Obama Maintains Three-Point Lead In National Polls
Here's a wrap-up of the four major national tracking polls for today, with Barack Obama still ahead but his margin potentially a bit smaller than yesterday:
• Gallup: Obama 49%, McCain 45%, with a ±2% margin of error. Yesterday, Obama was ahead 50%-44%.
• Rasmussen: Obama 48%, McCain 47%, with a ±2% margin of error, unchanged from yesterday.
• Hotline/Diageo: Obama 45%, McCain 44%, with a ±3.2% margin of error, unchanged from yesterday.
• Research 2000: Obama 49%, McCain 42%, with a ±3% margin of error. Yesterday, Obama was up 50%-42%.
Adding these polls together and weighting them by sample sizes, Obama is ahead by a margin of 48.2%-45.2%, a slightly smaller lead than yesterday's 48.7%-44.9%. It could just be statistical noise, or it might be something else.















I'm going with statistical noise.
September 21, 2008 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's also encouraging to see how close it is in FL: McSame leads BigO by 1 point in the R2k poll and by 2 in the M-H poll.
I wonder if there's been a bit of a demograph shift there since four years ago?
September 21, 2008 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's also encouraging to see how close it is in FL: McSame leads BigO by 1 point in the R2k poll and by 2 in the M-H poll.
I wonder if there's been a bit of a demographic shift there since four years ago?
September 21, 2008 10:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
How fucking fickle is the public?
I'm sure these same 'independent' voters will swing to McCain after the national security debate when they see how strong he is on the Iraq and the Asian countries such as. Then back to Obama after the economic debate.
This 10% of the country needs to get behind a candidate and stick with him. They've been able to watch these people since January 2007 and yet they're still unsure. I mean, are they retarded?
/rant
September 21, 2008 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe they're just waiting for a compelling 3rd party candidate...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqktCdX0hs
September 21, 2008 11:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've said a similar thing before: They're not as retarded as those who ARE "sure" they want to vote for McSame.
September 21, 2008 11:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you trying to produce a self-parody, or are you really not understanding how polling works? Obama's suport changes by 0.5 percent, and McCain's by 0.3 percent, and you say it MIGHT be statistical noise? How can it be anything else?
Are you seriously suggesting that movement of less than a point in surveys with margins of error of two percent or more could somehow be indicative of a trend?
Good Lord, man. Do yourself a favor. Read a book on statistics.
September 21, 2008 11:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
When you add up the results from several polls, the combined MoE goes down. If I had more ambition, I (or you) could estimate the sample size for each poll by its MoE, add the sizes, then come up with an actual value for the combined MoE.
Also, MoE is generally based on a 95% confidence level. If you're willing to use a lower level (though still high in absolute terms) like 90% or 80%, the MoE goes down again.
In that context, Obama's lead decreasing from +3.8% to +3.0% stands a significant chance of being real, just noise.
How about YOU do us a favor. Pull out that book and compute the combined MoE for an 80% level of confidence. Thanks!
September 21, 2008 11:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, hell. I went to the four poll sites and found their sample sizes myself:
2720 Gallup
3000 Rasmussen
0922 Diego-Hotline
3300 Research-2000
9942 TOTAL
The total of 9942 gives a standard error of ±0.50%. The corresponding MoEs for different levels of confidence are:
MoE (95%) = ±0.98%
MoE (90%) = ±0.82%
MoE (80%) = ±0.64%
MoE (60%) = ±0.42%
The usual MoE used for polls is for the 95%-confidence level. But the 60% level is useful, too.
Obama's lead dropped from +3.8% to +3.0%. That -0.8% change is about twice the 60% MoE. That means that it's more likely (60%) than not (40%) that the shift, though small, IS REAL.
Eric is NOT stupid. He reports the facts, and he seems to have a good intuitive grasp of the numbers.
Fred App and Economides owe him an apology, IMO.
September 22, 2008 3:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
And yet the shift was absolutely expected to anyone that has paid attention to polling in any way, shape or form this election. Obama got a bounce from last week. It was a horrible week for McCain. But I don't see this as anything expect a tapering off of the bounce he got.
September 22, 2008 3:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have no quibble with your interpretation. My interpretation is, well, I just don't know :-)
My point about the numbers was purely mechanical. The small shift is likely real, not just a piece of statistical noise.
Bias (weekend bounce, e.g.) is a separate matter. You could plausibly argue to consider bias to also be noise, but that's not how I've used the term here.
Also, these "tracking polls" give a three-day rolling average. So what's being reported is Th-F-Sa or F-Sa-Su data.
Anyway, the shift is tiny. If there had been no shift, that'd be useful info, too. But since there was, Eric couldn't just say "unchanged".
Bottom line is I think Eric does NOT deserve all that abuse that's been heaped upon him.
September 22, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
How do you factor in different questions, and sampling techniques and weights in all those polls? I don't think adding the numbers up between the polls and running a statistical analysis really means much.
Anyway the polls this election have been fickled, also there is a genuine weekend shift to McCain weekend after weekend, presumably because Obama's people are younger and out doing things and McCain supporters are older and available to answer their phones.
September 22, 2008 9:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd hardly call what I did an "analysis".
All those polls publish a "margin of error" computed from the sample size. It is quite acceptable to add those sizes together to get a lower MoE for the combined average.
Eric was pilloried for making an interpretation of a change within the MoE. I say not guilty as charged.
September 22, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eric is stupid. He's afraid to admit it, so we keep getting this kind of garbage. Of course it might be something else--he could have a brain tumor.
September 22, 2008 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously? It MIGHT be statistical noise?
Are you seriously suggesting that a change of less than a point in a group of surveys with margins of error of two percent or more indicates a trend?
Even if there was some magical poll that had no margin of error and actually had the kind of precision that you seem to think these polls have, a change of less than a point would be meaningless.
It's this kind of silly slavishness to every dip and rise of daily polling that makes this country's political journalism so maddeningly superficial and infantile.
September 21, 2008 11:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
September 21, 2008 11:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oilbama proved he is firmly in the pocket of Big Oil when he voted for the Bush Cheney Energy Bill McCain opposed. Now we find Oilbama is firmly in the pocket of the Wall Street firms and mortgage security companies that are at the center of the collapse of the real estate bubble. He is closely tied to at least two of the Fannie Mae principals. Let’s start with the numbers provided by data obtained from www.OpenSecrets.org
Why is a first term Senator pulling down almost $300,000 a year from Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, Countrywide Financial, and Washington Mutual? Oilbama has not even completed his fourth year in the Senate and has already received a total of $1,093,329.00 from these eight companies and their employees. For the period 1990-2008 (i.e., 18 years worth of data) McCain only collected $549,584.00. In other words, Oilbama is receiving $273,582.25 (and 2008 is not over) per year while McCain raised a paltry $30,532.44.
Oilbama has received more from one source–Goldman Sachs $542,252.00–than McCain has from all of the companies combined. Who the hell is more beholden to lobbyists? And why does a junior Senator from Illinois rate this kind of dough?
Why are these firms and their employees showering Barack with their cash? McCain’s hands are clean when it comes to this mess. That is not spin, that is a fact. He proposed legislation back in 2006 to start addressing the abuses of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac but the Democrats would have none of it. Oilbama IS the greediest man to run for President since his fellow Bush Cheney Energy Bill supporter GW himself.
September 22, 2008 12:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
As Dan Quayle would say:
"What a waste it is to lose one’s mind- or not to have a mind. How true that is."
September 22, 2008 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
As Dan Quayle would say:
"What a waste it is to lose one’s mind- or not to have a mind. How true that is."
September 22, 2008 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
As Dan Quayle would say:
"What a waste it is to lose one’s mind- or not to have a mind. How true that is."
September 22, 2008 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
DemBillC makes Danny seem like a Rhoades Scholar.
September 22, 2008 12:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
You just know that BillC spends hours each day combing the comment sections of blogs trying to find one person, just one other person in the whole freakin' world who uses the term "Oilbama", so he can feel important and validated.
Frankly, I can't see any other reason for him to post the bilge that he does.
September 22, 2008 1:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
You just know that BillC spends hours each day combing the comment sections of blogs trying to find one person, just one other person in the whole freakin' world who uses the term "Oilbama", so he can feel important and validated.
Frankly, I can't see any other reason for him to post the bilge that he does.
September 22, 2008 1:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Googleing it, the top return for "Oilbama" is from NoQuarter, so I guess that tells us a bit about BillC and where he's getting his ideas/talkingpoints.
September 22, 2008 7:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Googleing it, the top return for "Oilbama" is from NoQuarter, so I guess that tells us a bit about BillC and where he's getting his ideas/talkingpoints.
September 22, 2008 8:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Josh, your server sucks dude. I mean that sincerely.
September 22, 2008 8:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's ahead by 3 points instead of 3.8 -- that's probably just noise. Unless his numbers start shrinking drastically, it's just noise. Don't forget, he had a very good week. Or rather, McCain had a very bad week. This could simply be the numbers receding back to their normal place.
September 22, 2008 1:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Doesn't Obama usually lose some ground on weekend polls anyway? I wouldn't take a tiny decrease on yet another weekend poll too seriously right now.
September 22, 2008 1:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agree.
September 22, 2008 1:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is Eric we're talking about. Obama's numbers have actually gotten BETTER over at FiveThirtyEight. (www.fivethirtyeight.com)
Conclusion? It's just statistical noise, weekend waning, and crap over-analysis.
September 22, 2008 3:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
The numbers at 538 do tend to drag.
September 22, 2008 8:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is Eric we're talking about. Obama's numbers have actually gotten BETTER over at FiveThirtyEight. (www.fivethirtyeight.com)
Conclusion? It's just statistical noise, weekend waning, and crap over-analysis.
September 22, 2008 3:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
538's latest figures show continuing improvement for O.
Precipitous financial conditions leading up to the first debate is thoroughly novel. This election could not even have been dreamt up by Gore Vidal, ten years ago.
A high degree of 527-based racial baiting can be expected in the closing days of the campaign. What they would particularly wish for would be violence in the streets.
September 22, 2008 4:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
538's latest figures show continuing improvement for O.
Precipitous financial conditions leading up to the first debate is thoroughly novel. This election could not even have been dreamt up by Gore Vidal, ten years ago.
A high degree of 527-based racial baiting can be expected in the closing days of the campaign. What they would particularly wish for would be violence in the streets.
September 22, 2008 4:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
538's latest figures show continuing improvement for O.
Precipitous financial conditions leading up to the first debate is thoroughly novel. This election could not even have been dreamt up by Gore Vidal, ten years ago.
A high degree of 527-based racial baiting can be expected in the closing days of the campaign. What they would particularly wish for would be violence in the streets.
September 22, 2008 4:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
538's latest figures show continuing improvement for O.
Precipitous financial conditions leading up to the first debate is thoroughly novel. This election could not even have been dreamt up by Gore Vidal, ten years ago.
A high degree of 527-based racial baiting can be expected in the closing days of the campaign. What they would particularly wish for would be violence in the streets.
September 22, 2008 4:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Josh, I LOVE your server!
September 22, 2008 4:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well according to Intrade McCain went up a .8 and Obama went down .8, so we will see.
September 22, 2008 7:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
From:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-soft-preparedness-of-lowered.html
Monday, September 22, 2008
Palin: The Soft Preparedness of Lowered Expectations
In all seriousness, expect the following from Palin's "meetings" with leaders on Tuesday and Wednesday:
-A series of serious-sounding quotes, direct from her days of preparation, that cannot possibly indicate her actual knowledge on the issues, data and risks facing each and with regard to each nation. Quotes, not readiness, happen in days.
-A bevy of positive statements from each leader--after all, that's why they were chosen--all being nations seeking U.S. favor, and having nothing to lose and potentially much to gain by doing so.
-A rush of "surprised" reactions from media at "how seriously she was taken."
-An attempt by the McCain camp to drive through her supposed preparedness as a result, as quickly as possible, before the debates.
-Still no in-depth, free-form, extensive challenging interviews on the full range of foreign and domestic policy issues facing this nation from this prospective President.
Don't buy it.
Remember: A few days ago, she was ready to invade Russia (which she could see from her border).
A series of rehearsed quotes do not a President make.
Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-soft-preparedness-of-lowered.html
September 22, 2008 7:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
From:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-soft-preparedness-of-lowered.html
Monday, September 22, 2008
Palin: The Soft Preparedness of Lowered Expectations
In all seriousness, expect the following from Palin's "meetings" with leaders on Tuesday and Wednesday:
-A series of serious-sounding quotes, direct from her days of preparation, that cannot possibly indicate her actual knowledge on the issues, data and risks facing each and with regard to each nation. Quotes, not readiness, happen in days.
-A bevy of positive statements from each leader--after all, that's why they were chosen--all being nations seeking U.S. favor, and having nothing to lose and potentially much to gain by doing so.
-A rush of "surprised" reactions from media at "how seriously she was taken."
-An attempt by the McCain camp to drive through her supposed preparedness as a result, as quickly as possible, before the debates.
-Still no in-depth, free-form, extensive challenging interviews on the full range of foreign and domestic policy issues facing this nation from this prospective President.
Don't buy it.
Remember: A few days ago, she was ready to invade Russia (which she could see from her border).
A series of rehearsed quotes do not a President make.
Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-soft-preparedness-of-lowered.html
September 22, 2008 7:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
From:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-soft-preparedness-of-lowered.html
Monday, September 22, 2008
Palin: The Soft Preparedness of Lowered Expectations
In all seriousness, expect the following from Palin's "meetings" with leaders on Tuesday and Wednesday:
-A series of serious-sounding quotes, direct from her days of preparation, that cannot possibly indicate her actual knowledge on the issues, data and risks facing each and with regard to each nation. Quotes, not readiness, happen in days.
-A bevy of positive statements from each leader--after all, that's why they were chosen--all being nations seeking U.S. favor, and having nothing to lose and potentially much to gain by doing so.
-A rush of "surprised" reactions from media at "how seriously she was taken," ready, as so often, to grasp the superficially new.
-An attempt by the McCain camp to drive through her supposed preparedness as a result, as quickly as possible, before the debates.
-Still no in-depth, free-form, extensive challenging interviews on the full range of foreign and domestic policy issues facing this nation from this prospective President.
Don't buy it.
A few days ago, she was ready to invade Russia (which she could see from her border).
Remember, for your security and future: A series of rehearsed quotes does not a President make.
Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-soft-preparedness-of-lowered.html
September 22, 2008 7:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
intrade and hubdub both show Obama slipping and McCain's numbers improving. intrade has also shown a 20 point EV loss from Obama states.
September 22, 2008 9:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Treasury Secretary Paulson is one of those Wall St. Vampires who made a killing a Goldman Sachs.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/09/wall-st-vampire-henry-paulson.php
Excerpt:
In the last annual report at Goldman that Paulson signed off on in November 2005, a year in which he received $38 million in compensation, investors were clearly told that the federal government wouldn't be there to save them from bad investments.
Paulson has also surrounded himself, at the Treasury Dept. With his Goldman Sachs cronies.
This is the Treasury version, of Rumsfeld, and the WMD scare.
Get on your Senators and Congress Reps. cases. Put the heat on them to not rush to authorize Bush/Paulson to wage war on our futures.
September 22, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink