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McCain Team Falsely Charges That Obama Opposes Capital Punishment For Bin Laden

The McCain campaign kept up its attacks on Barack Obama as weak on terror for the third day in a row today, falsely charging on a conference call that Obama opposes capital punishment for Osama Bin Laden.

On the call, McCain foreign policy adviser Randy Scheunemann reached this conclusion by a curiously circuitous logical route. It went a little something like this: Yesterday, Scheunemann pointed out, Obama said that Bin Laden should be captured in such a way that doesn't "make him into a martyr."

"The last I checked, a martyr is someone who dies for a cause or someone who is killed for a cause," Scheunemann said. "It seems that Senator Obama is ruling out capital punishment."

Actually, Obama has explicitly said that he doesn't oppose capital punishment for Bin Laden. In July of 2007, he said (via Nexis) that after a trial that observed "international standards of due process," Bin Laden would qualify for execution.

"At that point, do I think that somebody who killed 3,000 Americans qualifies as someone who has perpetrated heinous crimes, and would qualify for the death penalty? Then yes," Obama said.

Not that facts matter, of course.

Late Update: Here's the audio from the call:


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The good news about this is that I expect Obama's camp to respond shortly and vigorously to this. Have you noticed how none of these attacks have gone unanswered? Usually at a certain point the candidate himself speaks up.

By the time the evening news rolls around, the media has not just McCain's attack, but Obama's counter-attack to report.

This is a trap! The McCain camp knows that the death penalty is very unpopular among many African Americans and liberals. He is trying to force Obama to come out as strongly in favor of the death penalty so that we'll all get pissed and vote for McCain.

I know it doesn't make sense, but I still think it's a trap.

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As someone who opposes the death penalty, finding a like-minded candidate is a bit like looking for that atheist candidate who shares my religious views.

I'm not offended that Obama has this position. I wish he didn't, but I'm not surprised that he does.

A lot of African Americans do not support the death penalty because it is/ and had been applied in an unfair way.

Obama was a leader in Illinois in cleaning up a system that was massively incompetent and unfair.

That does not get you all the way to being against it, but tough luck for you.

Excellent point. There are both moral and legal objections to the death penalty. Very few Americans are morally opposed (rightly or wrongly), but many are opposed on legal grounds. Such as: Our criminal justice system is not as great as it's touted to be. Innocent people are convicted with a much greater frequency than you could imagine. Eyewitness testimony is about as reliable as a magic 8 ball, particularly where the incident was a tramautic/critical incident. Prosecutors are given far, far too much power and deference, by courts, statutes, and jurors. And appellate courts are busy doing what they do best: Making sure convicted people stay convicted. Minorities and those living in poverty are nearly the exclusive occupants of the death rows of this country. I could go on, but Obama recognizes these problems, as evidenced by his record in Illinois.

yeah thats a good point i never noticed that and its a good strategy that is working. i remember when he was going against hillary he would wait a while before he responded and then i have to wait the next morning to hear Joe Scarborough read the comment and the attack it.

http://sensico.wordpress.com/2008/06/19/obama-hits-mcbush-on-foreign-policy/

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WWWJBD?

Not even William Jennings Bryan would have opposed the death penalty for bin Laden.

Obama wants to have it both ways.

And once again he's busy clarifying and explaining. Always reactive, never proactive. Never a leader.

Obviously, stupidly uninformed troll, you cannot read. Please go back to school.

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Never a leader? Well, there's a demonstrably false statement.

But, if you want to take hyperbole and smearing out of it, I would agree that Obama could do a better job of driving the media narrative.

Do you know that those words mean? He is "reactive" to the smears on his character, to be proactive is to smear McSame (although McSame gives him PLENTY ammunition) on his so called principals that constantly changes each hour.

Rock on, NavyMom.

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Obama said that Bin Laden should be captured in such a way that doesn't "make him into a martyr."

This isn't about executions you dork. It's about how we go about capturing Bin Laden.

Grow up.

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McCain is an exemplar of wanting to have it both ways:

* Iraq War: Easy | Not!
* Confederate Flag: Offensive | Not!
* Robertson & Falwell: Agents of Intolerance | Not!
* Gay Marriage: OK | Not!
* Bush Tax Cuts: Offend his conscience | Not!

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=3&entry_id=13035

So, I take it Foghat must not support McCain either.

Bored now.

The judgments of mental midgets on the doings of mental giants are of interest only for their entertainment value.

Unfortunately, there's such a thing as too much entertainment.

How much do they pay you for this dribble?

The McCain campaign is obviously Google-challenged.

...and so is their base, which is what they count on. How many people will hear, for example, that domestic oil drilling will do NOTHING to reduce the price of gas at the pump? And yet, the repubs still push that as a selling point.

I don't discount what you say, but, to win, he's going to have to move beyond whatever "base" he has and, chances are, those folks will have computer skills and, in some cases, maybe even blog savvy. These people, those outside his base to whom he might otherwise hold some attraction, will dismiss him as the idiot he obviously is. A brave and heroic idiot, but an idiot nonetheless.

I'd like Bin Laden to suffer in prison for years to come, tethered only to his dialysis machine attached to a backup power generator that sporadically goes out of power every once in a while.

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Execution would be a mercy, compared to this sentence.

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Don't be so hard on yourself. I've seen worse sentences. Hell, I've written worse sentences.

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Thanks for the laugh!

I have always thought that a "Clockwork Orange" like punishment would be suitable...something along the lines of forcing Bin Laden to watch BayWatch reruns 24/7, eat only Hebrew National hotdogs and drink Dr. Pepper and Scotch cocktails.

Now THAT's punishment for a righteous leader like Bin Laden!

Ummmmm...where can I sign up for this "punishment"?

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Whoa, whoa, whoa!

Do not insult the good Dr. OK, I get the Hebrew National hot dogs thing wasn't a slam against those hot dogs, so maybe I'm missing something.

Please tell me you weren't trying to insult the good Dr. Please?

Never would insult the Dr...Pepper or the low end Dr. Perky...but as a mixer? well, either Doc shouldn't make housecalls.

And Dr. P as a mixer with Scotch? shudder

"forcing Bin Laden to watch BayWatch reruns 24/7, eat only Hebrew National hotdogs and drink Dr. Pepper and Scotch cocktails."

How about making him watch home movies from the Sep 11 victims, while listening to the worst patriotic C&w music and drinking warm diet Dr. Pepper (with or without scotch)?

LOL -- I work in dialysis and this sounds about right. Sort of like in "Iron Man" when he had to carry around that car battery to keep his livesaving electromagnet powered up... :P

What a tool!!!!!!!!! Obama wants to ensure this nut is NOT martyred which will only increase the attacks on the world, he wants them to see that "do not f**k with us"

Yeah! Thats totally worked for Israel!

On this one, if it hits MSM, I believe Obama will come out on top. He was very precise on his views and what he meant. This post looks like McCain is grasping at straws with each phrase Obama makes. Has McCain yet to talk about real issues?

Get f***ing real, John McCain. You want Bin Laden executed, but you don't even bother to catch him.

Of course they don't want to catch him. How will they use him as the boogeyman every election cycle if he is in lock-up. His continued freedom is critical to Repug campaign strategy. Him getting caught, or dying, would be a major blow to their agenda.

Mmmmmm, you can smell the desperation. And he is setting himself up for another round of "your policies have let bin Laden go free". Yay!

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The Republicans are obviously relying on sloppy work on the part of people reporting these back and forths.

And with good reason, because sloppy work is prevalent. For instance, NPR told me this morning that Barack Obama was going back on his pledge to accept public financing. Since Obama never said "I pledge to accept public financing", and said, instead "I will agressively pursue my options with regard to public financing", NPR badly mischaracterized the situation. As did MSNBC, CNN, and Fox (given).

So McCain's campaign is betting that the media won't do its work, and this smear will spread.

Thank you, Greg, for being a watchdog on this.

CT, I think Olbermann will hit back on this.

Obama yesterday:
"What would be important would be for us to do it in a way that allows the entire world to understand the murderous acts that he's engaged in and not to make him into a martyr"

Meaning, for idiots like fogu2, that we don't want hero worship terrorists idolizing him, but to realize he is a criminal. He sited the Nuremberg trials as an excellent example of history's treating criminals as they should be.

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O Jesus! Please give me a huge break - Osama is probably already dead.

It was McLame's BFF who got the bin Ladens out of the country on 9-12 and then turned around and let him go when he was trapped on the Pakistan border.

Please spare me this bullshit - the Repugs have done exactly nothing to catch bin Laden. They let him go - and you can't tell me bin Laden doesn't work for Bush and Cheney. Bush and the bin Ladens have been in business together for Commander Coocoo Bananas' entire life.

Indeedy, the Bush administration shuttled Bin Laden's Saudi aristocratic family out of the country while the skies were still closed to other commercial traffic, did everything not to catch Osama himself, and then filled their gulags around the world with illiterate losers picked from poor Afghan villages.

Even if Osama is dead, we must still catch him and kill him. Strom Thurman was dead for years, but didn't stop him from casting votes in the Senate that were very damaging to the country.

LOL!! As a former South Carolinian, I approve that message.

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I don't even like guns and I would volunteer to personally shoot Bin Laden.

I know I'm not alone in thinking that the death penalty is the easy way out for criminals. I know I'd rather be put to death that live the rest of my life in prison.

Me too.

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Me three. Let them rot. It's cheaper in the long run anyway and it doesn't reduce average people sitting on a jury to be murderers for the state. Let them rot.

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The death penalty is barbaric. The US is the only remaining first world nation that still uses it.

It should be abolished altogether. There is too much that dictates getting rid of it over against very little in favor of keeping it besides vengeance. Ok, that's one theory of criminal justice - revenge. It's the single lousiest one, but we've been using it overtly now for about 20 years. We have thrown rehabilitation and protecting the public through deterrence, out the window in favor of revenge.

It's expensive, time consuming and does not deter anyone who is going to murder someone from doing it - it just does not work that way. The death penalty is good for one thing: revenge. That's a hell of a concept on which to run a society.

THANK YOU TENA!!! I am so in your court on this.

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Our criminal justice system is a lot worse than most people know. It's a real honest to god disgrace for a so-called civilized nation.

Any state or nation that puts known schizophrenics in prison, where they promptly have complete psychotic breakdowns and many if not most become completely detached from reality and go into total dementia praecox permanently as a result - has no right to call itself a civilized nation. The US is not a civilized nation.

Our criminal justice system is a national shame, the proportions of which are surpassed only by the criminal justice system in Russia, IMO.

Spot on Tena. It may be the best system (insofar as due process is guaranteed on paper), but that ain't saying much. Our prisons have become nothing but a lame solution to homelessness. Advocates for those in poverty joke that we won't need to worry about affordable housing at the rate we imprison people. Anyone who wants an eye opener on poverty should familiarize him/herself with the work of Dr. Donna Beegle, nationally recognized lecturer/writer on poverty. We cannot speak about criminal justice system intelligently without first understanding poverty.

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Mcbush is flailing all over the place. Obama wants bin laden hanging from the end of a rope, not going down in glory. Duhhh! I wonder if they figured out the difference between sunnis and shias yet. Maybe someone should ask them on one of these stupid conference calls.

Also, once again, McCain attacks and leaves himself WIDE open for a counter-punch.

Talking about how to prosecute Bin Laden reminds people of the fact that he still hasn't been found!!!

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
HR, you've been on a roll today.

haha, thanks.

Just read this, actually, I think at this point this helps McCain.

Donald Rumsfeld's Revenge: Declines To Endorse McCain

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Talking about how to prosecute Bin Laden reminds people of the fact that he still hasn't been found!!

They did find him and they fucking let him go.

They did! They never meant to catch him. A de-fanged bin Laden means no big scary fucking boogey man they can take out and wave around like a bloody shirt in every election.

'They never meant to catch bin Laden. Ever.

lol the McCain camp is throwing these softballs at Obama.

Easiest answer: McCain and his support of Bush's policies make him ineligible to have an opinion on this matter. They have chosen not to catch Bin Laden, and therefore their opinion on the manner of serving justice is not something they have the luxury of being able to make a political debate of.

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It seems like you have to catch the guy before you bring out the firing squad.
This is like wasting time speculating on the fabulous island I will buy when I win the MegaMillions lottery!

this response is hilariously bad. McCain's campaign is so unprepared.

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"It seems that Senator Obama is ruling out capital punishment."

Hey, kids! See if you can find the weasel word in this sentence.

Any time you hear this word used in politics, watch your wallet.

It seems that John McCain is a stupid, unstable, ignorant moron.

Well, it seems that way to me.

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Me too!

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A moron is defined as "an adult with a mental age between eight and twelve". Please do not insult morons.

I wish the Republicans would go ahead and trot out their real candidate. This dummy candidate is not much fun anymore.

McCain is targeting his message at fence-sitters who aren't paying attention much to what's going on.
The problem is, he's trying to create a gaffe or even a full-blown Wright scandal out of everything coming from BHO's mouth. These attacks are losing their effectiveness because everyone knows they are always only half true at best. I think Obama's going to get more fence-leaners on his side by talking about Christianity and courting the blue/purple "reagan dems" with more positive ideas/ rhetoric.
The positivity will seem like a breath of cool air after a decade of Republic party hot air negativity.
This will eventually make McCandidate look small and childish while giving people the gut-feeling that BHO is the adult of the pair.

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I don't know who they think they are appealing to with this - besides McLame's base, which is mainly comprised of the residents of nursing homes, apparently.

This also is in direct contradiction to McLame's jumping up and down over treating terrorists like criminals. If you don't think they should be treated as criminals, then what the fuck are you doing bitching about a hypothetical death penalty?

I thought it was a military action to get bin Laden - not a posse of sheriffs.

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As Ronald Reagan once said: "Facts are silly things".

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I just don't see this as being the big softball the rest of y'all do.

Yes, Obama has been precise, in the past, in making it clear he would favor capital punishment. But for that to have any impact, MSM has to report it. Will they?

I'm not that optimistic. The press is pissed off at the Obama campaign because of the lack of access issue. They love McCain because of how much access he allows.

Yes, McCain is a marginal candidate, with fundraising problems, lukewarm support, and a tendency to be a gaffe machine. But if the press doesn't cover the entirety of these back and forths, it will be McCain's framing of issues that gets attention.

I think the Obama campaign is doing an excellent job at refuting and responding to the McCain campaign.

I'm just not confident that the press is going to notice.

Greg, serious question. When a McCain staffer outright lies on a media conference call like this, is there anyone there that calls them on it? Or does everyone just listen and play along, and either report or debunk their stuff later on?

Also, in your opinion, how do statements like this effect their overall relationship with the media as they cover their campaign?

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Oo, what good questions.

Yes, I was wondering myself -- didn't anyone guffaw when this whopper was trotted out? I would love to listen in on one of these calls...I thought this all the time during the reign of Penn, McAuliffe & Wolfson. It's like they think they're pulling off some impressive rhetorical flourish, a logical masterstroke....but, um, no.

Everyday its a new attack from the McCain camp. Why the hell doesn't Obama hit McCain on being the biggest flip-flopper ever?! Perhaps if Obama said it enough times, the MSM would pick up on it.

Actually, Olbermann did a huge thing last night on all McCain's flip flops, well, actually, only those he had time for. The show is only an hour long.

Yes but KO is preaching to the choir. If the MSM does not start reporting it, it wont stick. And the MSM will not start reporting it, unless Obama starts saying it.

Yes, true on Olbermann, but it does get noticed. I heard some talk about him taking over Meet the Press, but I suspect he is too controversial.

Top headlines on Reuter's has whole Obama speech. Very good. Part of it, for the glasses idiot above, is:

"I think what would be important would be for us to deal with him in a way that allows the entire world to understand the murderous acts that he's engaged in and not to make him into a martyr," he added. "And to assure that the United States government is abiding by basic conventions that would strengthen our hand in the broader battle against terrorism."

This is simply more of what George Carlin calls prick waving. There's only one way for a man to look tough in the world of politics and that is to be very willing to resort to killing, especially in the name of patriotism. Never mind that the death penalty does nothing to deter violent crime, and in the case of bin Laden, would no doubt galvanize the terrorist world even more against the United States. Want to make a martyr out of him? Be my guest. Advocating the death penalty at all is immoral. Advocating it for someone like bin Laden? Just plain stupid.

Well-stated.
The Repubs have always used the "our dicks are bigger" mantra in this realm.
Pathetic.

Maybe that is why Larry Craig is such a hit in public restrooms.

LOL
It came (no pun) about in spades for Repub orthodoxy when they had to make Poppy-Bush look tough instead of showing his inner wimp/limp.

there is little evil in this world greater than Osama Bin Laden. However, does any amount of evil demand a death sentence? What right do we have to take another man's life, even if he has taken the life of others, even if he has taken the lives of thousands? Do we live by modern western Morals, or by the Code of Hammurabi? Taking a man's life does not make him suffer in the way the people he killed, or the families he destroyed did and do. The death penalty for many that receive it is not just unjust, but also inadequate. A man will suffer for years, decades in life in solitary without parole. Keeping a prisoner in for life costs much less than killing him, and the man may have ages to realize true remorse and suffering. Compare Nazi war criminals. Does anyone think that Rudolph Hess had it any better than Adolph Eichmann by serving life in Spandau vs being executed? I should hope not. Bin Laden is evil yes, but should he receive the death penalty? Certainly not. He doesn't deserve that luxury

Whatever happened to that black sheep Hillary troll? He/she disappeared after Obama won the nomination. Hellooooo??? Black sheep?? Where are yooooou???

Maybe McCain will talk about his own candidacy some day.

Critics say the media loves Obama. Hell, Obama is all that MCCAIN wants to talk about either.

There is only one candidate for President this year.

Regardless of Obama's stance, this is a great example of how Republicans dumb down the an issue to suit their needs.

There is a world of difference between believing Osama Bin Laden *deserves* the death penalty and deciding that it is the best course of action. Putting him to death would probably make him a martyr, and fuel the seeds of anti-American hatred. For our national security and world image, locking him up for life might be a better course of action. That doesn't mean OBL doesn't deserve or qualify for capital punishment. It's simply not the best choice given the potential blowback.

I'm guessing Bin Laden prefers not to be taken alive. We should oblige him.


Exactly nirad. Of course he is not in US custody, so the question is typical Republican obfuscation. I suppose the fate of fantasy is the main Republican issue this election along with other huge hot button issues for the USA (as our economy sinks) like:

(1) Partial birth abortion and the constitutional rights of the unborn, and a general preoccupation with sex and the female reproductive tract.

(2) Gay marriage.

(3) Need for Intelligent design in the school curriculum.

(4) Tax relief for dead multi-millionaires.

This is just pathetic.

Sure, McCain camp. Please do bring up bin Laden. Because it reminds us that these dumbshit Republicans took their focus away from him and that almost 7 years after Rudy's favorite day in the world, the guy is still roaming free. It also reminds us that McCain's best pal said he doesn't "know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."

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What to YOU think we should do to Emmanuel Goldstein?

Send entries on a 3x5 card. The top entry will be announced during the Two Minutes Hate.

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