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McCain: "Today We Know Senator Obama Was Wrong"

Perhaps not surprisingly, the first main theme in John McCain's Iraq speech today, which just concluded in New Mexico, was that he was right about the surge, and Obama was wrong.

Key quote:

Today we know Senator Obama was wrong. The surge has succeeded. And because of its success, the next President will inherit a situation in Iraq in which America's enemies are on the run, and our soldiers are beginning to come home.

Senator Obama is departing soon on a trip abroad that will include a fact-finding mission to Iraq and Afghanistan. And I note that he is speaking today about his plans for Iraq and Afghanistan before he has even left, before he has talked to General Petraeus, before he has seen the progress in Iraq, and before he has set foot in Afghanistan for the first time. In my experience, fact-finding missions usually work best the other way around: first you assess the facts on the ground, then you present a new strategy.

McCain needs to narrow the discussion about who has had better judgment on the war into an argument about the surge, rather than one about the broader intellectual failures -- which McCain shared -- that got us into this mess in the first place. Obama, by contrast, is insisting on a broader discussion and wants McCain to own his misjudgments about the bigger question of whether to invade at all.

Adding to what Ben Smith says here, both candidates are asking voters to judge their ability to decide what the right way forward by looking at their past decisions.

But the inescapable fact is this: On the biggest and most consequential decision, Obama got it right, and McCain got it wrong. The only question is whether McCain's efforts to focus the discussion on who was right about the surge will succeed in obscuring this.

Separately, we need to avoid the misconception that McCain represents a complete continuation of Bush's policies. After all, in the speech, McCain proposed creating a second war czar to handle Afghanistan. Right now, there's only one, for both countries.

McCain's full speech after the jump.

I'm here today to discuss with you several issues that worry you and most Americans, our slumping economy, job loss, rising gas and food prices, and what we need to do to get our economy growing again, create jobs and reduce our dangerous dependence on foreign oil. But there is another urgent issue I want to address before I take your questions, which I know concerns you because brave Americans are risking their lives right now to deal with it.

Over the last year, Senator Obama and I were part of a great debate about the war in Iraq. Both of us agreed the Bush administration had pursued a failed strategy there and that we had to change course. Where Senator Obama and I disagreed, fundamentally, was what course we should take. I called for a comprehensive new strategy -- a surge of troops and counterinsurgency to win the war. Senator Obama disagreed. He opposed the surge, predicted it would increase sectarian violence, and called for our troops to retreat as quickly as possible.

Today we know Senator Obama was wrong. The surge has succeeded. And because of its success, the next President will inherit a situation in Iraq in which America's enemies are on the run, and our soldiers are beginning to come home. Senator Obama is departing soon on a trip abroad that will include a fact-finding mission to Iraq and Afghanistan. And I note that he is speaking today about his plans for Iraq and Afghanistan before he has even left, before he has talked to General Petraeus, before he has seen the progress in Iraq, and before he has set foot in Afghanistan for the first time. In my experience, fact-finding missions usually work best the other way around: first you assess the facts on the ground, then you present a new strategy.

Although the situation in Iraq is much improved, another test awaits whoever wins this election: the war in Afghanistan. The status quo is not acceptable. Security in Afghanistan has deteriorated, and our enemies are on the offensive. From the moment the next President walks into the Oval Office, he will face critical decisions about Afghanistan.

Senator Obama will tell you we can't win in Afghanistan without losing in Iraq. In fact, he has it exactly backwards. It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan. It is by applying the tried and true principles of counter-insurgency used in the surge -- which Senator Obama opposed -- that we will win in Afghanistan. With the right strategy and the right forces, we can succeed in both Iraq and Afghanistan. I know how to win wars. And if I'm elected President, I will turn around the war in Afghanistan, just as we have turned around the war in Iraq, with a comprehensive strategy for victory.

That strategy will have several components. Our commanders on the ground in Afghanistan say that they need at least three additional brigades. Thanks to the success of the surge, these forces are becoming available, and our commanders in Afghanistan must get them. But sending more forces, by itself, is not enough to prevail. In the 18 months that Senator Obama has been campaigning for the presidency, the number of NATO forces in Afghanistan has already almost doubled -- from 33,000 in January 2007 to about 53,000 today. Yet security has still deteriorated. What we need in Afghanistan is exactly what Gen. Petraeus brought to Iraq: a nationwide civil-military campaign plan that is focused on providing security for the population. Today no such integrated plan exists. When I am commander-in-chief, it will.

There are, of course, many differences between Afghanistan and Iraq, which any plan must account for. But, as in Iraq, the center of gravity is the security of the population. The good news is that our soldiers have begun to apply the lessons of Iraq to Afghanistan -- especially in eastern Afghanistan, where U.S. forces are concentrated. These efforts, however, are too piecemeal; the work of innovative local commanders, rather than a strategy for the entire country. In particular, the U.S. needs to reengage deeper in southern Afghanistan, the Taliban heartland.

One of the reasons there is no comprehensive campaign plan for Afghanistan is because we have violated one of the cardinal rules of any military operation: unity of command. Today there are no less than three different American military combatant commands operating in Afghanistan, as well as NATO, some of whose members have national restrictions on where their troops can go and what they can do. This is no way to run a war. The top commander in Afghanistan needs to be just that: the supreme commander of all coalition forces. As commander-in-chief, I will work with our allies to ensure unity of command.

A successful counterinsurgency requires more than military force. It requires all instruments of our national power, and that military and civilian leaders work together, at all levels, under a joint plan. Too often in Afghanistan this is not happening. And we need to build the same kind of civil-military partnership that Gen. Petraeus and Amb. Crocker have forged in Iraq, supported by the best talent in the U.S. government and the resources necessary to prevail. Unity of command is also a principle I will bring to Washington. Too often, even as American soldiers and diplomats cooperate in the field, their superiors back home have been squabbling. Last year, the Bush administration appointed a war czar, responsible for both Iraq and Afghanistan. This was a step in the right direction. But Afghanistan is sufficiently important that a separate Afghanistan Czar is needed. I will appoint a highly-respected national security lea der, based in the White House and reporting directly to the President, whose sole mission will be to ensure we bring the war in Afghanistan to a successful end.

Everyone knows the United States increased the number of its soldiers in Iraq last year. What's less well known is that the Iraqis surged with us, adding over 100,000 security forces to their ranks. It's time for the Afghans to do the same. The Afghan army is already a great success story: a multiethnic, battle-tested fighting force. The problem is, it's too small, with a projected strength of only 80,000 troops. For years, the Afghans have been telling us they need a bigger army, and they are right. We need to at least double the size of the Afghan army to 160,000 troops. The costs of this increase, however, should not be borne by American taxpayers alone. Insecurity in Afghanistan is the world's problem, and the world should share the costs. We must work with our allies to establish an international trust fund to provide long-term financing for the Afghan army.

We also need to increase our non-military assistance to the Afghan government, with a multi-front plan for strengthening its institutions, the rule of law, and the economy in order to provide a sustainable alternative to the drug trade. Getting control of narcotics trafficking is central to our efforts in Afghanistan. Alternative crops must be able to get to market and traffickers must be arrested and prosecuted by enhanced Special Courts. We should agree on specific governance and development benchmarks with the Afghan government, then work with them closely to ensure they are met.

Just as we have worked over the past 18 months to stabilize Iraq by bringing together its neighbors, this kind of diplomacy is just as important for Afghanistan. The violence there has many causes, but chief among them is the fact that Afghanistan is treated by some regional powers a chessboard on which to pursue their own ambitions. I will appoint a special presidential envoy to address disputes between Afghanistan and its neighbors. Our goal must be to turn Afghanistan from a theater for regional rivalries into a commons for regional cooperation.

A special focus of our regional strategy must be Pakistan, where terrorists today enjoy sanctuary. This must end. We must strengthen local tribes in the border areas who are willing to fight the foreign terrorists there -- the strategy used successfully in Anbar and elsewhere in Iraq. We must convince Pakistanis that this is their war as much as it is ours. And we must empower the new civilian government of Pakistan to defeat radicalism with greater support for development, health, and education. Senator Obama has spoken in public about taking unilateral military action in Pakistan. In trying to sound tough, he has made it harder for the people whose support we most need to provide it. I will not bluster, and I will not make idle threats. But understand this: when I am commander -in-chief, there will be nowhere the terrorists can run, and nowhere they can hide.

In wartime, judgment and experience matter. In a time of war, the commander-in-chief doesn't get a learning curve. If I have that privilege, I will bring to the job many years of military and political experience; experience that gave me the judgment necessary to make the right call in Iraq a year and half ago. I supported the surge because I believed it was our only realistic chance to reverse the disaster our previous strategy had caused, and the right thing to do for our country. And although events have proven me right, my position wasn't popular at the time, and I risked my own political ambitions when I took it. When I tell you, I will put our country's interests -- your interests -- before party; before any special interest; before my own interests, every hour of every day I'm in office, you can believe me. Because for my entire adult life, in war and peace, nothing has ever been more important to me than the se curity and well-being of the country I love. Thank you.



Comments (88)

McCain also said this:

I know how to win wars.

Which wars did he win again?

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He didn't win any. He got shot down and was in prison while Vietnam was being fought. But don't hold your breath to see if the media will ask him if St. McCain won anything.

he could claim that he helped end the Cold War, since he did enter the Senate in 1982.

My friend. Iraq. Remember "Mission Accomplished." Geez, you would think that we were still stuck in Iraq and taking casualties. We won already. Same with Afghanistan. We won that one before Iraq. All this reporting about casualties and fighting in these countries is just the left-wing media spreading liberal lies. Thank you.

Are you questioning John McCain's integrity?

Oh, yes, I am.

You clearly forgot he helped end the Spanish-American War.

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Funny!

i find it funny that in his speech sen. mccain brought up the idea of appointing another "war czar" when bush was highly criticized for appointing a war czar.

does sen. mccain want the job of commander in chief or not?

That's a great point. Obama's team should ask that question repeatedly!

What's our current War Czar doing? Why do we want to use Russian titles?

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So we had to go to Iraq to learn how to win in Afghanistan?

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In a time of war, the commander-in-chief doesn't get a learning curve. If I have that privilege, I will bring to the job many years of military and political experience; experience that gave me the judgment necessary to make the right call in Iraq a year and half ago.

It's like anything prior to the Surge doesn't exist in his mind.... If it hadn't been for his, and others, disasterous decision to go into Iraq, there would have never been the need for the Surge in the first place.

Didn't he "judge" that Iraq would last a few months, cost a few million, and would bring stability to the region?

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Yes. I would run an ad about his "judgement". He, as they say in the law, open the door on the issue.

It is by applying the tried and true principles of counter-insurgency used in the surge

i understand that sen. mccain wants to emphasize his knowledge of military tactics, but perhaps someone can explain to me how "tried and true" our counterinsurgency tactics are? didn't we only write the book on such a policy in the past few years?

especially since the "surge methods" were modeled after the successes in Kabul, um, Afghanistan.

is he saying that all we need in more wars to "perfect" the methods for winning wars?

if we learned something from iraq, maybe it's worth "perfecting" it in iran before we bring it back to afghanistan.

"Tried and true", as in, tried over the past two years, truly.

And yes, Petraeus wrote it, and it came out in June 2006.

http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-24fd.pdf

McCain might be able to make a plan to get himself out of a puddle every once in a while, but when that puddle is on at the bottom of the well you jumped in, you can hardly call it an achievement in judgment.

While the surge has succeeded in decreasing the level of violence in Iraq, isn't there still quite a bit of debate about whether the new alliances it created will prove politically viable over time?

Taken as an experiment in long term state building, we don't yet know whether the surge is a success. Shouldn't someone point this out?

Actually, even that is an overstatement. The decrease in violence is in part because of extra troops (which isn't sustainable), in part because of our paying off and arming Sunni tribes to fight us (which is likely to contribute to a long-term civil war) and in part because of ethnic cleansing (in Baghdad especially) which also directly undermines long-term political stability.

As always, GOP governing strategy is "make things look as good as you can in the short term, and assume nothing after the next election matters."

Er, I meant "not to fight us," of course.

"ethnic cleansing "...?

Yes, "ethnic cleansing." The "surge" has "worked" in no small part because by the time it was started the respective militias had already dispatched most of their enemies. Once the Sunnis had killed or driven away all of the Shi'ites in the Sunni-dominated areas and the Shi'ites had killed or driven away all of the Sunnis in the Shi'ite dominated areas, there were no longer any victims left to kill or intimidate, so naturally the violence went down. In other words, the "surge worked" only in the same sense that a fireman can be said to have extinguished a fire which has already consumed every last flammable element of a burning house.

What McCain meant to say was not "I know how to win wars", but

"I know how to help start wars that we can't win"

To be blunt: Who gives a s**t?! I want to hear about his economic plans, as we are all dying on the vine here, so to speak. This is the number one priority to Americans, with health care costs/solutions a close second.

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They dying you feel is mainly psychological. His prescription: think happy thoughts!

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"THE" not "THEY". Seriously, an edit function would be terrific.

McCain has no economic plans. Unless of course you are rich and are willing to use your tax cuts to help out the rest of us poor saps.

He wants to run on 26 years of experience, but only the last 1.5 years matter when it comes to Iraq.

Obama should have accepted the ten joint town halls so he could question McCain, because it's obvious the MSM isn't going to.

That 1.5 years is more than the "Community organizer" BS that Obama keeps harping on for his "experience."

So what's Gramps' experience again?

Losing 5 planes, getting captured, supporting the Iraq war from day one?

Today we know Senator Obama was wrong. The surge has succeeded.

What the heck? I know no such thing. Indeed, I am still waiting for an intelligible account of what constitutes "success" for the surge. To say that a tactic has "succeeded" indicates that said tactic furthered some desirable end. I am still entirely unclear as to what our desired ends in Iraq are. "The surge is working" and all similar claims are just a bunch of vacuous bosh. One could just as truthfully assert that all fraggleblasoms are terqniferous.

I think he means: "we can kill people"

"The principles of a police state are sound".

(we just need a draft and a bigger loan from China to keep it up).

But Obama was still wrong about it...
Jan 2007 "We cannot impose a military solution on what has effectively become a civil war. And until we acknowledge that reality, uh, we can send 15,000 more troops; 20,000 more troops; 30,000 more troops. Uh, I don't know any, uh, expert on the region or any military officer that I've spoken to, uh, privately that believes that that is gonna make a substantial difference on the situation on the ground."

Now "I had no doubt, and I said at the time, when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform, if we place 30,000 more troops in there, then we would see an improvement in the security situation and we would see a reduction in the violence."

I grant the truth of your point, but fail to discern its significance. Obama was wrong in his claim that some particular number of troops could accomplish some particular military end. That said, Obama was correct in his claim that the surge would be a waste of time, money and lives. If given a choice between two candidates, one who can accurate assess minutiƦ while missing the big picture and another who can flub the details while getting the big stuff right, I guess that this does not strike me as a particularly difficult choice.

...and he is lying when he says ""I had no doubt, and I said at the time..."

Like I said, I grant the truth of your point. There is no doubt but that the two quotes you adduce constitute a contradiction, which in turn implies a lie in that latter quote. As I said before, however, such a niggling focus on the particular detail here rather misses the bigger picture. The surge (indeed, the whole Iraq fiasco) is still a (literally) unjustifiable waste. Nothing about Sen Obama's contradiction in those two quotes really alters that essential fact.

Cherry pick quotes much. I also recall obama statements that the security position might improve, but we need a diplomatic offensive and we need to do other things, other than just throw in more troops.

So, let me see, the shiites are agreeing to bring the sunnis into the government, not. And the shiites are ready and willing to share the oil wealth with the sunnis, not. We basically have a 3 state situation in iraq and the sunnis are getting screwed. That's a success? Give me a break.

I do not think that it is much of a rebuttal to Mr Wallace to accuse him of cherry picking quotes. So long as the two quotes are genuine (and they are) then his point stands - Obama has contradicted himself. That said, I agree with you that he is missing the forest for the tree here. The surge is only "working" if you accept a transparently inane definition of success. This is still true whether or not Obama contradicted himself.

"Cherry pick quotes much." Not much Cherry picking required...his little added "and I said so at the time," made everyone go look and see what he said at the time.

Obama even changed his web page that discussed Iraq...cuz the stuff on there was contraticting what he's saying today.

I actually don't believe that the "surge" or escalation or throwing in more troops to the tune of 30,000 troops had any impact on the security situation. It was primarily several factors, buying off the sunnis in anbar which started 6 months before the announcement of the "surge", the mahdi army cease fire, and the ethnic cleansing that occured in baghdad. Nonetheless, the carnage has decreased and the shiites want us out so that they can be iran's puppet state in the region and can oppress the sunnis. Is that success? I don't think so. The surge succeeding is a bunch of bs.

Then why does Obama continue to claim:
(even though the first 2 phrases are a lies)
"I had no doubt, and I said at the time, when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform, if we place 30,000 more troops in there, then we would see an improvement in the security situation and we would see a reduction in the violence."

Presumably because the task of explaining how it could be that violence could be down for reasons that have nothing to do with the surge is more than he cares to undertake. I can hardly blame him for that.

Are you simply trying to disabuse us all of the notion that Obama is unwilling to lie when convenient? I assure you, I was never under that illusion and neither were most of us here. Both Sen Obama and Sen McCain will lie when it suits them so to do and the examples to undergird this assertion are so numerous that it would be tedious to adduce them all. I am not really looking for a politician so pure that he will never stoop to an untruth. I am simply looking for one who will achieve the ends that I desire to see accomplished (even when such ends are achieved by means of lies and other similarly unsavory expedients).

Missouri Voter:
It's the "Mission Accomplished" definition of success. It's: say you won; and then, instead of leaving -- as you would do if you had actually won -- you stay, indefinitely. Try it by substituting the surge line: "Senator Obama is wrong. The surge has been a success." And then, instead of bringing the troops home because they are no longer necessary, because you've won, then say " And I don't think it's important when the troops come home. We could be in Iraq for 50 years -- hell, maybe 100...as long as US troops aren't suffering casualties..."
Of course, this is where the analogy stops working, even acccording to their rules: US troops are still suffering casualties, every day. Details.

Sorry. This didn't place after the comment you made that I was replying to. "Up with which I will not put" --Churchill

After all, in the speech, McCain proposed creating a second war czar to handle Afghanistan.

Wow, that article about how he was running the exact same campaign as Hillary was right. Here's the "I'll promise to appoint someone else to tackle a problem I don't immediately know how to solve" move, much like the "poverty czar" proposal back in April or so.

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Look how it succeeds:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/15/iraq.violence/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/07/13/iraq.main/index.html

I'm sure our Iraqi friends feel save in our new American province.

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The Surge succeeded in its primary purpose: to keep us in Iraq through the remainder of the Bush term.

What more do you want?

And because of its success, the next President will inherit a situation in Iraq in which America's enemies are on the run, and our soldiers are beginning to come home.

Important clue here about how the Bush Administration will manipulate our government and military to try to help get Republicans elected. They'll bring home the number of troops that are unavoidable because of troop rotations, and loudly lie about how they're doing it because we're "winning."

In my experience, fact-finding missions usually work best the other way around: first you assess the facts on the ground, then you present a new strategy.

"Fact-finding missions," really? Is there anyone in the country who doesn't already know that "congressional fact-finding mission" is a synonym for a junket and a photo-op?

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The surge is a success??????

We know you were in the bottom 5 percentile of your class, but surely, Senator, you can define 'success', no?

Maybe your base, the msm, is just not doing too much reporting on Iraq, so I guess no news is good news, right, Senator?

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Yes. More Czars. When we finally take it to the Danes, I got dibs on Denmark Czar.

Separately, we need to avoid the misconception that McCain represents a complete continuation of Bush's policies. After all, in the speech, McCain proposed creating a second war czar to handle Afghanistan. Right now, there's only one, for both countries.

Nice snark, Greg, but didn't Bush have a separate Afghanistan czar before he made a big show of combining them? So this would be more a matter of picking and choosing from Bush's policies than an actual difference.

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True, Obama was wrong. The surge has been successfull in cutting the number of American Casualties. Obama now appears to want to pull out of Iraq and start a war with Pakistan. What experience does Obama have in his past that makes anyone think he has the qualifications to represent American men and women in harms way?
The Washington Post's new Poll indicates 72% said McCain would make a good Commander in Chief while Obama is at 48%.

Jeez, Johnny seems to be saying that Iraq is a slam-dunk success, to be used as a model. What a lunkhead.

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Thanks Greg, you're apparently at one with idiots who post crap like this:

"True, Obama was wrong. The surge has been successfull in cutting the number of American Casualties. "

The purpose of the surge wasn't to cut the numbers of American casualties.

So this means Greg and Freepers who post here don't know what the purpose of the surge was.

We can excuse the Freepers. Greg has no excuse.

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Why is Greg Sargent taking McCains LIE as truth?

The "Surge" absolutely failed.

It's purpose was to buy time for Iraq to come up with a stable military and political situation so communities could begin rebuilding and services could be re-instituted.

So again, why is Greg Sargent taking McCain's bullshit and just pretending he had a point about Obama's comments on the Surge and its success?

McCain's Iraq policy weakens our national security.
McCain's Iraq policy weakens our military.
McCain's Iraq policy weakens our economy.
McCain's Iraq policy weakens our ability to invest in America.
McCain's Iraq policy weakens our National Guard.
McCain's Iraq policy weakens our image abroad.
McCain's Iraq policy limits our focus on Afghanistan.
McCain's Iraq policy prevents us from rebuilding our infrastructure.
McCain's Iraq policy prevents us from having national health care.
McCain's Iraq policy increases our national debt.
McCain's Iraq policy continues to damage our national reputation.

Every issue is held hostage by the issue of Iraq. It's all interconnected. Issue after issue, it all comes back to the colossal misjudgement to invade and the prolonged attempt to occupy Iraq. And as long as the U.S. remains in Iraq, the deeper we sink into the muck. We simply can't afford McCain's Iraq policy. And we can't afford a McCain presidency.


Obama has no military experience and no economic experience. He's an academic with an opportunistic streak for climbing the political power ladder. He is an empty suit as I and others have long said.

His deeds do not match his words or promises. He cannot be trusted and pretends to be an experts in all things that he has no experience in. This is all wrong.

McCain, for his part, at least sees things as they are rather than how they should have been. He has expressed a desire to bring troops home once stability and legitimate govts. are in place in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

Clinton is the real best choice though. Her Democratic platform combined with her experience places her in the best and most realistic position to achieve the desired results regarding the wars.

Clinton remains the best choice for president. Unless you want 8 years of McCain it is time for the Democratic Super Delegates to publicly acknowledge that they are withdrawing support for Obama and will reveal their preferences in a floor vote with both candidates up for nomination.

"McCain, for his part, at least sees things as they are."

"I believe that the success will be fairly easy." (9/24/02)

"We"re not going to have a bloodletting of trading American bodies for Iraqi bodies." (9/29/02)

"We will win this conflict. We will win it easily." (1/22/03)

"But I believe, Katie, that the Iraqi people will greet us as liberators." [NBC, 3/20/03]

"It"s clear that the end is very much in sight." [ABC, 4/9/03]

"There"s not a history of clashes that are violent between Sunnis and Shiahs. So I think they can probably get along." [MSNBC, 4/23/03]

"I"m confident we"re on the right course." [ABC News, 3/7/04]

And this relates to Clinton being the best choice how?

Clinton's the "best choice" for what?

Delusional hangers-on who don't know when to get off stage after the curtain has been drawn?

Why is Obama on an MIA flag in your avatar?

What's an MIA flag?

You claim to be 54 ehich would put you right in the draft years of Vietnam and you don't know what a "Prisoner of War / Missing in Action" flag is?

How can anyone take anything you say seriously? Are you posting from the Pakistani border region?

The above relates to your statement "McCain, for his part, at least sees things as they are."

As for your claim of "Clinton being the best choice", I choose to ignore such childish fantasies. Dream if you must, but the rest of us will continue on in the real world.

Ding ding, we have a winner for the most ridiculous statement of the day!

Thanks you for your participation.

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Woo hoo! Back with more lies today, eh, junior? Now don't forget to tell your family you lied again today just to get attention like a little troll does.

Here is a clue: McCain does not want to bring the troops home. He wants a *permanent* presence in Iraq. Oh, and btw, McCain has absolutely no experience with economic matters and his economic plans are no difference than Shrub's! You know, the C-student frat boy who got us into the current mess in Iraq for no good reason and who has wrecked the economy.

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the surge "worked" because the various ethnic groups were successful in segregating their neighborhoods. How many millions of refuges are there now?

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What wars does McCain know how to win?

I love how it's becoming generally accepted that the surge has worked/is successful just because McCain says it over and over again. Quite the neat trick, maybe he should try that in other areas.

We should start saying the war has been won. The WMDs are gone (I know they were never there, but that's just details), Saddam is gone, and the Iraqis have a Democratic government. What's not WON about this war that still needs winning?

"The surge is working" is just another bumper sticker in a long line of misguided attempts to occupy Iraq. Before the "surge" there was "listening to the generals on the ground", and before that there was "stay the course". And before that the repeated promises that victory was just another six months away. And before that, the promise that the war would be fairly easy and that we would be greated as liberators.

I believe Obama agreed that the surge has worked to reduce violence and achieve some stability. Is he going to flip-flop again and now claim it is not working? Or is he just going to agree with McCain.

Whatever happened to "as they stand up, we'll stand down?" If the Iraqis "surged" with us (lovely porn reference) then they are clearly standing erect. How about we flop down, now?

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To the Republicans, that's the beauty of genocide- after you kill all the undesirables or drive them away, the violence goes down.

It worked like a charm in Iraq.

"the surge "worked" because the various ethnic groups were successful in segregating their neighborhoods. How many millions of refuges are there now?"

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"In my experience, fact-finding missions usually work best the other way around: first you assess the facts on the ground, then you present a new strategy."

First, I think that this criticism will (and should) stick, because Obama had no reason to give a major Iraq speech right now, except that he felt the issue slipping away. He should have waited until he returned from his Iraq tour and gave exactly the same speech.

[Sidenote: Obama needs to come up with a better way of regaining the offensive in this campaign. The "major address" is already losing its effectiveness].

Secondly, why the fuck isn't someone, as Josh on the main site hinted, ridiculing McCain for his reliance on these phony "fact finding" missions to foreign countries by bringing up his Baghada market visit of a year or so ago? You know, the market he declared "perfectly safe" while surrounded by over a hundred American GIs, three helicopters, etc.

My question is, why do Obama partisans concede that the surge has been effective, given its political untenability over the long term.

Seeing as the military part of the surge was to provide for political stability, it's been a failure insofar as the conditions don't exist under which its effects can be safely tested.

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fogu2 says- "Obama has no military experience and no economic experience. He's an academic with an opportunistic streak for climbing the political power ladder. He is an empty suit as I and others have long said. His deeds do not match his words or promises. He cannot be trusted and pretends to be an experts in all things that he has no experience in. This is all wrong."

Ve3ry well said, I could not agree more. Hopefully it is not to late for Hillary to seize the nomination from this Chicago dirty political hack that is Obama. The Superdelagates need to disown Obama immediatly and change allegience to Hillary or McCain will be a shoe-in.


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One major problem we have is the media has turned complicit in the "surge is working " me-me. They are throwing the statements Obama made in 2007 (about the surge having no chance of succeeding and making things worse) right back in his face. Incredibly they are basing this on the REPUBLICAN talking point that the surge is a glorious success.

So now the argument has turned away from who was right about Iraq to who was right about the surge. The media seems to have forgotten that this is a war that SHOULDN'T EVEN BE TAKING PLACE!!!! Obama needs to remind them of that in no uncertain terms, not in flowery language asking us to imagine what life could've been like post 9/11. E-gad.

We need to point out relentlessly that the surge hasn't been a success except as a temporary pacification campaign with insidious, destructive side effects.

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Why is McCain allowed to continue to violate the prime code of military conduct. His continued insistence that talking to the commanders in the field is something that he does best totally disregards the CHAIN OF COMMAND. What about the Joint Chiefs and the Sec. of Defense. A good commander in chief relies upon his military leaders and doesn't try to act like a battlefield commander. Why doesn't the MSM ask him about this?

It's not even just that. The president is the commander in chief. He gets information through the chain in command and elsewhere and then orders the mission. That is the way it's suppose to work in a democracy. In a military dictatorship, the field commanders tell the civilians what to do. I guess in mcbush's world we live in a military dictatorship.

In reality, petraus's political spin on how swimmingly things are going is irrelevant. What's relevant is the political environment in the middle east, the taxing of american men and women in uniform, the desires of the sovereign country of iraq, the geo-political issues, and the costs to the nation. Petraus's bullshit is way down on the list concerning the decision process of a president in a democracy.

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Actually McCain's problem is that the winning of this war is going to break the bank of our country. The war mongering of this administration and many senators of both parties is that they got us into this mess by trusting an untrustworthy President and that support of Bush has bankrupted our country. McCain does NOT know nor do any of us know that Senator Obama was wrong. He was right from the git go. And the people who voted in this sham war against Iraq are guilty of robbing our country blind. And in fact even McCain tells a big lie when he claims the surge worked. All the palaver regarding success that he and Bush pushed has not occurred. If in fact the surge was a success, the Iraqi government would be functional, they would have met all their benchmarks and our military would be out of that hell hole. If this is the way McCain describes success, God help us if he is ever elected. And I intend to write ot every newspaper in the country and remind everyone of that very thing.