I think he hurt McCain by pointing out that McCain "voted not to fund the troops" when he voted against the mirror image bill Obama voted against. The talking point is tripe and now trash.

The "McCain is not a maverick on anything that matters to regular Americans" argument at the end will haunt McCain tell the end of the election.

Greg or anybody in the community, can you tell me

At times she kept raising issues about Obamas voting record.
At the very end, Gwen asked a question about What changes you've had or made.
Bidens was about his change of attitude about another mans motives.

Did Palin then say she wished she didn't have to veto something she regrets having to do, Something like that

If it is what I heard and could understand, is she not hypocritical to assume that others may have regrets too. Or her elitism, gives her the ability to be one of us, but not Obama.

CNN Debate Poll

Biden 51
Palin 36

CBS Debate Poll

Biden 46
Palin 21
Tie 33

CNN Focus Group: Won by Biden

Good Biden strategy - several times he tied McCain not to Bush but to Cheney, thus trying to reduce the 28-ers down to 13-ers (or whatever is Cheney's popularity status right now).

Toobin: "How many votes were shifted, not many."

Says it all.

Forget the pundits, the people have spoken. Biden won with the public hands down.

http://www.mediacurves.com/

Shorter Pat Buchanan: "Palin doesn't have to come up with facts because she's really cute."

I found Biden honest, responsive, and thoughtful. He was smart and understandable when he talked about domestic and foreign policy. Loved his answer on changing the tone of Washington, among many other answers.

I found Palin somewhat creepy. It was the canned lines, forced folksy talk, over-the-top mugging, and apparent inability to directly answer a question. Her dismissiveness of the actual debate made me think of Bush and Cheney and their dismissiveness of little things like laws. If this had been an actual debate where Palin would have been pushed to be specific, she would have resorted to the same kinds of pathetic tap dancing she did in her interviews with Couric and GIbson.

This shit wasn't even close. The debate was over when Biden hit McCain on the windfall tax. After that, the wind was out of Palin's sails.

While they were in Arizona, cramming for the debate partly by teaching her how to recite various foreign leader's names, how hard would it have been to break her of saying nukyular? I saw somewhere that they had written it for her convention speech on the teleprompter as new-clear. I guess it takes more than a few rehearsals to reverse a lifetime of hick-speak.

I agree with goodstuff that was Biden's best moment. But the rest of you are scoring this like a college debate. That's not the point. It's all style, and on that Palin won, because nobody called out her phony answers that just reverted to memorized talking points. So to most peple she sounded articulate and much less zany than she has been painted. Gwen Ifill was clearly intimidated by the McCain's assualt on her objectiveity, so she never called out Palin for not answering her (generally softball) questions. Biden missed hitting a home run by never sayin: "I love your scripted answer, Governor, but just once please answer the question." Why not? Because he was afraid the Mc Cain campaign would call him out. Sad.

The defining moments were Biden getting emotional speaking about his family and understanding what average Americans have to go through and his attack on McCain not being a 'maverick'...

And the line 'The past is a prologue to the future' was the best single line of the debate.

Palin didn't implode as was anticipated but when this debate is dissected Biden is a clear winner on style and substance. Palin did not answer one question with specifics and often just ignored questions altogether and her statement on the role of the VP (blurring the lines of separation of power) will come back to haunt her...

No knockout but a very good night for Obama/Biden.

the good thing about these snap polls is that they force the main stream media to speak more truthfully.

I wonder in private what Cindy McCain says and thinks about Palin? Really, polar opposites. Miss stuck up, can't smile, insincere rich bitch looking down on the masses, and Miss "you betcha!" I would love to hear the comments.

If a debate is scored on superficial generalities, faux folksiness and bridges to canned talking points, Palin did well, but Biden was terrific. Substantive, authoritive, yet also the more human of the two. It is comical to listen to Buchanan, Hannity and Dick Morris trying to trumpet Palin as the next "Great Communicator." She won something by not being the train wreck like the interviews, but she cannot seriously be considered for a VP on a ticket with a 72 year old Pres.

Biden really ripped McCain a new one, tonight. He did it with a smile and in a civil manner, but his attacks were devastating. I'm sure McCain is seething as usual. And poor Palin was stuck repeating talking points, unable to answer charges.

Palin was head bayoneted and didn't even realize it. In her case it probably isn't a vital organ.

Ed Rollins, a Republican, and Paul Begalla seem to think that tonight Gov Plain laid her marker for 2012. If Gov Plain is already looking at 2012, then she must know this thing is over and rather than McCain using her she is using him.

Biden's best performance to date according to CNN...

No game change, tomorrow is back to the economy.

And the troopergate investigation will continue according to the judge.

The line about the "white flag" annoyed me, but not quite as much as the "hey, let's stop playing the blame game!" shit. You're running on the basis of policies closely in line with an abysmal administration - get used to the criticism.

Forget the Palin "expectations" meme...for me, it was Biden who far surpassed expectations. I thought he was close to perfect, given the situation he was walking into (an opponent who would be declared a moral victor if she simply managed to speak and not slobber on herself). And look at that MediaCurves poll...clearly, Biden won the independents going away. At best, Palin stops the bleeding of the GOP base and perhaps keeps McCain from continuing to freefall in the polls. At best. She sure didn't do anything to reassure indie/undecided voters. As distance is gained on this debate, Biden will look better and better. She hardly ever answered the questions! Good gawd, she was given such a pass, what with no followup and all...she kept babbling about energy policy even when it had nothing to do with the topic, winked (!) and also waaaaaay overdid her trademark folksiness. What was authentic to begin with now sounds very self-conscious and forced...and not as effective.

Count me as a Democrat who was very, very concerned about a Palin comeback narrative emerging from tonight's debate, and who feels better and better about what went down as I think back on it (and look at the polls coming out). If Obama can hold his own in next week's town hall, I'll REALLY start to feel good about where we're heading.

You called it pretty closely, Greg. You had it ending up like this going in.

Excellent job on blogging this one. :)

Biden was terrific: thoughtful, knowledgeable, avuncular, engaging. He could not have been better. I think he'll be a terrific VP.

Palin memorized 30 short speeches (or maybe they were implanted in her brain) and then presented them, sometimes queasily-folksy, other times like somebody who had just memorized the Gettysburg address and was praying that she didn't slip into the Pledge of Allegiance by mistake; sometimes when the speeches were appropriate, sometimes when they were complete non sequiturs. Palin was going through her speeches, one by one, gosh darnit, and the Mainstream Media could just try to stop her.

Gwen Ifill, unfortunately, was awful. She could have e-mailed her questions for all the interactivity and spontaneity she brought to the debate; I think there was only a single moment when she actually responded to one of Palin's inane remarks. I don't think (and I certainly hope) that this will hurt Obama in any way, but it is yet another reminder that a lousy press corps does serious damage to the nation. Too bad Katie Couric didn't moderate. She recognized and called Palin on her BS. I think Palin would have folded under even moderate pressure, but she got none and muddled through. But really: The White House?

Reality Check:

Biden won because he displayed how knowledgeable and experienced he is on all the major issues that concern the voters.

Palin, on the other hand, once you scrape away all her bloviating and empty blatherskiting about maverick this and maverick; you are left with the conclusion that Sarah Palin can not tell the difference between a carribou's arse, and an ice fishing hole. Of course, what that means, folks, is: you should never swallow what she catches.

Well, at least Mark Halperin admits that he graded the debate as a tie because he graded Palin on a curve. How very sexist of him.

The Obama's should have a truly lovely anniversary celebration tomorrow night :)

greg- she may have passed the competence threshold only because there were NO FOLLOW_UPS. Which is why she boldly attacked the msm and the campaign has said she will do no more interviews. she recited talking points like a parrot. She was embarrassing.

Biden cleaned her clock.

He's the best debater, hands down, of all four.

Here is the thing: When you observed Joe Biden tonight you saw him as President.

When you observed Sarah Palin tonight, you saw her as a perky city council woman. Every large town has at least one city council woman that could put on the same performance that Sarah Palin did.

And that damn wide front of her tongue thrusting out, was hard to take. She appears to have no tongue tip. It is just one wide slap of meat.

From now on, for me, she shall always be known as Sarah Trout Mouth.

Beware of Tom Brokaw. He has run around kissing John McCain's ass. Tonight, after the debate, Brokaw said that the Democrats are very lucky that there is not going to be another VP debate. Brokaw urged the NBC brass to take away the election anchor slots from Olberman and Matthews.

Brokaw is completely in the tank for the republicans. The democrats should try to get him removed from the next debate, and not go on his Sunday morning show.

The way he mumbles his name really should be Tom Brokejaw.

I'm surprised to be the first one to mention the word "tolerant" (in the context of how "tolerant" Palin is of her gay friends) - I found that the word of the evening. I also found that attitude utterly offensive. I am straight but have always had close friends who are gay and consider them among my best friends (as, apparently, does Sarah Palin). However, it never once crossed my mind that I was "tolerating" their choice in partners. I wonder how her gay friends felt when they heard her say that.

Dog-whistles from Palin tonight? Here we go....

Sarah Palin is like eating styrofoam peanuts while watching Hee Haw.

Yeah, Brokaw worries me too. Talk about bias! Is he doing the town-hall or the last one?

The only thing that can save McCain/Palin is a Terror Alert, followed by martial law and a suspension of elections.

In 3....2....1....

People were complaining about Ifill but in one respect she succeeded: she was basically invisible. There was no Charles Gibson-esque series of follow-ups on an issue to try and nail a candidate to the wall - which makes the debate less informative but also keeps the Republicans from going, "Ya see? Durned bias. Didja know she's writing a book on Obama?"

While we all would've liked to have seen Palin taken to task on a few things, the upshot is that the legitimacy of the debate remained intact. To her credit, Ifill did follow up on Palin's passing remark that the VP could have more power.

Palin's talking points annoyed be after awhile. Her "maverick" line was ANNOYING.

I only remember 2 moments of the debate: Biden speaking about his children being injured and he understands what life is like. Secondly when Biden said that McCain was no maverick.

She can't say "nuclear" because she thinks Nuke!all-clear!

Ref: "While Biden admittedly wasn't at his best at times during the first half, when the debate drifted onto foreign policy turf, Biden clearly found his footing..."

He was shitty through and through because a 5-week candidate is being "compared" with 36-year Senate vet.
When and what was the turf? I did not see any.
Biden was better, but what's the margin? Was it 95-5? That's the differential number it was supposed to be. A 1-week trained parrot compared easily with with 36-year old vet. That's miserable. Why did Obama pick this guy? For what purpose? To be compared with a moose hunter?

One last thought for the night. It was a great night for Obama/Biden. The VP debate was littered with potential pitfalls for Biden. There were no missteps on his part and while my expectations were high for him I feel he exceeded them. Palin not imploding is about all that can be said for her. As bad as she has been in the media lately her very uninspired performance at the debate was actually a step up but did nothing to improve the fortunes for the ticket she is on while Biden did for his...

Happy b-day Tena....

tonight's in-depth analysis from the folks at free republic:

freedom loving patriotic americans won tonight. liberals who want to destroy america and our freedoms lost. thank god for sarah palin.

doesn't get much simpler than that, does it?

Are there any bloggers with some video editing skills? Had a good idea take some of Sarahs debate moments, sans voice, and use the song Jive Talkin by the Bee Gees as an overlay.

I think it would be pretty neat, and oh so appropriate.

"Jive Talkin your tellin me lies, yeah Jive Talkin you wear a disguise Jive Talkin so misunderstood, yeah Jive Talkin you just aint no good"

This could work...If they could do it with that Apple 1984 ad...

I never heard of Gwen Ifill before last night, but she is a disgrace to her profession. She asked few difficult questions of Palin and didn't follow-up to ask for specifics on any of her canned responses. As a result, Palin actually appeared superficially competent. Thankfully, the American public was smart enough to see through the ruse, it seems.

OK HERE'S MY 2 cents:

Sarah did better than expected, but I seriously doubt it was enough to change much of anything. One 'OK' night in a debate format isn't enough to prove you're knowledgeable and capable enough to be VP or possibly POTUS. I'm sure the base loved her, but not much appeal beyond that as the polls are already dictating.

But I REALLY want the media to latch onto her "dodging" questions by just ignoring the ones she didn't know answers to, by answering something totally unrelated. For that she gets a low grade.

THAT ISSUE ADDRESSED HERE:
http://okwassup.blogspot.com

Good morning!

Fist post-debate ad using Biden:

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/cantexplain_ad

...or maybe Biden won because he answered the freakin' questions! Why? How? This country is insane - Palin demonstrated that she doesn't even have the barest, surface knowledge of any topic save Alaska and oil production in Alaska and pundits are out analyzing this debate like it was real. It wasn't. What's more to analyze? What is there to analyze when one of the candidates wouldn't even answer a single question the moderator asks?
All Palin proved is that she's remarkably ignorant of ANYTHING outside of Alaskan borders - especially for a politician!
That whole debate should have scared every sentinient being in this country to vote Democratic!

Of course he won! I thought he missed an opportunity to drive home his “McCain is no (Mavericky) Maverick” by not addressing Palin's assertion that Biden would have been "honored to run with him (John McCain) on the ticket" in the past. He should have driven home the point that the John McCain we have seen in the past few years leading up to this election, is not the John McCain of old (no pun intended, of course).

It was an interesting debate.

I thought that Joe Biden modified his style to accommodate Sarah's. For instance, he initially focused on Ifill when responding to questions, but then watching how Palin was focusing on the camera, he modified his approach and also focused on the camera. Joe is a quick study.

Also, when Biden picked up on the populist tone of Sarah, he calibrated his own performance to hone in on the "kitchen sink" anecdotes. The most powerful moment in the whole debate was when Biden choked up about his first wife's and daughter's death, and how those moments of struggle made him intimately aware of the struggles of the American people.

That moment will stick with me after this debate. Not the glibness of the Sarah Palin cotton candy performance.

Don't forget it is filing day for Palin's financial records. Let's hope for something juicy.

Not that anything is needed. Obama and Biden are winning this race keep up whatever it is they are doing.

I like how Obama is doing his debate prep in battleground states. Great way to multitask.

She cleared a basic competence bar? How so?

Take any of her answers: the thinking is muddy, clichéd, and often goes off on a tangent because she can't really answer the question. She spoke in sound bites, she consistently misrepresented herself, McCain and Obama. And she can't think things through because if she believes the VP should have more power than Cheney has arrogated to himself, she's a woman of increcible shallowness. Overall, she sounded stuffed with info and came across as a freshman who had stayed up all night catching up on a semester's worth of material for the oral exam.

This is not competence, this is incoherence masked by cute mannerisms and faux folksiness.

I loved the little pretzel Biden twisted Palin into over abortion - so easy... Poor Biden. I feel for the guy. If he had used even 2~3% of his intellect, he'd have been crucified for beating up on Palin.
Probably had his brain all warmed-up, stretched out and ready for a fight only to have to bench it for most of the game...(sigh)

I wasn't paying attention and I didn't realize there was a "no follow up" rule for the moderator. But it explains a lot.

I think that McCain/Palin took advantage of this rule to game the system. What we saw wasn't a debate, but a series of mini-speeches that Palin rehearsed beforehand.

For example, McCain/Palin aides create a mini-speech regarding nuclear weapons. The idea is simple ... get a question on nuclear weapons ... and just recite the mini-speech. Put in enough platitudes and waving flag statements, and it sounds like she's actually listened to the question and thought of an answer ... when, in fact, she's just reciting a canned answer. With no follow ups allowed you're home free.

Two giveaways on this ... first she didn't get confused about the Achilles heal question ... it's just that McCain/Palin didn't anticipate this question and they gave her a canned "I don't know what category this falls into" answer. Second, Palin never took even a fraction of a second before answering to actually consider what she was going to say.

Agree fully with HTX-- Palin will not be back. she got here via the Mavrickiness, who will also not be back. Do not think that the public voice of YAY, SARAH is what conservatives say in private about their candidates. McCain had the choice to pick his veep, he did so, to the detriment of the entire party and they will not forget. Once the spotlight is turned off, the smiles go away.

In the next several years, she will go back to Alaska and try to rebuild her political mini-empire, though not because she wants to. She is absolutely loving the celebrity factor of a national spotlight. I believe that the Campaign folks tried to get her to quit in private (some medical malady for one of the clan, perhaps), but she has refused and so the charade continues.

However, her historical footnote will be that she once tried to "go for it" in DC, before she was impeached and put in jail for abuse of power in Anchorage. This will be more and more interesting to watch after the elections get over.

While I am late here today, I am surprised by some of the reactions. Know this much: you absolutely do not want Palin to quit now. That would create a honeymoon period for a replacement that would put them arching high during the vote!

This was best played to allow her and her supporters to think she did well enough by not embarrassing herself and run screaming from the stage. Good TV, bad strategy. Biden was nice, respectful, and allowed the country to get their Palin fill. I am sure that while quietly holding back the dry heaves, was joyous in her goofiness. It also helped that he was fantastic in the actual debate.

Let her think she was a huge hit! And keep doing it right up until the election. This will keep McCain having to cover for her contradictions, answer for her lack of quals, and she will be the millstone around his neck. Maybe it will even force McCain to put her out for interviews now. No excuses anymore, right? In her last two public appearances she has said she wants more hard questions. Have at it.

The only day that really matters is in November. The "slow grind" of exposure will do the job and it will be too late to switch. A knock-out punch last night would only set up her replacement. The rumors of VP-vetting were everywhere, so McCain's handlers were already halfway down the road before the debate ever happened. This was the best possible outcome. I am surprised this has not been discussed here more.