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CBS News: Hillary's Body-Language Showed She Didn't Really Endorse Obama
We're going to be digging into examples today of media figures desperate to find some way, any way, of arguing that Hillary's speech yesterday was in fact a tacit non-endorsement of Obama.
And here's a doozy of the first order. CBS News actually called up body-language experts and got them to say that her gestures "belied" her strongly-voiced support for the Illinois Senator. Said one expert...
"One of the things that you see is she has very limited hand gestures. And we look for hand gestures to tell us what's important. So, when we see them out, when we see them up, this is significant. And we saw them just a few times last night, but not enough. This was not an impassioned speech."
Breaking: Secret footage reveals Hillary delivered non-endorsement by blinking it in morse code!
Just awful.
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Please stop.
August 27, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, please don't spend your time digging into this. Seriously. Enough. We agree and get it, but there are bigger fish to fry.
This just propagates the Clinton psycho-drama when we need to figure out how to beat McCain.
No more drama.
http://strategy08.wordpress.com
August 27, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, Greg. Repeating it only makes it seem more true. Let's all move on. The MSM want this story line to continue and will do anything they can to continue to manufacture some kind of discord.
Stop repeating the lies!
NO WAY. NO HOW. NO MCCAIN!
August 27, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree. The sorry state of American media is a hugely relevant topic, and topical examples of its crassness are quite newsworthy.
I'd be disappointed if TPM started burying stories like this based on calculations of which candidate was helped or hurt by them.
August 27, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think it hurts Hillary or Obama whatsoever, esp. not here.
It only hurts CBS News to be constantly revealed as idiots for manufacturing controversy!
August 27, 2008 12:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
what you said.
August 27, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree.
It apparently hurts some readers' eyeballs (understandable), but that can be solved by just not reading. OCD is the responsibility of the sufferer.
And I'm inclined to think Greg and Eric are better judges of which topics do and do not waste their time. After all, it's their time.
August 27, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree.
It apparently hurts some readers' eyeballs (understandable), but that can be solved by just not reading. OCD is the responsibility of the sufferer.
And I'm inclined to think Greg and Eric are better judges of which topics do and do not waste their time. After all, it's their time.
August 27, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Topics of the general inanity of the MSM are welcomed and encouraged. In that case, let's talk about how the cable networks are covering the convention by not showing most of the convention. Let's talk about the endless echo chamber ... of which the "division" narrative is a small part.
But, that's not what this post is. This post is mainly repeating the lies while criticizing them. It's the same problem with the New Yorker cover ... by constantly covering the lies it only serves to reinforce the lies. The more it is heard (even if it is heard with criticism that follows it) the more people believe it.
August 27, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
See NCSteve's post for a good treatment of that subject.
Amen. Sounds like a good topic for you to write a TPM Cafe post on.
(Emphasis mine) I hear ya. But those exaggerations don't help, either.
I guess it's a matter of degree. I just can't imagine this post doing any measurable damage. OTOH, judging by the volume of comments, it has served this community's need to let off a little snark very well. And it does serve to underline the MSM inanity you mentioned.
August 27, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's a criticism of the MSM that I don't believe just repeats distortions.
"Media Hype and Election Polls (or the sky is falling)"
http://msa4.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/media-hype-and-election-polls/
August 27, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you, completely!!!!
August 27, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
ditto
August 27, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I couldn't disagree more. It's important to call "bullshit" on these MSM shennanigans (shenanigans?).
The GOP is using the "3AM phone call" snippet against Obama. The best way to fight that is to have the person who said it on record as supporting Obama. If she supports Obama, that whole line of ads is rendered practically impotent.
She tried to close the rift. If the MSM succeeds in keeping that rift open with this crap, the GOP wins. In order to stop them, we need to expose the MSM whenever they do this. Even if that means defending Hillary Clinton.
August 27, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
J---- F------ C-----. It's Hillary Clinton! She's scripted, that's how she acts!
She had the same damn body language when she was campaigning for HERSELF!!!
Maybe if the "body language expert" (LOL) watched some old clips, they'd know that. Or if they hadn't been in the cave for the last year. Hey Einstein, you don't get YouTube in your cubicle???
August 27, 2008 12:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's what I thought as well. How was that at all different from any of her other campaign appearances? That's just how she campaigns. It's like they went into it with no frame of reference despite the 1000s available instantly on YouTube.
Really puts the BS in CBS! They're just desperate to have BS psychodrama to cover, rather than real issues, which actually takes some work to dig into it, unlike random blabbing.
Wasn't there a seminal New Yorker article years ago about it?
August 27, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Frankly, after seeing her last night, I thought that she didn't have her heart in her own campaign and that last night was genuine. Guess I should keep my day job and not hold any aspirations to being a body language expert. Or, maybe I should be interviewed on TV!
August 27, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ms Six,
What I want to know is why you and the MSM have not revealed a fact enormously pertinent to this campaign. If only the American people knew more.....
"The Twelfth Cylon Revealed"
http://msa4.wordpress.com/
August 27, 2008 1:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, she's 100% phony-looking even when she's talking about something she cares about, and even when she's telling the truth.
August 27, 2008 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
What to you mean please stop? Please stop noticing conservative misinformation in the media? My suggestion is that you "please stop" being a gull.
August 27, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please kill me now.
August 27, 2008 11:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
Someone should keep track of how many times this bullshit pops up in media accounts.
Truly dreadful "journalism".
Truly.
August 27, 2008 12:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, maybe they'll hire the same folks to evaluate McCain. He's only half the liar she is.
August 27, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did CBS News suddenly become Us Magazine? That is the type of feature they run usually to figure out what Jennifer Aniston is really feeling about Brad Pitt's new twins or crap like that.
The MSM's coverage of this convention has been absolutely horrible.
August 27, 2008 12:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wouldn't be surprised if she's still not totally on board, but I can't blame her. She put her heart and soul into her campaign and I think the idiot pundit class has unrealistic expectations for Democrats.
Having said that, I think she did an absolutely magnificent job last night. Now if only her "staff" would go away and the pundits would report what the Dems are saying about McCain instead of being psychiatrists, it would serve our nation well. That, however, may be too much to ask.
Their analysis of this convention is horrifying. Maybe they should stop talking and listen to what people are saying before they draw their "conclusions" on what did or did not happen.
August 27, 2008 12:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Especially if that "staff" included Big Dog.
Considering how much back-off to Mark Penn she showed (to her credit), I wonder if she'd have had him on staff if it weren't for Bill? Of course, without Bill she wouldn't be there in the first place, so it's very academic.
August 27, 2008 12:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish people would just get over. People are just over analyzing, trying to make something out to be bad. Hillary was convincing and if people who haven't switched over to Obama, probably weren't voting on the issues but rather on emotion. I saw some crazy lady on CNN getting upset and almost crying because Hillary wasn't the nominee. Its like, come on people, this is politics not religion. Why do people go psycho over politicians? I think McCain should pay for their therapy sessions.
Video: Keith Vs. Chris Another Awkward MSNBC Moment
August 27, 2008 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
No kiddin- does anyone still watch CBS? No, really. Anyone?
August 27, 2008 12:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good point. Someone ought to doublecheck that the body language "expert" actually said what was said in response to what was actually asked...
August 27, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
What do the handwriting experts say? Come on, body language experts?!? We may as well be reading auras here.
August 27, 2008 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just want to go on record saying I don't watch CBS either. I find that station boring and useless.
Video: Keith Vs. Chris Another Awkward MSNBC Moment
August 27, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Any more impassioned, and the "experts" would say her hand gestures betrayed sublimated rage against Obama for her flouted ambitions.
Blecch.
August 27, 2008 12:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
And of course there will be little to no such trash analysis done by CBS during the Repub convention. Mark it down.
August 27, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
You got it.
August 27, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ok, now this is silly. What is it with these stupid body language "experts"? Give me a gd break. I can't stand the corporate right-wing media. Something has to be done!!!
I actually thought that she did a great job and her "body language" looked very similar to speeches that she did while campaigning. WTF! I really, really expected something different and I was pleasantly surprised.
August 27, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Last night i sent a hate letter to PBS (the most trusted) on just this thing. Throughout the convention proceedings they insisted letting David Brooks and Mark Shields chatter their brainless interpretations. It has become obvious to me that the MSM is trying to drive public opinion like cattle herders.
No responce back from PBS yet.
Moo
August 27, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
CBS, I'm holding up my middle finger in your direction. Break that down for me.
http://pufferfish.typepad.com/
August 27, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Spectral analysis of the color of the skin under your fingernail reveals you had roast beef for dinner. Beef is well known to have an amino-acid mix that heightens feelings of anger and rage.
A resident expert astrologist notes your finger is pointed directly at an ascendant Jupiter, which suggests your gesture is really intended for ABC news and not CBS at all.
August 27, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gotta watch those astrologers. They are closet Hillary supporters.
August 27, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice. I needed that.
I fully expect the same kind of ridiculous crap next week. Not.
August 27, 2008 12:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Could you please reconsider?
August 27, 2008 12:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo. This is a terrible waste of Greg and Eric's time.
http://strategy08.wordpress.com
August 27, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Edward Murrow must come out of the grave and end this bullshit.
It's official: The MSM have endorsed McCain. For what purpose? For what greater good? Their ratings and profits.
I know what you'll say already: No shit, Sherlock! I know that. I'm just leaving this on the record.
August 27, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I mentioned in the first Hillary Speech thread last night, people missed the most obvious clue of all that she was speaking in code to disaffected PUMAS and McCain followers. From her opening remarks:
'My friends.' It's right there. /snerk
August 27, 2008 12:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
CPAN is the only channel we are watching the convention on. The others are competing for the most spin all the time!
August 27, 2008 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, I think they are competing for how little of the convention one must show during convention coverage.
I got really annoyed at the end of Monday when all the pundits were talking about how unsuccessful the night was and how the Dems weren't doing what they needed to do. Um ... well, since you didn't WATCH the convention and rather just talked about it and patted yourselves on the back for how smart you are, of course you don't think that they did what they should have done.
I remember watching the conventions as a kid with my parents and it was way different 20 or more years ago. You actually ... saw the convention.
I never thought I would say this ... but, boy, do I love C-SPAN.
August 27, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
The whole time she was speaking, Hillary was contradicting herself in sign language!
If you just had the secret code, you could have known just what she was really saying: Elect Me! Obama has al the know-how of a Bulgarian shoe salesman - Elect Me!
I really wish our media had something better to do - like weave rag rugs and make baskets in a nice Home for the Raving Lunatics who Used to be on TV.
August 27, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good news: Thankfully, the MSM jackasses have only 24 hours and a few primetime hours to trash Hillary speech before they can tell us how Bill unraveled a coded plan calling for Obama assisination.
August 27, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've heard that MSNBC has booked Miss Cleo so a proper Tarot Card analysis can be performed on Bill's speech.
August 27, 2008 12:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
ABC is reporting that her aura went green every time she said Obama's name. Also, the vortexes in Sedona were all aquivery. And the groundhog in that town in Pennsylvania (what down do they do the Groundhog day festival?) jumped just a little bit.
Jesus, MSN needs to go back to school and take a couple courses in rationality.
August 27, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
What about the tornadoes?
How can you call yourself a respectable journalist and miss such obviously relevant details like the tornado omens?
August 27, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
The tornadoes? They are reporting that they were all twisty--which is GOOD NEWS FOR JOHN MCCAIN....
August 27, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why do bird signs get no love anymore?
August 27, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
What about crop circles?
August 27, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Punxsutawney.
I'm loving this thread!
August 27, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks--now I gotta figure out how to say that!
August 27, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
*smacks palm on forehead*
I can't believe this. You know, Hillary could have broken into tears while declaring her undying love and support for Obama and it still wouldn't have been good enough.
August 27, 2008 12:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama1st beat me to the CSPAN comment. Out here on the West Coast, I am still often in my car during the big speeches and NPR is doing a pretty decent job covering the convention. I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a dull pencil than watch the relentless narrative weaving on either the big three or CNN.
August 27, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here is an idea ..why doesn't TPM TV show us the body language of people watching the MSN convention coverage and report on the viewers body language. I bet you'll see alot of raised middle fingers and shouts of disgust and anger!
August 27, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
yeah, and that pride on Bill Clinton's face when Hillary was speaking? It was actually anger. (sigh, I'm really starting to loose my faith in our media...)
August 27, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oyoyoy, the Clintons as diabolical schemers proves so easy to draw on that these so-called "news organizations" can't resist.
The coverage in this election calls for a comparative study with other elections since the first Iraq war and the introduction of the 24-hour news cycle.
Coming soon, we've got Ron Paul hosting a convention opposite the GOP whose 72 year old nominee with almost certainly select a pro-choice or wildly underqualified vp. We'll see what the MSM does with that.
August 27, 2008 12:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really... Even though such nonsense is obvious to most, some people will scan this story and repeat it as a genuinely ominous development. If a lie (or an inanity) is repeated often enough, it becomes the truth.
August 27, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank God for C-Span
August 27, 2008 12:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only rationale Hillary gave for her supporters to vote for Obama was their agreement on the issues. She said nothing about his background or personal qualities that would justify support.
Her hope of becoming President on an I told you so theme in 2012 depends on Barack losing in November. Rendell and Strickland will sit on their hands in PA and OH to help her plan.
August 27, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
O for heaven's sake -
I really wish y'all would give this 2012 bullshit a rest. Yall made that up - HIllary Clinton has never given one indication that that was her thinking.
The only place I've seen this idea is online, on blogs. That's just how far-fetched this whole fantasy is.
August 27, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only rationale? You say this as if, in all earnestness, you mean seriously for us to believe that the issues are some niggling token reason. Sen Clinton made clear that on the points that really matter (i.e. the issues) she and her supporters have more in common with Sen Obama than with Sen McCain. Does it really matter that she did not remark that Obama is also a better dancer than McCain, or that Sen Obama's high school had a better track and field team than Sen McCain's? Really, be serious, do.
August 27, 2008 12:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I noticed that, too. That's what I was hoping to hear, and it didn't come.
Still, I thought it an excellent speech and likely quite effective re getting all but the most radical Hillaristas on-board.
August 27, 2008 12:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought Hillary was exactly the same as she was through the primaries - wooden and painful to watch. Still, she made a great speech and put out the right message. The Clintons just have a pathological need for drama - it'll all be fine, the Hillary voters will come home.
August 27, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny, I was thinking how much better a speaker she had become since the early days of the campaign. It really was painful to watch and listen to her then, but I thought she was terrific last night, both in content and in delivery. She knocked it out of the park. Bill and Barack have a tough act to follow.
August 27, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did someone spike the Democrat Punch bowl with some highly concentrated repug kool-aid?
August 27, 2008 12:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
How in the hell do we impeach the press??? Seriously! I think the last thing we need is a reporter shield law, we need to reign these a-holes in!
Needed laws:
-Prohibit playing campaign commercials as a part of a news broadcast or commercial entertainment show (should be considered an in-kind donation at full market value).
-Define journalism. Neither O'Reiley nor Colbert are journalists. They should not be allowed to operate under the protections of journalism - they should operate under the rules of commercial entertainment broadcasts.
-Clearly define the standards for "off-the-record" quotations and implement a mechanism that prevents journalists profiting by providing information laundering services.
-Make it illegal to quote ELECTED officials anonymously (you lose the right to anonymity when you take an oath of office). Prohibit APPOINTED officials being quoted off the record except in cases where they are exposing wrongdoing and might suffer real retaliation. Damage to reputation should NOT be a viable reason to grant anonymity.
Ok, I'll stop ... sorry .... rant over. The media is really pissing me off.
August 27, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Only one word for the MSM-GOP attempts to keep harping on / harassing Hillary: dead-enders.
August 27, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR MCCAIN!!!
August 27, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Always great timing.
August 27, 2008 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahh, thanks idiotic!
August 27, 2008 12:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sternly Worded Letter (SWL) to CBS, iniating in five, four, three, two....
Pure and utter bullshit! Do your job mainstream media.
For example: The US has been vetoed from maintaining a troop presence in Iraq until 2015, the Iraqi president said today.
Jalal Talabani said 2011 emerged as the compromise date in negotiations between US and Iraqi officials. The US wanted to remain longer; Iraq had pushed for a 2010 pullout.
US officials confirmed there was a draft agreement but said it needed to be put to both governments and the Iraqi parliament for approval or amendment........"It was a US proposal for the date which is 2015, and an Iraqi one which is 2010, then we agreed to make it 2011. Iraq has the right, if necessary, to extend the presence of these troops," Talabani said in an interview with al-Hurra television.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/aug/27/iraq.usa
August 27, 2008 12:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I already wrote a bunch of people last night via the email I got from the Obama campaign about the smear ads.
I love the way the campaign is doing this - they ask their supporters to organize here and then act. They treat the online community the same way that online organizers always have and it's brilliant.
August 27, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, it almost had to be ... the "split" between Obama and Clinton is the only "story" story that the MSM has. The alternative would be actual assessments of issues, and who among that crowd of yakkers has any knowledge whatever of any substantive issues?
FWIW, I watched all the speeches from Sibelius (zzzz, I see why she's not the VEEP) through Clinton. I have to say, Clinton defined "classy" in that speech. She really rose to the occasion. She made a lot of people remember why they voted for her.
The better candidate gave the concession speech of a lifetime on the podium last night. Too bad so few people seem to have listened.
Thanks.
mp
August 27, 2008 12:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was with you until "better candidate"
August 27, 2008 12:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
The better candidate won.
August 27, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
NO doubt about it, this is idiotic on the part of CBS. Ten million different explanations could be given for her motive based on "body language" and this is but one. In this case, it doesn't matter if deep down inside she really is still disappointed and all that bullshit. What matters is what she said last night and that indicates beyond any doubt that, in the best speech she's ever given, Hillary Clinton backed Obama 100% and made a very, very effective case for her supporters and all Americans to do so. If she didn't still have regrets she wouldn't be human. It must be incredibly disappointing to lose such a race and her "body language" via hand gestures may just as well indicate that remorse and disappointment as well as anything else. Bottom line is that this was stupid of CBS and has no meaning or importance at all.
August 27, 2008 12:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
While we're talking body language, I checked out the hidden meaning of her pantsuit. From about.com, an article by Jacci Howard Bear:
Flamboyant and Energetic : Orange is vibrant...has a bit less intensity or aggression than red, calmed by the cheerfulness of yellow.
If you want to get noticed without screaming, consider the color orange โ it demands attention.
In keeping with its transitional appearance in nature, you might use shades of orange to indicate transition or a bridge between two opposing factors.
Use it to get people thinking or to get them talking.
Hmmm. This just screams 2012 to me ;-)
August 27, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well if you mean better than Obama, than I'm sorry but that's nonsense and she spent a half hour telling you that herself last night.
You can't take one stunning speech and use that as the evidence that she's a better candidate - in the first place, she's not, cause she lost.
August 27, 2008 12:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
A thought experiment-
Let's imagine that the political process playing out before us is happening in another country, and we're watching it on TV. My bet is that we would be slapping our knees and howling with laughter...
August 27, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Forget the viewers I would like to see George Soros hire a panel of body language experts to view and report on network and cable news pundits.
August 27, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Two points on this:
1. Rome is burning, and we seem obsessed by one invented psycho drama after another that means nothing. What's the point, except to fill air space, and make up something silly to talk about, all of which destracts us, and enables Rome to keep burning.
2. These people are lawyers, (like myself). We defend people we believe are guilty because that's the way our system works. Politicians support people they feel are inferior to them for the same reason. That's the way things work here.
August 27, 2008 12:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Calm down, people. We won't really know anything until the tea leaf-reader gets a look at the dregs of Biden's drink tonight, and the phrenologist is finished examining the shape of Bill Clinton's skull. And I've heard that CBS has an oracle on standby to read entrails for us after Obama's remarks tomorrow night. That'll tell the story!
August 27, 2008 12:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL! Don't forget about Michelle's horoscope and Biden's bloodtype.
August 27, 2008 12:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bah, reading tea leaves and measuring skulls is pure superstition and poppycock.
The ONLY way to get accurate predictions about the political future is through splengthoscopy -- the careful examination of protusions found on the livers of freshly slaughtered goats!
August 27, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, in public speaking class I was told to keep hand gestures to a minimum because it will start to look like a ploy.
August 27, 2008 12:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
We're talking about the people who couldn't handle the "substance" of Katy Couric. They're not that into women, just ask Lara Logan. "Body language experts" are the last resort of people who aren't able to administer "lie detector tests." Maybe they should spend a little less time focusing on female politicians' bodies. There's a word for that kind of obsession: creepy.
August 27, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sometimes I really give up hope that my country will finally stop freaking me out so fucking much. This is one of those times...
August 27, 2008 12:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Body language experts.. Losers. A frenologist told me her skull prodrudes not like a Democrat but actually a Whig.. No shit. A feng shui consultant also told me her speech was inasuspicious because there weren't enough east pointing right angles on the stage..
August 27, 2008 12:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's a fairly loose use of the word "we" there. I think your comment would have been more accurate if you'd used "the MSM" instead of "we."
Cause this bullshit that the MSM wants me to care about doesn't mean a thing to me.
August 27, 2008 12:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can we start a new practice and, instead of "MSM", use "LSM"? (Lame Stream Media)
Just a thought.
Watching the cable news and gossip sites drive formerly respectable journalism operations like CBS to pull crap like "body language" experts up like that's anything but bone-jarringly stupid and useless is making me crazy.
24/7 talking beauty queens and hairdos need to die a slow and painful death.
Doesn't anyone on the tube have any backbone any more?
August 27, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kos has suggested traditional media instead of MSM, mainly because only us experienced politicos know what MSM means. Also, because mainstream isn't easily defined. Traditional media is rather obvious, and of course, subtly demeaning.
August 27, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
How 'bout Old School Media?
August 27, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Legacy Media.
As in, it's still around but only die-hards still use it.
August 27, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno. I think I prefer Lame Stream Media is more insulting, and those thick-headed bumble-fucks don't seem to be getting the message.
August 27, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
edit: ".... because it is more insulting..."
August 27, 2008 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to DailyKos and TV By the Numbers...no, people aren't watching CBS anymore. Their viewership is down 24% from the 2004 convention.
August 27, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
OT: Is this the start of a stealth attack on McCain's Age Issue?
Politico has a bit of an interview with Pat Leahy in which he compares McCain's mental gaffes to the waning years of Reagan's presidency:
And an email I got from Democrats.com demands that McCain take a test for Alzheimer's.
Fair game, I say. If you're gonna run for president, prove that your mind can handle the rigors of the gig.
August 27, 2008 12:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Such BS--
I've been supporting Obama since last year, and was really disgusted by the way Hillary was running her campaign and her refusal to stretch it out when the math was impossible.
I think she was truly sincere last night. Through this campaign I think she has grown as a person, and she herself rediscovered what this is all about.
I think the following part of the speech was as much a reminder to herself, as it was to her supporters:
August 27, 2008 12:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Seriously, the best part of Hillary's speech was its cunning delivery and a body language we would have all died to see during the primaries. Many feel that this is the real Hillary, untethered by Penn and Wolfson's puppet strings.
August 27, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I absolutely do, too. She was on fire like I never saw her in the primary She was so compelling in her arguments FOR Barrack Obama as president that she would have converted me on the spot if I wasn't already an Obama supporter.
August 27, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sigh. Those strings running through Penn and Wolfson end up in Bill's hands, doncha think?
I kinda think she wouldn't have picked Penn et al. if Bill hadn't pushed him. OTOH, it's up to her to resist, and she didn't. It suggests that if she were elected, we truly would have gotten a Billary administration.
Live by the Big Dog; die likewise.
August 27, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Couldn't they find any psychics willing to explain how her aura contradicted her words? No astrologers willing to sully their reputations by saying the planets indicated insincerity?
August 27, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
It should be more than apparent that the MSM has been totally co-opted by the right wing. Next we will see an astrologer, palm reader and tea leaves. I am sorry but this is the biggest bunch of bullshit that I have ever seen. We know which side the media has been on for this and the last two elections. Yet, we will not call them out for what they are. The comments that I hear here are similarly lame. It is time to go after the media. It is time to go after both McCain and the Republican party through negative issue ads. But we are the party of wussies who will stand back and lose yet one more time.
August 27, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
It should be more than apparent that the MSM has been totally co-opted by the right wing. Next we will see an astrologer, palm reader and tea leaves. I am sorry but this is the biggest bunch of bullshit that I have ever seen. We know which side the media has been on for this and the last two elections. Yet, we will not call them out for what they are. The comments that I hear here are similarly lame. It is time to go after the media. It is time to go after both McCain and the Republican party through negative issue ads. But we are the party of wussies who will stand back and lose yet one more time.
August 27, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, given that the MSM is going to spin and twist and basically give the McCain campaign lots of support for free, how in the hell do we win this???
August 27, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Extra!! Extra!!
Vocal inflection and body motion expert has determined that all major corporate media pundits are right-wing oligarchs trying to protect their capital gains and dividend tax cuts, as well as hoping to eliminate the estate tax so their children can be as successful and self-made as GW.
Also, their annual salary increases are tied to how positive a spin they can put on McCain and how negative a spin they can slap on Obama.
Any 'news' reported by them should be considered biased utter bull pucky.
End of story.
August 27, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice. :)
August 27, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great going, CBS. A body language expert -- exactly what intelligent viewers want to see and learn.
Maybe CBS "news" can sic their body language expert on Michelle & Barack's two adorable daughters. It's possible those two cute little girls were actually sending secret messages to the masses as they spoke to their Daddy after their Mom's speech.
Somewhere in the Great Beyond, Edward R. Murrow is about to puke.
August 27, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess that means McStain will NEVER be into his speeches, seeing as how his hand jesters are limited as a result of his POW years.
See, even I can invoke the POW meme on completely unrelated topics.
You try!
August 27, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is irritating...but less irritating that the notion of the "disembodied" language Bill evidently plans on (not) using tomorrow night. What is wrong with him? (no answer required, or perhaps even possible; rhetorical question.)
August 27, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Meanwhile, have any of the networks contacted Nancy Reagan's astrologist to weigh in on any of this? I can see that being somehow put to use, at the rate things are going.
August 27, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama vs the Clintons, MSM, McCain, the Republicans, body language experts and etc....
August 27, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought only Fox News was allowed to use body language experts.
August 27, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did anyone else see Bill mouthing "I love you" not once, not twice but three times! as HRC gave her speech?
August 27, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
No. Did he really?
I'm sorry, I'm giggling. Poor ol Big Dawg -going to spend the rest of his life trying to make up for the first half.
August 27, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I kid you not. It was as if he knew the cameras were on him too.
August 27, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
OH YEAH? WELL, MY EYE LANGUAGE EXPERT SAYS YOUR BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT IS FULL OF SHIT!
August 27, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg,
Please stop talking about Hillary Clinton, please. Hillary said her peace, now lets move on from the Clintons. Pls, don't play the MSM game.
August 27, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Got them to say" Greg? Like they called up and said, we'll give you $10,000 if you come on TV and say her heart wasn't in it? There's no chance in the world that these are professionals who know what they're talking about, or at least believe they do? It's pathetic that you actually set out to find this stuff, and then to insert such disrespect for these people's work just makes you look like a buffoon. Damn right her heart wasn't in it -- anyone could see that, and don't get bent if someone who studies this shit says so on TV. It's real.
WTF is Greg Sargent's thing with Hillary Clinton? Holy Christ.
August 27, 2008 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, according to my secret decoder ring, her real message was, "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine"...
August 27, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean it's all just a crummy commercial?
August 27, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
The NYT article was chock full of unsubstantiated innuendo, more reminscent of the National Enquirer than a reputable news outlet - multiple references to "friends" and "advisers" speculating as to Clintons' state of mind, without a single quote. In other words, gossip.
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/08/was-that-the-ny-times-i-picked.php
August 27, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Armchair,
I disagree, that was a rock solid innuendo!
August 27, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
The New York Times has always had it in for the Clintons.
August 27, 2008 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Though this story line has been overblown by the media, there is - I am afraid - a grain of truth in it. Actually, the hype may precipitate one positive outcome: Hillary failed to say that Obama will be ready for a 3 a.m. international crisis on Day One. All this chatter about about Hillary's sin of omission may force Bill Clinton to boldly assert tonight - in no uncertain terms - that Obama will(/b)be ready on Day One. I need to hear those words. The country needs to hear those words.
August 27, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary Clinton could save someone's life by giving them mouth to mouth and CPR, and the only outcome, other than the rescued life, would be arrest for sexual assault.
August 27, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe the pantsuit was a little tight around the shoulders. Those aren't the easiest things to tailor,...
not passionate enough? What's more passionate than the peach sorbet color on the suit? Sweet Georgia!
August 27, 2008 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
August 27, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain's eyes have the same vagueness that my mother's eyes had as she began hiding her loss of memory. One of the first symptoms that became clear to me is the way she answered questions by asking someone else for the answer. McCain frequently says he will have to check with his handlers staff for the answer to some normal question.
We need to be very sure McCain has no advance notice of the debate questions, and no wire going into his ear.
No way will Rove allow McCain to be screened for Alzheimer's before he becomes selected, but perhaps a citizen clamor for this test would bring the point home to senior citizens who might otherwise vote for him.
Pay close attention to his VP choice, because the odds are high that he will have to take control.
August 27, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink