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In Remarks On Bailout, Obama Sharpens Up Attacks On Bush, CEOs

In remarks this afternoon on the bailout, Barack Obama sharpened up his critique of the President and the bailout plan's "my-way-or-the-highway" aspects, invoking bad memories of past Bush haste and "intransigence" as a way of arguing for caution and the protection of taxpayers rather than letting our response be dictated by "fear or panic."

From the prepared remarks:

The President's stubborn inflexibility is both unacceptable and disturbingly familiar. This is not the time for my-way-or-the-highway intransigence from anyone involved. It's not the time for fear or panic. It's the time for resolve, responsibility, and reasonableness.

And it is wholly unreasonable to expect that American taxpayers would or should hand this Administration or any Administration a $700 billion blank check with absolutely no oversight or conditions when a lack of oversight in Washington and on Wall Street is exactly what got us into this mess.

Obama also cast unnamed CEOs as enemies of the national interest:

There has been talk that some CEOs may refuse to cooperate with this plan if they have to forgo multi-million-dollar salaries. I cannot imagine a position more selfish and greedy at a time of national crisis. And I would like to speak directly to those CEOs right now: Do not make that mistake...This plan cannot be a welfare program for Wall Street executives.

Obama's ratcheted up populist and anti-Bush rhetoric is about relying on mistrust of the Bush administration and corporate CEOs to counterbalance the panicked calls for an immediate solution and to create the political breathing room necessary for Congress to work towards a solution that has meaningful protections and oversight.

Obama also suggested ways to give the public a greater stake in the deal and to protect people dealing with the mortgage crisis, such as putting equity into these firms, rather than buying troubled assets, and giving government the authority to directly buy mortgages, rather than just mortgage-backed securities. Full remarks after the jump.

Yesterday, the President said that Congress should pass his proposal to ease the crisis on Wall Street without significant changes or improvements.

Now, there are many to blame for causing the current crisis, starting with the speculators who gamed the system and the regulators who looked the other way. But all of us now have a stake in solving it and saving our financial institutions from collapse. Because if we don't, the jobs and life savings of millions will be put at risk.

Given that fact, the President's stubborn inflexibility is both unacceptable and disturbingly familiar. This is not the time for my-way-or-the-highway intransigence from anyone involved. It's not the time for fear or panic. It's the time for resolve, responsibility, and reasonableness.

And it is wholly unreasonable to expect that American taxpayers would or should hand this Administration or any Administration a $700 billion blank check with absolutely no oversight or conditions when a lack of oversight in Washington and on Wall Street is exactly what got us into this mess.

Now that the American people are being called upon to finance this solution, the American people have the right to certain protections and assurances from Washington.

First, the plan must include protections to ensure that taxpayer dollars are not used to further reward the bad behavior of irresponsible CEOs on Wall Street. There has been talk that some CEOs may refuse to cooperate with this plan if they have to forgo multi-million-dollar salaries. I cannot imagine a position more selfish and greedy at a time of national crisis. And I would like to speak directly to those CEOs right now: Do not make that mistake. You are stewards for workers and communities all across our country who have put their trust in you. With the enormous rewards you have reaped come responsibilities, and we expect and demand that you to live up to them. This plan cannot be a welfare program for Wall Street executives.

Second, the power to spend $700 billion of taxpayer money cannot be left to the discretion of one man, no matter who he is or which party he is from. I have great respect for Secretary Paulson, but he cannot act alone. We should set up an independent board that includes some of the most respected figures in our country, chosen by Democrats and Republicans, to provide oversight and accountability at every step of the way. I am heartened that Secretary Paulson appeared to be softening on this position in his testimony this morning.

Third, if taxpayers are being asked to underwrite hundreds of billions of dollars to solve this crisis, they must be treated like investors. The American people should share in the upside as Wall Street recovers. There are different ways to accomplish this, including putting equity into these firms instead of buying their troubled assets.

But regardless of how we structure the plan, if the government makes any kind of profit on this deal, we must give every penny back to the taxpayers who put up the money in the first place. And after the economy recovers, we should institute a Financial Stability Fee on the entire financial services industry to repay any losses to the American people and make sure we are never asked to foot the bill for Wall Street's mistakes again. We can ask taxpayers to make an investment in the stability of our economy, but we cannot ask them to hand their money over to Wall Street without some expectation of return.

Fourth, the final plan must provide help to families who are struggling to stay in their homes. We cannot simply bailout Wall Street without helping the millions of innocent homeowners who are facing foreclosure.

There are a number of ways we can accomplish this. For example, we should consider giving the government the authority to purchase mortgages directly instead of simply mortgage-backed securities. In the past, such an approach has allowed taxpayers to profit as the housing market recovered. This is not simply a question of looking after homeowners, it's doubtful that the economy as a whole can recover without the restoration of our housing sector, including a rebound in the home values that have suffered dramatically in recent months.

Finally, the American people need to know that we feel as great a sense of urgency about the emergency on Main Street as we do about the emergency on Wall Street. I have repeatedly called on President Bush and Senator McCain to join me in supporting an economic stimulus plan for working families - a plan that would help folks cope with rising food and gas prices, save one million jobs by rebuilding our schools and roads, help states and cities avoid painful budget cuts and tax increases, and help homeowners stay in their homes.

Let me be clear - we shouldn't include this stimulus package into this particular legislation, but as we solve the immediate crisis on Wall Street, we should move with the same sense of urgency to help Main Street.

It is absolutely wrong to suggest that we cannot protect American taxpayers while still stabilizing our market and saving our financial system from collapse. We can and must do both.

In summary, there is no doubt negotiations over the next few days will be difficult. I will continue to keep in close touch with Secretary Paulson, Chairman Bernanke, and the leaders of Congress to ensure that we can work in a bipartisan manner to get this done as quickly as possible. Our country is being tested by a very serious crisis. We are all in this together, and we must come together as Democrats and Republicans, on Wall Street and on Main Street to solve it. And with the proper spirit of cooperation, I know we can.


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Today, he looked more presidential than ever.

Looking forward for Friday night.

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It's still a bad idea, even with all these safeguards being proposed. Warren Buffett just invested $5 billion in Goldman Sachs... these companies aren't on the verge of a bust when that happens.

The credit markets are not seizing up, a small segment is seizing up-- the massive banks at the center of the problem don't trust each other. Whoop-de-do. The financial system will route around the damage.

And all this to reduce the likelihood of a recession? I'm sorry, but I'm not giving a $700 billion gift to Wall St. for THAT. I've said it before, I'll say it again.

No way, no how, no bailout.

I am guessing I missed a REALLY good speech?

Thank you sir.

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I'm so glad he did this. He needs to remind voters that this is par for the course for the Bush administration. They always govern by crisis and threaten Democrats into going along with the Patriot Act and the Iraq War in the spirit of bipartisanship only to screw them with it later on.

Democrats shouldn't be cowed by this lame duck administration a third time. Bush has to make some serious concessions!

Good for him. It is clear that the administration is trying to railroad this through. John McCain is pushing back against Bush and Gingrich was saying yesterday that McCain would be able to use this against Obama (who McCain predicted would acquiesce to the Bush/Paulson plan). Good to see that Obama is fully as bright as I knew him to be and sees what is going on and refuses to play along. If the Republicans want to try to make us play the goat so that they can use it against us, they will have to do better than this.

Damn straight.

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What I've been reading today - the pressure from the administration and the Repugs to Do Something! Right This Fucking Second! really make me suspicious. This is crazy - banks aren't failing one every 5 minutes. Nobody has jumped.

This isn't 1929 - where's the emergency that demands immediate action?

At some point we have to defer to experts in the field. Question is which experts. Even common wisdom would assume that in the complex fabric of global financial and its political implications there is the possibility of a cascading effect. For instance, if some of these institutions do go under and the major holder is China (which I believe is the case with FNMA and FMC) then China may decide to not buy any more US bonds and then we are screwed.

This seems both simple and complex.

I think it's safe to say Bush and the Repubs have lost all trust in the "let's get this bill out quickly and then we'll fix it later" department.

I'm pretty sure one of those experts ought to be Governor Palin. I'm pretty sure she's driven by banks before, and maybe even used them. She's certainly more qualified to handle such financial emergencies than a "community organizer".

You mean snowbanks?

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Yes, I anxiously await Ste Sarah's prescription for this crisis. I'm also sure she is an expert, since I feel confident in saying that there is a bank in Wasilla, someone there has a mortgage, and the "first dude" most likely borrowed a few dollars once. We need to use all of the expertise we can bring to bear on this. But......how can we ever know her recommendations when no reporter can approach her within a mile???

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Better than that - see can see a bank from her house!

I'm pretty sure it was "experts" who got us in to this shit storm and these "experts" are the same ones who stand to profit from the bailout.

They should all be committing suicide in shame instead of robbing us.

Stupid comment about China. They're in the hole for half a trillion dollars in investments and one of their largest export markets if the US economy tanks and the dollar loses value. They will not be doing anything to undermine the US at this point, though they may try some gestures to encourage responsible management of the so-called "crisis."

Sage:

As a show of good faith before we hand over the $700 billion in free money with no strings attached, how about management at Goldman Sachs and others hand back their $2.5 Billion in bonuses for last year?

Check out this nugget from Digby. Very interesting if true:

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/long-term-capitol-by-digby-marci.html

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Goddamn -

Things that I used to think sounded like terribly far-fetched conspiracies - o, like taking America into a war overnight on a pack of lies that are coming apart even as we invade - have turned out in reality to be so much more surreal that I fucking believe this.

This really is another fucking manufactured crisis in order to squeeze the last damn dollar out of us - US - before Bush, Cheney and the rest take the money and run.

I really believe that. Don't do it, Congress!

It's more attempted Shock Capitalism.

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I've been saying for days now that these crooks are trying to shackle Obama hand and foot.

Enslavement of the next president.

We'll all becomes slaves to this crooked administration and their cronies!

More and more this is looking to be the scam of the century.

Century? Try best scam EVER!@!#!

Are you kidding me? A lame duck administration robs us for $700,000,000,000?

That is pure evil genius right there. Lex Fucking Luthor couldn't have pulled this off.

The current bail-out is bunk, but I'm sorry to say that this may very well be 1929 - or worse. I give it a 50% chance of happening.

Remember, the Great Depression didn't immediately follow the stock market crash. It took a few years to fully materialize. I'm thinking of writing a detailed post explaining the awful situation we've gotten ourselves into, but for you, you're just going to have to trust me on this.

Last night while riding the Metro home from work, I was overcome with incredible sadness. I kept looking at all the commuters and thinking, "You're all screwed and you don't even realize it yet. You're all the fiscal equivalent of dead-men walking"

May god have mercy on this nation.

Full discussion of this topic would be awesome, Awesom0.

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Please do write up a full explanation of this "crisis". I, too, walk around half depressed, wondering if I will have the money to do anything except survive a year from now. I see either a massive inflation, a depression, a devaluation of the dollar, or all put together.

However, this is a great "October Surprise" and may well be the factor that keeps the GOP in power in November. We Americans tend to not want to change horses in the middle of the stream, in this case a raging river.

Hoppy:
How will this help keep the GOP in power?

There are some good points made by Obama here. And I agree with much of his overview.

But, apparently time is of the essence and there is some urgency. What should not happen is to have a remedy that gets bogged down in partisanship and bureaucracy.

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But, apparently time is of the essence and there is some urgency. What should not happen is to have a remedy that gets bogged down in partisanship and bureaucracy.

You want to explain why and maybe give us some links to some sources to back it up?

Cause I don't see it. I don't see it at all. Banks are not bouncing all over the place. S & Ls aren't bouncing all over the place, either.

There's time for some thought with this much money involved. All this hurry up shit is very familiar - reminds me of nothing so much as Bush pushing us into war overnight - because the inspectors were coming up empty on the WMDs.

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In other words, Bernanke and Paulson are technocrats and Bush (and whoever is with him in his own party) are not stepping up to make the political case for this action. They are relying on Democrats to supply the political capital and take the resulting political fall out.

For this reason alone, Democrats should go REAL SLOW.

I am glad to see that Obama has expanded his thoughts on this -- questioning the need for buying troubled assets as the only possible way to provide stability in the system. Schumer also had a good point, that it would be preferable to start with a limited pool and see where that takes us.

Yes, the methods they are using only heightens the sens of distrust I have that this is absolutely necessary.

I understand your cynical agenda:

WASHINGTON (AFP) - Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama is ahead in four battleground states, according to a Quinnipiac University poll out Tuesday that suggested Obama could be benefiting from turmoil on Wall Street.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080923/ts_alt_afp/usvotestates

How do deductions made by an anonymous news writer from an independently conducted poll make Obama cynical?

Smarter monkeys, please.

If McCain were running against incumbent Democrats that had shitcanned our economy, that line would read

McCain could be benefiting from turmoil on Wall Street.

Don't be silly. It's a poll. It's not like Sen. Obama is out there saying "Vote for me because I'm not them!" He's putting out ideas. Ideas that voters like me agree with.

"apparantly"
lets try to rely on facts for a change rather then apperances

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shit! I would think I'd learn. I reached under the edge of the couch just now to try to get something that had fallen on the floor and moved under there. I pulled out a black widow. I figured it out right quick. She's dead.


this is a tough place for an arachnaphobe like me.

A black widow?!?!

Jesus christ.

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O honey - they're everywhere here.

And that's nothing compared to Brown Recluses.

And then out in the desert, there are the tarantulas.

It was my own private horror movie the first two weeks I lived in this house last summer. It had empty for a year and the spiders owned it.

I can't believe I made it through that. But I'm a lot less phobic now. (which is not to say I wouldn't have intense hysterics if the tarantulas decided to migrate through my yard.)

I just about passed out. Spiders and I don't mix.

I would take a flamethrower to my living room if I found a black widow.

I'd probably just pack a bag and move out.

I'm a neo-con when it comes to bugs in my house. I must know beyond a measure of a doubt that they're all dead.

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I am the world's most insane arachnaphobe. Ask my husband. He came home from work one time to find a huge mixing bowl on the carpet just inside the door with the carpet around it completely saturated with Raid. There was a spider under it.

It was one of the hardest things I've ever done moving in here alone: an empty house, but for a zillion huge ass ugly mofoing spiders, not a few of which are poisonous. I would never in my life have thought I would do this and last.

I just get up every morning here and tell Taos Mountain I'm not leaving.

Cause this place is addictive. Now I'll shut up about it- it's already crowded. ;)


speaking as one who is genocidal against centipedes, i feel your pain.

If you were a neo-con when it came to spiders, you would be in other peoples houses killing spiders. Fight them there so they don't follow you home!

They aren't immune to being flattened (my favorite method of dealing with them in places where I'd rather not have them). But they are pretty. ( ... smash!)

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I figured out after I'd smashed the first, o, 50 or so, that it was far more likely that I was going to smash them than that they'd ever get a chance at me.

As long as I don't do dumb ass things like reach under the couch.

Mmmm...yes, I used to live in AZ. Spiders didn't bother me, but the scorpians and centipedes in the house did freak me out.

And then there was the rattler behind the wood pile...

But, I love the Southwest! Can't find better sunsets anywhere.

Head down to the Apple Tree for a mimosa. Calm you down.

EEEEEEEEEEEEK!

Bush will not concede, you watch. If Democrats cave here, they are thieves too. In a way they already have, because they've agreed a bail out is needed to begin with. This is serious. They are about to give money to financial corporations that would have gone to public infrastructure. Remember that next time you go to the bank, they got the money that would have went to education or law enforcement. I wish people would realize this was the plan from the beginning. They broke this country on purpose folks. Remember Grover Norquist, "Drown the government in the bath tube" come on folks, they've done it. They stole the treasury with the Iraq war, and now the bank bail out. This is treason. They should all be shot.

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I'm with you Zeno, my man. This is another well-crafted Refucklican trap - if the Dems help pass this stinking refuse pile of a bailout, Gotcha! The Dems are complicit with Bush/Wall Street in selling out the common man and the national interest (by the way, I would agree with this sentiment). If they don't pass the plan, Gotcha! The Dems are responsible for vaporizing the economy.

Instead, they have to flank the Refucks. Say "No, the very premise of your plan is a lie. The problem here is not a few million bad mortgages - which there are, but they are but a tiny aspect of a much greater rot. The problem has been 35 years of deregulation (and yes, we admit the Dems are partially responsible for this), deindustrialization, bad trade deals and adherence to fundamentally anti-American concepts such as Free Trade and Globalization. These things have destroyed everything FDR did to mop up the last cluster fuck the Refucks dumped on the country. Well, nice try, but no thanks. We are bring back FDR policies and let the Hedge Fund and Investment Bank managers soil their designer tighty whities all they want, we are not letting these sharks rape this country to death as Bush's parting gift."

Zeno:
Agree 100%. Not a dime for these crooks. They looted the banks on their way out by selling stock and racking up huge bonuses. They knew they were holding worthless paper and left stockholders, employees and homeowners holding the bag ... and now the government lets them off the hook. Why is it the Conservative Republicans are looking so good right now?

Sen. Jim Bunning, a conservative Republican from Kentucky and a long-time Federal Reserve critic, said that he could not support the proposal.

"It will not help struggling homeowners pay their mortgages. It will not bring a halt to the slide in home prices," Bunning said. "This massive bailout is not a solution. It's financial socialism and it's un-American."
- CNN

Obama looks Presidential as he command the stage today. He showed an indepth knowledge of the issue. George Will must be happy with his level of reasonableness. McCain has been eratic on this issue.

The democrats should not be bullied into signing a blank check.

can someone tell me what it means when someone replies to your comment with: +1

Many thanks.

"I agree"

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+1

thanks

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I'm lazy and I have fat fingers.  It's less typing than "co-sign".

it's all good... now if only someone can tell me how to upload a pic that works, I'll be set.

I've tried approx 10 pics already. waste of time

I see one.

ok, i got one that works... but that pic sucks! wtf is it? haha

A gerbil holding a sledge hammer?

it's adorable yet potentially deadly. can't lose.

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It's Richard Gere's pet gerbil.

he is always a couple steps ahead of the discussion at hand. It is very reasurring.

I know, won't it be great to have a President who's, like...smart?

Gingrich is already trying to sell this as Bush-Obama bailout. Dems are going to get played. GOPers are counting on Dems to pass this while they all vote "No" and then run home raving about tax-and-spend liberals.

If Bush and King Henry and Boy Bernanke can't convince their own party that there is a crisis, then apparently things are not so dire that they won't wait until January when President Obama can take up the issue thoughtfully.

If Congressional Republicans are going to sit on the sidelines then run against the bailout this fall then Bush is no longer in the position to say "my-way-or-the-highway". That puts Democrats in the position to say it's the American people's-way-or-the-highway. And it sounds like Obama and Dodd understand that they are in position to demand changes that are in our interests.

If Republicans are going to play political chicken with the world economy then it is time once and for all for Democrats to call their bluff. Demand it all; equity stakes, executive pay restrictions, Congressional and Judicial oversight, mortgage re-negotiation, CEO public humiliation and a pound of flesh or two. Take it or leave it.

And while they are at it, can i get a bailout for this college loan that has been kicking my butt ever since graduation.

How about bailing out small business owners who owe back child support as result of slow business due to the real estate market.

Yes, help out main street, we sure need it.

but even if i could just get the student loan bailout, i would be singing while doing backflips in the rain.

Yeah, I want some of that action, too. Do we need to hire a lobbyist?

ah.......tena, we find black widows all over the place........they don't even scare me anymore....can't believe I just said that, but its true.....i just let them run away.....

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I'm getting used to it.

As long as they stay outside I can deal. It just doesn't jive for me and civilization to have them in the house. At least where I can see them. They are in my vigas - there's nothing you can do about that, as far as I can tell. My gorgeous exterminator, Marcus, failed to show up at the end of August like he was supposed to.

I'm seeing more activity. Plus the rain.

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O - and I will forgive Marcus on account of his flawless smile and the fact that he calls me Senora.

I love that. It beats Ma'am all to hell.

Okay, this, from The Poor Man, is priceless:

http://thepoorman.net/

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This is great satire. I just sent it to my whole email group. This could be one of those great viral emails that can help galvanize a restitant population. Thanks.

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Yup, it really gives you a picture of what is going on here! Don't miss it! Everyone's favorite Nigerian request....

Off topic but...the debate could be a hoot:

Biden garbles Depression history

"When the stock market crashed, Franklin Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the princes of greed," Biden told Couric. "He said, 'Look, here's what happened.'"

As Reason's Jesse Walker footnotes it: "And if you owned an experimental TV set in 1929, you would have seen him. And you would have said to yourself, 'Who is that guy? What happened to President Hoover?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Biden_garbles_Depression_history.html?showall

haha.

Eh, close enough.

Lack of knowledge of the year the television was invented is a pretty minor infraction these days. I mean the other VP candidate is locked in the soundproof booth from "Quiz Show."

What can I say aside from the fact that he's completely right-on? This is exactly what we all needed to hear from him, and I couldn't be happier than he said it. His consistency on this issue is also, in comparison to McCain, refreshing. People are complaining that he's not acting fast enough, and I know that there is urgency here. But honestly, I would rather have him think through everything and then come to a conclusion, than for him to do as McCain did, and start spewing out reckless and hotheaded remarks.

wow, i just read his comments. this man should be president. period. the leadership we need... "I want to talk to those CEOs (who will be reluctant to agree to terms of bailout if there are exec pay conditions) right now... this cannot be a welfare program for Wall St"

kudos, sir.

WE NEED YOUR HELP.

Please sign this petition for Senator Sanders of VT.
He wants the bailout to be paid by the wealthy who caused this debacle. The dems could be put in a bad situation if they support the bill and hang it on the US taxpayers while the repubs decide to vote against it. This proposal would make more sense to support the middle class at the expense of the upper 1%. We needs millions of signatures to make it effective.

http://sanders.senate.gov/petitions/?petition=Financial_Crisis_1

Just say no to this insane approach of "welfare" for wall street. This is a trap to con the democrats to vote for this reckless plan of a bailout w/out strings and provide a massive gift of taxpayers money to who knows and for what.

We need to apply the brakes and refuse to cave in!

During the congressional hearing, Paulson is asked what's the rush to get a deal done? Paulson says, this is an extraordinary situation requiring extraordinary action.

Extraordinary, indeed. The longer this deal is allowed to sit on the counter and thaw, the more it reeks with the stench of past Bush policies. This seems to be one last desperate attempt to drown this government in the tub.

Republican = Jerry Springer watching COUNTRY CLUB SOCIALISTS,
What could possibly more hilarious then that.

Any chance of explaining yourself?

no, ya have to use your own noggin here my boy

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If he had a point - it would still be impossible because he types what they tell him.

At least he's laughing.

ok I get it.

Good to see Obama out front, strong and coherent on this. I'd like to see him and more Democrats stating outright that George Bush, Dick Cheney and their allies have no credibility and have proven themselves completely unworthy of the American people's trust.

Seconded.

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Beautiful!

If he "tacks to the center" this time, there will be some ugly consequences. Let's hope he has more balls and has learned how to lead since the FISA thing.

Is the video of Obama's speech and the press conference that followed available? Hearing Obama speak on the issue was more powerful than any political ad. The word "presidential" comes to mind.

testing

First, Fannie and Freddie need to lower their thirty year fixed rate to 4.5% immediately to anyone that currently has a loan with them. This would help put a stop to the foreclosure problem by helping home owners make payments.

Second, the prime interest rate needs to be raised immediately to battle inflation that is getting out of control.

Third, these phony investment banks should just be left to tank. They create wealth without actually creating work or manufacturing jobs. It's all a farce. Its just a way for these bozo's to suck money out of the economy at the taxpayers expense. We pay the taxes that put these people in place that guard our nation and make the laws that enable this business environment to exist.

Forth, AIG isn't a big issue because, if managed right, the U.S. can easily make their money back and then some, making this a profitable bail out.

That's all I have to say about that.

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That seems very sensible to me, Mike.

Its really puzzling how the Administration is so dead set against helping the homeowner. In particular, they are opposed to rewriting bankruptcy laws to allow renegotiation of mortgages to affordable levels for the homeowner.

If these assets are now "worthless" (no one wants to buy them) because the underlying sub prime are defaulting at higher than expected rates, then it stands to reason that slowing the default rate by reissuing the loan so it does not default can only improve the market value of these assets from it current value of "worthless".

By bailing out the homeowner, its true that they will not recover all the value they had anticipated from these assets but it will restore market confidence because 1) lenders can be fairly confident that borrowers with these types of assets now have a lower risk of "write-downs" and 2) it keeps homeowners in their homes maintaining a reasonable cash flow into the future.

By being dead set against rewriting bankruptcy laws the Administration reveals they are more interested in preserving the anticipated profits of these bogus assets and less about righting the economy and its housing bubble.

Before we get all carried away with this "bailing out the homeowner" talk, I'd like to look a little more closely at what homeowners, exactly, we are talking about, and how we propose to help them.

Subprime borrowers who got lured into unaffordable loans by shady or deceptive loan-marketers ... that's one thing.

McMansion owners who knowingly maxed out their credit limits to grab as huge a piece of the American pie as they could get their greedy hands on, because they had complete faith in their man George W and his "ownership society," and dripped with contempt at us eco-tards mewling about limited resources and disappearing open spaces and energy conservation and other such candy-ass liberal notions ... that's something totally different.

I don't mind lending a hand to Type A, but I am pretty reluctant, to say the least, to provide a bailout to Type B.

Type A definitely because the mortgage is on their primary home- the one they actually live in. I understand your hesitation with type B and I share it on principles of personal/financial responsibility.

However, given that we are where we are, it is much more palatable to bail out anyone with a "distressed" home mortgage than bailing out Wall Streets' "masters of the universe" and their "distressed" bogus financial instruments (CDO's for example) for a couple of reasons:

1) with their MBA, dizzying accounting maneuvers and obscene compensation, they should have known better about the risk of default of these underlying mortgages and hence the true value of these assets. If they had done this properly and honestly the market would have priced these assets correctly avoiding the balance sheet mess of write-downs and the ensuing market non-confidence in any institution that may have these types of assets.

2) Because the root cause of this crisis begins with the higher than expected rate of default for home mortgages, addressing that no matter the type of borrower will only serve to prop up the value of these bogus financial instruments and therefore move the financial markets back to confidence.
Also, by keeping these mortgages instead of foreclosing means homeowners keep their home and localities can continue to collect the appropriate taxes. A foreclosed home is a drain on resources for any city and its future cash flow is zero (maybe even negative). Not good for anyone.


Because the future cash flows from renegotiated home mortgages will be less than before, there will be a loss on these CDO's and similar assets but at least it will not be zero as its value would be when no one wants to buy them.
This loss for Wall Street as a result of 1) is completely deserved for them. It is this loss the Administration wants the taxpayers to cover and then some for recapitalization. Simply outrageous!

Obama is just do darn...reasonable. What a refreshing quality that would be in a president.

To "dark corners" - I signed your petition - And we can all sign this petition - It's for the entire country - all of us. Do it now and please spread the word.

http://sanders.senate.gov/petitions/?petition=Financial_Crisis_1

Also keep after your Senators and Reps DAILY via email and phone (if you can get through).

Obama is looking more presidential and mcsenile is looking more like a fool each day. Finally, mcsenile's got the press going against him - Finally! "Networks Revolt!"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/23/networks-revolt-against-r_n_128608.html

You know, reading Obama's remarks above, it strikes me that he may have just won the election.

CHECKMATE!

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This is what he needs to do every day - stand out there and explain clearly what's going on, what the dangers are, what questions need to be answered and why we mustn't panic.

The Bush admin has spent 8 years getting their way by scaring everyone. They're trying it again. We need a voice of reason RIGHT NOW to help steer us through this situation. And, by jeezum, Obama's is a voice of reason.

Any CEO who refuses to participate in the government bailout because of CEO pay would have hell to pay from his shareholders and (more importantly) their attorneys. CEOs of these firms are in no position to bargain.

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Great stuff from Obama.


McCain is taking his turn at trying to look Presidential. I sounds like he's taking the side of Paulson in saying that we need to pass this bill "as quickly as possible". He's still making noises about oversight and transparency, but it seems clear that he's positioning himself to side with the "OMG, Do it NOW" crowd.

This might turn into a political football despite Obama's best efforts. Pelosi needs to get her Blue Dogs in line now, so that we can put forward a real bill that addresses all our needs.

I also sounds like McCain is attempting to maneuver our of explicitly promising to actually vote on this bill. Reid needs to keep that in mind, and schedule the vote appropriately.

WTF is wrong with my "t" key? I missed it twice there. :)

Obama should do daily pressers - to show how ridiculous McCain/Palin are being. Also I think Obama is doing pressers to help him get ready for the debate.

McCain hasn't done a presser in so long, and has only done phony town-halls, I was hoping he'd have been off his game. too bad he decided to do a presser today.

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HusseinTenaX -- I had a horrible spider infestation in my condo when I first bought it. I found 17 live spiders in my bedroom alone when I was moving in.

I finally figured out where they were coming from -- someone had made a plumbing repair behind the toilet and left a fist-sized hole in the drywall. After patching that and the too-large holes made for water pipes to washer and dishwasher, the spider problem was much less.

If you haven't already done so, check everywhere for holes in the drywall - even small ones. I caught a spider trying to crawl through a phone outlet once. Crafty devils they are.

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O my dear you are so kind. There is no such thing as drywall in an adobe house.

;)

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sorry to hijack more thread - but the architecture here is peculiarly suited for spiders. If you don't know what vigas are, well, it's a kind of ceiling - they lay large beams and then in between they lay vigas - which are traditionally slender aspen poles. Or they can be other materials. It's perfect.

You just kind of live with it - except I have an exterminator who is supposed to show up every month. Marcus just didn't show up last month.

I'll get him at the end of September.

:)

not my words, from espn.com's TMQ:

The 1980 Chrysler bailout, which was nationally debated for months before happening, cost $3.2 billion, in present-value dollars, and was financed by revenue rather than by borrowing. Here is the borrowing that's happened in 2008 alone, with precious little public debate:
• $29 billion to bail out Bear Stearns.
• $40 billion in the first mortgage-holder bailout.
• $80 billion for an additional year of Iraq war operations. (Another $150-$200 billion in war costs such as future veterans' disability benefits were incurred but not funded.)
• Up to $85 billion to bail out AIG.
• $153 billion to households for "economic stimulus."
• $200 billion, and possibly more, to bail out Fannie and Freddie.
• $290 billion in farm subsidies, despite agricultural prices and grains profits being at record highs.
• $700 billion general bailout of securities backed by bad debt. (The International Monetary Fund estimates this figure will rise to at least $1 trillion.)
That comes to $1.6 trillion, explaining the debt-ceiling rise, and does not include roughly $300 billion in essentially interest-free cash issued to banks by the Federal Reserve on an emergency basis, which may or may not be repaid, but which in any case make all existing money somewhat less valuable. Why is the debt aspect of the splurge barely being remarked on by the mainstream media and by politicians? Why are the young not furious? And about that $700 billion about to the shoveled to the Wall Street elite -- in 2007, George W. Bush vetoed an increase of $7 billion per year in health care spending for the poor, saying the country couldn't afford it.

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Obama has the germ of the solution in his remarks, and may not see it.

If we're talking about 700 billion dollars, which will have to be borrowed anyway, why not do this:

Put up 150 billion now for the bailout, with all the strings attached that Obama and Dodd have discussed. But, contrary to what Obama says above, DO include a stimulus package. Another 250 billion to build roads, bridges, schools, improve networks and electronic grids, etc.

That (the stimulus part) will create jobs and help the economy.

The remaining 300 billion dollars will be withheld until after the election . . . actually, until after the next president takes over . . . Congress will have time to reassess and decide if more stimulus or bailout is needed and where to put it.

IOW, kick up Main Street and Wall Street, as a part of the same package, and hold 300 billion more in reserve.

Make this more populist and Obama will get a twofer:

1. It's the right thing to do
2. It will help him win the election

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God you are smart.


(could you take me to Tir Na Nog? I'm tired of getting older...)

I agree with Jonze, Obama should now be doing daily pressers (with the flags in the background), and get on all the Sunday talk shows as well. This will wear out mcsenile because he will have to attempt to keep up with Obama, which he cannot possibly do, will lose his temper, misspeak, and make himself even more of a fool (I could use stronger language, but will refrain.)

mcsenile is scheduled to a 15 minute presser sometime today, but Obama's was much longer - I hope there is a link to it. Also, I read on Huffington that palin and Karzai chatted about kids! So what did she talk to Henry about - his great, great grandkids??? And where's the photo of her with Uribe (Pres of Colombia) - Now didn't Mark Penn's visit to Colombia get him into some trouble with Hillary's campaign re the trade proposal. Hmmmmm

I do hope the msm are now getting on mcsenile. It appears we have George Will and Sam Donaldson tilting in our favor. How about if they interview mcsenile.

I was awoken from a nap to John McCain giving his "5 points" of things that needed to be included in any bail out plan..... They sounded an awful lot like those bullet points in Obama's plan from over a week ago. Can anyone confirm for me?

I just heard Bush cry "WOLF!"

Repugs want to hang this albatross around Obama's neck. What would happen if congress chose to address this after the election and just allow it to stew for 6 weeks or so. GAO should be reviewing the whole shebang before anyone signs on the dotted line. Oh, and Bernanke and Paulsen should be impeached. the 50 billion to AIG was illegal, per the Federal Reserve Act of 1913

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I am all for this being done once Obama is inaugurated.

On the bail out - Just give them the $79 billion in surplus oil revenue sitting in Iraq - Then do more investigations and hearings, hire a special prosecutor and a grand jury, get some indictments going on these creeps, and wait until next year.

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Obama: "With the enormous rewards you have reaped come responsibilities..."

This quote from the speech encapsulates, I believe, the whole philosophy of Obama's public service and of his call for all of us to work for change.

I believe quotes like that one will become the clarion call of his presidency, repeated over and over.

I love this guy! You can hear his voice as you read the speeches. He's got great writers. But they've got an inspiring leader to write for!

i really like what i'm hearing from Obama economics-wise. but i'm concerned that the nuances will sail right over anyone (read: low-info voters) who isn't considering this stuff carefully. what are the chances that Obama's proposals will be twisted so that casual readers/listeners won't get it?

how do we combat this? i hate the creeping feeling that the GOP is plotting to screw the Dems with a classic tragic choice (i.e. only two options, and they both suck).

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Seems to me what we've got going here now is an elaborate game of "chicken." Who's gonna blink? Well, honestly, I've got some assets too. But I'd far rather risk the downside now than give these crooks the money!

I think we need a huge investor movement. For people to simply say: I'm not blinking. I'm not panicking. Let's let the fat cats step up to the plate and blink first!

The way I see it, the thuglies didn't get social security (yet) but they may very well get this bailout. They want as much of our money as they can get their hands on cut loose in the market.
Once it's in the pipeline we have pretty good idea where it'll end up.

The urgency is both real and manufactured in order to squeeze the naysayers into acquiescing.

Over and above the issue of executive experience, Obama is clearly the voice of reason not just with Dems but increasingly with people like George Will who know that now is the time for leaders to step up and Obama is the one who has.

I also think that Independents and other undecideds will start to make up their minds pretty quick here because the stakes are for real now. This is the shit folks.

Celebrity? Who cares. Arugula? Don't you wish. Black? So long as he stops the bleeding, it doesn't matter.

It's either that or, you know . . . The old Maverick and his sidekick Sally. A retired rodeo show.

Take your pick.

Why is there this urgency to pass this bailout this week - There's got to more to it than the congressional adjournment. What's the deal - Have the Saudis, the other mideast oil trillionaires, and the Chinese - all decided to ask for their money back. Do they want it by Friday? What do they know that we don't? Especially since Cheney's visit to the hill today, I've been wondering if there's something really horribly dark and very evil about all this.

It seems like Paulson was almost hysterical and insisting that this must be done this week. Remember a few years ago - that event where Congress debated the Schiavo matter late at night, I believe on a Sunday. That was quite hideous, but this is really crucial and there is no reason, not even elections, for an adjournment before at least the middle of October.

This is always how they have done things and by now we know it to be a precursor to something we all regret later.

Every dollar we drop into this black hole of a bailout will be gone forever. IT WON'T WORK. It's a terrible idea. Here's what happened in Japan in 1998 courtesy of www.economicpopulist.org:


In 1998, Japan decided to "recapitalize" its banks to the tune of 60 trillion yen, or 12% of the GDP of Japan. Just 6 months later another 7.5 trillion yen of taxpayer money was dropped into 15 banks.

These are similar numbers to what is being passed around Washington this week. Which brings up the important question of - how well did the bailout work?

So far, 25 trillion yen in tax money has been spent, or $238 billion at current exchange rates, on a government overhaul of the financial system, out of $666 billion allocated for that purpose in 1998. Even more has been spent to prop up banks and other financial institutions indirectly, through credit-guarantee programs and the like.

"We are standing at the same divide where we were standing two years ago, when we recapitalized the banks," said Yasuhisa Shiozaki, a youngish legislator from the governing Liberal Democratic Party, who has been a rather lonely advocate of painful financial restructuring. "We can either recapitalize the banks again, or we can just let them go bust."
[...]

Ruling-party politicians quickly scrapped the plan, and Sogo failed, blowing away the fig leaf that covered Japan's supposedly resolved bad-debt problems. "What we found out with Sogo and afterward is that the essential and fundamental problems of the Japanese economy were still there or perhaps even worse," Mr. Shiozaki said.

THE PROBLEMS OF THE ECONOMY WERE STILL THERE OR PERHAPS EVEN WORSE.

On hearing McCain offer almost the same points as Obama had, it was apparent that his press team had listened to Obama's speech and crafted McCain's response in response to it. Stealing his lines, ideas, again. OK, in that case, Obama just has to say, "I'm glad to hear McCain agrees with my proposals. This puts us on a firm ground for a bipartisan solution."

Otherwise, the 2 press conferences could not have been more different. McCain avoided questions, clearly didn't want to take many, and spoke to the bailout in only the most general terms. Obama very directly addressed the specifics of the problem, in a way that I'm sure reporters appreciated. I'M WAITING FOR THE PUNDITS (impartial) TO CONTRAST THEIR PERFORMANCES.

Obama was specific and even found room to chastise CEO's. Its awesome in a presidential way. The only accomplishment in McSame's presser is he broke his record of some 40 days with holding one.

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." John Kenneth Galbraith

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