Obama Makes Economic Case Against Iraq War
An interesting dynamic: The heavy focus on economics tonight allows Obama to more directly criticize the Iraq War in economic terms, focusing on the huge amount of money we're spending on it, something that is probably way more vivid given the economic meltdown than it once might have been.
Obama, in the context of the night's argument about the economy, made the case against the war as a strain on our economy, pointing out that we're spending $10 billion a month and are on track to spending over a trillion dollars overall.
Notably, CNN's dial charts were soaring during that stretch.
Right now, Obama seems to be winning, and even if he does prevail by a modest margin, it's a huge loss for McCain.
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If he "seems" to be winning now, when in a previous debate McCain seemed to be winning...
Does that mean he is crushing?
October 7, 2008 10:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Town Hall style was suppose to be McCain's strength, but BO is more than holding his own.
I dont know if its the lighting there, but McCain looks old. The contrast is startling.
October 7, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not his stength anymore.
October 7, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's fighting with his "filthy rape and Janet Reno jokes" hand tied behind his back.
October 7, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
But my grandpappy was an Admiral!
October 7, 2008 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hardly-
I keep saying this cause it's obviously true - Obama in person is just killer - this really is a format that lets his ability to connect with people shine.
October 7, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. Obama clearly won this debate. On policy substance, rebuttals/defense, and projecting confidence and fluidity.
The idea this was McCain's format... Stiff as a board. Stumbling a bit, and kind of cranky.
McCain good in town halls? Maybe. Maybe TV could have been Nixon's preferred format too... if not for comparison with JFK.
On policy matters, McCain loses. It's not even close and he knows it. Especially the economy where his entire record is of deregulation and supply-side trickle down. His record on Iraq, surge or no, is of backing GW Bush and Cheney with rosey predictions fed them by the same neocon advisers.
In regards to character attacks and "taking the gloves off" I knew it wouldn't happen. Not even McCain is that dumb and he knows Obama could take him apart if he goes there. Ayers? how about Palin's wingnut family and Alaskan secession? Pastors? How about McCain denouncing the religious right in 2000 only to kiss the ring in 2008? Does McCain really want to discuss the Keating Five on National TV?
For all McCain's bluster, he doesn't want to invite Obama to deconstruct him before a national audience.
McCain should be happy Obama is a pragmatist and smart enough to realize it ultimately benefits Obama to let McCain lose gracefully. A lesser candidate would demolish McCain.
October 7, 2008 11:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was his strength when it was Republican audiences that appreciated his rightwing talking points.
You know "drill baby drill"
October 7, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain: I agree with Obama but I don't think we should say it.... Though I just agreed with him so iam really saying that i would do it as well... sooo ummmm yeah, Obama sucks.
October 7, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain is so screwing up the "Pakistan talking points."TM
October 7, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain's jokes are meh but they're really murdered on the delivery.
October 7, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, just horrible.
October 7, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
He really really shouldn't. Ever.
October 7, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I may need hair plugs. heh...heh... errm.. uh....
(ouch)
October 7, 2008 11:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, this is a key exchange. This is McCain's turf, and if Obama can prove that he's comfortable talking about topics like this in an informal setting, it'll go a long way toward solidifying his support.
Uhh oh. McCain just stepped in it by bringing up "announcing" targets. I sense a bomb bomb bomb ditty coming up soon.
October 7, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
BAM!
October 7, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
speak softly... expect when talking about other countries like Iran.
October 7, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
KILLED him on the "speaking softly" bullshit.
That shut McCain up cold.
October 7, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Put him on ice, baby.
October 7, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn! Obama hit McCain hard! He'll feel that one in the morning!
October 7, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
That'll leave a mark, as they say.
October 7, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hammered him on Bomb bomb bomb Iran...
October 7, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Holy Hell, Obama is spanking McCain HARD on Pakistan.
October 7, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, very good.
October 7, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, he looked at Obama.
October 7, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain looks hot.....he could bull-rush Obama
October 7, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
He just keeps saying this BS, I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW. Don't say I KNOW tell us WHAT YOU KNOW. stupid lier.
October 7, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain is coming off as real whiny about this equal time responses.
And the "the Iran comment was a joke" is not a good defense.
October 7, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you know how to do it, why haven't you did it yet.
Acted responsibly his whole military career??
October 7, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is always my thought, if he knows how to fix it, WTF, why hasn't he help do so?
October 7, 2008 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
What? It's not like Obama's going to drop leaflets that say, "OSAMA, RUN!"
October 7, 2008 10:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
I must say, that as much as I enjoy mocking McCain, I find him much easier on the ears than Sarah Palin. For one, he pronounces words like nuclear and Taliban correctly.
Palin is like nails scraping down a blackboard. Deliberately showing off your ignorance is something I find really obnoxious.
-------------------------------------
p.s. McCain: "I know how to get [Osama bin Laden]" Really?
October 7, 2008 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't get the "I know how to get Osama bin Laden"...you gonna put a trail of Reese's Pieces leading to a hole in the ground on the Afghanistan side of the border? Gonna have to go over to Pakistan, buddy.
October 7, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Watch him mention the surge.
October 7, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep called it, even though the commander in Afgan said you cant use that start in Afgan.
October 7, 2008 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Brokaw is wrong! Nader will be our next president.
October 7, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Best McCain gag line of the night: "I'll act responsibly as I did throughout my entire military career."
What a cut-up.
October 7, 2008 10:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL
October 7, 2008 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, act is right, and responsibly is a real cut up, best one liner of the night.
October 7, 2008 11:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another observation:
Anyone notice how this time, McCain and Obama are essentially equals on the FP issues. The first time, Obama had to show he was McCain's equal. This time, it is obvious and a non-issue.
I find it amazing that McCain is unable to win the FP part of the debate. It's not just his strong suit, it's his only one.
October 7, 2008 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
And McWar is still does not get it, and he is losing even more...
Obama is amazing, flawless...
October 7, 2008 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guys -
nobody called new thread.
October 7, 2008 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
new thread...
October 7, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously. There's a New thred.
October 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Boooyahhhh!
October 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
okay, he's right about putin. but he got his ass kicked on pakistan.
October 7, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thus far McCain has said, "I know how to..."
Fix the economy
End the war with victory
Catch Osama bin Laden
Solve our energy crisis
Work in a non-partisan way
Give everyone tax cuts
October 7, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
it's a secret plan. McCain doesn't even know it--that's how secret it is.
October 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
ALL SIX pundits on CNN are giving the victory to Obama so far.
October 7, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the update!
October 7, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
It looks like CNN's John King is the current pundit outlier as he is on the fence so far. The other five indicate Obama is winning, in their opinion.
October 7, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even Bennett and Castellanos, both Republicans, called it for Obama.
October 7, 2008 10:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
KGB, Putin, looked into his eyes? This guy is whacked.
October 7, 2008 10:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
He made a funny once, at a Georgetown cocktail party, and he won't let it go.
October 7, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's a little weird.
Sure, Putin is a bad guy. But doesn't make it any easier to deal with Russia when you badmouth their leader.
October 7, 2008 10:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
No - the more he talks about Russia, the older he seems - I swear to god I saw the audience thinking: What is this, 1963?
October 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tena did you catch the lines "cool hands at the tiller" and "steady hands at the tiller"? So good he used them twice.
October 7, 2008 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Has it become clear to anyone esle that McCain's answer to every foreign policy question is "General Patraeus says"?
October 7, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
except those that have the word "surge" in them. Bonus points for a sentence with both.
October 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Triple for my friends.
October 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Begging for Obama to reply, "Well why don't you just MARRY GENERAL PETRAEUS?!"
October 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
new thread up
October 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
strong tie-in between russia and energy.
October 7, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just say No.
October 7, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've been waiting my whole life for this. Maybe I will go turn the set on. But no sound!
October 7, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm so glad the media has played up the townhall debate as McLame's strength because he looks absolutely horrible there. If this is his strong suit, we've been sorely mislead. Obama just looks so damn cool and comfortable in this setting.
BTW, why does McCain have a mic if he doesn't use it?
October 7, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I begin to think that McCain has a little crush going on for GENERAL PETRAEUS. Those seem to be his two favorite words after MY FRIENDS, that is.
October 7, 2008 10:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Total flat line for McLame on his "no preconditions" comment..again, every time I see him dig Obama..his liine goes down.
October 7, 2008 10:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Am I correct in not seeing a single non-white person in the room besides Obama? I can't be right about that, right?
October 7, 2008 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
there are some minority people in the audience. Two African American people (one woman, one man) have actually asked questions.
October 7, 2008 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're right, you can't be right. haha There is an African American female to Obama's right at the top of the stands.
October 7, 2008 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
One of the first questions in section F was a black male I believe.
October 7, 2008 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Senator Obama closed the deal tonight...
October 7, 2008 10:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain's "we need a cool hand at the tiller" line was his favorite, he probably had T-shirts made with that at the Montgomery Burns gift shop. No one's hands are cooler than McLame's corpse like appendages. My god he's old!
October 7, 2008 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
All without actually saying POW...but his lines if 30-40%...while Obama's was 80-90% throughout.
October 7, 2008 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now it's STEADY HAND AT THE TILLER! He loves that line.
October 7, 2008 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I notice multiple people requesting pictures with Obama..none yet with MCCain.
October 7, 2008 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not that anyone is waiting for my call. But so far the easiest one to call: Obama Won.
Hands down.
I'm proud of him. Lets roll the polls.
October 7, 2008 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hands down? Or cooler hands? Are they gripping the tiller?
October 7, 2008 10:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Blitzer on CNN just said that it was apparent during the debate that McCain had disdain for Obmama..no kidding!
October 7, 2008 10:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, there's a few in the audience.
October 7, 2008 10:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
From what I am watching on CSPAN Obama and his wife are still working the crowd with many people requesting pictures and McCain and Cindy are no where to be found...maybe a "tell" on how these uncomitted voters view the winner of this debate?
October 7, 2008 10:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I knew I couldn't be right, thank Goddess. That would have been too much.
October 7, 2008 10:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain refused Obama to shake hands..? interesting
October 7, 2008 10:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
As much as Brokaw tried to throw it for McCain, Obama clearly had it all together tonight.
What is up with asking a yes or no question in a Presidential debate?
October 7, 2008 10:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
My 10 yr old pointed out that it looked like the audience was smiling a lot more when Obama spoke. Think he may be right.
October 7, 2008 10:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
If I were Bin Laden, I'd be afraid of Obama... very afraid.
McCain's breathing was labored and he seemed to be out of breath at times... he was pretty awkward... at times he seemed to be reciting his life history as if it were a series of hollow script lines.
McCain slipped in a cheap shot after the bell on healthcare with all the tonality and body language of a troll.
Obama delivered knockout punches. Obama won.
October 7, 2008 10:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
MSNBC focus group 60-40 for Obama
October 7, 2008 10:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
From:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/that-one.html
Tuesday, October 07, 2008
"That One"
What a very odd thing for McCain to say.
McCain repeatedly invoked the need for a "steady hand on the tiller" tonight--for someone who will be calm and cool in the crises that the upcoming years will present us.
Yet this is a man who is utterly unable to contain his contempt--even on a night when, even as Bill Bennett says, he needed to "break through", and even when such a strange expression of disdain could only highlight pettiness, anger and partisanship that voters wish that candidates would steer away from in the greater interest of the nation.
McCain's fundamental position--one from which he finds his momentum and meaning--is so often one of a contemptuous anger for those who do not understand what he has learned. In 8 years of a position that began with an angry, assumed knowledge, we have seen the results.
So this time: choose that one.
Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/10/that-one.html
October 7, 2008 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain telling American people he cares for them and makes sure all of them have affordable health care and Obama slam dunks by saying McCain voted against SCHIP for children.
Also Obama tells Americans how giving insurance companies power to provide health care would allow them to abuse power by moving to states with less regulation or no regulation
October 7, 2008 11:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biggest missed opportunity of the night for Obama:
Brokaw: Who will you select as your Treasury Secretary?
Obama: Tom, I have a short list of a half-dozen highly qualified candidates for this position, each with deep experience in international economics who are capable of leading our financial recovery efforts, but it's way too early to be naming my pick.
However, I can tell you who I will NOT select for my cabinet, and that is Phil Graham.
Mr. Graham, Republican Senator Phil Graham of Texas, who turned investment banker, is one of Senator McCain's campaign’s top advisors, and it was Mr. Grahama who said, and I quote, "Americans have become a bunch of whiners", and "our current economic situation is psychological".
I mean, how out of touch with average Americans can you be? People like Phil Graham, and people like him who believe that Americans are 'whiners' ... well, that's not the America I know, and, when I select my cabinet, people like Phil Graham will NEVER be a part of my administration.
On to victory!
GMax
October 7, 2008 11:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
When McCain mentioned thinning hair Obama should have called him a cunt
October 7, 2008 11:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I'll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. I'll get him. I know how to do it!"
Did anyone hear John McCain say this? you think if he knew how to catch Bin Laden, he would have given Bush and the CIA some tips?
October 7, 2008 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Disappointed in the hawkish stance of both candidates, but at least Obama is willing to talk to them. Sounds like McCain would call them an evil empire and wave his magic wand.
Was it me, or did they both not answer the piece question?
October 7, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink