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Dozens Of Call Center Workers Walk Off Job In Protest Rather Than Read McCain Script Attacking Obama

Some three dozen workers at a telemarketing call center in Indiana walked off the job rather than read an incendiary McCain campaign script attacking Barack Obama, according to two workers at the center and one of their parents.

Nina Williams, a stay-at-home mom in Lake County, Indiana, tells us that her daughter recently called her from her job at the center, upset that she had been asked to read a script attacking Obama for being "dangerously weak on crime," "coddling criminals," and for voting against "protecting children from danger."

Williams' daughter told her that up to 40 of her co-workers had refused to read the script, and had left the call center after supervisors told them that they would have to either read the call or leave, Williams says. The call center is called Americall, and it's located in Hobart, IN.

"They walked out," Williams says of her daughter and her co-workers, adding that they weren't fired but willingly sacrificed pay rather than read the lines. "They were told [by supervisors], `If you all leave, you're not gonna get paid for the rest of the day."

The daughter, who wanted her name withheld fearing retribution from her employer, confirmed the story to us. "It was like at least 40 people," the daughter said. "People thought the script was nasty and they didn't wanna read it."

A second worker at the call center confirmed the episode, saying that "at least 30" workers had walked out after refusing to read the script.

"We were asked to read something saying [Obama and Democrats] were against protecting children from danger," this worker said. "I wouldn't do it. A lot of people left. They thought it was disgusting."

This worker, too, confirmed sacrificing pay to walk out, saying her supervisor told her: "If you don't wanna phone it you can just go home for the day."

The script coincided with this robo-slime call running in other states, but because robocalling is illegal in Indiana it was being read by call center workers.

Representatives at Americall in Indiana, and at the company's corporate headquarters in Naperville, Illinois, didn't return calls for comment.


312 Comments

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Bravo, people.

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This is more of the same. Look at the Republican party putting more people out of work. Some people have ethics; unlike McCain and his party.

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These are the same people the republicans would like to cast as "too lazy to get a job"
How ironic.
I guess there are some jobs americans won't do.
Bravo.

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These are the citizens who truly deserve the Medal of Freedom.

PEACE

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This has been the big worry all the time. This is what the Rev. Wright dust up was all about. If Obama becomes President, the slaves will up and overthrow the plantation. This has been the big worry the whole time.

Now look at what we have here. Obama ain't even Presdent yet, and already uppidy workers are gettin up an' walkin off the job as if they could afford to an' all. This is jus the begginin I tell you. There'll be no end to this. This is the end of civilization as we know it.

(That's all snark - sorry I'm just now reading Huckleberry Finn, and it's to easy to immitate Mark Twain, immitate Finn's father etc...)

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Wonderful book!

Huckleberry isn't a racist. But Tom Sawyer is. Huckleberry is the most amazing character in US fiction.

Don't miss the DVD of Hal Holbrook in "Mark Twain Tonight!"

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Guess they should have hired some "illegal aliens." They'll do any job Americans won't do. (Especially if you only pay them $50/hr.)

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Now, now, it's not the Republican Party--it's the contracted help.

"If you are caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your existence."

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Now, now, it's not the Republican Party--it's the contracted help.

"If you are caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your existence."

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the democratic party in indiana should give each of those people a job.

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Can anyone tell me how to contact the author of this article, or someone in that town?

I'm a member of the Newsvine community, and there are several of us who are following this story and would like to take up a collection to help those workers recoup some of the pay they lost. But we need to arrange with someone in the town to ensure the money is distributed to the right people.

Any contact information would be greatly appreciated. If you don't want to post a number or email here, you can contact me at:

moeloe1126@aol.com

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Can anyone tell me how to contact the author of this article, or someone in that town?

I'm a member of the Newsvine community, and there are several of us who are following this story and would like to take up a collection to help those workers recoup some of the pay they lost. But we need to arrange with someone in the town to ensure the money is distributed to the right people.

Any contact information would be greatly appreciated. If you don't want to post a number or email here, you can contact me at:

moeloe1126@aol.com

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I commend these people! At a time when jobs are scarce, these individuals are true patriots. For that reason this is all the more commendable.

Bravo, brave patriots!

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Yes! Seconded!

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Third'd!

Brave and honorable people, I thank and salute you!

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4th'd. That is truely commendable.

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Wow.  All those people defied a legal order from their supervisors to lie through their teeth and walked off the job?  How un-capitalist!  Need any more proof that Obama and his supporters are just a bunch of Socialists?

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There is no such thing as a 'legal order' that can be issued from an employer. No employer has legal authority specifying any request as legally binding. In all cases employees have the right to comply with or refuse to perform a requested action. An employee can be fired or be subject to other actions as a result of their decision but there is no legally binding aspect to what an employer asks an employee to do.

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I guess for you the alternative was acting like NAZI's saying they were just following orders even though they knew what they were asked to do was unethical.

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Very inspiring. How do we get this story into the MSM? Perhaps Senator Obama might reference it himself?

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Bravo! Yes! some MSM Coverage would be Great! I also think that getting good coverage for these brave (but still poor) people might encourage others to come to their aid...

Some kind of a "strike fund" or charitable gift to help them through this time of personal hardship for them - keep them out of the phone banks for at least this week.

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If one of these folks is named "Joe," the MSM will be all over it.

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Wow! Just wow!!!

I don't think my grin can get any bigger!

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What decency and integrity these people showed.

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So much for the race-baiting/terrorist strategy. These people deserve a call-out in Obama's speech on Wednesday, and not because it would be a way to score political points.

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Some people have pre-defined limits of civility they will not step over no matter what the reason.

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And as demonstrated by the McStain/Pallid ticket, some people don't.

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Change is happening already. Obama's positive campaign is paying huge dividends. Inspiring!

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Co-sign. And what a contrast to the lying, torturing behavior inspired by Smirky/Darth.

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I was wondering how to bring this event meaningfully into the campaign dialogue. I think you've nailed it with the possibile meme of: "Obama's decency and thoughtfulness inspires the same in others." Now isn't that the society we want to live in!!!

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No fair. The Republicans have to quit pulling multiple October Surprises per day! LOL

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I love these stories. I love it that Americans are standing up for decency and the truth and are willing to sacrifice their pay.'

Makes my heart soar -

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Um, you do know these brave workers will, next week, just go back to preying on consumers and telemarketing them with offers of dietary supplements on the patently false promise that by taking Miracle Pill Diet 4000 they can lose 30 pounds in just ten days*? You know that, right?

I guess an imperfect conscience is a conscience nevertheless. I'll give them a golf clap, but that's all.

* Results nowhere near typical.

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Do you not have your number listed on the National Do Not Call List?

I hate telephone solicitors, too. But most of those people are making next to nothing -

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You know, you have to be pretty hard up to take that job in the first place. It was not an easy choice for them.

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I hate those calls, too, but people have to eat. They aren't calling the shots here. They have a choice. Work or starve.

That they did this says a lot for them. Put your blame on their employers, instead, who took the slimy job and who i have no doubt would've fired these people if they could have.

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Actually, many people (including the guy I shave most mornings) make their living doing fundraising calls for good causes. Current roster of organizations my center is calling for:

Planned Parenthood Federation of America
The National Wildlife Federation
The Nature Conservancy
The National Trust for Historic Preservation
The Metropolitan Museum of Art
The American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals
Greenpeace
AmeriCares

And, oh, yeah…

Obama for America.

(Oh, and we only call previous donors. No cold calling.)

Since this center is calling for McCain/Palin, they may normally be calling for more right-of-center charities (Ducks Unlimited? The Heritage Foundation?), or they may simply have hired on for this one particular campaign, but to automatically class them as predatory scam artists is unfounded and IMO insulting.

And, as HusseinTenaX pointed out, signing up for a no-call list will eliminate commercial solicitations (except from companies you've done business with recently), while still allowing you to get calls for organizations you support. If you're being bothered by commercial calls, the solution is easy to implement. JMO.

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Someone has to set the example. Thanks hoosiers.

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Damn right, people! My hat's off to these fine citizens! Good show!

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Palin likes to talk about Real Americans. Well I think someone should introduce her to those call center workers and let her see for herself what a real American looks like.

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Not this year. Not this time.

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I'm humbled. It costs me nothing to mouth off, but these people put their money where their ideals are. And it's not like they get paid so much they won't miss a day's pay.

It might be a small victory, but they're heroes.

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Oh, and when it comes down to the crunch, don't think that the bosses won't remember this.

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Headline: McCain costs workers jobs in Indiana!

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I wish! You you think anyone in the MSM has the balls to run that?

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Good point. Something I've been wondering about, regardless the heading.

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Unbelievable. We're getting into Frank Capra / Norman Rockwell territory here.

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You got that right.

This is nearly as good as the final scene in 'It's A Wonderful Life.'

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What a weird day. It's like all the news has been going the Democrat's way. And I don't think it has anything to do with the "liberal media". This is really what is happening.

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Heh heh, where's SFC with his link that will take me back to reality?

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He'll be back soon enough trying if this story goes MSM.

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SFC has volunteered to pick up the slack in those call centres. Hopefully we won't see him from here onwards.

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Americall is owned by SR Teleperformance, a European company that among other things specialized in outsourced commuications. I'm surprised that the republicans didn't outsource this calling program to India.

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That sounds like a SNL skit waiting to happen... :)

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With the out-source workers in India walking out.

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Don't give them any ideas!

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I got my first political mailing just today. An Ayers postcard from the RNC.

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This was rightous. If you're working in a call center, its not like you can easily afford to walk away from a day's pay.

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Americall - (630) 955-9100

Be nice, but join me in telling these jackasses we're not taking shit like this anymore!

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DuPage Country area code.

Not surprised.

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Americall's main headquarters is in Naperville - the HEART of Republican Country!

Well, outside of Wheaton, that is...like I said earlier in a different post. At least the Chicago metropolitan votes will cancel out the Republican suburban and central/souther IL farmer votes, just like in every election!

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It's really easy to take being a Democrat for granted when you live in the city!

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Ok I've gotta reply to ChicagoJoe. Downstate produced Dick Durbin and a real liberal Dem by the name of Paul Simon.

Over in the "Land o Goshen" ie SW IL the Dem machine is still strong. So go easy on your stereotypes bud.

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Republicans hate us for our freedom.

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You know, they really do. I was just watching the YouTube of Palin speaking where someone shouts out "He's a ni@@@r!"

She was talking about taxes taking people's freedoms away. I am sitting there screaming -" what about freedom of choice for women, you fucking bitch!"

They don't know what the word means.

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Tena: It was at a silent moment in her speech, and the crowd was quiet, in fact, she stumbled on her words right after, which leads me to believe she did hear it and ignore it. Shame on her.

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I know. If she'd stop and say "that is unacceptable", she'd be a freaking hero. But no, she stumbles on....

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Palin couldn't say "that was unacceptable" because it wasn't in the script.

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matyra, Palin couldn't say tell that person using hate speech at her rally that it was "unacceptable" because that wasn't in her script.

Caribou barbie is a complete farse.

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haven't seen that one, do you still have the link?

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Real courage, Real Patriots, Real people and I am inspired!

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I like:
"Real courage. Real integrity. Real sacrifice. Real Americans!!!"

(A response to Sarah's delusional "real america")

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Those people are patriots. Thank you, Indiana.

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Just beautiful. What else can I say. I'm just humbled, inspired.

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God bless all of those people for standing up!

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Amen!

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Just beautiful. I'm humbled.

True Patriots!

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Patriotism, indeed, at it's very best.

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And that's patriotism you can believe in!

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Vive le resistance.

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I hate guard dogs!


You see the distant flames,
They bellow in the night.
You fight in all our names
For what we know is right.
And when you all get shot
And can not carry on,
Though you die,
La Resistance lives on.

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Finally taking back the country from haters! Go Indiana!

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I just called the Obama headquarters in Chicago and told them about this story. They were going to pass it on to the staff who handles these things and I referred them to tpm's website for the story. Yayyyyy

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I hope Obama takes the time to call a few of these folks personally if he can get a hold of them. It would be a great gesture.

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By the way my biggest problem with Palin - her anti-intellectualism, anti-science in this 21st century when China and India are making leaps and strides - I dont like Hitchens but he nailed it

"This is what the Republican Party has done to us this year: It has placed within reach of the Oval Office a woman who is a religious fanatic and a proud, boastful ignoramus. Those who despise science and learning are not anti-elitist. They are morally and intellectually slothful people who are secretly envious of the educated and the cultured. And those who prate of spiritual warfare and demons are not just "people of faith" but theocratic bullies. On Nov. 4, anyone who cares for the Constitution has a clear duty to repudiate this wickedness and stupidity".
http://slate.com/id/2203120

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I am SO GRATEFUL I live in New York - and have been able to avoid the endless ads and robocalls! :)

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Me, too, although on a trip upstate I was happy to see a lot of McCain signs and almost no Obama signs. Just keeping spending money in deep blue states, John, while Obama spends in battleground states.

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Any way we can find out who some of these folks are? I'd like to personally send my thanks, and hey, maybe even a few bucks for giving up their pay.

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They belong at the Dept of Justice! Helping to clean it up.

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It'll get cleaned up. New administration comes in - every person in the federal government resigns. It's usually pro forma, but when the parties change, it's real.

They'll get rid of all those idiots who graduated from Oral Roberts Law School.

They'll straighten it out.

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But it's gonna take a long time. So many good career prosecutors have left. It takes time to build up a good system. These folks, of course, are not lawyers. But you need people with a conscience at every level.

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Unfortunately, under the Bush Abomination, not only the appointments were filled with these religious right ignoramuses, but the career positions as well. That is going to be much harder to rectify. They are not just going to hand in their resignations. This was all done with a very nefarious plan. It will take years to root out all these plants.

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Don't worry because if Obama gets in then he will go ahead and do that for you! Remember....he wants to spread YOUR wealth. Like it or not this man's associations and ideas are very scary. Mark my words he will only make this country worse then it already is and with his new bright idea to cut military spending by another 25% then don't be surprised when we get attacked on our own land again! Then remember that YOU elected in office a man that would not/ could not get military, CIA or FBI clearance because of his radical associations. Plus Barak Hussane Obama...come on people....really? 9-11 wasn't that long ago and you are willing to take this risk?

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Are you so depressed by the latest news on your right leaning sites that you had to come HERE and blow off some steam? Maybe when Obama reaches our highest office he will concoct some socialistic plan to mitigate your anger and hate by spreading it around in small, safe dispersions. Otherwise I might recommend some Klonopin to assist you during the remaining political seizures that are about to rock your world. That is unless your repubs have hacked enough voting machines, purged enough rolls, and labeled enough terrorists, all while wearing the finest of clothing and flag pins.
Will we be a repugocracy or a republic?

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It would be good if we could establish a fund to compensate the call workers for the pay that they lost. I don't know if that's legal, but it should be.

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Perhaps someone should approach Obama to see if his campaign can set something up for people to send donations in for them.

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Very admirable and inspiring.

HEY JOHN MCCAIN - look at these people. THAT'S what it means to have standards and be honorable. You could learn a lot from them.

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I think it's too late for him to learn.

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Honorable folks,they deserve kudos.Great Americans refusing to slime another American with lies.This is just great.

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Talk is cheap. Actions speak louder than words.

I have such great respect for these people, particularly because they may be living paycheck to paycheck. Also, as a loyal phonebanker for Obama at my local headquarters in NJ where we average about 2500 calls a day, I think it really says something that McCain has to hire people to make phone calls on his behalf.

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Kudos to 'em.Upstanding folks they are.

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Standing ovation to people, standing ovation to the conscience of America!

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If McCain were smart...I'm stepping way out on the limb here...he would see his campaign has reached a breaking point. That point where people aren't willing to perform a task even though it will cost them in lost wages if they don't. It's an indication the issue has been pushed too far and people are starting to rebel at a conscience level. This is nothing more than a leak in the dam wall now. Bu if he doesn't stop to repair the leak, the whole dam will collapse fairly quickly.

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It would/will burst regardless, if the MSM covers/covered this like it did Ayers.

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The only way to plug the leak is to back off the negative robo-calls..which he won't do, so the dam is gonna explode. Think of Hoover dam there between Arizona and Nevada filled to the top and all of a sudden the entire face of the dam collapses. I wouldn't want to be fishing along the shore line down river if that were to happen.

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I think you're right about the tipping point.

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This has been an unbelievable couple of months for the GOP. It's like they can't cross the street without tripping.

The Palin trainwreck, the financial meltdown, McCain's suspended campaign, centrist Republicans defecting, circular firing squads inside the McCain campaign, GOP senator in a close race convicted . . .

How could things get any worse for them?

That's a real question, folks. Any ideas?

It would have to be pretty spectacular to beat their current run of bad luck. Maybe if one of the principals on the ticket confessed to a gay affair with an Al Qaeda operative. Anything short of that is going to be "ho-hum" at this point.

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How could things get any worse for them?

They can loose the White House, the ability to filibuster in the Senate and 20+ seats in the Congress. That would the icing on the cake.

But I see your point. This morning I was in worrisome mode feeling Obama is not doing enough to push back the "Socialist" crap. I forgot GOP is a gift that keeps on giving.

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Just watch.

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Ummm, howz 'bout if Focks News ratings took a nose-dive?

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I know O'Reilly's ratings have dived. Or had. Last ratings period he was 3d below Keith and Rachel.

O that one is a schadenfreude symphony!~

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"Billo the Clown" was third in the key 25-54 demographic in those ratings, not third overall. But still, good news for Keith and Rachel.

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How could things get any worse for them?

McLame and Palin get caught in a 3-way with the First Dude?

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Man...

That mental image is really disturbing. I don't think I'm going to be able to eat after that!

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Caught by Cindy? There goes the money train!

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Noooo... McShit & Palin caught in a 3-way with Joe The Plumber. Not hard to imagine after the way McMajorShit got so frisky with the expectant young father at the airport. Even Josh was asking to the effect: "Whoa, what's goin' on here?"

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LOL. Dude, you just made me shoot Mountain Dew through my nose!

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Hey - they're Republicans - any deviance is possible.

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Hmmm ok how could it be worse?

1) Man from Kentucky proves non-existence of God in groundbreaking math paper.

2) While searching for new offshore drilling locations, a scout ship ran over 12 baby dolphins and a sealion.

3) Laura Bush leaves George for Ellen.

4) Sarah's wardrobe gets so full that it bursts open and her $1000 panties start fluttering around AK.

5) Cindy goes back on the medz.

6) John McCain gives us more crazed antics.

7) Sarah Palin gives SNL four years of material in one speech.

8) Condoleezza Rice leaves politics and gets a job with the 49ers (hehe).

These are just a few of the things I'm hoping for in the near future ;-)

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Thanks for the comic interlude!

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Hmm. . .these folks must be from the unAmerican/unpatriotic part of town (snark).

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This takes more guts than you can imagine. These people are not getting paid much for their efforts and are struggling to get by. Good to know more and more people have their priorities straight! And for those of us obsessively watching the polls, baseball statistician/polling genius Nate Silver has finally created FiveThirtyEight Mobile. Just text keyword 538 to shortcode 30644 to sign up for daily polling alerts.

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Too scummy for professional telemarketers.

Ladies and gentlemen, your Republican party.

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THIS is the change we've been waiting for.

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I just had an epiphany and I'm not religious!

What if ... big IF ... workers at other businesses where the McCain has outsourced their campaign processes hear what those call center workers did all of a sudden have an attack of conscious and decide that they can't perform their assigned tasks and walk off the job?

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Two workers independently had already quit previously. Maybe the word is spreading and more of this will happen. Call it an "undertow."

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Setting aside the courage of the call center employees, I'm surprised and pleased that Indiana doesn't allow robocalls.

Are you listening, Illinois and other states?

Glenview, IL

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Latest Rasmussen Polls:

Missouri: Obama 48 McCain 47
Ohio: Obama 49 McCain 45
Florida: Obama 51 McCain 47
North Carolina: McCain 49 Obama 48
Colorado: Obama 50 McCain 46

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/fox_rasmussen_polling/fox_rasmussen_swing_state_polling_october_26_2008

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A fight to the end. But, this is Rasmussen. Make your own conclusions.

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I went to the "contact us" page at Americall.com and told them that they should honor the good conscience of their workers, as Americans are sick and tired of this sort of "us" against "them" divisiveness. We are sick of ugly and untruthful smears. They should listen to their workers.

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Did you call them? What did they say?

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I used their "contact" form.

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Sorry about that, here is the correct url for the contact page of Americall

http://www.americall.com/contact.htm

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The link posted is actually for the wrong company. AmeriCall, based in Tacoma, WA is not affiliated with AmeriCall Group, Inc. owned by a foreign company, Teleperformance. Their web address is http://www.teleperformance.com/americall/ and their telephone number is 630.955.9100.

Thank you,

-Scott Hager


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The link posted is actually for the wrong company. AmeriCall, based in Tacoma, WA is not affiliated with AmeriCall Group, Inc. owned by a foreign company, Teleperformance. Their web address is http://www.teleperformance.com/americall/ and their telephone number is 630.955.9100.

Thank you,

-Scott Hager


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Terry, thanks for the wonderful idea!

I too went to the contact page of Americall, and sent the following message:

"Thank you, Americall, for not firing the employees who recently who found themselves unable, with any integrity, to read inaccurate and negative campaign scripts. It is my hope that you will soon find more honorable work to ask of your employees."

I know, it's a little schmaltzy, but I'm taking a cue from our next commander in chief, who has a remarable ability to acknowledge and appreciate an opponent's perspective.

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I commend you. Yes, corporations should not take on the work of spreading lies.

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Setting aside the courage of the call center employees, I'm surprised and pleased that Indiana doesn't allow robocalls.

Are you listening, Illinois and other states?

Glenview, IL

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This is reminiscent of the computer programmers who walked out when the Marcos dictatorship in the Philippines tried to rig the election results between him and Cory Aquino for the Philippine presidency back in the mid 80s. That event and many more basically fired up the peaceful People's Power movement that toppled the Marcos regime and installed Aquino to the presidency.

Bravo!

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If only the computer programmers in the USA (who were asked to rig pro-Republican electronic voting) had had the same ethical standards, and likewise refused the job.

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"One Voice change a room, one room can change a city..."

Thank you all for showing your patriotism and principles with your own paychecks...your honesty and bravery is a testimony to what it is going to take to change this nation...

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There's something very heartening about a story like this. At the very least it's a clear signal to the McCain/Palinistas that not everybody has sold their soul (which no doubt will come as a terrible shock to wingnuts and tire-swingers alike).

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Truly.

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If this story is true, it is bad for McCain regardless of how you interpret what happened.

Bearing in mind that people who work for telemarketers are likely to be the kind of "real American" working people the Republicans are reaching out for, and are not "elitists," and that Indiana has voted Republican in the past:

1. This story might mean that large numbers of voters in Indiana are pro-Obama and are willing to risk their jobs rather than undermine his candidacy;

2. Or it might mean that the telemarketers now believe that the McCain campaign is lying and don't want to have anything to do with it;

3. Or it might mean that the telemarketers don't care whether or not what they were supposed to read was true because they think it is sleazy and irrelevant and don't want to have anything to do with it, which means that the current tactics of the McCain campaign are doomed to failure.

But regardless of how you view it, this is not good news for McCain.

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This is so moving that it brings tears to my eyes, and I'm not ordinarily a sentimental sap. Telemarketing is a terribly demoralizing way to make (barely) a living: the people who do it are often compelled by threat of homelessness to keep at it. To sacrifice a day's wages from a budget that is calculated down to the last penny is truly an heroic gesture.

I only wish I had the money to reimburse them for their loss. I would consider it a good use of my donations if the Obama campaign did just that.

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I'm pretty proud of my fellow Hoosiers. With the economy as it stands now, to quit a job on principle is courageous.

Indiana might only end up being a purplish state, but that's just a tick from blue. And there's still a week to get there!

Happy, happy, joy, joy!

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It'll get cleaned up. New administration comes in - every person in the federal government resigns.
Tena

Hold on, Tena! Yes, all the political appointees offer to go. No problem there. But Bush has had more than enough time to get his henchmen enscounsed in CAREER positions, Civil Service protections and all. Those people have to go, and they only way to do it is a thorough investigation and accounting. It won't be easy.

Although a good number of them might just flee one step ahead of the indictment.

The Federal Agencies and the Defense are lousy with these people, their wingnut politics and born again ignorance. It'll be a hell of a job winkling them out of there.

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What assistant US attorneys are in the civil service?

What career positions in Justice? Not the lawyers, not the ones in charge of the lawyers, either.

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Tena, were you paying attention to The Muck during the DOJ firing scandal? Because this was extensively discussed. Many, many attorneys work in career prosecutor roles. Many good ones left. And part of the problem related to Monica Goodling was the deliberate hiring of non-appointees who were loyal repubs. That's one place she got in trouble and admitted she'd gone over the line.

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I knew what she had done over the line - I know what problem is.

There's a difference between civil service protection and career positions held by lawyers.

They can be fired especially when they have the subject of Congressional investigations. You can't just salt the government with incompetent people and then they all just stay there. I don't see how that is possible and I never have.

I've known too many assistant US prosecutors - they come and go rather quickly as a rule.

And I don't think the ideologues will stay on in a Democratic administration.

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True American heroes, all of them!

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Y'all absolutely have to look at this picture at HuffPo of one of the neo-Nazis the ATF picked up today -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/27/obama-assassination-plot_n_138297.html

What the fuck is with the Boy George makeup, with the skinhead, tats and the automatic rifle? This guy is very very confused.

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Word, Tena. That guy is really fucked up.

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Wannabe heroes without any guts. Doesn't take much to attack defenseless people. If their intended victims are armed it's a whole new ballgame and their intestinal-fortitude would be challenged.

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Wannabe heroes without any guts. Doesn't take much to attack defenseless people. If their intended victims are armed it's a whole new ballgame and their intestinal-fortitude would be challenged.

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But that call center story has me on the verge of tears. That is really something. It's still difficult to believe that things may change, and that working class American kids will grow up with hope. Good Lord, why, there could even be a resurgence of civic and national feeling of obligation among the well to do. Okay, that's the weed talking.

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Mooser, it's not too much to try and change the way that status is accorded in this country. If enough people begin to view status in terms of giving of themselves, in whatever way, we can begin to change minds and hearts. I understand we will face difficulties. But why not try?

I too feel so moved by the courage and decency of these, who have followed the call for change.

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Personally, I think we should start a fund to pay these folks their day's wage for walking out on the scuzz-call. Reward them for their behavior.

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Wow! These people have some integrity. Thank you!

I wonder how many volunteers McCain has lost asking them to make calls like this. Clearly much of the slime can only be done by non-humans.

I agree, it would be great if robocalls were not allowed anywhere so at least a human has to be willing to say what is being stated.

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That's how they do it in Pro-American areas of America.

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I JUST GOT A PUSH POLL IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA.

i've let TPM and the obama campaign know about it.

here's the skinny on it:

it was a voice-prompt system. it started off saying it was a poll. then it asked whether i intended to vote for john mccain. i said, "no." then it asked if i intended to vote for barack obama. i said, "yes." then it asked whether i considered myself pro-life. i said, "no." then it asked whether i wanted a tax cut. i said, "yes." then it launched into a diatribe about how obama will raise taxes on virginians by $3000, which will force employers to fire employees. then it asked if this changed my mind about wanting to vote for obama. i said, "no." then it asked whether i was male, whether i was over 35. then it ended by telling me it was paid for by "Americans United to Preserve Marriage," and that it was not affiliated with any campaign.

the caller ID information for the call was as follows: AIC2008RES 703-263-0619

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How about we all donate their days pay to a campaign as a show of solidarity?

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This is way more than just refusing a day's pay. Every one of those people was risking almost certain firing. I've worked in a lot of call centers, and in most "right to work" states (more like "right to get fired") if you refuse to do something, your job is over then and there.

This was an incredibly brave act, and I applaud these American heroes.

Next, let's see if FAUX News spins it as the first wave of the forthcoming Commie worker's revolution.

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I would love to see this group of people invited to an Obama rally and have Obama shake each hand up on the stage. That, more than anything, would reinforce the kind of decency and ethics Obama stands for.

I also think that employers who value workers with character should step up to the plate and be willing to interview these people if they have job openings. Many, many employers are looking for honest, responsible workers.

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Word, Thera. Word.

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I would also contribute to a fund for these workers if one is set up.

Over at FreerePublicToilet (love the moniker but I didn't make it up myself) they were collecting money for Joe Wurzelbacher.

Greg, if a fund is set up I hope you'll publish it here.

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When calling Ameripoll, you can use the numbers "223" as a contact for which to leave a message.

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Merry Christmas Mr. Potter...

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This is reminiscent of the actions of computer programmers who also walked out during the 1986 snap elections that then Philippine President Marcos called to extend his presidency with Corazon Aquino in the opposition ticket. When the programmers realized that the results were being rigged, they walked out. That action was one of the early events that sparked the so-called People Power movement/revolution that eventually toppled the Marcos dictatorship and installed Cory Aquino as the president.

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I grew up in the Philippines and am so thankful for People Power. Then I moved to Indiana. This is exactly the same thing! Wala difference!

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I grew up in the Philippines and am so thankful for People Power. Then I moved to Indiana. This is exactly the same thing! Wala difference!

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Lake County IN is very close to Chicago and in the Chicago media market. Most of these callers probably have been familiar with Obama for years.

It is very heartening that they would stand up like that and refuse to be used in that way even though they had to forgo pay. I thank them.

John McCain would rather put the country at risk with Palin and decimate his reputation and legacy in order to win an election. Pathetic.

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These workers are risking their jobs & livelihoods to do RIGHT when so many, especially in this economy, would just go along to get along. THE PEOPLE UNITED WILL NEVER BE DEFEATED!

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Ok, I just sprouted my 23rd tear of the election. God bless them all.

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This is simply amazing-- if this is true, this is the sort of story that we (and the Democratic party) need to be spreading around the country. Does anyone know how to send a link to this story to 'megasites' like the Huffington Post and whatnot?

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Ezra..
This will spread. In times like now, it is amazing to realize that most of us are not ordinary citizens, but extra-ordinary citizens. Its time to stand up and say "this is MY Country, I CARE!"

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As TNTim says, fear not. The web is a force multiplier!

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I liked the first comment. Republicans fire you, so where's the news?

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The speech readers are far smarter than the speech writers.

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Now they know what "Yes, WE can" means.

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I'd like to express my gratitude to these people for putting morality above a day's pay. Often these are people who can least afford to lose the money.

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re strike fund: yes! I used to be in a union but out now (became a salaryman) and so haven't had a worthy cause to support in quite a while. Please advise where people can contribute to making up these workers' lost pay -- thanks!

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You can buy off all of the people some of the time.

You can buy off some of the people all of the time.

BUT you can't buy off all the people all of the time.

:-)

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Hey, guys!

Do we have our Boston Tea Party here?

Is this the insurrection of the colonists? Are we rebelling yet? Can the Battle of Concord Bridge be far behind?

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Hey, instead of just burying your praise for these workers inside a comment box, why not consider writing to the mayor of Hobart, Indiana instead? These people need to know that we notice their courage. Here's the mayor's email address: mayorsnedecor@city.hobart.in.us. And here's what I sent him just now:
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Hi -- I would like to commend the courage and patriotism of several of your citizens, the three dozen employees of Americall who, when asked to telemarket and read a script of blatant and out-of-bounds lies to recipients, refused, and left their jobs, without pay, as a matter of principle.

I am an undecided voter who is paying attention, and who is disgusted by the mischaracterizations rampant in these elections. No candidate or public servant, of either party, can honestly be said to wish children harm or to desire that they go without protections. It's an abuse of the public's goodwill to promulgate such lies.

It's questionable whether Americall should have accepted the contract after evaluating the script, which sounded egregious. But I understand business is business, and economic times are rough. All the more reason to commend your citizens for their notable actions and their sacrifice of pay.

I hope you will recognize them and pass this message along. Hobart, Indiana was noteworthy today because the patriotic values and hearts of these citizens could not be compromised. They stood up and sacrificed their own well-being for honesty and that is commendable.

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I hope you don't mind I plagiarized your letter, and also cc'ed info@ap.org, as well as posting it to the tips and feedback links on CNN and CBS Evening News:

Subject:Indiana Call Center employees - the Real Americans!

Dear Mayor of Hobart Indiana,

I would like to add my name to the list of people who are commend the courage and patriotism of several of your citizens, the employees of Americall who, when asked to read a script of blatant lies and shady half-truths about Barack Obama, refused, and left their jobs, without pay, as a matter of principle.

I am disgusted by the slimy GOP tactics being used yet again in these elections. No candidate or public servant, of either party, can honestly be said to wish children harm or to desire that they go without protections. It's an abuse of the public's goodwill to promulgate such lies.

I hope you will recognize them and pass this message along. Hobart, Indiana was noteworthy today because the patriotic values and hearts of these citizens could not be compromised. They stood up and sacrificed their own well-being for honesty and that is commendable. As of 10:45 pm EST I still see very little if any coverage of this story by any of the major new organizations in a Google search. This is the kind of story that needs more attention. I think these folks are Real Americans, of which the likes of Sarah Palin and the GOP can only dream of being like.

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I hope you don't mind I plagiarized your letter, and also cc'ed info@ap.org, as well as posting it to the tips and feedback links on CNN and CBS Evening News:

Subject:Indiana Call Center employees - the Real Americans!

Dear Mayor of Hobart Indiana,

I would like to add my name to the list of people who are commend the courage and patriotism of several of your citizens, the employees of Americall who, when asked to read a script of blatant lies and shady half-truths about Barack Obama, refused, and left their jobs, without pay, as a matter of principle.

I am disgusted by the slimy GOP tactics being used yet again in these elections. No candidate or public servant, of either party, can honestly be said to wish children harm or to desire that they go without protections. It's an abuse of the public's goodwill to promulgate such lies.

I hope you will recognize them and pass this message along. Hobart, Indiana was noteworthy today because the patriotic values and hearts of these citizens could not be compromised. They stood up and sacrificed their own well-being for honesty and that is commendable. As of 10:45 pm EST I still see very little if any coverage of this story by any of the major new organizations in a Google search. This is the kind of story that needs more attention. I think these folks are Real Americans, of which the likes of Sarah Palin and the GOP can only dream of being like.

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So does this mean that McCain is hiring tele-marketers to make calls for him because he cannot get volunteers to do it?

I just got a call from the Honolulu Barack Obama office asking me to come in for a couple hours after work and make some phone calls.

After reading this I decided that I will leave work early to go make those calls.

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Well, kudos indeed to the individuals who said "I'm not going to take it anymore," but I can't get all into the high-fivin' and backslapping here, because these are some of the same people on whom a majority of you bang the phone down with a withering snide remark when they ring through to you.

Liberals and "progressives" are no more noted for their politeness to telemarketers than any rednecked Republicans, and perhaps even less so. It's such a simple thing to say, "Thank you, no. I'm not interested." What's your excuse for not so doing?

They are people struggling to get by ... single mothers, high-school dropouts working on a GED, students at the local CC trying to get a certificate or Associate, and the occasional citizen fallen into the well of hard times. Give yourself a high-five the next time you're nice to one of them when the call comes through. You probably won't need to, though -- just having behaved like a decent human being will be reward enough.

Thanks.

mp

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True. I used to be a meany on the phone, but now I just stop them and say "I'm sorry, but I don't accept calls of this kind at home." Polite, to the point, let them move on to the next without making them feel bad. I did have a funny one recently when someone was trying to solicit donations to some charity. I said, "Sorry, but Barack Obama is getting all my donation money this year." That made her laugh. Why spread creepy karma when you don't have to. But you can cut down on these calls by not giving out your telephone number all over the place and signing up on the Do Not Call list.

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WOW The Gov't trying to lock up all of America, what a surprize. If the gov't can't chip us all they need do is get us police records, take our DNA, and make sure we are all unemployable.

Think it's a joke, why do you think the gov't now goes after the most ridculious cases.

We might as well be communist.

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Good Evening:

I am the CEO of AmeriCall International, Inc. based in Tacoma, Washington. Please be advised that we are in no way affiliated with the company referenced in your article, Americall Group, Inc., that conducted the political calling. Their web address is www.teleperformance.com/americall/ and their telephone number is 630.955.9100.

Thank you,

-Scott Hager

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It appears Scott is correct. It is Americall Group, Inc. (maintaining offices in Lake County or Hobart, IN), which seems to be the subject of this thread. I sent my comments to them at hr@americallgroup.com

I understand there are many telemarketing firms that work hard to set higher standards for the industry in general.

And, having once had little option but to work as a telemarketer, I have deep respect for the incredible demands of this very low-paying job.

If anyone here has the drive and passion to organize taking up a collection for these workers, I wouuld contribute a modest sum.

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Nova Voter-
I got the same call earlier tonight. It would be amusing except for the obvious discriminatory undertones. I Also commend all the folks who put their working lives on the line and said "no more". We definately need to make sure BOTH campaigns know about this! (How many Americans does it take to get the Republicans to STOP using fear and smear?!)

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Hello all. Thought I would make an account to let you know that I found this link via yahoo news, so the story is getting around.

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Good evening,

Has anyone actually read the actual script? I am not sure what all the complaints have been with this election of the negative campaigning. I believe that campaigns should have an element of negativity in them. Something to contrast the difference between the candidates. As a voter who sees very little difference between the two candidates (trillions of dollars in bailouts and handouts to many of the same areas), I welcome something to make it worth voting this year.

A person can honestly interpret some of Obama's state legislature votes on crime issues as being weak. Especially in the areas of crimes against children. I can not find a record for McCain voting on similar issues as most of them are state issues. So it comes down to is the script accurate?

If the script is accurate or an understandable interpretation of votes, then the workers in this case were not being asked to do anything unethical and should lose pay or be disciplined in an appropriate manner. I think we tread a dangerous path when we get up in arms over the criticism of our politicians. Just as people had the right to criticize Bush, McCain's campaign have the right to point out their disagreements with Obama. This does not make them unethical or racist (as I have seen posted in places).

I feel that we lose in this election no matter who wins. I do not want lose our will to look critically at the candidates no matter who they are. I hope that America will take this election as a wake up call to the lack of political diversity between the parties.

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Do you really think these people can see beyond tomorrow? Were these folks up in arms when that CNN interviewer tried to trick Palin into answering an obvious lie and misquote !! We're talking national TV - CNN !!

Even in the short time time Obama been in the senate - has he done ANYTHING to indicate he would bring people together? No- Nope - NONE -- when you folks lose your freedom and lose your secret ballot and lose .. .. .. Oh that's right it'll be Bushes fault !! LOL

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Maybe you should go try to convice the individuals who for ethical reasons refused to make the calls. I'm sure it would be an interesting discussion.

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** convince **

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These folks definetly deserve the Medal of Freedom,
and I'd like to point out to Adin, obviously You CAN'T buy ALL of the People some of the time, or these people in these tough times would've just shrugged it off and collected their pay...That's why They're True Americans, unlike Palin(Secessionist) or McCain (Manchurian Candidate)

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Really? You want Obama. Here is a thought. He raises taxes on business who then in turn raise prices to compensate, maybe even cut jobs? This will help the economy?
For those of you who think the Democrats are innocent, you are wrong. I have been called by them every night for weeks. I have listened to negative ads left on my answering machine as well. Finally I called and asked their party to take me off of their list. I am still receiving such calls. I know first hand they are doing the same thing.
If you can't handle the truth then maybe it was good for you to walk off.
Don't worry,if your "speaker," not a proven leader, socializes our country, you can just take my money and live off that. Is that fair?
I work for a living, so should everyone else. Take responsibility for yourselves.
Are you the same people that flew flags after 9/11? Are you still doing so? If not, you are just a follower and I feel sorry for you.

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You ought to go back and ask the Republicans who've filled your mind with this stuff exactly why their passion for deregulation has steered some of your tax money toward Wall Street bailouts.

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Yeah, another Obama hater!!! Good for you, I feel sorry for all the ones who have been lied to by Obama and they don't even realize it! Wait a minute, no I don't feel sorry for them because they probably just want hand outs like the other 40% who don't work but are recieving a check. That is his payment for your vote, and you are all buying it! When he takes it back (and he will) let me know how well all that worked out for you!

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Surprise, I don't mind paying taxes and would be quite stunned if I'm not paying more of them than you are right now. In fact, the taxes I pay may actually be subsidizing you. How's that for socialism -- a liberal subsidizing a conservative whatever-you-are. And if you've got kids or have some in the next decade, I'll probably be subsidizing them too because I don't have any. You're welcome. If you come back to this site during the daytime you'd probably find that there are a lot of people who are in a similar situation.

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Really? You want Obama. Here is a thought. He raises taxes on business who then in turn raise prices to compensate, maybe even cut jobs? This will help the economy?
For those of you who think the Democrats are innocent, you are wrong. I have been called by them every night for weeks. I have listened to negative ads left on my answering machine as well. Finally I called and asked their party to take me off of their list. I am still receiving such calls. I know first hand they are doing the same thing.
If you can't handle the truth then maybe it was good for you to walk off.
Don't worry,if your "speaker," not a proven leader, socializes our country, you can just take my money and live off that. Is that fair?
I work for a living, so should everyone else. Take responsibility for yourselves.
Are you the same people that flew flags after 9/11? Are you still doing so? If not, you are just a follower and I feel sorry for you.

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Oh Yeah...on the 3-way scenario, Palin, Levi, & Cindy...RAOFLMAO

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The media must love BO for he can't do no wrong!>!>!>!>

BO must have failed US GOv't. The president does not create the law but only passes it. Congress is the one who creates the bills which the president then passes/vetoes into law. The SC then interprets the law.

What's sad is that he wasn't even a 1 term Senator and didnt even have time to understand the intricies of the US Govt. He wasn't even in the IL gov't for very long to affect any "changes' for the people of IL. How can he lead when he does not even have the experience to enact the "change" he suggests.

Wake up America and stop believing in the the 'hype'. He wants to be a "rock star" by throwing the biggest party in IL at some park on election night, paid for by your contribution money!!!

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Oh lookie. A cluster of strung-together talking points from robocalls and the mouth of Palin. How clever!

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Exactly AM. And who is in control of Congress? The Democrats!!!! You want to blame the President? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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The sad truth is that the Democrats are likely going to control both houses again and if OB wins well, I guess we will be in a really long recession. I don't have any problems with paying for my 'fair' share of taxes, notice the world FAIR SHARE.

It's not Bush's fault for this mess. EVen he has to beg the Democratic congress for the bail out folks (with tons of pork added).

It's people like BO when he was in the IL govt who lost sight of all the subprime brokers. Did he help to pass any IL laws to protect them?? NO, he wasnt even there long enough to help draft any bills.

I already pay too much now and no way do I plan on paying more just because I worked hard to get where I am today. My family worked hard to see me succeed so I would rather use any extra money to support my parents than sending them to the nursing home. But if BO/Democrats are going to take more money from me, there is going to be some ........ to pay!!!

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Hey.....more graffiti!

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They probably are not too worried about losing pay, if Obama ends up president,
"WELFARE FOR EVERYONE"

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They probably are not too worried about losing pay, if Obama ends up president,
"WELFARE FOR EVERYONE"

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Ill tell you, as a resident of an adjoining town to Hobart (Portage) I am so proud of these folks- Rather than to violate their conscience they put their jobs on the line. These are true American heroes.
We have been waiting for this to happen. Workers who rather than cooperate with the Republican Slime Machine took their destiny into their hands and made a stand. And it is not over by a long shot.
Got that Red State turn in Blue Blue!

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Ill tell you, as a resident of an adjoining town to Hobart (Portage) I am so proud of these folks- Rather than to violate their conscience they put their jobs on the line. These are true American heroes.
We have been waiting for this to happen. Workers who rather than cooperate with the Republican Slime Machine took their destiny into their hands and made a stand. And it is not over by a long shot.
Got that Red State turn in Blue Blue!

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WOW!!! i am impressed. this is restoring my faith in humanity! obama is the change we want to see in the world. look at what he is inspiring!!
great work, hoosiers!!

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Seems to Me the GOP had a Majority for the 1st 6 years of Shrubs' Tenure...

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Hello.. I've been reading your boards occasionally throughout the campaign, and if I may say so, you've got a really cool thing going here... a nice vibe. I enjoy reading your threads. Unlike so many other of the boards...well, nuff said.

Anyway, what an amazing display of principle! I wonder.. Does the McCain camp know about it ?

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"Some people have pre-defined limits of civility they will not step over no matter what the reason."

I thank the writer for that comment.

But I want to add to it:

But there are people that will step over that line. The people running the McCain campaign, and don't tell me that Sen. John doesn't know what is going on.


Shame Shame Shame, if those people have any left. If McCain was who he reputes to be, he would immediately announce that he will not be part of a party that does these deeds, and drop his bid for President.

That would be real patriotism, Senator McCain.

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Truly patriotic Americans who love this country and hate what has been done to it by the neocon criminals are now pushing back against tyranny. For too long the monsters have had the upper hand and have forced us to do their bidding, but now that so many of us have lost so much, I have a feeling that some of our fellow strugglers will be going "all in" if this presidential election is stolen. The stakes are extremely high and the criminals know that relief for us, and justice for them, is within sight and they have become like cornered beasts. So we should expect the worse that we have seen thus far to spiral to new depths of depravity.

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Fired!

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Fired!

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This part of our history is pretty interesting, but we are true to form Americans. When I look at us I am so happy that God is a forgiving God. Some of us have a long way to go to understand the very principles that Jesus proferred.

Having said that, I am glad we are in America because in many other countries if you expressed your opinion the way those 40 workers did, you would be shot. Remember Tienamen Square? I love America with all of its greatness and faults.

Welcome to America and the Democratic process.

Yes We Can!

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There is a big difference between the candidates. McCain is a believer in the trickle down theory; give the rich and corporations the tax cuts and they will trickle these profits down to the people. But it doesn't work. The corporations give themselves higher salaries and bigger bonuses and little trickles down to us. Obama believes in building upwards. Give the middle class more tax cuts amd this will create more spending which will increase the need for higher production and profit. Right now the only ones getting a tax cut right now are the rich and the corporations thanks to George Bush, and McCane wants to make these tax cuts permanent. This is why we need a change otherwise it's 4 more years like the last 8 years with Bush.

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As a small business owner, I am for Obama. I don't think McCain has any clue about small business owners. That comment he made about Joe the Plumber being rich under Obama's plan cinched it for me. If you're making over $250,000 then yes, you're no longer part of the middle class. Perhaps my business is too small for McCain. I only net $40,000.

Bless these workers! It hard to tell your hungry child that you walked away from money to feed him/her in order to stand up for your principles. Bless the ones who stayed even though it hurt. We feel for you, too.

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This is a small number of people demonstrating how to take our country back. Saying, "No, I won't do that, even if I don't get paid. I won't participate in this anymore." We can, we will. We ARE taking our country back from these forces of evil that have walked abroad for the last eight years.

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Let's give a round of applause!! (Waiting for applause before continuing). I know how it feels to walk off of a job in protest against something that's violating my ethics--I've done it numerous times. It's really inspiring to hear about others doing it now, too, especially people who obviously were in dire need of the cash. They are the true American heroes.

The irony is that instead of promoting himself, McCain just keeps attacking Obama, and the more he attacks Obama, the more he makes people focus on Obama and not on him! And when all the focus is on Obama, the votes are sure to follow...

One way to see the evidence of this is by checking out http://www.perspctv.com. This site is measuring not just who voters are saying they'll vote for, but also who's generating more mentions in the blogoshere...who's generating more "buzz", so to speak. With McCain's dirty tactics, he's just generating more and more of it for Obama.

Moral of the story, to quote Thumper Rabbit from "Bambi": If ya ain't got nuthin' nice to say, don't say nuthin at all.

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Funny how Obama will do all this redistibution of wealth when in office yet, his wife makes 500k and she doesn't even give 10% to charity. Which is a tithe in Christianity, as a churchgoer for 20 yrs at Rev. Wrights I would think she and her husband would at least have given 10% of their rich lifestyle for the needy and those oppressed by the RNC. Just another common sense question that should have already been brought up by the media. If you want other people to do it how about leading a change instead of trying to legislate a change.

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Dave, can you provide a source for this? And, just wondering, what would you be saying if such amounts HAD been donated to that church? Thanks.

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Riverwatcher,

You can find Obama's giving on his website or TaxProf Blog. He gave less than 1% until he was running for office then it jump up to 4 to 6%. Just makes it hard to believe that he really believes in what he says about redistributing wealth when in 2005 he earned 1.6 million and gave 77k total to charity. Sadly, once again our leaders ask us to do what they are unwilling to do themselves.

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Riverwatcher,

You can find Obama's giving on his website or TaxProf Blog. He gave less than 1% until he was running for office then it jump up to 4 to 6%. Just makes it hard to believe that he really believes in what he says about redistributing wealth when in 2005 he earned 1.6 million and gave 77k total to charity. Sadly, once again our leaders ask us to do what they are unwilling to do themselves.

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I'll reserve judgment on whether you're being honest here until I check the site(s) tomorrow, but to tell you the truth, the storyline sounds suspect. Regardless, what about my second question?

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Your second question is hypothetical, what if Obama had flown a jet and was shot down and was a war hero?

I will make a stab at an answer...If Obama was already practicing what he is preaching about giving more of his income to those in need then I would say he believes what he says. A man with convictions, right or wrong you can judge his character. However, when you have to build your reputation on things you will do(future tense) it begs the question, why have you not done this until now? I believe Obama is capitalizing on disapproval of Bush not on substance, past or future.

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You are all real American heroes. If we all had this much pride in our country and ourselves, we could take back the United States of America. Then we might be able to build some credibility in other countries that Bush has turned against us. You made a great sacrifice, but it was not in vain. You will all be remembered.

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You are all real American heroes. If we all had this much pride in our country and ourselves, we could take back the United States of America. Then we might be able to build some credibility in other countries that Bush has turned against us. You made a great sacrifice, but it was not in vain. You will all be remembered.

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When it comes to making money corporate America has no conscience. They'll do or say anything.

As I have said in the past I strongly believe that for this reason and for the reason that a lot of corporate America are global companies they sould not have access to our elected officials. Companies are not citizens and should not be granted rights commonly attributed to citizens. Perhaps a different set of rights but not those accorded a real person who can walk into a voting booth and cast a ballot.

My thinking stems from the simple idea that the things corporate America seeks and the things private citizens seek are very often in conflict. As is all too common the things corporate America does often harms citizens. Given that typical result how then can they logically be accorded rights as if they were citizens? The notion of 'citizen' implies common goals and aspirations. Entities not sharing those common goals and aspirations cannot logically belong the the class 'citizens'. And you cannot define the class 'citizens' to incorporate two classes who have markedly different characteristics.

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BTW UnitedWeStand,

What country did Bush turn against us and why should we care? I would wager that if you opened the US borders, with Bush as president, a flood of people from each country in the world would come in and be grateful and excited for the opportunity to be in America. I believe those that hate America are the leaders of countries that envy the U.S. and not the citizens. Of course, you do have a large muslim group that is opposed to us b/c we have not converted to their faith but thankfully although the majority of terrorist attacks and genocide in the past 25 yrs have been a result of "muslim faith", the news assures me it is a peaceful religion.

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Bush did an off-the-charts job of damaging relations with allies who are fairly important to us.

A lot of those who dislike us have their reasons, and arrogance on our part is a contributing factor.

How "large" a Muslim group would you include as those who are opposed to us? I've got a number of good friends here in the States who are very patriotic, and other Muslims have died in Iraq serving all of us in the military.

Go away, troll.

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River,

For asking me for specifics you are very vague. What allies did we lose that are no longer allies??? What people have place embargos on our country for imports or exports??? What country won't let US citizens in b/c of the last 8 yrs? I mean I need to know how bad are we really? I travel a good bit around the globe and haven't really noticed my popularity being down b/c of my passport being from America.

As far as Muslims go, I mean I just call it as I see it. I don't include all Muslim people in that but if a religious group is responsible for 90% of terrorist attacks around the world and the majority of genocide is due to not converting to the muslim faith then I believe you at least lose the right to be called a peaceful religion. Maybe you could say we are restructuring our religion but you definitely could not call it "PEACEFUL".

I, the troll, will go away however but if you would like some good news. The majority of promises made in the campaign from either side will never happen. Obama is a liar, you knew it from the time he denied Rev. Wright! McCain is a liar, if he had a plan for all our problems he would have implemented some of them already! So we are stuck with the one that lies the best.

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Speaking as a European I can assure you that the perception of the US has suffered irreparable damage over the last 8 years: for any European leader to respond to another call to join a US-lead coalition on almost any grounds would now be political suicide.

There has been a growing sense of horror and disgust at the United States' behaviour. Only a determined fight back by Americans at large against the neo-conservative legacy will do anything to restore its reputation outside it borders.

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I guess maybe you didn't understand my point. Why does your opinion of the US matter or influence our election? The point is there are always people who agree or disagree. I have a poor view of France, for instance, and it should have no bearing on its election or governing. I am not a citizen so I can gripe all I want but it makes no difference. As a European you can do the same, gripe all you want but your opinions have no bearing and shouldn't.

I don't agree with everything that Bush has done but the world's view of America should be very low on the list of important issues for Americans. Please people quit being so politically correct and grow up.