Obama Scores Clear Win In Low-Key Debate
The debate's relatively low-key tone, combined with a series of exchanges that Obama won by at minimum a marginal amount, translate into a clear, even decisive win for Obama tonight. There's no point in mincing words: Time is running out for McCain.
As multiple observers have pointed out, McCain needed to jar the electorate into seeing this race in a new way. It isn't even clear if McCain even tried to do this tonight -- there was no moment where he appeared to make an aggressive bid to take down Obama or grab the initiative. McCain did try to hit Obama by saying that the presidency is no time for "on the job training," but the attack was a stale one that we've heard before. There was no mention of the words "William Ayers."
The subdued tone of the debate was partly a function of tonight's format -- one that McCain's people, ironically, wanted and saw as playing to his strengths. But it hamstrung McCain from doing what he needed to do tonight. The format placed the onus on the candidates to "connect" with voters, rather than to land haymakers on each other.
The first big test for both candidates, tellingly, came not from an exchange between the two but from a voter's question. Teresa asked why we should trust either party when they'd both landed us in this mess. It was an invitation for the candidates to reproduce Bill Clinton's famous moment in the 1992 debate against George H.W. Bush, when he approached a questioner and spoke directly to her economic distress. Both failed the Bill test, but any draws at this point favor Obama, as did the focus on anyone but each other.
The candidates, aware of the constraints of being in an intimate setting with voters, edged into attacking each other, and even there, Obama, at a minimum, held his own.
Again, the challenge for McCain was to land a haymaker, and that just didn't happen. McCain launched a hard hit on Obama by repeating his familiar claim that Obama will hike taxes on middle class families and small businesses. But Obama aggressively rebutted those claims at length, with authority and conviction.
The bottom line is that the stage mostly belonged to Obama tonight. In a very telling moment, a veteran asked the candidates whether, if Iran were to attack Israel, would they immediately commit to military force to defend Israel or would they wait for approval from the U.N. Security Council. McCain bonded skillfully with the veteran, called for increased international sanctions on Iran, and attacked Obama for saying he would meet with the country's leadership.
But Obama refused to cede the moment to McCain. He agreed that of course we would defend Israel and would not wait for international approval to do that. But in a striking moment, he approached the veteran and told him in clear, practical terms that it's important to use every diplomatic tool at our disposal to prevent the horrific scenario his questioner had envisioned.
Obama's victory was at its most evident in the contrast between their closing statements. McCain's closing argument had a meandering, almost pleading quality to it. McCain's argument seemed to be that because he served his country honorably, and has handled crisis ably in the past, he deserves the job. Obama's answer, by contrast, focused on what he would do for Americans if they elected him, and was relentlessly in sync with his message.
Time is running out for McCain. It's that simple.
Our new battle cry:
"THAT ONE '08"
October 7, 2008 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not that one, THAT ONE!
October 7, 2008 11:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
That one is the change we need! THAT ONE'08!
October 7, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
With the Obama logo in the "o" in "ONE."
October 7, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right on. That T-shirt is going to be awesome!
October 7, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Image courtesy of Andrew Sullivan:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/images/2008/10/07/thatonesk9_2.jpg
October 8, 2008 12:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Surprisingly dull, and we have an entire month to go!
October 7, 2008 11:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
That makes me so happy for THAT ONE!!!
October 7, 2008 11:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Frankly, I didn't find the debate dull. But again, I unashamedly admit, I was mesmerized by the grace, confidence and aptitude of Barack Obama.
Also, Greg, this debate will be looked in a much different light, once we all move away from it. This is a very notable moment presidential elections, and we'll see it differently a few months or years from now.
October 7, 2008 11:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think this will look like 1932 all over again, once perspective is injected. There will be important differences though. Herbert Hoover went solo as the albatross, but McCain will be grafted to Bush and Cheney in that role. Perhaps with time McCain will be seen more as a victim and Bush as the solo villian, Cheney as the diabolical side kick (or vice versa).
The hole we are in is not as great (yet) as 1932. And maybe we can still avert the rise of reactionary regimes around the world (Russia?). But the refutation of Republican economic duopoly of supply-side+laissez-faire is even more dead now than it was in 1932.
While our aristocracy will surely want to bring it back, the outside world will not let them come back. I mean this quite sincerely. The horrors that the Republican policies brought the world after 1928: the depression, Hitler, Japan, WWII, the Holocaust should have been a permanent bar from this duopoly ever coming back again, but it did when Reagan emerged.
We may avoid the melt down of the 1930s this time (hopefully) but the world isn't going to let us repeat this a third time. If the American people won't step in and stop it, I am quite certain the world is going to organize itself to prevent a three-pete. And that might even mean an anti-republican military alliance that stretches from the Atlantic to the the Pacific in Eurasia.
That's the shape I think this election will take on as we pull away from Novemember 2008. This melt down wasn't necessary. It was predictable. The rest of the world wants to get on with economic growth and the ideologically free persuit of what makes them happy (ie. Pragmatism).
It's sunset for the Reagan revolution.
October 8, 2008 12:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
you lost me with the conparison of Japan, and Hitler with American Republicans...
Care to elaborate?
October 8, 2008 1:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Indeed. I'm no fan of the Republican Party by any means, but I don't think they deserve to share the stain of the Nazi holocaust; at least not alone (I mean just as many politicians blind or indifferent to the threat of Hitler in the 1930s had 'D's next to their names as had 'R's).
October 8, 2008 5:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think Tim might have meant (American Neo-)Fascism, perhaps connected to the Republicans by way of Prescott Bush's lucrative association with the Nazis, but I really have no idea unless he cares to clarify.
Certainly Reagan's mission was to pick up the ball and run with it Gipperly after Nixon's disastrous fumble. These things do run in cycles and the Republican elements have been trying very hard (and may have succeeded--jury still out) in turning us into a fascist state since 1980. I too have wondered how long Russia & China would put up with the crap before they got together (at the behest of nearly the whole rest of the world) and decided to send over a nuke or three and settle things once and for all. Instead they seem to have decided to try & win the Last Great Oil Grab & along with, in the case of China, buying up tons of US loans (oops--that didn't quite work out so well...but they're the Middle Kingdom, they can take the hit). Exploitation is always more efficient than destruction and one can even claim to be acting out of some sort of humanity into the bargain.
Can Obama give us back some of our dignity as a country? Yes, I think he can. Can he perhaps accomplish some other worthwhile things? Again, I think so. But he can't do anything about the fact that the planet is running out of oil, which is the major differing factor between today and the Great Depression. So although I too am looking forward to January, I'm not holding my breath for the "happily ever after" line.
October 8, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed with all points, but that McCain's reinforced his "angry old man" image calls into question and dulls attacks that his campaign needs to call Obama's fitness into question.
October 7, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup, the "fitness" issue may really be McCain's stamina. I think Americans sense that we're in for some tough years ahead that will require a considerable amount of energy and nimble thinking.
October 7, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting comment.
October 8, 2008 1:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
that creepy smile of his throughout pissed my wife off.
October 8, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was dull for the first hour, but heated up nicely eventually. I must admit to missing the "That one" line in real time. I was probably emailing Josh with a witty comment he didn't post.
Obama took the lesson of Debate 1 and sharpened his Iraq answers tonight. Sure it was a zinger, but it was better than the hair plug line.
October 7, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. The big story is the attack dog that didn't bark in the night. (Emphasis for Tweety's benefit.) No Bill Ayers attack from McSame; no major meltdown.
I kept checking the clock, hoping it would be over soon. Listening to McSame is a real chore.
October 7, 2008 11:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup. You tune out.
October 7, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe because he's better at making jabs behind Obama's back rather than to his face. A coward perhaps?
October 7, 2008 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
A coward for sure, but that's not it.
He couldn't bring it up himself. Answering the audience questions gave him no time or opening.
Maybe he thought his lobbying earlier today would get Brokaw to bring it up, but Brokaw didn't take the bait.
October 8, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Its obvious " that one " won the debate.
October 7, 2008 11:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I could do mcShame's lines:
"My friend, I know how to fix ..... (fill in the blank). I've already done that before. You can look at my record [of lies]. America can do anything. We are the best. We can do this. Because we've done this before. And by the way, my opponent [more lies].
It was the same refrain, no matter the question.
Plus, did others feel that at times he leaned so close to women, they cringed?
October 7, 2008 11:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
At one point I said to my wife "Now he's gonna go over and breathe on her. Yuck!"
October 8, 2008 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
You nailed it. That about sums up the old guy's "performance" tonight.
October 8, 2008 12:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Everybody expected McCain to go after Obama on Ayers etc. and he never did. Does this mean that McCain got cold feet about bringing it up in front of 50 million people? Is this something that his people figured out doesn't actually have any pull with anybody outside of the base? Is Sarah Palin just flying solo when she brings this stuff up - is it just a matter of "free Sarah!"? Or is John McCain just too big of a big pussy to actually look Barack Obama and the American people in the eye and make such accusations and insinuations?
I don't know, but hopefully in the future, a McCain insider will write up an honest account of this campaign and when he/she does, it will be far more interesting than the "Lives and Times of David Axelrod."
October 7, 2008 11:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know why anyone took seriously McCain's claim that "Tuesday night" might be a good time to take the gloves off. Almost everyone agreed that a town hall debate format is terrible for negative attacks. I suspect that the negative attacks will continue in both McCain's and Palin's speeches, and we will see a string of negative ads from them. I also expect that we will see much more negativity from McCain in the final debate.
However, I do think his campaign has learned to a certain extent that he simply must address the economy more directly, and he tried to do that tonight. I expect we will see more of that.
I hope Obama has learned that he must stop getting ensnared in their mud and continue to emphasize his policies and plans for the future. There's no good reason for him to tarnish his brand and seem defensive. The few independent voters I've heard from already thought that McCain actually was more focused on answering questions last night. I disagree, but still, at this point, Obama needs to take the last debate as if McCain isn't even there and speak directly to the concerns of the American people.
October 8, 2008 7:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I second that.
I think his (relatively) positive campaign and demeanor is why he is ahead in the polls. Throwing mud just detracts from that. It is a fine line though, not to fall in to the Kerry swift-boat trap of assuming Americans are above that kind of stuff.
October 8, 2008 8:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain's base will go crazy over his 300 Billion dollar plan to buy the mortgages.
But, he'll spin it in a way where he can say, "See! I'm standing up to my own party!"
October 7, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
He wins 5 maybe 6 converts. 32,312 stay home and don't vote at all.
October 7, 2008 11:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I thought McSame did well with that mortgage-buyout thing.
According to the instant-response theater on MSNBC, so did Democrats and independents. But Republicans hated it!
October 7, 2008 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I expect that this is an early sign that McCain is *finally* going to start talking about economic policy. I think he will continue to be negative on Obama, and Palin will be crazy negative. But I expect a pivot from the McCain camp toward issues.
Obama better be ready: stay specific, direct, and answer the people's questions. I actually don't think he did that good of a job at that tonight. I just think McCain's answers were more jumbled and incoherent.
October 8, 2008 7:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I admit to being a bit surprised at the awesome snap poll results.....not that O had the edge but so large an edge
This as always the most important number...GREAT NEWS FOR JOHN MCCAIN
October 7, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish Obama had answered the question about what will Americans be asked to sacrifice differently. I wish he would've said that, at the very least, a simple task like using a tire pressure gage would help the nation and our individual pocketbooks. The McCain camp made a "joke" out of this. Krugman said he thinks such realities fall on deaf ears because Americans don't want to do the "work" required. We're in the shitter for sure if we can't pull off something as taxing as that. I have a sickening feeling Krugman had something in that thought of his, though, and that's why Obama doesn't say such things anymore.
He is a nimble politician.
October 7, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Halprin on McCain's current chances:
"...more grim than is commonly discussed."
(on Charlie Rose)
October 7, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wonder if Halperin will still "give the week" to McCain.
LOL
October 8, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
If there is a way, he'll make it happen. Something like Obama failed to exceed expectations or some other bullshit.
October 8, 2008 1:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Surprising that so many of you LEFTIE TAX n SPENDERS missed it
THE BAD LOAN BUYOUT....that was his gambit
Boy the conservatives r gonna love that one
October 7, 2008 11:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
But the RIGHTIE BORROW n SPENDERS won't be fazed a bit. It's just more finance-charge dollars out of our pockets into theirs.
October 7, 2008 11:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Given that McCain is so fond of the town hall meeting format, I was really surprised to see him leave the stage area so quickly. You'd think he'd want to mingle with potential voters and get in a few more photo-ops. I'm guessing he was too agitated to stick around -- wouldn't want to risk the chance of having to look at Obama again.
But Obama remained on stage for several minutes longer, interacting with audience members -- a class act. There were even a couple of suposedly "undecided" voters who asked to have their pictures taken with Obama.
October 7, 2008 11:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I doubt they're undecided now.
October 7, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
(in the voice of John Stewart) Land...slide!
October 8, 2008 12:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
McSame? Not so much.
October 8, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's the consummate Bill Clinton move. Talk to every one of those people if it takes an hour.
October 8, 2008 12:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I noticed the picture guys, too. That only Obama was there for pix - not that anyone would have wanted their picture with McCain - and people wanted their picture with Obama and got them, more than anything made it a slam-dunk for Obama.
Elitist, my ass. Elitists don't hang around after a performance to make nice with the proletariat.
People really, really LIKE Obama. They want to get close to him.
Step aside, Bill Clinton. There's a new Big Dawg in town.
October 8, 2008 8:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll give McCain credit for not sinking to the low of Ayers etc. He was meandering and his jokes fell flat, and lied about taxes and stuff, but...he was in the realm of being a reasonable person. Anyway, I do wonder if the campaign will continue to send Palin out to incite hatred and resentment given McCain's semi-honorable (or at least civilized), if fatally weak, performance tonight. Do they really think that will be effective?
October 7, 2008 11:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
I understand your sentiment, but it says something when we give a candidate credit for not implying his opponent is a terrorist sympathizer.
October 7, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Very well said.
October 8, 2008 12:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good point, I was just trying to be gracious to McCain in his defeat! It just seemed to me like he slipped back into his "old" (not quite so foul) mode a bit esp toward the end, like when he admitted that "Sen. Obama is right" (was it about Russia? I forget).
I think McCain is starting to accept that he will lose. He's moving out of the anger phase.
October 8, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
He will have Palin say it, just like he already has. Do you really believe that Palin came up with that smear. How the hell would BarbieCuda have a clue about William Ayers.
McCain put the words in Palin's mouth, so he deserves no credit. He did not bring it up tonight, because he did not have the guts to say it to Senator Obama's face.
October 8, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
The only way McCain could have won was if he refused to show up to the debate because, he believed The Other One was a Terrosits!
October 7, 2008 11:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly.
The fact that McCain shook Obama's hand and spent time in the same room as him tonight means that McCain is now someone who palls around with terrorist sympathizers. LOL.
See how stupid that whole attack is.
October 8, 2008 8:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
"That One" may have wrapped this up.
http://pufferfish.typepad.com/
October 7, 2008 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jolly good. If I were a citizen of the USA I'd be sure to vote for that Thatone one.
October 8, 2008 12:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
When my grandmother's memory started go, she began referring to my stepmother (with whom she had a difficult relationship with, at best) as "She."
Whether it was strictly senility or a combination of forgetfulness and truth telling, I'll never know, but McCain's slip sure is reminiscent.
Since "That One" is the one, no real harm was done.
October 7, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, Greg. But I disagree on the "low-key" point. I think that's what CNN and other channels are trying to say right now, perhaps in an effort to make the race seem closer than it really is. I'll paste my comment from the previous thread here to explain why I think this way:
I think as liberals (or progressives, or whatever the fuck you want to call yourself) we're WAY too cautious. I felt that way while following Josh's live blog during the debate. He was indicating that Obama was winning, but only cautiously so.
I'll say this: I think it was a slaughter. There are no bullets left in McCain's gun. He repeated things from the last debate ("I looked into his eyes and saw three letters k-g-b") that just made him sound like he had nothing to offer. He even did damage to his own base by offering to, in their eyes, socialize mortgages.
It was a fucking wipe-out, folks. Don't believe the hype that would pretend things are still close.
October 7, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed, but the media still wants to generate public interest by being provocative-- it's good for revenues.
October 8, 2008 12:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's what I'm sayin'.
October 8, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's tough to sell a horse race when one of the horses is already in the glue bottle.
October 8, 2008 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agree. 100%. TPM is known to just follow MSM verdicts on the debates. They thought McCain won until the snap polls came out.
So, if TPM and MSM say luke warm victory, the reality is different.
I agree with Sullivan, this was "mauling." I don't agree with Sullivan on everything but he is a great judge when it comes to debates.
October 8, 2008 12:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fuck yeah. And he has no trouble saying it. Maybe being outside of either group-think (a position he is almost uniquely in during this election) helps one be more objective.
October 8, 2008 12:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
At some level, it's all about context. Had McCain been in Obama's position in the polls we would be talking about it differently. But McCain is not, Obama is in the position Obama is in the polls. And as such, this was utterly a win for Obama. The excitement generated by the curiousity of watching how McCain would try to create the game changer. That he faild miserably does not in any way decrease the entertainment value.
October 8, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep acamus. Also, I think this debate is beign underestimated. Much more than the first debate, I think this debate clearly demonstrated the difference between the old face and the new face of America.
How you look, talk, behave and understand the world. TPM analysis is just useless.
October 8, 2008 12:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Like all things, there is a value in their analysis, at the very least it creates a thread for the community to bounce off of, and that is something we can believe in.
October 8, 2008 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
TPM looks upto the MSM talking heads before they make their call and it pisses me off. Of course, not every point Greg made is not useles, but calling it "low key" is just a typical MSM BS. Just because there was no slander, drama or major Gaffe doesn't mean it was low key.
Obama won on every issue, and in terms of semantics and style Greg is underestimating the affect of this debate.
October 8, 2008 12:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
kash79, you're on the mark bloke. This is why there are still undecided voters. The headlines should consist of how succinct Obama is on policies and issues. His relevant and up to date stance on foreign policy and negotiations.
Instead it's Palin and her comical incompetance and air time to McCain to tell us about Ayers and other useless shit (who when given the opportunity wouldn't even follow up on his promise to take off the "gloves").
You're right.. the media should be getting excited about the substance, not the drama.
October 8, 2008 12:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
So cautious an assessment - like Josh.
The telling part for me, as I've said to the point of boring everyone, was afterward, when the Obamas spent 30 minutes with the crowd.
McCain and Cindy left.
That's about all you need to know -the crowd adored the Obamas openly by the time it was said and done.
Obama and Michelle worked that room like they were the President and First Lady and we're just there. Obama said it again tonight: "When I'm president..."
We won.
October 7, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. Done and done.
And did the headline on this article just change?
October 7, 2008 11:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent point. McCain, as much as anybody else, loves getting the love from the crowd. That he walked away says he was told by his people to get out there.
October 8, 2008 12:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
They don't love him anymore. He washed up.
October 8, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well McCain is old and looked to be in physical discomfort all night. I agree Obama staying around and taking a group photo was political genius, but I think McCain might have left for physical reasons.
October 8, 2008 12:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, his depends wee full.
October 8, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I know but Jonze, you do love to make up backstory for stuff and I think McLame: a. knows it's over; b. can't stand Obama and cannot live with the idea of watching him work a crowd.
He knows the man has charisma pouring out of him and that he himself has exactly none -
October 8, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama has so much presence and is so much more attractive in the leader sense. McCain didn't really have a choice. He would have been completely overshadowed and embarrassed.
His staff did the right thing in getting him out of there.
October 8, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that McCain knows it's over, and I believe he does hate what his campaign has become. Biden mentioned about not questioning anothers motives in the Senate because a lot of people sent them there for a reason so there has to be something good and decent about them.
McCain wanted to have a different style election, the joint town halls, flying from place to place together - it was a romanticized idea that never really fit with reality but that's where he was coming from.
I think McCain is wrong for the country, and that Obama is right. I just don't see what McCain's options are, you can't have him roll over - we need an election not a coronation. I think he keeps being told that the ends justify the means by his staffers, and that he believes Obama is wrong for the country here and now. That's why he's fighting and why he's down in the gutter. Unlike some politicians, I don't think McCain likes it, but he's made his choices and I think he realizes he made mistakes with his staffer choices.
Like I said elsewhere, I'll probably hate his guts tomorrow, but I just felt sorry for the old timer tonight.
(It's probably because for the first time I'm getting a little confident that Obama is gonna win, and I am seeing McCain as the vanquished challenger)
October 8, 2008 12:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are free to feel sorry for that fucking maniac if you want.
I do not.
He wasn't forced to do anything. He's spent his entire life doing shit strictly on the basis of what it could do for John McCain. He does not give one shit about this country.
He's the last person I'd feel sorry for - and Palin is next to last.
October 8, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Me niether. I don't feel sorry for him. Wait for tommorow morning and you'll hear another McCain supporter suggesting to kill "that one."
October 8, 2008 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly right, Tena.
October 8, 2008 6:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jonze, you are one of my most favorite people out here. But you are kinda making the same tired argument that somehow McCain didn't want this, it was forced on him, either by his campaign people or by circumstance.
I agree that it's a horrible way to end your golden years. But he chose this. In fact, I now believe, after having read the Rolling Stone article among others, that this is who he has been all his life: spoiled, cynical, a hater.
October 8, 2008 12:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
While McCain's bargain with the devil would make a good story; well thought of politician loses his soul and loses the election and ends up being a tragic figure, I won't be able to feel sorry for him until after Obama takes the oath of office, if then.
McCain hasn't just gone negative, he's gone toxic. By stirring up all of this hysteria and hate, he's make it harder for Obama to govern, once he's elected.
He's behaved dishonorably, at a minimum.
October 8, 2008 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
And it was a hell of a lot more than a group photo. Obama and Michelle shook the hand of every person there. Obama answered every question. People took pictures with him and got his autograph, but mainly he listened to them and he talked to them and by the time it was over everybody in that room was just starry eyed. One older white man as Obama was leaving, leaned over the all of the walkway and said something to Obama that cracked him up - it was a perfect moment - totally real.
October 8, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain is proving that his slogan "country first" is no more than just a slogan. But Obama shows by his actions that he genuinely puts "people first".
October 8, 2008 12:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly! Picking Palin was irresponsible and makes him UNfit to be president. Period!
October 8, 2008 12:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Without President O, it'd be Cuntry First.
October 8, 2008 12:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wasn't taking a shot with mentioned the group photo, I mentioned it because I thought it was spontaneously neat.
October 8, 2008 12:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's ok - I really don't know what the you watched and what other networks showed - I was just filling in the whole picture in case.
October 8, 2008 12:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wish I'd seen that.
One gets the sense that Obama's destiny is the presidency; that he's the right person, at the right time during this moment of crisis. There isn't anyone who can come close to providing the kind of leadership and inspiration, the way he he does.
October 8, 2008 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
You said it. Exactly how I feel. Obama is just destined for this.
October 8, 2008 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tweedy!!!!!!!!!!
October 8, 2008 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let's talk about 'destiny' in 4 (or, probably, 8 years). For now, he's got a lot of work to do.
This elections already gone on forever and if you look at Obama, you can see that it's already aged him. I really wish him well and hope all of our problems (i don't know; war, economic CF, Starbucks actually closing stores) he can accomplish half of what he wants.
October 8, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jonze,
McCain left. Obama didn't. End of story. You have no special inside knowledge on why McCain left, so you are just making up stuff, that will gain him sympathy. If he can not stay for a few minutes, after a debate, then he is not up to the job of President.
October 8, 2008 12:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fair enough, but you don't know why he left either and are assuming the worst. Look at everybody jumping on him because he might not have shaken Obama's hand, or he said "That one" like it was some great slur. Folks want to hate McCain and make up narratives to feed their disdain for him.
I did watch him tonight, and it was clearly apparent that he was in physical discomfort.
You can believe he left because he is an arrogant prick who didn't want to shake folks hands and didn't want to see Obama in his element, I'll believe differently.
October 8, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
You think we're making shit up? I'm sorry - there's video Jonze. That's not making shit up.
There is no video of McCain saying he doesn't feel good.
I don't think it's us who are making a narrative up. But whatever.
October 8, 2008 12:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
There's plenty of video of McSame looking like he didn't feel well. Not all the time, and not overly obvious, but he looked to me like this debating shit was taking its toll on him.
BTW, did you actually type McCain??? Who is that wascally wabbit of whom you speak? :-)
October 8, 2008 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
I type McCain because McPuns are lame.
October 8, 2008 5:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Jonze,
I never offered any reason why he left. You did.
I said he left, and for what ever reason, then that is clear proof that he is not up to the job of President. If he could not stick around for a few minutes, then he is not up to attending big eight meetings. or summit meetings.
October 8, 2008 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
This whole "he left/Obama stayed" stuff is tricky. Are we gonna say FDR shouldn't have run for that fourth term?
October 8, 2008 12:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Different time, different media age. No debates back then. FDR running for a fourth term. McCain running for his first at the age of 72. FDR with a three term record, so the voters knew what sort of President he had been. McCain has yet to prove that he is presidential material.
If Roosevelt were running for his very first term,under those circumstances, then you would have a valid comparison.
October 8, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think the crucial point for me was when you said "for whatever reason"....
What I didn't explain in my reply is yes, we don't know the reason why McCain left (or why he said "That One"-racism, disdain, a combination?)and we set ourselves up to be knocked straight back down w/o knowing the full story.
Re; FDR-it is ironic, of course, that the lack of information in that era kept the electorate unaware. Would it have mattered? Who knows...
October 8, 2008 1:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
If his reasons for leaving (or just being an asshole) are physical ailments or not, it's still relevant to his ability to be a leader. Particularly during hard times.
You don't make a crippled blind leper your chief of staff.
October 8, 2008 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't you just contradict yourself there?
October 8, 2008 1:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
No you didn't. Sorry, my bad. Getting late...LOL!
October 8, 2008 1:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
If that is the case, well... it's just as bad.
October 8, 2008 12:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's what I exactly felt. And I said this on the other thread while they were still mixing and exchanging with the crowd. Most independents got to shake hands, chit chat, and take pictures with Barack and Michelle. They looked like people's First Family, not just some First Dude from secessionist party or war monger grumpy Busch family who hurried out for medication.
October 8, 2008 12:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
He pulled out of the debates two weeks too early.
October 8, 2008 12:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
too late!
October 8, 2008 12:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tina,
You are so right.
It was the "working the crowd" that the whole world should have watched and what made me certain it is "ALL OVER".
Please God, protect OBAMA so that we can all start afresh in November.
October 8, 2008 12:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tena...Sorry.Tina,
You are so right.
It was the "working the crowd" that the whole world should have watched and what made me certain it is "ALL OVER".
Please God, protect OBAMA so that we can all start afresh in November.
October 8, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why would you respond to yourself with the exactly the same statement that you originally posted.
October 8, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
You had it right the first time - it's Tena. I was named for my Norwegian grandmother and that's how she spelled it and it's been my little quirk my parents gave me as my own little cross to bear.
Nobody gets it right - and I understand that very well. LOL!
October 8, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hear you. I'm a Scot with one T. People have been fixing my name for me all my life, starting in kindergarten. At one time I had a credit card with my name spelled wrong.
October 8, 2008 12:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
Pronounce it with a silent t like in french :P
October 8, 2008 5:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama hit the trifecta. He won on substance, impression, and expectations.
In the first debate, I thought McSame won the impression component but lost the other two. In the VP debate, Miss Half-Baked Alaska won the expectations battle (not hard) but lost the other two.
Conclusion? McSame is toast. Extra burnt.
October 8, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dropped jelly side down and stuck to the floor.
October 8, 2008 12:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nailed to the floor.
October 8, 2008 12:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Reminds me of a Shawn Colvin lyric:
I swear you look like you're in jail
And all at once you're half way out the door
One foot dancing, one foot nailed
To the floor.
October 8, 2008 12:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought the first debate had "decisiveness" down for McCain but impression was generally bad.
October 8, 2008 5:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's fair to say that That One aced it. Magoo looked like a man who finds himself at a party where he doesn't know anyone, can't remember who invited him, can't work out who the host is, wants to go home but can't find his car. In short, the guy looked old.
Old, confused and agitated. The thought of this mendacious old bozo, with one foot in the grave and the other one on a banana skin, in the White House with Snowshoe Sadie waiting in the wings, gives me the frigging horrors.
October 8, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
You and the rest of the country.
Worst political decision ever.
October 8, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. I think we can finally start calling it with confidence the "worst political decision ever."
It feels so good to know something that is certain in an uncertain world!!!!
October 8, 2008 12:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Great visuals :-)
Yep, McSame seemed to stutter a lot. I even remember seeing one Phfbbbt! moment from him. He seemed a bit tierd just trying to keep up.
October 8, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
mendacious old bozo
Nicely put!
October 8, 2008 12:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mendacious old bozo. Very good.
October 8, 2008 6:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Having watched the 'The One' segment again, I have *no doubt* that McCain knew exactly what he was saying and was not some kind of slip up.
October 8, 2008 12:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is not "the One". McCain said: "That One". Let us keep the facts straight.
October 8, 2008 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let's take a page from the Republicans and rename it to the ONE!
October 8, 2008 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought he was saying, That won!
October 8, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Andrea Mitchell went there -- she said people will take that remark as racist.
October 8, 2008 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Honestly, I don't see as racist so much as dismissive, uncouth and disdainful.
October 8, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
The man has a history. He opposed the MLK holiday.
October 8, 2008 12:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. Let's not over do it.
October 8, 2008 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Take it from someone in the heart of racist-dem Appalachian territory:
"That one" = "boy"
He might as well have said "ni**er," because that's what southerners heard - racists loved it, liberals hated it, but we all heard it: "ni**er."
October 8, 2008 9:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
My sister, the Republican ladies club president now Obama supporter, noticed that McCain refused to shake Obama's hand at the end, waving him off to Cindy, who played the dutiful wife and took Obama's hand for a moment and then moved off. Obama graciously let the slight pass with a smile, as any adult would. If my sister noticed that slight, you can bet many others did as well (and those that didn't, my sister will tell them about it ;-)
October 8, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
God bless your sister.
October 8, 2008 12:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's just what I saw.
October 8, 2008 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is a non-issue. I'm disappointed to see Josh obsess so much about it on the front page.
The teleprompter snafu made it irrelevant. Some claim to have seen a handshake; others not. Doesn't matter. Most people will realize that, even if they hadn't, they would have if Brokaw hadn't shooed them out of his way.
They shook hands at the beginning. No reason why either of them would be reluctant at the end.
October 8, 2008 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have to agree. I had a moment of obsessing about it on a previous thread, but now I realize it doesn't matter. This is friggin' People mag stuff.
The real news, the news Josh didn't report, is that Obama just decimated his opponent tonight. To hell with these minor, polite, middle-class value niceties like handshaking, etc.. Give me the real story, the one that says that Obama one this hands down.
It really wasn't close, even without the questions of whether or not McCain shook hands, made eye contact, etc.. Even if he weren't such an insecure freak, he had his ass handed to him tonight.
October 8, 2008 12:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
That teleprompter snafu showed at least one thing - that Tom Brokenjaw is lost without his dearly beloved teleprompter.
What, for a "veteran newcaster", you couldn't wing it (or read a note) just for few seconds ?
A pathetic has been. Reminded me of Bill O's "there is nothing on the screen, fuck it, we will do it live" moment.
October 8, 2008 2:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
And the best part was that those were the pictures everyone was seeing when the pundits were discussing the debate. Barack and Michelle smiling, posing for pictures, signing autographs - audience members walking up with cameras ... and no sign of McCain.
That's advertising you can't buy.
October 8, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes -- I was watching it on C-Span, and Barack and Michelle were there till the end, talked to each one in the audience, shook hands, gave autographs, took pics, even in a large group. If people were watching that whole scene, few would say "Who is he? He is an other."
A moment of alienation of McScum/Failin.
October 8, 2008 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
C-Span just rocks!
I bet nobody else showed that whole after-debate Obama-fest. It was just the best part.
October 8, 2008 12:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Word, C-Span is the best -- thanks to C-Span I also was able to maintain peace of mind when watching the conventions. And I wish other channels had shown that Obama-fest too! It was so beautiful and heart-warming that it actually would have been one of the strongest counter-punch against those scums.
October 8, 2008 12:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have to say, I love "boring" debates. All the debates in the general so far have been almost entirely issue-driven. Compare that with the fiasco that was the ABC Dem primary debate. Is that crap what we want? Is that more entertaining? That was clearly what a lot of the pundits wanted going in. It's not what I wanted. I want substantive, issue-driven, sensationalism-free debates.
October 8, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I could ask for more time for the candidates to flesh out their view points, but these are heads and shoulders above the primary debates.
October 8, 2008 12:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fair enough. I shouldn't assume sensationalism is the only thing that could enhance a debate.
I will give the moderators so far that much credit, though. They've kept to the issues.
October 8, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, I will definitely grant the moderators that.
October 8, 2008 12:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. Me too. Especially after watching Sarah Slut Palin turn it into a flirt-center the last time. I hated the VP debate. She was an insult, proudly flaunting her lack of depth, to the serious hour we live in.
October 8, 2008 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gotta love Andrea Mitchell coming on KO's show to Tire Swing for "McCain's Great New Financial Crisis Solution".
John
October 8, 2008 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
As others have alluded to, McSame didn't have the balls to confront Obama face-to-face with the bullshit charges he and his ditz running mate have been inflaming the wingnutz with this week.
October 8, 2008 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Magoo's plan to freeze spending was rapidly followed by his plan to buy everyones shaky mortage, all umpteen trillion bucks worth. I'm surprised he forgot to tell us about his scheme for extracting sunbeams from cucumbers. That would have been a game-changer...
October 8, 2008 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Explain again how sheep's bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes."
October 8, 2008 12:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is a mortgage home owner assistance package in the $700 Billion Rescue Bill that just got signed into law, so make sure that you do not let McCain grab that, and claim that it is his new idea.
The only way it could be is if he does not know what he just voted on.
October 8, 2008 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ah but does the bailout bill include re-negotiating mortgages to the lower current market value? If you listen closely he does not say re-negotiating with the homeowner. Hmmmmm....
Seems like Gonzales doublespeak to me?
October 8, 2008 1:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
I watched the video again and I disagree that McCain just couldn't think of Obama's name (senior moment).
He actually said "that one" quite fluently with no pause at all before it, which shows that he wasn't struggling to think of Obama's name. So.......it appears to be fairly intentional to me.
October 8, 2008 12:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
co-sign
October 8, 2008 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, and he even point a thumb, sideways toward Obama, when he snarled; "that one".
October 8, 2008 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
That one....that smartass kid.....GET OFF MY LAWN!!!
October 8, 2008 1:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Who did X? That one! Who didn't? Me!". It's a rhetorical device; one I use all the time. Usually to make a humorous point but really just to punctuate. It's just for emphasis folks. Let's not read tea leaves; let's talk about the substance of the debate.
October 8, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did anyone hear that Mcain said that some of $700 would go to terrorists?
October 8, 2008 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
700 Billion!
October 8, 2008 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd imagine after that debate the McCain campaign is already creating a commercial with doctored pictures of Bin Laden and Obama sipping latte's at Star Bucks together planning 9/12.
October 8, 2008 12:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd have thought so, too, but they muffed fielding their McSame Wins! ad today, so maybe they're asleep?
October 8, 2008 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
The closest thing to a gaffe in 3 hours of debate is McCain's "that one." It was a moment where McCain revealed something about himself: about his temperament and his contempt for people.
I thought Obama was very strong for the first 45 minutes: he connected with the people in the room, used the pronoun "you" when talking about people's problems. While McCain sounded disconnected, and looked disoriented. McCain got stronger on the foreign policy questions, but Obama answered the vet's question about Iran better: once again, he just looked better. It was one of the few times he stood in one place and just made his points directly to the questioner.
October 8, 2008 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am watching a re-run of the debate and again am struck by the fact that McCain has to use his cri b notes but I have yet to see Obama even pick up his pen to write anything. Mastery of the topics without having to resort to McDoodles!
October 8, 2008 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Master has no need for notes, only the pupil who is getting schooled.
October 8, 2008 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
I did watch him tonight, and it was clearly apparent that he was in physical discomfort.
That's just where we need to go right now, from here to infirmity!
October 8, 2008 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
This thing is over. Less than four weeks to go ... and I have to say, it's going pretty quickly now. I remember the interminable primary season, when Hillary refused to pack it in, and her awful June 3 speech, and then her 'make-good' speech a few days later. Steady good polls that all came with everyone saying, "yeah but it's early; wait until the Olympics are over ... wait until the VP picks ... wait until the conventions ... wait until McCain's bounce fades ... wait until the debates. And now? TWENTY-SEVEN DAYS TO PARTY TIME! I swear I am gonna go out in my street and scream OBAMA!!!! as loud as I can when they call Virginia for him because then it will be done! And I am gonna be so damned happy to dance on the political graves of these scum-sucking sacks of shit! And being 57, I don't dance too well!
October 8, 2008 12:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
okay sorry for the italics ... my first try.
October 8, 2008 12:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can never get those extras right either.
Re: "And I am gonna be so damned happy to dance on the political graves of these scum-sucking sacks of shit! And being 57, I don't dance too well!"
Ah, the joys of middle age!
October 8, 2008 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, it gave your post a sort of diary effect that enhanced your words, 100% agreed, by the bye.
Political grave, indeed. The GOP, that bastion of DEE-nial, has no idea how fuckered it is. The hasty return to the Testimony Room in Alaska gives us a hint: you'd better obey that damned subpeona.
I do not envy Obama and the unspeakable things he must Know once he becomes prez. His DoJ is going to be businer than a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest.
October 8, 2008 12:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, but you got it right: scum-sucking sacks of shit.
October 8, 2008 6:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
No apology necessary. You should have seen Greg's initial post on McCain losing maverick status yesterday - he flubbed the closing html tag and almost blinded us all.
Even the experts goof up tags.
October 8, 2008 9:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I understand that Joe Biden attended a family funeral today, so I didn't expect to see him following the debate. But I'm flipping through the channels looking for Sarah Palin to hear her offer her spin and expertise on the issues.
Oh, that's right. Nevermind.
October 8, 2008 12:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
She is one cold bitch - she didn't even pause when Joe Biden almost broke down last week and then never said one word on the campaign trail of condolence for Joe or his family.
That's just rude - that's not done.
fucking trailer trash - does not have one clue how to act like a decent person.
October 8, 2008 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hesitate to make this my first post, since I so enjoy reading your comments in particular, but I really wish the term "trailer trash" (and its WT/PWT counterparts) weren't thrown around so readily -- or at all. I don't consider myself PC, but that phrase is so classist without having any content. I grew up comfortably, but I am fairly certain that people who grew up in trailer parks because their families couldn't afford better, and who were teased and demeaned by people calling them "trash" because of their poverty, deserve better than to be compared to the tacky ruthless hate-mongerer that is Sarah Palin.
October 8, 2008 1:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Iam not sure it was really that she was being rude its more like she didnt know how to respond because she didnt have a talking point on her card that told her what to say.
October 8, 2008 1:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll co-sign the criticism against "trailer trash" - I spent the first couple years of my life in one.
I believe the term is laden with a large element of classist discrimination. There are plenty of decent people that live, or have lived, in trailers.
"Sociopath" is a much better term to my mind - it encompasses the degeneracy of poor and rich white psychos without those icky class-based insults.
October 8, 2008 8:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Shorter Greg Sargent: Obama won hands down.
October 8, 2008 12:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, after that debate I'm definitely going to have a good night sleep...and with that..g'nite.
October 8, 2008 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yah, me too.
G'night, Mike.
Good night everyone else -
October 8, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good night Tena!
October 8, 2008 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good night sweet peeps. Great talking to such a fine group of folks.
October 8, 2008 1:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Pat Buchanan just did a flip-flop and declared Obama the winner.
October 8, 2008 12:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is about how I feel about the debate tonight
October 8, 2008 12:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh yeah! P-Funk!
October 8, 2008 1:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is how I feel about tonight; "That One 2008!"
In all reality, this should become the new slogan, "That One '08".
Cheers! Chris
October 8, 2008 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, Low-key ? Did you watch the debate at all ?
It was a mauling and the old guy has already waved a palinesque white flag by leaving the building. 'nuff said.
October 8, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Daily Show talks about the stupid vote. A must see.
October 8, 2008 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
It ain't outside the realm of possibility that
Bush could resign following the election and hand over the reigns for a one point five month Cheney presidency.
In equal measure, it sure isn't impossible that McShit could abandon and renounce his candidacy between now and the election and leave it to the Repub heirarchy to decide if Palin would be their main gal.
Both of them are the type to pull such stunts and say "Here's shit in your eye!"
October 8, 2008 1:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain will never give up on his ambition.
October 8, 2008 1:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain has not handled his own emotions effectively. He is fundamentally quite narcissistic and histrionic, and craves the heroic drama, not the gutter. He wants what his father and grandfather had, but really knows he is fraudulent deep down. He is a bright man and has always been able to talk his way out of things, or into things. Not now. Sad for him, but it has been quite a ride. Hopefully the closet racists won't make fools of us all on election day.
October 8, 2008 1:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought Obama started slow, but warmed up really nicely, particularly on taxes and health care. He did better today on foreign policy than he did in the first debate.
If there was one area where I was disappointed, it was the Russia question. I just wish Sen. Obama would push back on McCain's belligerent and ill-informed view on the Russia-Georgia conflict. It was far less black and white than Sen. McCain makes it out to be, with Georgia's president and the Bush Administration deserving a share of blame (along with Russia). A NY Times article on Monday laid out in some detail how Georgia is not really a shining beacon of democracy McCain makes it out to be.
If anything, that conflict shows the danger of pushing NATO to Russian borders and the nuance that the U.S. - Russia relationship requires. McCain clearly does not get it and I wish Obama would take more of a stand on this issue.
October 8, 2008 1:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't feel "sad for him". Ever. Pathetic pity *maybe* as a human who could never figure out how to deal with his demons.
BUT, this is superceded by my concern for his fitness to be president and on all accounts, he fails. Primarily because of Palin.
October 8, 2008 1:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry. Meant for ric78464...
October 8, 2008 1:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama was presidential.
McCain was flintstonian.
October 8, 2008 1:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow!
I will forever be surprised by the lack of research Americans do before speaking their minds! Obama= Wants to kill 9 month old babies according to history! Obama= No experiance leading! (least experiance of any canidate this far in race)Obama= plans to raise tax on small buisness in a recession (research Hoover's actions in recession turned into recession!)
Obama=preached the same objective leaders chose when liberating Afghanistan resulting in Taliban take over! (leave a bad situation before resolve)Obama= attends church preaching hate toward America! Obama= Good talker-Bad leader! Why has he voted "present" instead of for or against most Senate bills?
BUSH=Dispite bad 1st term desicions he warned us 4 yrs. ago to regulate Freddy & Fanny while democrates ignored the warning (Democrates voted against regulating bad loans four years ago! Now they spend tax payers $ on bail out!
McCain= Always quick to give strait answers instead of circular bull! Experianced and solid on economic growth!
Take hard earned money from small businesses and they will lay off employees and close doors! Raising taxes in recession=Depression LOOK AT THE US HISTORY!!!!!
Both parties want an end to war and prosperity for all Americans! Who has the experiance and record to back the plan of action?
McCain!
PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!!!!!
October 8, 2008 1:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, aside form your obvious trolling, you don't proofread.
Fail.
Will you stick around to make our list or are you just doing drive-bys tonight? There seem to be far fewer trolls than in he past which must mean that, oh yeah, Obama is on the path to winning over 320 electoral votes!
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. If you are still reading this blog...
October 8, 2008 1:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow!
I will forever be surprised by the lack of research Americans do before speaking their minds! Obama= Wants to kill 9 month old babies according to history! Obama= No experiance leading! (least experiance of any canidate this far in race)Obama= plans to raise tax on small buisness in a recession (research Hoover's actions in recession turned into depression!)
Obama=preached the same objective leaders chose when liberating Afghanistan resulting in Taliban take over! (leave a bad situation before resolve)Obama= attends church preaching hate toward America! Obama= Good talker-Bad leader! Why has he voted "present" instead of for or against most Senate bills?
BUSH=Dispite bad 1st term desicions he warned us 4 yrs. ago to regulate Freddy & Fanny while democrates ignored the warning (Democrates voted against regulating bad loans four years ago! Now they spend tax payers $ on bail out!
McCain= Always quick to give strait answers instead of circular bull! Experianced and solid on economic growth!
Take hard earned money from small businesses and they will lay off employees and close doors! Raising taxes in recession=Depression LOOK AT THE US HISTORY!!!!!
Both parties want an end to war and prosperity for all Americans! Who has the experiance and record to back the plan of action?
McCain!
PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!!!!!
October 8, 2008 1:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
[copy][paste][copy][paste][copy][paste][copy][paste][copy][paste]
October 8, 2008 2:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just a quick follow-up. McCain has turned into a piece of shit.
October 8, 2008 2:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
wow that says it all really I was thinking all day that this might go mccain's why you here on the news this is what he is good at (ok they said the same thing about the foreign policy debate and look how that turned out) but with in 20 mins I was thinking Obama is winning this big time he just looked like a president
the longer this campaign has gone on the more presidential he looks
October 8, 2008 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Pretty simple. There are clear overall impressions from both debates--visuals, anecdotes, etc.
McCain = past
Obama = future
This conventional wisdom should keep solidifying and everybody (i.e., undecideds) like a winner. I'll set a betting line for popular vote--Obama by 8 pts.
October 8, 2008 1:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can't wait to see the electoral college projections over the next few days. Call me an overachiever, but 375 electoral votes may not be hard to crack.
October 8, 2008 2:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
All of Kerry's states plus the bush states now in Obama's column - VA, NC, FL, OH, IA, CO, NM and NV, plus toss-ups IN and MO, give Obama 373 - six short of Clinton's 1996 379.
But Nate at 538.com has three McCain states moving from strong repug to weak repug: Montana, West Virginia and North Dakota. I've even seen repug weakening in Georgia, Arkansas and Louisiana.
400 is not out of the question.
October 8, 2008 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
When asked by the woman in the audience what he doesn't know, Obama could have said "Well I don't know how to speak Chinese, but I've got a feeling that I'm going to need to learn quick!"
Everyone would have howled..
October 8, 2008 1:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Greg Sargent has to grudgingly concede that Obama lost the debate but won it because McCain had to win it decisively in order to avoid losing it.
And this passes for intelligent political analysis.
TPM is tres lame as a journalistic entity. But I will use their free comment feature.
October 8, 2008 3:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
MSNBC started calling this the Dole Moment, that point of calcification in the polls when pictures of Obama in a 3-way with Condi and Phyllis Shaffley would have to emerge to change it, and even then it would be close.
Two events neither camp can control are yet to manifest:
1. Troopergate Report, now that certain witnesses, facing the Klink, got their cracked asses over to Testinomy Hall.
2. The release of W., which is not going to remind anyone how great it was to have the GOP in charge. The MSM political press will give it play for sure.
What I did not hear from Obama tonight I wanted to hear but know it must wait until after this dangerous old coot either scratches his watch or winds his butt.
27 days...
October 8, 2008 3:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain has kinda screwed himself by making his tagline that Obama is incompetent, isn't ready, and is too green to lead, because all Obama has to do to win that argument is show that he IS competent and that he's not naive or over-confident. That's it. And he's done it several times now, and he's getting better at it every time (almost makes you glad Hillary stayed in it as long as she did). The idea behind McCain's strategy is pretty straight-forward, but unfortunately it just isn't working out for him.
Here's the killer, though - the Vice Presidential debate had the same dynamic, in reverse, and Biden beat Palin in debate polls by a fair margin. How? Not by harping on about her inexperience, but by simply engaging her. The experience subtext was already there, just as it has been between Obama and McCain, and all Biden did was let people think it themselves. The McCain campaign is being outclassed so far in these debates.
October 8, 2008 4:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Look for Bill and Hillary to suddenly become Barack's best friends.
October 8, 2008 4:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
If I were married to McCain, an unlikely scenario, we would probably have fought in the car on the way home tonight, because no question I tried to tell him a million times not to try to be funny, it wasn't anything he was good at.
And if I were married to Obama, another unlikely scenario but a far more attractive one, I would be driving home having a hard time not thinking about the curtains.
Nora Ephron~
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nora-ephron/life-in-the-shallow-end_b_132850.html
October 8, 2008 4:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
The bitching about "that one" just goes to show that even the semi-enlightened portion of the electorate still falls victim to the meaningless, bullshit "exasperated sigh & eyeroll" viscerality.
It was a perfectly harmless comment, clearly intended in the "Which one of these two voted with Cheney? No, wrong, it was that one" sense. Granted the entire argument was bullshit, but there was nothing particularly sinister about McCain's phrase.
Plus it makes a fun pivot, as evidenced by at least 18 different "That One '08" logotypes so far.
October 8, 2008 7:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
First Post-debate Obama ad:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/taketh_ad
October 8, 2008 7:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree. I thought Obama had good moments, but was less focused than in the first debate. I thought he won because McCain was overall very weak. But I think we saw more of the primary debater in Obama last night: he got caught up in his desire just to talk through his perspective. He has already demonstrated to folks that he is intelligent and analytic. Since I agree with him on just about every issue, of course I thought he "won," but I do not think it was a landslide.
I think he needs to regroup on strategy at this point and really emphasize his brand again. His brand is as a post-partisan, post culture wars leader. When he lets McCain distract him into talking about petty crap or the past, he misses that opportunity and confuses folks. Since he is so ahead in the polls, I really don't think he needs to reinforce his brand throughout the last month and make people feel good about voting for him. He's proven through these two debates that he's smart and capable enough. Now he needs to ignore McCain and talk to the people.
October 8, 2008 8:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Should be: "I really think he needs to reinforce his brand..."
October 8, 2008 8:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
That there are still concern trolls like ethel around is amusing. This election is now well past the "turn out the lights, the party's over" stage for McCaint. His performance last night was nothing short of disastrous.
But this isn't the time to let up. The goal now should be a landslide big enough to pull in 60 Democratic Senators.
October 8, 2008 8:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was fun to go read what was being posted over at The Corner. They are trying their darndest to make lemonade out what is almost a sure Obama win.
1. Carter in 76, four years of Obama will usher in a new Reagan era (with Palin so I guess that would make it a new Pagan era...)
2. Mebbe it will be so bad that the GOP will sweep back to power in Congress in two years.
I don't pity them since they are on the wrong side of virtually every issue, but it is a "valliant" effort.
Obama '08
Obama '12
Warner '16
October 8, 2008 8:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
It amazes me that they don't realize that Palin is done after this race.
Or maybe I just don't get it, maybe they can resurrect her career after this.
I just find that hard to believe.
October 8, 2008 8:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good observation! They've really dived right into the Kool Aid punch bowl, haven't they?! The fact that a bunch of right wing weirdos want to elect a stupid, mean, lying, ill-educated, conniving, petty beauty queen to something doesn't mean anybody else will! How do they dream they can get a majority of votes? If she is so great,why does she poll so badly?
She is a candidate for W. voters: stupid and rural is better, they reason. Alaska and Texas are filled with such. Such places are Palin's natural habitat. When Stevens gets convicted, maybe she can replace him -- I don't know how the laws in Alaska work. Biden won't need to break many ties with up to 60 Democratic Senators, so he might not see much of her! Ha-ha!
October 8, 2008 9:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
And thanks for the tip on The Corner. I always forget to check it out.
Boy, is it High-larious this morning! In particular this:
It was the white-haired dude vs. the cool The Cool Socialist [John J. Miller]
It was the white-haired dude vs. the cool socialist.
This election basically is a referendum on Barack Obama. Americans want to know if they can trust him with the presidency. Each time he puts in a competent debate performance, as he did last night, he takes a step closer to his goal.
A tie goes to the cool socialist.
lol I love the bitterness. Obama's a socialist! A communist! A terrorist! A philanthropist! An ecologist! A psychologist!
October 8, 2008 9:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
OMG not Snooze Warner! And no, he is NOT Bill Clinton in '88.
Prediction: The dem candidate in '16 will be somebody none of us has ever heard of.
Except me. Jack Conway, currently KY Attorney General, Governor in 2011, president in 2016.
October 8, 2008 9:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
According to his own standards Obama should be toast: I'm confident about the American Economy. To say such a thing now show clearly how out of touch Obama is. Yes, I know, LOL but that is precisely the same out of context maneuuver that Obama played on John McCain and a large part of the country fell for it. See NPR fact checking for the full McCain quote and see if you think Obama was lying about McCain and taking his remark just as much out of context. Obama is a Bush class liar.
October 8, 2008 9:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fuck off, dumbass troll.
October 8, 2008 9:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wish I'd said that!
October 8, 2008 9:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well this must be an icky morning for you if that's how you feel!
Not for us!!
October 8, 2008 9:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm retiring my CrabbyCrat avatar. The inner rage that's been fueling my chronic crabbyness is rapidly subsiding. Last night I broke this terrible fever; turns out one can recover from Bushlaria. Just takes an eight year dose of Obamaden. I have an appointment on Nov. 4 for the first shot. My doc tells me that the symptoms won't completely subside until January. At that point, the damage to my body will slowly be undone. They tell me that the physical therapy is a bitch, but there's hope for a full recovery.
Doctors warn Bushlaria is still a major threat to the health of everyone on the planet. Some have a natural immunity while others remain vulnerable.
For me, the best part of recovery is getting back full use of my eyes and ears. Turns out Katie Couric really did do a good job on the Palinterview. I was suffering from a fixed gestalt. I only took in information that fit my view of the MSM. So there's been some improvement by the MotherfuckinShitMongers.
Goodbye CrabbyCrat. Hello MotoCrat
October 8, 2008 9:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't really see any national future for Palin either. Palin is just so much shallower than even W.
Bush sounded at least coherent in 2000 and could handle a follow up question. (I am shivering writing something "positive" about W).
Bye bye Bible Spice. Moose may become an endangered species with her about to have so much free time on her hands.
October 8, 2008 9:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
I almost felt sorry for Magoo until I remembered what's at stake. If the sorry bastard had been applying for a job as night-manager at the local Piggly Wiggly, I'd feel sorry for the poor guy because he's obviously not up to the job. Plus, the comb-over, the sinister papery whisper, all that 'my friends' jive...he'd creep out the customers.
But he's applying for a slightly more important job with a running-mate who is stone fucking crazy. Obama's no great shakes, frankly, but compared to the other option? Jesus, he's a dream come true...
October 8, 2008 9:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain is losing it.
Oh, the webs we weave...
http://thetruthburns.wordpress.com/2008/10/07/the-tragedy-of-maccain/
October 8, 2008 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actully, last night's boring debate was the turning point in the election. I think it convinced just enough independents & wavering Dems that Obama's success in the first debate wasn't a fluke & that he was the man for the job. Both men more or less adequately answered the questions -- but Obama LOOKED more forceful & presidential. I think Obama will increase his lead & put McCain out of the picture as early voting is now or soon will be underway in numerous states. For more on the debate & other aspects of the race, go to RealityChex.com at http://www.realitychex.com
October 8, 2008 9:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure this was already mentioned in these threads a million times, but I was just floored the second McCain looked that kid in the eye and ASSUMED he'd never heard of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae before the last few weeks.
Then topping it off with THAT ONE!
Both times I looked at everyone in the room and said out loud THAT is what the pundits will be screaming blood about post-debate...and I was right! We all were!
October 8, 2008 9:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Forgot the guy's name, too. Guess they all look the same to him.
October 8, 2008 9:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unbelievable.
October 8, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tara,
Thanks for the audio clip - like Bensen did for Quayle with the JFK line, I think we now have THIS campaign's new tag line! :-)
October 8, 2008 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
While it is heartening to see the snap polls give Obama a clear victory in the debate last night, that is likely to mean little to nothing. Remember, debate watchers tend to be people who have a particular interest in politics and those who watched to the end and therefore were polled are the more interested, and more knowledgeable, subset of that group. They are not representative of the electorate, most of whom are only casually interested in politics and therefore susceptible to the negative campaigning that the McCain campaign has been reverting to. With the polls again tightening since they began to work the Ayers connection, the McCain campaign will continue to pound Obama on that connection and others, Palin doing the dirty work. It will be up to the media to give equal time to Biden debunking her.
October 8, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
....and in the most condescending tone possible...to a black guy....after the shit Caribou Barbie's been serving up.... Absolutely dumbfounding that he would let that sort of thing show in that venue.
Did you check out the guy's body language & expression? If looks could kill, the election really would have been over last night. He didn't relax until Obama started talking.
October 8, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink