I think people approached already having concerns about Palin's understanding of issues and solutions. Because those concerns already existed, Palin's folksiness was far less effective than it has been in the past. People weren't afraid that she "isn't one of us," so her aw-shucks shuffling didn't help her much. On the other hand, people were concerned that she doesn't understand the issues of the day, and she did little to reassure them on that score.

8 years of disaster and major trouble with economy is finally waking up America. Any my god, the "talking points" she dredged up on the cute little note cards in her mind.

I wonder if the economy hasn't been the tipping point already. I wonder if people haven't pretty much already made up their minds.

CNN showing meters for people when he says timelines for withdrawing in Iraq. The lines go UP. When she says "white flag of surrender" the meters go way down. Why does McCain-Palin think the surge and Iraq are winners?

i still believe they negotiated away to much for this debate.

notes???.. they should never be allowed.

and can you imagine 5 minutes of debate after questions?

ok its over , but still it could have been more.

and why is it that 90% of americans still have no idea what palin actually believes or even that she is under investigation?

amazing.

Maverick. Surge. Iraq. White flag. Taxes.
No. Sincerity. Or brains. At all.

I think what happened tonight is that Americans were able to reconcile the Palin from the RNC with the Palin of the Couric interview. And thanks to the internet, Tina Fey, and even some in the MSM the narrative was already there: Palin is strong with talking points, even talking points she doesn't understand, but is lost with out them. She is what she is - and that's your typical 11:00 PM News Anchor/Actor.

I imagine that after about 24 hours of trying to pretend Palin is the bomb, the campaign camp is going to do everything possible to make her disappear. They are going to try and shorten the field and make a last ditch effort to hold the Bush states by trying to tear Obama apart.

Biden revealed what their narrative is going to be to jujitsu this: we might attack your policies but we won't question your motives or worth as a person. And I think that between having the issues on his side and the credit for being classy that he has built up with the American public over the past 18 months, Obama is actually to the point were many American voters are going to react negatively to people attacking him.

First, Biden was AWESOME. Can anyone in America not like this guy??? He was far more *real* than her sham, caricature of folksiness.

Second, this is a good point, and contrary to the MSM conventional wisdom:
"Palin's disastrous interviews raised expectations for her tonight, in the sense that the pressure on her to prove she's ready for the job was even higher than it otherwise might have been. And she didn't prove it, at least according to these early numbers."

I agree. She needed to dispell the negative image of her. I don't think she did. Reading notes, repeating talking points, not answering the question ... people who are skeptical will remain skeptical.

bottom line: who got the sound bites?

hands down, biden. with the "he's not a maverick, and here's why" speech, with the "i haven't heard how mccain differs from bush on ____, i haven't heard how mccain differs from bush on ____," (etc.), and the choking up talking about his sons, it's biden that's going to get all the repetitive SERIOUS replays over the next few days.

her only replays are going to be, "i'm not going to answer the question you asked, but rather the question i PREPPED to answer" type crap. which will be picked apart and laughed at ... and parodied on SNL, by the way.

Republican political veterans Ed Rollins and Carl Bernstein is not drinking the Palin Kool aid on CNN. Ed Rollins just said JM campaign team is not up to par.

Ill like to say Alaska also six pack also maverick also drill also also...
It was driving me insane, like finger nails down a chalk board every time she said some stupid gimmicky thing or said also.

This debate reminds me of a long distance race. It doesn't matter if you cross the finish line first ...it only matters that you cross the finish line.

What Sarah Palin did tonight was help resurrect HER IMAGE, as in the image she will need in 2012 when she runs. What Biden did was FRAME MCCAIN with no sort of pushback from Palin. Biden literally had 90 minutes to tear McCain up and he did just that while making the case for the working class. That performance was............masterful. He is better than Obama at debating.

Well Sarah is sure full of herself over at that post-debate party where she's still throwing out the jabs at Obama and Biden. I guess those digs are from the talking points written on her cue cards that she didn't get to spout in the alloted debate time.

If I hear/read one more pundit applaud her for saying shit like "darn" or "doggone" or "shucks" (I don't even know if she said that one) I'm gong to fucking scream. We're electing a fucking president and vice-president here, not a freaking student council president. I don't think indies are going to buy it. The Corner is gushing but then, she's their gal - the only reason they're excited at all about this race is because of her...they hate and still dont' trust McCain.

She sounded like the Mayor of Wasilla with a handy notepad of neo-con talking points. America, please don't fall for this ruse.

I thought she looked nervouse, scripted, and general clueless. Biden looked like a guy who could step in a be president if need be. And that's the job of the VP. I hope voters saw the same debate I saw. Yeah, she didn't drool and fall down in convulsions. Yeah, she didn't look as bad as she did in the Couric interviews. But she sucked. I mean, she made Dan Qualye look good.

Is that everybody else's take? What are the pundits, snap polls (other than CNN), and focus groups saying.

And for the love of pete, enough with the baby prop. If the kid didn't have Down's Syndrome (and I'm of the opinion that if you know your fetus has Down's Syndrome, you should have the child - I'm pro-choice but I'm also not a woman so it wouldn't be my final call) he'd be in freaking bed. I think their exploitation of that infant is shameless and horrible. Do people outside of the fundie crowd fall for that silliness?

i am going to puke if i hear that she is "folksy" again. she didn't answer guestions!!! this is the only exposure that we are going to get to her (since she won't do press conferences) and she won't answer the questions. not a good showing for her and i think as people digest this it won't go over well with the electorate.

Can Palin please go away now?

Well, I'm pleased with Joe's performance. Why go after Palin and attack her head on? The risks are way too high. Sure, 99% of the people on here would immediately agree with every point Joe would make (as would I), but then he'd be taking a huge, huge risk for very little gain.

Palin was already down near the dirt. She spoke like a human - an uber folksy twit, but a human - and showed people she's maybe not THAT dumb. But, Biden sounded knowledgeable and presidential...kind of like his senior mate.

Yeah, Joe got maybe too specific in the first half hour with numbers, but compared to all of Palin's platitudes and time-wasting talking points she was fed, I think he served the party well.

In three days, I see Biden and Palin going right back into the background with people's perceptions made up. a) I could stomach Biden as an alternative, b) no chance in hell do I want Palin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCunBErZZJE&eurl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/02/sarah-palin-has-an-eyelas_n_131442.html

You tube Palin wink song :)

I would agree, Biden waited until the end to really drive home his point. The last things talked about are the things average viewers will take away.

I think Nate's comment at 538 about Palin's teacher comment was great. That sound you heard was every teacher in America voting for Barack Obama.

Awesome.

I know I am late to this party, but can anybody tell me what "changes" McCain/Palin are actually proposing? I mean at a policy level.

I think Biden took a lot of trite Republican talking points away from McCain tonight. The one on voting not to fund the troops was sunk. The notion of McCain being a maverick was beaten bloody. I betcha lots of people heard Biden's responses to the Republican talking points for the very first time, and recognized him as being a truth teller.

To me the news is that this was an opportunity lost for McCain/Palin. If she's the new voice designed to connect to average voters, this was likely her last, best opportunity to do it. Unless she shifts course and begins giving press conferences or can learn do interview well (with real interviewers), this will be the last connection voters will have to make with her and she blew it.

Voters have clearly shown that they view McCain as bereft of new ideas. Palin was supposed to change this. She didn't (at least not enough) in this debate. Will she make herself available for the press? Given that reputable journalists are likely to follow Gibson and Couric and follow-up when questions go unanswered -- unlike in this debate -- I doubt it. That leaves them with McCain to play tactics while he searches for a strategy.

If there's any lasting image from the debate it will be Biden connecting to voters with his emotional answer about his wife and daughter, followed by Palin's robotic, non-sequitur response. Yeah, she's folksy, but what the f*** is she talking about?

Sarah's big night is soon to become a distant memory -- Judge Michalski just dismissed the lawsuit filed by McCain's cohorts seeking to end Trooper-Gate, and the judge upheld the Alaska legislature's right to issue subpoenas.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jOTk11gvqDAgD0cY3i4WjI_2YOxwD93IMSJG0

Palin did better than I expected, but Biden was really, really, good. Funny thing, I think Biden came of as more likable as well as more knowledgeable.

Actually, I was counting. I stopped in disgust after the fourth one.

McCain was dropping in the polls and I don't think this debate did anything to slow him down.

There are several diaries on KOS reporting that the judge in Alaska has throw out Gov Plain request to halt Troopergate.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/2/233422/819/898/618449
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/2/233819/312/907/618456

And may I add once again, she has lost in 'ing' at the end of words like startin', talkin', electin, etc., and she has all those teachers in her family. Betcha they are one hell of a group of bright ones.

I think Palins strategy was to out middle class roots Bidens middle class roots.

I don't see how she will ever connect with the middle class. Joe is real, people understand him, and his life struggles are compelling. Palin comes across as a material career girl who never really gave of herself, only took for herself. Average people don't identify with that; they hold it as something to not become.

And her jab at the "east coast" well by tommorrow there will be some explaining of that one ( hello New Hampshire and Pennsylvania Sarah doesn't like you ). That is going to come back to haunt her.

And last of all, when your from Alaska you might as well be from Russia, this place is so far removed from the rest of the United States. Note how thin the stories of her life were. People hear Alaska and they think Baked. People hear Ohio they think America ( and hopefully a blue state in a few weeks ).

If they could have drilled a hole into Sarah's cerebellum and siphoned off some of her perkiness, they could have powered the eastern seaboard for several hours. Sarah Palin won my vote hands down-- for the next Fox-8 meteorologist (sorry if I've offended meteorologists). Or maybe she'll take over Elizabeth Hasselbeck's chair on The View, since the other girls are making her cry. I was surprised how reluctant the PBS commentators were to comment on her almost utter lack of concrete specifics, the empty, wordy content of her sentences, and her mangled grammar. Ah, those folksy winks! We've just got to stop greed! However, I was pleased to see her throw Bush under the bus; that will help when Obama starts running all his McBush ads to counter the inevitable Rovian smear campaign that Schmidt is planning. God bless America!

Cokie Roberts on Charlie Rose was amused that Palin was going on about getting government out of the way when the bailout...which will steal tomorrow's headlines...is all about government getting very much in the way.

There was an article EXACTLY about this happening. It talked about how Biden was being ignored so much he could very well steal the show. He did JUST THAT and boy am I fired up about it.

What a delightful moment...stayed up to watch it from France on CNN.
Biden? I'd heard of him, read some articles from relevant sources, but I had never seen him in a debate.

When Palin started talking, I thought "interesting, she does look more energetic and lively than Biden" who was initially not looking at the camera.

Then I realized that he'd been waiting, like a cat.

It was easy game for him. I also subscribe to the fact that the Couric interview did heigthen Palin's expectations, not the contrary. Biden was simply brilliant AND human. She sounded more like a jukebox fed on predigested notes, human indeed, but obviously unprepared for the job she's been choosen for.I mean she would'nt pass a University exam with such confused and off topic answers.

Whereas Biden would be her professor. And that's the way she looked when after the debate they were seen talking together, she looked like a student talking with a professor! (And then that baby propping, argh..... how can you fall in such a trap? Folksy my ass... Talking about family values, aren't babies supposed to sleep at this hour?)

I realized tonight that the Obama-Biden ticket was indeed offering two presidents for the price of one.

It's a perfect timing for the Dem ticket: more Joe Biden exposure is now guaranteed. There will be a Biden effect, which the media will chew on. People will want to hear and read more about that guy. Even the "modern" Reps are impressed, from what I hear and read. And the elections are only 5 weeks aways now. The probability is high that Palin will wear out before him (assuming she didn't get the final knockout tonight already, given the far reaching shockwave that Biden matter-of-factly delivered, with class and a smile).

I want more of Biden!

Biden had some powerful moments during the debate but what I will remember most about this debate is when Biden proclaimed what we Americans have known all along but were afraid to say: Cheney is the most dangerous vice president in this country's history. AND for Sarah Palin to agree with Cheney about increasing the vice president's legislative powers makes me even more convinced that she should never come close to the office of vice president of these United States.

I've always been suspicious of politician who favor a good show over sound(if sometimes boring) political views...

I have this haunting and scary image of the amazing shows the nazis pulled at home before WW2...
...The leaders adressing the masses directly... ...Manipulating them with populist (ahem, sorry, "folksy" is the new term "à la mode").
Putting on more "shows" when they got elected...
...While at war they also wanted to stay(a thousand years),saying victory was their only possible destiny.

The above comparison is not politically correct at all, granted! and I don't believe McCain and Palin share such extremist ideas at all... but...

...We do have a Rep ticket of Creationists who are willing to let us believe that Adam and Eve were hunting dinosaurs for breakfast.

Is THAT correct, politically or not?

If one's willing to seize power shamelessly manipulating that kind of ideological crap, you can expect the worst.
Whatever that may be...

The Education of Sarah Palin

Great insights, everyone! I'm enjoying the read.

Sarah Palin came out of the gate right on cue. She took what she learned and used it in a way that made sense to her and, most likely, her handlers/teachers. I was impressed by her ability to remember key points and keep talking without breaking. About 10 minutes in, I acknowledged that she accomplished all she needed to and I was happy that she realized the gravity of the evening, took it seriously, and tackled it according to her capabilities. Women should be proud of just the mere fact that Palin met the task with gusto, stood on the same stage with a savvy, elder statesman, and did her best to show that she has some sense of intelligence....something I was worried (as a woman) that she would never truly pull off, given this week.

She failed to really answer any questions, she was typical in her deliberate diversions and staying "on point" in her own head. She was all style and little substance. After about 40 minutes, she was sucking the life out of me. I wanted her to breathe, I couldn't breathe, it was like she forgot to take her Ritalin. Bouncing around yet somehow saying the same thing, oxymoronic. I wondered when the chip in her head was going to short out.

Biden was superb. He was deferent yet firm with her. I think he paced himself like a seasoned professional, and I think he really hit his stride toward the middle of the evening and showed veracity. He made many dynamic points with eloquence that seemed effortless for him. I really appreciated when he brought his EXPERIENCE to the debate, that's what I was waiting for. And Darfur, I was gratified to hear his insistence to address the need for action. He brought the debate back to Bush, too, when we needed reminding (could have been a little more about Bush through the night, but I know it's a referendum on McCain in this forum.) And I never heard any "gaffes" from him. The solid Biden I have been watching closely and admiring since Anita Hill.

I think he proved to be the adult and the only one of these two qualified to be One Heartbeat Away from the Presidency. Palin's sophomoric approach and "folksiness" and scripted "digs" wore on me readily. And The WINK? TWICE? Jeesh.

She was outclassed by Joe Biden, but I still give her an C for her efforts, with extra credit for remembering the main points and showing up prepared. Oh, and not relying on "tears"... I was really worried she might have to pull that one out for tonight, and who knows HOW that would have resonated. So bonus points for standing "tall". Finally, thank you, Sarah, for scoring one major moment for Women, but the win goes big to Biden/Obama.

Oh, one more thing:
1. If you can't say NUCLEAR correctly, time after time after time like W., you can't have control of them.
2. Can't believe she actually said, "There you go again".
3. She shouted out to third graders... her peeps?

I am a woman, and a feminist, but i don't quite understand this:'

Women should be proud of just the mere fact that Palin met the task with gusto, stood on the same stage with a savvy, elder statesman, and did her best to show that she has some sense of intelligence....something I was worried (as a woman) that she would never truly pull off, given this week.

This sounds incredibly demeaning to women. Sarah Palin is an idiot. She is an idiot stereotypically, according to her gender, but an idiot nontheless. How she behaved tonight does not make me more or less happy or proud. Women are the intellectual equals of men. There are a lot of stupid men and stupid women. She's way out of her league. But that has nothing to do with her gender...

日本語を分かりますか.

You tell'em Tena.....

I've been a big fan of Biden ever since the hair plugs grew in completely (Joke! Joke!) and especially since he deflated the Guiliani bubble, or helped to, with the line, "Subject, verb, 911." And after his single word answer, "yes," to a question about whether he could control his loquaciousness during a primary debate, he had me completely. Plus, you know, he actually thinks and knows something.

If Palin says "ALSO" one more time someone should deepthroat her with that Alaskan pipeline

I haven't seen any reference to the "There you go, say it ain't so, Joe," zinger.

What exactly was that all about? It was entirely gratuitous.

Team of Mavericks? Oxymoron?

She sounded like a right-wing moron to me. Her folksy persona can't hide the contempt for government. Maybe she thinks everyone just needs a gun so they can go out and get their own meat.

Did she sound like Marge the Cop in the movie "Fargo," or is it just me and everybody I know who thinks that she did?

"Ya see, ya got yer double homicide over here, and then yer high speed chase....you betcha!"

She went to six colleges in six years. That's change we can believe in!!

Now if the repubs don't cheat (many of the corrupt voting machines will be used again this year), we just might win this thing!

We all need to keep the pressure on the Obama camp, though. They still keep making fundamental mistakes by letting certain things go answered which can still be corrected and addressed starting now and with next week's debate:

1. Palin said last night and McCain has, too, that "McCain knows how to win wars". WTF? Really? Which wars has McCain won?

2. The Dems & Obama want to surrender in Iraq. They need to begin showing OUTRAGE over such an inflamatory insulting disgusting false statement.

3. They will increase your taxes. Simply say, "No. You will receive a tax break". Don't get caught up in the minutia of $250k limits. Just saying that statement ALREADY speaks to 95% of Americans.

There is still a LOT of work to do, folks.

This should not be about whether Palin was better than what was expected. Or whether Biden did or didn’t wipe her off the table with his knowledge and experience. It’s about who will be the second most powerful person in Washington. People say the VP decision isn’t that important. I beg to differ. The second most powerful person in the US government and not seen as that important? Do you want to run your company with a good CEO but a CFO who knows nothing of how finances work? Or a COO who knows nothing of commerce? Maybe not.

So I looked at the two candidates with two questions in mind:
1. Who would best be able to help a President achieve the change he is promising?
2. Who do you want to make the decisions and represent your country if the President isn’t there?
That should be easy.
http://angryafrican.net/2008/10/03/biden-vs-palin-you-betcha-or-what-i-want-in-a-vice-president/

Whew. That's over... and thankfully my head didn't explode from Palin's over-rehearsed non-responses, sound bites, dialect, cutesy-ness and WINKS. What serious working woman seeking a higher level job winks at the interview?

What was with Palin's lack of response when Biden spoke of losing his wife and daughter, being a single father, and understanding struggling? She struck me as classless and cold to ignore what he said and go straight to non-response script.

Joe Biden on the other hand was terrific. He focused on Mccain as he should and made some great points. I have confidence he'll be a great VP, restore integrity to that office and be a great asset in the Obama administration.