Speaking To Veterans, Obama Directly Takes On McCain's Attacks On His Patriotism
Barack Obama is giving his speech before the Veterans of Foreign Wars right now. With some Dems questioning whether he's hitting back hard enough against John McCain's attacks, Obama went out of his way to directly confront McCain's claim that he would rather lose a war than lose an election.
From the prepared remarks:
But one of the things that we have to change in this country is the idea that people can't disagree without challenging each other's character and patriotism. I have never suggested that Senator McCain picks his positions on national security based on politics or personal ambition. I have not suggested it because I believe that he genuinely wants to serve America's national interest. Now, it's time for him to acknowledge that I want to do the same.Let me be clear: I will let no one question my love of this country. I love America, so do you, and so does John McCain. When I look out at this audience, I see people of different political views. You are Democrats and Republicans and Independents. But you all served together, and fought together, and bled together under the same proud flag. You did not serve a Red America or a Blue America -- you served the United States of America.
So let's have a serious debate, and let's debate our disagreements on the merits of policy -- not personal attacks. And no matter how heated it gets or what kind of campaign he chooses to run, I will honor Senator McCain's service, just like I honor the service of every veteran in this room, and every American who has worn the uniform of the United States.
Obama declared that it's time for McCain to "acknowledge" that Obama genuinely wants to serve America's national interest. It'll be interesting to see what McCain says if and when he's asked directly by reporters whether he's prepared to acknowledge this -- and how hard the national press corps will grill him for a direct answer to the question.
Keep in mind that the McCain campaign endorsed Joe Lieberman's claim that Obama hasn't always put his country first. Obama's full speech after the jump.
Late Update: Here's video:
Thank you, Commander Lisicki, for your leadership. Let me also acknowledge the leadership of Virginia Carman, the president of the VFW ladies auxiliary, as well as my friend Jim Webb who will be speaking here later today. Finally, let me thank all of the members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States of America for inviting me back to this convention. It is a privilege to be among so many who have given so much for our country.
I stand before you today at a defining moment in our history. We are in the midst of two wars. The terrorists who attacked us on 9/11 are still at large. Russia has invaded the sovereign nation of Georgia. Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons. The next Commander-in-Chief is going to have to exercise the best possible judgment in getting us through these difficult times.
Yesterday, Senator McCain came before you. He is a man who has served this nation honorably, and he correctly stated that one of the chief criteria for the American people in this election is going to be who can exercise the best judgment as Commander in Chief. But instead of just offering policy answers, he turned to a typical laundry list of political attacks. He said that I have changed my position on Iraq when I have not. He said that I am for a path of "retreat and failure." And he declared, "Behind all of these claims and positions by Senator Obama lies the ambition to be president" - suggesting, as he has so many times, that I put personal ambition before my country.
That is John McCain's prerogative. He can run that kind of campaign, and - frankly - that's how political campaigns have been run in recent years. But I believe the American people are better than that. I believe that this defining moment demands something more of us.
If we think that we can secure our country by just talking tough without acting tough and smart, then we will misunderstand this moment and miss its opportunities. If we think that we can use the same partisan playbook where we just challenge our opponent's patriotism to win an election, then the American people will lose. The times are too serious for this kind of politics. The calamity left behind by the last eight years is too great. So let me begin by offering my judgment about what we've done, where we are, and where we need to go.
Six years ago, I stood up at a time when it was politically difficult to oppose going to war in Iraq, and argued that our first priority had to be finishing the fight against Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Senator McCain was already turning his sights to Iraq just days after 9/11, and he became a leading supporter of an invasion and occupation of a country that had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks, and that - as despicable as Saddam Hussein was - posed no imminent threat to the American people. Two of the biggest beneficiaries of that decision were al Qaeda's leadership, which no longer faced the pressure of America's focused attention; and Iran, which has advanced its nuclear program, continued its support for terror, and increased its influence in Iraq and the region.
In the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, I warned that war would fan the flames of extremism in the Middle East, create new centers of terrorism, and tie us down in a costly and open-ended occupation. Senator McCain predicted that we'd be greeted as liberators, and that the Iraqis would bear the cost of rebuilding through their bountiful oil revenues. For the good of our country, I wish he had been right, and I had been wrong. But that's not what history shows.
Senator McCain now argues that despite these costly strategic errors, his judgment has been vindicated due to the results of the surge. Let me once again praise General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker - they are outstanding Americans. In Iraq, gains have been made in lowering the level of violence thanks to the outstanding efforts of our military, the increasing capability of Iraq's Security Forces, the ceasefire of Shiite militias, and the decision taken by Sunni tribes to take the fight to al Qaeda. Those are the facts, and all Americans welcome them.
But understand what the essential argument was about. Before the surge, I argued that the long-term solution in Iraq is political - the Iraqi government must reconcile its differences and take responsibility for its future. That holds true today. We have lost over a thousand American lives and spent hundreds of billions of dollars since the surge began, but Iraq's leaders still haven't made hard compromises or substantial investments in rebuilding their country. Our military is badly overstretched - a fact that has surely been noted in capitals around the world. And while we pay a heavy price in Iraq - and Americans pay record prices at the pump - Iraq's government is sitting on a $79 billion dollar budget surplus from windfall oil profits.
Let's be clear: our troops have completed every mission they've been given. They have created the space for political reconciliation. Now it must be filled by an Iraqi government that reconciles its differences and spends its oil profits to meet the needs of its people. Iraqi inaction threatens the progress we've made and creates an opening for Iran and the "special groups" it supports. It's time to press the Iraqis to take responsibility for their future. The best way to do that is a responsible redeployment of our combat brigades, carried out in close consultation with commanders on the ground. We can safely redeploy at a pace that removes our combat brigades in 16 months. That would be well into 2010 - seven years after the war began. After this redeployment, we'll keep a residual force to target remnants of al Qaeda; to protect our service members and diplomats; and to train Iraq's Security Forces if the Iraqis make political progress.
Iraq's democratically-elected Prime Minister has embraced this timeframe. Now it's time to succeed in Iraq by turning Iraq over to its sovereign government. We should not keep sending our troops to fight tour after tour of duty while our military is overstretched. We should not keep spending $10 billion a month in Iraq while Americans struggle in a sluggish economy. Ending the war will allow us to invest in America, to strengthen our military, and to finish the fight against al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan and the border region of Pakistan.
This is the central front in the war on terrorism. This is where the Taliban is gaining strength and launching new attacks, including one that just took the life of ten French soldiers. This is where Osama bin Laden and the same terrorists who killed nearly 3,000 Americans on our own soil are hiding and plotting seven years after 9/11. This is a war that we have to win. And as Commander-in-Chief, I will have no greater priority than taking out these terrorists who threaten America, and finishing the job against the Taliban.
For years, I have called for more resources and more troops to finish the fight in Afghanistan. With his overwhelming focus on Iraq, Senator McCain argued that we could just "muddle through" in Afghanistan, and only came around to supporting my call for more troops last month. Now, we need a policy of "more for more" - more from America and our NATO allies, and more from the Afghan government. That's why I've called for at least two additional U.S. combat brigades and an additional $1 billion in non-military assistance for Afghanistan, with a demand for more action from the Afghan government to take on corruption and counternarcotics, and to improve the lives of the Afghan people.
We must also recognize that we cannot succeed in Afghanistan or secure America as long as there is a terrorist safe-haven in northwest Pakistan. A year ago, I said that we must take action against bin Laden and his lieutenants if we have them in our sights and Pakistan cannot or will not act. Senator McCain criticized me and claimed that I was for "bombing our ally." So for all of his talk about following Osama bin Laden to the Gates of Hell, Senator McCain refused to join my call to take out bin Laden across the Afghan border. Instead, he spent years backing a dictator in Pakistan who failed to serve the interests of his own people.
I argued for years that we need to move from a "Musharraf policy" to a "Pakistan policy." We must move beyond an alliance built on mere convenience or a relationship with one man. Now, with President Musharraf's resignation, we have the opportunity to do just that. That's why I've cosponsored a bill to triple non-military aid to the Pakistani people, while ensuring that the military assistance we do provide is used to take the fight to the Taliban and al Qaeda in the tribal regions of Pakistan.
Today, our attention is also on the Republic of Georgia, and Senator McCain and I both strongly support the people of Georgia and the Americans delivering humanitarian aid. There is no possible justification for Russia's actions. Russian troops have yet to begin the withdrawal required by the cease-fire signed by their president, and we are hearing reports of Russian atrocities: burning wheat fields, brutal killing, and the destruction of Georgia's infrastructure and military assets.
This crisis underscores the need for engaged U.S. leadership in the world. We failed to head off this conflict and lost leverage in our ability to contain it because our leaders have been distracted, our resources overstretched, and our alliances frayed. American leadership means getting engaged earlier to shape events so that we're not merely responding to them. That's why I'm committed to renewing our leadership and rebuilding our alliances as President of the United States.
For months, I have called for active international engagement to resolve the disputes over South Ossetia and Abkhazia. I made it crystal clear before, at the beginning of, and during this conflict that Georgia's territorial integrity must be respected, and that Georgia should be integrated into transatlantic institutions. I have condemned Russian aggression, and today I reiterate my demand that Russia abide by the cease-fire. Russia must know that its actions will have consequences. They will imperil the Civil Nuclear Agreement, and Russia's standing in the international community - including the NATO-Russia Council, and Russia's desire to participate in organizations like the WTO and the OECD. Finally, we must help Georgia rebuild what has been destroyed. That is why I'm proud to join my friend, Senator Joe Biden, in calling for an additional $1 billion in reconstruction assistance for the people of Georgia.
These are the judgments I've made and the policies that we have to debate, because we do have differences in this election. But one of the things that we have to change in this country is the idea that people can't disagree without challenging each other's character and patriotism. I have never suggested that Senator McCain picks his positions on national security based on politics or personal ambition. I have not suggested it because I believe that he genuinely wants to serve America's national interest. Now, it's time for him to acknowledge that I want to do the same.
Let me be clear: I will let no one question my love of this country. I love America, so do you, and so does John McCain. When I look out at this audience, I see people of different political views. You are Democrats and Republicans and Independents. But you all served together, and fought together, and bled together under the same proud flag. You did not serve a Red America or a Blue America - you served the United States of America.
So let's have a serious debate, and let's debate our disagreements on the merits of policy - not personal attacks. And no matter how heated it gets or what kind of campaign he chooses to run, I will honor Senator McCain's service, just like I honor the service of every veteran in this room, and every American who has worn the uniform of the United States.
One of those Americans was my grandfather, Stanley Dunham.
My father left when I was 2, so my grandfather was the man who helped raise me. He grew up in El Dorado, Kansas - a town too small to warrant boldface on a road map. He worked on oil rigs and drifted from town to town during the Depression. Then he met my grandmother and enlisted after Pearl Harbor. He would go on to march across Europe in Patton's Army, while my great uncle fought with the 89th Infantry Division to liberate Buchenwald, my grandmother worked on a bomber assembly line, and my mother was born at Fort Leavenworth. After my grandfather left the Army, he went to college on the GI Bill, bought his home with help from the Federal Housing Authority, and he and my grandmother moved west in a restless pursuit of their dreams.
They were among the men and women of our Greatest Generation. They came from ordinary places, and went on to do extraordinary things. They survived a Depression and faced down fascism. And when the guns fell silent, America stood by them, because they had a government that didn't just ask them to win a war - it helped them to live their dreams in peace, and to become the backbone of the largest middle class that the world has ever known. In the five years after World War II, the GI Bill helped 15 million veterans get an education. Two million went to college. Millions more learned a trade in factories or on farms. Four million veterans received help in buying a home, leading to the biggest home construction boom in our history.
And these veterans didn't just receive a hand from Washington - they did their part to lift up America, just as they'd done their duty in defending it. They became teachers and doctors, cops and firefighters who were the foundation of our communities. They became the innovators and small business owners who helped drive the American economy. They became the scientists and engineers who helped us win the space race against the Soviets. They won a Cold War, and left a legacy to their children and grandchildren who reached new horizons of opportunity.
I am a part of that legacy. Without it, I would not be standing on this stage today. And as President, I will do everything that I can to keep the promise, to advance the American Dream for all our veterans, and to enlist them in the cause of building a stronger America.
Our young men and women in uniform have proven that they are the equal of the Greatest Generation on the battlefield. Now, we must ensure that our brave troops serving abroad today become the backbone of our middle class at home tomorrow. Those who fight to defend America abroad must have the chance to live their dreams at home - through education and their ability to make a good living; through affordable health care; and through a retirement that is dignified and secure. That is the promise that we must keep with all who serve.
It starts with those who choose to remain in uniform, as well as their families. My wife Michelle has net with military families in North Carolina, Kentucky and Virginia over the last several months. Every time, she passes on their stories - stories of lives filled with patriotism and purpose, but also stories of spouses struggling to pay the bills, kids dealing with an absent parent, and the unique burden of multiple deployments. The message that Michelle has heard is what you all know and have lived: when a loved one is deployed, the whole family goes to war.
The VFW has done an extraordinary job of standing by our military families - helping out with everything from a phone card for a soldier who is overseas, to an extra hand around the house. As President, I will stand with you. We need a Military Families Advisory Board to identify new ways to ease the burden. We need more official support for the volunteer networks that help military spouses get by. And we need to make sure that military pay does not lag behind the private sector, so that those who serve can raise their families and live the life they've earned.
For those who return to civilian life, I will support their American Dream in this 21st century just as we supported generations of veterans in the 20th. That starts with education. Everyone who serves this country should have the same opportunity that my grandfather had under the GI Bill. That's why, unlike my opponent, I was a strong and early supporter of Jim Webb's GI Bill for the 21st Century - a bill that Senator McCain called too generous. At a time when the skyrocketing cost of tuition is pricing thousands of Americans out of a college education, this bill provides every veteran with a real chance to afford a world-class college education. And that's what I'll continue to stand up for as President.
We must also stand up for affordable health care for every single veteran. That's why I've pledged to build a 21st century VA. We need to cut through the red tape - every service-member should get electronic copies of medical and service records upon discharge. We need to close shortfalls - it's time to fully fund VA health care, and to add more Vet Centers. We need to get rid of means-testing - every veteran should be allowed into the VA system. My opponent takes a different view. He wants to ration care so the VA only serves combat injuries, while everyone else gets an insurance card. While the VA needs some real reform to better serve those who have worn the uniform, privatization is just not the answer. We cannot risk our veterans' health care by turning the VA into just another health insurer. We need to make sure the VA is strong enough to treat every veteran who depends on it. That's what I'll do as President.
And we must expand and enhance our ability to identify and treat PTSD and Traumatic Brain Injury at all levels: from enlistment, to deployment, to civilian life. No one should suffer in silence, or slip through the cracks in the system. That's why I've passed measures to increase screening for these unseen wounds, and helped lead a bipartisan effort to stop the unfair practice of kicking out troops who suffer from them. This is something I've fought for in the Senate, and it's something that I'll make a priority as President.
Economic security for our veterans also depends on revamping an overburdened benefits system. I congratulate the VFW for what you've done to help veterans navigate a broken VBA bureaucracy. Now it's time for the government to do a better job. We need more workers, and a 21st century electronic system that is fully linked up to military records and the VA's health network. It's time to ensure that those who've served get the benefits that they've earned.
Just as we give veterans the support they deserve, we must also engage them and all Americans in a new cause: renewing America. I am running for President because I believe that there is no challenge too great for the American people to meet if they are called upon to come together. In America, each of us is free to seek our dreams, but we must also serve a common purpose, a higher purpose. No one embodies that commitment like a veteran.
Just think of the skills that our troops have developed through their service. They have not simply waged war in Afghanistan and Iraq - they have rebuilt infrastructure, supported new agriculture, trained police forces, and developed health care systems. For those leaving military service, it's time to apply those skills to our great national challenges here at home.
That means expanding programs like Troops-to-Teachers that put veterans at the front of the classroom. That means tapping the talent of engineers who've served as we make a substantial investment to rebuild our infrastructure and create millions of new jobs. That means dramatically expanding national service programs to give Americans of all ages, skills and stations the chance to give back to their communities and their country. I'll also enlist veterans in forging a new American energy economy. That's why I've proposed a Green Veterans initiative to give our veterans the training they need to succeed in the Green Jobs of the future - so that they put themselves on a pathway to a successful career, while ensuring that our national security is never held hostage to hostile nations.
This is how we can help our veterans live their dreams while helping our country meet the challenges of the 21st century. And this is what we have learned from so many generations of veterans, including those of you here today - that your contribution to the American story does not end when the uniform comes off. We need those who serve in our military to live their dreams - and to continue serving the cause of America - when the guns fall silent. That's what the VFW stands for, and if I have the honor of being your President, that's what my Administration will work for every single day. Because I believe that we have a sacred trust with those who serve in our military. That trust is simple: America will be there for you just as you have been there for America. It's a trust that begins at enlistment, and it never ends.
I thought of that trust last week when I visited the Pearl Harbor Memorial. I saw where the bombs fell on the USS Arizona, and where a war began that would reshape the world order while reshaping the lives of all who served in it - from our great generals and admirals, to the enlisted men like my grandfather. Then I visited his grave at the Punchbowl, the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific.
I still remember the day that we laid my grandfather to rest. In a cemetery lined with the graves of Americans who have sacrificed for our country, we heard the solemn notes of Taps and the crack of guns fired in salute; we watched as a folded flag was handed to my grandmother and my grandfather was laid to rest. It was a nation's final act of service and gratitude to Stanley Dunham - an America that stood by my grandfather when he took off the uniform, and never left his side.
This is what we owe our troops and our veterans. Because in every note of Taps and in every folded flag, we hear and see an unwavering belief in the idea of America. The idea that no matter where you come from, or what you look like, or who your parents are, this is a place where anything is possible; where anyone can make it; where we look out for each other, and take care of each other; where we rise and fall as one nation - as one people. It's an idea that's worth fighting for - an idea for which so many Americans have given that last full measure of devotion. Now it falls to us to advance that idea just as so many generations have before.



Why hasn't McCain responded yet?!?!?
August 19, 2008 9:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Six years ago, I stood up at a time when it was politically difficult to oppose going to war in Iraq, and argued that our first priority had to be finishing the fight against Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda in Afghanistan."
...WTF?...He stood up in his classroom?...Does he not realize thatopposing GWB in one of the most liberal districs in the country doesn't require much courage? This is why he's going to lose.
August 19, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am starting to question SFCWallace's patriotism...
August 19, 2008 10:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm starting to question his sanity. Where the hell did that comment come from?
August 19, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Don't know why it hooked up to your comment...it wasn't in response to you. Was just trying to post as a comment.
August 19, 2008 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ah. haha.
August 19, 2008 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Everyone here and across the liberal and neutral blogosphere needs to realize, McCain's campaign website call for trolls to attack our sites has begun to mature, and like any old rotting corpse they are destined to stink up the place, like Sarge has done here.
Expect many more of these neophyte neocon wannabe bloggers to post these disjointed "arguments" for us all to roll our eyes at.
Someone needs to keep a collection of these newly-minted trolls and their posts, they are so blatantly transparent, the biggest joke is that they think they are somehow fooling anyone.
But that is one of the hallmarks of the dunderheads and doofuses who accept McCain's challenge to go forth and blog, so far, without an exception that I can find, their arrogance is outweighed only by their ignorance.
August 19, 2008 11:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, are you playing "Casey Jones" or "Ripple"?
August 19, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
SMEAR, you mean. Not comment.
August 19, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Patriotism? What patriotism? I don't see any patriotism coming from SFCWallace. I just see bullcrap coming from SFCWallace, and not even good bullcrap. Not even Free Republic quality bullcrap. I don't know where this bullcrap is coming from, but it's pretty amateurish, if you ask me.
August 19, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Stirling,
how can you question his patriotism, can't you see his avatar?
August 19, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wallace's patriotism has been questionable for a long, long time.
August 19, 2008 12:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not by a credible source.
August 19, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ummmm, what?
August 19, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
So have you qualified for a "peek at Cindy's rack" on the Tucker Bounds total number of posts contest prize list yet?
Obama may lose Georgia, but he will win Ohio and the election.
August 19, 2008 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
I told you...I'm not really pro-McCain or anti-Obama...I'm anti-leftist and Obama is the current leftist out there trying to assume power.
August 19, 2008 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
How do you define "leftist"?
August 19, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
From each according to his means, to each according to his needs. That's the left side of the scale, the closer to that you are, the more of a "leftist" you are.
August 19, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Occasionally I am amused by your posts, but this lil' nugget has to reveal you to be one of the lamest jokers out there. By your definition, you would have stood opposed to our founding fathers and the principles on which our nation was founded (and for which you professed to fight if you are, in fact, a military man). They were the flaming liberals of their day, buddy. Go study some history. It would also stand you in direct opposition to Jesus Christ in his day. Another crazy leftist trying to buck the system. So maybe you might want to rethink your "anyone on the left end of the scale -- however defined -- is bad" theory. Cause it sucks. Bad.
August 19, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
The founders believed in personal freedom and personal liberty. Not an all powerfull centralized government that would confiscate your possesions and pass them to another that they felt was more worthy than you...you might want to check your history a bit.
August 19, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Glad we finally agree on something. Now could you please let Bush, Cheney, Addington, and Yoo know that?
August 19, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, all they've done is work to ensure your life, liberty and ability to persue happiness (unless you're a member of Al-Quiada that is).
August 19, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
First off, despite the avatar, not a dude.
Second off, there are plenty of non-al qaeda who have been treated to the Bush administration's version of "life, liberty, and the ability to persue happiness". That's what happens when you have a unitary executive with no oversight.
August 19, 2008 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
"...[T]o form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity...," and other cornball liberal sentiment.
August 19, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Y'all keep forgeting about this one though:
Tenth Amendment – The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.
August 19, 2008 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tell us how that Amendment has been interpreted by the Supreme Cout?
)))))))-crickets-))))))
Yet another righty myth exposed.
August 19, 2008 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another brave rationale for selfishness.
August 20, 2008 9:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
"The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common. . . . There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale, . . . and they were distributed to each according to need." Acts 4:32-35.
The closer you are to that, the more CHRISTIAN you are.
August 19, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
""The community of believers was of one heart and mind, and no one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they had everything in common. . . . There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale, . . . and they were distributed to each according to need." Acts 4:32-35.
The closer you are to that, the more CHRISTIAN you are."
True, if it is of your own free will. When that philosophy is forced upon you by a central government at gun point it's called communism.
August 19, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
SFCWallace, I bet you are unemployed and staying with your parents with little education. You don't seem to be knowledgable about the real important issues in this campaign. We will give you a pass. It is better that the uninformed don't vote at all. These are the people that voted for Bush two times.
August 19, 2008 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's cuz in your reality "Hope and Change" are real issues...
August 19, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
By "assume power" you mean "get elected", right.
Or did you mean the tried and true method of having the Supreme Court install him as President?
August 19, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again...the Supreme court didn't "install" GWB. They stopped the Fla court from usurping the Fla legislatures Constitutional power to appoint electors...actually. Your guy is a Constitutional scholar. One of y'all should email him and ask for an oppinion.
August 19, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
SFC Clown, let's not forget that "our guy" is a "constitutional scholar". You may find that admission being crammed down your throat in the near future.
Let's also not forget that your guy graduated in the bottom tenth of his USNA class and was unquestionably the beneficiary of the Navy's longstanding AA program for the sons (and now daughters, I'd hazard) of flag officers.
Let's also remember that your guy says, even today, that going into Iraq was the right thing to do, when the factual record proves beyond any doubt that the administration lied at almost every turn in order to start The War of Bush's Inadequate Self-Image.
Let's not forget that your guy continues to claim authorship of the surge even as it continues not to produce the reults intended.
Let's also not forget that your guy is now relying on the same scumbags that made a philanderer out of him, claiming he had an out-of-wedlock child, in 2000. Even you must confront that fact with some squirming.
Enjoy what air you can get while it lasts.
August 19, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Booya!
August 19, 2008 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Standing up against the war was the right thing to do. Barack did it where he happened to be at the time.
The point is that he knew giving W a blank check to invade Iraq was a horrible mistake (just as many of us did) and he stood up and said so.
Turns out he was right.
August 19, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
SFCWallace, don't bet on it.
August 19, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Duhhh. He was running for the US Senate which is you know, kinda like statewide.
August 19, 2008 11:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
He was running for the senate seat from illinois. I wouldn't call the whole state of illinois a liberal bastion. Come on sfc, you're better than that.
August 19, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was there actually...I even voted for a black guy then (I know, y'all didn't think Republicans did that).
August 19, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
okay. now wallace is certifiable. you cannot argue with the crazy people demographic that actually voted for Alan Keyes.
didn't alan keyes screwer James Dobson for supporting McCain, due to McCain's flip-flopping on society controling women's wombs?
August 19, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I actually would support Alan Keyes over McCain...I don't have that choice (not realisticly, I know he's the nominee of the "America's Independent Party" but I'm not a "Nader voter")though.
August 19, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
no shortage of f***wits in the military..
August 19, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Having served in the Corps for five years, I can get behind this statement.
August 19, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chicago, LIBERAL? You must be joking. Considering that I've lived here for 12 years, after spending the previous 35 in the SF Bay Area, I know what's liberal and what's not.
Yes, Chicago votes heavily Democratic, but it's headed by Emperor Daley. My first 6-1/2 years in Chicago were spent in Daley's home 'hood - Bridgeport. (Rent was dirt-cheap at the time.) Nearly all my neighbors were registered Democrats but they also were anti-choice, pro-military/Iraq, and anti-black. Asians and Hispanics were tolerated in the neighborhood - which has since been far more integrated, racially and economically. African-Americans, though, are still unwelcome. A few months after I moved in, a 13-year-old black kid was nearly beaten to death around the corner. Why? He had the temerity to ride his bike at night through the neighborhood.
Trust me, the Iraq war was very popular in many Chicago neighborhoods.
August 19, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Six years ago ANYONE speaking out in opposition to the war was pretty much squelched. What fucking rock were you hiding under?
August 19, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe he's in the cone of silence.
August 19, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is very very good.
I only don't like this one sentence: "And no matter how heated it gets or what kind of campaign he chooses to run, I will honor Senator McCain's service, just like I honor the service of every veteran in this room, and every American who has worn the uniform of the United States."
It's repetitive and unnecessary and if he must, it could be phrased with the same impact like the rest of the speech. Apart from this - finally!
August 19, 2008 9:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
To be honest, I agree with you there, Lalo. My one issue with finding fault in that statement is that he's talking to a room full of veterans. It is unnecessary, but maybe in context it's really not so bad.
August 19, 2008 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama still doesn't get it. He says "I will let no one question my patriotism" but that's exactly what he's doing! He keeps telling us "I won't be swiftboated; I will hit back" all the while he's being swiftboating and he's not hitting back!
He needs to stop promising to stand up and just freaking stand up already! He needs to stop saying "I won't let my patriotism be questioned" and call McCain out for doing just that. "John McCain has crossed a line. He he has essentially accused me treason and not caring about the welfare of this country. If he doesn't have the integrity to retract that statement and apologize, he doesn't have the integrity to be president."
August 19, 2008 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree.
I think he's putting the most important message into a soundbite at the beginning of the speech: "I believe American people are better than that".
He's also making some good points about McCain character attack.
And while I haven't seen the video, only read the test here, I wonder if I'd think he looked hurt and bitter or firm and determined.
And clearly I don't think this one speech is going to cut it. But as of this morning, it's good start and the right direction.
August 19, 2008 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
"I believe American people are better than that".
They may be better than that, but don't assume the American people are smarter than that.
The reason McStain's people are running the campaign they are is because it works, and they've seen it work.
I'm just hoping that Obama is playing a really, really good game of poker right now, and that we'll see him play his hand(s) right after the convention and all throughout the fall.
PEACE
August 19, 2008 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're absolutely right... this is the John Kerry / Michael Dukakis playbook... Don't say "I won't let anyone question my patriotism!!" (I'm too lazy to find a youtube of Kerry saying something like this, but I'm sure he did). Go out and hit back against the other guy. Question his patriotism, his judgment, his sanity, etc.
I cannot believe we're losing the message game again!!!
August 19, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
As I posted downthread earlier, you can look at this as the end-all response to McCain's nasty campaign.
Or you can look at it as a marker. This is the first time Obama has come out and said this.
This is a line in the sand.
Haven't we watched this guy long enough to realize he'll start putting the wood to McCain when the time is right, and not a moment before?
I swear, it's as if everyone's forgotten that he took down a supposedly 'unbeatable, inevitable' political machine in the primaries - and did it on his own schedule.
Note to hand-wringers: Barack Obama is smarter than you. That is why he's running for president and you're not.
August 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I really hope you and others just cut that sh*t out. I am concerned. I have a right to be concerned. We all should be concerned. I work too hard for these causes to NOT be concerned. Frankly it seems as though many people like you who "aren't concerned" are so confident in the ground game and GOTV that you think all's well. Well, I don't think that is good enough. Barack NEEDS to be much more forceful in his attacks on McCain, his character, his policies, his LIES.
If Barack isn't above the MOE in a majority of the top 4-6 swing states you can be DAMN sure that whatever incredible groundgame the Obama camp has developed and whatever the GOTV tactics are employed, voters will run headlong into unprecedented GOP suppression tactics and disenfranchisement tactics. We know it. So why not pre-empt it with stronger rhetoric to pull more people in to the election (as opposed to turning people off with wonky policy speeches).
He needs to cut the BS and come out ON OFFENSE against McCain. Hard.
And I'm sick of people like you busting on people like me who are rightly concerned. I hope people are concerned and I hope we make our concerns known to the campaign so something is done about it.
August 19, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, be as concerned as you want. I'm not stopping you, nor would I attempt to.
I just get pretty sick of this whole thing being played over and over again, day in, day out. Here's the template:
1. McCain says something.
2. People demand that Obama respond this very minute or demand that he attack harder.
3. Obama responds. 9 times out of ten, the 'concerned' folks don't think it's good enough.
4. Lather, rinse, repeat. Every goddamn day.
Somebody here made an observation yesterday that was a good one - campaigns do not run on internet time. They run on TV/dead tree news cycle time.
Hell, McCain made a crack about Obama's patriotism yesterday, and people were dogging Obama for not responding even while McCain was still speaking
It ain't gonna happen. Why people expect Obama to respond within nanoseconds to every single thing McCain says is not only tiresome, it's pretty dumb.
I'm just not into all the drama. If you prefer to set your teeth on edge ten times a day, that's your choice.
But Obama took down the Clintons, and the same shit was being said here every day then, too.
August 19, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hiya Stranger! Try this analogy:
You come across a street fight.
There are people flashing money on the side, betting on the fracas (uncivilized bastards!).
One guy is stomping the crap out of the other guy. The other guy is not doing any damage to Guy #1. Unless he comes back around and somehow manages to crack Guy #1's skull open, it's pretty clear to all involved that Guy #2 is likely gonna die.
He lifts his head and goes:
"I will not be subject to this beating!"
Who ya gonna bet on?
(Please tell me I don't need to be this graphic with you, again :-)
August 19, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, Barry! Long time no see...
I know what you're saying, but it's not entirely applicable. Let me take a try...
the one guy in the street fight keeps lunging at the other guy, swinging wildly, connecting once in a while, missing almost as often. The other guy keeps moving just out of reach, conserving his energy and letting the other guy punch himself out.
Bystanders look on, wondering why the other guy isn't swinging back, starting to think he's not much of a fighter.
This goes on for a while, people start yelling for the other guy to swing back, the lunging guy keeps lunging and swinging, nearly to the point of exhaustion.
Then the guy who's been moving steps in, rears back, and boom - takes advantage of the the lunging guy's exhaustion and lays him flat with one punch.
Economy of motion. Conservation of resources. And at the right time, a swift, leveling attack.
It's not that O is not fighting. He's just fighting like Cain while McCain is fighting like Gerry Cooney.
August 19, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
HEY!!! YOU can't rewrite my analogy!! :-)
Here's the part you left out:
By the time the guy underneath has "conserved his energy", he realizes, too late, that he has sustained too much damage to do whatever he planned on doing in your "rop-a-dope" strategy, he's dead, and all the bystanders have paid off the ones who betted on Guy #1, and gone home.
HA.
(I'm learning Logic 101 from my Significant Other, who has never lost an argument. In her own mind, she hasn't.)
August 19, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kudos to your SO - mine has the same record re: arguments. :)
I think where we differ is that I don't believe that McCain has come close to damaging Obama to the extent that he's 'dead.'
To the contrary - McCain has not been able to rise above his 'ceiling of' 44-46% in all the polls I've seen, save one that pegged him at 50% a week or so ago. I'm tossing that out because it's an outlier.
If McCain is swinging chairs and bottles at Obama (and outspending Obama in a lot of states, and has the corporate media spinning for him 24/7) and not making significant gains, it'll be hard to convince me that he's doing significant damage.
Or to paraphrase any one of 20 shrieking heads - 'Why can't McCain close the deal?'
August 19, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, but our pals in the MSM are not asking that OF MCCAIN. Guess who needs to "close the deal", as far as they're concerned? See Frank Rich, last Sunday.
In case you've nevah heard my take on this, I shall un-deprive you:
All the Rovian attacks are simply meant to make enough voters who are genuinely stup-- er, UNDECIDED, get disgusted and stay home. The Democrat (and this could be any Presidential race, from here to eternity; this isn't about Obama specifically) then moves to within enough points to PLAUSIBLY suggest, in the event of a subsequent Republican "win", that he actually "lost", after the GOP suppresses, cages and steals the vote again.
And you do know what the MSM's take on that will be? "Obama just couldn't close the deal!" and "America was just not ready for a Black/liberal/Democratic President!"
The most extreme heinousness is gonna come AFTER the Dem is defeated, when the pundits join hands and helpfully explain to America WHY the guy they really voted for, lost. AGAIN.
August 19, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Executive summary:
"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."
LK
August 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll go with that one. Thanks.
August 19, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. It is weak and defensive, and it is playing along to McCain's tune. "It's time that we all agree that I am not a traitor." It's a Kerry moment. Too late in August for comfort.
August 20, 2008 1:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
I believe the point of his constant praise of McCain's honorable service is to set up a rhetorical point of contrast to McCain's manifestly dishonorable behavior.
It doesn't strike me as being an overly subtle rhetorical device, unless you think the funeral oration Shakespere wrote for Antony in "Julius Caesar" was subtle.
August 19, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is letting McCain get under his skin and it shows in his face today. I watched the Speech live and he seems unhappy.
August 19, 2008 9:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, he should be unhappy. He's at his lowest in the electoral college projections today. That's what happens when you don't aggressively work to define McCain throughout the summer. That's what happens when your media team thinks that people start paying attention in the fall, when they ACTUALLY start paying attention to the definition of candidates during the summer. Hello, there's nothing else on TV but politics!
August 19, 2008 9:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama needs to grow up and confront McCain directly. He has been playing defense for the last two weeks. The media is not going to do this for him. I still think he needs to hire some of the Clinton's media folks.
August 19, 2008 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
What, you mean like in a "take it outside" rumble?
Seriously?
What do people want from Obama? He addressed McCain's despicable and unacceptable attacks directly and forcefully without sinking to McCain's level. But some of you folks seem to think he should holler "Eff you and the horse you rode in on, McCain!" Sheesh.
I guess people always need something to bitch about, and there are plenty of armchair quaterbacks to fill that role in this campaign.
August 19, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Right, and then when Obama responds, it becomes "he's gotta stop playing defense and go on offense."
Sheesh!
August 19, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, only politics. No major sporting event dominating the headlines...no, sir. People are focused on the election, nothing else.
August 19, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gbenga,
Lol...He looks unhappy because during a town hall event yesterday, he briefly mentioned he caught a cold from one of his children. That said, Barack has millions of dollars he can use to define McCain now until November, there is nothing is stopping him from doing so.
August 19, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm as big a worry-wort as they come, but the guy has a bad cold, that might have something to do with his unhappiness.
http://strategy08.wordpress.com
August 19, 2008 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
And a cold caught from from your kids is four times as irritating as one picked up from a co-worker.
August 19, 2008 11:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think that depends on what you were doing with your co-worker...
August 19, 2008 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
why is it that every time Obama defends charges made by the other side, that he has to get demeaned for it. In a campaign you have to stand up for yourself, its not about letting other people get under his skin, its about addressing these charges.
DNC Ad Hit McCain 4 $5million Blunder
August 19, 2008 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
I missed the speech. How was it received by the VFW folks?
August 19, 2008 11:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
beamreach,
the VFW will back McCain, they're the same people who fawn all over Bush at the same time he's shafting them.
August 19, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the reason that I love Sen. Obama is because he is the very essence of a teacher: he just scolded McTraitor beautifully, all the while the lines between his words exhorting the audience to really not fall for the same stupidities of campaigns past.
I love it also because he is doing on a national level what I do at the beginning of every semester in my classes: ask students to pay attention and focus on the task at hand, and ignore distractions!
I was coming to this point before, but today it has become crystallized for me: this is the only way to win, no other win would be sufficient. If he wins, it will be an amazingly beautiful thing for us as a nation...
[Cut and pasted from my DKos comment! For those who feel McTraitor is not right, I will stop calling him that, when he stops saying Sen. Obama puts "his ambitions before his country".]
August 19, 2008 9:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
No! No! No! This weakass shit gotta stop. O-man, stop telling us how it should be and deal with what is. McCain is running the campaign that Bush ran against him in 2000: low-down nasty & dirty. Obama has to attack attack attack, not talk talk talk. Here is what Team Obama should do: Sit down with a pad and a pen and make a list of everything negative about McCain and his campaign and then begin drilling (yuk yuk) him every single day, every hour, until the attacks draw blood. And they will, but only after the DumbAss MSM is properly conditioned through Feedings anf Beatings. Above all else, make sure that every American "knows" that McCain is McBush. Once that sticks, Obama wins going away (even if he is black).
August 19, 2008 10:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
wbgonne,
I agree 100%. There are many Obama supporters including me, who are growing increasingly frustrated with the dry attacks and counterattacks from the Obama campaign. We are pouring mass amounts of campaign donations into the Obama campaign like freakin' ATM's--i want results. I'm fed up with the lame a$$ response from the Obama people.
August 19, 2008 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
So tell me, political campaigns have you two managed and how many of those races did you win?
August 19, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please find a different candidate to vote for. I am sure someone out there caters to your desire for old politics.
August 19, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you want to get the message out there that McCain = Bush (which is, I might add, the official campaign message, as I learned at a campaign training session), then make some calls or knock on some doors and talk to undecided voters.
Don't just sit around and bitch about what the campaign is not doing--you are the one you've been waiting for, so get off your butt!
August 19, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is something to be said for righteous anger -- what McTraitor is doing is shameful in the extreme, calling him out must be done as seriously as McTraitor himself is juvenile (kind of like "getting out of Iraq as carefully as we were careless getting in").
McTraitor and his enablers on the right (the Limbaugh-Drudge-Rove axis) have pushed this meme too far into the psyche of Americans for Dems to be able to handle it with a light touch -- it has to be confronted as forthrightly as Sen. Obama has been doing for a while now.
Believe me, his bottom line in the convention is going to be the tag line "not this time". He is systematically laying a predicate for that admonition to the nation at the convention...
August 19, 2008 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
He still need to hit McCain on the head. Perhaps, he should let General Clark loose for a minute.
August 19, 2008 10:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
lol...i agree or Sen. Jim Webb.
August 19, 2008 10:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Only to have Bob Schieffer react as though General Clark grew horns from his head and started chewing the heads off kittens. I agree 100% with what Clark said but we can't afford to have the media spend another week talking about Clark v. the Super War Hero POW. (as they conveniently forget, of course, that Clark is also a war hero and a military man with years of actual executive experience, unlike McCain) There's a reason we haven't really seen Clark since that incident. The Obama campaign could trot General Clark out to talk about the price of milk in Oregon and the media and the GOP would pounce on the opportunity to talk about how Clark dissed McCain's service to his country...and they'll spend a week on that topic, ignoring everything Obama might be saying about the economy, foreign policy, etc., and ignorning the countless McCain gaffes that will almost certainly occur during that time.
The Obama camp has yet to display any concern or worry about the state of the race. I think - hope - that they know exactly what they are doing. I've learned that being a nervous nelly just doesn't help or make me feel better. Don't get me wrong, I'm still nervous...nervous as hell. But I'm going to put my trust in the Obama campaign - I really think they know what they are doing, certainly better than any of us.
August 19, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
wish he'd talked more about mccain's horrible record when it comes to supporting the troops. it's one of the biggest myths out there about mccain, and it's about time the obama camp poked a hole in that balloon.
August 19, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Again... too weak! Come on! The man suggests over and over that you are not patriotic, that you may even be a traitor! And this is all you got?
If you're not going to do it, then please oh please let General Clark loose!
August 19, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
That worked well last time. Great idea!
Not.
August 19, 2008 11:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Huh! I thought I posted this in response to Gbenga at 9:52 am. At least, that is what I intended (in case this post goofs up as well, this post is in reference to my post at 10:01 am).
August 19, 2008 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain was one the worst record in congress when it comes to womens and veterans issues. The Obama team should have surrogates on the TV and conference call McShame out.
August 19, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain has one the worst records in congress when it comes to womens and veterans issues. The Obama team should have surrogates on the TV and conference call McShame out.
August 19, 2008 10:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
People Chill Out, you guys are going to have a heart attack over nothing. Um, why would you show your hand before the game has even started. And for the love of God that saddleback thing was not a debate, and if someone can tell me how in the hell you can say McCain won when he is saying drill now drill here in a church. Did we not forget, Obama defeated HILLARY CLINTON. Puhlease,people.
August 19, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
If you haven't seen this one live, this speech is a must see. And I don't want to read anymore about how he's got to get tough with McCain. He bitch slaps him regulary. It just does not get covered in the same manner!
August 19, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
The big question here, and the central point of debate among TPMers, is:
Does the highroad OBama is taking get him anywhere? Will it work?
Or will he need to attack hard and go negative. Cynics say that negative attacks do work.
Is there any evidence, beyond opinionating, that showing the voters yoru decency gets you anywhere? Or does negative campaigning always work?
I'd like to know the answer.
August 19, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I ran into an article on HuffPo about negative ads. The contention is that their purpose is to suppress voter turnout.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonathan-neil-schneider/the-truth-about-negative_b_118560.html
Hope the link works!
August 19, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course it is. Suppressing voter turnout is a basic tactic of the Republican Party. Has been since 1980.
August 19, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
What will McCain say if asked directly? "I never suggested any such thing? Why does Obama always have to make it about himself? If he put American first, he wouldn't be so concerned about his celebrity status." Yes, and he would get away with it, just like he gets away with every spray of spittle he blows out over the airwaves. Meanwhile, Obama retorts to McCain's traitor insinuations with a polite and tepid call to civility laced with generous reaffirmations of McCain's American hero image. Why keep repeating that? I admire Obama's appeal to our better angels in much the same way that I admire a Quaker's appeal to peace when someone hawks a lunger in his face. The only difference is that a consistent Quaker would no more find himself in politics than he would find himself on a battlefield. I'm exaggerating slightly, but you get the idea.
August 19, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Bitch slap theory at work.
This is NOT the hard-hitting Obama we've been waiting for. This is "please don't hurt me."
Get it through your skull, Barack: ATTACK. JOHN. MCCAIN.
August 19, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama still can't bring himself to nail this guy. FFS ATTACK THIS SOB AND HIS SCUMBAG CAMPAIGN!!!
August 19, 2008 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here's how Obama could have put it:
"No one who would call you a traitor just because you disagree on the war is worthy of being president of the United States. It has dark implications for the future of our country -- for the quality of our political discourse, for the freedom of our speech, for the development of a reasoned, balanced foreign policy. It looks like McCain administration wouldn't be a third Bush term after all. It would be Bush on steroids."
August 19, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hurrah!!!!
August 19, 2008 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/19/bipartisan-praise-from-bill-clinton/
With friends like these....
"But Mr. Clinton also lauded Mr. Obama’s rival, Senator John McCain, and said that either candidate would be progressive on the issue of climate change.
“Obviously, I favor Senator Obama’s energy positions, and Democrats have been by and large the more forward-leaning actors,” Mr. Clinton said. “But John McCain has the best record of any Republican running for president on the energy issue and on climate change.” He added, “I’m very encouraged about where the presidential rhetoric is in this campaign.”"
--------------------------------------------------
WTF? Thanks a lot Bill. He and his wife want half the convention devoted to them and then he goes and stabs Obama in the back like this.
August 19, 2008 10:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Huh?
What an idiot
August 19, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good ole Bill, the shithead. With friends like these.
August 19, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a pussy.
What does Obama plan to do after McCain uses the same line in his next speech? And the one after that? And the one after that?
Frankly I think the narrative McCain paints of Obama putting political ambition before country is gold. It's one of the many things helping to destroy Obama. It WORKS and there's very little if any backlash so why would McCain stop? Cause you asked him nicely? LOL.
Obama not only predicted the surge would fail (as did I so I can't fault him for that), he said if he had the chance to go back he STILL wouldn't support Petreaus and the surge. That doesn't make any gotdamn sense!! McCain, who risked losing by a 20 point landslide had the surge been the tremendous failure we predicted, has every right to continue beating Obama over the head for his naïveté.
August 19, 2008 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
"My father served" therefore I'm a patriot just doesn't cut it.
August 19, 2008 10:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Johnny2bad,
My third cousin once thought about joining the Marines, so DON'T CALL ME UNPATRIOTIC!
August 19, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think he needs to go negative. There is SO much to attack that is not negative, simply true.
What he does need to do is take away McPain's corner on the I-am-the-real-American-just-like-you market share and re-brand himself as a product of the MELTING POT and the AMERICAN DREAM, which in many ways he is, i.e. he is the real American.
How does he do this? I don't know. He has tried to TELL us in various ways (his books) but I think he needs to show us.
I mean, did you see the body surfing pix? It's like Apollo riding in mythic waves - Botticelli would be inspired.
But probably not the average Dick and Jane from Ohio.
August 19, 2008 10:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Y'all are looking at this as The Response.
I'm seeing it as The Warning.
Remember, we still have a week before the General kicks off.
This is a marker.
August 19, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well put.
August 19, 2008 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. This is the clam before the storm...
August 19, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry, but your typo made me laugh out loud.
August 19, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah. I'm sorry. Is the calm before the storm.
Yes, it is funny. At least some here still have a sense of humor.
August 19, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like it!
Very John Lennon-esque.
We could all use a good laugh in here once in a while.
August 19, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know it was a typo and as such, unintended but I found 'The clam before the storm..." dead funny.
August 19, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
That movie script will write itself...
It can work as a Pixar move.
August 19, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I see on this board is lots of egotism from the posters. If only Obama would listen to me, me, me, ME, ME, Me! I honestly think you don't pay much attention to what Obama and his team are ACTUALLY doing.
You won't find it covered much in the media-they are thoroughly immersed in their obsession of the Veep-stakes. But if you watch the events live (CNN live covers them) you will find considerable toughening up in his rhetoric starting Sunday in Reno.
In the second event in Albuquerque, he was blazing. He is right to approach this through the economic picture.
At the VFW event he may have seemed somewhat subdued, but he minced no words. The subdued stance may be out of respect for his audience and he is fighting a cold--did some snuffling in Albuquerque.(Not as much national exposure but one of the local TV station carried it live.) But he was very clear and called McCain down, but to an audience that may emotionally bond to his opponent because of his war service.
I'm inclined to think that the Obama team mapped out the whole election back before he decided to run. This is a very smart team and you need to have a little more faith in them.
August 19, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Where are the surrogates? Obama can't be out there kicking McCain in his gnarly sack and gouging out his eyes--that's the job of surrogates. I don't see any real effort to define McCain, just the typical haphazard respond-when-attacked stuff.
It's time to hit McCain and hit him hard, where it will hurt. The Keating Five, the 1st wife and family left behind, the land deals, any and everything that calls into question his integrity and maverickyness. "Honor" his service? Yes, Obama can, but the surrogates have to then go forth and drag that shit through the mud.
August 19, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
Look at dudeabides880's post above. With surrogates like Bill, Obama doesn't need McCain to lose this election. This is primaries all over again when seniors kept mum when Hillary adapted kitchen-sink strategy. Fucking dem party.
August 19, 2008 11:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Once again Obama is way to kind to McCain who does not deserve any respect. Knock Mccain's jaw loose with each and every speech and town hall meeting. By showering McCain with all these kinds words it just plays into the myth that he is a good guy. Show how Mccain has no honor and character
August 19, 2008 10:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
Y'all don't get it. You accuse McDumbass of resorting to whatever dirty trick he has to to garner support but in the same breath excoriate Obama for _NOT_ wallowing in the same shit! The high road is is the just road and will be rewarded with a victory in the general. Obama is sticking to his guns WRT mud slinging and he's going to reap the rewards in November. All the sanctimonious jaw flapping about how he's letting McDipshit steamroll him is wasted breath. Obama is a man of higher principle. Trust him and his campaign. He's on the path of the rightious.
August 19, 2008 10:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Higher road," "higher principle," LMAO.
Those will all be noted when Frank Rich writes his post-election editorial praising Senator Obama for losing with dignity.
August 19, 2008 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
People have to be reminded of the real McCain: the scumbag who offered his wife to the topless contest in Sturgis and has called her a trollop and a cunt in public, the scumbag who left his injured wife and 3 kids for said rich blonde, the scumbag who thinks singing "bomb bomb Iran" is a foreign policy, the scumbag who slow-walked the Abramoff investigation and refuses to release most of the evidence to the public, etc., etc.
We don't have to make anything up with McCain, we just have to let his words and deeds speak for themselves. The Myth needs to be punctured by a little truth. Time to unleash the Truth Squad!
August 19, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fellow POW tears McCain a new one.
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html
It has a very borderline sour grapes feel to it.
August 19, 2008 10:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sounds like a Swifboat wannabe
August 19, 2008 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know...I think Obama's responding just about right. Listen, we need to face reality. The reason you'll likely never see McCain's approval rating dip below 50% or his disapproval rise above 40% is because he's a war hero. Nothing is going to change that reality. And people respect his military service and honor the sacrifices he made while spending 5+ years as a POW. Obama has to be very, very, very careful about going after McCain too strongly for being soft on veterans' issues, even if that's the reality. (he did note McCain's opposition to the Webb amendment) He has to be very careful about getting too personal with his attacks on McCain. He has to accentuate the positive - ie, Americans expect better and McCain can do better - while continuing to reiterate his respect for McCain's service to his country at the same time he points out McCain inconsistencies and personal attacks.
Now, just because people respect McCain and even though his approval/disapproval gap will likely always remain wide, in favor of the approvals, that doesn't mean they necessarily want him as president. But if the young, inexperienced guy they are thinking about voting for starts to get nasty towards the old, POW, war hero, they may no longer consider Obama. It's a shitty situation but here we are.
August 19, 2008 10:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just for my own edification, exactly what did McCain do during the Vietnam War that was so heroic? Is every POW automaticly considered a war hero. Fine with me if that's the case, but it does seems a pretty loose definition.
August 19, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
He got shot down, got the shit beat out of him, was held captive for 5+ years, and refused release when they offered it to him. We can pick apart each one of these things and come to the conclusion that this makes him no more heroic than any other POW or Purple Hearters like Wes Clark or Jim Webb or John Kerry, but the narrative was set a long time ago and it's repeated over and over again by the media and just about everybody else - McCain is not just a POW war hero, he is THE POW war hero. Doesn't make him qualified to be president, doesn't make many people even want him to be president, but his "hero" status is unassailable.
August 19, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
What an idiot. You are following the McCain game plan to the letter. Yes, being a POW is great, but the Veteran's organizations hate him because of his stance on their issues. You do not need to attack him. You use his own words to form the ad you get a couple of veterans to speak - Vote Vets for example. You disgust me and make me physically sick. Some fighter, you rule out the entire policy areas. No wonder why wussies like you cause our defeat.
August 19, 2008 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, I'm a realist, not a wussy. I know there are many veterans who don't like McCain. Vote Vets and other non-affiliated groups can go there but Obama himself can no further than he's already gone. Again, we saw what happened when General Clark - who is a) not Obama and b) not officially part of the Obama campaign - went there. For a full freaking week, it was all the media could talk about. Time is short, we can't have another week wasted on the media debating about whether or not Obama questioned McCain war hero-ness and patriotism and devotion to the troops. That's what they'll do and the McCain campaign will make sure that's what they do (heck, they threw out the POW stuff in response to charges that he may have heard Obama's responses to Warren's questions)...and ain't nothing going to change that in the course of the next 2-3 months.
Obama went about as far as he can go on the topic that has you so fired up in his speech above when he said this:
"That's why, unlike my opponent, I was a strong and early supporter of Jim Webb's GI Bill for the 21st Century - a bill that Senator McCain called too generous. At a time when the skyrocketing cost of tuition is pricing thousands of Americans out of a college education, this bill provides every veteran with a real chance to afford a world-class college education. And that's what I'll continue to stand up for as President."
Perfect. Let Vote Vets and other surrogates - preferably military veterans - take care of the nastier stuff.
And how do "wussies" like me cause our defeat? I'm just a freaking commenter on a blog. Get a grip, pal, and calm down. Based on your passionate response, I can only assume we're on the same side.
August 19, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, you're right.
August 19, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
John McCain is out there saying Barack Obama won't protect his own family let alone the country and Obama responds by praising his service.
Is there anything worse you can say to a man than "You don't care about the safety of your wife and children?" I don't know about y'all but that's grounds for murder where I come from.
August 19, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
So, to recap, Michael Hussein's political advice for Obama:
1. Pick Hillary as VP.
2. Murder McCain.
August 19, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
LOL.
August 19, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
LOL. Damn skippy, hyper. Damn skippy.
August 19, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
That is so dead on.
August 19, 2008 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain has impugned Barack's patriotism. The correct response is not to impugn McCain's patriotism, rather to point out that McCain's attack on Barack's patriotism is inaccurate and unfair. Obama doesn't imitate the smear, he deflects it. Rightly so.
This is a great speech that will resonate very well with most veterans. The close is particularly powerful.
August 19, 2008 11:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
My point exactly. Michael Hussein would have Obama playing in the mud with McShithead. What good would that do? Then we'd have to start attacking Obama for being a cowardly spitefull yapping dog of a candidate just like McDumbass. I like Obama responding with parental poise. It contrasts nicely with McBush's snarly snarky cane-shaking get-off-my-lawn'ishness.
August 19, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Nice.
August 19, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good luck!
Rove is scheming a response at this moment. It would go something like this:
"I have never questioned Senator Obama's patriotism. I question his lack of experience and judgment. My friends, we have serious enemies in this world. We can not be naive about this fact. We need someone who can lead in these dangerous times...etc."
August 19, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, that's how they will respond. Will the MSM press further? With gelded GOP-hack clowns like Jake Tapper and Ben Smith, I don't think so.
August 19, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
observer2 says:
You can add David Gregory and David Schuster to that list
August 19, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess saying someone would deliberately lose a war for political gain is not impugning his patriotism.
August 19, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let me try this again:
Is there any evidence, beyond opinionating, that negative campaigning always works? Could it backfire? How could the MSM spin it against Obama?
August 19, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
"How could the MSM spin it against Obama?"
I don't know exactly how they'd spin it but I know how they'd react...
"Hold on a minute there, young man! I may share your beliefs more than those of McCain but John McCain is a war hero and he likes me - I know because he let's me sit next to him on the bus and invites me to his barbecues. You better tread carefully, son."
In that context, Obama's speech above is just fine.
August 19, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually yes, a number of studies have been done as the impact, memorability and impact of negative ads are. The results are fairly depressing:
1. Such ads are arresting, i.e. they grab your attention drowning out other messages.
2. The subject matter of negative ads tend to be remembered for a longer period of time than does the source of the informat.
3. Over time, people forget the source of the negative information and tend to then remember the negative information as a trait or characteristic of the candidate targeted.
August 19, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain will never acknowledge that Obama is his patriotic equal. No way. No how. If he does his campaign is over. What's he going to do? Brag about the republican achievements of the last eight years? This is a great strategy from Obama. It looks like check and mate to me.
August 19, 2008 11:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Anti-leftists?
I buy that.
But if it's the big-government aspect that you don't like, I would suggest that McCain sounds a lot like Bush in this respect.
He promises to fund this and fund that, while not acknowledging that funding requires spending. In other words, he's promising more debt for the US which is, at the end of the day more debt for you, and more taxes for you.
Through on top of that, the various wars that McCain is promising to start and within the next four years we'll see a US that looks a lot like post-soviet Russia without the petroleum reserves.
I understand the anti-leftist, but some simple math and the less-evil becomes obvious.
August 19, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
It is not enough to say to other people that he will not allow his patriotism to be questioned. (He has already "allowed" it - the question is, will he fight back?)
He needs to speak directly to John McCain. Challenge him to come on Larry King and tell him to his face that he would rather lose a war to win a campaign.
If McCain has not apologized by the time they debate, Obama needs to stop the debate and challenge McCain directly.
This is a golden opportunity for Obama to define himself. McCain is a bully. Bullies need to be confronted directly.
August 19, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can see a debate moment just like that. Much akin to when Hillary was pressed about Obama's ability to win and she finally gave up and shouted, "yes! yes! yes!"
August 19, 2008 11:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please don't type Hillary Clinton and shouted, "yes! yes! yes!" this early in the morning. It's going to take all day to get rid of that visual!
August 19, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
speaking as a Vietnam Vet. I found Obamas speech intelligent as well as thought provoking. As a member of the VFW I as well as many other vets support Senator Obamas run for the WH. He was correct about Iraq from the start. He has proven to be a big supporter of Vet.s Whereas McCain has not. McCain is reckless, hot tempered and is not to be trusted.
I can honestly say as a Veteran, who saw the fighting from the ground, McCain is not qualified to be this countries president.
What people do not or fail to recognize, is that John made a few films for the V.C. that were anti-American. He is up there with Jane Fonda.
So lets talk truth...
August 19, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
I didn't hear the whole speech but I hope Obama took the time to outline McCain's voting record when it comes to veterans affairs.
August 19, 2008 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
I despair for my party and this nation. I despair because the Democrat party is once again proving to be the party of pansies and girlie men. It is more and, very regrettably, more apparent that the Democrat party actually is a party of elitists who are out of touch with the mainstream of our society and that we will once again lose the opportunity to save this country from a plutocratic Republican party.
I want to go into depth but it would take far too long. Look, you are dealing with low information voters who will respond to TV stories, TV ads and fliers. Speeches to the VFW and such will not hack it, will not and I repeat it This is where we are elitists, the vast majority do not listen to political speeches, read the blogs, magazines or newspapers. The pick it up on television. Until the Democrat party learns this lesson, they will truly be out of touch.
There is only one Republican strategy and that has been to destroy the Democrat party. They do this first and foremost by painting the Democrat party as the party of sissies. What better way to prove that whoever is nominated is a little wuss who would be far worse than the incompetent fool nominated by the Republicans. The Democrat party obliges just as Obama is now by allowing the bully to kick sand in his face while saying - "please do not do that sir. It is not nice. I really respect you and am asking you very, very nicely to stop kicking sand in my face."
August 19, 2008 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fail.
August 19, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ditto. The rethugs must know by now that misuing the party name is a dead giveaway, but they just can't resist.
August 19, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Democratic party - The only ones who call it the "Democrat" party are Republicans.
August 19, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even if forceful (direct) attacks by Obama weren't off the table, they would be a bad move. To successfully create a negative impression of your opponent you need explicit or implicit media buy-in. That is not going to happen. McCain is considerably more protected by the press than Bush was in 2000 and 2004.
Senator Obama is a remarkably canny politician and his eyes are wide open. He also has more information than we do. It's not as if he hasn't considered all his options to choose his best course.
August 19, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well war is good for the news agencies. Gives them great ratings.
August 19, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
You get media buy in by making it a story. You coordinate and keep punching with your message.
I watched a bit of meet the press. Our man was defensive on Obama and advice from Democrats on whether he needed to be more specific on policies. The Republican rep was asked if McCain was attacking Bush policies. For three minutes, I heard every attack point against Obama: Obama was going to raise taxes, Obama would not acknowledge the success of the surge, Obama was a celebrity, Obama does not have experience. The moderator asked the Repug to answer the question that had been asked (a softball to begin with) and the Repug went on how McCain was a Maverick and how he would stand up against the party for the right thing.
No, you make ads that will be remembered and negative. Why should that be off the table? Attack McCain as the liar that he is (as shown in his position on the GI Bill - make the ads the tape of him undercutting the original bill and then trying to take credit at the VFW while scrolling the number of veteran's bills that he has voted against). Indeed, most of McCain's best news coverage has come because of his ads. It should be the same for us. If it is off the table, then Obama does not deserve to be president.
Lastly, the news gives sh*t for Obama because there is no consequence to dissing him. The Republicans have spent years with the myth of Liberal bias and making the press pay for failing to kowtow. Its about time the Democrat party started.
August 19, 2008 11:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama needs to point out that McCain is using the Bush Strategy that got us into the Iraq War in the first place. If you don't agree with me then you are unamerican. Because Barack doesn't agree with John McCain he attacks his Patriotism - more of the same Geroge Bush rhetoric.
August 19, 2008 11:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, this is getting a bit better. But Obama and his campaign need to keep hitting back hard against McCain.
And they need to STOP SAYING WHAT A GREAT PATRIOT MCCAIN IS! Stop praising your opponent, damn it!
This is not going to decided in some Ivy League debate hall, for Pete's sake.
Michael Moore is spot-on that that's a way to lose this election.
August 19, 2008 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely. It's not John McCain that is morally corrupt, it's his campaign advisers. Well, once he is elected the wont need the campaign advisers anymore so then he'll go back to being all mavericky.
August 19, 2008 11:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why pundits and people never jump to the rather obvious follow-up question "wait, do we really want someone who has no clue what people around him are doing and cannot make them follow his orders?" has remained somewhat unclear to me.
August 19, 2008 11:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
Heh heh, too true. Problem is, that most Americans don't think about the crazy advisers that will become next Gonzalez or Gooding or Scooter that actually do the business of running the White House.
August 19, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
When you tell a room full of veterans that you honor McCain's military service, everyone in the room knows what that is about. Every veteran knows that not everyone who wore a uniform is a hero. You can honor a man's service and still criticize the man. That is what Barack is doing.
"Brutus is an honorable man."
August 19, 2008 11:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's not just this speech though. It's almost pavlovian with Obama - He can't criticize McCain without first saying "He's an American Hero"...
August 19, 2008 11:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a magnificent speech.
Let's work to see that Mr. Obama gets the opportunity to act on those words as Presient and Commander-in-Chief.
August 19, 2008 11:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
I've said it before and I'll say it again. War hero or no, all you need to know about McCain is that he sports a comb-over. I understand that Obama can't bring that up, but once America really understands that McCain sports a comb-over, they will not vote for him.
August 19, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Right! Barack has been spot-on with the campaign so far, except he is just too much of a wuss to hit McCain hard on the COMB-OVER!
Doesn't BO care about winning?
August 19, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey! My dad sports a comb-over. I resent that remark! You liberal elitist just are so out of touch with the "Real America". Real America loves the comb-over! Real America wants to have a beer with the comb-over. The only way Obama can win over Real America(TM) is to grow a mullet, because if there's one thing Real America loves more than the comb-over, it's the mullet.
August 19, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love the way all of you are political strategists now after 8 month or a year of following politics. Something everyone needs to understand is Karl Rove had a 13 point lead against Gore and lost the popular vote. He would have had similar results with Kerry if he (Kerry)had bothered to work in Missouri, Iowa, and Ohio. Kerry said they did not have the money to compete.The point I am trying to make is that Rove is not a genius, his way eeked out an election. The idea that it will work again is what has all of you scared.
This is a fact about America, there is about 42% that are to the right and about 45% that are progressive, that leaves 12-13% that are trully in the middle. They are the ones on the sidelines and make up their mind late. The other thing is a lot of people do not vote. If you can get your people to the polls you win. The people we need to vote are not following as hard as we do, trust me. The people that are following every move are the choirs on both sides. The people we need to show up are watching the olympics, are dealing with back to school shopping, tuition, registration, e.t.c they will be fully involved come September.
Enthusiam is not really measured by phone calls, it is fundraising, voter registration, volunteers, retail politics as we say. If we get our people to the polls we will be fine
August 19, 2008 11:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fantastic speech on so many levels. It's inspiring, but also content-rich. Excellent job of framing the issues. Will Americans read the thing? Will the MSM just repeat some controversial-sounding soundbites? We'll see.
August 19, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama and his handlers continue to maintain a defensive posture, he will lose. Simple as that.
August 19, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
This speech is very much on the offense on:
1) The decision to go to war and McCain's massively erroneous predictions from the start)
2) Following Bin Laden to the gates of Hell (unless it involves attacks in Pakistan)
3) defining the surge as a success
4) Policy towards Veterans (my opponent did not support Webb's GI Bill)
Other very substantive points as well that will form the basis for attacks throughout the campaign.
Just calling out McCain for being a bully is dumb. Making fun of McCain's bluster about following Bin Laden to the gates of hell is gold.
August 19, 2008 12:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Attacking McCain's military service won't work so Obama isn't doing it. McCain either does the same thing or comes across as dishonorable.
August 19, 2008 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Any vid on this speech yet?
August 19, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
I so agree. This would not have to be playing dirty or distorting the truth, which I think most of us agree we don't want Obama to do. He can hit McCain, not hit back, hard on McCain's record. But nothing personal necessary, doesn't even have to use the Cindy stuff, just the issues.
August 19, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gbenga said:
Obama is handling this in the grown-up manner. Going all out guns ablazing is the primitive lizard-brain "solution."
If you cannot handle the process of changing the way politics is done, I invite you to find someone else to vote for.
August 19, 2008 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
You all are too hopped up on the patriotism thing. You keep thinking this is a replay of Bush II vs. Kerry when it is Bush I vs BClinton. (the attacks on patriotism worked on the military guy but not on the draft-dodger...ask yourself why...hint: it's about the people).
What this speech offers that is different and potentially powerful, especially in a debate is the very specific contrasts on judgment: especially the decision to go to war from the beginning (the hit on McCain following Bin Laden to teh gates of Hell was nice too)
I was right, he was wrong. What kind of judgment does America need.
So you love your country, then why did you lead us down a path that weakens our defenses and emboldens our enemies, wastes precious resources and drives the price of oil sky high.
Does a America need a president who is trigger happy or who understand the the right way to defend our country.
McCain is making a huge bet on the idea that he was right about the surge, 4 years into the war. Obama will counter with, you were wrong about the war (in your own words) and I was right.
August 19, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you are right on, ogliberal. Obama cannot start attacking McCain, the war hero, at a personal level. That McCain is seen that way is a 'given' in our country and Obama has very wisely not even stepped on that dangerous territory. The best way to tarnish McCain's image is to let him keep acting the way he is -- it's so at odds with people's image of him that there is a recoil, when it might be seen as 'sharp politics' from someone else.
----- Also, Obama just plain doesn't do it well. Remember that one debate where for the first half he tried to get snarky/nasty with Clinton. He was lousy!! That isn't who he is. As Andrew Sullivan said recently, Obama angry (about the false charges that he voted to let live infants die) is like Sullivan after a meditation session.
There's reallly no way around it. It is, as Obama says, about the American voters. If they want the clipped, certain, cartoon character with tough sound bites, McCain is going to win. Just as Bush did in 2004 and for the same reasons. Kerry didn't "lose" that election. Anyone willing to think knew the Swift Boat stuff was a crock - there simply weren't enough people who wanted to think. (In hindsight, if anything on the Dem. side 'lost' that election, it was John Edwards and the ... apparently justified ... instinctive aversion some people had of his possibly being in power.)
So if people want to think and listen and have a president who will do both, who will be honest with them even if honesty requires a full sentence and not a 5-word quip, then Obama wins. We get the president we deserve.
There are things about the Obama campaign that I would have changed (I'd have had him in the weekly town hall meetings, to be honest) but if it's going to be effective at all, with any segment of the population, it has to be authentic -- it has to fit him.
I'd be a lot happier if his supporters where thinking more about what *they* could do to help their fellow citizens not be afraid to "think" and listen rather than telling Obama what we believe he should do that might not fit him at all. Ultimately, it's going to come down to the voters -- and if they are so shallow (or afraid) as to feel that a "tough guy, put up yer dukes" person is the best bet, then McCain will win.
August 19, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, I am glad that we all concede that McCain is a war hero, a patriot, an experience Senator and all around good guy. Now hand him the keys to the White House because your strategy guarantees him the presidency.
Get a brain. The presidency is not only about policies. It is also about leadership. Who is the better person better able to lead? McCain has too many negatives in this area. A war hero - fine. The veterans do not give a sh=t. They know how they have been served. However, the rest of our nation does not. We cannot mention veterans issues because McCain is a War Hero (who made over 30 propaganda broadcasts for the North Vietnamese) and we have to praise these qualifications every time that he smears Obama,.
God save us from idiots like you. McCain flip flops, he lies, he is too ambitious, he is in the hands of the lobbyists and he is Bush lite. None of this comes through. Kerry should have won the election by a landslide in 2004. The people were already tiring of his handling of Iraq. This one should be a walk away. We have seen exactly the same pattern with Gore and Kerry. Now please, stop taking the dumb pills and show some backbone.
August 19, 2008 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
An AA freshman senator with the middle-name of Hussein who spent part of his childhood in Indonesia running against a storied POW maverick hero who the press gives donuts to is supposed to be a walk away? Now who is taking the the dumb pills?
August 19, 2008 12:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it says something good about Obama that people tend to forget this. I was for Obama for a long time and, in my opinion, was supporting a candidate that would have a harder road to climb than another safer Democrat. But I said then and I say now, I want to try and put the best choice available into the White House.
And one of the aspects that led me to give him my support was his civility.
And right now there is no evidence that McCain is gaining new voters in any significant amount, nor is Obama being fundamentally redefined. Looking at Gallop and Rasmussen results, the two are looked in a stalemate. Obama isn't pulling away but neither is McCain.
Bring on the convention and the VP
August 19, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a former republican (Reagan twice... yeah, I know... and the first Bush once) and a Gulf War veteran, I want to point out something that I noticed while serving... similar to the the way certain people will use the expression "I don't trust him" (in reference to Obama) in an attempt to cover their racist nature, so too will members of the military opposed to Barack Obama, couch their comments regarding him, i.e.; not saying what they really think but espousing a more generalized apprehension about him. I distinctly remember thinking at the time that too many people in the military replaced their parents with the military and as such, sought political guidance from the military -and it is there, in violation of military regulations of course, but the military 'nudges' soldiers to vote republican... things I heard? Do you want to have a job? Think of what the Democrats will do to the military... despite the fact that President Bush has done far more to wreck the military than President Clinton ever did, remember he was working to pay down the deficit left by the profligate spending of Reagan and Bush.
Think about this when you view comments from (some) former members of the military.
August 19, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
You raise an interesting point, but I wonder (not having ever been in the military) whether the situation has changed a bit among the rank-and-file. I read a story recently that says that active military are contributing to Obama at something like six times the rate they are contributing to McCain.
Of course, donations don't necessarily track support. It may be that twenty times the number of active military more or less passively support McCain without donating.
August 19, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Silver lining time: Thank God our army is (overextended) in Iraq and Afghanistan, that has kept Bush from sending more troops to Georgia.
August 19, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess I'm not surprised at how naive some of the comments seem to me. As long as Obama puts himself in the position of responding to McCain (rather than attacking him and everything he stands for) he will be percieved as the weaker candidate. (I've seen better, more hard hitting, effective Obama ads on Youtube, created by people who have nothing to do with his campaign. Not an encouraging sign.)
And it doesn't help when Obama praises McCain as a war hero as he did in Reno yesterday.
Come September, the McCain camp will fully take the gloves off and make what they have done so far seem like child's play. The Republicans will do anything not to lose this election.
August 19, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, this is weak. They will attack his patriotism through november. Stop asking them to stop, it sounds like whining. Attack mcbush's positions, point out that he really doesn't give a shit about the troops or the american people. Is that patriotic? Nope, so you basically attack mcbush's patriotism as well, without saying so. Lame response.
Obama has to start attacking mcbush's policies and positions and stop whining. The whining is getting the press, not the attacks.
I am stressing out. He better get on the ball and act and campaign pre-february primary mode. He is still acting post february and like he has this locked up, which he doesn't. We all know how well it went when he stopped "defining" the clintons. Comeon obama let's get with the program.
August 19, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chet Edwards on veterans issues.
August 19, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Obama is making a mistake by making this argument all about him rather than about McCain's horrific record of judgment on Iraq. He is playing into McCain's hand by elevating a tit-for-tat campaign exchange that will dominate the news cycle today instead of attacks on McCain's record.
Better to relentlessly focus on McCain's fight-first, go-it-alone mentality - the same mentality that has destroyed our standing in the world. People still overwhelmingly trust McCain on national security - unbelievably - and he needs to be constantly hammered on that.
August 19, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama cannot start attacking McCain, the war hero, at a personal level. That McCain is seen that way is a 'given' in our country and Obama has very wisely not even stepped on that dangerous territory.
This is fundamentally incorrect. McCain must be re-defined. Rather than simply accept that McCain is what his reputation says he is, Obama must confront that directly with a consistent attack theme: McCain has sold out. You win American presidential elections not by observing frames of reference but by creating them. Obama might be clever to give McCain his due as a POW but, folks, that was a LONG time ago. When it comes to McCain, 8 years is a long time ago. McCain is not the man he once was. He isn't a "maverick" anymore. He isn't "independent" anymore. He has sold out to the Republican machine and is beholden to the pillars of Republicanism: oil companies, warmongerers, greedheads, and religious nuts. That is the theme: McCain is not the man he was; he has sold out and cashed in. Now he's Bush-lite.
August 19, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, stipulate to the war hero, and attack him for everything since. Obama doesn't even have to mention the war hero crap at this point, it's already out there. Go after his horrible record. He isn't a "maverick" in any event, that was a false lable created by the right-wing media. Define him for what he is, not bush-lite, but bush on steroids. Mcbush wants to blow up everything and attack, attack, attack. It's time to turn the page.
August 19, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please find a different candidate to vote for. I am sure someone out there caters to your desire for old politics.
If you cannot handle the process of changing the way politics is done, I invite you to find someone else to vote for.
Telling people not to vote for Obama unless they meet your purity test? You are either a McCain booster or in serious need of maturation.
August 19, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Correct. Obama has been running his campaign consistently in the same manner; it is who he is. If you cannot accept his style and prefer the old-style politics the Republicans have taught you, I recommend you find someone else to vote for.
August 19, 2008 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
After reading this speech, I think that people who say Obama has no substance are full of it.
As to the argument about Obama needing to attack McCain - He does - he attacks McCain's policies, which is what he should do.
Obama can't complain about McCain's personal attacks on him, and then turn around and say "McCain's got a comb-over and treats his wife like sh*t".
When Obama attacks McCain on policies, he's doing two things - he's showing he's a grown up (while McCain sounds like a whining petulant child), and he's showing why his policies are better for America. McCain has no real policy positions, except Drill and Bomb - so he can't really defend them.
August 19, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
For everyone that is worried about Obama's performance, get off the inter-tubes an get involved in your local and state level races instead (or if you can only do the inter-tubes- try some state level sites as well).
Support those candidates and knock on doors for them. Get people to vote DEM for local and state level candidates and they will also vote DEM for POTUS.
That's what I'm doing this year. Waaay more effective than trying to change the national race - their stragegies are set, you aren't gonna change them.
August 19, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen.
August 19, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just like the Primary campaign, Obama is focused on leading after the election, whereas Sen Clinton before and John McCain now are focused on winning the election.
As hard as it has been to bring around Sen Clinton supporters, think about how harder it would have been, and how many more hold outs there would be if he attacked back at the same level?
Similarly with this election, if he attacks McCain on anything other than policy it will become personal and it will entrench Republicans against him, so even if he won it would be a daily fight and four or eight more years of partisan bickering and government stalemate.
Now of course he has to win the election first, or this strategy is meaningless. However his campaign believes they are winning. It's about the ground campaign for them right now, and about hearts and minds that you can't win with a nifty attack ad, or win overnight. He needs people to feel comfortable enough with him, the centrists, independents and even moderate Republican. He's not running to convince the GOP hardcore base to support him, because that's not going to happen and no matter what he says or does isn't going to change their vote. Not every Republican listens to Hannity or Limbaugh, thus not every American is going to buy into the attack ads McCain is running.
August 19, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
"As hard as it has been to bring around Sen Clinton supporters, think about how harder it would have been, and how many more hold outs there would be if he attacked back at the same level?"
Jonze, you and I need our own talk show brother - what you just stated, truer words have yet to be spoken. You are exactly right, when Hillary had the gall to bring up Tony Rezko during the debates - just imagine how pissed her supporters would have been if Obama had very cavalierly rattled off the hundreds of slimy people Mrs. Clinton is associated with? Just imagine if Obama had brought up Mark Rich? Or Bill's infidelity? All tactics that would have been in sync with Hillary's attacks - but Obama didn't go there.
August 19, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bear in mind too - many of those folk were getting their first real look at the scary black man.
And some of them will be - "wait, what?!?!"
August 19, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
IMO, this is evidence his strategy is an educational one. It makes perfect sense -- he was a professor after all. Once this gains traction, the McCain camp will be clueless as to how to respond.
Obama knows firsthand education can be a powerful tool when concepts are made relevant and meaningful to students. He will encounter some challenging classroom management issues over the next few months, but from all indications, he can handle it.
Bravo!
August 19, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep it simple.
Obama has no military credibility.
No amount of eloquent speechifying will change that.
August 19, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
last time I checked getting shot down and then making propaganda films for the enemy didn't really equal military credibility either.
besides, since when is military creds a prerequisite for office? It's a civilian commanded military. We have all the generals and experts we need. What is missing is the civilian with the judgement to lead them strategically. judgement is an area where mccain is severely lacking.
August 19, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
fogu2 says;
Obama has no military credibility.
After 8 years of Bush/Cheney and their military credibility that might be a plus for Obama.
August 19, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
fogu2 says;
Obama has no military credibility.
After 8 years of Bush/Cheney and their military credibility that might be a plus for Obama.
Oh, and where was Reagan's military capability?
August 19, 2008 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're kidding of course. Compared to Jimmy "malaise" Carter?
August 19, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fogu2 wrote:
"Keep it simple.
Obama has no military credibility. No amount of eloquent speechifying will change that."
Did that hurt George Wobble-you Bush?
August 20, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
that's the obama i expected all along...
excellence incarnate!! keep em coming CIC...
August 19, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Americans do not like losers or wimps and too often the Democrats instinctively it seems act like both.
Georgia is the Katrina of McBush foreign policy - a metaphor for American impotence. McBush has LOST every major foreign adventure in the past 8 years
Time to have the guts to call it
August 19, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is about tried and true propaganda tactics developed by the NAZI's during the decline of the German Republic. I suggest that you read and get your sorry asses together. The Republican elite have not hidden their desire tou create a permanent Republican majority better known as a one party state and they are succeeding.
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/16554
August 19, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
i like joe biden,chris dodd,tim kaine,all them guys cool,but right now General.Wesley Clark is the fuckin man right now,Clark is a fuckin genius like Barack,please i pray to God Barack picks Clark as his V.P!!!
August 19, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you read Obama’s entire speech, you see it is really a great speech. He didn't need to say anything else before the VFW. It was outstanding. In my opinion. However he doesn't need to keep repeating that McCain was a POW and saying that he is/was a hero. Just focus on what he has done in is public career. There is plenty there to talk about.
August 19, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Certain states that looked safe for Obama in June/July are now back in play: MN, WI, and IA. If Obama does not strike back soon, he may be Dukakis revisited by mid-September.
August 19, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
His public career is what I meant to say. Darn typos.
August 19, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
GEN.WESLEY CLARK,GEN.WESLEY CLARK,GEN.WESLEY CLARK,GEN.WESLEY CLARK,GEN.WESLEY CLARK,GEN.WESLEY CLARK,valedictorian at west point got a rhodes scholarship to the univ of oxford got a degree in economics,philosophy and politics speaks spanish fluent served in the U.S Army for 38 yrs got an honorary knighthood as well as a presidential medal of freedom!!! OBAMA/CLARK08!!!!
August 19, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I supported General Clark in 2004 before he dropped out. Having two smart guys on the ticket seems like a good idea to me.
August 19, 2008 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gen.Wesley Clark was NATO Supreme allied commander in europe from 1997 to 2000,he saved 1.5 million kosovo people wit out 1 american soldier getting hurt,hes well experience in national security and foreign policy and hes anti war like barack!!!
OBAMA/CLARK 08!!!
August 19, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like Barack, General Clark didn't grow up in a wealthy family. I've always liked him, even when he was SACEUR. He did a great job there. Unfortunately I don't think he will be offered the VP spot. 28% of the delegates want Hillary. No way.
August 19, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
well u know Gen.Wesley Clark was a staunch hillary clinton supporter and he use to work for pres.bill clinton.OBAMA/CLARK08!!!!
August 19, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama expects to win, he needs to explain to voters how his proposed policies and positions will benefit them and the country. He cannot depend on voters to figure it out for themselves.
August 19, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
The battle between "sincerity/new politics" vs. "old style/negativity" has been going on for a long time. Do we think the history books will give a damn how Obama ran his campaign and how "noble" he was by not going negative if McSame wins?
August 19, 2008 6:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. It is weak and defensive, and it is playing along to McCain's tune. "It's time that we all agree that I am not a traitor." It's a Kerry moment. Too late in August for comfort.
August 20, 2008 1:33 AM | Reply | Permalink