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McCain Camp's Debate Response: Our Town-Hall Proposal Is "Beneath A Worldwide Celebrity"
Here's the McCain campaign's response to Camp Obama's acceptance today of the four-debate framework put forth by the Commission on Presidential Debates, complete with the obligatory reference to Obama as a "celebrity":
"John McCain looks forward to debating Barack Obama as often as possible, but it's disappointing that Senator Obama has refused his offer to do joint town hall meetings. We understand it might be beneath a worldwide celebrity of Barack Obama's magnitude to appear at town hall meetings alongside John McCain and directly answer questions from the American people, but we hope he'll reconsider. The American people expect and deserve no less. Unfortunately, it appears that Barack Obama's tough-guy talk on 'duels' this week was just more empty words. Americans are quickly coming to the conclusion that it's better to look at what Barack Obama actually does and not listen to what he says."
Nothing on whether the McCain camp accepts the Commission's proposal.
Meanwhile, a Deluxe TPM Lava Lamp to the first reader who can find the most recent McCain statement that didn't have the now-apparently-constant "celebrity" sneer...
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Good lord... Team McCain is like a group of middle school Mean Girls.
August 2, 2008 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain is on the path to a mental breakdown. I predict it will happen before the end of this month.
August 2, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
An excerpt from Garrison Keillor's column on the Salon.COM web site:
August 2, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
At best McCain is getting his base worked up so he can he can close the "enthusiasm gap." But this will in no way make the independents/moderate conservatives who are still undecided move over to McCain.
August 2, 2008 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, two of my most favorite things in the world: making fun of McCain and Garrison Keillor.
August 2, 2008 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Enjoy yourself. If Obama's numbers keep declining he is going to be begging McCain to debate.
Actually Obama's campaign probably made the right call in refusing to debate. The debates hurt him in his race against Hillary. He's not good when not scripted.
August 4, 2008 9:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. Is this for real? I'm speechless.
August 2, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Me too. How inane.
August 3, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
We can't call them school girls anymore. Lieberman went on Meet the Press and assured everyone that McCain is all MALE!
And I think ass-kissing Joe ought to know!
August 4, 2008 10:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's become clear that McCain and his campaign are incapable of talking about anything without taking a shot at Obama. It's beyond repulsive.
August 2, 2008 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Correct, and further, McCain is lying down in the bedbug infested bed with the people who created that VERY nasty campaign ad about McCain's adopted "black" daughter. Southern "black" states, Arizona mcCainiacs and it was so diespicable I would not let mu grandchildren read such a disgusting thing. then, but behold, the GOP national leadership followed that disgusting episode with the anti-Ford ad with Ford and a white woman who was seductively inviting Ford. Though his picture may be more subtle than the anti Ford ad. Still i guess associating Obama with the Jewry of our county seems totally disingenuous of McCain. McCain knew we would get his sad, disgusting racist ad for exactly meant to do that, make white women fearful of electing a black President. On the other hand, that ad was suggestive that somehow or rather, Obama was tied to two young women, all young enough to be his daughter and decidedly white. As far as the really stupid attempt to align Obama with Moses, who would not vote for someone who embodied the heart and fairness of Moses. Jews are getting their ire up at McCain because of his race baiting in the first instance and then involving one of their most revered and kind patriarch, Moses. McCain needs to fire his media folks. They lose votes for McCain every time they think up some really stupid garbage like this that only demeans his candidacy. And to think, tonight he even bragged about the comment.. He is so pathetic that he does not even get it. His handlers seem to be in in total charge of his election and even Bush assigning Rove to assist McCain is a stupid move. Imagine with Rove facing contempt sanctions, McCain still listens to the bandit.
August 3, 2008 1:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think John McCain needs an intervention. He is becoming obsessed with Obama and its affecting his judgement. He is also putting on full display his "jealousy".
August 2, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
STOP PICKING ON MCCAIN
*sob*
~
August 2, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is central to my point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWSjUe0FyxQ
All you people want is more more more!
Leave McSame ALONE!
~
August 2, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bobbe Latte (see title in recommended posts at right) is right: McCain has become the meatspace equivalent of a rightwing internet troll.
And we all know how beloved and effective they are, don't we?
August 2, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seems that team McCain is going downhill pretty fast. Exactly who in the campaign thought these latest round of ads would play to the independents??? I would imagine that such ads would alienate the moderate and independent voter base that McCain and the Republicans would require to pull off even a half decent showing.
With Bob Barr and Ron Paul taking away the fiscal conservatives and Libertarians, looks like John is only going for the religous right....yeah this strategy is sound.
For the Republicans that are down ticket, be afraid be very very afraid.
August 2, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jon Stewart on Thursday played a clip of the McCain surrogate on GMA that morning - the illiteration used to skewer Obama (i.e "latte-drinking, limo-driven, liberal")
was christened as soemthing "arugula eating" blah blah yada yada.
It was hilarious.
OMG he eats arugula. and walk me through the mental jump that Obama is the marked one we are warned about in the book of revelations?
If ever we need proof that the gopers are totally INSANE and in need of a medical intervention, this is it folks.
August 2, 2008 10:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Listen, McCain's strategy is to paint Obama as a celebrity. His Ad has been running in NH all day long. Obama needs to find a way to counter that Ad.
August 2, 2008 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Obama should counter with an add that shows McStain speaking with no appreciable response, in half-empty town halls. Ask the viewer who is ready for the world stage, someone nobody cares to see, or someone the WORLD cares to see?
August 2, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about...
John McCain hosted "Saturday Night Live" and appeared as an actor on "24".
Is John McCain a member of the Screen Actors Guild?
Does he get residual checks from NBC and Fox?
August 3, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is just silly...
August 2, 2008 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know it is silly but that is the only strategy they've got. Obama's response to this Ad is tepid. He needs to be very aggressive with Mclame.
August 2, 2008 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
So your idea is that Obama responds to every little crappy thing that McCain says. So on Monday, Obama wants to talk about the jobs, but McCain campaign puts out another negative "celeb" ad/statement about. Obama needs to respond. On Tuesday, Obama wants to discuss gas prices, but McCain campaign puts up a negative Web Ad about Obama. Obama needs to respond. On Wednesday, Obama wants to discuss education, but McCain sends out a statement to their supporters saying Obama hates the troops. Obama needs to respond.
On Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Obama wants to talk about the real issues that Americans face everyday, but McCain continues to put out attack ads. Obama needs to respond.
As I've said before, it becomes a cycle, where more time is spent discussing the negative attacks than actual time used to let the American people who may actually be looking for a reason to vote for Obama (not the ones who never planned to vote for Obama, let alone any democrat) what is is Obama wants to do for America.
August 2, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
He shouldn't "respond to" the McLame ads... he should put out his own ads to get the media talking about them. And sorry, but they have to be negative. Truthfully negative, but negative.
Like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyBwMy27Aoc
String a few like that together. Limited ad buys.
Not that hard. It's not like there's a lack of material.
There is a danger: the new media narrative could become "Obama said he wasn't going to go negative, now he is." But of course McLame said that too.
Not that any of that matters to the corporate media.
It could, however, get the ads the same free airtime the McSame ads have been getting.
August 4, 2008 2:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Someone please take a shotgun to this zombie of a news story.
August 2, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wanna go quail hunting?
August 2, 2008 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Calling Dick Cheney......
August 3, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
What an embarrassingly silly response. Maybe they should have pull out the ol' "triple dog dare" next time...
August 2, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's really just pathetic.
August 2, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Everyday that McCain and company spend on this drivel and not on the economic issues that families of rust belt are facing is a day that Obama takes a step toward being President
August 2, 2008 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Town hall-style debates are below Obama.
Traditional-style debates are above McCain. He can't handle them. Bends under the pressure.
McCain is just pissy because he didn't get what he wanted. But I don't know why he's such a cry-baby about it. Obama took him up on his challenge to go overseas to Iraq, and it blew up in his face. Why does he want to continue to make himself look like a total jackass?
If I were McCain, I'd let it go and spend the next month or so preparing day-and-night for the debates with Obama. I'd know I was going to get my ass handed to me on a silver platter. Silver... How elitist!
August 2, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Town hall meetings are a joke. I saw the clip from one where the young girl asked whether McCain would raise taxes, then she 'sat' on her mother's lap ?! Yes, that is really serious debating. It made me laugh, so there is some humor to them.
August 3, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Reading the comments here, I'm saddened once again to be reminded of the chasm between the latte drinkers over here and the bitter gun-loving workers watching the Britney ads in their homes all day all.
August 2, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I had a chai latte the other day. It was damn good.
August 2, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yesterday I split my latte on my $500 Ferragamo loafers. Damn, I was pissed.
August 2, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
How do you split a latte? Must some fancy French thing...
August 2, 2008 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gah. You got me! haha
August 2, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
what's a chai?
i was just playing with my gun today, shot a few rats, nothing too exciting. still feelin kinda bitter, with gas prices and all.
that Paris is girl is HOTTT! probably just an airhead, but man, nice rack!
August 2, 2008 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
"What's a chai," he says.
Man, oh man.
August 2, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey take it easy. Not everyone mingles with celebrities for a living you know
August 2, 2008 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, just so's we're all clear, who's side are you one, these days, exactly?
August 2, 2008 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm on my side. I have no horse left in this race.
I dislike them both a lot, so it's fun to watch Obama's ass whipped like a schoolboy.
I keep waiting for a knock-out counterpunch but it's not coming, do you know why?
August 2, 2008 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, ideally who would like to be President?
August 2, 2008 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Personally, I think Angelina Jolie should be President. She would adopt all of the Iraqis so they will become Americans like us. So peace and end of war right there. And she's a dragon slayer. And she's HOTTT!
August 2, 2008 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
No thanks.
August 2, 2008 7:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Come on, this is the fastet way to solve the energy crisis too, will the children ever refuse to provide it for free??
And think about those lips on a dollar bill!
August 2, 2008 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think my made myself rather clear. =)
August 2, 2008 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure deep inside you like the idea. Why don't you sleep on it and we talk again tomorrow?
LOL
August 2, 2008 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. I don't like Angelina Jolie very much as an actress. Why would I support her for President?
August 2, 2008 7:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
What do you mean, why? She's a celebrity and she's HOTTT! Just think about what she can do for the country.
August 2, 2008 7:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
*yawn*
August 2, 2008 7:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
You do realize that being mindless is not the same as being irreverent?
August 2, 2008 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why don't you tell me why, at the same time you let me know the specific of your presidential preferences.
August 2, 2008 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
So if you like drinking a chai you have to mingle with celebrities? Just how closed-minded, culturally-repressed are you?
August 2, 2008 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know what you're talking about. I'm just an average Joe. I don't understand you windsurfers sometimes.
August 2, 2008 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I messed up and didn't hit the reply to Lalo35adm checkbox, so my reply is below, but my question to you is doing really think this country will be better off with McCain as the leader? Given the image you have chosen for your photo you are motivated more from an anti-Obama than a pro-McCain p.o.v.
August 2, 2008 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I do mingle with celebrities. ;D You ever seen The King of Queens? A few months ago I had lunch with Victor Williams, the actor who plays Deacon. I'm an elitist pig, that's for sure.
August 2, 2008 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, I can't afford the TV, man, I spent all my money on my gun. Can you donate something maybe?
August 2, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
So is it your gun what you're clinging to in these difficult time?
August 2, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't need a TV to watch The King of Queens. I'm sure you can find a website out there that lets you watch the show. So, sorry, you don't get to use that excuse this time.
I own a TV, but I don't have any channels (strictly for my DVDs). I spend too much money on my lattes to afford a luxury like cable or satellite.
August 2, 2008 7:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The computer and cable modem eatin' up all your cash, eh? Maybe it's that $800 Glock?
August 3, 2008 8:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
John McCain is a "kept" man. That man is so pitiful he actually was forced to signed a prenuptial agreement because his mistress "Cindy McCain" did not trust him with her money.
August 2, 2008 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
huh. i shot a gun the other day and had a latte. damn minnesotans!!!
August 2, 2008 6:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
"beneath a worldwide celebrity of Barack Obama's magnitude to appear at town hall meetings alongside John McCain and directly answer questions from the American people"
Someone call out McCain on this. Does McCain not now that Obama DOES hold town hall meetings? Most of his interactions are at town hall meetings. The only thing is that McCain isnt there. Last i checked those supposed "race card" comments were made... at town hall meetings!!
August 2, 2008 5:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's been doing at least two town halls a day since he came back from his overseas trip.
August 2, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, it's really daring to do town hall meetings with an adoring crowd fainting and swooning over your every word. "Obama, are you perfect?" "Obama, can I kiss you on the jaw?"
I think the town hall debates that McCain is talking about are ones where Obama might face slightly tougher questions than he gets at his personal appearances - I'm sorry, "town hall meetings" I believe you call them.
If Obama is so wonderful, so brilliant and McCain is so old and stupid, why on earth wouldn't Obama JUMP at the chance to do town halls with him? It's the obvious question. Any answer?
August 2, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because it gives McCain free airtime. The same reason Hillary wanted more debates.
Next question?
August 2, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, no, that doesn't answer the question.
So if Obama is running from the town hall format because he doesn't want to give McCain free airtime, then why isn't Obama running from the standard hackneyed old-politics "debates"? They give McCain free airtime as well. You know, the kind of debates where Obama and his staff can spend hours rehearsing questions and practicing responses, which he'll pretty much steer into no matter what the moderator asks.
August 2, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't hop on the Low Road Express. Tell the truth here.
Obama counter-proposed 2 town halls, instead of McCain's 10. McCain's advisers ridiculed the counter-proposal.
So, if McCain is so superior in town halls (as though Obama's never held one or taken hostile questions), why turn down the counter-proposal?
August 2, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because it was never about Town Hall meetings...as you probably know as well. I think they should play a game of 21...that's all I need to know to pick the next president.
August 3, 2008 9:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just off the top of my head...
(1) 10 town halls (which was the McCain proposal) means 10 free commercials for McCain. It's also 10 times for McCain to (a) co-opt Obama's proposals on various domestic items, (b) refine/flip his own positions, and (c) to draw audiences he couldn't dream of on his own.
(2) A basic rule of politics is that the candidate in worse shape wants more debates.
(3) Do you recall that the Obama campaign proposed 2 town halls in addition to the debate commission's 3 formal debates? This was their counter-proposal to the McCain 10-town-hall deal. McCain rejected the counter-proposal.
So, if McCain is so eager to have town halls, why reject the Obama counter-proposal?
August 2, 2008 8:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh so McCain has to either take Obama's offer of two (assuming he actually seriously made that offer) or none at all, huh? Our lord and master has spoken, and it shall be two?
It's Obama that's now rejecting any town halls, and only accepting the 3 standard "debates". If he really wanted to do town halls he could work something out with McCain. It was all just talk about how Obama said town halls would be great, and blah blah yeah I won't do 10 but I'll do 2, oh no, now I'm only going to do the 3 regular debates.
Has Obama ever been in a town hall format facing non-friendly questions? My impression is that it's not his style.
August 2, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ul8gPo4zwo&eurl
August 2, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain was the one who said "10 or nothing"; that would make him your "lord and master".
August 3, 2008 2:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why does Obama have to do 10 Town Halls or any at all? Do you honestly not know what their positions are? And if you don't...how can you post here with any educated opinion at all.
I really don't think Republicans want Town Halls for their educational merits. They think they can embarrass Obama. Hell, maybe they're right, but it's always been my experience if you're waiting for your opponent to make a mistake so you can win...you're screwed already.
August 3, 2008 9:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
The old fart's lookin to ride Britney all the way to the WH
August 2, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hear he's also coming out with a new ad comparing Obama to that hip-gyrating punk Elvis. Nor does the McCain campaign like this new fangled hipity-hoppity.
August 3, 2008 9:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
At this rate, we'll be seeing press releases from the McCain campaign that just say "Nyah, nyah, nyah!!!!" within a couple of weeks.
August 2, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
How many millions of Americans endorsed Obama during the primaries? How many millions more, once the contests were finished, threw in with the democratic nominee?
Obama need only drive home that glaringly obvious point to upend this latest GOP slander.
August 2, 2008 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ummm..... About the same number that supported McBush?
Listen, children. The Dear Leader's numbers have been slipping lately; His World Tour 2008 PR stunt did nothing but give more ammo to McBush.
August 3, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
That McCain camp press release is MORE than pathetic. It's unbelievably revealing. Can an entire campaign be emotionally ill? I think so. Astonishing, simply astonishing, that there's no one in that crew who sees what they're really telegraphing.
(Good times are a-comin', folks. Believe it! :-)
August 2, 2008 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pathetic is only word that can be used to describe this. I think it is good sign that the Obama camp is not freaking out about the 1% to 2% bump that McCain is getting from this. In the short and long run, this strategy will turn on McCain.
August 2, 2008 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
The part of me that worries (and has been doing a lot of that lately) fears that the McCain camp "gets" repetition. They're doing a good job of branding, something that takes repeating over and over. Something the Obama camp can take a page out of.
On the other hand, there is part of me that sees a backlash coming. A real one.
http://strategy08.wordpress.com
August 2, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
What kind of backlash do you predict? If you don't mind me asking. =)
August 2, 2008 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe, hopefully something along these lines?
http://www.newsweek.com/id/150477
August 2, 2008 7:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
His own mother denounced the ad? HAHA! That just makes his assertion that he's proud of it all the more hilarious. Thanks for that. =)
August 2, 2008 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would say "you're welcome", but quite frankly your avatar is kind of freaking me out.
August 2, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aw! Why is that? =(
August 2, 2008 8:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, maybe not me....but my six year old who was looking over my shoulder probably won't be sleeping much tonight. :-)
August 2, 2008 9:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, geez, I'm sorry. =(
It wouldn't be the first time I scared a little kid. I played The Devil in a play once, and this kid in the audience was so scared of me she was on the verge of tears. ...I had mixed feelings. On the one hand, I was proud of my performance. On the other, I felt bad for scaring the kid so badly. =\
August 2, 2008 9:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is it wrong that I laughed at your story? Actually, you probably did her a favor...you wouldn't want her feeling all warm and fuzzy about the devil now, would you?
Seriously, don't worry about my daughter. She's since moved on to Spongebob...
August 2, 2008 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, that was the intended effect. ;D
SpongeBob always helps, no matter how young or old!
August 2, 2008 10:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Heath avatar....it is kind of in your face in that small picture. Although I heard he did a bang up job in the movie.
August 3, 2008 11:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's probably one of the best performances I've seen this decade. And that's saying something. There have been some truly magnificent performances. I'm a huge movie buff... I really need to get my review-site up and working...
August 3, 2008 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have you seen Senator McCain's "dollar bill" web ad. This ad is definitely set-up to scare votes. Camp McCain puts Senator Obama's face on every American landmark including the DOLLAR Bill. You tell me, who was the first to injected race into campaign? The lack of research coming from writers and reports is frightening. I have yet to hear a peep or glimpse of McCain's "dollar bill" web ad among all the MSM discussion of Senator Obama saying, "he doesn't look like all those other presidents on the dollar bills" -- a direct reference to this ad. The McCain camp gets away without blemish when they said that Senator Obama “pull the race card from the bottom of the deck.” Check out the ad on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPARec32KMI
August 2, 2008 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope I live to see the day Obama is put on a dollar bill. It's just unfortunate that McCain will be long gone by the time that day would ever come.
August 2, 2008 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
God willing, it will be a long, long time before Barrack's eligible for the honor, but I'd be all for bumping Jackson's genocidal ass off the twenty for him when he is.
August 2, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn straight! Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!
August 2, 2008 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm right there with ya.
let's start something - the "ditch Jackson for Obama on the 20 movement."
August 2, 2008 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, of course Jackson hated Amerindians, but we could sure use some intelligent Jacksonian skepticism towards centralized banks.
Read Robert Remini (or Wikipedia) on the Bank War and tell me where you think Old Hickory would've stood viz. the IMF, predatory lending, credit card usury, etc.
August 2, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm hoping I see the day when Dubya is on the New Three Dollar Bill - as the saying goes... phony as.
August 2, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, that ad is indescribably disrespectful. Just how low are they going to go? A backlash has to be looming. That ad would put off anyone with the slightest shred of decency or self-respect.
August 3, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
"The American people expect and deserve no less. "
Yes, Senator McCain, the American people DO expect more. Yes, Senator McCain the DO deserve more---from you.
Senator, this is not the time for school yard taunts and double dares. Americans expect a whole lot more from their next president. The stakes are too high; our problems too serious.
Is this how you will deal with Ahmadinejad?
With taunts and dares?
Is this how you will deal with Bin Laden? With taunts and dares?
Is this how you will deal with Congress? With taunts and dares?
I am prepared to debate the issues with you on the national stage. THe question is are you ready?
August 2, 2008 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Bring it on!"
Heh...
August 3, 2008 9:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
I know I'm an out-of-touch elitist (and proud of it, quite frankly), but even I am stunned at the notion that some poll or focus group is telling them this is a good idea.
As for McCain and "regular people", didn't the McCains' bully their condo association into putting a rule in the convenants in their luxury building in Phoenix that no one may address A McCain unless Said McCain addresses them first?
August 2, 2008 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why do you think he's continuing this meme? I think this whole strategy for McCain to characterize Obama as a "celebrity" is a short and long term strategy. In the short term, it innoculates McCain from Obama's acceptance speech. In the long term, it's just a continuing narrative that he will attempt to build until the convention. I'm predicting he's going to have an ad focused on why Obama doesn't do town halls, saying it's "beneath him".
August 2, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
--I'm predicting he's going to have an ad focused on why Obama doesn't do town halls, saying it's "beneath him".--
Complete with footage of Obama at a townhall meeting. Idiots!
August 2, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, but the question is whether this will have any significant impact on the undecideds, or rather will their performance during the actual debates have the most impact on the outcome.
August 2, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I predict McOld is going to wet himself on the convention stage when he accepts his party's nomination.
August 2, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm. I guess that Depends™ on what he's wearing.
August 2, 2008 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama wants to stay in this, he's got to play the msm. He has to make ads tailored for the media regardless of whether they're successful or not. The main thing is that he has to ATTACK. Not defensive reaction. I've been hearing that he has something big come down the pike, but I have no idea what he has planned.
August 2, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well he better get it out before the Olympics - unless it is they Olympics ad.
I think the Olympic buy will be a waste of time unless he some how acquired the commercial break right before the Americans come into the stadium or right before the torch is lit.
Of course I now expect the McCain camp to attack his Olympic buy as "celebrity/ego" driven, and put out that he spend $5M on such ad package.
August 2, 2008 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hopefully the moderates, independents, and undecideds will tire of McCain's incessant petulant drivel. Dare I speculate, moreover hope, that they are independent thinkers who want relevant information from the candidates on which to base their final decision.
OMG, I think a juvenile eagle just landed on the fence outside my window. Wow! Off to Google eagles in FL.
August 2, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
If McCain had accepted Obama's offer of five debates, the first one would have taken place on July 4th.
I'm tired of these facts getting buried.
It's all about communication. (I've written a separate post regarding that.)
August 2, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK, I know that these are peevish, puerile complaints on McCain's part; he's a dick, yeah, that's obvious. But seeing as how this country re-elected a peevish dick in '04, what I want to know is, is this working? The national polls seem to suggest that it might be.
I mean, our guy supposedly knows all about 'Chicago-style' politics, whatever that means. I assume it implies some knowledge of hard-hitting below-the-belt style rhetoric. I'm just wondering when I can expect to see some of this gun-at-a-knife-fight stuff I keep hearing about. So far, he's been pretty much milquetoast.
August 2, 2008 6:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't know what I am talking about? oh freakin please. For the record, I've never windsurfed before, but that is..what do they say? oh yeah IRRELEVANT...which pretty much sums up McCain and his campaign at this point. If you disagree with Obama's policies okay, then spell it out, but to just be negative without offering some alternative is just being intellectually and politically lazy.
August 2, 2008 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn, man. Way to clearly spell it out. Kudos!
The problem with McCain's ad strategy is that it just attacks Obama. It has no contrast. It sums itself up as, "Obama is bad!" ... but then one is left wondering, "Ok, so why the hell are you good, Senator McCain?" He doesn't answer that question, and has yet to form a narrative of why he's the choice over Obama.
McCain is turning it into a game of "Pick me because he's worse" not "Pick me because I'm better" -- this is exactly what Hillary Clinton did in the Primary, and we all saw how that one turned out, didn't we?
August 2, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only response to this latest third-grade schoolyard taunt is for oppo research to tally up the number of town hall meetings Obama has held thus far vs the number McLame has held. My bet is Obama's had more of them. Then issue a press release with these facts and a statement that the American people are more concerned with how they're going to fill their gas tank and pay their mortgage than with the McCain campaign's silly juvenile stunts. And lastly, that a campaign that spends its time chattering about Britney and Paris instead of addressing the real problems and concerns of Americans not only insults the intelligence of the good-hearted, hard-working, apple-pie eating people of this country, but that anyone engaging in such activities and insults is really in no position to suggest that anyone else is "elitist".
Really. This is laughably easy to not only swat down, but to turn into a negative against them.
(If it was up to me to write the thing, that last sentence would instead read, "Who's elitist now, beyatch?")
August 2, 2008 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama countered with 5 town hall meetings. The only reason McStain wanted them in the first place is because he's still breaking the law on public financing and wanted to hitch a ride with Obama. McStain never counter offered. This tells me he don't know dick about negotiations. Just the kind of person we need to reach across the aisle and poke an eye out.
What a McLoser.
August 2, 2008 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rove 101, attack your opponents perceived strength.
Obama is popular, wildly so, therefore hit him with that. Epic fail. So they are saying, vote for the older, uglier, less popular guy who isn't in shape and would crack a hip if he tried to play 21 and who can only attack his opponent rather than offer his own plans?
McCain is well known to be a hot head, and he does not listen to advisers, which is why he is stupid enough to put his name on these ads so freely. At least the Swift Boaters were a completely separate entity of the actual Bush campaign.
Andrea freaking Mitchell of all people nailed it last week, saying these ads are very personally nasty and disrespectful, and McCain always crowed about running a respectful campaign.
August 2, 2008 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
The "worldwide celebrity" stuff is all over, and will be all over as long as it's working. Why do we Democrats always make fun of the Republicans as they begin the process of beating us? It's working, now how do we counter it? I say Obama gets tough, gets serious, pokes a little fun here and there, but I think he needs to give the feeling that he's rolled up his sleeves and he's working his ass off to gain the trust of the American people. He ain't gonna do that by mimicking the mocking of GOP silly stuff that we do on here, particularly when the stuff we mock is apparently effective.
August 2, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
This "celebrity" meme I"m sorry will beocme tedious. In fact, it has already become tedious.
I"m of the school that Obama shouldn't respond to every ad that McCain puts out. As I said upthread:
...Obama responds to every little crappy thing that McCain says. So on Monday, Obama wants to talk about the jobs, but McCain campaign puts out another negative "celeb" ad/statement. Obama needs to respond. On Tuesday, Obama wants to discuss gas prices, but McCain campaign puts up a negative Web Ad about Obama. Obama needs to respond. On Wednesday, Obama wants to discuss education, but McCain sends out a statement to their supporters saying Obama hates the troops. Obama needs to respond.
On Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Obama wants to talk about the real issues that Americans face everyday, but McCain continues to put out attack ads. Obama needs to respond.
As I've said before, it becomes a cycle, where more time is spent discussing the negative attacks than actual time used to let the American people who may actually be looking for a reason to vote for Obama (not the ones who never planned to vote for Obama, let alone any democrat) what is is Obama wants to do for America.
August 2, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
O such scorn - and McLame and his people look like crabby old men. It's like they are going out of their ways to look like crabby old men.
August 2, 2008 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
It would seem that they're betting on people thinking that crabby old men are patrotic crabby old men who served in the big WW2.
August 2, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know why the Obama campaign didn't learn from their experience against Clinton. She showed the way to defeat him, too late for her, but she effectively put his weaknesssout out there. It was inevitable he'd be vulnerable to racism so the cockiness was never warranted, but his real failure is his inability to connect with Americans on the economy.
You need something more than "change" and "hope" to connect with middle-aged and older voters who need jobs, mortgages, and a financial future with some predictability. You need to demonstrate some passion to deliver. Too much cool. Too little heat.
But I don't blame it all on him by any means. The Democratic Congress has been pathetic. They haven't given the guy a thing to run on and not the slightest evidence that they'll be more capable governing than the Republicans.
August 2, 2008 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Barry Hussein is a wuss and Drama Queen. Can't take on the old man? Maybe Jessie cut off the golden jewels.
Barry Obama, your 15 minutes are up. Time to move on the German Chancellor. Have a campaign rally in Berlin (not in the USA, Barry).
McCain/Hillary 2008! DRILL NOW!
August 2, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay I'll bite...so you think that opening offshore drilling will increase our math scores amongst our secondary students and put an end to the home foreclosures?
August 2, 2008 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who's to blame for home foreclosures? The fools that don't realize they can't afford the home. The Government who bails out the fools and banks. The credit card companies who give these morons plastic with crazy limits. The trash that spends it like they never have to pay it back. Of course, Barry voted against ANY interest limit on credit cards.
How about parents being responsible for their children? What about saying having children out of wedlock is bad...John Edwards. How about not providing medical service to those who use the ER as doctor's office.
Maybe Barry Hussein can decide what he wants to do with drilling? John Kerry's got nothing on Barry. FLIP-FLOP-LIE and the stupid young blind fools follow (and old hippies).
August 2, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, the first question is where the Repubs were in all of this. But, yes, there is a personal responsibility issue involved here, but in the end sitting back and doing nothing while all a huge portion of Americans lose their homes to financial institutions in a tanking housing market is against one's own self interest.
This all relates to a a lot of complex interrelated issues, yet in the end we all in this together, as much as those who would like to live in a everyone-is-on-their-own world would like to believe otherwise. If people are under-educated and willing to get into involved in risky home loans, then this is all of our fault.
August 2, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Smart post.
August 2, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess you're just like robotboy and lalo35adm in that as soon as the discuss actually focuses on the issues, you just disappear.
August 2, 2008 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Honey, you need to DRILL a hole in your head right NOW and get all that bad shit out of there.
August 2, 2008 7:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
No troll feeding, Tena!
August 2, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let me ask you something - there were 3 replies - why did you pick me?
August 2, 2008 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tena: Because you have the best looking avatar :)
August 3, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
Marginal Player, what an appropriate name you have chosen.
McCain Hillary 08 you say? Are you one of Larry Johnson's wayward children?
August 2, 2008 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
It would seem that Marginal Player is another one that can actually debate the issues and as soon as real issues are brought up disappears.
August 2, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you trying to seem like a joke? Honestly, thanks for that. Laughing is healthy.
August 2, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
It may seem like a joke that McSame is focusing on Obama's celebrity, but what the core message is that Obama is uppity. He's uppity and he screws blonde white women. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of the Turd Blossom's dog whistling here.
August 2, 2008 7:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
It'll work with the 20%+ of the population that think George W. is doing a fine job but they would vote for McCain over any Democrat. But is this message in any significant way effective with the undecided independents/moderate repubs?
August 2, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep.
This is not 2004. Barrack Obamais not John Kerry.
And David Plouffe is not Terry McAuliffe.
August 2, 2008 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that's what he's saying, but I totally disagree with your assessment of its effectiveness.
August 2, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Call me crazy, but I suspect that well more than 20% of the white population -- regardless of whether they would admit it to themselves -- would be uncomfortable with the idea of their daughter screwing a black guy, let alone with the idea of a cocky black guy in their office or in their neighborhood who was more successful than they.
August 2, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Although I've only seen this discussion after the fact, I'm curious what percentage of the white population you think will vote their, according to you, latent racist fears and against their own economic interests.
I'm also curious what you think people's alleged revulsion at their daughters' marrying a black man has to do with Obama.
Fascinating pathology.
August 3, 2008 9:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is no great revelation: getting people to vote against their economic interests by stirring up racial animosity is a Republican Party tradition, one that has brought them a lot of success. I like to think that this is a better country that it used to be, that people (especially younger ones) are fairer and less prone to be attracted to racist tactics, but that doesn't mean that Nixonianism doesn't work.
People's racial attitudes have an enormous impact on Obama's candidacy. How can this be news to you?
August 3, 2008 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
You misread my reply. I'm not ignorant of people voting their racist stereotypical fears against their economic interests, as opposed say their religious bigot fears, or their sexual preference fears. I understand demagoguing.
I asked what percentage of the probable voters do you think this appeals to? Or conversely, do you believe this country is predominantly racist and will vote for McCain because they believe this shite in his ads?
August 3, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
How can one possibly put a percentage on this? There's no way to quantify this. How many people would honestly answer a poll that plumbed their racial attitudes? But it's not a stretch to say that there's a significant population out there that can be manipulated with this propaganda campaign. As you may recall, Harold Ford lost an election to a terrible scandal-ridden candidate because of a similar ad campaign.
Is this country predominantly racist? Well, any student of American History knows race is a central organizing theme to any credible narrative of US history. I don't know about you, but I think racism is endemic to our society.
Rove & co. launch these expensive ad campaigns because they're good investments. They're not guessing. They have their focus groups.
August 3, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, of course, any student of American history knows the significance of race from the decimation of the indigenous people to the importation of slaves and on through the years. No question. Why do you keep responding as if you think I don't "get it".
The question is simple: do you believe that more Americans in 2008 will vote against Obama because of whatever shite McCain throws against the wall about Obama's race, "dog whistle" or overt, than will vote for him because of his positive attributes?
I think, clearly, that you do believe this, while I see the majority, however slight it is, overcoming this racist past generationally.
Now, does that mean, I think racism is gone? Hardly. There's a boatload of white Republicans, conservative Dems, Aryan Supremacists and white power advocates who are teaching their kids to hate "the Other".
You seem to suggest that there are millions of fence sitters who will be convinced by these ads that maybe they were wrong in considering Obama, not for his policy differences with McCain, but because he is black.
I see the glass as half full.
August 4, 2008 9:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
After rereading: to be fair, there are racists besides white racists as well, but their contributions to our national history pale in comparison.
August 4, 2008 10:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
You're asking a simple question out of an issue which is incredibly complex. There are so many degrees of racism, each with its own murky tipping point, and each with an undefined population, that it's impossible to predict whether these tactics will work. What I do know for certain is that McSame's ad campaign is not a joke.
I'm glad you think the glass is half full. My guess is that Obama will win, but I wouldn't bet the house on it.
August 4, 2008 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
The older generation might get that, but younger voters won't. The ad ran (or maybe it was being discussed in the media) when I was at my parents' house the other night, and they got it right away. I think it will go right over a lot of people's heads.
August 2, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I will, because it's only effective in the very short term. People wake up to these things. If he's trying to paint a picture then it's going to get really lost in the news of VP announcements, conventions and debates. The problem is, McCain has been trying for months to find a narrative that sticks. He can't seem to decide what to say. Obama has been consistent with his message for over a year, and that's going to pay off big time, because McCain's narrative is going to get lost whereas Obama's survives because it's already been battle-tested for months on end.
McCain is grasping at straws and he knows it.
August 2, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am telling you folks that people do not give a rats ass about the "celebrity" bullshit.
Believe it or not, people are realing hurting.
Furthermore, according to Politico the first "political celebrity" is John McCain. Perhaps the bitch is protesting too much. He is such a diva.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12260.html
August 2, 2008 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly so - they are. The economy is lurching around like a crippled cow.
People do not give one shit about whether or not McLame thinks Obama is a celebrity.
People want answers and solutions for the problems that they are staring at - like $5 a gallon gasoline and a dollar that is worth less than Canadian birdspit.
August 2, 2008 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the celebrity charge may be more damaging than the appeal to racism. I don't think Americans want any distractions on race. They want action on serious problems. He's got to show them substance and constrast substance with the shenanigans of the Republicans.
August 2, 2008 7:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
He is doing this. Check out his talk in Iowa about utilizing the federal gov to improve the power grid in such a way to leverage American production of electric cars.
August 2, 2008 7:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
If your avatar is a picture of you, you are a dead ringer for Tim Roth.
August 2, 2008 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
(unfortunately) it's a photo of Albert Camus, not myself, but Roth is good soul to carry on the spirit (i.e. Rozencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead, which, times being what they are, a play that brillantly speaks to the situation we are experiencing today)
August 2, 2008 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love that play and that movie.
The picture is small - and he sure looks like Roth to me there.
I'm not sure I've seen many pictures of Camus. I know what Sartre looked like, and he didn't look like anyone except Sartre. And that is a good thing.
;)
August 2, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain and Company are working off the thought expressed by the Player: "Audiences know what to expect, and that is all that they are prepared to believe in."
August 2, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anybody know how the recent McCain ads have been received by the wingnutosphere? I'm curious but can't force myself to visit the dark side.
August 2, 2008 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't go over there - not since about 2003 when a bunch of us went over to Squeaky's joint and did a mass troll.
I just felt so dirty afterward, I've never been able to go back.
August 2, 2008 8:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Check out the link to the latest McCain web ad on the TPM main page: Now it's that Obama doesn't care about Hispanics.
You can tell how "down" John McCain is with Hispanics by the Latin beat and maracas in the background music.
August 2, 2008 8:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Next McCain will have a web ad in which Obama doesn't care about African-Americans.
August 2, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
That would make McSense.
August 2, 2008 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh man, I certainly hope so.
August 2, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama cares only about himself. He'd throw the black community under the bus just as quickly as everyone else when the need arises. Even now they are in his way. What is the black community, who in almost lock-step gave him over 90% support, going to do? Vote for McCain?!
Then again, not too late for cooler heads to prevail and for the delegates in Denver to opt for Clinton. She's ready and she can and would be McCain.
August 2, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!
God, I love it when trolls make themselves easy to find. Anyone still advocating for Clinton to get the nomination seriously needs to grow up. But at least you made me chuckle.
August 2, 2008 9:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Obama cares only about himself. He'd throw the black community under the bus just as quickly as everyone else when the need arises."
As a member of the "black comminity", I implore you to stop speaking for me - we already have inept leadership, we don't need any desperate Hillary dead-enders. Thats what I would call piss poor representation.
"What is the black community, who in almost lock-step gave him over 90% support, going to do? Vote for McCain?!"
Asshole, if you remember, Obama was only get 45% support early in the primaries - people who act like he's always had that support are demonstrably wrong. But then again, I guess I have to consider the pathetic source.
Then again, not too late for cooler heads to prevail and for the delegates in Denver to opt for Clinton. She's ready and she can and would be McCain.
August 2, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting slip.
August 3, 2008 1:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Obama needs to get off his high horse and start talking to people at their level. Americans aren't going to vote for him just because he's the first black celebrity to run for president, though he genuinely seems to expects that they will. It's taken him this long to even condescend to offer some relief to consumers hurting over high gas prices, and it only shows how out of touch he is with the concerns of average voters. He needs to be seen in a town hall setting, interacting with average Americans rather than talking down from them on high. If he thinks he can win by collecting more money and playing it safe, he's making the same mistake as Kerry.
August 2, 2008 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm wondering whether the McCain camp gave you those talking points personally.
August 2, 2008 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since McCain can't use the internet yet, my guess is that they had to give it to him personally.
August 2, 2008 8:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh! Good point. Very good point.
August 2, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's right. Reinforce the perception that Obama is arrogant. Rather than rebutting the facts, your lame response is to assume an air of superiority, just like him. What losers.
August 2, 2008 8:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look at Obama in Iowa a few days ago and explain to me how he was on a high horse and not just talking to the issues facing working people but actually offering real ideas of how as chief executive office of this country he would utilize the federal government to move us in a positive direction.
August 2, 2008 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You just rattled off a lot of meaningless psychobabble without offering anything concrete. That's the problem. Why did it take Obama until a couple days ago, to directly address the problem of sky high gas prices? The only reason the Republican plan, disingenuous as it was, gained so much traction is because Obama and the Democrats were offering nothing. So now his solution is to flip-flop and adopt the Republican plan for offshore drilling? How lame is that?
August 2, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You talk in vagueness about nothing but your perception of Obama's character. It's nothing but a blatant attack and failed attempt at character assassination, so I fail to see what there is to rebut at all in your statement. Perhaps if you'd made any kind of substantive claim I would have felt the need to respond otherwise. You don't hand someone dirt and tell them to pretend it's gold.
August 2, 2008 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
bla bla bla
August 2, 2008 10:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Rather than rebutting the facts, your lame response is to assume an air of superiority." =)
August 2, 2008 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
bla bla bla bla
August 2, 2008 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm beginning to think there's a correlation between lack of substance in one's posts and the poster actually lacking in intelligence. I shall return later with my results.
August 2, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
bla bla bla bla bla
August 2, 2008 11:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your lack of meaningful responses proves nothing more than your lack of actual points of contention to make. I can do nothing but assume you concede the debate. Honestly, you make it too easy. I know some people act out their avatars, but you pretty much epitomize that notion. =)
August 3, 2008 1:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
bla bla bla bla bla bla
August 3, 2008 3:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
most coherent thing you've written all day.
August 3, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay Robotboy, Obama was in a town hall in St. Petersburg yesterday in which a local group disrupted his prepared remarks and challenged him on his positions regarding African American issues. He addressed them with respect, then called on them during the Q&A. He was sincere with them and everyone else. He in no way talked down to anyone.
From there he went on an unannounced visit to a market in Plant City, a conservative area. The employees and customers were beside themselves. Here's a link to the story covered by our local right-ish newspaper if you're interested (this is my first attempt at a link btw):
href="http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/aug/01/desperately-seeking-obama/?news-breaking/">Obama in Plant City
August 2, 2008 9:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sigh. Sorry, it didn't work.
August 2, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, wait, one more try.
Obama at Plant City Market
August 2, 2008 10:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's surprising that you would use that incident, since it only reinforced the impression that Obama is even out of touch with average black people. All that most people saw was the banner and the protest. It reinforced the idea that he's even aloof and unresponsive to the black community, which gave him his start in politics. That he uses people to achieve his ambitions and then discards them - just as he did with Rev Wright, and also Jesse Jackson.
August 2, 2008 9:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
And we've now come full circle back to the "Is he black enough?" criticism. It was just a matter of time.
August 2, 2008 10:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
It has nothing to do with whether he's black enough, and you're attempt to keep playing the race card, as if it were the best answer for every criticism, is not only hinky, but it's exactly what is derailing Obama's campaign right now. Obama has always had trouble connecting with average, working-class voters - black or white. It has nothing to do with race, it has to do with his style, whether you want to call it professorial or elitist or whatever - that's what he needs to recognize and solve, rather than playing the race card.
August 2, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
No...it was your post that specified "average black people". In fact, your whole post centered around his relationship to the black community...if you were so sensitive about the subject, you shouldn't have brought it up.
August 2, 2008 10:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
#1 I'm not the one who brought up Obama's relationship with the African American community. The post I responded to was the one that did that.
#2 My point was that Obama's real problem is how he connects with average people - black or white. YOU were the one who then tried to make it all about race again, because that's how you and Obama shut down any criticism.
#3 It may work on this blog, but it isn't going to work with McCain, or with the American people. That's the point you don't get.
August 2, 2008 11:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
robotboy,
Are you genuinely obtuse? Or does it just suit some inner need to be contrary no matter what.
August 3, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
He included the hecklers in the discussion. Further, he does address important issues in language that most thinking people understand. People stood in line in the rain to get tickets in St. Pete -- it was sold out. They're starting to pay attention. They know how important this election is. And from what I've seen, they understand that it's going to take someone with a hell of a lot of intellect and consensus-building savvy to get us out of this mess. Interesting avatar btw. Done.
CM
August 2, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
"he does address important issues in language that most thinking people understand."
Then perhaps Obama should have remained a professor, rather than condescend to be president. BTW: If he were as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be a lot further ahead in the polls.
August 2, 2008 11:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
your manipulation of the debate is the epitomy of political spin. One main thread of your argument is that because he can't connect with people means that he will be bad president. So hey folks he may actually be a great president but since he can't convey this you shouldn't vote for him and people who support him are idiots. What a great intellect you are
August 2, 2008 11:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
"One main thread of your argument is that because he can't connect with people means that he will be bad president."
No, the main thread of my argument is that because he can't connect with average voters, he's going to have a hard time getting elected. Though I don't see how he could be a good president either if he can't connect with the hopes and aspirations of the people in a meaningful way. In other words, if this really is all about Obama's gigantic ego, he will fail as a leader even if he manages to get elected.
August 3, 2008 3:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Though I don't see how he could be a good president either if he can't connect with the hopes and aspirations of the people in a meaningful way.
I guess that's why there's all those non-people that show up at his non-connecting speeches.
August 3, 2008 10:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Rebutting what facts? All I saw were some opinions you asserted.
August 3, 2008 10:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
What a pathetic child. What more can you say?
Oh, and Sir Gaffesalot is going to shit his Depends when Obama steps into the debate ring with him. It'll be the perfect juxtaposition of cottage cheese and green jello salad vs a brilliant, charismatic leader.
It'll almost be as much fun as watching Dubya get his ass kicked in debates. I'll bump that up to "a hell of a lot more fun" after the first time McCain loses his cool and starts screaming.
August 2, 2008 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can McCain speak spanish?
August 2, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think so.
August 2, 2008 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Other than "Mi amigos..." probably not.
August 2, 2008 9:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
The McCain statement nails Obama perfectly--all talk and no substance. Anyway, Obama not ready for any debates as he's still trying to figure out his positions on the issues. Kind of makes Kerry look good after all.
August 2, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
FEED ME!! FEED ME!! FEED ME!!
August 2, 2008 8:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually it will McCain who looks foolish at the first debate when Rick Warren confronts both of them on values and religion, areas that Obama feels utterly comfortable discussing in terms of government whereas areas that McCain can't wait to get miles away from.
August 2, 2008 8:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I used to think McCain had values. I even believed him when he said he wanted a civil campaign. I've learned my lesson.
August 2, 2008 8:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the last week, most of the people I discuss politics with have expressed exactly that same sentiment, as have I. What has truly changed for a lot of us in the past week is the nature of the our opponent, which has only made us more determined to see victory (see the increase in donations to Obama after Hilton/Spears ad)
August 2, 2008 8:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I had a post about that. I donated to Obama on the 31st, and David Plouffe emailed everyone and said they got over 200,000 donations in the last week of July. That's freaking impressive, it really is. I can't wait to see Obama's July numbers.
August 2, 2008 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
My mother, who has never donated to a political campaign before this, made another donation on Thusday she was so p.o.'d about the commercial.
Of oourse the RNC has lots of money for commercials, but they can't use that money for things like field offices, which Obama has like 4 or 5 in Montana and McCain has none.
August 2, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's funny you mention that. You might like my latest blog post.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/why-my-fears-were-unfounded-or.php#comments
And before this election I had never even considered donating to a political campaign. But I've donated to Obama on a few occasions, and felt proud doing it.
August 2, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's an excellent blog post. I think a fact that the pundits keep forgetting is that George Bush was able to win Ohio in 2004 (aside from the help he received from the state in regards to polling both placement) was the get-out-the-vote volunteers. In states where it might be close like Colorado, Montana, Ohio, Florida, and Virginia, it will be the volunteers developed through these field offices that will be the deciding factor.
August 2, 2008 9:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why thank you, very much!
And yes, that's a point I've been trying to make at every opportunity. Bush won because he was able to rally the far-right with his ground game. It wasn't an ad blitz or debates. It was increased voter registration and a very effective GOTV. I see Obama using this strategy. Not the same as Bush, but the point of expanding the ground game and focusing on GOTV. People truly underestimate its effectiveness.
August 2, 2008 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I donated on the 31st also. I was kind of on the fence about whether or not I was going to donate again for the month, but McTemper's recent behavior sealed the deal.
August 2, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's not really a debate though, one speaks and is questioned, and then leaves and the other takes the stage for the same.
McCain will tell the story about the guard drawing the cross in the dirt and the crowd will swoon. He'll make concrete statements against abortion and stemcell research and he'll get a standing ovation.
August 2, 2008 9:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The McCain statement nails Obama perfectly--all talk and no substance."
Even if the commonly regurgitated "empty suit" talking points were true, it must eat you up that Obama dismantled Hillary's presidential chances so easily. Thoughts? That being said, a knuckle-dragging bigot applauding even the most pedestrian of campaign responses shouldn't surprise anyone.
"Anyway, Obama not ready for any debates as he's still trying to figure out his positions on the issues. Kind of makes Kerry look good after all."
I'm starting to get the feeling that you don't even buy the line of shit you're peddling any more. I mean, you can't, unless your parents were siblings or you have a heroin problem we need to know about..
August 2, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't McCain have a cameo in a movie, and has been on Letterman 11 times, and a regular on the Daily Show and Saturday Night Live. I think we need to ask who is the one acting like a celebrity? As far as I know Obama hasn't been in a movie. This needs to be thrown back at McCain because it's getting too repetitive.
August 2, 2008 8:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please don't be tiresome.
I don't like being nannied.
August 2, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you want to wait just a bit, McCain will forget he wanted town hall meetings, change his mind about them, or confuse town hall meetings with debates. He never had much intelligence, and what little he had has evaporated with old age.
August 2, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also someone needs to do a McCain celebrity ad using the ladies from The Golden Girls, or glam girls from the 1940's.
August 2, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just really think this is particularly funny given that it's about the debates.
I personally can't wait to see McLame start foaming at the mouth during the first one. Mr Empty Uppity is going to lay that little fucker out - McLame is stupid.
That's his real weakness.
Obama will exploit the hell out of that when the time comes.
August 2, 2008 9:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's finally dawning on a lot of those in media, and the conservative circles, that McCain is far, far from being the sharpest tool in the shed, and when he is in environment that doesn't spoon feed him questions he is either going to zoom off message or just sputter like a idiot.
August 2, 2008 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is going to pummel McSurge in a debate. He's just biding his time like did with the Iraq trip.
August 2, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Indeed. Seriously - I haven't seen Obama or Plouffe miss a step yet.
- which makes all the armchair quarterbacking almost comical at times.
August 2, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
When Obama and McCrusty are side by side in a debate setting he'll need more than $500 loafers to look presidential.
August 2, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Love your idea, Debra.
Also, I'm getting pretty steamed that nobody's calling McCain's campaign on their townhall rant. They make it sound like Obama doesn't do Town Halls and "answer directly to the American people".
It's becoming increasingly clear that McCain can say whatever he wants and the MSM lets him get away with blatant lies.
August 2, 2008 9:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Part of the reason McCain wants a town hall is because if the place only holds a couple hundred people, he might be able to rustle up enough supporters to fill half of it. Have a debate in a large setting and most of the people there will be Obama supporters.
August 2, 2008 9:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think we can all remember the audience reaction to Clinton's xerox comment.
August 2, 2008 9:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I wouldn't want to be the person who had to mop up the flop-sweat.
August 2, 2008 9:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
But it will be interesting to see how they spin the fact there was so much flop-sweat. Are we that far away from "only an American patriot would sweat under the barrage of the Socialist media."
August 2, 2008 9:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain wants a town hall because that is the only situation he is comfortable in. We've all seen his GOP Primary debates, he simply doesn't look comfortable at all.
August 2, 2008 9:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
If the McCain town halls I've seen are any indication, he's awful in them too. Obama would trounce the angry old man in that setting.
The thing I find funny is that in order to keep their Official Debate Franchise intact, the MSM insists on it's superiority over the average voter in honing in and forcing a candidate to address relevant, complex issues where they otherwise wouldn't. Truly droll.
August 2, 2008 9:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
In his town halls, McCain doesn't have to compete for attention. He won't be comfortable in any setting where people can make a direct comparison between him and a challenger. Criticizing Obama for not debating him in town halls was just McCain blowing smoke out his ass. He would prefer not to have to face him at all.
August 2, 2008 9:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
So then why didn't Obama agree to as many debates as Sen. McCain desired? Doesn't want to give him the free coverage once he's locked into the public money? Obama wants to win by exploiting a money advantage?
August 2, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're exactly right, which leaves me scratching my head as to Obama's strategy.
Why hasn't Obama funded a series of hard hitting, factually accurate ads about oil company profits, education, health care, the mortgage crisis, etc., that play off McCain's negativity?
The clever geek quotient skews seismographically in Obama's favor, but you wouldn't know it from watching his ads. Moreover, his unresponsiveness has made it difficult to counteract what has become a McCain ad barrage during the political infotainment shows.
August 2, 2008 10:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
To be perfectly honest, Obama hasn't exactly been at his best in debate settings either. It's a little surprising, because when asked similar questions in interviews he really shines. Still, I can't help but think that in a side by side comparison he will beat McCain, unless the questions are really skewed to favor the latter, which I won't rule out given the MSM coverage to date.
August 2, 2008 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama isn't a quick on his feet thinker, which is highlighted in debates. Also he tries to give real answers rather than pre-packaged answers that tested well in mock debates. You can already see McCain has canned answers during his interviews when certain questions come up. Working in "lacks experience and knowledge" is a dead giveaway as well. It's almost Pavlovian, McCain has been programmed that he can't talk about Obama without adding that in, no matter what the question was.
August 2, 2008 10:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good observation. Obama is a holistic, not a sequential thinker. That was obvious to me from the start. I process information the same way although I'm a total dunce by comparison. It's a slower thinking process whereby there are a bunch of related precepts floating around in your head and in a flash they synthesize into a working concept. It's horribly frustrating to be so slow, but the end result is deep understanding. Sequential thinkers can rattle stuff off at lightning speed. The info's right there.
August 3, 2008 12:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Percepts, not precepts.
August 3, 2008 1:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain has to talk at about five town hall meetings to get in front of the amount of people that Obama does in one. And probably half of McCain's are staff or staged.
Did anybody believe that little girl asking McCain about taxes this week wasn't staged? The conservatives were having a fit and McCain had to back track fast on not raising taxes so they put that little girl in there with the right question. It was so obviously set up.
I don't understand where these poll numbers are coming from when nobody even shows up to listen to the old man. Are they calling retirement homes or something?
August 2, 2008 9:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you forget about the wonderful Townhall McSame held where that 60 year old librarian was arrested for carrying a sign that said McCain=Bush?
McSame is just like Chimpy in respect to controlling who makes it into their meetings. You republiscums will be solely disappointed in you little man once you see him against our soon to be next President, Barack Obama.
August 2, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Both Kerry and Gore whupped Bush in the Debates. However, the ass whuppings were spun as Gore and Kerry being all smart and shit. Apparently Americans don't like knowitalls. We'll see how Obama overcomes this hurdle.
August 2, 2008 9:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
You actually do have a good point here - Bush bragged about being a C-Student, and McCain about being 5th from the bottom of his class of 899 - It makes people feel about themselves in a "Hey I'm just as smart/smarter than the President" kind of way, whereas Obama and his fancy Harvard education, graduating magna cum laude and president of the Harvard Law Review make people feel inadequate on one level or the other.
August 2, 2008 9:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let the Republicans have the willfully stupid. The districts where Dems have been picking up strength in the last few years are in upwardly mobile suburban areas where people don't want stupid children unable to compete in the future. But Obama and the willfully stupid party need to have a coherent message and they need to stop being afraid to sell any message. "We're just as stupid as they are" is not the right message.
August 2, 2008 10:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Boy you two are a couple of creaking old dinosaurs.
If you can't tell that Americans realize now that they made one hell of a mistake with Commander CooCooBananas and if you can't tell that almost every single American out there is sick of having a moron in the White House - well, y'all have been dead since '04 and somebody dug you two up for this election season.
I'd like to get my hands on whoever it was, too.
August 3, 2008 11:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Kerry and Edwards went on too much about Cheney's daughter being gay in the debates. I thought it made them look too defensive.
August 2, 2008 9:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe if there was a free concert and free beer and food like in Germany Obama would attract a big enough crowd for his ego at the Town Hall meetings, but then he would not have to talk to actual voters...SNAP! Obama doesn't want to talk to actual voters, they are beneath him!!
August 2, 2008 10:14 PM | Reply | Permalink