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McCain: It's "Honorable" To Want To Lose The War In Iraq Out Of Political Ambition

Okay, that hed is an overstatement, but only a slight one. John McCain's double-talk on questions surrounding Obama's patriotism continued today, with McCain telling reporters that Obama is "very honorable"...

"This is a tough presidential campaign we're in," McCain said. "I have a very honorable opponent. There are stark differences between us."

As I argued in today's TPMtv episode and elsewhere, the press is giving McCain a pass on what we're now calling McCain's Patriotism Two-Step. The press is not really holding McCain accountable for the contradiction between his claims that he's not questioning Obama's commitment to his country and his assertions that plainly do just that.

Here you have a perfect example of this. McCain told a bunch of reporters today that he thinks Obama is "very honorable," suggesting that his criticism of Obama is confined to their "differences." So the follow-up question is obvious: Senator, how do you square the claim that Obama is "honorable" with your own assertion that Obama would rather lose the war than lose the presidential campaign and your own claim that Obama's Iraq policies are driven solely by "ambition"?

Who will ask McCain this obvious question?


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Why won't McCain admit he was wrong on a timeline for withdraw.

Both the Iraqis themselves and now the Bush admin agree to Obama's plan. The war is over. A sovereign Iraq will now carry on. Only Johnny McWar wants to keep fighting. (Fighting who or for what, it's unclear)

McWar is all alone in wanting to stay in Iraq forever. Why can't he just admit he was wrong?


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The Real McCain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxrPGFjOUYI


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"Conditions On The Ground" - is the phrase that the MSM lets McCain get away with to explain away his incredibly wrong stance. I guess it's no BBQ sauce off their chin if McCain's answer doesn't square with anything, they've got their quote and that's all that counts.

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That stupid expression is used for everything now, not just Iraq. It's tiresome.

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counter c

McCain; well its obvious the conditions on the ground now warrant a timeline.

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"Both the Iraqis themselves and now the Bush admin agree to Obama's plan. The war is over. A sovereign Iraq will now carry on."

Wrong, Obama's plan was pull out now, win or lose. Actually he wanted us out back in Janurary. Beat McCain up for his plan, but be honest about Barry's.

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SFCWallace,

McCain; Its obvious Bush and al Malaki are waving the white flag of surrender!

Barack's policy was/is to pressure the Iraqis to step up and take responsibility for their country. The way you do that is set a withdrawal deadline and let them know you are serious.

The McCain/Bush policy was/is to maintain an open-ended presence in Iraq with no ideas about when or if we will ever leave.

Iraq, and even Bush/McCain, have endorsed Barack's policy.

I know the truth is uncomfortable for you, but there it is.

Bush/McCain have endorsed Barack's policy without admitting that is what they have done.

"Honorable". HA! This is McDumbass trying to issue a passive-agressive bitch-slap to Obama. Transparent. Next.

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His answer will be simple, just like him.

Mr Cindy McCain: Well, let me (odd stomach noises from the candidate) have my people get back to you on that. (more noises, McCain turns to campaign aid and says quietely, "Tell Cindy I pooped my pants again.")

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It's up to the Obama campaign to highlight this now. Obama himself shouldn't, but surrogates should be populating the media highlighting this inherent contradiction.

We know the press won't do it, so will the Obama campaign?

http://strategy08.wordpress.com

I will not ask that qustion.

- Mark Halperin

http://pufferfish.typepad.com/

LOL.

The Doublespeak Express!

Nailed it!

So is there ever going to be a point when the MSM confronts McCain with the gigantic disconnect between his "stay in til we win a Mighty Victory over the Soviets, er, Iranian-backed Sunni militants, er whoever the hell it is we're in an existential struggle with this week" and the reality that Condi and Dubya are basically working out the details of the withdrawal plan Obama has been advocating for two years with the Iraqi government as we speak? Is that too much to ask?

I guess at some point, Obama will force them to do so by pointing out in a commercial, but it really would be nice if the Talking Hairdos would, just this once, point out why McCain is talking like a kook on their own.

Yeah, I thought the "transcendent struggle of the 21st century" was against Islamic radicals.

Now it's Cold War II.

Oh, and then there's Iran.

Basically, McCain's FP comes down to this:

BIG WARS

We've gotta have some big war with someone, some massive, generation long twilight struggle against some dastardly enemy, or else we don't exist.

Senator, how do you square the claim that Obama is "honorable" with your own assertion that Obama would rather lose the war than lose the presidential campaign and your own claim that Obama's Iraq policies are driven solely by "ambition"?
McCain's Response (Paraphrase)"Because he does not understand what is at stake in Iraq. He does not understand the cost of failure in Iraq. This isn't about his honor or patriotism, it's about his ignorance. I'm saying that he's too stupid to understand what we have it stake there. I didn't want to be crass, but you made me do it."

That's been his response almost every time. He's a honorable, patritotic, but dumb man.

Another thing... is honorable for McCain to try to reach the Hispanic community by the endorsement of Daddy Yankee? Honestly.

OMG! From The Caucus at the NYT:

"Afterwards, Mr. McCain took Daddy Yankee on his plane, which is headed to Sacramento. He said that he had met Mr. McCain when they both named to Time’s 100 most influential list a couple of years ago. Asked on the plane what “Gasolina” is about, he smiled and said, “Energy independence.”

Gasolina lyrics translated:

http://news.insearchofchicas.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-4273.html

I give you a hint: The song is not about energy independence.

This is a gift to the Obama camp. Someone, please, tell them. Spread the word.

McCain: Le gusta la gasolina!

The absolutely disgusting appearance today -- at a HIGH SCHOOL, no less (is that the kind of garbage McCain thinks kids should listen to?!!?!?!?) -- was caught IN FULL by c-span.

This IS a gift to Obama.

Sen. John McCain Rally with Musician Daddy Yankee Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) held a rally at the Central High School in Phoenix, AZ. During the rally, his supporter Daddy Yankee, reggaeton recording artist, spoke to the audience. Today : Phoenix, AZ

Gasolina is slang for, sorry to print this, but male sexual, *ahem* excretions...

I cannot believe McCain did this.

Obama has to hit this hard, esp given the fact that he has two daughters. Maybe an ad with Michelle talking about their daughters?

Meant to add this link too from wapo.

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As an aside, I was just listening to the radio and the station I was listening to has an ABC "News" update every so often. These updates are always crappy sound bites. Today's crappy sound bite was interesting. It was Jake Tapper talking about Biden wasting no time on hitting McCain on being out of touch because of all of the homes he owns. Then he says, "The McCain camp responded by saying that John McCain was a POW." His voice dripping with snark.

What example will Obama use to prove his patriotism?

His service in the military?
His Indonesian passport used to visit Pakistan?
His association with Rev. Wright?
His wife's comment regarding her lack of pride in this country?
His African father and Indonesian upbringing?
His lack of charitable contributions?

What does he have that demonstrates his patriotism other than carefully scripted but meaningless words and political oppotunism.

He has nothing.

Wow, you're still here?

You are so funny.

Thanks.

I like The Residents too.

Now, talk to the avatar.

But, do you like La Gasolina?

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I think you missed a couple of RNC talkingpoints:

His association with Ayers?
His association with Rezko?
His having a middle name of Hussein?
His vacationing in Hawaii?

Do you have enough points for that McCain golf umbrella yet?

One question: Who let you in?

I'm the bouncer a the velvet rope. Careful or you're 86ed.

No, you're not. Get back to the end of the line.

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fogu,

why does Obama have to "prove" his Patriotism?

If we're going to start asking politicians to prove their Patriotism it will be a fun game.

Can I be the judge? Ronald Reagan, prove your patriotism! You're next Newt. Cheney?

OH, that's right, they all wore flag lapel pins.

"Patriotism, the last bastion of the scoundrel."

Samuel Johnson

Johnson should have added; "....and hypocritical Republican demagogues."

The first one on top of my head: The choice to do community service rather than go for the big bucks.

And how does Clinton prove her patriotism, having not served in the military herself?

So is there ever going to be a point when the MSM confronts McCain...


In a word, No.

The McCain camp has carefully created the POW-war hero mythology about this guy such that the Media is loathe to even appear to be questioning it. The rightwingers are brilliant at pushing a pumped up story whihc also emasculates the other side from responding to it honestly. They understand that a particularly American hubris and hyper-patriotism won't allow it.

And it's going to get their guy elected. Once the Media jumps on Obama's "friendship" with a '60s radical terrorist, it will be all but over. The right knows they have to make it clear to the voters (in a foggy sort of way!) that the choice will be between a POW-war hero-maverick and a black, elitist, terrorist-loving "muslim".

And the Meda will help convey that message.

McCain's overplaying the POW card and that has opened the door to MSM criticizing his use of the POW identity. He has effectively desensitized the media and the public by inappropriately raising it. We've already seen several journalists pointing this out. I don't think questioning his political exploitation of his ex-POW status if off limits anymore.

Maureen Dowd's column in the NYT yesterday gives the issue legs. No matter what you think of Dowd, or the NYT, for that matter, what they print DOES get attention paid to it.

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the Walrus;

McCain; Friends, and I hope I can call you my friends, and I think I can, have I ever told you about my experience as a POW in Vietnam?

McCain, low aside to his aide; Psst, Cue The Battle Hymn of the Republic, and get those flags up.

Has Obama ever come out and said that The whole Iraq war is a failure - before, during and if McGaffe is the president, a failure forever more.

If this schuck weren't the son of privelage, he'd be a schmuck who wasn't the son of privelage.

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An interesting note, I was in a waiting room in a doctors office when an older black gentleman in a wheelchair asked my what I thought of the election. I told him I thought Obama was going to win and asked him who he was supporting. He told me McCain and said that Obama was too young to be POTUS.

Of all of the dynamics of this election, I find the relationship between Obama and the boomers and older the most interesting. It must feel like for many of them that by voting for Obama they are relinquishing their own authority, dominance, and relevance. Tough stuff

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In my family, the boomers, including my ex-spouse and her husband, my wife and me are all strong Obama supporters. Our son and his wife support McCain. My son's mother and I are still trying to figure out where we went wrong.

Too much liberalism in the household, causing the young 'uns to revolt...
I might have the opposite problem. My dad, who's visiting from India, has been a Bushie, but even more so now, after I keep pointing out where McCain is wrong. And he insists on watching Fox Noise. Thankfully, he can't vote (I can't either, but as a resident alien I can contribute!)

I hope you're considering applying for US citizenship.

Patriotism is the last vestige of a scoundrel.
-- Samuel Johnson. BTW, fogu2, I've always wondered what to do with American flags on toothpicks that are sometimes served as adornments for cocktail snacks. Who is the more unpatriotic? The person who serves them, knowing they will be thrown away, or the person who throws them away?

The answer is to not order those things. You're already too fat.

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On that note, what about all those who buy American Flag stickers, magnets, car flags, etc. that are Made in China? Are they still patriots?

I always try to buy American-made products because I think it is the least I can do for my country. I love America and I am a Democrat.

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I have no doubt that you do. I mentioned it because I've always found it amusing that those who feel a need to announce their "patriotism" to the world do so with products made in China.

As a running joke, I ask my 10 year-old daughter whenever I see someone with one those American car-flags violently flapping by: "they have an American flag on their car so they must be more patriotic than those that don't have any, right?". To which she replies: "Daddy, just because they have a flag on their car, it doesn't mean that they're more patriotic than anyone else". Apparently the same goes for those that have 2 flags versus 1.

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counter c;

My criteria for wearing flag lapel pins;

A 1 Flag pin if you've never served in the military.

A 2 Flag Pin if you've served but were never in combat.

A 3 Flag Pin for those who served and saw combat.

That'll separate the wheat from the chaff. :-)

fyi: . . . "last refuge of the scoundrel" I believe. But for fogu2 it is the first and last.

Thank you. I wasn't sure about the exact wording, but I sent it anyway because I wanted to get it out quickly.

Don't forget, "patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." (Oscar Wilde)

McCain is treading a fine line and the media is going to let him because they agree with the opinion. The "lose the war to win the election" attack isn't about Obama's love of country, it's about Obama's love of self. Going after the patriotism implication in the attack won't work because most people can understand McCain's juvenile parsing.

The solution is clear: Obama must demonstrate that he doesn't in fact love himself. At the next press conference Obama must throw himself under the bus.

Now, McCain; it's already spelled out for McCain. He's allowed to love himself and wallow in his ambition.

McCain for President: Because it's on His To Do List

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I love it!

McCain for President: Because it's on His To Do List

Wouldn't want it as a bumper sticker though, because some people only read the first part

Too bad McCain's behavior has become less than honorable. Seriously, why do I feel like he is some kind of robot droid exchanged for the 'real' McCain?

There never was a "Real McCain"; he gave the press unprecedented access in 2000 and fed them his BS. The perceived Maverick is anything but. He is and always has been a right wing idealogue. And don't get me started on his still fighting the Vietnam war.

And Brutus is an "honorable man" said Marc Antony as he stirred up the Roman masses to kill Brutus and Cassius.

YEah it might be really refreshing to hear the media for once put the American public first instead of the horse-race. I mean seriously how can McCain say that Obama is a patriot if he would gladly lose a war for politcal expediance? I thought we were looking for a new more honest style of leadership in America, no matter which party it comes from? John McCain is simply calling Obama a politician who is only interested in getting elected rather than being a leader, and is also stating that he would throw Americans under the "bus" for his own politcal purposes! It's treasonous! The only person trying to use political expediance is McCain, who is trying to have his cake and eat it too. It is totally disingenious for his campaign to blame their nasty rhetoric on the sad political environment whihc exists for Republicans currently. Isn't that political expedience?

McCains campaign is exactly what it is and has been ever since it stumbled out of the gates during the Republican primary, riding the image of John as a victim of the Vietnamese War, which the warmongers and chiefs during the 60's encouraged, and a symbol of America put right with his return to the US and his rise as a US Congressman. I am not trying to denigrate the guy but I believe that to many who lived during the 60's and 70's and served during the time have a palpable relationship with the cultural divide that existed then. My father rose from that generation and still holds a grudge against the people who protested that war and the returning troops. Since i was not there all I can say is that the accounts of troops being denigrated upon their return are vastly overstated when compared against the protest that arose to directly meet the warmongers head on and those institutions who did not treat all the returning veterans fairly or equally. Nonetheless, the emotions still seem palpable. Also McCain is counting on the votes from many Americans who harbor doubts about certain goverment institutions ability to identify and solve the issues of poverty. He latches on to the belief that private industry can solve the poverty issue (although it is interesting to see that many conservatives fail to rail against the money spent abroad fighting poverty) and that any many of our institutions gove free handouts. As an aside does anyone know a personally anyone who would fit this discription because from my perpsective many of the handouts I see are to private contratcors in the defense industry, to wall-street bankers who made bad policy in terms of the fiduciary responsability in signing on to loans, and to the wealthiest Americans who we have just found out to have been using companies like UBS (phil Gramm) to help them avoid paying taxes!

I love it when you guys get a burr up your ass. Stick with this and point out every goddamn time the press lets McCain gets away with his BS. Love it, great job.

Surely someone is sharp enough to work up an ad or some such that even with all his elite houses and such isn't it odd that he is sacrificing his all,, not to mention his country's welfare, just to end up living in government housing?

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There is no question in my mind that Biden will SHRED McCain once the campaigning starts. Biden always wanted to be President and fought hard to be the VP.

Plus Biden LOVES the fight.

There is no question in my mind that Biden will SHRED McCain once the campaigning starts.

Huh? There are but 10 short weeks left. I doubt Biden will "shred" McCain's impenetrable wall of POW-ness. And that, frankly, is all he's got going for him.

He'll shred Mittens, if he's Johnny's Veep pick.

Biden already did it by osmosis

Noun - Verb - POW

Biden tagged rudi with a different version of that line

and when mcsame jumped the shark, EVERYFUCKINGBODY on the innertubes had the same snarky remark


Noun - Verb - POW

call it a "Two-Fer"

Biden ROCKS

There you go again, complaining about media treatment. Get over it!
Take the McCain complement at his word. McCain considers Obama's service to be honorable and Obama returns the favor. Nuff said.

Now get back to how McCain has proven himself to lack judgment in foreign policy. Worse, he has used a real foreign policy crisis for political gain, following the lead of his advisor who is in the pay of a foreign government.

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I understood they did ask that question...or close to it. McCain's response was, "I'm not questioning his patriotism...I'm questioning his judgment..."

McCain is acting like there's a difference when clearly he IS questioning his patriotism and this is the fact that should be pointed out to... "McCain".

Claiming he would rather see our country defeated clearly attacks both patriotism and judgment but McCain says it only questions his judgment. This is what reporters should be calling him out on, that there is no difference in his assertions of unpatriotic bad judgments. Just saying...that is how McCain white washes his attacks on Obama's patriotism.

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btw...I would just as soon Obama did not pander for conservative votes by catering to the conservative agenda. It's time for conservatives to become more liberal out of the necessity to ensure our democracy continues as a nation with liberty for all.

Conservatives must see that their policies have painted them into a corner and that government efficiency rather than privatization is the path out of that corner.

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Truman said I'm not giving them hell...I tell them the truth and it seems like hell.

I don't want a smack down wrestling match for a political campaign. I hope Biden just points out the truth about McCain and McCain's attacks. I don't want a tough guy contest on who is more willing to spill blood or threaten other countries or who can be toughest on Russia and get the cold war started again with bellicose rhetoric.

Already Biden has refused to jump in on the tough guy contest with McCain on Iran insisting we need to talk with Iran...good for him. A real tough guy doesn't have to act or talk tough...his confidence in knowing he is tough shines through even as he talks of peace. That's the Biden I want to see, not a barking dog.

Biden's intelligence is so far superior to McCain's . . . He doesn't have to resort to tough guy pissing contests. He can bring McCain to his knees as quickly as he did Giuliani without breaking a sweat.

I'm actually starting to feel a little empathy for the McCain campaign, now that Biden's on board. Obama can stay the High Road, and Biden--using nothing but the truth and his wit--can put nails in the tires of the Doubletalk Express.

I hope McCain has AAA road service.

McCain will answer the usual..

Why did you cheat on your wife? Because I was a POW.
I don't know much about the economy. because I was a POW.
I cannot distinguished between a Shia and A sunni - because I was a POW
How many houses do you have? I don't know because I was a POW.


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