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Report: Obama Will Speak At Victory Column, Not Brandenburg Gate

Very early this morning, Bloomberg News cited a report in the German press saying that Obama will not speak at Brandenburg gate in Berlin next week:

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama will give a speech at the Victory Column in central Berlin, avoiding the Brandenburg Gate after a political spat broke out over plans to speak there, Berliner Zeitung said.

A stage will be set up at the column, a 19th-century fluted structure that lies at the opposite end of a tree-lined boulevard from the Brandenburg Gate, the newspaper said. The campaign will announce the plans for July 24 today, it said.

An appearance at the Victory Column, capped by its trademark gilded angel, will still give the Illinois senator the Brandenburg Gate as a backdrop in the distance.

Politico also linked this morning to a German language version. And here's an English language version from the German press.

If true, it seems like a pretty solid compromise. But the report is un-sourced. The Obama campaign is refusing to confirm it, though it isn't denying it, either. And Berlin City Hall declined to comment to us, too.

We'll let you know if we confirm.


79 Comments

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It seems to me that we are under-estimating the gamble that Obama is taking.

If we are to believe the talking heads and pundits, a popular reaction to Obama in Europe can have huge negative consequences and cause a huge backlash in America. Indeed, that is exactly how the McCain camp is trying to spin it. Turn on "Morning Joe" this morning and everything about it was the risks for Obama.

Obama is making the bet that even the average, middle-Americans that the media assumes would recoil at the notion of European popularity, will actually react positively. In his mind, it seems, Americans from all walks of life want the image of America to be improved in the rest of the world.

Now, I agree with Obama that all Americans SHOULD want to see that. But I don't know what their reaction will actually be. Therefore, Obama is, in fact, making a pretty big gamble here.

http://strategy08.wordpress.com

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readers, can you alert us to any examples of pundits predicting that the europe trip will be politically bad for obama?

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Should we just link you to Michelle Malkin's and Hugh Hewitt's web sites?

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well, preferably msn pundits. it's a no brainer that the wingnuts would say that, y'know?

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Greg, what's the best way to get this to you? talk@talkingpointsmemo.com?

By the way, I wasn't saying pundits were explicitly predicting it would be bad for Obama (although I'm sure those pundits exist). More that they discuss the "risks vs. rewards" with heavy emphasis on the risks. And those risks almost always begin with the American people re-coiling at the notion of being popular in Europe.

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yep -- that email address is right

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Are you interested in Dan Rather saying that Jesse Jackson paved the way for Osama Bin Laden? That happened at 7:30ish AM on Morning Hack, just prior to all the risk v. reward Concern Trolling.

"But Chuck Todd, doesn't your crystal ball say that Americans might agree with John McCain's not-at-all biased pre-disposition toward slagging everything Obama does before Obama does it and then later changing your policy to match his? Chuck Todd?"

I find it comical that McCain and his surrogates are slamming Obama for "having his mind made up" before he even leaves the country, and yet it's okay for them to have their minds made up about the content of Obama's speech and the impact of Obama's trip before he even leaves the country. If you don't travel, you're inexperienced. If you do travel, it's just a political trip. But when I travel, it's for informational purposes only. Hypocrite much?

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"readers, can you alert us to any examples of pundits predicting that the europe trip will be politically bad for obama?...well, preferably msn pundits. it's a no brainer that the wingnuts would say that, y'know?" Since the entire MSM is climbing on the Obama love train for his European road trip, I doubt there's many knocking it right now.

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"Obama love train"? Obviously, your television is broken. Just because anchors are going out to cover it doesn't mean that the coverage is going to be 100% positive, guy. Get a grip.

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They're not just "covering" it. The big 3 are broadcasting there nightly news shows out of the back of the Obama love train. If they were broadcasting from the Straght Talk Express y'all would be having seizures...don't deny it.

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If McCain had wanted more coverage of his big trip to the Middle East last month, he should have actually invited the network anchors along. But he didn't.

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Maybe he's just not a "Photo-op whore" like the BigO...

Surely you aren't suggesting John "I walked through a Baghdad market with 100 soliders and three black hawks to prove that Baghdad was safe" McCain isn't a media WHORE?

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...at least he didn't bring Katy, Brian and (who ever the other scrub is) with him to chronical every step of the walk.

what the hell? have you assumed fogu2 identity today? usually your posts are somewhat tolerable but today you are off your medication...

Yes, poor Republicans, after a month of lopsided hostility against Obama over the most trivial B.S.... they're actually going to cover a politically significant event! The horror!

Pat Buchanan said yesterday that because Merkel and Sarkozy like Bush they might be cool to Obama. He thought this might be a problem.

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Pat Buchanan also said this. Any surprise that he's likely to spin things negatively for Obama?

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That said, there was a good op-ed by a German re: Merkel and this speech that explains why she might like Bush and his lot.

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Merkel and Sarkozy are idiots.

Andrew Mitchell was concern trolling about it on Morning Joe.

Andrea, rather.

Andrea Mitchell, Concern Troll. I love it! My morning laugh! :)

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Uh, you mean:
Andrea Mitchell, aka Mrs. Alan Greenspan, Concern Troll?
That Andrea Mitchell?

Here's an earlier example of Mitchell doing it: http://mediamatters.org/items/200807170007

And trying to pin it on "some Democrats" to boot.

Also, I couldn't tell if it was the DC people or my local snooze-jockey, but NPR this morning claimed "Obama has never visited Iraq" and used a McCain audio clip as a source.

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He's been ti Iraq once...never been to Afghanistan (a committee he chairs if I'm not mistaken).

McCain has missed every hearing relating to Afghanistan and Central Command in the last two years. EVERY ONE. And the full foreign services committee, and not Obama's subcommittee, has been dealing with Afghanistan (3 hearings (Obama attended 1 of the three) in the last year).

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You are mistaken. He's the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations' Subcommittee on Europe. As this FactCheck.org article states, it has some influence on Afghanistan through NATO, but its job description, so to speak, doesn't include Afghanistan in its purview:

Senate Foreign Relations Committee (section on Subcommittee on European Affairs): The subcommittee deals with all matters concerning U.S. relations with the countries on the continent of Europe (except the states of Central Asia that are within the jurisdiction of the Subcommittee on Near Eastern and South Asian Affairs), and with the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, the European Union and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. Matters relating to Greenland and the northern polar region are also the responsibility of this subcommittee. This subcommittee's responsibilities include all matters within the geographic region relating to: (1) terrorism and non-proliferation; (2) crime and illicit narcotics; (3) U.S. foreign assistance programs; and (4) the promotion of U.S. trade and exports.

(When is the GOP going to give up talking points that can be disproven by a fuckin' Google search?)

I believe you are mistaken. Obama chairs the Senate Foreign relations subcommittee on European Affairs which has oversight of NATO which in turn has a lead role in the conduct of the war in Afghanistan.

wrong...check your facts. he chairs a sub-committee tasked w/ oversight on Europe and usually looks intop Nato matters...

get back on your meds, dude!

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In his mind, it seems, Americans from all walks of life want the image of America to be improved in the rest of the world.

That's the key to the whole trip. Why else would he do the tour, from the standpoint of the presidential campaign (and not merely his personal edification on foreign issues)?

Look, we all knew beforehand that the GOP and McCain would seek to spin it in a certain way. What we have to rely upon is the notion that Americans are sick of being treated like fucking idiots by people seeking to manipulate their insecurities and narrow-minded nationalism into Republican votes to keep politicians that couldn't give two shits about them in power.

One might think that folks are done with suffering fools that take them for fools. One might think.

I hear you das2003, it is a gamble, but if it pays off it will do so handsomely. Oh, I have to get this in, Joe Scarborough is a miserable hacktastic smear merchant. Where was all his concern trolling when that dead intern wound up in his office? Ok, maybe that was a bit much. lol

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Dead intern? Whatchoo talkin' bout, Willis?

http://strategy08.wordpress.com

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Not to mention she died in Ft Walton beach and he was in DC at the time...but hey, who's worried about accuracy.

Apparently you don't seem too worried about reading comprehension, I'm just saying the woman wound up dead in his office..

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Leaving open to speculation that something nefarious transpired.

Now you are a mind reader? You jumped to that conclusion..

..that being said, you don't have to be in the same state, or time zone for that matter, to arrange something nefarious.

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I think, if you go back and look at the Clinton administration, the turn around in his popularity here began with a trip to Europe. Specifically, Clinton got an enormously popular reaction in Ireland that shocked a lot of Americans.

I was one of them. I grew up in the Mid West, in Republican family, surrounded by conservatives everywhere, but when I saw the massive Irish reaction, I began to think, maybe there's more to Clinton than I think.

The fact that conservatives are trying to plant the seed of a reaction in a different way is not surprising. They maybe trying to send a signal to Europeans, don't come out for Obama or else Americans won't like him. But I think, Europeans will come out in droves, and it will help Americans to sit up and take notice.

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I don't know why the pundits think this, it's so stupid. Why would the average American want to be hated around the world?

How can anyone in the U.S. think of this country as being a 'world leader' without, you know, people liking us? It's insane.

And anyway, I'm assuming Obama has done polling on this, to see how people would respond to having a president that is well liked around the world.

I heard this announced on German radio earlier today, but it still looks like everyone is still referring to unnamed government sources for this information.

wow, even better then speaking in front of the gate.
There will me hundreds of thousands (including me)!!

Just to give you an idea about the location:

I will travel with my sister and several friends from Hamburg to Berlin on Thursday! Now all I need are some tiny american-flags!!

Agreed - it's a damn good location for a speech and can fit way more people than they could at the gate. It's gonna look like the Love Parade.

Will they shut down traffic for it?

I don't see how the couldn't. It is a major intersection.

Also, let's hope it won't look exactly like the love parade unless thousands half-naked ravers will be a positive image in the US media ^^

has obama visit been on y'all media a lot and what is the reaction been like................

das2003,

i agree. Americans should celebrate the moment in history when an American politician will beloved and respected in the world again.

We now see the mainstream media getting its talking points from the McLame campaign. As good citizens its our obligation to push back against the the McLame campaign and the MSM distortion of Obama.

Stop worrying. Presidents go overseas, give speeches. The one of biggest doubt that voters have about Obama is doubts about his experience on foreign policy. All he really has to do is a) give a good speech, which the man can do in his sleep, and b) not say anything that can be portrayed by the RNC and Faux Noise as critical of the US. That's a little trickier but the man is smart, so he'll be fine.

I am sure he will do fine. However, I just hope he isn't seen eating any French Fries while in France. You know how the wingnuts hate the French even though Sarkozy is now Bush's BFF.

Waiting now for McSame apologists to claim that Obama flip-flopped on speaking in front of the Brandenburg Gate...

i don't understand why being loved around the world is a risk.. for so many years america was not popular and obama can give america that spark we been missing for so long... mcsame should be happy on this point if obama lets say confuse sunni and shiites the msm will be all over him...

I'm glad they're talking more about the risks beforehand. If they were talking about how great this is going to be for him, there could be a big letdown.

The more people play up the "risks," the bigger the payoff will be in the end. This is Obama at his best. I have no doubt the reward will be "yuge." Americans have forgotten what it's like to be loved by the rest of the world. The age of Freedom Fries is over. Reminding us what it's like to be proud to be an American outside of the jingoistic bull$hit that has counted for pride these last 7 years will be truly inspirational and reawaken our better angels. That's gold on Election Day.

I still worry about security at such a setting. Also who is he talking to here? Why would a German want to go to a speech by a foreign leader, let alone candidate?

I mean if Merkel came to Washington to give a speech at the Washington Monument would she be accepted/allowed to do so and would she draw a crowd?

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It's somewhat naive to compare Obama speaking there with Merkel speaking here. It's about America is viewed, both historically and recently. Obama represents a chance for foreigners to regain the idea of America that they've had most of their lives, and to get away from the Bush doctrine.

If you think it's not a big deal and Germans might not show for the speech, just wait.

While I agree, I also think it's presumptuous to think everybody sees and accepts America as the "World Leader", as the beacon on the hill.

I'm not saying there wont be a sizable crowd, but it could play into the Obama is arrogant meme. And if there isn't a crowd or there is any incidents that mar the speech it could be a disaster.

I don't know why Merkel would allow a foreign candidate/leader such a stage in the first place.

Freudians will chuckle over the substitution of a column for a gate.

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Charles Krauthammer's latest column on this matter, like all of his other scribbling, should be entitled "The Audacity of Imbecility."

Germans, if not all western Europeans, love politics. Love to talk it, read it, hear it. So it will draw a pretty big crowd. When I was in Germany, the dem. Primary was front page news, obviously a woman vs. a black man in the American presidential race was recognized. We met with the editor of the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, and when asked about a line we read about how Obama was being viewed as the next Kennedy, he responded, "Yes, but you have to understand, we've said that every 4 years for the last 40."

Matthews' show running right into Countdown is blurring in my mind, but I am quite sure a number of people made this claim, that by having all the big media people going with him, that all it would take is the slightest misstep--or perception of one, someone on one of the shows said last night--for this to be a problem for Obama. I'm sorry to be so vague but I heard this at least twice last night. Obama is risking everything! was the general message.

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The problem with that location is that when I hear of the Victory Column, I spontaneously think of Siegessaüle, the Berlin gay magazine named after it.

Andrea Mitchell this morning in Morning Joe, predicted a backslash for BHO

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I've come to the opinion that far right wing anti-truth is political pornography. Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, Maulkin, Ingrams, Savage are all porn stars. That makes Andrea Mitchell a soft-porn star.

Exactly. Let them play up the risk. We'll see huge European crowds (maybe even some American flags), kind words from leaders like Merkel and Sarkozy, and speeches by Obama with the audience back home in mind. I can't wait to see the effects of his inspiring style and lofty ideas. Americans may have schizophrenic feelings about Europe, but we do like to be liked. If the meme is "Will this gamble pay off?" it will be hard to spin the trip as a failure.

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"I spontaneously think of Siegessaüle, the Berlin gay magazine named after it."

You too?!?!!

Per the "risk" of cozying up to the Europeans, the "we need to learn another language"...

I've got several friends who are dyed-in-the-wool Republicans. Chamber of Commerce types, small businessmen & women, who went Republican because they favored (note past tense) R fiscal policies.

These people are educated, well-read, and are distressed about the position of the US in the world. They know that we need to compete and cooperate internationally. They have been the Republican middle management, the ones who help organize the local efforts. No longer.

They are voting for and donating to Obama.

I am sure that anti-euro hysteria will be played up by the McCain camp. And they'll get the single-wide crowd all riled. But it's not playing with the people who in the past were the precinct captains, the local fundraisers, the foot soldiers.

Did anyone see this blog, and read it before it got changed?

The secret hidden within John McCain's campaign schedule

You can tell a lot about any political campaign by how it invests its most precious resource: the 1,440 minutes in each candidate's day.

UPDATE: An earlier version of this item had a minute-by-minute schedule that was provided to the media for planning purposes and not intended for publication. But even if you examine the broad current schedule for John McCain's campaign, you'll still notice something very revealing:

The LA Times made this blogger pull this post, and add much more positive spin on his comments BECAUSE it didn't read AT ALL like this the first time this blogger placed this comment online.

Wish I had a copy of first time it was submitted without the schedule even, it still read nothing like the second time it was submitted. It was a very negative comment - but the LA Times made this guy rewite the entire comment.


If we could find someone who printed out the first copy of this blog at LA Times, schedule redated even.

The secret hidden within John McCain's campaign schedule

If so, if an original can be found you will see actual physical evidence of how your corporate owned media is being compromised.

Obama has 800 full time staffers that cost upwards of $40M/month? He better hope he keeps pulling $50M+ each month or he could get in trouble rather quickly. No wonder he's not running a lot of television ads.

McCain is planning a swing state blitz while Obama is overseas. No doubt to hammer home the message that while Obama is off gallivanting around Europe, giving speeches to Europeans, Good Ol' McCain is here to talk and listen to you the swing state voter.

That is his best plan of attack really. It's all he's got.

Just as mighty quinn said , it will be hard to spin as a failure, does anyone doubt they will? MSNBC supposedly leans left? ( except for KO & Rachel) You could have fooled me.

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I'm still not hot about this big speech in downtown berlin. I think he should just meet and greet the foreign leaders. No big speech's. It seems arrogant and presumptuous to me. I know that I am in the minority, but that's what I think. Let's wait until he's president and does a world tour. That's the time for big speeches.

I agree. All that he needed with the photo-op with all the foreign leaders he'll be stopping to meet. That's it. This Germany speech is a HUGE risk and one I don't think he needed to take. Unless it goes off perfectly with thousands of cheering Germans singing "We are the World" it's going to hurt him and if it goes really badly it could cost him the election.

Of course Obama has advisers a lot smarter than me, and I'm sure they really did their homework but I'll breath a lot easier when it's over and he's back Stateside.

The "risk" Obama may be taking is that he is contradicting the Bush/McCain bullying foreign policy. Bush/McCain assume Americans prefer this policy. Obama assumes Americans see that the Bush/MCain policy is wrong and has led to our diminished status world wide. Obama, in his visit next week, is attempting to began to restore the Atlantic alliance which has suffered under Bush's arrogance.The real risk is in continuing the Bush policies which McCain seems intent upon doing.

No Obama, no way and no how. Obama is supposed to be going abroad to find out how we are doing in the Middle East, not campaigning. Oh, the audacity of this rookie!!!


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The Victory Column in Berlin is an interesting site -- the Victory it celebrates is Prussia's victory over France in the Franco-Prussian War. 1870's, Bismark and all that.

I don't think there is much at risk. There are enough Americans in Germany who can vote absentee with the help of Democrats Abroad to get up a pretty good crowd, but years ago I watched Kennedy's 1963 Berlin Speech with Danes on Danish TV who were sometimes critics of US Policy (mostly Socialists), and they were totally turned on by the Berliner's welcome for Kennedy. Comments such as -- "First time in this century that I've felt positive about Berliners' cheering for anything." I suspect that politically pissed off Americans might just have a similar reaction. We are now so familiar with the US President making a fool of himself, and attracting massive anti-American demo's, a massive friendly welcome will be contrasted with Bush's "up your's" attitude, and the parallel response.

Remember, he is also going to London and Paris -- will he have a big event there too?

And oh yea, the division of the Senate Foreign Relations Sub-committees changed in the 90's, after the Cold War. Afghanistan was always grouped in with Europe (particularly soviet blok e. European countries) during the Cold War -- but after the 90's, the divisions were changed, and Afghanistan became part of S. Asia along with India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Burma, and a few others. I think the change was made in 92, so those who argue Obama's sub-committee has to do with Afghanistan are at least 15 years behind on this change.

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IMO, the 'big speech' idea seems odd - at first blush. Is he trying to win the swing-state of Germany? Who's he campaigning to? Well, obviously us. So, what's the point of doing a big speech there?

There must be a strategy involved here. What is it? I think that will be revealed in the content of his speech, which is the big missing piece to all of this. My prediction is that he's about to make an important foreign policy speech of some substance, which will solidify his foreign policy cred - especially when Americans see throngs of foreigners cheering his remarks. It may be less than that - maybe just a big fluffy speech about partnership and rebuilding the alliance between the U.S. and Europe. But, knowing Obama's oratorical skills, he'll still have the crowd eating out of his hand, which cannot be seen as a bad thing.

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