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Obama Still Way Ahead In Post-Debate Polling

Here's a wrap-up of the four major national tracking polls for today. Barack Obama continues to hold a big lead in post-debate polling:

Gallup: Obama 50%, McCain 42%, with a ±2% margin of error, unchanged from yesterday.

Rasmussen: Obama 50%, McCain 45%, with a ±2% margin of error, compared to a 50%-44% Obama lead yesterday.

Hotline/Diageo: Obama 47%, McCain 42%, with a ±3.2% margin of error, unchanged from yesterday.

Research 2000: Obama 51%, McCain 42%, with a ±3% margin of error. Yesterday, Obama was up 50%-43%.

Adding these polls together and weighting them by sample sizes, Obama is ahead by a margin of 49.8%-43.1%, basically the same as yesterday's 49.7%-42.9% lead.

These three-day poll numbers include two days of sampling from after the debate. During that time, Obama's lead has shot up in the polls, indicating that he walked away the political winner of their first face-off.

And here's something noteworthy: The Hotline poll also shows that there has been a very serious movement in the candidates' favorable ratings. Three days ago, they were essentially the same: Obama was at 54% favorable and 39% unfavorable, McCain 54%-38%. But now it's Obama 57%-36%, and McCain 50%-43%. In short, it looks like McCain's attacks during the debate may have just hurt his own numbers, while Obama's have improved.


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In short, it looks like McCain's attacks during the debate may have just hurt his own numbers, while Obama's have improved.
Sorry to use the trademark response of one of the most obnoxious twits in the blogosphere, but:

Heh.

My comfort level will be when Obama is upping and downing it between 54 and 57%,,,,,,,, sooner rather than later, thank you.

Palin may be able to help you with that on Thursday. regarding Obama's numbers, she has 2 options, keep them where they are, or watch them rise with every incoherent debate response she offers.

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I had an interesting chat over lunch with some other supporters at the Al FrankenGore fundraiser yesterday.  The topic was the Bradley Effect.

There was a lot of speculation that this time there might be a reverse Bradley effect.  A lot of people may be telling pollsters they support McSame, but, when they get into the voting booth, they won't be able to pull the lever for the old dotard.  Or they might end up just staying home.

Also, people who have any back-off about voting for a black man may be less likely now to tell pollsters that they will be voting for him.

Times are much different from 20 years ago.

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I totally agree with you and what's more the primaries bear out what you're saying.

There was no so-called (oy, the political myths!) Bradley Effect in the primaries and you couldn't say it more emphatically that things are very different than they were 20 years ago.

I agree too. The only ones whipping up the Bradley Effect now are Republicans. At the same time, polling is undercounting youth/cell phones and new regs. I think the underlying current is decidedly pro-Obama with a bunch of upside still to come.

I think you may be right about the Bradley effect. People who would feel uncomfortable about admitting they intend to vote for a black candidate have plenty of other canards they could use to justify their lack of support for Obama (e.g., the crypto-Muslim angle).

Another theory I've read is that the Bradley effect (which hasn't been observed since 1996, BTW) may be caused by people legitimately intending to vote for the first black candidate to run for Senate, or the first black candidate to run for governor of their state but at the last minute admitting they like the other guy's policies and experience better. The author of this article said that if this is the case, we may be seeing a Bradley effect again _because_ it's the presidency. But I don't think many people are going to suddenly decide they like McCain's policies at the last minute. And I suspect that anyone who freaks out over Obama's inexperience will see Sarah Palin's name there under McCain's and get freaked right back toward Obama.

Personally, I think the economic climate will push the undecideds toward Obama, and on top of that, Obama's lead in organization will push the undecided voters his way at the time of the election. Then there's the edge in ad spending. Which isn't nearly as big as some pundits say, because the RNC has a lot more money to spend than the DNC, and their support for McCain could bring it equal to or slightly better than Obama's funds, if they go all in. But then, the RNC also has other candidates to support, so they're not going to put all of it behind McCain when they have a lot of close congressional campaigns that they have a better chance of winning. And more importantly, O. doesn't need to massively outspend M. to win the voters who can be swayed by advertising--even if he were just to tie, he would still be massively ahead of Kerry and Gore. And Obama is budgeting his ad money a lot more carefully than McCain, who seems to just now be realizing that this isn't a sprint.

So a lot of factors favor a reverse Bradley effect for Obama, not the least of which is that he's running against a markedly inferior opponent whose ideologies over the last 25 years have been proven wrong over the last 2 weeks. But the biggest of these (in my estimation) will be the ground game--the drives to get new voters registered and to get them to the voting booths. Not because the votes he gets this way will be more than the votes he gets by _showing_ the American people that he is the better choice, but because the votes he gets in this way are the ones that are most likely to be completely overlooked in all the polls.

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Thanks for articulating a lot of the factors that enter into this conjecture.

It may well be that the Bradley Effect persists, though if so, it's likely to be hugely reduced from 1982.

The phrase reverse Bradley Effect might be narrowly applied to people who say they will vote for McSame but just can't bring themselves to do it.  The other factors you point out certainly help to counter said Bradley Effect -- when Obama wins, it'll be by a bigger margin than the polls predict.

In a sense, if you can't see, feel, hear or touch any Bradley Effect in the election's outcome, you'll have a very hard time saying it still exists.

No one noticed that McCain referred to Bin Laden and co as 'Freedom Fighters' who drove the Russians out of Afghanistan.

Read the Story Here
http://www.newsone.com/elections/article/mccain-called-bin-laden-a-freedom-fighters

. . . an undigested list of polls with errors doesn’t say much about your statistical acumen . . .

** . . . let’s do some real (modeled) Electoral College vote projections **

Projected winner: Obama takes all with at least 304/538 on 9/29/2008

Ignorance is no excuse. Stop hyperventilating Dems. Stop bloviating GOP. These are numbers McCain and Obama know about, so should you.

National polls are meaningless. Only state polls matter -- but not beyond 50%+1 vote. In a Presidential election, only votes in the Electoral College count.

Estimates of Electoral College votes don’t show the kind of dramatic swings that make for breathless faux news. What to do? Go to these sites. They show outcomes from statistical models. If the election were held today, Obama would win.

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com where on 9/29/2008: estimated 325 electoral votes for Obama.

http://election.princeton.edu/history-of-electoral-votes-for-obama/ where on 9/29/2008: estimated 304 electoral votes for Obama. (Obama declared winner-of-the-day ever since mid-June.)

And if you don't believe him, just ask President Al Gore.

Truly, the day after the election is when I will believe anything.

Oops, I forgot that, maybe a few weeks after the election before I can believe things. I forgot the total betrayal of the Supreme Court for a minute there. I'm bad.

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National polls are meaningless.  Only state polls matter...

Overly dismissive, IMO.

Yes, state polls are much better for making accurate estimates of the EV vote.  Trouble is, they lag the sentiment of the electorate much more than the national polls do.  So, you've got your choice of imperfections.

There is a correlation between national and state polls.  If the national polls trend one way, most state polls are likely to follow -- when the pollsters get around to conducting them.  The correlation isn't perfect, of course, but it's good enough for the national polls to be of significant value.

The Gallup lede reads: "Obama Maintains 8-Point Lead." I'm wondering why they didn't use the more appropriate word "clings." ?

In case anyone is interested, a friend of mine has set up some code that he runs against the Intrade state-by-state numbers and runs simulations on to predict the likelihood of various electoral college outcomes. As of today, 82% chance of Obama victory according to these simulations.

http://politicalsimulation.blogspot.com/

The house just voted not to pass the bill. 189 Yea, 208 No.

The republican voted against it almost 3:1

Its now 195 yea 220 no.

the DOW has now dropped 650 pts.

just saw that too. Holy f*'in sh*t.

Time for the Republicans to own their failures.

Was this a ploy to make sure that McPain didn't have to cast a vote?

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O my god.

O my god in heaven - don't tell me that. O jesus -


there goes our retirement.

yeah, I hear you.

FWIW, it's heading back up a little bit... I think we could have done better on the "bailout" plan, but wowza.

This is the time to sharpen the knives and draw a distinction between the parties. The Republicans had their chance to be bipartisan - fuck'em.

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Yeah I agree and I'm in for the long run, not the short gains which is why I don't gamble on the market with normally risky shit, but everything is being effected by this.

Yes it will go back up. As a friend in the investment business puts it: The market will rise from this or some other point.

lol

its now 203 yea 227 Nay. This is bad new for McCain.

Why a McCain Presidency would make us look back on the George W. Bush era, as the good old days.


http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/09/a-president-mccain-would-be-a.php

Sarah Palin - The Post Turtle

While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75-year old Texas rancher whose hand was caught in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to Sarah Palin and her bid to be a heartbeat away from being President.

The old rancher said, ' Well, ya know, Palin is a post turtle.' Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a post turtle was.

The old rancher said, ' When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle.' The old rancher saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain.

' You know she didn't get up there by herself, she doesn't belong up there,
she doesn't know what to do while she is up there, and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put her up there to begin with.'


Most important thing about these results? Gallup, Rasmussen AND Research 2000 have Obama above 50%.

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He broke 50. I can't wait for the next liberal to come on the thread and ask why the hell he can't break 60.

I can't wait to see Sarah answering questions about the economy on Thursday.

This AM, on the way to work, I was folliwng a car with a McCain sticker on the bumper (I have a "Vets for Obama placard in the rear window). I and the driver of the other car both went into Starbux. He got his order first and was standing outside the store. As I waslked by I said, "Thursday night's debate sure is going to be fun." He didn't say anything, but as I was backing out of my space I made sure he could see my "Vets for Obama" placard!

The most striking thing is McCain's high negatives. It's difficult to see how he gets those down.

so how is this going to play? will they slowly start to prop mccain up again? will they try to create some kind of backlash around the thursday debate? or will they let the mccain implosion play out the way it deserves? could this election actually be decided before nov 4th? please, please god!

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My prediction is she'll do pretty well on Thursday. A debate is not an interview, she'll pull her answers off the shelf and appear reasonably competent. All she's got to do is master some stock answers. I believe she can do that. She might think the earth is 6000 years old, visit witch doctors and believe that children forced upon by their siblings should have the resulting babies, but she ain't dumb.

Besides that, the bar is set so low you need a shovel to get a look at it.

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What difference will that make? Somebody tell me.

She can't "win" just by not falling down. So she does ok, so what?

All that people will say will be: They coached her well.

Jesus - this shit with the expectation game is driving me nuts.

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I'm just saying that her debate performance probably won't be the disaster that her interviews are, that's my only point.

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Ok - fine.

It's just that ever since Palin was named it's the been the same:

O Noessssssssssss!!!!!!

Then she started stinking up the joint but you still can't say it because - shhhhh - it's a set-up.

No it is not a set up.

She's just dumb.

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Goddamn it - Let me ask y'all this:

Just how much improvement did 4 years in the actual White House make for Dan Quayle?

Answer - None. He was dumb going in and just as dumb going out.


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Goddamn it - Let me ask y'all this:

Just how much improvement did 4 years in the actual White House make for Dan Quayle?

Answer - None. He was dumb going in and just as dumb going out.


I think we now know where the Real Eric ran away to:

"Obama inches ahead in tight race by crack" AP Reporter Alexandra Marks
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080929/ts_csm/akickoff

"Immediately after the Republican Convention, the Illinois senator trailed his rival John McCain by three points in the various daily tracking polls. Senator Obama is now up by as many as six or seven points."

A 8-9 point swing to a 6-7 point *lead* is "inches ahead"?

Who else could come up with a such an article Title that would linger at the top of major sites for much of the day?

I ask you, TPM Comments Regulars, is that not 100% Pure Eric?

Josh... you can tell Greg that he doesn't have to play Sock Puppet Eric since the jig is up. ;)

John

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