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Poll: Obama Might Have Shot At Flipping North Carolina
John McCain might end up having to work really hard to hold on to North Carolina, a new poll suggests, even though this Southern state hasn't voted Dem since Jimmy Carter's win in 1976.
The new numbers from Rasmussen: McCain 48%, Obama 45%, with a ±4.5% margin of error. Other polls have shown a similarly-close race, a surprising development considering that George W. Bush beat John Kerry here by a 56%-44% margin.
One thing that should be noted: North Carolina is on the list of 18 states that the Obama campaign has targeted with their ads so far, and the ads could be making an impact.
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mcsame has some serious problems...... mcsame might need a 50 state strategy also...........
July 17, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
There is not enough Tennesse's in this country to save McLame's ass.
It would be useful to point out a point or two in the context of this poll. One, the poll seems like a one on one match up and doesn't take possible Bob Barr on the ballot. Second, Rasmussen consistently under polls Obama support. In fact, I have a feeling most polls are underestimating the potential AA turnout.
Does any shed a light on the certainity or the uncertainity of Barr being on ballot in NC, GA, VA, etc, come November?
July 17, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I mean, Can anyone shed some light on Barr being on the ballot in NC, GA, VA, etc, come November?
July 17, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Barr will be on the ballot in North Carolina. Libertarians have qualified (just barely - the ballot access laws are very tough in NC)
July 17, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can check the status of Libertarian ballot access here:
http://www.lp.org/ballot-access
It seems he will be on the ballot in GA, SC, NC, FL. It says he has gained enough signatures in VA to be on the ballot, but it does not say 'on the ballot'. I don't understand it.
Anyway, great news. So far, he's got 31 states and their goal is 48.
July 17, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good reading here on the impact of 3rd party candidates.
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/spoiler-alert
The impact is very likely not to be as big as it currently seems.
July 17, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Election 2000.
Gore lost by about 500 votes in Florida.
Nader got 100,000 votes in Florida.
McCain excites no one at all. Not even 85 year old Republican women. Probably half of the party can't stand him.
Barr has the potential to give Obama a Reagan-like electoral landslide.
July 17, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
At least part of Barr's support here will come from conservative evangelicals who will not vote for McCain under any circumstance. They deeply dislike and distrust him, and have for years.
Even if that means that Obama wins the state and the presidency, they will not vote for McCain. But they will vote in the election, and may pick Barr simply to be able to cast a vote for someone for president.
July 17, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Go us! It's definitely doable, imho. If the AA vote can be bumped up, and continue the malaise that the conservatives seem to be having about voting for McCain, then yeah, it could happen. I'd be thrilled if we went blue! And the state is heading that way, perhaps only a few years behind Virginia.
July 17, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
SurveyUSA has McCain +5. So, that is 2 polls confirming a tight race.
July 17, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link.
Survey USA did not include Barr in its poll. I'm assuming Rass. didn't as well.
A recent poll of SC did include Barr and had him at 5%.
I would have liked to have seen his impact in NC. Has anyone seen a poll which did include him?
July 17, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
wouldnt Barr people choose "other" or "undecided"
July 17, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Polls are funny things. Or, maybe, people are stupid.
Many die-hard conservatives know Bob Barr and would say they'd vote for him if given the option. You'd think they'd say 'other' if they are actively interested in his campaign. Too many people will view such a poll as asking who do you prefer between the two, even if 'other' is an option.
We really cannot measure his support without him being an option, was really my point. How many PUMAs are voting 'other' or 'undecided' as well.
I think we should take action and email the polling companies demanding they include him. It will get him more media attention and money...and help our cause greatly.
July 17, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I should note that in the 2004 presidential election and 2008 democratic primary, SurveyUSA was one of the most accurate, if not THE most accurate pollsters.
If they say it is close, it's close.
July 17, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama has been spending a lot in NC. I live in Raleigh and get 3 or 4 Obama ads every night on cable between about 7~11pm. Yes, I watch a lot of TV.
July 17, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
umm...yeah you ran this story yesterday...
and the day before that too, i think
July 17, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
oops...
my bad. no you didn't.
July 17, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
There have been multiple posts with the same theme. Posts about Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, and now North Carolina.
Easy (in a delightful sort of way) to get confused about all the good news.
July 17, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
My main concern in NC: that Kay Hagan unseat Liddy Dole, especially after yesterday's lunacy.
Should Obama prevail in NC, PLEASE let him have coattails!!!
July 17, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you there. I'm keeping a weather eye on the horizon and I probe my NC-based family members about what they're seeing and hearing on a weekly basis. They almost sound more cautious about Kay's chances than Barack's. That said, I'm gameplanning a way to get a group down there from DC and try to pitch in...
Every little bit, folks. Every little bit...
July 17, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the title of this post should be "Obama Might Flip North Carolina". These polls confirm that he definitely has a shot at it, so "might have a shot" is a little weak.
July 17, 2008 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's a bit too much to lead with "John McCain might end up having to work really hard to hold on to North Carolina" when poll after poll have shown Obama within a few points in NC. I mean, it's fine the first few months of such polls being released, but Rasmussen has shown the two within 4-5% in NC since April. Heck, they were tied at 47% in the April poll!
My point is just that McCain hasn't led big in North Carolina poll in months (and never had a double-digit lead), so it might be a bit excessive to express amazement every time!
Apart from that, I entirely agree that as of a year ago no one would have predicted NC to be this tight, and it would a HUGE pick-up if Obama managed to win this!
July 17, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
What people should keep in mind is that when you look at most pollsters crosstabs they are keeping the turnout models fairly consistent with past turnout history. I just can't imagine that AA turnout will be at the same rate as it ahs in the past. But the question is how much will it grow? 10% increase in NC would add just under 2% to Obama's total share of the vote. 20% increase means an additional 4%. All the recent NC polls suggest this race is 5% or closer, so we can see what AA turnout will mean come November.
The other thing to jeep in mind is that young voters in NC vote below the national average and they could also swing the election in NC if there is a significant increase in their rates.
July 17, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just to make another point. During the primaries there was a lot of talk about Obama winning the nomination based on red states he's not going to win the General. I don't think any other democratic nominee could make NC or VA competitive. Obama seems to be doing well in pretty much every blue state, leading in quite a few swing states and staying competitive a couple of red states which have a chunk or electoral votes.
July 17, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. According to that recent Quinnipiac University national poll Obama led 55% - 37% in solid blue states (Kerry won >5%), led 50% - 39% in swing or purple states (neither Kerry or Bush won by >5%) and he only trailed 44% - 47% in red states (Bush won by >5%).
So Obama is competitive nationwide and so results like these in North Carolina are not too suprising. NC is a big electoral states with 15 votes. If he pulls off a win there and keeps the Kerry states he only would need one other state to win.....and he leads in a nubmer of those extra states like IA, CO, NM, MT, OH, IN, and VA.
July 17, 2008 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
My local blue dog Rep. Shuler refuses to endorse Barack as he endorsed hil post her winning his district in the primary. Call Shuler's campaign manager, Andrew Weyland and let him how you feel about his lack of effort for unity at 828-348-0414. please call!
I went to the official campaign reception last night for Western NC and it was outstanding! The staff is ready and fired up! and there was probably 70-90 people there and everyone is excited!
July 17, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's VERY unfair, especially in Virginia. Let's not rehash Clinton-Obama, but it's hard to argue that Clinton wasn't very competitive in Virgina. Look at this poll from December: Clinton led by double-digits against all GOPers but McCain, whom she led by 2%.
July 17, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama was tied with McCain in the April poll. He's now down 3 points and that's a positive? Oh yea, margin of error etc etc. He's really up 1.5% if you factor in the margin of error.
July 17, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sigh. This is probably wasted effort, but which April poll did you cherry pick to make your point?
To refresh your memory, here's some actual, you know, data:
Civitas Institute/Tel Opinion Research (R) 4/9-10/08 800 RV 48 39 - - 13 -
All other polls outside of April (that would be 20 polls, for those scoring at home) show John McCain with a lead, so yes, cherry picker, today's numbers represent a narrowing.
The Rasmussen poll that you cherry picked is the only one showing them tied.
You might want to check pollster.com every once in awhile.
July 17, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even if the fellow wants to cherry pick- holding McCain to a dead heat for three months (Apr-Jul) in the red state of NC should say something. Especially in the last 45 days where McCain and Obama are exclusively facing off each other on the national stage.
July 17, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even if the fellow wants to cherry pick- holding McCain to a dead heat for three months (Apr-Jul) in the red state of NC should say something. Especially in the last 45 days where McCain and Obama are exclusively facing off each other on the national stage.
July 17, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was simply comparing this Rasmussen poll to the Rasmussen poll taken before the NC primary. Apples to Apples. But you'd rather an apples to oranges comparison. Whatever floats your boat.
July 17, 2008 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just stop this bullshit, ok?
Rasmussen did four polls for North Carolina. The one you cherry picked is the ONLY ONE SHOWING THEM TIED.
July 17, 2008 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
And furthermore, had you wanted a poll result just before the North Carolina primary, you probably should have not chosen a poll that was taken nearly a month before the primary.
The Research 2000 poll was, in fact, just before the primary. A week before. McCain led by 9.
July 17, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't forget the registration bump. There were almost 300 k new registrants prior to the NC primary, and by most estimates 80% were Obama driven. They're not stopping, either.
With 300k + new registrants in the pen for Obama (almost all of whom will turn out), it's Obama's. The polling models don't even come close to recognizing that factor.
July 17, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly.
The number of new Democratic registrants in 07-08 in North Carolina is larger than the margin of Bush's victory over Kerry in 04.
That's all the information you need right there.
July 17, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
ftr, I know in past weeks we were talking of McCain hammering Missouri. 1. This wasn't a state that went hard McCain in primary, Huckabee almost won. But two, recently, I've seen no McCain ads and many Obama ads. Keep in mind, I'm in very liberal Columbia, MO.
July 17, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
FYI: Bush won NC by 13 points in '04.
July 17, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
North Carolina has been ripe for years.
Carter won it in '76 and only lost it by 2% in '80. After the Reagan landslide and the Duke experience, Clinton came within 0.8% in '92. Clinton lost ground in '96 losing by 5%. Gore and Kerry lost by 13% and 12% respectively.
In other words, a good Democratic candidate can make it an even race.
A new strong candidate can win it. Obama's new registrants fueled by demographic changes and his attention on the State make a win very possible in North Carolina.
Ignore the percentages, just look at the numbers.
Bush beat Kerry by 432,408 votes.
July 17, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
This reiterates the possibility that Obama has a very good chance of winning the popular vote, no matter what the final electoral vote is. If he's going to be close in these red states, the actual popular vote total will be very high for Obama.
July 17, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Regarding turnout and registration numbers in NC, consider this from a Republican blogger at the NC GOP official website:
I don't know how or if pollsters can account for the fact that Dem regisration is way up while GOP is almost non-existent. It could be a huge factor if this trend continues.
July 17, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama reopened all of his primary field offices in NC a couple of weeks ago and is opening several more in the next several days.
So how many field offices does Johnny Maverick have in the must-win state of NC? According to his website, that would be zero, zip, nada, zilch. He's got a relatively big footprint in Virginia, several field offices and a regional HQ--though still less than Obama--but zero footprint here in the old North state. His whole "effort" in this state, is run out of his Southeast regional office in Florida. Get that? Florida! Buahahahahaha! It is to laugh.
Both Virginia and North Carolina are must-wins for our Straight-Talkin' Hero (he was tortured for his country, you know but don't ask 'cause he hates to talk about it). There is no realistic victory scenario for him that does not include both states and he's got nothin' here. I live in the second most conservative area code in the state and I have, thus far, seen exactly one McCain bumper sticker here. A tiny ie little square one that's like those black and white "W" stickers with the "W" turned upside down (way to attach yourself to a winning brand there, Mav, p.s. and btw!)
N.C.'s Republican party is loaded with precisely the kind of knuckle-walking club thumpers who hate McCain for his "liberalness" and, among those who aren't, there is a lot of concern about his temper. Really. He's got to win those people on the bandwagon if he's going to have a chance but he's giving this state no love whatsoever.
Taking it for granted? Must be, because he sure can't afford to write it off.
Annnnd, as has already been noted, the turnout models are whack for this state this year.
I would love for my adopted state to be the one that really porks his chances on election night and its like McCain has a deliberate plan to make that happen.
July 17, 2008 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
North Carolina is definitely in play and can be won.
What I think Obama needs to do when he comes back from his overseas trip is to make the ECONOMY his issue.
From that day until November 4th Obama needs to talk about the economy in these red states.
July 17, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Conservatives won't be voting for Barr when they find out he has shifted 180 degrees on most positions. He now opposes the war on drugs he once championed and hates the Patriot Act he once loved.
He also drove his second wife to a clinic to get an abortion he paid for even though the hypocrite denounced Roe v. Wade.
Funny note: Barr unsuccessfully sought to ban wiccans (witches) from the military. Who woulda thunk the army was a hotbed of goddess worship?
July 17, 2008 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
You sure know a heckavalat about Barr than I ever could. Assuming your Barr bio is right, who is going to tell them? Will McCain divert his attention to Barr? Spend Ad time and money on Barr?
Don't think so. If Barr can find money to play ads in NC local markets, McCain will loose some ground.
July 17, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
You sure know a heckavalat about Barr than I ever could. Assuming your Barr bio is right, who is going to tell them? Will McCain divert his attention to Barr? Spend Ad time and money on Barr?
Don't think so. If Barr can find money to play ads in NC local markets, McCain will loose some ground.
July 17, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sure he does, now that Jessie Helms is dead!
July 17, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain't needs to watch his backside in Mississippi, too. If he neglects the place, he could easily lose there, and then what chance would he haave ffor ther White House?
July 19, 2008 9:29 AM | Reply | Permalink