Putting Plane On Ebay Not Even Sarah Palin's Idea?
This story in The Huffington Post got only a bit of attention yesterday, but it deserves a lot more. It appears that Sarah Palin's now-infamous decision to put the state-owned jet plane on eBay might not even have been her idea:
What is left unmentioned is that Palin didn't come up with the idea to sell the plane using eBay in the first place. Moreover, because of the unique purchasing terms of the aircraft -- which required the state to make payments amounting to $20,000 per month even if the jet wasn't in use -- the decision not to hire a broker to help sell the property appears in hindsight to have been a costly mistake.Before the Alaska Republican took office, it was something of a standard operating procedure for the state to try to sell such big-ticket items using the online auction site. Officials had been doing it since at least 2003, three years before Palin became governor.
"It was the practice of the state to dispose of items such as this via eBay prior to listing the jet," Vern Jones, Alaska's Chief Procurement Officer, acknowledged on Tuesday.
This seems pretty damn important. The eBay tale is a standard line in Palin's stump speech -- it's a pithy formulation that is key to the McCain-Palin ticket's claim to being a pair of reformist warriors.
Given that Palin's eBay idea doesn't even appear to have been an original one, you'd think she should take the same sort of media heat for it that she's taken on the Bridge to Nowhere fib.
Before the Alaska Republican took office, it was something of a standard operating procedure for the state to try to sell such big-ticket items using the online auction site. Officials had been doing it since at least 2003, three years before Palin became governor.
Do we have previous examples we can point to?
September 11, 2008 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. Huffington had a few- smaller aircraft, pontoons from a floatplane, and a small ferryboat for examples.
September 11, 2008 10:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Every 20 years, Democrats repeat the same mistake.
In 1968, Democrats spent the entire campaign attacking veep candidate Spiro Agnew who was corrupt, dumb and unqualified, instead of attacking Nixon. Nixon won.
In 1988, Democrats spent the entire campaign attacking Dan Quayle who was dumb and unqualified and had a dubious record about avoiding Vietnam, instead of attacking Bush I. Bush I won.
In 2008, if Democrats spend the entire campaign attacking Sarah Palin, who is dumb, unqualified, extremist and mired in scandal instead of McCain, McCain will win.
People don't vote for veep so Palin doesn't matter. We've got to get the spotlight on McCain and take him down. We've got to show that he's a pandering lair who doesn't understand the economy and would continue Bush's disastrious foreign and domestic policies.
September 11, 2008 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
And then Agnew had to resign and go to jail. And then Nixon was impeached and had to resign.
Jesus people.
Knock it off, please. This is ridiculous. I'll say it again -
It should be obvious: McLame-Palin is one ticket - they are joined at the hip. You can't get one without the other.
Therefore - attacking Palin is attacking McLame.
September 11, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
What the fuck difference does it make that he had to resign when they were elected for two terms? Is it OK with you if McCain/Palin wins and she has to resign in 2014? Are you that fucking stupid??
Don't you see that Palin is teflon and attacking her is a waste of time? All of the things about Quayle and Agnew didn't prevent the Nixon and Bush from winning!! Obama has to take down McCain. If you're too stupid to realize that then you're beyond hope.
September 11, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
No I"m not fucking stupid.
This constant pressure from commenters to not talk about some things is really driving me nuts.
It's gotten to the point where that's all we talk about and frankly, I'm totally fed up with it.
If that's what y'all want - fine - have at it. I'm fucking sick of it.
September 11, 2008 11:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't care what you talk about. I care what this site and other liberal blogs focus on because it's driving the media coverage. The more we focus on Palin, the less the focus is on pro-Obama coverage and anti-McCain coverage. We're being smothered here and Obama can't make his case to the voters because he can't get heard over bullshit about eBay and bridges!
We need to drown her out and relegate her to second place. McCain is the guy people are voting for; take him and down and she will follow.
September 11, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Robert
September 11, 2008 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I get what both of you are saying but I don't think the Agnew/Quayle situations are really the same.
Neither of them were "historical" choices in the way Palin is as the first female GOP VP candidate. I think if people, especially women, are now moving toward McCain simply because of Palin, then she needs to be taken down.
I don't think anyone voted for Nixon or Bush I because of their VP. But I do think some people will vote for McCain because of Palin.
September 11, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know. I think Nate Silver's got some pretty good points on the issue:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/09/road-to-mccain-runs-through-palin.html
September 11, 2008 11:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Attacking Palin is exactly what the GOP wants & why she's on the ticket. McSame doesn't want to talk about issues, he wants to make it all about personalities. Palin's the distraction element they're using. Keep attacking her and you're NOT talking about the real issues: war, economy, health care, education, environment. Do not be distracted, don't let them change the subject of discussion, get back on offense and talk about what the Democrats know is really important to voters.
September 11, 2008 11:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think this is the type of stuff that the Dems should bring up but it shouldn't be Obama delivering the message - this is too "trivial" (even though it's a huge part of Palin's "story") for the presidential candidate to even mention. Perhaps a good one for Biden to go after - or maybe other surrogates.
As for attacking the veep selection - I think this year is much different than all of the other years you mentioned. The bounce, the increased attendance at McCain rallies, the many chants for "SAR-AH! SA-RAH!" and the few chants for "mc-cain...mc-cain", McCain's decision to attach himself to Palin for the rest of this election. It's clear the McCain camp's recent success is due almost entirely to the Palin pick. She's the strength on the ticket, not him. Dems went after Agnew because he was corrupt and Qualye because he was a lightweight. Even though Palin may be both, they're going after her now primarily because she is essentially the top of GOP ticket now, in everything but name. People WILL vote for her, not McCain, unless the veil can be pulled away and she can be exposed for the inexperienced and loopy fraud she is. Now, most of the folks she inspired and engerized are fundies who would never vote for Obama anyway, but I suspect there are a fair number of independents and moderates who have currently been seduced by the Palin myth but who could be won over if they knew the real Palin....kind of like how, pre-Palin, they started to move away from McCain when they began to see that the "maverick" was really just a myth, an act.
That said, Obama needs to focus on McCain and/or the ticket in general. Everybody else should attack Palin - intelligently, logically, on the issues, on her positions. For example, you can highlight her out of the mainstream views on abortion effectively without saying that the only reason she was chose as veep was because she never had an abortion.
September 11, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
My point: as long as we're fighting about Palin, we're fighting on their turf. You don't win when you're fighting on the other guy's turf. They love having Palin out front. She's the shiny new object and she'll fade soon, if we let her.
Get the ball back on favorable Obama terrain and then we can score some points.
If you look at the polling data, an equal number of people are more likely to vote for McCain because of Palin as they are less likely to vote for him. In essence, she is a wash.
McCain had his convention; he picked Palin and he's still tied with Obama. That's bad news for him because that's the best it's going to get. If he's still ahead in a week, then I'll start worrying. Right now I remain convinced that people want out of this war, they want healthcare and they want a better economy. McCain/Palin is not the way to get those things.
September 11, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Precisely. Obama's got too much over McCain for him to go off-message.
On the other hand, he can't afford to keep getting punked by these two without an occasional but pointed response; it's like McCain's holding his coat over his head for the right wing's little pit bull puppy to keep biting his heels. People want to see the guy give it back; Kerry should be proof of that. So where are the surrogates? All I hear about is Biden here and there at some fundraiser, and how the Clintons "will be" campaigning. Why isn't it all hands on deck? Or when will it be?
Seems to me that Palin's the rock star (or the Paris Hilton-celebrity) of this campaign team. If it weren't for her, old McCain would be limping along without much of a message. I say, savage her, savage her, just like the Republicans would. Make it so that she looks so bad her adorers will just have to go home broken-hearted.
September 11, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Precisely. Obama's got too much over McCain for him to go off-message.
On the other hand, he can't afford to keep getting punked by these two without an occasional but pointed response; it's like McCain's holding his coat over his head for the right wing's little pit bull puppy to keep biting his heels. People want to see the guy give it back; Kerry should be proof of that. So where are the surrogates? All I hear about is Biden here and there at some fundraiser, and how the Clintons "will be" campaigning. Why isn't it all hands on deck? Or when will it be?
Seems to me that Palin's the rock star (or the Paris Hilton-celebrity) of this campaign team. If it weren't for her, old McCain would be limping along without much of a message. I say, savage her, savage her, just like the Republicans would. Make it so that she looks so bad her adorers will just have to go home broken-hearted.
September 11, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's becoming obvious that McCain doesn't draw the crowds without Palin the way he does when she is with him.
Palin is McCain's biggest strength. And she's a house of cards ready to fall. Opposing the Bridge to Nowhere? There's no there there. Sell the jet on eBay? Didn't happen. As with all things Republican, it was sold to a campaign contributor at a loss to the taxpayers.
Sarah Palin is a confection, chosen to mask the fact that McCain is over the hill, devoid of ideas, tired.
Palin may only be a VP candidate, not the top of the ticket, but she's the only hope McCain has.
No kid gloves for the pitbull. Time to defang her.
September 11, 2008 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only reason Palin is getting the crowds is b/c she's getting the publicity, regardless of whether it is good or bad. We've all seen how the media makes celebrities out of train wrecks and the people of America love to watch it like a bad car accident. I agree w/ those above that the campaign and media need to stop granting her the spotlight. She will become a non issue once she's ignored and the real issues become the main focus. The Obama camp needs to work with the media to turn the attention away from Palin and back to McCain, and the best way to do that is to stop acknowledging that she is even worth their time to discuss.
September 11, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only reason Palin is getting the crowds is b/c she's getting the publicity, regardless of whether it is good or bad. We've all seen how the media makes celebrities out of train wrecks and the people of America love to watch it like a bad car accident. I agree w/ those above that the campaign and media need to stop granting her the spotlight. She will become a non issue once she's ignored and the real issues become the main focus. The Obama camp needs to work with the media to turn the attention away from Palin and back to McCain, and the best way to do that is to stop acknowledging that she is even worth their time discussing.
September 11, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only reason Palin is getting the crowds is b/c she's getting the publicity, regardless of whether it is good or bad. We've all seen how the media makes celebrities out of train wrecks and the people of America love to watch it like a bad car accident. I agree w/ those above that the campaign and media need to stop granting her the spotlight. She will become a non issue once she's ignored and the real issues become the main focus. The Obama camp needs to work with the media to turn the attention away from Palin and back to McCain, and the best way to do that is to stop acknowledging that she is even worth their time discussing.
September 11, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg - here's what I don't understand about this plane thing - what about Cindy's expensive private plane? They're making a big deal out of this lie of Sarah's like she's a big reformer -
What about Cindy McLame's expensive (extremely) private plane? IF McLame is flying around in his wife's expensive private plane, why doesn't this bounce back on McLame-Palin?
I don't think Cindy's sold hers on eBay -
September 11, 2008 10:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not only that but in Alaska private plane really is the only way to get around, in some cases.
Many towns don't have roads in, your choice of getting in are airplane or ferry (which you can load your car on for transport.)
And given the size of the state (2.5 times the size of Texas, I think,) a plane makes sense.
And, according to what I've heard, she sold the plane at a loss to a fellow republican congressman. Although this factoid deserves looking in to before repeating because I don't have it on the best of sources.
September 11, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Small quibble, but it was an Alaskan businessman, not a legislator.
September 11, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting also that the "only way to get around" explanation was perfectly acceptable when it was coming out of Cindy McCain's mouth in regard to Arizona, a state with 1/6th the total landmass of Alaska and only a fraction of Alaska's non-navigable terrain (not to mention outlying islands).
September 11, 2008 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Alaskan plane, a Westwind II, replaced an aging military version of the Beech Aircraft C-12, better known as a "King Air." It was used by the state for a variety of missions, including state prisoners between Alaska and Arizona. (It is common practice for states to "share" incarceration facilities. So the "luxury" bit was a tad questionable. Read what former Gov. Frank Murkowski said about it in this PDF.
Here's an excerpt:
With 586,412 square miles or about 365 million acres, Alaska is by far the largest state in the union; one-fifth the size of the lower 48 states. Alaska has over 200 communities spread across this wide expanse of geography. Since most areas are inaccessible by road, aviation plays a critical role in providing goods and services throughout the state. No state department in Alaska relies as much upon aviation assets to accomplish its mission as DPS does.
A long-standing challenge for the state has been overcrowding of in-state correctional facilities. As a result, a large number of inmates have been housed at contract facilities in Arizona. The state must routinely move inmates back and forth between Arizona and Alaska. The movement of inmates via commercial airlines is restrictive, less safe and very resource intensive. As a result, it has proven cost effective and safe for DPS to support the Department of Corrections in moving inmates to and from Arizona and Alaska.
The flight from Anchorage to Phoenix in a King Air is at least 10 hours each way with two fuel stops required. With the Westwind jet, it is under six hours, with one fuel stop, and one additional inmate carried each way. For the mission of moving inmates, the jet is more cost effective, efficient, much safer and not subject to onerous FAA restrictions on commingling prisoners with other passengers on commercial aircraft.
To date, since acquiring the Westwind II jet in November 2005, it has been used 19 times for prisoner transport, 15 of those trips were out of state. A total of 151 inmates have been transported on the jet aircraft."
September 11, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Note: all paragraphs after "here's an excerpt," are from Murkowski's briefing paper on the rationale for the purchase.
September 11, 2008 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
And if, as Cindy contends, small plane is "the only way" to get around Arizona why is a small plane in Alaska such a luxury?
The RNC can't hide it anymore -- Palin is a gimmick on every level.
September 11, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand your comparison at all, HusseinTenaX.
Cindy McCain's plane was purchased with her own money. Private plane, private money. Drawing attention to this works the elitism aspect, but that is a different issue with respect to the plane in Alaska.
The plane in Alaska was purchased with state money to ferry around the governor. The angle here wasteful government spending, not elitism. Palin is claiming credit as (1) a reformer by eschewing the perk, and (2) a maverick by thinking outside the box and selling it on ebay.
That's why they are not parallel issues.
September 11, 2008 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, Greg, Greg:
If one thing this week should have taught you is that facts don't matter. So what if she's brandishing her reformer credentials by mischaracterizing a few things, she's a REFORMER! She's advocate for transparency in government, except where it involves her emails! She's an advocate for ethical government, except for a little abuse of power ever now and again! Focus on the big picture, not those little things we call facts. The American people deserve to know her story, not her reality!
She shoots Meese's for g-d sake!
September 11, 2008 10:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is a blind ally.
I saw her primary debate available on line and she campaigned as a reformer against the stupid plane. It was a good and clever way to distinguish herself from grizzled curmudgeon and sitting Gov. Frank Murkowski. Republicans all,it being the primary.
If she didn't pull this stunt on ebay in the end since there were no takers, but pulled it some other way as a backup, she still sold the fucking thing. Where they *lied* about it was where they claimed they made a profit; they sold it to a croney and took a bath on the price. It's not worth too much in terms of scandal/votes, though. The "lie" tidbit is okay, though.
September 11, 2008 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
With allies like that, who needs enemies?
September 11, 2008 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why (why?!) are there no Obama surrogates hammering on this night and day? Why are they not linking tIt's a small question but I really want to know.
September 11, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Interestingly in her tele-prompter speech last night in Fairbanks Alaska... Was the first time she dropped the "Bridge to Nowhere" line.
Maybe it's because Alaskans know it's BS.
September 11, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
That is interesting. Apparently the further away from the Straight Talk Express, the more honest you become. Interesting....
September 11, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Interestingly in her tele-prompter speech last night in Fairbanks Alaska... Was the first time she dropped the "Bridge to Nowhere" line.
Maybe it's because Alaskans no it's BS.
September 11, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Interestingly in her tele-prompter speech last night in Fairbanks Alaska... Was the first time she dropped the "Bridge to Nowhere" line.
Maybe it's because Alaskans know it's BS.
September 11, 2008 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Or maybe it's because Alaskans like and are proud of the fact that they get so much pork from the federal government.
September 11, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd be a porcophile too if 1/3 of the jobs in my state depended on federal dollars.
September 11, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
While Rome Burned...They Talked About Lipstick,
So, if you've spent the last few days following what's become of the presidential race, here's the actual news you may have missed:
And Why I'm Voting Obama!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/10/while-rome-burnedthey-dis_n_125473.html
September 11, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah I posted that on another thread - I love that headline.
September 11, 2008 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.bobcesca.com/images/ZZ7A3474E6.jpg
September 11, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
From:
Head of State
http://tinyurl.com/6lbfdv
Wednesday, September 10, 2008
Palinism: The Politics of No Content
What is Palinism?
What is it about?
What policies?
What ideas?
What positions?
Even in the Lincoln-Douglas debates, while no doubt many were motivated by regional partisanship, local prejudices, and "the measure" of the candidate, one suspects that at least a rough rendering of the issues--secession vs. Union, free vs. enslaved--was carried in and animated the crowds.
Now, it is pure reaction to pattern. To one impulse expectation violated by the provocation of another impulse, that feels--good.
We have reached the content-free phase of American politics.
A form, an image--glasses, hair, a voice, what it suggests--is enough. She could be speaking the words to the airport timetable, the swearing-in speech of Ferdinand Marcos, the ingredients of a box of Sizzlean-- the image, the sound, and the gathering impulse, the bare stirring from dull lack of novelty--is sufficient to awaken the crowds to angry perturbence at...the stimulus to be perturbed, and the bare sense of actual directed action and purpose that comes with doing so.
Palin herself wears a glazed, slightly confused look in her eyes--what is it that has unleashed this roar, this approbation. Being used to herself, and having been among those who are well used to her, she is unaware of the novelty that her mere form releases in the dazed electorate, yearning for a pretext for expression. Soon, she'll believe it herself.
And, after all, isn't that what democracy is all about? The ability to choose to decide without knowledge? Better yet, to choose your knowledge, irrespective of fact, in correspondence with the liberating, confirmation-free impulse?
This is what today's moment stands for.
These are our satisfactions and securities in this golden age.
Cite:
Head of State
http://tinyurl.com/6lbfdv
September 11, 2008 10:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Somerby has been making this point about the whole ebay thing for days. I am surprised that this is the first people have noticed it. I assumed that everybody read the Daily Howler.
September 11, 2008 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of all the lies Palin has told, this is the least interesting.
September 11, 2008 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe to you, but that cute little story about eBay did register with some people and it's the kind of story that spreads and people say to each other: Well, she sold that plane, maybe she'll be good for the national economy.
And that's a lie.
September 11, 2008 10:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, for about 15 minutes, until the next TPM EC post is up.
Really, this piece of Palin poop is at best second- or third-tier compared to other lies she's told and to the sea of scandal that's swirling aorund her.
September 11, 2008 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
SCARY PALIN;
Is still building a $600 million Bridge From Nowhere! Since the blog thread is currently a black hole, please spread the word on this.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/v-print/story/52266.html
Excerpt:
And she still supports spending $400 million to $600 million on "the other Bridge to Nowhere," the Knik Arm Crossing, which would provide residents in Palin's hometown of Wasilla faster access to Anchorage, Knowles added.
"That project is moving right ahead," said Knowles, who served as governor of Alaska from 1994 to 2002. "The money for that project was not diverted anywhere else. ... So (for her) to say she said, 'Thanks, but no thanks....' I would say she said, 'Thanks!'"
----------------------------------------------------
September 11, 2008 10:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting the author wrote it “it was something of a standard operating procedure for the state to try to sell such big-ticket items using the online auction site”
If the practice was so “standard”, why didn’t the last Gov sell the plane using ebay and beat her to the punch?
Who cares who came up with the idea of using ebay? Ideas are cheap, we need people that implement!
Did she say “I came up with the idea” during her speech? Or “I invented Ebay”? Or “I invented the Internet”….(ooops…sorry, that was a low blow)
Obama’s stance on raising taxes, now THAT is an original idea….
September 11, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hey idiot! You can't be a reformer if all you have to do is implement. That just goes to show how low the bar was for her. Anyone could go do that, how does it make her special and qualified?
So, who has a more genius idea: spend money you don't have for things people don't want for things that don't or never have impacted us and end up $13 trillion in debt? Or tax to pay for things that have a direct impacts on all of us without going into debt?
You can't spend money you don't have and expect there to be no consequences. What is your favorite part currently about housing, education, health care, financial bailouts, and job conditions? Lower taxes won't matter if you don't have a job!
So, if Palin gets to the whitehouse will you be the one to send her a digital camera to take pictues of the straight talk express, white house, and other burdens on tax payers? All guaranteed to sell for pennies on the dollar?
September 11, 2008 11:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
You sound scared, i just stated the facts and you say "idiot". A tip: people tune out as soon you insult them. So much for reaching across the aisle. I bet you have trouble with your boss.
You are so wrong about implementation, to reform, you have to implement SOMETHING. 1% Inspiration and 99% perspiration...or is hard work something tough for you to understand?
To answer your question, it makes her special because she DECIDED to SELL the plane, i dont care if it was on ebay or in the paper. The last gov used the plane and household help. It demonstrates she makes CUTS to the budget and spends LESS. that is the only point it makes. She may have lost money on the plane, but the fuel cost and maintenance costs are through the roof...research it.
Would you be MORE impressed if she had kept the plane and hired more household help (to create jobs)?
Have you noticed today is 9/11? No major attack in 7 years...that costs money. We still have the greatest education in the world in the USA, same with healthcare. Our unemployment is lower than most every other democratic country (but high for the US).
Housing costs are back to where they should be...California and Florida were totally overpriced...yes, healthcare is a mess...(didnt Hillary pledge to fix that under Bill Clinton with a special task force?)
September 11, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, unless your family makes more than $600k a year, Obama's plan will lower your family's taxes.
You might try including facts in your rants . . .
As for the claims about healthcare and education . . . yeah, whatever.
September 11, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
A couple of editorial cartoons that reveal the real SCARY PALIN:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/cartoon/2008-09/42264657.jpg
http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/cartoon/2008-09/42264619.jpg
September 11, 2008 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Still more lies from the lying liars.
September 11, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand the comments about dropping this shit and not pursuing it.
It should be obvious: McLame-Palin is one ticket - they are joined at the hip. You can't get one without the other.
Therefore - attacking Palin is attacking McLame.
September 11, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
I would vote for her if she were a Power Seller with 100% rating. Yes, I'm that superficial and issues don't matter with me.
If she can deal with those ebayers, she can deal with Putin and Ahmadinejad.
September 11, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
So, taxes.... John McCain says (and keeps saying) "Obama will raise your taxes, I will lower them". Here's what really surprised me. If you are making between $227,000.00 and $603,000.00 per year, under the Obama plan your taxes will go up..., by $12.00. Please check out the article at CNN. http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/11/news/economy/candidates_taxproposals_tpc/?postversion=2008061113
……………… MCCAIN …………. OBAMA
Income ……. Avg tax bill ……. Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M …. -$269,364 (-4.4%)… +$701,885 (+11.5%)
$603K and up…. -$45,361 (-3.4%)… +$115,974 (+8.7%)
$227K-$603K…… -$7,871 (-3.1%)…….. +$12 (+0.0%)
$161K-$227K…… -$4,380 (-3.0%)….. -$2,789 (-1.9%)
$112K-$161K…… -$2,614 (-2.5%)….. -$2,204 (-2.1%)
$66K-$112K …… -$1,009 (-1.4%)….. -$1,290 (-1.8%)
$38K-$66K …….. -$319 (-0.7%)….. -$1,042 (-2.4%)
$19K-$38K …….. -$113 (-0.5%)……. -$892 (-3.6%)
Under $19K ……… -$19 (-0.2%)……. -$567 (-5.5%)
I'll end with this story.
I'm working closely with a faculty member that teaches finance. This professor has a "real job" (she loves to teach but only conducts two classes per year as an adjunct professor because she loves teaching). Her real job puts her well over the mark that the Obama plan sets and if his plan is enacted she will see an 8.7% increase in her taxes. However, she stated that she would be voting for the Obama/Biden ticket. I asked "Why, when you know your taxes will be raised?"
She replied: "Taxes are not everything in life."
--
Kevin B
I'm saying it now: President Barack H. Obama, Jr., 2009 - 2017
September 11, 2008 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Taxes are a moot point if you don't have a job.
September 11, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's see we should have about another week until the Hindenburg that is Palin crashes and burns. What goes up, must come down.
September 11, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
oh please, if you think my taxes will only go up $12 a year you are only getting part of the story..keep digging
When taxes on small business go up, and healthcare costs go up and taxes/prices on everything follows, it all flows down to you in higher prices and less services. Or loss of job. Ask the professor about the money multiplier effect...
Dont buy that $12 math...it is incomplete. Think "total cost of ownership". How can obama pay for all of those programs with no money??
Any government that is big enough to give you everything you want is also big enough to take it all away - G. Ford
September 11, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, please to you. Healthcare costs will go up no matter what, and Obama isn't interested in taxing small businesses. Obama can raise money if large corporations and wealthy people pay their share, and if we quit getting into trillion dollar wars that do nothing but destroy lives, the environment and any good will we ever had around the world.
September 11, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
DeeDee,
Good point and i agree with you...you wrote "Healthcare costs will go up no matter what"
Obama has pledged to cut HC costs, i guess you are calling him a liar or naive...
How come you didnt comment on my comment about the plane? Why change the subject?
September 11, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
The trickle down effect is a majorly flawed way of thinking.
How many companies do you know of that when they get a tax break, create a job instead of pocketing the money? Companies aren't like they used to be. They are loyal to shareholders and not employees. They are praised for being lean and employing the minimum amount for the maximum result. If a company gets extra profits through not being taxed, they pass it along to shareholders which help them get rich, not the average middle class American. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer.
It's fine if you think that, but when our America goes further into the toilet, you will have no right to say a damn thing when you are out on your ass with nowhere to go, with no health care access, and no job that pays a livable wage. I would rather pay a little more in taxes on things if that means that the overall good is being benefited.
September 11, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The trickle down effect is a majorly flawed way of thinking" you have lost all credibility in your first statement
How many companies do you know of that when they get a tax break, create a job instead of pocketing the money?
Answer: all growing companies do that, you must not own a company or be in senior leadership
The rest of your essay is Socialism, let the government take care of you.
"A government that is big enough to give you everything you want is powerful enough to take it all away"
September 11, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, are you saying the income disparity that has and is continuing to occur is a shining example of the wonder of trickle down economics? Then why has U.S. worker productivity increased while wages have stayed stagnant or even decreased? One more question, what part of the above "essay" was socialistic? All I read was a pretty healthy and refreshing desire to help all of society....is that your definition of socialism?
September 11, 2008 10:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
not sure i know enough to comment on income disparity or the wages issue...sorry
To answer your question on the part that is socialistic...exactly what you said, when you pay more and more in taxes and the government takes over control and forces providers to take certain action
American Heritage Dictionary.com says Socialism is "..systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy."
I agree with you to have some control centrally, that is good, I beleive Obama's plan goes too far and he wants too much control.
Who cares if a health care system is cheap enough for everyone but quality is low and no one wants to use it?
September 12, 2008 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your point is correct. Long before Ms. Palin, the State of Alaska sold its car ferry the Bartlett (a large ocean-going ship)on ebay. This sale would have occurred in about 2004. There is probably an article in the Anchorage Daily News archive about this.
September 11, 2008 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think this ebay is an issue at all. Many posters have been bringing stuff up that isn't worth spending time on. I would bet that some of those posters work for the McCain campaign.
I'm not saying that you do. But there are so many other ways to help Obama.
One of them is to stop talking about Palin.
September 11, 2008 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, media coverage is driving what this site and other liberal blogs focus on.
September 11, 2008 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I don't understand is why selling the plane at a loss is important. From what I've read, one of the plane's uses was to transport convicted criminals to prisons outside the state. It sounds like it was well used. Shouldn't the value of the plane depreciate over time; thus the plane would be expected to sell at less than its original price?
What am I missing?
September 11, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
as i understand it, that the plane sold at a loss is important because mccain & palin are claiming to have sold it for a profit.
September 11, 2008 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I don't understand is why selling the plane at a loss is important. From what I've read, one of the plane's uses was to transport convicted criminals to prisons outside the state. It sounds like it was well used. Shouldn't the value of the plane depreciate over time; thus the plane would be expected to sell at less than its original price?
What am I missing?
September 11, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're missing what most of the Palindrones are missing -- that Palin is one gimmick after another. This is a woman who not only never left the U.S. before 2007 -- she barely leaves the Anchorage metro area. What use does she have for a plane when she doesn't seem to have any interest in seeing the other parts of her state? Hell, she barely shows up at the state capital, where her actual office is.
September 11, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Already covered this week in The Daily Howler: http://dailyhowler.com/dh090808.shtml
I think the coverage of this issue shows, yet again, how clueless our MSM is. It is not at all uncommon for states and other public entities to use ebay or other auction sites to unload unneeded public assets. For many, it has been SOP for years.
Now, putting a plane on ebay is unusual, but that's because there's little market on that site for this type of item. Which probably explains why the plane did not sell on ebay and the transaction was completed elsewhere.
Also worth noting - by putting the plane on ebay, where it did not sell, the state actually lost money because it continued to make payments related to this significant piece of property. Had the plane been sold through private auction or some other mechanism earlier, rather than keeping it on ebay for an extended period of time, the state would have been better off.
September 11, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
nothing about Slick Sarah is true Shocking. i wish all of mine clients were as easy a sale as the American people. DOPES
September 11, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Slick Sarah criticizes Ivy league schools because she could never get into one much less visit one.
She wears her criticisms of people who have done better than she has as some kind of white trash badge of honor. It’s nothing to be proud of, it’s an embarrassment.
We can tell by her stances on global warming and how the earth was formed Slick Sarah as never picked up a book
September 11, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
racism stinks...you are the worst kind using "white trash"
September 11, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
racism does stink. but your phony outrage and laughably false accusations of racism are the only thing i'm smelling here.
September 12, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
sorry that you think i had phony outrage...it isnt phony and it isn't outrage.
Phony? you agree racism stinks, we would all do better to make our comments and not sink to that level of bringing in race
I am not in outrage, comments like that have no place. it isnt a "false accusation" they wrote "white trash" not me
When someone writes something about Obama that has race involved, people flip out, why is it acceptable when someone writes about a white Republican?
And you dare to defend his comment. Sad
September 12, 2008 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Free Rider:
A few days ago, I would have disagreed. Today you are 100% right. She's a liar, she's unrepentant and the people who are passionate about her believe Jesus wants her in the White House no matter how many lies come out. She is the "celebrity" McCain was so jealous of last month.
McCain = More of the Same. Have to pound this theme home. He can't make America safe, he can't end the war, he can't fix the economy. My god, he was buddies with Charlie Keating the last guy who ruined the banking system.
Joe
September 11, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Her idea or not? Does it matter? She got rid of the plane and cut overhead that really is the point. No reason to be a hater.
When you are the CEO or Governor in this case, you get paid to make the decision and that is what she did she made the decision to sell the plane and cut the expense and overhead so why wouldn't she get the credit. I meant if someone told her to sell on ebay and it was a bad idea she still would have been the one to blame or gotten the credit?
As my coach said it is not how the shot looks it is whether it goes in or not.
http://www.what2fly.com
September 11, 2008 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Her idea or not? Does it matter? She got rid of the plane and cut overhead that really is the point.
When you are the CEO or Governor in this case, you get paid to make the decision and that is what she did she made the decision to sell the plane and cut the expense and overhead so why wouldn't she get the credit. I meant if someone told her to sell on ebay and it was a bad idea she still would have been the one to blame or gotten the credit?
As my coach said it is not how the shot looks it is whether it goes in or not.
http://www.what2fly.com
September 11, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Her idea or not? Does it matter? She got rid of the plane and cut overhead that really is the point.
When you are the CEO or Governor in this case, you get paid to make the decision and that is what she did she made the decision to sell the plane and cut the expense and overhead so why wouldn't she get the credit. I meant if someone told her to sell on ebay and it was a bad idea she still would have been the one to blame or gotten the credit?
As my coach said it is not how the shot looks it is whether it goes in or not.
http://www.what2fly.com
September 11, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Her idea or not? Does it matter? She got rid of the plane and cut overhead that really is the point.
When you are the CEO or Governor in this case, you get paid to make the decision and that is what she did she made the decision to sell the plane and cut the expense and overhead so why wouldn't she get the credit. I meant if someone told her to sell on ebay and it was a bad idea she still would have been the one to blame or gotten the credit?
As my coach said it is not how the shot looks it is whether it goes in or not.
http://www.what2fly.com
September 11, 2008 4:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
At the ABC interview Palin looked like she was interviewing for a first-year internship trying to remember a memorized script. She makes the old softy Charlie Gibson look like a tough interviewer. Yeah right, you were just citing Abe Lincoln, When have you ever done that before? Obama is the tall thin man from Illinois.
September 11, 2008 11:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
sorry that you think i had phony outrage...it isnt phony and it isn't outrage.
Phony? you agree racism stinks, we would all do better to make our comments and not sink to that level of bringing in race
I am not in outrage, comments like that have no place. it isnt a "false accusation" they wrote "white trash" not me
When someone writes something about Obama that has race involved, people flip out, why is it acceptable when someone writes about a white Republican?
And you dare to defend his comment. Sad
September 12, 2008 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink