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way, that last comment to CT Voter shouldn't have WFB's buddy icon.
October 15, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sigh. The comment above goes with a comment that isn't here, but farther below. I give up.
October 15, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will not accept that this is a double standard, because I will not accept that Dick Cheney is fully human.
That's all there is to it.
October 15, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Right follows the Bush Doctrine, kind of like that horrible Tom Cruise movie where they arrested people because of things they might do, or were going to do. I completely oppose punishing people who might do something.
HOWEVER, Cheney has done some horrible things, such as fabricating intelligence to send this country to war with Iraq, espousing the belief that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and was involved with 9/11. By the time this is over, we will have lost more soldiers then we had victims of 9/11. Although we should count all the dogs and people who are battling asbestoes carcinomas because the government refused to acknowledge their existence in teh debris and properly prepare the rescuers.
Cheney is Evil, pure and simple. He HAS done things deserving punishment, based on what I believe to be true.
October 15, 2008 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Used to feel this way, but not this close to an election; don't want to risk any sympathy votes.
October 15, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is so true. He turns out to be the gift that will keep on giving. None of what a President Obama will enact (with the help of Pelosi/Reid) will/would have been possible without our current clueless leader.
As Hoover's name was invoked for years after 1932 to cut off all conservative argument, so will "Bush" and "trickle down" become the epithets to silence the right.
We never do significant change in this country absent severe turmoil, and W. is all about turmoil.
October 15, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is what happens when you engage folks not just intellectually in their self interest, but engage their values.
October 15, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm reminded of the Daily Show last week:
John Oliver: The Stupid Vote
http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=187570&title=the-stupid-vote
October 15, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wonder if he's going to really vote for Obama. My guess he's going to get into the voting booth and chicken out.
Although this guy's reasons for not liking Obama may have nothing to do with race, I worry how much the Bradley effect is going to hit us.
October 15, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Bradley effect was decades ago. No one is going to have second thoughts based on race. We have too much exposure to high-level blacks in power now to have it as a barrier. Without qualifying whether they were beneficial or not, let's take a look at Clarence Thomas, Condaleeza Rice, and Colin Powell. Blacks have arrived. They just have not made the Presidency. It has only been a matter of time, and now is the time.
October 15, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
These are not even products of no child left behind.
Shudder to think what american electorate will look like in 20 years.
October 15, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know I shouldn't be but sometimes I'm truly amazed at the ignorance of some of my fellow citizens. Low information voters scare the hell out of me! Like Tena said above, at least they're supporting Obama but it still gives me an uneasy feeling that so many people are out there who believe such nonsense.
October 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we've moved from "low information" voters to "low IQ" voters. . .at least they have good instincts.
October 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
There you go - they're mad as hell at the Repugs and even if their reasons are squirrelly I don't care. As long as they stay mad at the Repugs and vote Democratic - I don't care how stupid their reasons are.
October 15, 2008 12:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. The Obama campaign gambled that the American public really isn't interested in this stuff, and kept goading McCain. Both Obama and Biden publicly goaded McCain. Publicly questioned his courage. McCain is indeed quite the box at this point.
Grab the popcorn, folks.
October 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup, I'm loving it. If McCain brings it up, he's gonna get slammed so hard he'll see stars. And if he *doesn't* bring it up ... CHICKEN!!
October 15, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keeps boxing himself in. That seems to be his MO!
October 15, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know I shouldn't be but sometimes I'm truly amazed at the ignorance of some of my fellow citizens. Low information voters scare the hell out of me! Like Tena said above, at least they're supporting Obama but it still gives me an uneasy feeling that so many people are out there who believe such nonsense.
October 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looks like a case of propaganda backfiring! The repubs have so undermined logic, that people don't see any need to make a logical case for why they are voting against mcShame. But what's clear is that the weird old guy has provoked a backlash vote.
October 15, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's the take-away for me.
What I find even more fascinating is that the Republican consultant had no problem offering pure unadulturated bullshit to these people and he was amazed that it still didn't change their minds. It's just another indication that the Republicans still don't get it. Their best attempts to scare the voters isn't working because the voters' current reality is far more frightening to them than some manufactured Republican fantasy. Moreover, the prospect of letting Republicans try for four more years to "fix" the mess they made scares the excrement out of voters even more. Yet, the consultant is "amazed" that McCain offers no perceivable alternative to Obama. Perhaps he should put the Kool Aid down before he crafts his next message.
Good job, Republican propaganda wizards!
October 15, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the repubs are using the equivalent of double-negatives now and people are somehow getting a positive out of it... the positive being... Get me away from folks!
October 15, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
The real question is whether she actually meant "Weather" with a capital W or if she meant Obama was bombing government buildings with Willard Scott.
October 15, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Willard's report for this evening:
Mostly partly, with a greatly increased chance of probability overnight.
October 15, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hear, hear!
October 15, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love this - I love it because they mean it - they're furious - finally!
October 15, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. The cognitive dissonance is just stunning. No wonder we've got mental health epidemics in this country.
But hey, if it gets us an Obama presidency, I'll take it.
October 15, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
October 15, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think people even know what a terrorist is anymore, the term has been so misused for so long.
October 15, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you're right about that - terrorist just means bogeyman these days - it's an all-purpose bogeyman term. Like Russian used to be -
October 15, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
ain't that the truth!
October 15, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe Obama can move folks on both sides of the aisle a little further up the road towards not hating Government generally.
October 15, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
How much hatred of government is there in someone who says they want the government to take over Walmart? And you know this is someone who spends his weekends in Walmart -
October 15, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whoa. Up Is Down-ism has been twisted around so completely that Up is actually Up again.
I'd like to thank George W. Bush and Dick Cheney for utterly destroying the Republican brand. Here's to the GOP facing 40 years in the wilderness.
October 15, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just goes to show how accurate that SNL skit was where Obama said he consults Ayers but he's so far ahead in the polls it doesn't matter anymore.
October 15, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
What ben and his friend do not seem to get---people have grown numb, and are now oblivious to charges against candidates. It might be a turning point---it has long been assumed that negative campaigning is something people hate, but they pay attention to it and therefore it works. They might have evolved to a point where they they simply ignore it. It is the only way they can go ahead and make their own points about why they are voting for someone.
Ben tries very hard to cheapen obama at every opportunity---it is residue from disappointment over Hillary losing---leaving them in a place to be forced to support Obama. This is his way of communicating that Obama is winning because the election is being handed to him, and the rules that a centrist moderate, hopefully from a southern state is the only rational choice for democrats to nominate. Ben is a jerk.
October 15, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
At the risk of playing Devil's Advocate, what these people said isn't entirely crazy.
The woman is mistaken about Obama's association with Ayers, but has concluded that whatever happened a long time ago is less important than health insurance. That's not entirely crazy.
And although she's pro-life, she may have concluded a McCain presidency may not have made much difference given a Democratic Congress. Again, not entirely crazy.
As for the man, that's harder to explain, but I think he's trying to say that de-regulation has gone to far; that it's even worse now than under Reagan. Again, not entirely crazy.
October 15, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can buy that easily because the opposite makes no sense. He didn't say what he meant, I think - cause otherwise it's too crazy.
October 15, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
goddamn, these ppl are nuts!!!
they actuall ythink he was in a terror cell!!!
October 15, 2008 12:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!
He's winning the "thinks he's a terrorist" vote!
October 15, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of my mentors, a long-time trial lawyer, used to tell me that 90% of the time a jury reaches the right decision, but 90% of that 90%, it's for the wrong reason.
Stories like this prove him right.
October 15, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
That makes a certain amount of sense. Because a lot of the time, when people know they're guilty, or that they don't have a leg to stand on, they start to screw up in other ways. In the case of criminal defendants, even if there's no remorse, the defense attorney knows there's something to hide, and goes into convulsive convolutions trying to hide it. In the McCain campaign...well, we've all seen that play out.
October 15, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
People are so pissed off right now they probably look at Ayers bombing the Pentagon and say, hey, that's not a bad idea.
October 15, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Someone mentioned that the Obama camp gambled that the public wouldn't care about the Ayers thing...
Early in the season I read something about how much money the Obama campaign has spent on polling. I don't think they gamble on much. I think they know that left handed people registered independent making between $75k and $250 living in Zip code 33626 in Tampa are 75% likely to not care about Ayers if their 401k has lost more than 20% value this year. I think that's how the Obama camp rolls.
October 15, 2008 12:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
What? I thought all the dummies were with Palin . . .
October 15, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, in this country, you can't win without the dummy vote.
October 15, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
At this point, Obama could win the Hannity endorsed GE election ballot.
CIRCLE ONE
Democratic Nominee
Friend of unrepentant terrorist/Plagiarizer
Republican Nominee
John "POW" McCain/Sarah "babies,guns,Jesus" Palin
October 15, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!
October 15, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
How much would some more nodes cost? I'll fucking pay for a node if that means I can comment -
October 15, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've said it again and again. I swear these repubs are sabotaging this site!
October 15, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this that Bradley Effect I keep hearing about?
What kind of "Effect" is it when the voter thinks to himself, "Who knows about this guy, but goddamn and motherf#&@ another f#&@ing Republican!"
October 15, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ben Smith writes:
Wisconsin.
TheraP? HyperRevue? Have you been scaring the Republicans?
October 15, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
You better believe it:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/therap/2008/10/obama-advertising-you-can-try.php
Scroll down till you see the photos - all 3 of them. The chimney signs have been up for nearly a month - with no complaint!
October 15, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm going to guess that when repubs do focus groups anymore, they're not really able to find people who haven't made up their minds. It sounds like people know who they're voting for. Some folks may not be able to articulate that very well. And they may not be able to argue against propaganda very well.
It's like a reflex now. Ask who they want and it's Barack - regardless of how much manure you try to spray around.
I love it!
October 15, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
American voters, whether poor or rich, rural or urban, are not stupid. I'm not talking about the wingnuts/white supremist/survivalists here, but AMERICANS.
They have never before, however, been treated like ADULTS. No candidate has ever spoken to them as equals before. No candidate has ever said what he meant and meant what he said before (an elephant faithful, 100%).
I think that these people are responding to being treated with RESPECT.
October 15, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with bells on - most of the people I talk to day in and day out are not this confused about shit. And if the confused people are mad at the Repugs- hey, I'm not arguing with them.
October 15, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about a Donkey faithful 100%? Just in this case.
October 15, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Low info voters may not be articulate, but they still can tell piss from rain.
October 15, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's it. They can't articulate it well. But they darn sure know what they need!
Amen to that!
October 15, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah! Exactly! They know everything is fucked up and they may be somewhat confused about what happened, but they know the Repugs did it and that's all that matters.
October 15, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can fool some of the people some of the time but you can't fool some of the people over and over and over again and not have it come back and bite you in the ass.
October 15, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Politico's Ben Smith:
McCain could be pulling out of Wisconsin.
http://www.wispolitics.com/index.iml?Article=138987
October 15, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
O my god, geha - when's he going to pack it in altogether? He's pulling out of every state he needs to win.
It's over - I wish the little shit would just concede -
October 15, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Holy shit... the map continues to shrink.
Someone... it might have been Nate at 358... speculated within the past week that McCain may be forced to pull back to the Bush States and defending just them.
I get the feeling that's exactly what Obama wants.
Iowa and NM is gone. That's 12 votes Bush Electoral Votes out the window. 274-264.
What's "in play"? Another 100+ votes where Obama needs to pick off literally *one* state. CO? VA? NV? That's before getting to Landslide territory.
McCain can't defend OH, FL, IL and NC plus also fighting to the death in VA while defeding places like CO, NV, WV, MO... Obama has turned the map completely into his favor.
So WI has to go. Unless McCain turns things around fast, we'll see other go and it turn into just a campaign to prevent a landslide.
John
October 15, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
And as always, Sarah Palin doesn't understand the necessity of pulling out
October 15, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fox News has spent the last two days talking about the battleground state of North Carolina and how the electorate is split.
North Carolina. That's their example of a country divided.
I also wonder if the MSM will ever break from their 2000/2004 thinking and realize that Obama's margin of victory this year is going to come from Colorado, New Mexico and Iowa?
Obama trailed in the RCP poll of polls in Colorado for one week in August and that's it. He has never trailed in Iowa or New Mexico.
And then there is Virginia - there hasn't been a poll with Obama under 50% since 10/1. Florida is the next one and Obama has not trailed in any poll since 10/1.
By the time Obama wins Ohio he is already over 300 electoral votes.
October 15, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Add in Florida, where Obama hasn't been behind in any of the October polls and was ahead in most of the polls from late September. Nate has FL tending even harder for Obama than Ohio is, and his projection there is better:
+5.2 FL
+3.7 OH
I think what's gone on in FL has happened so rapidly, and people thought of it as a McCain state for so long, that it's largely flying under the radar of the MSM.
John
October 15, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Andrew Sullivan has an excellent video link to some comments from Palin supporters at a rally in Ohio.
Did you know Obama is related to a terrorist and thinks white people are trash?
October 15, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's what happens when you listen to trash.
Fucking Palin is trash. Trash - that entire family: TRASH.
October 15, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not fair. Trig's okay.
October 15, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
ironic that A man who was in a box for 5 years has put himself right back in.
October 15, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
ironic that a man who was in a box for five years has put himself right back in one. maybe it is where he feels most comfortable.
October 15, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
At the rate the McPalin campaign is burning cash, they should be asking for a Federal bailout by next Monday!
October 15, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I always thought those William Ayres attack ads subtley undermined the effect they were shooting for. As soon as folks see this "domestic terrorist" is a lily-white hippy, that's bound to take the edge off.
October 15, 2008 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
CT Voter -
Thanks for sticking to your, er, guns? I have to search very deeply not to wish bodily harm on Cheney, but in the end I cannot. This is exactly what we find hateful in others. I don't want to find it in myself.
Be the change we seek.
October 15, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you for this nice comment.
You understood my point precisely.
October 15, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Off topic
VP. Cheyney and Mrs. Reagans recent health problems, are highlighting the succession issue. If something happens to Cheyney, who will take his place etc.
Which begs the question:
If something happened to John McCain, would you want Palin to handle the economy?
October 15, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink