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McCain POW-POW-POWs Yet Again, This Time On Leno

John McCain POW-POW-POWs yet again to deflect criticism of the number-of-houses crack, this time during a taped segment with Jay Leno that's set to air later tonight:

"You've got enough of those," Leno cracked. "You need a white one, too." Later, he asked McCain: "For $1 million, how many houses do you have?"

At that, McCain got serious, saying he had been imprisoned for five-and-a-half years during the Vietnam war, and that "I didn't have a house. I didn't have a kitchen table. I didn't have a table."

Dunno, seems to me that there's a pretty severe risk for McCain in POW-POW-POWing on Leno, of all places. McCain is already drifting dangerously close to late night comedy territory when he POW-POW-POWs in serious settings.


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Out of curiosity, what was the reaction to McCain's cry for sympathy?

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One reason McCain's POW response to his forgetfulness or senility or lack of attention to detail or whatever it is strikes me as strange:

McCain left captivity 35 years ago, in 1973.

It just seems odd to suggest that the fact that he was a POW 35 years ago explains why he doesn't know or can't remember how many houses he has.

Please please please keep doing this John.

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Exactly. It would thrill me no end if McCain made his POW riff an involuntarily reflex. I'm not sure why Greg (or any others here at TPM) would want to warn the McCain camp away from it.

I think that peoples' reflexive response is to warn McCain away from it because his statements do a disservice to those who have served in the armed forces.

McCain is making such a mockery of his time in Vietnam, that he deserves some mockery himself.

Yes--this is the story of this whole cycle for the Republicans: going to the Nat Security/War Hero bag one more time, and finding it empty. That's what Obama's all about too: knowing damned well the bag is empty, feeling no fear, moving on...

Keep it up John. You're campaigning for the Dems now.

Attack attack attack!

This is just bluster designed to frighten the Dems from hitting McCain.

Last time something like this came up, I thought he's doing it because it polls well.

I wonder if the other reason is because Obama praised him so often for being a genuine American war hero.

Could it be that McCain calculates that Obama himself inoculated him?

I'm still puzzled by this POW stuff. As of late, McCain doesn't seem to be doing anything that's not calculated.

I think it's calculated, but I think his math is a bit fuzzy. This is going to hurt him. McCain was turning Obama's strength into a weakness, and now he's turning his own strength into a weakness.

It probably does poll well with a large segement of the population.

But someone had linked to the debate at Reagan's musuem, when he used it as way to differentiate himself, and the crowd just went into a spontaneous standing ovation. You could see him basking in this. That is hard to let go.

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Point of order: McCain couldn't calculate what a 10-gallon tank of $5/gal gas costs.

Any "calculating" going on here is being done by Karl Rove.

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That's the same hourly wage that McCindy said Americans wouldn't work for on Arizona farms.

McCain POW overdrive: When will it end?

Probably not anytime soon...

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ONE MORE TIME, hopefully before THIS thread dies, too: ad, talking point, preferably both expressing this idea:

"It's no wonder John McCain would prefer to talk about an unpopular war that happened 40 years ago...because then he doesn't have to talk about the unpopular war going on right now that he wants to continue for at least another 5 years."

In one fell swoop, it makes talking about "POW! POW!" a negative and hangs Iraq around his neck.

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Post this to 12seconds.tv or on Seesmic and make it viral.

If McCain can't even joke about this on Leno, it must be getting to him. They're going to keep poking and prodding him about it, and one of these days, he's gonna flip hit shit. And I wanna be there and see it when it happens.

I think the subtext is that they are Cindy's houses, that in order to explain it, he has to tell the story about HER father making the money and passing the money to HER so that SHE could buy the houses. This is a manhood issue for John.

This is a manhood issue for John.

LOL! ...I think you meant it seriously, but I find the notion funny, and funnier because it's probably true.

Still, it's pissing him off. Badly. And he's going to show his Hulk-like temper one of these times.

Yeah, I'm serious. Think of his generation of males, growing up in a military household and within the military culture, and now he has to explain how he is basically the pool boy. Maybe he uses the POW for something like this because it restores his dignity.


There is a reason that they didn't let him speak with the press today. I think it is the fear of the Hulk.

You're right, though. The fact that it does hit on those gender and masculinity undertones probably pisses him off more than simply the issue of him seeming like an out-of-touch elitist after having tried for months to brand Obama as such.

McCain: Kept man first!

NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!

The awkaward explanation of Cindy's father achieving the American dream ... so weird.

McCain's just a gigolo sponging off other people's hardwork. I bet he is embarassed about it. It is a manhood issue.

I recommend continuing to probe and hit on this issue. Anything that stings McCain must be good.

I wonder if he's like this at home.

"No Cindy, I won't. For five and a half years, I didn't even have a toilet seat to put down if I wanted to."

We just need one SNL skit abotu this and it will be all the talk.

Yes! They can fully regain their place in social relevance by having some fun with this. That would be two times within a year that they would be referenced in the news!

Won't happen -- Lorne Michaels is totally in the tank for McCain. Just you wait until you see the way SNL treats McCain vs. Obama when the new season starts up....

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co-sign.

POW POW POW OW OW OW

It's sad that we have to mock what this guy went through. Five years of awful, awful shit. But that's what he deserves. Reminds me of that Harvey Dent quote from Batman (not to be too lame): You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. He brought this on himself.

http://pufferfish.typepad.com/

Enough with the war stories, grandpa. This is drifting into Ted Baxter territory "It all started at a 5000 watt radio station..."

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Damn, you went there...BWHAHAHAHA

This reminds me too much of a grumpy old grandpa, complaining about the depression or wwii.

Also, it's powerful as something unspoken or indirectly addressed. It's kind of sad and pathetic to see him loudly trumpeting it.

It's already a humorous meme, albeit a shameful one...

"Why didn't you wash the toilet?"
"Well, you know, I didn't even have a toilet for five years!"

"Did you forget to pick up milk and eggs tonight?"
"Maybe...but I didn't have milk and eggs IN PRISON."

"We need to see the doctor about your premature ejaculation."
"I had to hurry...time was short while I WAS A POW!"

The Begala Plan

ATTACK..ATTACK..ATTACK...ATTACK..
ATTACK...ATTACK...ATTACK..

The McSongbird response


POW....POW...POW...POW
POW....POW...POW

Then he'll throw one of his temper tantrums

And should McCain achieve the White House,,,,, he will complain that he has to live in government housing becaise he was a POW.

You mean you did not know McCain's POW meter goes to 11.

For five and a half years he didn't even get to have a POW meter, so back off!

My bad.

I guess at that time all he could talk about was crashing 5 planes.

"I didn't vote for the Martin Luther King, Jr. holiday because after all, my friends, he was never a POW."

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This POW stuff is not "morning in America". Keep provoking him to do this. It focuses him squarely looking backward mired in a bitter past. If Obama can't refocus himself with a strong message directed towards the future, he's going to deserve to lose.

Sheesh, compare McCain and his old war stories to Ted Kennedy's fervor for universal health care, passing the torch to the future, etc. McCain's a fossil. Let him brand himself.

I think he's daring Obama to call him out on it.

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Obama doesn't need to.

This is a good point. Obama or a surrogate. They step over a trip wire, and then, we get a huge NASCAR initiative about dishonoring our men and women in uniform, MIAs, those who made the ultimate sacrifice and their grieving families, and how despicable and un-American it is. Funded by big Swift Boat money.

Be careful.

Yes, but if Obama and surrogates respond with pity, it takes the wind out of McCain's sails. It also makes Obama seem not respectful/fearful but courageous/magnanimous. Its a great move.

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Don't forget the bikers.

Lordy! Rachel Maddow went off on this on MSNBC just now, and the crowd looking on broke into cheers!

She was FANTASTIC!!!

Pat Buchanan, OTOH, is a complete asshat.

The thing I hate about Pat... Ok one of the things I hate about Pat is that he knows he is lying. He can't keep a straight face when he is shoveling it hip deep. Especially when someone calls him on it.

I agree....even he doesn't believe his own crap sometimes.

Just watched it. She was genuinely fed up with Pat Buchanan's bullshit defense.

I love me some Rachel Maddow.

I don't know; I didn't get the impression that Buchanan was so much defending it as he was giving a realpolitik explanation of it.

He may (and in fact probably) thinks it has some merit outside of mere effectiveness, but he didn't really indicate that. And frankly, that's the way that Buchanan's comments often seem to be:

You're not going to find many other conservative talking heads who will say "he's doing it because it works".

All the other conservative talking heads will say "he's doing it because Barack Obama is an effete out-of-touch celebrity who has no idea what it's like to suffer for five and a half years in a Vietnamese prison like real patriots such as John McCain do".

That was so awesome. Rachel Maddow kicks so much ass. She absolutely leveled him.

Pathetic.

And then some.

and Buchanan kept saying it works it works it works. we will be hearing the I did not have a table or a house line many many times.

I may have been hallucinating, but I thought I saw Pat Buchanan with a Hitler mustache giving a Nazi salute as they went to break.

On a serious note, there's this about the neo-Nazi assassination plot:

http://cbs4denver.com/investigates/assisination.plot.obama.2.802827.html


oh yeah. its out there. thank god these mfers seem to be totally dim witted.

No doubt someone's connected this dot already, but it's priceless: McCain was POW-POW-POWing right from the start of his political career, using some of the same exact lines. Here's video of the 1982 ad, taken from The New Republic:

http://www.tnr.com/story_print.html?id=0fd7470d-a41f-4d9e-9328-fd079b476a0a

THE ASSASSINATION PLOT: Despite reports of it all being not so serious, Fighting Bill's link (accurate?) suggests this was a genuine assassination attempt focused on the acceptance speech with four plotters, probably about to break as major news.

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A bit off topic but go over to The Corner and check out the commentary related to Obama's response to they Ayers ad. They are saying things like, "biggest mistake of the campaign", and, "worst political ad ever", calling it a huge blunder on Obama's part. Why? Well, because he's highlighting an issue that they say has been largely confined to the Internet. He's making it bigger than it is. Never mind that Hannity talks about it every day. Never mind that the 527 that is running it has $3M to burn. Never mind that Stanley Kurtz from National Review has filed an FOIA to get files released that he hopes will show some nefarious connection between Ayers and Obama. Never mind that the wingnuts have been pushing this story for months. Never mind that McCain's camp has mentioned it in the past. Never mind that it was going to come out sooner or later.

They are responding the way they are because they can't believe Obama - a Dem - fought back. They are shocked. And worried...because this guy ain't going to sit back and take it. And because they probably think that Obama's response may be, um, effective.

I know there was wide approval of the Obama response ad on this forum. I agreed with that approval and still do. Anybody else think the wingnuts have a point? Do you think they really honestly think it was a bad move, even though we disagree? Or do you think they are responding the way they are - and the McCain camp is also getting huffy - because they are worried that Obama's response will work and that he will continue to respond to whatever crap they throw at them.

Interested to hear the views of the folks here. And do check out The Corner and Jen Rubin on Contentions.

I think you're right on that they can't believe he attacking right away. I mean the basic lesson of swiftboat was go at it quickly and strongly. This is no different. And the story is not get traction because of the response, but the media latches onto the original story for one reason or another.

Well, not responding didn't work so well for Kerry.

Obama's in a no-win situation here. I personally would rather have him go down fighting and taking it straight at them then sitting back and taking it like Kerry did.

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Obama should definitely be swinging as hard as he is, but I strongly disagree that this is a "no-win situation"--on the contrary the Obama campaign, with a team effort between Barack and his "surrogates," can mop the floor with the McCain campaign on this one, because it's one more piece of evidence to show that McCain is stuck in the past and has nothing of substance to offer.

I thought the ad was very effective, stating this all took place when Obama was 8 years old. Game point.

I really like to see these kinds of comments here. Let's not just be an echo chamber, but let's throw in some introspection and open-mindedness about what the other side might be saying.

Then, lets go kick them in the nuts, again.

This is just damned pathetic. "Please vote for me ... because I have suffered." Cringe-worthy. But this being America ... I can see it working.

It is the night of Dem Convention and nine out of ten TPM posts are about McInsane and his stupid antics ?

Great Job, Greggie.

You know, there is a line of thinking that says that if you make this election about Bush and McSame, you improve your chances of winning in November. I think we need to be the surrogates who bring pressure to bear on McCain's lies, non-stop, until the corporae media has no choice but to do its job.

I think Obama's job is to help people who may be on the fence -- and there are a few, still -- see the connection between his vision and their lives. I think he needs to talk about his understanding of their real life dilemmas and fears -- from not being able to pay fo rtheir kid's college, or having to cope with the loss of a job, or a loss of benefits (while hte company raises executive compensation), or getting through a catastrophic illness or injury with inadequate health insurance, and how it impacts people who have not enjoyed a lifetime of phenomenal success -- before he segues into his message of hope. And if he can establish that empathy, this election will be over. Actually, in my opinion it is over, the ground game will win big, and the polls just don't capture that -- but I still think he needs to let others take the more negative side.

"Anybody else think the wingnuts have a point? Do you think they really honestly think it was a bad move, even though we disagree? Or do you think they are responding the way they are - and the McCain camp is also getting huffy - because they are worried that Obama's response will work and that he will continue to respond to whatever crap they throw at them."

Yes, no and yes. Look, Republicans operate at a very unsophisticated psychological level which is, sadly, nonetheless pretty effective due to the audience to whom they are speaking: 1) the Democrat is weak and/or effeminate, 2) everything that the Democrat does or says shows what a (weak and/or effeminate) loser he is (this particular wingnut "point"). Rinse. Repeat.

It works but only strain your brain on the psychology and intellect required of the average voter and media gasbag to make it work, not on the message itself. It's idiot-poof, so to speak.

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Now word is that the Obama campaign is asking the Justice Department to investigate the group that placed the ad:

"Obama general counsel Bob Bauer wrote to Deputy Assistant Attorney General John Keeney last week in a letter provided to Politico. Bauer argued that by advocating Obama’s defeat, the ad should be subject to the contribution limits of federal campaign law, not the anything-goes regime of issue advocacy."

They're also having supporters contact networks/affiliates to request that they not air the ad.

Good idea? Bad idea?

How many Iraqis don't have tables to come home to?
How many kitchen tables will be missing somebody because of the Iraq war?
How many Americans can't afford a kitchen table because of Bush/McCain economic policies?

dcp - Nice catch.

Just watched the McCain '82 ad. The
POW-pity-party has been the game plan from the start. Of all the ways to introduce himself, he goes straight for the POW. Must have polled well back then too.

I guess I should be grateful that he's making this error but in reality it is just so sad...

I imagine if I were a POW with a similar experience to John McCain's. I would be pretty disgusted with him trying to use that experience to get out of every stupid mistake he makes.

Again, if your experience as a POW creates a lack of memory that keeps you from knowing how many houses you own, then it's really not a good idea for you to be the president of the United States....

"I'm sick and tired of re-fighting the Vietnam War. And most importantly, I'm sick and tired of opening the wounds of the Vietnam War, which I've spent the last 30 years trying to heal," the Arizona Republican said at a lunch with USA TODAY and Gannett News Service. "It's offensive to me, and it's angering to me that we're doing this. It's time to move on."

August 25, 2004, USA Today

Wow. Good find.

I'm certain that McCain used the POW thing during the Keating Five scandal. We just need to keep the joke running with the monopolopy card etc. The late night shows will pick it up, or at least Jon Stewart will. But don't count on SNL, Michael Lorne is a McCain supporter.
I still don't think people care about what happened in the 1960s and 70s. They care about their financial difficulties, that they are working harder and still getting behind.
Did you read about Cindy's dad being arrested once and having very close ties to the mafia? Definitely not the way McCain is portraying his father-in-law.

McCain brings shame to every POW by using his experience for political gain. Oh how the mighty have fallen. McCain has no honor and no soul

I cheated on my wife, I was aPOW
I dont know how many houses I have, I was POW

No you are a dickbag

You were a POW forty years ago and a huge asshole today

I am a POW is Mccain magic wound that earaes all bad things and all critisms wooooosh

P(issed off) O(ff) W(ar monger)

Kept men can be such bitches.
Keep it up JohnBoy and your insecure man issues will show your colors.

The proper response to McCain's POW-POW-POW-ing is pity. "We feel sorry for what he had to go through" "It must have left deep scars" "He should have our sympathy" That's SYMPATHY not RESPECT.

If people start to pity him, he loses the illusion of strength.

Too right. The more his "man" image is shaken, the more he will falter.

Great insight. We should have compassiong for how those years must have affected him... maybe the pressures of being the president would really be bad for him...

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"I, John McInsane, noun verb becuase I was a P.O.W."

"I, John McInsane, noun verb becuase I was a P.O.W."

"I, John McInsane, noun verb becuase I was a P.O.W."

"I, John McInsane, noun verb becuase I was a P.O.W."

"I, John McInsane, noun verb becuase I was a P.O.W."

With three you get POW!

...

My teeth used to look dark and POW-ish. Now, with Pepsodent they look--oh, wait, they still look POW-ish.

...

I could never seem to get out those dark and dingy POWs. Until I started putting new ELIXIRCOL crystals into the wash! Now my whole wash smells fresh and POW-free!

I used to be a 97 lb weakling. At the beach, Liberals would kick sand in my face and make time with my girl. Then I discovered the John McCain '&-Days To POW-ER' self-actualization course. It has changed my life. I used to be one of those book-reading, sensitive, considerate wimps. No more!

Now I eat puppies for breakfast and crap gold nuggets. I kick ass and take names, ( but I don't spell them correctly, like some pansy liberal would!)

Thank you, John McCain! I will vote for you! (Well, I would, but I'm in Leavenworth, doing 10-15 for tax fraud... you know how THAT goes).

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Question to John McCain. You came home on a stretcher, but over 58,000 Americans during the Vietnam war came home in a coffin. There was over 455,000 injured like you and I. You got to live your American Dream of Dumping your crippled wife for a wealthy young women.I would trade places any day with you for the life of my brother that died in 1967.

On a positive note that maybe the meme is starting to take hold, last night Larry King knocked Michael Reagan off balance by asking him in so many words whether it is logical to say if he was a POW than that makes him a great leader, and this morning one of them brought up Tonight Show response to houses and Dowd's NYT article and asked a Repub strategist whether McCain was overusing the POW card.

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Why was McCain the only one in his group of POW's that was not given medals for his time in captivity? Why are his military records frozen? One of his fellow POW's has asked that question. Is this approach simply a Republican style swift boating?

It's a good thing that Obama was not in the military or they would be accusing him of dishonorable service.

Funny how prescient the WALNUTS! video was.

"And don't forget, I was tortured!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X8dLXvqu8k

of course big john only talks about being a pow .... he still IS a pow ... that's what he knows, what he does ... he can't survive unless there is a war

Let me tell you something, when a joke is made of something you said or do on late night TV, it has made the mainstream. IDK how you could make a joke out of McCain continuously using the POW card though.

He keeps bringing up the POW issue to cover the fact he was such a lousy pilot.

Ok, I don't have the technical skill but, . .

The video opens with clips of several talking heads stating "He doesn't talk about being a POW."

Then cut to a McSame speech, with a counter in the lower right corner, every time he says "POW" there's a ding and the counter counts up.

Not that hard, to do

Grumpy: TPMtv did this video already... without the "counter" though. Just in the last few days. Check it out.

Thanks,

I'm such a hooser eh!

Well I have my drinking game.

McSurge's knee-jerk POW defense/deflection reveals his weak spot. McSturgis wants to be seen as a regular guy when if fact he has lived a life of privilege. All that he has was handed to him. His pappy got him into the academy. His wife's money bought him a Senate seat. He earned his image as a straight shooter though the MSM affirmative action program. The truth is, he is a phony. He is a cartoon. His worst nightmare is that people will start comparing his and Cindy's stories of privilege and entitlement to Obama and Michelle's stories of sacrifice and hard work. McSame knows that America loves an underdog and hates the spoiled rich kid.

...and now the Obama's are living the life of privilege. So what's your point?

BO is a cartoon as well. Even more so. I think McCain is way over the top on the Georgia / Russo thing -- enough to where I can't consider him anymore. With Biden, BO (the empty suit)is a little more digestible -- while unreasoned attack fanatics like you, are not. Didn't we get enough of this from the repugs?

I know the campaign needs to attack, but you sound like you think your man is the real thing for some reason. What has he done? I remember McCain speaking-up in 96 as our telecommunications infrastructure was being stolen form us(the people),and have admired him for doing so. Wish Obama would have shown the same guts on FISA. Oh well...Rah Rah Rah.

Watch what these creeps do. Who cares what they say.

Watch what you say about the "life of privilege." EVERYONE you support is living it as well.

I remember McCain speaking-up in 96 as our telecommunications infrastructure was being stolen form us(the people),and have admired him for doing so.

and you admire him for doing so because you seem to have forgotten or weren't really paying attention in the first place when right after he 'spoke-up' against it he turned right around and helped to make it happen. (just like obama did on FISA.)

mccain has no guts. he's a big fucking phony who tells people what they want to hear while pretending to be some sort of 'straight shooter'. he's a big fucking phony who's in the pocket of lobbyists while pretending to be some sort of 'maverick'.

he put his father-in-law's money together with his 'i was a pow' story and bought his way into senate. all he's ever had is his father-in-law's money and his 'i was a pow' story.

oh, and BO made his life of privilege AFTER he became politically prominent (last six years). What does that tell you? McCain married the money.

oh, and BO made his life of privilege AFTER he became politically prominent (last six years). What does that tell you?

it tells us that he sold a lot of fucking BOOKS, dummy.

McCain married the money.

...and used it to buy his way into the senate. what does that tell you?

Here's an alternative idea:

Hey, College students its the fun new election game!

When ever McSame is on TV pull out your favorite alcoholic beverage. Then every time McSame says POW or refers to being a POW take a shot, you'll be hammered in less that 15 minutes.

What a pathetic little twit!

What's next?

McCain to the Pro-Lifers:

"My friends, I know what it's like to spend five years curled in a fetal position."

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Probably because he has more than 7....maybe even more than 10,..just in the US. How many houses/condos do Cindy & John have elsewhere?,...that's where it gets juicy. I bet there're rapidly trying to get all the titles changed and put under some company name.

I would like to see a surrogate respond with the following to every "but I was POW" kneejerk response McCain gives:
Question: Your health care plan?
McCain: I didn't have health care for 5.5 years. In prison.
Follow-up: At least you can get health care now, unlike the 160 plus men who died when you wet started your plane on the Forrestal.
-----
Question: Who's money is it?
McCain: For 5.5 years, I didn't have any money, and Cindy's father achieved the American dream...
Follow-up: Unlike those 160 plus men who can no longer dream anything because you wet started your plane on the Forrestal.

You get the idea.

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I fear McCain is well on the way to becoming perceived in the public mind as a platinum blond celebrity bimpow.

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