Joe Biden To Visit Georgia This Weekend
Senator Joe Biden, a top Obama surrogate who's being discussed as a potential Veep for Obama, just announced that he'll be visiting Georgia, too, in addition to key McCain surrogates Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham.
"I am going to Georgia this weekend to get the facts first-hand and to show my support for Georgia's people and its democratically-elected government," Biden said in a statement released today. "I look forward to reporting to my colleagues in the Senate and on the Foreign Relations Committee, as well as the Administration, about what I learn."
The move, which is likely to stir even more speculation about Biden's Veep chances, could play in Obama's favor. The Illinois Senator would almost certainly like one of his key foreign policy allies to visit Georgia, too, at a time when McCain is trying to usurp the commander-in-chief role with regard to the Russia-Georgia crisis by talking to the lead actors in the crisis almost daily and dispatching his own campaign allies to the region.
Late Update: Biden is going at the request of Georgia's President.
That's pretty funny. Is the Biden visit as insane and arrogant as the Lieberman/Graham visits in your opinion?
August 16, 2008 4:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
No in the sense that he is not going there explicitly as part of Obama's camp, a subtle but important difference.
August 16, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's really a foolish idea to send surrogates of any kind on this publicity stunt. We still have a government, as lousy as it is, and the best thing is not to interfere by creating false impressions of support for the wacko who started this ten days ago by invading South Ossetia. Obama needs to keep his mouth shut and stand back to allow McCain to place his $500 shoe in his.
The truth is that very few people in the US have a clue how much the president of Georgia has relied on exactly these kinds of hugs of support to make him bold enough to launch this crazy attack in the first place.
For the record, the Russians have been very consistent is stating that their incursion into Georgia proper was strictly to give the Georgian government a good old fashioned bitch slap. Medvedev stated it in nearly these terms right away, and we should sit back and shut up while the Russians and Georgians sort this out with the help of the French and Germans.
August 17, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is Biden going there at the behest of Sen. Obama, as some sort of Presidential Campaign envoy?
Biden is probably going to see exactly what McCain is up to over there.
August 16, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
CNN is reporting that it's at the request of Georgia. They're probably sick of getting bullied by neocons.
His spokesman, Elizabeth Alexander said, “At the request of Georgian president (Mikhail) Saakashvilli, Chairman Biden is heading to Georgia this weekend. He is leaving this evening and will be there Sunday.”
August 16, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
well that is different.
August 16, 2008 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
well that makes sense
McCain lies about his voting record on energy
August 16, 2008 7:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's going in his capacity of Foreign Relations Chairman and at the request of the president of Georgia.
He is NOT GOING as part of, or on behalf of the obama campaign.
August 16, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting experiment to see if McCain surrogates will be hypocritical enough to accuse Obama of being "presumptuous." Also, Biden can confirm whether Joe and Lindsey actually made it all the way to Georgia. My guess is that Lindsey, at lest, is actually spending the weekend holed up at a male brothel in Amsterdam.
August 16, 2008 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hahahaha, you dirrty dirrrrrty little rat!
:-)
August 16, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
A visit to the local Walmart by Lieberman/Graham would be insane and arrogant.
It's not the place, but those two blowhards.
August 16, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
No because he was asked to go to Georgia by President Saakashvili.
It is only John McCain and the "McCainettes" (Lieberman & Graham) who are being the presumptuous ones in this crises!
August 16, 2008 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I say yes. I hate freaking hate Biden.
August 17, 2008 11:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Late Update: Biden is going at the request of Georgia's President.
Perhaps you'd like to ask Saak about that.
Knee jerk foreign policy like McCain blovates about is going to bring this country to ruin. Russia holds how much in Fanny and Freddie Mac? They wouldn't need to fire a shot, they could take us down with a simple sale.
Saak overstepped his bounds. The admin was whispering sweet nothings to him about our backing them, but he blew it with overkill and got just that, nothing from us.
If Biden can talk Saak back off his cliff, and if folks like McCain could manage to stuff their chestbeating for just a short time, this might just blow over without major ramifications.
McCain sends his hawks to bolster Saak's ego...maybe him asking for Biden is a good sign that he's smarter than the hawks we have around here and realizes there is no there there in what we help we can offer.
August 17, 2008 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I heard rumblings of this earlier this morning, and it is definitely interesting. I think it would have played better if he just went and didn't announce it before hand. It would have been better if McCain is trumpeting Lieberman and Graham's visit to Georgia, and Biden could say, yeah I was there too, representing the US Government as Chairman of Foreign Relations, but didn't think I needed to publicize the fact to score cheap political points as part of a candidates personal "envoy".
August 16, 2008 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain's attempt to use the Georgia/Russia conflict for political gain will fall flat. I watched a rerun yesterday of the town hall where McCain dropped his phony "We are all Georgians" line. The audience behind him was struggling to stay awake, one guy actually yawned. If it doesn't even resonate with the people who go out of their way to see him in person, what are the odds it will benefit him elsewhere?
August 16, 2008 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
i saw that too, but figured i was viewing the original one. So, he went out of his way to say that--poking a finger in our eyes? daring us to ask him to please not include us in his declarations?
then we could get reviled on all the main stations, anchors could look at us with venom in their eyes, but we knew better, we have the
The Men In Black yippee!
August 17, 2008 12:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Me too, me too, me too.... " basically.
Oh, and love this line: "key McCain surrogates Joe Lieberman and John McCain"
August 16, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden is a Senator, and Senators go to foreign countries all the time (see McCain in Iraq). So to say that Biden's visit is identical, basically, as McCain trying to be President and sending his two envoys is to be completely off-base.
August 16, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Except when the post announces Biden as a key surrogate, which is basically an invitation to connect the dots. What other reason is there to post this on TPM?
August 16, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some people may indeed see it that way, but I have another view of it.
Even if Sen Obama DID ask Sen Biden to go (which he didn't; President Saakashvili asked for him to visit) he didn't make the announcement on Nat'l TV. He also didn't pretend he is already the President, in telling the world that he's sending his "envoys", like McCain did.
John McCain can NEVER accuse Sen Obama of being "Presumptuous" again; he's the EPITOME of arrogance, IMHO.
August 16, 2008 6:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now I asked Josh this very question. Isn't it particularly frustrating that McCain ridicules Obama for being arrogant and then sends envoys to Georgia as though he's already President? Must be. If it puts a bug up your ass, think of what it must do to Obama. It's a game of nerves. First one to fly off the handle loses. The first debate should be very entertaining.
August 16, 2008 7:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
good point. You know that, given McCain's reputation for having a nasty temper, that his handlers probably have him loaded on tranquilizers, or are at least stage-managing what he does very tightly.
Suggests that mockery and light-hearted needling by Obama and all surrogates is definitely called for. The hero is ready to pop.
August 16, 2008 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain and his surrogates can and will accuse Obama of being "fill-in-the-blank".
Because McCain's campaign has fully adopted the, repeat it and move on strategy from Rove/Cheney that works so well with people who are too tired to look for the facts.
Really, since McCain is disloyal to everything he has every professed loyalty to (wife, country, party, maverick status) he has nothing else to run on.
August 17, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
You have it in a nutshell. All McCain has got is trying to knock Obama down, rather than push his own advantages. He sees it as a war of attrition.
August 17, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
WaPo reports that Biden is going at the request of Saakashvili.
Biden has been speaking of this potential hot spot for months, and most likely has spoken with Saakashvili over the course of time.
I think he was invited in his capacity of Chairman of the SFRC -- and TPM just covered it because of the Biden/VP buzz.
August 16, 2008 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
If so, this just points to Biden's credentials. I'm sure that Saakashvili doesn't have Lindsey or Liberman's numbers on speed dial.
August 16, 2008 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Either Lieberman or Graham singly would be enough to make a person's skin crawl. The gruesome twosome would be hard to take.
Saakashvili: "Biden, better get over here quick, these guys are creeping me out... and bring a bucket of water because they're stuck like dogs. One of them got turned around so now they're facing in opposite directions, growling, running back and forth and really tearing up the place."
August 16, 2008 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL. Of course, now I have to figure out a way to get this image out my head.
August 16, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I got an email notifying me that Mike Allen of Politico wrote about it; that's where I first read about it.
August 16, 2008 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
The point is that it is subtle. Rather than Obama announcing he is sending Biden, Biden announces he going to Georgia as part of his senatorial duties. This is in contrast to McCain announcing he is sending two individuals who have no real role in negotiations (as compared to Rice).
McCain overplayed his hand. If Obama and Biden worked this out (no evidence yet they did), then they did it in a way that it will be difficult to attack Obama on it.
August 16, 2008 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Subtle as a sailor on a weekend pass. Subtle as a blowtorch. Analogies fail me. McCain won't have to attack Obama on it. He'll just make fun of him.
August 16, 2008 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Make fun of him for what?
Saakashvili REQUESTED Biden to come. I don't think he extended the invite to Graham and Lieberman.
If anybody is deserving of ridicule, it's the McCain mob in this instance.
August 16, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. He just talks to McCain a couple of times a day and quotes McCain in his speeches. It will probably turn out that McCain advised him to invite Biden.
August 16, 2008 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
After standing up there with his puffed-out chest, announcing that HE was sending Lieberman and Graham to Georgia like he was already the president....you really think he's going to make fun of Obama? Yeah, right.
August 16, 2008 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think he's going to make fun of Obama a lot. What do you call what he's been doing? I'm guessing he'll do a lot of it in the first debate. Why is it that we see it as arrogant when McCain sends surrogates and a brilliant political move when Obama does?
August 16, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
A) No-one, and let me repeat that, NO ONE in this thread has mentioned that this was a "brilliant idea" or tactic by the Obama campaign;
B) Biden is going to Georgia as explicitly invited by the Georgians, as the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee.
In other words, you just wrote absolutely nothing. Unless your point, too subtly presented for mere mortals, was that despite the facts of the issue, McCain will present the issue in the manner you described and that the MSM will not call him out on it.
August 16, 2008 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
The move, which is likely to stir even more speculation about Biden's Veep chances, could play in Obama's favor. The Illinois Senator would almost certainly like one of his key foreign policy allies to visit Georgia, too, at a time when McCain is trying to usurp the commander-in-chief role with regard to the Russia-Georgia crisis by talking to the lead actors in the crisis almost daily and dispatching his own campaign allies to the region. -- Greg Sergeant
But good point. Greg isn't in the thread. However, it is his thread. Why the double standard.
August 16, 2008 7:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't even make sense anymore.
August 17, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
And again, after pulling what McCain did, he won't have the standing to make fun of McCain on this issue.
Just a shot in the dark here....because no one invited McCain's surrogates? Because Obama didn't stand up in front of the national press and announce to all that HE was sending them over?
August 16, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't think Saakashvili and McCain discussed it? What do you think they talk about every day? TPM?
August 16, 2008 7:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, according to your theory, Biden's going over there as a representative of the Obama campaign...if you think they've been discussing Biden's visit, I guess that would mean McCain was discussing election strategy with the head of a foreign government who has paid almost a million dollars to his top foreign policy advisor. Nice.
August 16, 2008 7:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Billy boy has to pull his head out of his ass-hat. He and fellow ass-hat, Lalo, just rant here without adding any value.
August 16, 2008 7:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right. And that was a valuable comment you just made? How you liking old McCain on stage? The first debate is going to be fun.
August 16, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. Calling out you two trolls is a valuable contribution indeed. Why, does the truth hurt ?
August 17, 2008 4:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not so sure this is good. I saw Obama as one up on the "presumptious" scale when McCain's boys went to Georgia. I thought Obama could get some mileage out of it, but this puts the kabosh to that idea.
Any reasons given for Biden's trip other than as a representative of Obama will sound like so much BS.
August 16, 2008 5:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo.
But I also doubt that Republicans would be able get too much mileage out of this.
August 16, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
too much? try none.
August 16, 2008 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The president of Georgia, Saakashvili, requested Biden to come. He went in his capacity of Chair of the SFRC.
If there wasn't a Biden/VP buzz going around, nobody would give this a second thought.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
August 16, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden going is at the request of Saakashvili not Obama.
More foreign leader ownage?
August 16, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since McCain and Saakashvili apparenlty have a personal relationship, I doubt if it means anything more than Saakashvili is attempting to cover his bases by talking to both candidates and has opened up the dialog with Obama in a way that is acceptable to the Obama campaign, which has gone on record as not wanting to step on Bush's toes by conducting foreign policy as a candidate.
August 16, 2008 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Where did you read/hear about Obama "not wanting to stepon any White House toes" on this issue. I think that is the right stance to take, but haven't read that from the Obama Camp.
August 16, 2008 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't get that "personal relationship" thing, seeing as how McCain can't even correctly pronounce Saakashvili's name correctly.
August 16, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Er, strike one of those "correctly"s...
August 16, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwzsIV_ESEY&e
August 16, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Proving that both political parties are equally adept at destroying relations with Russia. We have no business in Georgia.
August 16, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah. We don't want to destroy relations with our great friends the Russians.
August 16, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course not. It would be so much more macho to fight them on their border a few thousand miles away from our own. When did you leave the reality based community?
August 16, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
When I started talking to people like you who think military conflict is how the crisis will get settled.
August 17, 2008 9:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
A request by the President of Georgia sounds like an ok excuse...
August 16, 2008 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Go, Joe!!!
Besides, despite all his demurrals, if Biden is not Obama's VP pick, he'll more than likely get his wish and head State.
Personally, though Biden's presidential campaign may not have ended as he'd hoped, I do think it was a brilliant move. It has certainly raised his not-inconsiderable profile nationwide. He's a good guy. Sure, he's tripped up, but he's always owned up to his mistakes. His biggest mistake was not standing up to HRC one year ago as she ran on the lie that she was the most-experienced candidate. Biden, Dodd and Richardson - hell, even Kucinich - were too well-mannered to call her on it.
Obama/Biden '08!!!
August 16, 2008 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, looking at the update, we can put to rest that Biden's visit is to Obama as McCain sending Joe and Lindsey.
Of course, the Georgian President may be trying to play up to Obama by giving him this gift. If so, so much for the friendship between him and McCain.
August 16, 2008 5:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
But they talk every day.
August 16, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just that Saakashvili is usually saying "why do you keep calling me?" This is followed by "how did you get this number?"
August 16, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
And then, "Why can't you pronounce my name? It's not that hard, even George Bush manages it with his little phonetic cue card!"
August 16, 2008 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain's response: "But I was a POW."
August 16, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Late Update: Biden is going at the request of Georgia's President."
BOOM!
August 16, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Of course, the Georgian President may be trying to play up to Obama by giving him this gift. If so, so much for the friendship between him and McCain."
The G. president is a sycophant, so it may be foolish of him to bet all of his chips on McCain and then lose. If he's seen (and so far he is) as playing politics and favoring McCain, what will an Obama Administration owe him?
August 16, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing, except that Georgia plays a huge strategic role in the region from the perspective of the US.
Unfortunately, what he and many other countries are learning, and just what the Russians wanted to demonstrate, is that the United States (i.e. Bush, neocons) are not going save their butts, in large part because our military is stretched too thin because of Iraq (and to lesser degree Afghanistan).
Obama would, I believe, do what he can, to support Georgia, but he's not going to lose the big picture when it comes to this one country.
August 16, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not just because we are stretched too thin in Iraq and Afghanistan. I think even Bush blinks when he thinks of war with Russia.
August 16, 2008 8:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
ps - this does bolster all the gratuitous VP speculation. If Biden were to be VP, this is the kind of thing you might do.
August 16, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Might do? Might do what? Make the US look even more recklessly and fecklessly incompetent than we already do?
August 16, 2008 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Make a ceremonial visit with a head of state that is experiencing a crisis, and by doing so, sending a message that if, in this case, Russia took the next step and actually invaded the capital, the US would respond.
August 16, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Respond???? LOL. Would that be like Hungary in '56 or Prague in '68?
But heck, who cares if a few Georgians get killed here and there or even a few Russians as long as both D's and R's get to play at phony war. Not like we haven't played this vile game before.
August 16, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, respond.
The US isn't going to war over some lost territory in regards to Georgia, but in the end they can't roll their tanks into the capital. Maybe I'm wrong, but Russia is basically done with it nose-thumbing at the US.
So someone like Biden is ceremonial in that no one thinks Russia will invade the capital, but that in the future, taking Georgia completely should not be in its long term plans.
August 16, 2008 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too bad the Russians aren't the only super power left instead of us. I know the world would be a better place.
August 16, 2008 7:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too bad for us that we're rapidly becoming just one of a bunch of good old-fashioned major powers.
August 16, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen.
August 17, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which weekend are we talking about? This current one as in Biden is over there now? Or next weekend, after which Obama has named his VP and the weekend before the DNC National Convention?
August 16, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whoa! Just to speculate for a minute, the timing of this trip if Biden were the VP pick would be pretty awesome.
They've already gotten it out of the way that this isn't an idea that was hatched by Obama. If Joe were pegged as Obama's VP, it would up the appearance of foreign policy expertise up a few notches for sure.
Okay, enough speculation. Just figured if things play out that way, it would be a boon to Obama's campaign.
August 16, 2008 7:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden = Obama? I don't think so.
The rubber bands stretched to connect these vague dots must really sting when they break and smack a bunch of you on the knuckles.
August 16, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden has always been a serious contender for the VP spot, whether one approves of this decision or not. Biden was always kept in the mix because of his foreign policy credentials and this situation only reinforces those credentials.
August 16, 2008 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree that this provides more heft to Biden's VP credentials. All this proves is that politicans HUNGER for the spotlight and will move into that light like a moth to flame.
We've been treated to McCain doing it for weeks followed by a camera-ready MSM and now we have two of McCain's buddies and Biden muscling into the shaft of light.
I doubt that Obama has "hunger for attention" listed as a VP qualification. :)
August 16, 2008 7:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unlike McCain's cronies, Biden has a reason to be there. And he's going there at the request of people directly involved. And Biden just so happens to support Obama. So, in other words, this is all way way better than this crap McCain is trying to pull.
August 16, 2008 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like, has anything even come of the visit? It was announced, but beyond that I haven't seen anything about their visit.
August 16, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg: given how everyone is getting into a tizzy, I think you should urgently edit your "Late Update" as follows:
Option 1: "To avoid being seen as presumptuous, Obama campaign hastily arranged for an invitation from Saakashvili..."
Option 2: "As soon as Obama has safely returned from Hawaii..."
Option 3: "Saakashvili REQUESTED in no uncertain terms, that Biden get his ass on the plane and come over RIGHT NOW, or he would start talking to McCain twice as many times every day"
Option 4: Leave "Late Update" as it is, just add big WINK WINK at the end.
August 16, 2008 5:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you really think that Obama has such pull within in the Georgian government as to get a request for Biden? Pretty good for a junior Senator.
August 16, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you people even read these posts???
Biden is Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee!! It's his JOB to go!!
Any pundits, republicans, or shills who try to play Biden's trip to Georgia as a response from Obama or a negative on Obama are just plain stupid ignorant whining pawns!
And yes, this gives props to Obama and Biden and ads creds to the Democratic abilities in International Security and Foriegn Relations.
Also, once President Saakashvili talked to McCain's envoy of Lieberman and Graham, he probably realized they had no authority and wondered, " What the hell am I talking to you two goons for? Get me Biden!"
August 16, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Love your avatar. And of course, once Obama is back from Hawaii and Condi did the deal, it's Biden's JOB to go.
August 16, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Condi did the deal? Are the Russians gone? If so, it is only because they managed to destroy the complete infrastructure of the Georgian army. They were still at it when Condi was winging her way back to her husband ... er... boss.
Also, the DEAL was done by the president of France, not condi. She is part of the gang that couldn't shoot straight, remember?
August 16, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
How many hours do you think she lays in bed at night wondering why she left her position at Stanford?
Bush and company are redifing the "lame" in lame duck presidency.
August 16, 2008 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
But we're not looking forward to getting her back.
August 16, 2008 8:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just wish he/she weren't so rude to Greg. Greg is just doing his job. Soon to come, the famous "never mind."
August 16, 2008 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden would be a mixed windbag as the running mate. Plenty of cred on foreign policy and he's intelligent. But a loose cannon in what he says.
New RockyMountainNews poll (see fivethirtyeight.com) has McCain ahead by 3 now in CO, confirming Rasmussen's and Quinnipiac's findings that McCain has retaken the lead there.
August 16, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
The margin of error was 4.38 for the RockyMountain.
So until one of them has a consistent 6% to 7% lead, this is a swing state.
August 16, 2008 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep hope alive!
August 16, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Come on, Barack! Put the fucking wheels back on! It's slipping through your fingers! Walnuts is a sitting duck. Take a fucking shot for chrissake!
August 16, 2008 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would posit that they are waiting until after the conventions, based on the conventional wisdom that what is said now (aside from the Kerry swiftboart poo) is forgotten in the haze of summer.
August 16, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden a loose cannon verbally? Compared to McCain he is an eloquant linguist.
August 16, 2008 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent way to put it succiently.
August 16, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree...but unlike McCain, Biden doesn't have the MSM falling all over themselves to excuse or explain away everything Biden says.
August 16, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
All these Colorado polls are within the margin of error so it just shows that Colorado is tight and will be won on the ground. If the polls showed that it was outside the margin of error than I would worry but it is not.
I still say that Obama will take Colorado especially after the convention when there will be thousands of energizes Colorado folks who will be registering and GOTV.
In terms of Biden, I think Obama should choose him as his VP. I think he is the best attack dog out there.
August 16, 2008 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree. His "a noun, a verb, and 911" was perfect; didn't sound scripted, and gave everyone a laugh at Rudy's expense. McCain is a perfect foil for Biden's one-liners.
August 16, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
One could make the argument that his liability of saying how it is (maybe not in the most smooth sense), is a asset as a VP. One only has to look at Cheney to see that a VP that fires up the base, in spite of how much he irks the other side, is an asset.
August 16, 2008 6:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
The potential VP I'm thinking of is the one that said in response to Georgie's appeasement comments in Isreal: “This is bullshit, this is malarkey. This is outrageous, for the president of the United States to go to a foreign country, to sit in the Knesset ... and make this kind of ridiculous statement.”
August 16, 2008 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain just made a dumb move and started talking about reopening the water agreement which would affect Colorado and Senator Salazar responded (over my dead body - one of the few times he's actually right on an issue). The dems can use this one. It will be a big vote loser for McCain. Coloradoans are sensitive and pretty united when it comes to this issue.
I think if Obama picks the right VP by the time the convention is over things will swing his way in Colorado.
August 16, 2008 6:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm only surprised that they don't have ad going after McCain's statement yet. I'm pretty sure a commerical highlighting McCain's view on this water issue will saturate the airwave prior to and during the convention.
August 16, 2008 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wouldn't be surprised to see an Obama attack ad specially for Colorado over the water issue.
August 16, 2008 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama/Biden '08 -- I like it.
He might tend to shoot his mouth off, but that's a fine trait in a VP candidate. He can be the attack dog while Obama focuses on the positive.
August 16, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
And one thinks of all of the short list possibilities on McCain's VP list, Biden would chew any one of them up in the debate.
August 16, 2008 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does it seem to anyone else that Biden's visit to Georgia (at the request of their President) might be a nice prelude to his being announced as VP next week? I really like Biden and would be very happy for him to be the VP
August 16, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's hard to say, but I think Obama's people will be looking at the response on the blogs and message boards to the prospect.
Personally, I think Biden would be a good VP. During the election he's a good attack dog and during the administration willing to carry out the policies of Obama. Whatever gaffes he might do would not derail the general progress of an Obama Administration.
August 16, 2008 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please, can Biden call for some hearings on the Georgian situation when he returns, and finally get Randy Scheunemann where he belongs - in front of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee - This would be quite a show, wouldn't it! Then he could also appear before Waxman, and a few others - all in the midst of the campaign. Let's hope Scheunemann doesn't leave the country first however.
August 16, 2008 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent.
Let's leverage the power that we have.
August 16, 2008 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd love a few questions asking just what he advised Georgia's President (I admit - forgot how to spell his name - at least I can pronounce it) and whether his advice has been heeded. Then the same questions regarding his advice to McCain. And finally - were they keeping the State Dept in the loop, or going off the reservation?
August 16, 2008 8:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree that Biden would be a great VP nominee for Obama!
McCain could just play a loop of Biden in an ad saying how much he 'likes and respects John McCain and would be honored to run WITH him'. :)
Priceless!!!
Another good reason for Biden as a great choice is his mouth. Oh the possibilities during the campaign!
August 16, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. There is no other potential VP candidate better than Sen. Joe Biden.
August 16, 2008 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually it would play perfect into the meme that is developing with this campaign: That there was this McCain of the past, and there is new McCain.
All Biden has to do is say is: "I would have been proud to serve with the McCain that I knew, but this is McCain, this McCain I don't know him. Where did the McCain I knew go."
Who among us hasn't had someone change on us. I still remember the bumpersticker I saw some 20 years ago: "I'm still in love with my false image of you."
August 16, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh I guess that could be tried but it may look a bit....let's say.....POLITICAL?
Kinda like the trying to make McCain look like a 3rd term of Bush has panned out.
:)
August 16, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
look political?
Do you really think the average American doesn't see anything that a politician does as anything but political?
I mean, isn't really about who has the better political strategy?
August 16, 2008 6:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I only see what Obama does as political at this point.
McCain I see as making decisions he feels are best for the country.
Another point, Biden as VP also shows that Obama lacks in foreign policy experience. Not the 'shiny and new hopeful' message he's advertised.
He's getting desperate and knows he has to have a grown-up on the ticket and Americans are not stupid.
August 16, 2008 7:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, the first response is that if Americans aren't stupid why does Obama lead in the national polls (and at the worst tie with McCain). A liberal African-American junior Senator who leads overall in the polls against a POW maverick republican for President of the United States prior to the convention is not desparate. Even if that lead is .01%
And what if you suddenly understood that Obama was making decisions based on what he thought was best for the country.
the basic jest is that you think Obama doesn't care about the country, whereas McCain does. I happen to think that both believe his policies will be best for this country, and that Obama's approach and policies will actually stop our slide into a second-tier country.
August 16, 2008 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the bigger question is why in a year that is supposedly the Dem's, with all saying Obama should have at least a double diget lead, is he tied with and dropping in the polls against a Republican?
As to the rest, I respect your opinion that both candidates want what's best for the country. Unfortunately, I think Obama is so liberal that he is a communist.
There are too many reasons to list why Obama is not right IMO to be POTUS to list.
August 16, 2008 7:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
My response: It wasn't until 2006, yes in spite of it all 2006, that Bush fell below the 40% approval rating. It is these people that will vote McCain regardless of who the Democrats put up for election. So McCain has a built in base just as Obama. The question is why when you look at the tracking back to April, why McCain has not been able to make any movement beyond the 42%-44% range.
August 16, 2008 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, no, no, I am so liberal you might think I'm a communist (having greater appeal to me lately than fascists) and I assure you Obama is no liberal. He's "postpartisan".
August 16, 2008 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
The whole conversation about what "liberal" means is bigger than this thread. I was saying this in the over-simplified spectrum of liberal-conservation through which most dialogues look through when discussing politics. In this spectrum a poliitician is a centerist, a conservative, or a liberal, with the centerist having no ideological center and merely looking for the middle road regardless of the issue.
August 16, 2008 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Man, I type to slow...you totally beat me to the point.
August 16, 2008 7:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
But you totally play guitar better than me.
August 16, 2008 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but the lyrics of "Big Bottom" as it appeared on "This is Spinal Tap" could never match the philosophical beauty of your idea of the absurd as incorporated into "The Stranger".
August 16, 2008 8:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which would segue great into a commercial drawing clear distinctions between the John McCain of days gone by and the Rove-handled John McCain of 2008.
August 16, 2008 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Most Americans aren't as sharp as you. They don't have the bandwidth for convoluted Obama-like explantions.
August 16, 2008 7:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, flip-flopping is way over their heads - just ask President Kerry...oh, wait....nevermind.
August 16, 2008 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
How do you think Obama looked compared to McCain tonight? Like his head was growing into a point in front of your eyes? Like he was pandering a little? Like the 3 wisest people he could think of were his wife and grandmother. Like he's not sure when life begins? Maybe he was jet lagged?
August 16, 2008 10:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good job changing the subject.
FYI, I think Obama did very well holding his own this evening considering that the crowd was not exactly sympathetic to his views. Get back to me when we see McCain hold a similar forum in front of a progressive crowd. Oh, and by the way, did you know that McCain was a POW? I had no idea until tonight.
August 16, 2008 10:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
It could be followed by the several more recent comments from Biden about his dismay at the way McCain has changed. I saw the first time (or one of the first times) he said it - on Hardball I believe, maybe not - and the very real pain and disillusionment was clear on his face. Same with comments John Kerry has made - they feel personally betrayed by what McCain has done since 2004 but especially during this campaign. ---- No one is going to (or trying to) convince Americans that McCain was not a hero or a forceful, brave maverick at times. The message, a true one I fear, is that he has now sold his sold/become too unfocused/aged and is simply not that person any more.
Joe Biden is NOT a nasty-tempered, finger-pointing sort of person, not even for political convenience, so when he says, and shows, painful disappointment in someone he's clearly considered a friend, valued colleague ........... that says volumes about the other person. Let the clips roll!
Another issue -- hadn't thought of it before but it was McCain that said he talked daily to the Georgian president, not the Georgian president who said he **listened** daily to John McCain. Maybe the (the pres - won't try to spell it) wants to talk to someone he thinks will make sense and tell it like it is?
Finally, it's entirely appropraite for the Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations committee to go over there now, and - whatever the friction - Biden has always operated "on the reservation" and kept the Administration fully informed of his overseas contacts. If Obama had done what McCain has done (daily phone calls, sending 'envoys') the Bush administration would be jumping up and down screaming. But there's no objection from them to Biden's trip (that I've heard of) -- so perhaps it's unobjectionable and proper.
Obama/Biden '08
August 17, 2008 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, it was OSCE and the EU who "did the deal." But, you know, facts vs. punchline.
August 16, 2008 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Billy Glad,
Ok. So it been established, ur not fond of Barack Obama. Are u aware Sen. Biden is the chairman of the Foreign relations committee? the Georgian President requested Biden services not the Obama campaign. Get your facts straight...ok.
I hope u aren't one of those PUMA trolls?
August 16, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am aware that he never held one meeting as chairman of the Afghanistan committee or even visited the country until goaded by McCain.
August 16, 2008 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then you better get your facts straight because it's not a committee, it's a subcommittee and it doesn't have any direct oversight of Afghanistan.
August 16, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. It has direct oversight over NATO. Timely? He should be on top of the Georgian crisis, right? Should have been having hearings on MATO in Afghanistan, status of Georgia and NATO, Russian threats to NATO members. And instead? Running for President.
August 16, 2008 10:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
She didn't say anything about NATO, she said Afghanistan. Don't try to cover for her ignorance. In addition, when was McCain's last attendance at a committee hearing or a senate vote?
August 16, 2008 10:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nah. I just resent having to work so hard for an empty suit. I'll do it. But I don't like it. I think he could do his part and not be so god awful when he's not giving a canned speech. But, like someone said, you don't go into the election with the candidate you'd like to have, etc.
August 16, 2008 10:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too late.
August 17, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
The echo chamber in full cry!
August 16, 2008 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
How so?
It would seem to me that people are discussing (1) who sent Biden to Georgia, (2) the validity of Biden as a VP, and (3) the connection of Biden's trip to McCain sending Joe and Lindsey.
How is this an echo chamber?
August 16, 2008 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
How so?
It would seem to me that people are discussing (1) who sent Biden to Georgia, (2) the validity of Biden as a VP, and (3) the connection of Biden's trip to McCain sending Joe and Lindsey.
How is this an echo chamber?
August 16, 2008 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have to ask? You have to ask? LOL.
August 16, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please answer this question for me. I am not a 'troll' but I am curious as to what the average age of the people on this site are.
I am a 47 year old married mom from Missouri w/ 3 sons age 15, 17, & 26. Obama scares the crap out of me so I am trying to figure out if this site is mostly just young folks.
August 16, 2008 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm 43 with an 18 year old son. I live in the Midwest and work in a professional position that requires that I wear a tie everyday. Does this dispel your assumptions enough?
August 16, 2008 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Scares you in what respect?
August 16, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well your 17yo son is perfect draft age. McCain wants his own war as President and seemed pretty eager to pick a fight with Russia. Hell, getting into it with Russia likely means your 15yo will be needed by Uncle Sam McCain as well.
August 16, 2008 7:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I trust Senator McCain in that regard. After all, he has 2 sons in Iraq.
August 16, 2008 7:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes and both his sons are volunteers. If he loses his famous temper one day and starts wars with either Iran or Russia, our sons may not have the luxury of choosing whether or not to fight.
August 16, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
What, exactly, do you trust about McCain in that regard?
August 16, 2008 8:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
The draft is the one subject that would clarify everything. Ask each if they would ever institute the draft. The honest answer would be yes because there is no way tp predict the necessity of such a requirement. Any candidate that says no should be rejected.
August 16, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Both McCain and Obama will say No to a draft, partly becuase it is politically disaserous, but also the military doesn't want it. So your comment is rather idiotic since it would never happen, not just for political reasons but because it makes military sense.
August 16, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
and what bush and mcsame propose DOESN'T scare you ???
you're obviously not as stupid as you act
are you ???
cuz if you're serious that a well mannered and intelligent man scares you more than the boobs and incompetents in the repuglitard party, then you ain't got the mental capacity to understand the real world
keep drinking the repuglitard koolaide, and don't ask questions when your children are sent to die in Iraq or some other country that never attacked America
ignorance is a choice
stupidity isn't
which are you ???
August 16, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Never take counsel of your fears
Stonewall Jackson
August 16, 2008 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm a 48 yr old widow with 3 kids, and the idea of them being drafted to fight Russia scares the crap out of me. Let me tell you, I am NOT a Georgian and I have no desire to vote for a guy who makes cracks about the leader of the second most powerful nation on earth ("I looked into his eyes and saw K-G-B"). I want an adult in charge. For a change.
August 16, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm 68, male, raised in Buffalo, NY, live in CA, am a Democrat who liked Bill Clinton and doesn't trust HRC, am a realist in FP, and have supported Obama since one year ago. He's a risk because he's green and has minimal experience; but I think he is risk worth taking; I think he has the Right Stuff.
Now that these good people have answered your question, how about answer the theirs: What specifically about Obama scares you? Bonus question: What specifically in communistic about Obama's views and/or proposals?
August 16, 2008 9:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love how, to so many people, being younger than 40 disqualifies you from having a valid opinion. Full disclosure: I am an Obama supporter. With that said, though, why should it matter whether I'm 19 or 91?
August 16, 2008 10:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
LorinMo,
Hillary Clinton scares the crap out of just about everybody, what your point? Furthermore, if you or anyone else are so dissatisfied with Obama then go and voter for McCain, go support 100 yrs in Iraq, the erosion of civil liberties and civil rights, reproductive rights, foreclosures, affirmative action, job loss etc.
August 16, 2008 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You telling me to vote for McCain? Work for McCain? Send McCain money? How does that help elect Obama?
August 16, 2008 10:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
LorinMo,
I am 44 years old and I am a HUGE supporter of Obama. This is a Dem site but since Obama is the Democratic nominee, it supports Obama of course. However, we criticize Obama and its campaign if we feel it is warranted and we praise it when that is warranted as well.
August 16, 2008 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've seen a lot of sites and this one of the few that has contibutors that are consisently thoughtful while able to keep a sense of humor that isn't based on foul words and bathroom humor.
August 16, 2008 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden is going to be in Georgia Sunday. Now Obama could steal the Georgia issue from McCain if he announced Biden as his VP on Monday before Biden returned. The press announcing the decision would say "Senator Biden was unavailable for comment as he was in Georgia at the request of Georgian President Saakashvili"
Then when Biden returned, before talking to the press he could say he needed to meet with the Government officials to tell them what he saw. Only then he could meet with the Press, along with Sen. Obama.
August 16, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Obama camp might just have a position open for you.
August 16, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the responses. I have to say that yes, I am surprised there are middle aged folks and Midwesterners here. I assumed it was mostly ideological kids or University types.
August 16, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're welcome. As an Obama supporter from the begining, I'm a bit sensitive to people assuming I'm someone who is (a) younger than 30, (b) doesn't research the candidates, and (c) look to who everybody else is voting, and if that person is a "rock star" all the better.
August 16, 2008 7:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Add one more, I'm in my 60s, raised in the South, living in NY, an attorney who has taught law school, a centrist to liberal Dem my whole life, and a very proud Obama supporter. The Dem candidates I have supported with my whole heart during my years are JFK, Hubert Humphrey, Walter Mondale (for all the good that did me), John Kerry and now Obama. Biden was my 1st choice this year and I think he would be a great VP candidate and - actually more important - VP.
August 17, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
LorilnMo,
There are all types of people here.
August 16, 2008 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am watching the Debate on MSNBC, and let me say. Rick Warren is asking harder and better questions than the so called MSM moderators.
BO answered that abortion question well. I cant wait to see McCain.
August 16, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Blowhard Biden playing catchup for Soetoro.
Never leading, always responding, always explaning.
Clinton '08 or '12.
August 16, 2008 8:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your comment makes no sense whatsoever. Where has he always been behind, e.g. field office, fundraising, polls. Given that he was at the front of those denoucing the Iraq invasion, how is it that he always responding?
August 16, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
LoriinMo - you do realize, don't you, that as a person under the age of 60, you're in the minority? As in, the minority of people under 60 support McCain.
I put it down mostly to the fact that the over-60s were teenagers and adults during segregation and Jim Crow. And even now, 45 years later, they can't wrap their heads around the idea of a nigra president.
August 16, 2008 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way. To everyone who thinks Obama is going to look good compared to McCain in the debates and is watching McCain on TV right now ... Are we learning yet?
August 16, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain is KICKING BUTT!!!! I sort of felt sorry for Obama.
August 16, 2008 9:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have not heard one critisism of McCain's remark, "in the 21st century nations do not invade other nations" What in gods name is that about? how can any envoy of McCain have a cred?
August 16, 2008 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why is there an ad for the book "The case against Barack Obama" on TPM?
August 16, 2008 10:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
OT-
Over at Stoller's and Clemons' sites, I saw reports today that Wes Clark had been "disinvited" from the Denver Convention. Did that get discussed over here recently, or am I very late in learning about it (or is it not considered newsworthy)?
August 16, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great timing. This is the guy who led NATO to victory in Kosovo without the loss of a single American life. Think he'd be useful in the Georgia situation? How hard is Obama going to make this?
August 16, 2008 10:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kosovo was not a victory. Kosovo was a cock up of the highest order.
And what would you be doing now if you were Serbian tank commander (sitting in one of those Yugo tanks Nato notoriously failed to blow up in three months of bombing)?
August 17, 2008 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wishing I could kill Albanians? Hoping an A-10 doesn't smoke my ass? What was the last time America didn't anything right do you think?
August 17, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, could we get a little credible confirmation of that story before heading off with it full-tilt. This does not sound at all like the way Obama is handling things .... with anyone, certainly not someone of Gen. Clark's stature and strength, his civil opposition when he was supporting Hillary and his effective support as a surrogate. (Who says Obama was unhappy that someone questioned McCain's military leadership qualifications?)
It's very easy to start rumors if there is someone eager to run with them. I read both of the sites and there was no effort made to even hit at a source.
August 17, 2008 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with this need to get more definitive sourcing for this Obama-Clark business. Both Clemons and Stoller are well connected to knowledgeable Democratic insiders, though generally to different types of insiders (policy wonks in Clemons' case; political types in Stoller's). For that reason these reports seemed serious enough (IMHO) to prompt me to delurk over here.
August 17, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
All the things I thought were great about Obama's reasoned answers to Warren's questions CNN criticized as too nuanced and academic. All the simplistic pandering aswers by McCain CNN praised as direct and clear. He told the cross in the dirt story and the rejection of early release story. He said he knew what it was like to be without freedom. But he doesn't like to talk about his years in prison.
August 16, 2008 11:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
what is the most appropriate to be angry?
August 16, 2008 11:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
yes, the more people see it, the more Obama's reasoned answers are so much better than McCain's stuck record, not just internationally, but among peers, too.
August 17, 2008 12:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
We enjoyed a quiet evening on the patio, dining al fresco and watching the neighborhood seagulls head out at sunset. That's about as delightfully boring as it gets. :-) Sky
August 17, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
nice. g'night.
August 17, 2008 1:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
Biden?
Isn't he the guy that put Thomas on the Supreme Court?
.
August 17, 2008 2:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
.
I see somebody above saying that Georgia s strategic from the POV of the US. I assume they're thinking of the oil lines.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
The US gets no oil from the Caspian, and buggerall from the Middle East. America's unruly thirst for oil is fed almost completely by Canada and Venezuela, with an odd bit from Gabon, Alaska, Texas, and other minor players.
The Middle East feeds Europe, India, China and Japan. And none of these i particularly interested in tagging along with current Bush, or campaigning McCainite, foreign policy, which consists essentially of vain strutting.
August 17, 2008 2:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
So once again Hussein is playing catchup and Loose Lips Biden is off on his little day late junket.
This is a perfect example of how out of touch the ObaBots are with the real world. And how delusional.
The simple truth is that Hussein has been playing catchup to McCain all week. First Hussein made himself Putin's ButtBoy and you all swooned and now one week later he's done ANOTHER 180 and off goes Biden in McCain's dust.
And then of we get his vapid and incoherent performance with the Christians last night.
Real people watch his stuttering and mmmmmssss and know it for what it is, Hussein hedging his bets and trying "nuance" instead of honesty.
"Above my pay grade" indeed! What weasel words.
Then of course his wife and grandmother (is that the one he threw under the bus in Philadelphia?) as his wise advisers.
If true can we all spell whipped?
If just more pandering then well mmmm just more pandering.
And do read Frank Rich's vomitus in today's NYTimes.
He goes out of his way to prove, unintentionally, just how vacuous Hussein really is.
Funny thing about Fat Bastard (he and Olderman must go to the same dessert counter) he has yet to come up with a coherent positive rational for Hussein.
Wonder why that is?
August 17, 2008 6:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
JTHB,
I'm sure you're a big hit over on FreeRepublic.com, mindlessness rules over there, but here, people are much more than a mile wide/half inch deep, as is your usual audience.
August 17, 2008 7:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
In elections which is better:
A mile wide and an inch deep or
An inch wide and a mile deep?
Perhaps $51 million will buy another inch.
Perhaps $27 million will buy another mile.
August 17, 2008 7:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
"In elections which is better:
A mile wide and an inch deep or
An inch wide and a mile deep?"
Speaking of systems of measurement, I wonder how deep I can put my foot in your ass?
August 17, 2008 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
The truth about this shooting war is starting to trickle out. Turns out that when Rove was supposed to be testifying before Congress, he was on "vacation" in the Crimea. However, he instead had a meeting with Shakashvili, just 3 weeks before Georgia invaded South Ossetia. The invasion happened hours after Shakashvili signed a ceasefire agreement.
The line of thinking I am inclined towards is that McCain's Georgia lobbyist friend and Rove managed to talk Shakashvili into this invasion by promising to cover his back. Instead, they were trying to provoke a new Cold War with Russia, which would distract attention from Iraq and the economy, and toward the perceived foreign policy strength of McCain.
Conservatives (and just about everybody else) may hate McCain, but they are still beholden to the military industrial complex. There is nothing they would hate more than a peace-loving President who would redirect our tax money into rebuilding our country, rather than destroying others.
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080812_georgia_war_a_neocon_election_ploy/
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/14/1525/74622
August 17, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am a 51 yo ex republican -Veteran - steel-worker. Ive never missed a election since I was in the military --
Ive been reading this blog for near 2 years without ever bothering to log on but your question prompted me to.
I supported McCain in 2000 but ended up sadly casting my vote for bush. Right now i would not vote at all before i would cast my vote for him.
Obama would not have been my first pick but a continuation of the last 7 years would really harm this country for decades to come.
Think on this -- has your life improved under the current administration? are your kids safer?Do you feel more secure? I dont and I think its time for a change of direction for this great nation, so that its still great when we hand it over to our kids.8 more years [and who ever gets in will likely be in for 8 years]of the current disregard for the world -- the nation and the people and we well might be handing over a wasteland to our heirs.
Some things to ponder my friend.
A Savage
August 17, 2008 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Comments, ESP. the early ones were reply informative.
Great that Biden is going. This is an important issue that BO can't let McCain drown him out on.
Georgia really benefits from all the physical presence of Western leaders over there.
August 17, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eight years of Bush – Cheney has left me more that a little bit suspicious. Was this Georgian provocation of Russia timed to occur when Obama was on vacation? Just wondering. This is one my reasons for Biden, Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee by the way, to hold hearings on this situation asap, even if the full Senate is not in session. Check out the membership on this committee here: http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/about.html
Dodd, Kerry, Feingold and even Hagel would I’m sure have more than a few questions for Randy Scheunemann and Condi Rice. I don’t think Rice is smart enough to plot something like this. But Cheney and Rove certainly are crazy enough, aren’t they?
August 17, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Guess we can best judge whether there is a difference in Biden going, or Lieberman/Graham going, by the information / spin when they return.
August 18, 2008 12:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Regarding speculation that Senator Biden is going to be the Vice-Presidential nominee, I think the Country would be better served if President Obama nominated him to be Secretary of State. No-one doubts his expertise on foreign affairs and policy but others could do more at this stage in helping Obama win.
Also, his trip should be clearly a fact-finding mission not to announce American policy or negotiate as McCain has done. As bad as he is, when it comes to foreign policy, Bush is still our only President.
August 18, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink