Yeah, well, good luck Obama campaign in trying to combat that "immediate withdrawal" verbiage, because that just keeps getting repeated and repeated and repeated.

These strike me as less a signal of a coming change in his position on withdrawal and more like a combined effort to defuse the charge that he'll withdraw recklessly and to preserve flexibility as commander in chief.

Mark my words.

Umm, yeah, where's the "there" there? Sounds like they're just repeating exactly the same things they've said fro day one. This is a news story why?

The media doesn't do nuance. Period.

"When Democrats form a firing squad, we stand in a circle." Morris Udhall.

No matter how much you bitch Obama is not going to reverse his "FISA cave." And he is going to stick with what he's already said about Iraq: "we have to as careful getting out as we were careless getting in."

All of this constant harping and bitching about this won't do a thing to change that; it will, however, weaken him against McCain. That seems to be what some of you want. Wouldn't it be much more efficient to just vote for Nader? Sheez.

something seriously needs to be done about this media in this country. it is destroying us.

Pretty f'n lame, TPM.

I JUST WANT TO PULL MY HAIR OUT!!!!!!!!!1

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

ARE THEY F*ING STUPID?!!?!?!??!?!?!?!

I sure don't know why this is a story wherein you have nothing coming out on mcFuddle's taking credit and Bushie giving him credit on the new GI bill or on his personal finances(talk about elist). All we ask is for you to hold Mcfuddle to the truth. Is that hard for you to pursue??

I'd ask anyone who understands the notion of "force protection" how they feel about this position as opposed to the "just leave now" approach. We have a long, narrow exit route, a lot of troops to keep safe by way of rearguard actions, and a lot of facilities and materiel that will need to be rendered unusable before we depart.

What Obama is advocating is a careful, measured, well-managed withdrawal.

For those who don't understand the force protection concept, educate yourselves. Haven't enough American kids' lives and limbs been thrown down a rathole on this Bush/Cheney-driven debacle?

EXCELLENT ....being too rigid on Iraq is not a good thing...so long as he is committed to getting the troops out safely and he actively work towards a timeline, I am ok. Getting out is the mission and how to do it and do it in a pragmatic way is what's up for negotiation!!!

These strike me as less a signal of a coming change in his position on withdrawal and more like a combined effort to defuse the charge that he'll withdraw recklessly and to preserve flexibility as commander in chief.

I agree (for whatever little my agreement is worth).

I def remember this:

"You can't make a commitment in March of 2008 about what circumstances are going to be like in January 2009," said Power, who resigned from the campaign yesterday over separate comments insulting Clinton. "He will, of course, not rely upon some plan that he has crafted as a presidential candidate or a US senator. He will rely upon an operational plan that he pulls together in consultation with people on the ground."

So, refining his plan has always been his plan.

Though in his 2007 bill calling for all combat brigades to be withdrawn by March of 2008, he's always maintained that realities on the ground will cause him to refine his position.

Here is a comment I posted at the NYT Caucus site:

While Senator Obama is technically correct, he needs to stop ruminating in public if he wants to become our next President.

I believe that the American public does not want their Presidents exploring the nuances of a complex issue publicly. Yes, pondering reflects thoughfulness, intelligence, and adaptability, but many interpret these virtues differently. (Remember that Dubya’s hardheadedness and inflexibility about the Iraq War were seen as signs of his strong leadership and helped to get him re-elected).

McCain has been pushing this.

There is a reason why. The surge has been more successful in maintaining stability than many expected. He thinks that Obama painted himself into a corner.

He didn't. But McCain is also watching the histrionic left rent their garments and howl with agony screaming "Judas" over Fisa. So its perfect. Obama will have to move his position to contend with the facts on the ground. McCain is waving a red flag at netroots and waiting for them to charge hysterically screaming once Obama does have to move more significantly.

This doesn't mean that the goal post moves. The bottom line will be that McCain think this was a good idea and wants Iraq to be a defacto US colony forever. Obama thought it was a mistake and wants to get out ASAP. But Obama won't be able to ramp down and move out as quickly as would be preferable without creating enough instability that we had to go right back and then get stuck there. If you don't understand this point read up on what happened after Cuba was colonised and then left precipitously.

The left left wingers have made this worse int he msm by kicking and screaming. Now the meme is out on FISA, camapaign finance reform, and Iraq. 70% of ppl probalby don't even know what FISA is but thanks to our buddies on the left making it a national news story, these "flips" will be made intoa pattern going into november.

I swear to God if we lose this election....

Now Appearing:

The Subliminal PUMA

Starring Greg Sargent.

The concern is that the media and GOP are starting to come together on the familiar flip-flop narrative. In a way, there's nothing Obama can do about this. Either he's a wild-eyed leftist or a flip-flopper. What Obama needs to do is fight back by turning this on McCain. There have already been a number of web videos out illustrating McCain's waffling. Time for these to make the jump to the TV. Moveon should be doing ads like these, rather than the stupid "you can't have my baby" one.

"these "flips" will be made intoa pattern going into november"

Indeed, and our friends at TPM, Huffington Post, and Dialy KOS are doing everything they can to help.

The netroots are worse than Libertarians and greens. If it ain't perfect, throw it all out!

You are starting to hear the phrase FLIP FLOP with BO. He needs to be careful that he doesnt over nuance himself to death.

What I don't understand is why NOBODY asks MCCAIN about his damn FLIP FLOPS which really are supporting the complete opposite of what you had supported before!!!!!

Obama's word is worthless. His deeds do not match his words...unless of course he pulls a flip-flop and changes his words.

Clinton was correct. Lots of pretty words that are completely meaningless when it comes to getting things done.

Clinton was right.

But isn't that what latte sipping, country club elitist lefties do?? Just askin.. snark

FISA
Public Financing
Gun Control

and now add Iraq.

Obama has no principles, no platform and no balls.

But he is such a damn good script reader.

hey fogu, when did obama flip on the essence of gun control??

what part of "individual right to bear arms with precautions and safety measures, esp. in inner cities" don't you understand?

I think we need some refinement of the crude and now mind-numbingly silly concept of "flip flop." Who wants politicians who never change their positions, acknowledge new circumstances, or learn new things? That is what we have had in Bush Junior, and it has been a disaster.

As to Iraq, Obama has been absolutely consistent on his overall assessment and goals -- and anyone worth being Commander in Chief HAS to maintain some flexibility on tactical and timing matters. He has always said he would be "careful" and he needs to avoid the charge the McCain camp is making that he is too rigid to listen to military commanders. He never wavers from his strategic analysis that it is against US interests to maintain a long-term occupation or combat presence in Iraq. That is what we should care about.

Look at AOL today, by the way, for how all this benefits Obama. They ask if he is "ruthless" and Sullivan makes it clear in his commentary that is GOOD in a would-be president to be ruthless. He says Obama has proved he is no softie and is not rigidly leftist. Most Americans will love this assessment of him.

When it comes to politicians changing positions, they should not be "gottcha-ed" for doing it, they should be ask to acknowledge and explain why. We should look at their reasoning, not parse tiny phrases. We need to know our leaders are smart and reflective enough to keep their eye on strategic values/goals, and adjust the means with the circumstances!

When someone like Bush or McCain simply remains rigid, or outright denies he is changing or that he said what he did earlier (e.g., McCain on his economics expertise), that is when we should worry about dishonesty or lack of reflectiveness. On the other hand, when a politician says I have adjusted my position on a secondary or tactical matter, and here is why, we might well feel reassured, as I usually do with Obama.

Theda Skocpol

well lets see what Obama has flipped on lately,

FISA "I will filibuster" - NOT !

public campaign funding - NOT !

Iraq pull out within 60 days, - NOT!

well I'm not surprised! but his supporters are.

a picture of this man is getting to be very clear now.

Obama is saying anything to get elected. I want to hear the defenders cry, "but but he's the CHANGE candidate", yeah he changes his postions - ALOT ! thats change you can believe in.

Some of us saw it - alot didn't. oh well.

When we're all watching McCain get sworn in next January, let's pat ourselves on the back for disdaining the best candidate we've had in a generation.

Obama CAN'T disregard the military officers during the general election. Much like Dubya's minions let him get away with saying anything to get elected, we have to do the same. All Obama is dong is shielding himself from GOP attacks. He will get us out of there. Let's trust him, folks. Not blindly, mind you. Let's keep on him. We put him where he is. But we need some perspective. Same with FISA.

Yeah, it sucks. But would McCain really be better? Then we'd likely get Hillary in 2012. Fine you say? OK. I like Hillary. But I'm not going to give McCain the pleasure of replacing Ginsburg, Breyer and Stevens. No thank you.

I expect Obama to listen to his Generals. That makes sense since they are on the ground. That just makes sense to me, to have their input.

The ads can't be from move on. Sadly, they've blown their credibility in the center with the "General Betray-us" ad and are now seen as far left.

I think the unions, NARAL, etc., need to step up and make individual issue-based ads focused on their constituencies/voting blocs/issues. Focus on how McCain has voted on their issues. The man's been in the Senate for a gabillion years; there's a reason he's being wishy washy on his past as a legislator. Think about it: McCain's running on two things -- POW, maverick. Don't touch the first (except virally online, for the willing, but even then...it's tricky). But maverick is bad. You can't trust a maverick. Can a pro choice Republican trust McCain to protect her rights? Can a Ohio factory worker trust McCain stop his job from being outsourced? Can a New Mexico Minuteman trust McCain to stem the tide of illegal immigration?
I don't think they'd be certain once they hear how he's spoken on any of those issues over the years. And that's good for us.

Re:Obama campaign. It's concerning me. They need better ad guys.

Offshore Drilling is a huge issue right now and rightly so. Between the desire to deal with the economic mess that is being spurred by the price of oil and the on-going longer-term concern of global warming, how do we address all of this? The soaring oil prices are affecting the costs of everything from food to gas. There are also significant issues on local and global environmental impact. While there are many issues, we need to look at our next leader and determine which will have the best course of action going forward?The soaring oil prices are affecting the costs of everything from food to gas. There are also significant issues on local and global environmental impact. While there are many issues, we need to look at our next leader and determine which will have the best course of action going forward…..I recently watch the two video in POLL about this issue, Obama and McCain talk about this…

The trap couldn't be clearer. He's a crypto-terrorist if he doesn't go to Iraq. But if he does go, what's the point if he is not willing to reconsider his positions, mere show-boating? And if he is willing to reconsider his positions, he is a flip-flopper (to use the utterly inane Rovian slime-meme that is so inexplicably widely accepted.)