North Carolina Senate Race Degenerates Into Shouting Match About Atheists
A last-minute attack ad from Sen. Elizabeth Dole (R-NC), who is narrowly trailing Democratic challenger Kay Hagan in all the polls, has the Hagan campaign accusing the Dole team of crossing the line from ordinary mud-slinging into legal defamation -- and the Dole campaign accusing Hagan of trying to deny her allegiance to the Godless atheist agenda.
Here's that ad, which hammers Hagan for holding a fundraiser at the Boston home of a donor who also happens to head up a group called the Godless Americans PAC, a group that stands for pretty much what you'd expect from the name:
"Godless Americans and Kay Hagan -- she hid from cameras, took Godless money. What did Hagan promise in return?" the announcer says, followed by a photo of Hagan mixed with the voice of one of the atheist activists declaring, "There is no God!"
The Hagan campaign has now announced they're seeking a cease-and-desist order, charging that the ad would lead a viewer to believe that it's Hagan herself declaring there is no God -- when in fact she's a regular churchgoer and Sunday school teacher. "Elizabeth Dole is attacking my strong Christian faith," Hagan told reporters.
And the mud-slinging only gets nastier from there.
The Hagan campaign has said the fundraiser in question was hosted by dozens of people -- the atheist activists were involved, but so was John Kerry, along with other big political names. To single out two hosts and tag Hagan with their entire set of political and religious beliefs, they say, is just a desperate attack that proves what a sad situation Dole has found herself in.
Dole spokesman Hogan Gidley, however, told Election Central that the fact remains that out of all the other donors at the fundraiser, the event itself happened at the atheist activist's home -- and this calls into question how Hagan would vote on judicial appointments that can have a major impact on church-state issues.
"What's so interesting is Kay Hagan does go to church, she does teach Sunday school -- but that's what makes this trip even more confusing," Gidley said. "So the real question here is, does Kay Hagan believe in the values of the Godless Americans PAC, or does she put money above principles? Either way, it's not a good fit for North Carolina."
Hagan spokesperson Colleen Flanagan had this to say when informed of Gidley's question: "The true question is does Elizabeth Dole vet her supporters based on their religious beliefs?" Flanagan also said that Hagan didn't even know that the hosts of the fundraiser operated a little-known PAC on the side. "It says so much more about Elizabeth Dole's character and convictions than it does about Kay Hagan's."
Flanagan took especially great exception with the juxtaposition of the atheist activist's voice and Hagan's face. "I don't think you would find one person in North Carolina who thinks that this doesn't cross the line," she said.
"It doesn't claim that," Hogan Gidley told us. "All it says is that she sneaked to Boston, and got money from the Godless Americans PAC. And that's exactly what happened."
Man that Libby Dole is low low low.
October 29, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
OOO weee this is pure slime gutter tactics. I guess Bob doesn't take enough Viagra for Libby to go low at home.
October 29, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Isn't her nickname actually Liddy -- as in G. Gordon?
October 30, 2008 1:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Donate to her opponent, Kay Hagan!
https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/entity/18560
Even if it's just $5, this race is so close!
We can't let Liddy Dole go back to the Senate for another long 6 years!!
October 30, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks. I just did. And now I feel so (gulp) Christian!
October 30, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Atheists: the group it's still acceptable to hate in America*. I forget the numbers offhand, but something like only 40% of Americans would vote for an atheist (if they were otherwise an ideal candidate). The next lowest was homosexuals, at around 60-70%. Go us!
*Not to minimize the very real discrimination people face because of their race/gender/sexuality.
October 29, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Try being a gay atheist. In an interracial relationship, lol. I'm screwed.
And @HusseinTenaX (above), just fyi, she goes by Liddy. And she is pure evil, though I guess that goes without saying about a Republican these days.
October 29, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, and it really makes no sense. Most atheists and agnostics I know are very principled, reflective, empathetic folks who care a lot about humanity and wouldn't be caught dead behaving like the wingnuts. Caring about others doesn't depend on religion. Just as an example, I'd imagine that quite a few of the folks looking out for everyone on the global climate front fall into this camp.
To tell the truth, people who fear atheists or agnostics may be revealing something about their own motivations, and what those would mean in the absence of religion. And I think that some of these types of motivations are on wide display when the wingnuts get all wound up. It isn't a lack of religion that has screwed up our politics as of late.
October 29, 2008 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen, brother!
I'm an atheist (but I prefer to describe myself as a "non-theist" -- right or wrong, the connotation of "atheist" has become "against God" rather than "without God"), and my experience is that most of us are more thoughtful and caring than the majority of those who call themselves "Christians". I believe this is because most people don't arrive at this worldview by default. Most have to think pretty long and hard about it, to "overcome" the default choice presented by their parents and grandparents, and choose a more difficult path for themselves.
I'm hetero and white and a middle-aged professional. I don't know first hand the kind of prejudice that others have experienced. But I do know that theman1086 is right -- ours is the last minority that it's 100% okay to openly denigrate and hate.
If asked directly, I won't lie. But I don't lead with my atheism. I could be accused of being halfway in the closet. Because the ignorance of most people of faith is not worth fighting.
But, as I always say to my atheist brethren, keep the faith!
-- ARG
October 29, 2008 11:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm out as an atheist because, as I've learned from other friends, silence equals death, which for atheists, is a long long time. I don't get any get out of jail free cards, or do-overs in case of death--this is it. Life is a precious gift and I don't want it wasted, or to live it in fear. This is it. Religion is just a story in which fans have so much invested that they have to insist the rest of us all believe it's non-fiction or so much the worse for us.
My spouse and I are raising our children without religion. They've learned that gods and monsters are equally imaginary amusements and figments in stories, as implausible as any other bit of make-believe, and they're healthier for it. I don't believe in any awesome blue-state gods, nor do I think Liddy Dole's opponent is any more awesome for her right to be indignant at being called an atheist. Had Liddy Dole called her the product of miscegenation or a lesbian, the slur would have been no closer to the truth, but even today, it is not as bad to be one of those as it is to be an atheist. So long as atheists skulk about and hide, and don't talk about how and why they came to become atheists (atheism is, after all, a conclusion rather than a premise), we'll continue to be regarded with less respect than religious snake-oil salesmen and other exploiters of newage sewage.
October 30, 2008 1:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
"My spouse and I are raising our children without religion. They've learned that gods and monsters are equally imaginary amusements and figments in stories, as implausible as any other bit of make-believe, and they're healthier for it."
Amen to that. I wrote extensively on this very same topic on my blog.
October 30, 2008 9:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Since you are living in Buffalo, you probably know about the Council for Secular Humanism:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/
And The Center for Inquiry:
http://www.centerforinquiry.net/
-- ARG
October 30, 2008 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I’m out as an atheist because the alternative is so fucking ridiculous.
October 30, 2008 9:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ha! So true. I hate the question "what religion are you"?
Er, I'm sorry, I don't have an imaginary friend.
October 30, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
And the last two comments prove that, just like discriminating against atheists is acceptable in some parts of society, discrimination against the religious is also acceptable in some parts of society.
"Fucking ridiculous"? "Imaginary Friend"
Thanks for respecting my beliefs.
FWIW, I am a long time progressive, an Obama volunteer, and also a religious person. Indeed, it is those religious values which reinforce my progressive world view. "Fucking ridiculous"?
October 30, 2008 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for respecting my beliefs.
I have no intention of respecting your beliefs. I respect, and will fight to protect your right to hold your beliefs, because that's the core of what it means to me to be an American, but beliefs, especially beliefs that are unsupportable by observation or evidence, are unworthy of anybody's respect.
Your beliefs are yours. I don't expect you to be convinced by reason to abandon them, but I have to say this about religion and it being the source of morality. You imply that I cannot be moral without religion when you credit religion with your morality. What kind of morality is it that makes one do the right thing only out of the fear of eternal punishment? Religion bears the same relationship to morality that Dumbo's feather has with his ability to fly. To demand that I respect the belief that teaching stories are also non-fiction is a no-sale, but you're every bit as entitled to your beliefs as I am to my withholding respect for them. I'd rather respect you than respect your beliefs.
October 30, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
An amendment, you didn't claim religion informed your morality, but your progressive views. I'll take it, whatever way got you to where you are, I'm glad. But the social contract and doing as you'd be done by doesn't collapse in the absence of religion, any more than a moral nature does.
October 30, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
You imply that I cannot be moral without religion when you credit religion with your morality.
I did no such thing. If I claim that my morality came from my particular upbringing (e.g., single parent, or poor, or rich, or two parent, religion X, religion Y, whatever), am I claiming that those who do not have my upbringing cannot be moral? Absolutely not.
beliefs that are unsupportable by observation or evidence, are unworthy of anybody's respect.
Well, for one, you don't know what my beliefs are. Secondly, "atheism" is also unsupported by observation or evidence (it's impossible to prove a negative). Thirdly, the Universe exists, and there's no way to prove whether it was always here, or was created.
Fourthly, your assertion that my beliefs are unworthy of anybody's respect is, actually, quite insulting if you think about it.
It doesn't sound the least bit open-minded at all.
I thought we'd respectfully disagree. But you insist on disrespectfully disagreeing (and assert that everyone else in the world should also disrespectfully disagree with me). That's too bad.
October 30, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fucking ridiculous is putting it mildly. It's fiction produced by humans and utterly unsubstantiated. And don't talk to me about faith. Faith is a statement of ignorance. I'm not going to broach the subject of respect - I don't know you - but you should realize that from an atheist’s point of view religion is the low point of human civilization. We'll try to tolerate it until its ultimate demise.
October 30, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
This part of the thread is pretty much what I had in mind when I said (just downthread from here)
It is challenging for most people to discuss this topic without becoming disrespectful and/or offended.
Some people enjoy heated arguments. Me, not so much.
-- ARG
October 30, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Faith is a statement of ignorance
My, my. Obama must be pretty ignorant, then, eh?
Not a whole lot of tolerance in this thread, I regretfully see.
I have neither insulted you nor your beliefs. Yet you profess to know mine and insult them as well as me. You sound eerily similar to the RW intolerant religious fundamentalists you like to attack.
Do you see anything wrong with this picture?
October 30, 2008 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Secondly, 'atheism' is also unsupported by observation or evidence (it's impossible to prove a negative). "
Okay, first of all, the problem here is that you're misrepresenting a quote from Bertrand Russell's book, "Why I am Not a Christian". I highly recommend it.
Atheism is exactly CONTRARY to this. We believe it what IS supported by evidence. We can't disprove a god --- because you can't disprove a negative. That was Russell's point.
As an Athiest, I would never ask you to believe in anything I can't prove.
I choose not to believe in god because there is no evidence that supports his existance; there is not a need to invoke a god to explain how things came to be the way they are. This was true in the past, when we weren't as advanced as we are today.
Likewise, while I personally think that all religious minded folks fall on a scale of craziness somewhere between delusional and dangerous, my sociopolitical views are that the vast majority of people somehow need their religion, and I don't see anything wrong with it for the most part. Until your religious beliefs lead you to blow up abortion clinics or office buildings--then I've got a problem. But the vast majority of religion is mostly harmless; old ladies lighting candles, young men confessing their sins, girls raising up their hands and praising god--none of it pragmatic, but mostly harmless.
Perhaps a good thing to compare it to is alcohol. Drink a little and you get buzzed. Drink a lot and you get drunk. Drink too much and you get dead.
I prefer to stay sober.
I would, however, fight for a person's right to their religious beliefs--I'd like to see that reworded so that NOT having a belief is just as valid an option, but I digress. I'm not and extremist who feels that god needs to be ripped out of our currency, pledge, etc--I think it's kind of quaint.
Religious clampdowns never work, anyway; the only way you can control a religion is by monitoring people every step of every day, and that's just facism.
October 31, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm out as an atheist because, as I've learned from other friends, silence equals death, which for atheists, is a long long time. I don't get any get out of jail free cards, or do-overs in case of death--this is it. Life is a precious gift and I don't want it wasted, or to live it in fear. This is it. Religion is just a story in which fans have so much invested that they have to insist the rest of us all believe it's non-fiction or so much the worse for us.
My spouse and I are raising our children without religion. They've learned that gods and monsters are equally imaginary amusements and figments in stories, as implausible as any other bit of make-believe, and they're healthier for it. I don't believe in any awesome blue-state gods, nor do I think Liddy Dole's opponent is any more awesome for her right to be indignant at being called an atheist. Had Liddy Dole called her the product of miscegenation or a lesbian, the slur would have been no closer to the truth, but even today, it is not as bad to be one of those as it is to be an atheist. So long as atheists skulk about and hide, and don't talk about how and why they came to become atheists (atheism is, after all, a conclusion rather than a premise), we'll continue to be regarded with less respect than religious snake-oil salesmen and other exploiters of newage sewage.
October 30, 2008 1:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm encouraged to hear from all of you who are "out". As I said, I'm not hiding anything. I'm not truly in the closet. But I also don't advertise my atheism, especially here at work. (Same with my politics -- here it might be worse to be a Democrat than an atheist!)
It's not that I'm embarrased. I've just learned by experience that having this conversation with True Believers -- of either the religious or political variety -- is usually not fruitful.
-- ARG
October 30, 2008 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I'm an atheist (but I prefer to describe myself as a "non-theist" -- right or wrong, the connotation of "atheist" has become "against God" rather than "without God")..."
While I share your basic point about the misconceptions concerning atheism, you're mistaken about the a- prefix.
"Anti-" would be against,; "a-" means without.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
a-6 var. of an- 1 before a consonant, meaning “not,” “without”: amoral; atonal; achromatic.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
October 30, 2008 7:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, bwindrip, but I understand completely what the correct definition of atheist is.
The word I used was "connotation", which means...
connotation
The meaning that a word suggests or implies. A connotation includes the emotions or associations that surround a word. For example, the word modern strictly means “belonging to recent times,” but the word's connotations can include such notions as “new, up to date, experimental.”
The American Heritage® New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition
Copyright © 2005 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Connotation
-- ARG
October 30, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Another Proud and Out Atheist here in Bible-Belt Kentucky, where it is perfectly legal to refuse to hire an atheist or fire someone for being an atheist.
It's also far more socially acceptable to shun atheists than to shun gays, because while you might be able to fight off a homosexual rapist, nothing can protect you from the Shroud of Lethal Evil that will fall on you should you dare to even look upon one of the Ungodly.
And no, I'm not exaggerating. It's actually much, much worse than this.
October 30, 2008 9:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
As a fellow atheist, I hear you. However, I'm unaware of any actual lynchings, nor am I aware of the equivalent of a Matthew Shepard. I'm not saying that it's cool that it's legal and popular to discriminate against us, but I also don't think it's a good idea to suggest that we have it worse than some other groups.
October 30, 2008 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
In the polls I've seen (Pew? can't remember now) it was much lower than that, below 20%. Below Muslims, which is remarkable given that, rational or not, there is at least some sort of reason for associating Muslims with anti-Americanism.
October 30, 2008 7:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
What I can't figure out is how voters dumb enough to fall for this tripe manage to read a ballot.
October 29, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where is the thread for Obama's ad?
Where is the commentary for that?
Where is the pushback on CNN 'giving' McCain free ad time on LarryKing while rejecting the Obama ad purchase?
We need someone to put up a thread on this matter. It is quite ugly what CNN is doing.
October 29, 2008 9:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, I just viewed Obama's 30 minute infomercial. That's something that can't go unanswered.
So in due fairness, when will McCain come out with his. I won't be holding my breath waiting for an answer from McCain or his campaign.
October 29, 2008 9:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain had a speech earlier in the day Wednesday cynically talking about the Obama ad (before he knew what it contained) trying to set up the frame of mind in which his followers should watch the ad (if they chose to). Among other things, he said that as people watched it, they should remember that it was paid for by "broken promises"--an attack that I don't really understand, because Obama has not had a chance to live up to his campaign promises yet.
In addition, immediately after Obama's ad, the very first ad on the network I was watching (MSNBC) was McCain's "...Yet" commercial. I can only imagine that this was intentional, and that the McCain campaign paid good money to make sure that his ad was the very next one people saw.
However, that ad is incredibly weak when viewed in the context of his putrid campaign. Let's see, according to McCain Obama's Inexperienced, Obama's a Muslim, Obama's a Terrorist, Obama's a Socialist, and then Obama's not ready to be president ...yet. As if the previous accusations of terrorism and socialism are just things phases he's going through. Whatever McCain.
McCain: Vote for me because you should be scared of the other guy.
ARRRRRGH!
October 30, 2008 9:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
The "broken promises" reference is to Obama's supposed pledge to accept public funding for his campaign.
-- ARG
October 30, 2008 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
On the bright side, the ad motivated me to stop surfing the political blogs and go over to Hagan's Durham office, where I volunteered this afternoon for the first time ever. I work, I pay taxes, I pay my bills on time, I donate to charity, I volunteer, I have no criminal record, I clean up after myself, I respect others, and I manage to do all of that as a godless heathen.
October 29, 2008 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess its time for the Hagan campaign to break out the secret videos of the Doles frolicking at the human sacrifice (the one where Bob OD'd on his Viagra).
October 29, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aren't Christians...cute?
Well, not all of them.
October 29, 2008 10:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, as Colin Powell said about the stupidity of the Obama is Muslim attacks, it's a correct response to say that she isn't an atheist, but it's right to say that it doesn't matter whether she is or not. The 'Who's the bigger Christian?' question that comes up during every major election is ridiculous.
October 29, 2008 10:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Liddy Dole: WWJD.
What Would Jesse do. As in Helms.
October 29, 2008 10:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
A "White Hands" ad for 2008, right down to the timing.
North Carolina's Republican senators, always blazing new trails into the muck. My heart throbs with pride.
October 29, 2008 11:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
You'd think with Jesse and Strom gone, political tone in the Carolinas might advance. But apparently not yet. Maybe soon.
October 30, 2008 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Libby seems Um, grumpy, Bob must not be taking his little blue friend.
October 29, 2008 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, it could be she's grumpy because he is.
October 30, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
And to think I had credited Liddy Dole with having some degree of class. Just goes to show you, when it comes to Republican politicians, any sense of class you get from them is no more than illusion.
She's following right in her predecessor's footsteps, as Moose49 noted. I hope North Carolina won't fall for it this time.
October 30, 2008 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
I hate being accused of believing in things I don't. If I'm a Muslim, I don't want to be accused of being a Christian, or vice versa.
I myself am a Christian, but I'm a leftwing Christian (not just left-leaning). My beliefs have evolved from being typical ignorant hell's fire and brimstone rightwing to being enlightened. I can find things in the bible itself to back up right-wing politics and less dumbed-down reasons for why certain things were written in the bible.
To start off: Adam and Eve weren't the first people. Adam actually, if you look it up, means "man" in Hebrew but it was translated as the name Adam. In the beginning, God created evolution. God created the earth in seven ages/periods of time (not days).
The Urantia book actually adds to these things that I talk about but from a totally different perspective than one could ever imagine anything that backs up some of the bible.
Christians are usually pretty ignorant. At least the ones that shout the loudest.
I'm not looking for anyone to agree with me or to comment on what I believe, I just want to show some of the readers out here that may not know there are interpretations of the bible that people believe that actually has some intelligence involved with it and makes sense more than the "God shit out Adam" story.
October 30, 2008 7:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
To ramble on a little bit more, knowing the bible as I do (pretty decently), Obama has a LOT in common with Jesus. If you know what the bible says, this will make a LOT of sense to you.
Jesus went to red states and stayed in them as much as he possibly could. He went through the crowds to help people. His life was help people. His life was to do what he could for the starving, poor, and sick. He didn't sit around and take things from people and build himself a temple (measured the drapes) to worship himself and to sit idly with a massive ego. He was biased in his own right, for what he believed and wanted people to know what he believed. He sent his followers out to talk to people to to tell what he believed.
The establishment hated him. The traditionalists hated him. The people liked him until their traditionalists that they followed told them he was a fake and then they stopped believing in him and they spit on him.
Coming from where he did, he wanted to perfect and evolve what the traditionalists wanted into something better, but they were so stuck in their ways and felt threatened until finally they did away with him. He was too different. Too revolutionary. They had to hold on to their traditions.
October 30, 2008 7:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
The Urantia book actually adds to these things that I talk about but from a totally different perspective than one could ever imagine anything that backs up some of the bible.
Great, we've got a cultist spouting Day-Age Creationism, and mocking other religions from that perspective.
The Urantia book is a complete hoax. Go to Amazon and check out Martin Gardner's exposure of the crackpots who put it together in Urantia: The Great Cult Mystery, even if you don't care about the subject, Gardner pulled off some great detective work. It was hacked out by the same cultists lampooned in the movie Road to Welleville, who assembled a load of scientesque nonsense to support the Bible. Most of the time they start trying to "reveal" science, they get it completely wrong. When I was young a close friend and his family went totally off the deep end swallowing that bilge.
October 30, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does Dole go to Church every Sunday?
Or does she just parachute into NC every six years?
October 30, 2008 8:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
M Miller....you are MY kinda Christian. Most of those I meet here in the bible belt are the hypocritical kind. Once they leave church, they forget the teachings of Christ. Haven't met many at all who practice what they preach!
October 30, 2008 9:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Walking the thought is what we all ought to spend time on, whatever the religious or non-religious basis of our best aspirations.
October 30, 2008 9:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Liddy Dole is a c*nt for running this ad. There's a special place in hell for an evil woman like her. I have a new slogan for the Rupukelicans...
No Class? No Dignity? No Honor? NO PROBLEM!
October 30, 2008 9:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Involving religious beliefs in political ads should be illegal in this country. George Bush claimed to be born again, yet ask yourself how has this man improved the lives of ordinary Americans? People allow themselves to be manipulated by these emotionally charged issues that have nothing to do with one's ability to govern.
October 30, 2008 9:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hagan "sneaked" into Massachussetts? Is Liddy Dole requiring that Hagan be asked to show her papers before crossing state lines?
October 30, 2008 9:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have a slightly different take on raising kids without religion, speaking as a confirmed atheist. My 7-year old is participating in a children's choir at the nearby Dutch Reformed Church. The pastor at this church is a very interesting dude, extremely liberal, extremely well educated, and in fact open to the atheist's world view. The children's choir is run by a woman with an evangelistic stripe, but I take her to be respectful and therefore harmless.
This is the only exposure my daughter has to the stories of the Bible, when she sings quasi-religious tunes in choir practice and attends service when the group performs (she always ducks out with the rest of the kids after their singing has concluded). In this way she will at least have exposure to the basic arc of western theology, and won't grow to be ignorant of the central tenets.
I hope she'll grow up to make her own choices, and I hope our discussions in future years about the existence of God will be challenging and fruitful.
October 30, 2008 9:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Come on. I mean, are we REALLY surprised by this? This is the woman, after all, that said at the 2004 GOP Convention that "the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion, not freedom from religion."
October 30, 2008 9:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Goodness, and I thought the McCaskill-Talent ad wars here in Missouri were ugly. This really takes the cake. I am not an atheist (as my avatar would indicate), but my parents are atheists and I was raised an atheist, so I still end up taking it rather personally when they get scapegoated as some sort of stand-in for all that is unwholesome and destructive. Sen Dole is, of course, not competing for my (Missouri) vote, but if she were this sort of ad would definitely turn me off. I am tired of politicians trying this divide and conquer strategy of playing one group of citizens off against another. Why would I care if atheists back Hagan?
October 30, 2008 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Elizabeth Dole is a "carpet bagger senator". She moved to NC to run for a vacancy there when hubby Bob Dole lost his political job. Politics is the only means of earning an income they know!
October 30, 2008 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. Blifil, has the Dutch Reformed Church stopped supporting apartheid yet?
If you want to trust your young daughter to those people, that's your affair.
October 30, 2008 10:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is "Liddy" Dole (for clarification). Being from NC and having met Kay Hagan multiple times, I find this ad ridiculous and outrageous. From what I have gathered in my are of NC (one of the most Republican counties in the state), even her own party is opposed to Liddy Dole. She really stands no chance if she has to sink this low to get back in the race.
October 30, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is "Liddy" Dole (for clarification). Being from NC and having met Kay Hagan multiple times, I find this ad ridiculous and outrageous. From what I have gathered in my are of NC (one of the most Republican counties in the state), even her own party is opposed to Liddy Dole. She really stands no chance if she has to sink this low to get back in the race.
October 30, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hello to all the "Out" Atheists. The more out we are, the harder it will be to "demonize" us. Maybe in the next election cycle, this kind of ad won't fly.
At the very least, I hope that people can start to consider that atheists are not intrinsically bad people because they lack of belief in invisible, supernatural beings.
October 30, 2008 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
The next time anyone calls the Dole campaign for more spewings about atheists and opponents (Hagan) . . . Please make sure to ask if the inverted pentagrams on Victor the Victory Elephant
publicly declare that Republicans are minions of Satan.
October 30, 2008 12:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's needed now is an endorsement from Colin Powell saying, "Kay Hagan believes in God and if she didn't, so what? I'd like to think that little 7 year old boys or girls who are not being raised in any religion, can aspire to be president some day."
October 30, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink