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Palin's Attack On Obama's Patriotism Legitimizes Questions About The Palins' Association With Group Founded By America-Hating Secessionist

Sarah Palin attacked Obama's patriotism today over his association with former Weatherman Bill Ayers -- a move that makes it perfectly legitimate to raise questions about the Palins' associations with a group founded by an Alaska secessionist who once professed his "hatred for the American government" and cursed our "damn flag."

In Colorado today, Palin seized on the big front-page New York Times story about Ayers and Obama, which concludes that the two men "do not appear to have been close," to launch her most vicious attack yet on the Illinois Senator -- a harbinger of what's to come.

"This is not a man who sees America as you and I do -- as the greatest force for good in the world," Palin said. "This is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country."

If Palin is going to say this, it is now perfectly legitimate to point out that she repeatedly courted a secessionist group founded by someone who openly professed hatred of the American government, cursed our flag, and wanted to secede from the Union. Sarah's husband, Todd Palin, was a member of this group, which continues to venerate that founder to this day, for years.

As you already know, the group is the Alaska Independence Party, which sees as its ultimate goal seceding from the union. Todd was a member, with a brief exception, from 1995 until 2002, according to the Division of Elections in Alaska.

And though Sarah Palin herself was apparently not a member of this group, there's no doubt that she repeatedly courted this secessionist organization over the years. In 1994, Palin attended the group's annual convention, according to witnesses who spoke to ABC News' Jake Tapper. The McCain campaign has confirmed she visited the group's 2000 convention, and she addressed its convention this year, as an incumbent governor whose oath of office includes upholding the Constitution of the United States.

The founder of the AIP was a man named Joe Vogler. Here's what he had to say in a 1991 interview, only a few years before Palin attended its convention: "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government."

He also said this: "And I won't be buried under their damn flag. I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."

Vogler has also said: "I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."

McCain apologists will argue that Sarah Palin was not a member of this group. But Obama wasn't a member of any Ayers anti-American group, either. And again, Palin repeatedly courted the AIP, and her husband was a member for years.

The main takeaway from today's Times story is that Obama's ties to Ayers are, if anything, less substantial than commonly alleged. So if the Ayers association means Obama "palled around" with "terrorists," as Palin put it today, surely Palin can be said to have "palled around" with a secessionist party whose founder openly professed hatred of America.

If Palin is going to directly question Obama's patriotism over his association Ayers, surely all these facts are now fair game and freshly relevant.


296 Comments

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O Greggy, anymore you are just too much fun!

Let's let em rip -

Damn straight. From your lips to Axelrod and Plouffe's ears.

But this sick crap is going to go over like a lead balloon anyway, when voters are terrified about whether they'll be able to feed their kids and keep a roof over their heads.

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Yup. That galloping sound you hear is the small herd of still undecideds running our way as fast as they can.

I think this bullshit only reinforces the feeling in the country that the McCain camp wants to talk about anything except the problems facing Americans today.

The rightwing base is on the verge of checking out for this election. Maybe an all out assault on Obama's character will get enough of them out of their Lazy Boys to prevent McCain from pulling a Mondale in November.

But I'm no longer afraid of this garbage having a significant effect on the race.

On CNN today the way they led into it was to say that they were taking the gloves off. It is being framed as a character attack, rather than the "when we come back, is Obama palling around with terrorists? we'll let you know."

Interesting. I am still perplexed that CNN/360 aired the Fox infomercial with Palin as "news." If Palin won't grant interviews to CNN, should they be giving her free publicity? It's a basic question.

Not to the campaign, but send it to the players in the MSM. That is who will make a story of it. They just need a push.

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Look at the way she put it: ""This is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists..." -- as if America did the paling (or palin', as Sarah would say) around. Which it manifestly is. "Imperfect enough." What a phrase!

Even when she's being vicious, the woman is an incompetent nitwit. Thank god.

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Don't forget "exceptionalism." We're apparently perfect and exceptional. Wow! For some reason we all got born or arrived in this paradise. And now we get to Lord it over the world. And why doesn't Obama see that?

What don't I see it????

You know when I heard her use that phrase, the thought I had was that she didn't understand that the the phrase was coined in the context of scathing criticism.

I really, really hope I am not proven wrong, but I somehow doubt that this will rescue McCain's campaign. The financial system is on fire, and his solution is a mix of confusing statements, absurd grandstanding, and attacks relating to an incredibly tenuous relationship between Obama and Ayers. It'd be one thing if they had this backed by some major policy, even a bad one, but it seems as if they have nothing. Thus, I think the press is more likely to call them on it.

i'm glad palin and mccain are bringing change to washington. it's about time the baseless personal attacks and partisan bickering stopped.

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O Yes! And the Mavericky Tax Reform - by two people who don't pay their taxes.

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Hear! Hear! Who but the laggards could teach us to be on time?

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I don't think the negative stuff is going to work ironically because of the race issue. If people have gotten over that hurdle, I don't think the other stuff sticks. If people have made the choice to embrace diversity and change they aren't going to get scared away by some "terrorist" they've never heard of.

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Yes! Because the hidden subtext is that Obama is not American enough because he is Black. Or maybe because his daddy came from darkest Africa.... (can you hear those drumbeats??? in the jungle???)

Yes, the Obama doesn't see "the same America that you" and I do while speaking to a mostly white crowd. There is a racial undercurrent in that.

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Absolutely correct!

As I pointed out in a similar thread over at KOS:

ANYTHING that the McCain camp tries, they are open to the exactly same charge. They are truly in a Catch-22 situation.

There is NO negative topic that McCain himself is not open to attack on.

They still don't know that there is Google, and that people can type anything onto their browser and get, instantly!, varied views on the McPalin lies.

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And what about John McCain and his "good friend" Gordon Liddy, a "great American" and convicted felon who advocates shooting federal agents?

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EXACTLY!!!!!

AFAIK, Ayers was never charged with anything; never spent time in prison.

McLame is very close to a man who spent 5 Years in the Federal Pen for all kinds of crimes against the United States of America.


What about McCain deep ties to Keating?

Does no one remember the Keating Five and McCain's political wrangling that got him out of the fire of the $50 Billion S&L bailout? Which, ironically, was about the time he became the great 'reformer' that he claims to be.

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I am waiting for Palin/McCain to denounce and renounce Alaska Independence Party & Vogler.

I think the Russert-coined phrase was Denounce and Reject.

Republicans hate America.

""Palin says Obama 'palling around' with terrorists""

Can Hillary now bring the boom down on Palin and just thoroughly decimate her as being unfit and scary?

I saw that smoldering piece of shit Jon Voight being interviewed at that same Sarah Palin rally today, basically smearing Obama. Not for nothing, but if your own children refuse to talk to your sorry ass, why should anyone take your political opinions seriously?

Who is his daughter?

And after this I would suspect, she goes for the big O.

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kawika:

Angelina Jolie is his daughter.

That's why the question...I suspect a BIG Boomerang!

Just shows to go the depth of the steers thought process.
He is not a Maverick he is a STEER!

Jon's Ying Jole's Yang...Chess vs. Checkers!

McCain blew his wad too early. All this shit is like what -- 5 months old?

Now would have been the perfect time to release the "Celebrity" ad. Unfortunately, he's already played that card.

Please, the image of McCain "blowing his wad", as you put it, is somewhat frightening.

Did anyone read over at Huffpost about McCain filing false income tax returns in that he did not report his gambling income, and losses,,,, and now we know, thank you NYT, that he is a compulsive gambler, so he has both something to hide that is also required to be reported to the Infernal Revenooers.

So now we have it,,,,,, both Geezer and Gidget are truly mavericks,,,,, at least in terms of filing true and accurate income tax forms. Whudda thunk? Make a nice TV spot as it relates to the economy, methinks.

Serious note of concern about the go all negitive game plan. That is a dangerous and possibly deadly course. It can, and will, give off 'dog whistles' to all manner of loose screws out there to go after the n_____r in their own way to help out the cause. McCain et al are playing with a man's life here, much more so that the RFK thing in the primaries which was more stupidity than anything else. An ongoing, officially sanctioned demonization of a candidate, let alone a AA candidate is truly a receipe for murder.

McCain needs best step back before it's too late.
Better yet,,,, someone or somehow take him by the nape of the neck and shake some sense into him.

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Tie that right to Palin and the First Dude's being active members of that anti-tax Alaska secessionist wacko group -

I know this has nothing to do with the article above but, why haven't we heard anything about the racist skinheads in Colo during the DNC?
Any information at all?
Sure looks like it WAS organized, denied by Colo officials.

I don't think there is really much of a point in going after Palin on this stuff. The McCain camp may not realize it yet but she is really just a bit player on all of this now. The voters who count don't really take her seriously and the crap about Ayers is pretty transparently stupid even if they did.

I get that everyone has got the fighting spirit now but honestly, this particular bit of nonsense isn't worth sweating. Ignore her.

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Well that's your opinion.

So far I've been told: you can't attack Palin for any reason; you cannot talk about her kids; you can't say she's dumb; you can't talk about troopergate, you can't talk about this, you can't talk about that - this isn't worth it, this is cheap -

Fuck all that - every piece of information is worth something to the American electorate in order that it can make an informed decision.

What is with this goddamn censorship all the time?

LOL. I haven't the slightest idea where censorship comes into this at all. My point was pretty simple: Obama/Biden doesn't have much to gain from attacking Palin on this. She is pretty irrelevant at this point. Indeed the idea that she ever was especially relevant was mostly an illusion. Obama's team has had the right approach all along which is to pretty much ignore her and let her expose her own ignorance and lack of qualification. Other than a few horny wingnuts, she is not really convincing anyone.

Now for some reason, my relatively innocuous suggestion has you in some sort of high dudgeon about censorship. So let me just say that if you feel so strongly that Palin ought to be treated as some sort of dangerous nemesis and that every piece of possibly negative info needs to be chased down and dragged into the light, than by all means have at it. In terms of convincing anyone to vote for Obama, I have no idea what you think you will be achieving but hey, its your time and it goes without saying that I am not the boss of you.

I feel comfortable that Obama and his people will continue to let Palin chase her own tail while they focus on McCain and try to have a grown up discussion with the American people.

Agree with you mostly, but from what I understand some of Obama's gains in the past two weeks have been (in addition to the financial crisis) attributed to people's growing unease with Palin -- her inexperience, vapidity, etc -- and with McCain for picking her. If I remember correctly (and don't hold me to this), this was playing out in states such as Florida with older voters and their skepticism towards this type of thing (like what we saw in the primaries, when they preferred Hillary over the new, relatively untested Obama).

Obama's strategy not to attack her directly has played out well, but it doesn't mean they have to do this indefinitely. Attacking the top of the ticket is more relevant, but she's not exactly America's sweetheart anymore, and if the reason does present itself..

Here's proof that Sarah Palin was a member (and may still be) of the Alaska Independent Party.

Greg, PLEASE check out this video at the 6:00 mark. It's from a meeting of the AIP where the speaker (I believe it's Dexter Clark) says unequivocally that Sarah Palin was a member of the AIP but had to become a Republican "to get along".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NK2sFJebGc

that isn't proof by any definition.

aip had long claimed her as a member, but have no supporting documentation despite their best efforts to support the claim.

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The hell it's not -

If she says she isn't a member, that's evidence otherwise.

The ironic thing about this is, McCain would have *no problem* putting up ads insinuating that Obama was a member if the situation were reversed...

Yes. It drips with irony doesn't it? For the last 8 years I've been saying that irony is dead for this very reason.

Essentially, I've arrived at the conclusion - maybe we should call it the Tena Principle, since she so often says this - that whatever a Republican says out loud you can safely assume that the exact opposite is the truth.

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Tena Principle.

Has a nice ring to it.

Sarah, what do you think of the Tena Principle?

uh... in what respect, Charlie???

anyone can SAY that palin is a member. they can SAY she has fifteen toes and a vestigal tail. saying something is proof of nothing.

aip has been unable to provide any documentation to support their previous claims that she was an official member of the party. party membership is a very specific claim and is distinct from party association and party identification. party membership requires a paper trail.

Since the First Dude seems to run Alaska, I guess it's guilt by association in spades for Sarah. No question about his membership.

'evidence' and 'proof' are two very different matters.

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agreed - and I should have said it was evidence rather than proof.

And it is and so is everything else that has come out about their association with this group which is pretty clearly more than just a passing glance.

indeed.

What's next?

She actually hates mooseburgers?

Never referred to Todd as First Dude?

Can't stand being called a Maverick?

Some people fib to get by in the world (e.g. you look great in that outfit). Others lie when the truth would be swell enough. She clearly falls into the later category. I'd argue she's being told to tell these tall stories and has neither the dignity nor backbone to say no.

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Where's the evidence that Barack, as a 9 year-old, was a member of the Weather Underground?

And for that matter, what about the fact that Ayers has turned his life around and does good works for society? Isn't that kind of like McCain turning his life around after he got away with selling his votes to Charles Keating?

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That only works if you're a Republican.

She must have practiced that line quite a bit to have delivered it so cleanly. It's amazing that this tart is now going to throw bombs while going into hiding from the press.

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