Joe Biden: Military Commanders Want Obama To Visit Iraq
There was a striking moment just now on an Obama campaign conference call with reporters: Top Obama supporter Joe Biden said that all the military commanders he talks to privately say they want Barack Obama to make the trip to Iraq that's been ridiculed by the McCain camp.
"One thing I can tell you for certain from recent trips is commanders in the field...all want to see Barack Obama," Biden said, in a reference to Obama's planned trip.
"They know the policy that's being pursued now is one that baffles them," Biden said, stressing that the commanders know, as Obama does, that current troop levels in Iraq can't be sustained and that more resources need to be freed up for Afghanistan.
Biden also came very close to suggesting that the commanders were not favorably disposed towards McCain: "They don't get this administration and they surely don't get John McCain right now."
Biden stressed that he was not speaking for the Obama campaign when he said this.
In another interesting moment, Biden predicted that Obama's planned trip to Iraq and Afghanistan will be a big political success in that it will give the commanders a chance to assess their would-be future commander in chief -- and that they would like who they were seeing.
"They're going to see a man, when they see him, of real strength," Biden said. "They're going to see a man who emanates, who radiates from him conviction and strength, and that this is a solid, solid, solid guy."
It's a striking image indeed. We'll see what happens.
They want someone who will listen to them for a change.
July 14, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
My friends, now that's change we can believe in. Thank You.
July 14, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
...watched Dr. Strangelove last night. YEE-HAW!
July 14, 2008 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden is turning out to be a terrific asset. Part of me dismisses the notion of Biden as VP as recycling a D.C. insider, but another part of me wants his statements elevated to the national level.
He cuts to the punch better than anyone.
July 14, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, well-said about the punch. You got it!
July 14, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well according the all the pundits he is high on Obama's VP list especially with Webb out of the running. He would definitely give Obama credibility on national security and foreign policy issues.
His main problem is staying on message or not running off at the mouth.
July 14, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, that's a huge, huge problem for biden. I know he is trying, but for over 20 years he had run-off at the mouth and foot in mouth disease. I can't imagine that the condition can be changed in a few months, notwithstanding his debate jokes and stuff. I just don't trust him to not make a huge gaffe. He is a gaffe machine and this election is way, way too important for a stupid gaffe to blow it for obama.
July 14, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
...but Joe's so "clean and articulate"...whoops. Did someone say that already?
July 14, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, you are very funny. I vividly remember that gaffe. On the day he announces his candidacy he has to run around apologizing. I felt really bad for him, but he is sooooooo gaffe prone. Biden would be a disaster.
July 14, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Noooo! I LOVE Biden. Even when he gaffes, he's usually right.
July 14, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joe for Veep or whatever he likes! Can't get enough of Joe B.! Hagel for SecDef!
July 14, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would assume the people at the business end of this administration's policy are the ones calling for change. Many of the military I know here in my hometown would welcome a redefinition of mission, and a chance to return to their lives.
July 14, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Emanates" - not "eminates"...
Trudeau had a lot of fun in Doonesbury with the "clean and articulate" Biden-speak.
"Terrorist fist-bumps" for everyone!
July 14, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I want somebody to ask McCain what he would define Victory in Iraq as? I want it pointed out that America went to war because of Iraq's WMD's and to remove Saddam Hussein. Weren't both of those objectives met? Doesn't the current government want America to leave? We were not supposed to be an occupying force - is that what McCain wants?
What were the objectives going in? Did the Military meet those objectives? Basically they need to get McCain to admit that the bill of goods BushCo sold to Americans to get them into a patriotic fervor and support the war was not the real reason for going there. They need to get him to admit he wants long term bases and to get cheap oil. That they wanted the open airspace fir the Israeli airforce should they feel the need to attack Iran.
July 14, 2008 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I want it pointed out that America went to war because of Iraq's WMD's and to remove Saddam Hussein. Weren't both of those objectives met?" Did someone just put up a "Mission Accomplished" banner?
July 14, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Though I'm not a conservative, I agree with our Republican friend here. The jabs at Bush for "Mission Accomplished" were misplaced and actually counterproductive, since they allowed Bush to continue calling himself a "war president."
After the fall of Baghdad, Iraq stopped being a war and started being a peacekeeping mission.
July 14, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would call it "nothing but a military occupation"
July 14, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
"...redefinition of mission..." interestingly put.
July 14, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh boy. This is the beginning of the "now that I've seen the progress there I need to refine my position"...again.
Guarantee that if he goes, Obama no longer sticks to a hard 16 month deadline.
July 14, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, maybe he cuts it to 12 months. The iraqis want us out yesterday. Gee, I wonder why they don't want to even negotiate with the criminals that destroyed their country and killed hundreds of thousands of women and children. They are probably already preparing papers to be filed with the Hague for war crimes against this criminal administration in January. I'm sure the iraqi pols can at least agree on that, if they don't agree on anything else.
July 14, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, if he does, he'll look really stupid for doubling down on the policy in today's NYTimes op-ed and tomorrow's speech?
So fugu, how about we make a bet?
If Obama comes back from Iraq and discards the 16-month timeline, I'll stop posting at TPM. If he comes back and reaffirms the 16-month timeline, you'll stop posting at TPM.
Deal?
July 14, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your mommy is calling you for lunch.
July 14, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll take that as a "you're on... in fact, if he reaffirms the timeline, I'll stick an un-lubed black dildo up my ass."
Whoa fugu, bold words!
July 14, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
too bad you have no credibilty mr. fogu2...the only guarantee you can offer is that you are a sorry ass troll.
July 14, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Other than the fact that my facts check out, I have citations for my references and most all my predictions pan out... you are correct.
July 14, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oooh, so you are a blatant liar too. Congratulations, I am sure lying makes your family proud!
July 14, 2008 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think "sorry troll" is way harsh, I would've gone with "silly troll"... fogu2 is by far my favorite of the trolls. Sometimes I'll click on stories just to look for fogu2 comments... They make me smile.
fogu2 2012!
July 14, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
My fan base!
July 14, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was never a hard line. It was always an estimate based on getting 1-2 brigades per month out of Iraq. That is info given to him by his advisors.
You're just wishing these things to happen. Give it up.
July 14, 2008 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm wishing for it to be 12 months, or sooner. Everyone wants us out, lets get the f*ck out as soon as possible.
July 14, 2008 4:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
gnats in here.
July 14, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
The commanders know that they need to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan is becoming a problem.
I predict it will be a success as well.
July 14, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The commanders want someone who listens and respects their opinions. Barack Obama is that guy and John Cindy McLame is not.
July 14, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
One hundred years!!! Fight, fight, fight!!!
July 14, 2008 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Military contractors cash checks, cash checks, cash checks! Mcbush retirement plan in action. Who cares about the deaths of iraqis and americans and the destruction. It's all about the caaaaassssshhhh.
July 14, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Biden is a silver-tongued devil and always has been - I love to hear him talk, even when I know he isn't going to walk the walk.
Keep him in front of the cameras - he's almost as good off the cuff and the Big Dawg used to be.
July 14, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Joe Biden is fucking awesome.
July 14, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama/Biden '08
July 14, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
No.
Biden represents the Bank of America, which owns the state of Delaware. Biden is deep in corporate interests - think about it. Delware is the corporate capital of the country -
July 14, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, when he voted for the bankruptcy bill he lost any support he ever could have gotten from me.
I do love it when he kicks butt though.
July 14, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm with you.
July 14, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
@#%$#$!@#%@#$%$#%!#$%!!!!!!!!!
AS the Big Dawg used to be...
July 14, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Some amongts us the unworthy kindly would not recognize Big Dawg if he masticated upon our posteriors. Could ya throw us a lifeline, Big Dawg -- whoddat?
Google offers numberous inapposite possibilities, such as "Big Dawg Salsa" http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:vfp8Ay-mwCMJ:www.bigdawgsalsa.com/+%22big+dawg%22&hl=ru&ct=clnk&cd=12&gl=ru and "Wisconsin's Best Country"
Not LBJ?
July 14, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry - Bill Clinton is the Big Dawg.
July 14, 2008 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Masticate on our posteriors? Wow, what an interesting description for "chew on our asses."
July 14, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Every smart military historian knows that it is sheer folly to stretch your forces to the breaking point by creating a second front against yourself. That is what Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/McCain did with their Iraq Invasion. That is why they have allowed The Taliban ans Al Qaeda to regroup and flourish on the Afghanistan front. More Troops are now getting killed there than in Iraq. That is because Bush/McCain left us under forced in Afghanistan while they raced off on their Iraq Lunacy.
We have to get back to the original goal of keeping The Taliban and Al Qaeda from retaking Afghanistan. We only have enough armed forces for that mission, so we have to draw down in Iraq.
The Iraq invasion only accomplished one big thing. It stopped us from destroying The Taliban and capturing bin Laden.
McCain pushed for and enabled that stupidity; which disqualifies him from being a competent commander in chief.
July 14, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent points. One other point though is that our military is not configured, nor designed for long term occupations. We just don't have enough troops in an all volunteer force. Our military is designed for a lightening strike to wipe out an opposing army as quickly as possible and get the f*ck out. Even if we didn't go into iraq, we probably don't have enough troops for a long term occupation of afghanistan either. We need to go in, wipe out the taliban and al queda and get the f*ck out as quickly as possible. Let's end both of these wars asap. This really is beyond comprehension.
I do agree that mcbush is unqualified to be a competent commander in chief. He doesn't have the brain power, among other things.
July 14, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Think of what might have happened if Hitler had not invaded Russia, but instead had concentrated on capturing Britain first. Imagine America having to try and launch a D-Day without having the use of England as a huge staging and planning base.
I think we were fortune to have a foe that was stupid enough to open up a second front before he had secure his western one.
Bush/McCain gave al Qaeda and The Taliban the same break, by diverting our efforts to Iraq.
July 14, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
If hitler didn't invade russia and open up a second front, europe would probably be greater Germany today. It's really frightening when you think about it.
The king and his court are fools. We never had enough troops in afghanistan for the fight either. We should have gone in with overwhelming force, surrounded and destroyed the taliban and al queda and got the f*ck out. We would have had 4 years of peace at this point and no stupid terror alerts. But ohh, the republicans are just brilliant at military strategy. It's amazing how blind the american people are.
July 14, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
not sure i agree.
the soviets tried that and it didn't work out so well.
going in light and supporting the locals with small numbers of elite troops might well have been the best strategy.
it was throwing those troops into iraq that has been less successful (on both fronts).
also, i suspect both wars were fought with one eye on iran. if iraq had gone smoothly, i think it is highly unlikely we would have stopped in iraq.
July 14, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Big difference with the soviets. A large portion of the Afghan population was on our side. It's not like we were trying to take over the country and the people wanted to get rid of the taliban.
Also, bin laden escaped from tora bora in large part because of the lack of american troops. We barely put any boots on the ground in afghanistan. We used air strikes and the northern alliance troops by and large, which I believe was a mistake. We needed more boots on the ground again and now we are paying for it.
July 14, 2008 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Liam, I know I've said this before, but you are one smart cookie. I almost always learn something or gain some new insight from your posts. And idiotic's posts aside, you coined one of the very best phrases to come out of this election: "McCain of the Panderosa," which always makes me laugh when I pass the Ponderosa buffet in town. :D
July 14, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes - Bush made all the same mistakes in Iraq that Britain made and added a whole bunch of new ones to history.
July 14, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe Joe on this one.
What is amazing is the Bush has purged out so many of the commanders on the ground who disagreed with his war -- and STILL the commanders think our strategy sucks.
It is like when McCain surrogate Carly Fiorina was HP CEO and was trying to get shareholder approval for the acquisition/merger of Compaq -- she almost lost the shareholder vote! Logically speaking, a shareholder who disagreed with the strategy would have sold when they announced the plan rather than try to fight it. It showed a real weakness in her leadership and it turned out to be a strategic blunder.
July 14, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
O I do too - I didn't mean to imply that I didn't but I can see where that might have been what came across. I totally believe Biden on this.
I usually do believe Biden. Biden just often fails to believe Biden.
;)
July 14, 2008 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does anybody think this trip is not going to be completely scripted by the Bush administration? Barack will get to talk with the military commanders that Bush wants him to talk to. Regular troops won't be within a mile of him. Paetrus will put on the usual green zone, market place dog and pony show and that will be that.
He'll have a better chance of interacting with real people, when he goes to Europe, where even there, Bushies are trying to control his interactions.
July 14, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, me. I don't think the king and mcbush have as much control over the ground commanders in iraq that you think at this point. They know that there's going to be a new sheriff in town in January, one way or the other, and they want to preserve their careers and not get fired in January. Also, the bulk of the military has been saying that our troops can't handle the multiple deployments and that we have to get out. I don't think the king has as much control anymore as you think. It will be interesting to see what happens when obama is on the ground in iraq.
July 14, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's stance on Iraq is as solid as his stance on FISA, and public financing, and NAFTA and........
He cannot be trusted. And he has no real principles when it comes to his deeds following his words.
Biden is just a pompous ass.
July 14, 2008 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
is your job to be a professional ass? i hope you have family that loves you.
July 14, 2008 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let me get this straight: For months now, the McCain camp has been critical of Obama because he had not been to Iraq since 2006, before the "Surge". But now that Obama has announced plans to make another visit to Iraq, they're critical because he is going???
But then, the "Straight Talk Express" long ago morphed into the "Double-Talk Express".
July 14, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Iraq of course was an insane diversion, by a weak, inexperienced President who couldn't say no to psychos like Paul Wolfowitz, etc., and who dreamed idiotically of glory, avenging Poppy, oil, etc.
Afghanistan -- I read the recent book "The Bin Ladens" and I came away believing that Bin Laden is just an embittered, uneducated buffoon, surrounded by other violent jackasses. (He claims that he is a professor or Great Teacher of whatever, but his family will recount that he never finished college.) He blames US for Chechnya, for example; if they are having trouble, the demon U.S. must be behind it and not the Russians (and anyway they're the same, 'infidels."). He's a nitwit, able to inspire other nitwits and convince similarly uneducated Arab sheikhs to send money for the cause, whatever the hell that was.
This should probably have been handled as a law-enforcement matter. Find the deranged prick and bring him to justice. Two wars over it is really self-destructive. (Of course they haven't met any of their goals except getting rid of Saddam, but what comes next could be worse so it ain't much to crow about.)
July 14, 2008 9:23 PM | Reply | Permalink