Hillary Privately Urging Her Pledged Delegates To Vote For Obama At Convention
As recently as one week ago, Hillary was still being widely depicted as a Lady Macbethian figure, a kind of she-demon who was still potentially scheming to take the race to the convention, thus destroying the Democratic Party in service of her insatiable ambition. She was still plotting to employ the "nuclear option," as some pundits with rather lurid imaginations put it.
Well, here we are a week later, and it turns out that Hillary is making private calls to her pledged delegates, asking them to vote for Obama at the convention, and urging them to work as hard for Obama as they did for her. This comes after her speech full-throatedly endorsing Obama that pleased many in the Illinois Senator's camp.
I wonder if Frank Rich, Maureen Dowd and Bob Herbert -- all of whom wrote reams of hallucinogenic commentary about Hillary's dark motives during the primary -- will ever find a positive word to say about this or about any future work Hillary does on Obama's behalf.
Late Update: Eugene Robinson of The Washington Post, who was one of Hillary's toughest critics, has now done what his three colleagues above haven't -- he's written a column today hailing Hillary's "gracious" exit from the race, which he says "couldn't have been classier."
My point here is not to airbrush away past tactics of hers that were questionable. It's simply to wonder whether those who attacked her for months on end will have something to say about it now that she has not fulfilled the cartoonish expectations they set.















I really wish you hadn't put this sort of sarcastic bent on your article, Greg. A straight-up report of that would have made people look at this better.
Instead, you've put people onto the defensive regarding their views of Clinton's behavior during the primary season.
June 10, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here's the transcript of one of her calls. You decide if she's being helpful or not.
June 10, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
WOW! Like, totally wow!!! What a FAB avatar!!!!!
June 10, 2008 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bonus points for finding the source.
June 10, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg - a week ago there was a lot of consternation about Hillary's behavior and with good reason.
She's doing the right thing now and deserves credit, and many of us are ready to move on.
But revising history to wash away all sins is intellectually dishonest in the extreme.
June 10, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think those that predicted the "nuclear option" were wrong. My point is that perhaps those who said the worst about her should perhaps consider also weighing in on what she's doing now.
June 10, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Marsha, Marsha, Marsha..."
June 10, 2008 1:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those that predicted it were wrong, indeed. But your post was more than about that. You didn't limit it to just that, but you focused on those who talked about her "dark motives" and dismissed it all as "reams of hallucinogenic commentary."
Well, whatever her motives, I found many of her tactics - not the least of which was flying into Florida just when Obama was trying to introduce himself to voters and gining up anger and passion amongst her supporters by comparing her cause to Zimbabwe, civil rights, and slavery - to be very suspect if not highly damaging.
There was a legitimate point to be made by criticizing her for her motives and tactics (I'll throw out another, promoting the qualifications for C-i-C of the Republican over your fellow Democrat).
But your post didn't focus just on the "nuclear option" but on anyone who talked about her "dark motives during the primary."
If you think that she didn't deserve the criticism, then you'll have to defend that case. But if you want to limit it to those who got it wrong on the "nuclear option," then perhaps you should re-edit.
June 10, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
My point is that perhaps those who said the worst about her should perhaps consider also weighing in on what she's doing now
I'm sure Keith Olbermann is going to have a special comment on this issue.
Not.
June 10, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Um, Greg - Hillary was THREATENING the nuclear option.
It wasn't just brought up out of thin air.
And while you at it, when will YOU ask if Paul Krugman (and other like him) "will ever find a positive word to say about this or about Obama"?
I've NEVER seen you running to Obama's defense from Dems who thought the worst of him.
Jeez.
June 10, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about someone do a post on Sid Blumenthal and what a hypocrite he is?
Huh? Has anyone talked to him about his propaganda campaign against Obama?
That really should be discussed more thoroughly, IMO. It was fucking outrageous.
June 10, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
And let's not forget Joe Wilson's maniacal anti-Obama rants in the HuffPo. What the hell got into him? Has he said anything lately, or do we just assume he'll be joining the Disconsolate Whiners For McCain?
June 10, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not to mention HRC & her minions threatened to 'steal' pledged delegates, played on supers fears directly by using Rev. Wright, Will Ayers & Michelle Obama being "angry" while trying to sway them.
NO, Greg. These newsers aren't to blame for their low opinions of, or lack of faith in, Hillary.
Hillary Clinton is.
June 10, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Checking briefly from vacation to offer applause to joshuablog for this observation.
Well done, sir.
June 10, 2008 8:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would add Josh Marshall and a few other bloggers to your list that includes Rich, Modo and Herbert. Quite a few folks had an ongoing field day playing the pillory Hillary game, and the progressive blogosphere was hardly the exception. I think it's appropriate to look inward first before we start throwing stones at the neighbors who deserve it.
Of course, it is now a political or economic imperative for so many to now claim to have always liked Hillary, but that it was just. . .(insert offense or Mark Penn or whatever). The only thing I will say on Josh's behalf is that he figured out what he had become and chilled a bit at some point after the Indiana/North Carolina primaries. To his credit, while he made a video out of the RFK episode, Josh never accused Hillary Clinton of praying for the death of Senator Obama. I guess for that his loyal readers who supported Hillary should be grateful. For all I know, maybe Josh will go back to questioning the credibility of the "news" coming from Matt Drudge. Now that would be something.
June 10, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg:
Ben Smith just updated his report to say that Hillary is NOT releasing her pledged delegates, but asking them to back Obama.
June 10, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, you speak as if Hillary's own campaign gave no reason to believe that she would take the fight to the convention. This is not about Maureen Dowd, as despicable as Maureen Dowd is. This is about the message that the Clinton campaign officially sent, as expressed by Ickes before the rules commission. It does not get more official than that. Don't change history. They did threaten the nuclear option.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=frApBNgcNJs
June 10, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Btw, before any mea culpas, Hillary supporters need to stop pushing that winning-the-popular-vote lie lest her supporters continue to believe that the nomination was somehow stolen, as the Republicans are now claiming with their Obama-nomination-by-party-bigwigs meme.
June 10, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Precisely
June 10, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. And Obama was not in a position to contest Hillary's bloated numbers, since to do so would have alienated those HRC claimed as her supporters. All Obama could do was grind his teeth while HRC perpetuated this notion that she was the popular vote winner. It's not as if he could say, "Oh, and Puerto Rico is gonna help us how much in the GE?"
June 11, 2008 1:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hooray For Clinton! She didn't live down to the low expectations we had for her after 6 months of divisive bullshit!!!!!!!!!! Yay. This makes it all better.
June 10, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I admit that Clinton is surprising me . . .
June 10, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
And heading up that list should be Rachel Maddow who made ridiculous claims regarding this during MSNBC's primary coverage and nightly on Race For the White House.
June 10, 2008 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Rigors and stress of the campaign trail have taken their toll on John McCain, and he is starting to show his age. Look at this recent picture of him.
http://greek.wunderground.com/data/wximagenew/a/avtanski/25.jpg
June 10, 2008 1:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Senator Clinton is as tough as they come.
And I'm relieved that she's doing this, because I was starting to wonder about the entire Clinton campaign's grip on reality.
And Greg?
The answer to your question is that Maureen Dowd will never be able to say anything genuinely positive about Clinton, Bob Herbert, maybe, and Frank Rich? Probably not.
June 10, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have long ago ceased to read Maureen Dowd because she is unwilling (perhaps incapable) to write anything worthwhile, prefering instead to indulge in fatuous sarcasm for sarcasm's own sake.
June 10, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
I loathe her. I find it humiliating that Maureen Dowd is one of two women columnists for the Times. She's perennially trapped in a highschool mindset.
Why does she keep getting paid for that crap? Contrast Maureen Dowd with Molly Ivins, e.g., and it becomes even more mystifying.
If they're looking for a woman to comment on whatever the hell she's supposed to be commenting on, there are any number of more insightful, thoughtful, and hell, more GROWN UP women columnists out there. Katha Pollit, for instance, or Patricia Williams.
Sorry. I think she's a disgrace.
June 10, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Word up on Maureen.
She is empty-headed and embarrassing. Vacuous.
I cannot understand what she's doing at the Times.
June 10, 2008 1:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are we to believe you htought this before her commentary tipped against Clinton? She was quite tough on both until Clinton came after the likely nominee on preparedness, putting a shivin the party's ribs.
June 10, 2008 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
100% agreed, but compared with Molly Ivins, Maureen Dowd does have the advantage (for a working columnist) that she is alive.
(I miss your kick-assedness, Molly. Hope the Lege is better up there.)
June 10, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
all due credit to her for coming around to reality.
all due derision on those who earn their megabucks by embarking upon pointless pontifications.
June 10, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm so glad she decided to get sane and do the right things for the country. That's what it boils down to - what's best for the country. I really hoped she'd end up here.
But in fairness to myself, and everyone else, including just about every editorial cartoonist in the country - for awhile it did not look like she was going to end up here.
So maybe some of the criticism finally took hold. I'm not apologizing for thinking and speaking harshly about the Clintons -- I do not like the way she campaigned.
And that's my prerogative.
Just like it's my prerogative now to give her mad props for this. This is the Hillary Clinton I thought I knew, and I'm glad she's back.
June 10, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, Tena. Clinton deserves her due. I was hoping she'd come around. I just didn't know when.
I would say it's time to put the kitchen sink behind us. That's politics, unfortunately, old school, gotcha politics, but politics none-the-less.
I'm too am glad she got the message and has come around to doing what's best for the country.
Regardless of how you feel about the candidates, that's the big picture here. We've got to get Republicans out of the Oval Office this year.
June 10, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
As long as we are giving credit in hindsight for Clinton's restraint, I notice that Ben Smith had a little piece about how Penn and Bill Clinton were urging Sen Clinton to launch a line of attack based on the idea that Sen Obama was not "American" enough. This would have been beneath contempt, and it is a credit to Sen Clinton that she thought as much and resisted the idea.
June 10, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Feel Greg's pain
40 mg prozac STAT
Keep him away from sharp objects Eric
June 10, 2008 1:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
(post 4)
That's so cool. Way to go Senator Clinton.
June 10, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Giving credit to Hillary for supporting the nominee and her party's best interest is like giving credit to a husband for not beating his wife.
She divided this party in her own egotistical drive for power, and endorsed McCain over Obama.
I give her no credit, I only say "FINALLY".
June 10, 2008 1:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
You have a point - someone once was praising a father whom I knew had been a cold and demanding father, by saying: He always provided well for his family.
Well, hell - should I give hima cookie for doing what he's supposed to do?
I give Hillary mad props for finally coming to her senses. But you are actually dead-on right - this is really just what she is supposed to do, just like she expects Barack's help with her fucking record-setting campaign debt.
June 10, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Indeed. Too little, too late - after too much dragging the dregs. You want a pony now? No - don't think so.
They should lay in the swamp they swished.
June 11, 2008 5:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, for all we know she was considering the nuclear option.
Gheez, after Indiana and NC the whole MSNBC crew thought she was going to be bowing out gracefully, except for Rachel Maddow--turns out Rachel was right!
Stop it with the Hillary as victim crap already.
June 10, 2008 1:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think there's a way of arguing, simultaneously, that
1) Some of Hillary's tactics were questionable and that she was considering taking this to the convention, which would have been bad;
and
2) Now that she's done the right thing, the same folks who wrote the worst about her could also consider addressing this, too
June 10, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
That would mean admitting that they were wrong, in the end, when they wrote about what a monster she is.
Not going to happen.
June 10, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
yep
June 10, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg -
You're so full of it.
Most of use on here (on Saturday) were praising her speech. We were giving her credit.
The news that she's doing the right thing now with these phone calls is good news.
But you didn't just report the news and let us focus on it, you used the news as some sort of "I told you so" taking away from the news itself.
YOU didn't let ANYONE praise her.
June 10, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
"That would mean admitting that they were wrong, in the end, when they wrote about what a monster......"[CTVoter].
Greg, If you had done even a single timely post on the anti-Obama screeds [like those at NoQuarter by the once-upon-a-time TPM favored poster Larry Johnson] or about the unreal ugliness of the unhinged Hillaryites who are still pushing conspiracy stories to trash our nominee....... you know, those who never 'would admit that they were wrong, in the end, when they wrote about what a monster....' then you, Greg, would have some standing to say, 'Yep', or to proffer this post and your editorializing sour grapes about folks being wrong about Hillary.
But you didn't, and apparently won't ever defend or ever promote Obama as you have Clinton. Instead, the posts here continue to either be about Hillary [fourth one today?], or to have headers all of which, for whatever reason you headline writers follow, convey embedded negatives about Obama by designing the headline itself to 'repeat' the GOP's latest negative about Obama.
Lastly, I would ask you if you really think it journalistic balance to allow that the Hillary fans need time to 'get over the recent past' before they 'come around'....but the Obama fans who suffered all of the ugliness toward him don't also need time to do the same?
June 10, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice one, Donna.
"Journalistic integrity" - good comment.
June 10, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
The "they" I was referring to were those columnists who write for a living, and are published, not the people on blogs.
Just for the record, and all.
June 10, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ouch, Donna. Just ouch.
I find myself nodding in agreement as I read your post for the second time. It is easy to point to idiots like Rich and Dowd and accuse them of being just that, idiots. But you seem to want to wish away the reality that their criticisms came from things Hillary and her campaign said and did throughout the primaries. I will never forget her "Commander in Chief Threshold", "as far as I know", "RFK was assasinated in June", etc. Those instances happened, and she will have to live with the consequences of those statements and actions. Many admirers of her and her husband (including me) would now just like to see the Clintons exit the national stage, and make room for the new guy. I really hope they will work hard to cement whatever legacy they have left by helping Obama. I don't expect too much, though, honestly.
June 10, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
More standing applause for DonnaG for this.
I notice that Greg has no response. Laughable.
June 10, 2008 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
They wrote the worst because they thought the worst. Saturday wasn't so good that all is forgotten. Being four days late and stealing the week didn't help matters.
Generally when columnists come down on someone, it's at least a somewhat considered opinion, based on a lot of behavior. One speech isn't going to turn it around for anyone.
Also, on Rich: his columns are always about half a week behind the news. That's his schtick; he's weekly. He was tougher on Clinton on Sunday than he needed to be, but most likely it was already written before she spoke on Saturday.
Bottom line: these people don't like her. They don't have to like her. And everything she's doing for Obama is in her self-interest. She took the likely-nominee-bashing to the very last moment she could, and now she has to furiously cover her ass. The most you should expect from them is that they ignore her now. Which is of course the only way to hurt her, so I expect that's what they'll do.
June 10, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm reminded of a Dick Van Dyke episode. Laura lets it slip on a game show that Alan Brady wears a toupee. Laura goes to Alan's office to apologize and Rob rushes in to try and stop her. Alan (the great Carl Reiner) has all of his toupees lined up in front of him, and rakes Laura over the coals for a while, but admits that his wife and his butcher (and Laura) prefer him bald, so he's willing to let her off the hook.
"So you're happy this happened?" Laura asks.
Alan turns to Rob and says, "See? It's not good enough that I forgive her, now I'm supposed to be happy about it!"
June 10, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, exactly.
And it was a great episode too.
June 10, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hear you Greg. Although, I for one do not see that HRC has done the right thing, yet. Rather, and might I add reluctantly so, HRC is just starting to do the right thing. This alone, I agree deserves kudos.
However, as many have reported, the tone and tenor of her support of Obama as the Democratic nominee is crucial. Since her speech on Saturday this is, arguably, evident.
HRC can pivot politically like no one, and despite a spirited primary season, she can become Obama's #1 cheerleader. This is what is needed. Period. Anything less, will limit the extent to which the Party does indeed coalesce and unify. With the calculating ways of the Clinton's, the absence of such a committed approach be convenient indeed (think 2012).
Therefore, I would also add the need for consistency and a sustained vigor of such an endorsement, on the part of HRC is necessary as well. Time will only tell.
June 10, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
apologies for the typos. :)
Also, time will only tell whether she will have done the right thing.
Given your obvious loyalties Greg, I can understand why you would like us to buy into this notion that she already has done so.
June 10, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Work of Mercy: Comfort Greg Sargent
Someone's cryin Lord KumbayaJune 10, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I tried to give Greg the benefit of the doubt during the primary. Heck, I think I even defended him from folks calling him in the tank for Hillary (I've been an Obama supporter since last summer). But it's becoming more and more obvious from the tone of his posts post-primary that he can't help himself from defending her, alomost-but-not-quite praising her and holding her up as the end-all-be-all of the Democratic Party. Sorry, Greg, but I gotta call 'em like I see 'em. Obama won. She did not. Move on.
June 10, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't cry for Hillary Greg
Give money
June 10, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think pundits were pulling the "nuclear option" stuff out of their asses. Not so long ago Hillary herself was reminding everyone that pledged delegates could vote however they wanted. You can't blame people for taking her at her word.
June 10, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
...and that superdelegates can change their mind
June 10, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
why does our tax paying dollars go towards a convention that is of no point......
why have pledged delegates & super delegates vote at the convention if we already have the winner, who has already began a general election campaign...... its not like the delegates are going to change there minds between know and the convention......
the covention is a waist of tax payers dollars.
June 10, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The convention is not funded with tax dollars.
June 10, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've seen those taxpayers' waists and they are indeed huge.
America is fat.
June 10, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pretty sure the parties pay for their conventions.
And one's pants size has nothing to do with the convention or tax dollars, as far as I know.
June 10, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not sure why Hillary is getting credit for her recent actions. This is not what she intended to do. The only reason she is behaving so friendly to Obama is that her support base was ready to bolt away from her.
Her only face saving move now is to support Obama. I'd given her more credit if she started making these moves before the entirety of the New York delegates brought the hammer down on her. Like say in her speech last Tuesday when Obama won the nomination for instance.
June 10, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank god you posted this, Greg! I was starting to go through Clinton withdrawal - three whole Election Central posts without any Clinton content whatsoever!
June 10, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!
June 10, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Has she come out and declared in public that she is releasing all her delegates, and asked them all to vote for Senator Obama at the convention. Has she said in public that she will not put her name in nomination, at the convention. If she is calling her delegates, in private, and urging them to switch to Senator Obama, why does she not throw in all her cards, and ask them to do so, in public? It seems like that would have a much greater impact, and would deliver a powerful unity message to all Democrats.
Why is she not doing so?
June 10, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Precisely, Liam. Why call pledged delegates privately to suggest voting for Obama at the convention, when HRC might have released them -- as part of a whole-hearted, unambiguous endorsement of Obama -- last Saturday?
If she were to release them now, would that qualify as "concession" rather than "suspension"? And would that affect how long she has to be repaid -- alleged to be the reason for the "suspension" option?
June 10, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
i'm with Greg. who can forget all the wonderful things Hillary has done for Obama?
Liek that time she did him that HUGE favor by saying JOhn McCain was more qualified to be president than he was.
Or that time when, out of the goodness of her heart, she called Obama "elitist and out of touch."
Or how about when she got his back in dispelling those "Obama is a muslim" rumors by categorically stating he wasn't a muslime "as far as she knows".
Or that one time during the ABC debate when she tried to show Obama was not a radical by saying louis farakhan's name over and over again.
God Bless that Hillary Clinton. She's done soooo much to help Obama win against McCain and she doesn't get any credit at all...poor poor Hillary.
June 10, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ooo, I likes you and this comment a whole lot.
:)
June 10, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary Clinton has a lot of damage to repair, and quite honestly, i don't know if i'll ever think of her in a positive way again.
If she thinks doing something ordinary and routine like releasing her delegates to the nominee will do it, she's sorely mistaken.
In a perfect world, she should apologize for all those horrible things she said and did, but she's a clinton and clintons never ever apologize. So what will i take in return?
Well for starters, how about a forcefull attack on John McCain explaining to all those disheartened women voters out there that John McCain does not favor equal rights for women, does not favor equal pay for women, that he wants to pack the supreme court with right wing reactionaries who will not only overturn roe, but will take this country back to the 1830s while they're doing it. And that, if you support Hillary Clinton and her goals, the very last thing you'd want to do is vote for John McCain because he would undermine everything she's worked her whole life for.
It's an argument only she can make to those women because they'll ONLY listen to her. She could have done that in her "concession" speech on Saturday.
Instead she chose to blame sexism and play the victim card one last time to undermine Obama's legitimacy as the nominee and to position herself for her future aspirations (whatever they may be).
No. Hillary Clinton, after all the damage she's done, will not get my thanks until she's earned it.
And just releasing her delegates, isn't nearly enough.
June 10, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
One last thing:
I don't think its too much to ask that she go after John McCain with the same energy and enthusiasm that she so eagerly attacked Obama with.
June 10, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cheers and spot on.
Thank you.
June 11, 2008 6:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm still waiting for all or some of those to show up in some 527 ad against Obama. Can you imagine Grandpa McSame won't want those used? Nah.
June 10, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wait no more.
http://www.rnc.org/
Click on "Democrats vs. Obama"
I'm glad Clinton's doing the right thing. I was thrilled with her speech, and have repeated as much. But to demand apologies & praise from her critics seems a little much.
Maybe they need time, first. They're exhausted, you know
June 10, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the link, which all good Democrats should watch to understand exactly how damaging Hillary has been to our party.
June 10, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well certainly we know Obama never employed any questionable tactics, don't we. Some say sending memos out to the media from a Rupert Murdoch owned NY Post that they even retracted went beyond the pale, or asking the Atlantic to probe into Bill Clinton's sex life, sending out false misleading Republican attack mailers on health care, demanding tax returns, or calling her untrustworthy, divisive, polarizing, or calling her Sen Punjab. Oh well.
June 10, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
huh?!
HUH?
You smokin' somfin....
June 10, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Atlantic, Vanity Fair...what's the diff?
Where's Stash???
Or Zebrahead?
June 10, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hi CT Voter!
I'll bring Stash back in few weeks. I'm leaving for Japan tomorrow. Then to New Guinea. My boyfriend's there and I have not seen him in a year. When I get back, I'll bring Stash back. Promise!;)
This avatar is ocean at dawn in a fog.
June 10, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
That one reaches new heights, Mark.
Paranoia much, dude?
June 10, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't wanna rehash the primary battle but i'm not going to let those charges go unanswered.
the truth is the ultimate defense.
Hillary was and is divisive (look at how shes divided the party).
she was untrustworthy(gas tax holiday, anyone?).
and as for your last point, how dare Obama call for transparency in govt by asking her to release her tax returns so we know where she got the money she was funding her own campaign with? The nerve of that guy...
ANd the Sen. Punjab thing has been debunked so many times...hillary called herself that, so it wasn't that big of a deal until the clintons decided to try and score political points off of it (At a recent fund-raiser, she was introduced by an Indian doctor, and reportedly joked, "I can certainly run for the Senate seat in Punjab and win easily.").
But look, the point is, undoubtedly that Hillary Clinton ran a far more negative and cynical campaign than did Obama. And she's got work to do to repair that damage.
Thats all i'm saying.
June 10, 2008 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent post. And to add to others--it seriously bothers me that she is nearly $40 in debt. Kids, bikes, etc. come to mind but also her supporters' money. All for what? Why aren't they mad at Hillary for wasting their energy and money? No, it must be all of us Obama supporters who are to blame!
All the damage she did to Obama during this time when anyone else would have resigned. And now we're the ones with hallucinations...right...
June 10, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Somewhat off topic, but if you have not seen today's This Modern World, you really ought to check it out.
June 10, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, it's amazing how perfectly Tom can render McCain's scary, scary forced smile. Too bad he can't add the audio of the equally frightening forced laugh.
By the way, I just realized where the inspiration came for the brilliant "let's make the old man as scary as possible" commercial!
June 10, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Love that green background's phrase!
If McCain's rictus grin gets any wider, his dental work will pop out of his mouth and clatter across the podium.
June 10, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, it's about time. But she's doing it.
Yes, I know of her sins against the party, but
it's time to go forward...A united party at the convention is what we need.
June 10, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a great move for Hillary and for the Dems in general. By not doing this part publicly she still can slip back to the forefront like she wants to if "something happened" but obviously give Obama the united convention that we will need to see.
I've had a lot of criticisms of Senator Clinton in this campaign especially recently and I don't take any of it back; but I am very impressed and pleased with her actions over the last 4 or 5 days.
June 10, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Me too. That speech on Saturday was by far the best concession speech I've ever heard, and this, phoning pledged delegates and working on behalf of Obama, when she could have taken a month off and hidden out in the Bahamas and no one would have batted an eye, is also excellent.
June 10, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry. I still don't trust her. Of course she has to encourage her delegates to support Senator Obama if she wants to be VP. I'm more worried about a cesarian drama if she is.
June 10, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
To be fair, the NYT reported that still on Tuesday she was intending to give herself TWO WEEKS to decide whether she wanted to go to the convention.
The only reason she indeed graciously changed course is because her own supporters pressured her very badly on Wednesday.
She is not a she-devil but she did not come to that conclusion on her own either.
June 10, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly!!!
Does anyone praise a thief for admitting a crime after they've be caught and convicted.
Every indication Clinton gave was that she was using her delegates as a power play. The problem for her was that those delegates did not like being treated like pawns and had political aspirations of their own to attend to.
June 10, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maureen Dowd, no. Never. Unless she can work it into some slam on Obama's masculinity.
June 10, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
anyone have a comment on Eugene Robinson's column?
June 10, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's appropriate that Eugene Robinson writes about "grace", because that column is about as gracious as I think we're ever going to see about Senator Clinton.
And I agree with it.
June 10, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
My issue with Clinton is not what she did but when she did it.
June 10, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, It's ok. We'll get to him. Right now we are too busy dissecting Maureen.
June 10, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
How does Maureen get away with making every sentence a paragraph, and double-spacing those? The Times used to pay by the word, but apparently no longer. Then again, this way there is a balance between quantity and quality. Still, she does turn a phrase nicely, so long as it is short.
June 10, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
It seems pretty standard, not as glowing as your four or five posts during the speech and few posts after it, but Robinson's artlice seems in line with what everyone else has been saying since she gave it days ago. It was a good speech, well delivered, and gracious, and magnanimous. She rocks!
thanks for the opportunity to comment, again, on how super cool Senator Clinton was in conceding the nomination she had extremely little chance of winning since Pennsylvania. Kudos. Kudos to her, and kudos to you.
June 10, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg,
Gene Robinson is a decent guy, and his columns almost never get into the pop psychology BS that possesses Dowd and Rich.
Over the past few months, Robinson has pointed out what he believes to be the unsavoriness of parts of Clinton's campaign. In his column today, he didn't say he was wrong in his criticisms, or that he was sorry for things he had written. He simply said she has handled her exit with grace. I agree.
Many of us here at TPM have said the same, and have praised Hillary for doing what she needed to do for party unity and a Democratic victory in November.
Let us not forget that Hillary, Bill, et all were responsible for her demise, and by their own actions, lost the respect and admiration (and votes) of many Democrats this primary season. It wasn't the media who established the "CiC threshold", suggested Obama was "Jesse Jackson", wasn't a Muslim "as far as I know", or reminded us the "RFK was assasinated in June". It also wasn't the media, but Clinton surrogates like Ickes and Lanny Davis that brought up the "nuclear option" and various other doomsday scenarios involving "automatic delegates", "popular votes", etc., etc. ad nauseum.
June 10, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gene deperately wants Obama to win, and at the moment that is equal to making everyone feel good. He's perfectly on-point; this whole thread on the other hand is counter-productive (...but fun!!!).
...Also, he probably really liked her speech. But that doesn't mean others are under some moral obligation to render retroactively inactive everything they've ever said about Hillary.
June 10, 2008 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
As her pledged delegates start rushing, in droves, over to Obama, Senator Clinton raced after them to tell them that she was now urging them to do what they were already doing.
June 10, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
liam, you are so damn right! Succinct, too.
June 10, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama veep vetting team looks at retired military
Excerpt:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Barack Obama is considering former top military leaders among his possible running mates, according to a senator who met Tuesday with the Democratic presidential candidate's vice presidential vetting team.
North Dakota Sen. Kent Conrad told The Associated Press said the team asked him about potential candidates from three broad categories - current top elected officials, former top elected officials, and former top military leaders.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA_VEEPSTAKES?SITE=NYPLA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Use the link to read the entire report.
June 10, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think that would be a very damn good idea for a veep, under the circumstances.
June 10, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
The money quote. I wish those people who say they are her pissed off supporters would read this.
And she was gracious. Robinson is right.
June 10, 2008 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry Greg - I've generally avoided the daily attacks on you as being a shill for Hillary. But you really showed that to be true here. And you pretty much invited the piling-on you're getting now. And while I've posted many anti-Hillary remarks over the last few months I've also, as have many others, recently posted statements saying it's time to unite and stop trashing her.
But you're actually being divisive by pulling this stunt.
"...those that predicted the "nuclear option" were wrong."
First, many of us didn't "predict" it, we were afraid she would go that route - with damn good reason - so using the word "predict" is fundamentally dishonest. If I say I'm afraid Bush is going to attack Iran and if by next January he ultimately doesn't attack Iran - does that mean I was wrong to raise the issue and sound an alarm about it?
Second, the fact that something didn't happen that could have doesn't mean the individual gets credit afterwards. Reagan played brinksmanship with the Soviets. Maybe you're too young to remember the anti-nuke movement of the 80s but we were genuinely terrified he was going to get us all blown up. Well, he didn't, despite a huge arms buildup. Does that mean his tactics were right? Do you think he was correct in pushing the arms race further? I have to assume you do based on your rationalization that Hillary deserves some sort of credit for not doing something that she never should have considered in the first place.
I could go on - but why bother? I'm happy to give Hillary credit for now helping Obama win. And if she helps lots I'll give her lots of credit. But pretending she didn't try to destroy him as a candidate and wasn't using her and Bill's version of the Southern Strategy to do it isn't what unity is supposed to be about. I was willing to drop all that - including Rob Andrews's claims about the HRC campaign intentionally feuling the black-Jewish divide - to move forward with a unified party. But your editorial offering can't go without response.
Frankly, your stupid remarks really pissed me off. So much for unity.
June 10, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Couldn't agree more.
June 10, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know... while this is the right thing for Hillary to do, I admit I'm cynical. It seems more of a political expedient than altruism. What does she want?
June 10, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's be clear.
SHE'S DOING THIS TO HOPE FOR OBAMA SUPPORTERS TO HELP BAIL OUT HER DEBT!
Why doesn't she do this publicly? B/c that would piss off her Clintonazi feminist hag supporters.
June 10, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, that's very classy of you.
"Clintonazi feminist hag supporters".
No, there's no sexism in any discussion of Senator Clinton.
"Clintonazi feminist hag supporters".
Really, really nice.
Stunted emotional growth, much?
June 10, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fraking stop with that kind of language already!
June 10, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
"hag"?
really?? wow.
Way to stay classy
June 10, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Appreciate the skepticism of HRC's intentions, teahead. But your rant is thoughtless, reactionary and unproductive to say the least.
June 10, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's awful. Come on. Have some class.
June 10, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bad post, man. Man ad hominem attacks.
June 10, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's really nasty - and uncalled for.
That said, your post has resulted in another $10 to the Troll Fund for Obama!
TROLL FUND FOR OBAMA - $30 (and counting)
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/06/troll-fund-for-obama.php
June 10, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fine. I've changed my mind. The Smurfette's idea of a dollar per troll is doable for me.
June 10, 2008 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
"teahead", indeed. We don't need Repub trolls trying to sow division around here. Go away!
June 10, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it makes you feel better I'll give her credit for what she IS doing. However I do still question her motives and her actions in the past.
Does anyone think she would be behaving this way if her supporters did not demand it last Wednesday?
June 10, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Her motivation was to win at any costs. Given the outspoken supporters she had, the relative closeness of the race, and the stakes this year, I can't blame her for staying in.
The kitchen sink was the objectionable part, one I'm willing to forgive AND forget as politics as usual.
Time to drop thoughts of the past, and focus on the future because the stakes in the general are too high this year to get stuck thinking about the primary.
June 10, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am all for unity and I am willing to forgive the past. I just have a little problem with people wanting, begging, to give praise to Clinton for her sudden change of heart.
During this campaign I have seen a side of her that is really troubling. She is going to have to work hard to gain my respect again and it won't happen overnight. She'll have to actively support Obama without a hint of it being for her own personal gain. It will take that and time... A lot of time.
June 10, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't count on it, Greg.
June 10, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't blame us. Blame Greg. He inserted the idea that Rich and Herbert were into hallucinogenically attributing dark motives to Hillary. That made us remember all the stuff she did.
June 10, 2008 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
We're still waiting for YOUR big, in depth piece on the historic nature of Barack Obama's primary win, Greg, and his becoming the first African American Presidential candidate of either party in our nation's history.
YOU never once 'celebrates" this feat; never wrote about the meaning of it to this country and the world at large.
I mean, the world is in AWE right now.
Where is it?
June 10, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Similarly, I'm just happy that Hillary people are coming on board now. I don't need them to apologize for not having been previously.
June 10, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm a long time Obama supporter. I welcome Clinton supporters.
But this: "Clintonazi feminist hag supporters", and the lack of any reaction to it, is deplorable.
Why would Clinton supporters want to post here? This entire set of comments is a fullthroated roar of criticism directed toward Clinton (Obama won, people, or haven't you noticed) or Greg, for being biased in Clinton's favor.
And then "Clintonazi feminist hag supporters" is thrown out there, and there's nothing but freaking crickets, outside of me and evainne.
Welcome, Clinton supporters, and come see how classy we all are over here.
June 10, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
You want to police people, go ahead. I'm not a cop. I get pulled into Weaver b.s. sometimes and it's a waste of time. It doesn't change anything.
There are a thousand posts here a day where someone says something mean, or off-color. We should all go off-topic to reprimand people?
June 10, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Word.
and a great big smile to you for throwing a kiss to the first amendment.
June 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I guess "nazi" and "feminist hag supporters" are a little more than "off color" to me.
June 10, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you denounce and reject them?
June 10, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hah! Thanks for the laugh...
June 10, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hm, I neglected to respond based on a "don't feed the trolls policy." In other words, my lack of a response was meant as a means of not rewarding bad behavior. As such, I am not sure that you should read approbation or even indifference into the lack of posted responses.
June 10, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo.
Don't feed the Trolls. Even if they are wearing Obama '08 tee-shirts.
June 10, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow--this is the THIRD post you've made (though the 2nd on the thread, the 3rd chronologically), outraged about the "Clintonazi" statement, which has allowed you to repeat it about 7 times. Do you not realize that the image you portay is of a 2nd grader dancing from foot to foot shouting, "He said a bad word! He said a bad word!"
We agree already. But the whole thread needn't be devoted to one idiot's piece of ugliness.
June 10, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I want to go on record as saying that absolutely deplore comments like "Clintonazi feminist hag supporters".
My eyes use to roll over when I heard talk about sexism from the Clinton camp, but I guess they were not entirely wrong about that.
June 10, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Forget "in depth" -- I'd be happy if they even mentioned it in passing! Even Rush Limbaugh gave it more attention!
June 10, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
absolutely!!!
We're still waiting for YOUR big, in depth piece on the historic nature of Barack Obama's primary win, Greg, and his becoming the first African American Presidential candidate of either party in our nation's history.
YOU never once 'celebrates" this feat; never wrote about the meaning of it to this country and the world at large.
I mean, the world is in AWE right now.
Where is it?
how many posts were made on the concession speech? 5 or 6, are we including this one, where other journalist are called out for not praising Clinton's couple of days of good work. Give credit where it is due. But jeez.
On the historic clinching of the nomination, how many posts? 1, maybe 2. I tried to go back and look, but I find the archives too user-unfriendly.
June 10, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would is be a little self-congratulatory for the people on record as practically begging Hillary not to exercise the nuclear option, and to stop tearing apart the party for her own minuscule chance of winning to now congratulate her for listening to them?
Should Olberman do a special comment on how, essentially, he was right, and isn't it great that Hillary, backed into a corner with nowhere to turn, is doing what he thought she should do for a long time. (be gracious, concede, stop attacking)
Basically I agree with the collective conscious that this post was rather frustrating.
I mean, while you're in the process of breaking the news (that she is, it seems, according to this report, now really doing what we hoped she would), how can you already expect there to be a parade in place?
June 10, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg,
Here are things I never expected Hillary Clinton to do during the Democratic Primary:
1. Question whether Obama could be Commander-In-Chief.
She did.
2. Compare the Democratic primary contast to the election of 2000 being stolen.
She did.
3. Leave any doubt in voters' minds about whether Obama was a muslim ("as far as I know").
She did.
4. Say we must obey rules until the results are in. And then try to change those said rules.
She did.
5. Tell others that he "CAN'T" win the general election.
She did.
So, for these writers to have to address what you call "cartoonish expectations they set" would be completely ignoring what came before. It's not as though they pulled their predictions out of thin air, her previous actions and statements would leave quite a few people to believe she would take this all the way (and work to undermine Obama at the same time). The only thing that stopped her was her supporters who basically said either you get out or we stop supporting you publicly. That's what it took. Otherwise, if they had stayed with her, I sincerely believe these "cartoonish expectations" could have EASILY been carried out by Hillary Clinton.
She did a great thing on Saturday, but part of the reason she did that was because people told her: no more. Not because she necessarily wanted to quit.
June 10, 2008 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
and it would have been even greater had she not done those other things in the primary.
June 10, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen.
June 11, 2008 6:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Amen.
June 11, 2008 6:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Clintonazi feminist hag supporters" ...
Just wow. All we Obama supporters are up in arms over "bias" at TPM, and only two of us actually said something about that comment left here.
"Clintonazi feminist hag supporters".
June 10, 2008 2:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
where was that comment?
June 10, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here:
Comment
June 10, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nevermind, I found it.
June 10, 2008 2:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good call and thanks for the heads up.
June 10, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I thought the two of you handled it just fine--was there enough subtlety in the ugly comment that it needed more debate? It's not debatable. It's ugly. Point made.
Or did you want a chorus of "Yeah!" and "Amen!" to your criticism of it?
But if we're looking for debate--I prefer "crone" to "hag." For myself, I mean. And I don't believe the extremist branch of the Clinton supporters (by no means the majority) deserve the term "feminist," or they wouldn't be up at arms about the idea of Seblius being considered for VP.
June 10, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think CT Voter's point was that we Obama supporters are said to be so anti-Hillary and when we push back against this kind of shitty screed, none of them show up to join us. We just get fingers pointed at us for being negative on Clinton. But when we stop this kind of asinine language, it's missed.
And yeah, I think crone is a better term. It acknowledges age, wisdom and is respectful.
June 10, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly, movements and causes, alteast the good ones, are never about one person.
June 10, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
These comments wouldn't happen so much if there weren't so many threads about Clinton's moribund campaign. It died a week ago, yet we see more about it than about Obama's race against McCain (the main event). Let's stop cheering on the loser and maybe attitudes will improve.
June 10, 2008 2:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
CT Voter.....upthread, you made a point of saying that Hillary supporters [whom I called unhinged as they are still screeching about Obama] should be separated from columnists who get paid to write commentary. Now, you have had your buttons pushed by one commenter on a thread.
Do you see any problem with this compartmentalization you are doing?
June 10, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
My point, with respect to the "they'd have to admit they were wrong" should have been made more clearly. I wasn't referring to the people who leave comments here.
I was referring to those professionals who get paid for a living to comment on issues--like Rich, Dowd and Herbert.
As for the "compartmentalization" issue: I have tried to speak up when people use offensive and degrading language about Senator Clinton. Today was no different. What was different is that I turned around and asked the community of people who post regularly here why there was no response. And in fairness, I asked too soon. There has been a response.
My response to commenters on blogs and my response to political writers aren't really connected. Perhaps you can explain what you meant?
June 10, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I never hated her, in fact I had a mild crush in the 90's (lol). She's a dedicated, smart, classy woman. I simply believe she has no throttle setting between "win at all costs" and "quit". I disliked some of her tactics intensely. Her rabble-rousing near the end was especially short-sighted, and she may be coming to grips with the consequences now. We all may be.
That being said, I have no illusions that a Chicago politician wins with kisses and gumdrops. It's just very hard, even in retrospect, to pin down the crappy things he did (well, besides "likeable enough"). He's a natural politician, and very adept at framing a favorable narrative.
I think they both believe deeply that they are doing the right thing. One was just a little more careless about collateral damage.
June 10, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the end Greg, I am shocked, I am surprised and gratified.
We had all heard that one of the things she wanted was to have her name put up in nomination, where she would lose, but you would have the effect of a woman coming close in a delegate vote. Now, it looks like she's willing to surrender that for the sake of unified convention, which is speaks highly to her character and her loyalty to the party. (I also think that it also speaks well to her desire to be Veep, but she's doing this with no guarantees it'll happen.)
June 10, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
"wonder whether those who attacked her for months on end will have something to say about it now that she has not fulfilled the cartoonish expectations they set."
Greg - you're making matters worse by adding ANOTHER stupid remark.
By ALL accounts she was planning to fight and take it to the convention until the huge flap that followed her non-concession speech. It was made clear to her that her top supporters would not go along with tearing the party apart for her. She was essentially forced out. Understand?
She was indeed going to fulfill all our "cartoonish expectations" - until she was convinced it would harm her irreparably
within the party. I don't need to crucify her for that - but I don't need to eat your total bullshit either. This is not altruism on her part.
Praise her for doing the right thing NOW. But don't claim that means she was doing the right thing all along. This equation does not add up.
June 10, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly. By all accounts, the reason she changed her tune was when her major House supporter made a conference call with 20+ other House supporters, and her major Senate supporter made a conference call with 10+ other Senate reporters, all on Wednesday, all telling her to get her act together.
I'm glad she DID get her act together. It's a great speech. I'm glad she's following up on it. But that doesn't mean the people who feared she wouldn't do it are somehow Snidely Whiplash.
June 10, 2008 2:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Man, I really want to think the best, but this mania of Greg's for always turning the conversation to the glories of all that is Hillary is just really worse than beside the point. I think it's also wrong. When she stops doing dastardly things like she did in Florida right up to the moment when she was pretty much forced to stop, we're supposed to commend her? And not only commend her but denounce those who took her threats seriously? When she does the most obvious, minimal thing possible in retaining the delegates as her personal vassals and then makes phone calls to deliver them, under her patronage, to the Party's candidate, we're all supposed to see this as heroic and confounding all those who were repelled by her previous vile behavior?
And no mention at all of one of her possible motives: or, rather, 30 million possible motives in the debt she ran up attacking Obama when all hope of legitimate political gain for her had fled?
And, as for her having abandoned all bad behavior: she's not done yet. We're only a few days into this Era of Good Feeling. I certainly hope for the best, but it was not many hours after she thrilled a grateful nation by descanting upon the "honor" it was to be sitting beside Obama before she was shrieking "Shame on you! to the embarrassment of millions.
Greg's personal needs to worship at her shrine are no doubt none of our business. But that doesn't keep them from seeming out of place as a guiding principle in adult political discussion.
June 10, 2008 2:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I forgot another obvious motive for the phone calls: so that, when her delegates vote for the Party's nominee at the Convention -- which they would no doubt overwhelmingly do anyway -- she can claim (and you bet she would do so loudly) credit for having delivered them.
To Greg this will sound like suspiciousness against an injured woman. To me it is just estimating the present tree by its previous fruits.
June 10, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Give credit to Hillary for doing the right thing?
You know, my mom used to praise me for washing my hands after using the toilet. However, after a time she stopped. And for some reason, I never noticed.
Why are we still talking about Hillary? She lost. Obama won. Will TPM (Greg, Eric) ever get over it?
June 10, 2008 2:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!
Precisely!!!
June 10, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look, Greg - Seriously - if you want to post about someone being attacked for months on end, then I do not understand why you are ignoring Sid Blumenthal.
At least Obama's campaign and Obama's followers refrained from starting an email smear campaign against Hillary, who apparently can do no wrong. I am offended by that lack of balance.
June 10, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
To paraphrase Beavis (or was it Butthead)
HEH! ;)
June 10, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Remember when Greg Sargent pushed the "muslim garb" swiftboating of Senator Obama. Did Greg Sargent ever really apologize for that false and malicious attack on Senator Obama, and did Mr. Sargent ever reveal who fed him that hate message?
June 10, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's exactly why I prefer "crone."
June 10, 2008 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Er... that was supposed to be to Evianne....
June 10, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
;) got it.
Name really is Yvainne. I changed it for blogging. Not my legal name. My family calls me by this name.
June 10, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I and a whole lot of other Obama supporters here gave her props for her speech on Saturday.
I and a whole lot of other Obama supporters here have made a conscious effort to cut any negative talk about Clinton now that the primary is over.
But jeez oh petes on a pogo stick! If you're going to throw out inflammatory challenges like that, you're forcing people to drag up the past to point out that there was good REASON for fears about what Clinton would do. Why would you want to go there?
I have zero desire to bash Clinton from here on out. As long as she stays positive and keeps working for the good of the party, I'm fine with that and will stay positive. But don't ask me to act as though one speech erases the past six months. I can forgive, but I'm not planning on forgetting.
June 10, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly!
What I said to Otto up thread.
June 10, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bob Herbert & reams of hallucinogenic commentary?
I try to see your perspective Greg but then you make it impossible with bullshit like that. The problem with you is that you still don't see the "questionable" things she's done in the "cartoonish" light most other people who aren't Hillary koolaid club members see them. Why are you trying to distinguish between what you call questionable and cartoonish anyway? Some of her attacks/gaffes were pretty out there so why act like severe reactions weren't likely or even necessary?
The only thing I see that is hallucinogenic and cartoonish is your slant on all things critical of Hillary. Your Horse's Mouth blog still provides proof of your leanings or agenda, conscious or not.
June 10, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg,
You seem well intentioned, but if you desire party unity, which it seems you do, please stop these posts. Whatever good you do is easily undone by the vile ignorance displayed by the kool aid drinking Obama supporters. Everyone needs to move on. Obama extorted the nomination out of the superdelegates by using the threat of the African American community going ballistic if the superdelegates didn't hand Obama the nomination. Most candidates are required to earn a majority of all delegates to lay legitimate claim to the nomination, but not our friend Barack. All he needed to do was game the undemocratic caucuses and work to ensure two large swing states were excluded from the process by blocking revotes to ensure he could obtain more pledged delegates, and then have his friends in the press drive the narrative that if the superdelegates actually performed their intended function and exercised independent judgment that they would be stealing the election from him. The superdelegates had no choice but to choose Obama lest they risk upsetting the most loyal voting bloc in the Democratic Party. Now Obama will be able to extort the votes of the half of the party who have flatly rejected him by larger and larger margins as the primary unfolded because the Republicans are so evil and those voters are now stuck with him. Obama learned that Chicago style politics well, and now we are stuck with him. I am also afraid we are stuck with having to listen to his deranged and dispicable followers spread their vile posion, but there is no need for you to give them threads like this to do that.
June 10, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
classic.
June 10, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!
June 10, 2008 4:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this what you mean by "cartoonish," Greg?
June 10, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, rjpjr, thanks. You have herein neatly provided the die-hard Hillary campers' 'conspiracy screed' against Obama and our party elders......... which I referenced upthread when I was pointing out that Greg Sargent has never addressed the 'hallucinatory' stuff coming from Hillary supporters.
That that hallucinatory conspiracy stuff remains alive in all its cartoonish glory begs that it should have a whole post here at EC in order to address those inanities carried around in the heads of certain ones in our party.......to the detriment of our unity and future clarity. But, I will not hold my breath waiting for Greg to address it.
June 11, 2008 8:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Y'know Greg,
I think it's also so much in Hillary Clinton's self-interest to be this gracious to Barack Obama. As the New York Times reported this morning, her campaign is $30 million in debt. No matter what office she runs for next -- reelection, President, Governor, etc. -- if she doesn't pay off that debt, then every vendor, hotel, etc. is going to demand cash upfront everywhere as they aren't going to want to be the last in line for a campaign that went deeply into debt at the Presidential level, and could go deeply into debt in that future race.
Hillary Clinton knows who is holding the cards right now, and she isn't the one.
June 10, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
No Jimbo. She's being supergracious and angelic. How dare you question her motives!! Don't you think a professional journalist like Greg Sargent would have already considered all that for us?
June 10, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think she is calling them privately inorder to maybe gain a few bucks to pay off her debts. She gets some time with them and if they ask her "what can I do help to Hillary?"..she slips in a request for contributions...IMO
June 10, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg-
With all due respect, in this instance, you don't sound too bright or objective to make intelligent or reasonable assesment.
Good luck trying to clean up Clinton's shit- no offense. Thank you Sen.Clinton for doing the right thing- but only an dim mind will think Clinton camp didn't explore ALL options.
Face it, they wanted to see if they could take the popular vote argument to the bank and found no traction.
Anyway, bottom line- you look desperate, cheap and inadequate to use the event in the second week of June as defense to actions prior. A lot has changed in the last week, don't you think?
June 10, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I too have refrained from making negative comments about the other candidate. But Clinton fully represents about half (I say more, you say less) of the Democratic choice for nominee. Now that she has thrown her support to Obama, what has Obama done to include whatever it was that so appealed to her half the Democrats? Nothing. So you can take the "we won" attitude not to the bank but to the poorhouse. If Obama wants to win he'd better do something of substance to show inclusion of Hillary. mostly what I hear is lip service from him and his supporters. It will be a hollow nomination victory should McCain win the presidency. And should that happen you can wait another few generations before there is another black presidential candidate.
So what has Obama done for Clinton and her supporters to show "unity"?
June 10, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean in the 2 workdays since she endorsed him?
I'd say the first thing was the multiple-paragraph speech he gave praising Hillary to the moon, on the night he hit the magic number. Then I'd add how he's praised her to the moon during his speech in Virginia, as well.
What else, specifically, are you looking for from this last 48 hours? He's not announcing a VP for months yet (as is the norm). So...?
June 10, 2008 7:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
ROE V WADE is now off the table
Pro-Choice Democrats and John McCain
A Commentary By Froma Harrop
Tuesday, June 10, 2008
Hillary Clinton's blessing notwithstanding, many of the New York senator's supporters will resist the handover to Barack Obama. The sexism that permeated the recent campaign still rankles, and John McCain is far from the standard-issue Republican they instinctively vote against.
A big sticking point for wavering Democrats will be McCain’s position on reproductive rights. Clinton's backers are overwhelmingly pro-choice, and they’ll want to know this: Would McCain stock the Supreme Court with foes of Roe v. Wade? The 1973 decision guarantees a right to abortion.
The answer is unclear but probably "no." While McCain has positioned himself as "pro-life" during this campaign, his statements over the years show considerable latitude on the issue.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_froma_harrop/pro_choice_democrats_and_john_mccain
June 10, 2008 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe what McCain is saying NOW, not what he said in the past. He also was against Bush's tax cuts in the past. I'm not counting on him going back to that, either.
June 10, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg,
This is an extremely important moment in History. Why are any comments on Hillary that important at all???
What worries me is how those new McCain ads -featuring Hillary herself- will be absorbed by the many who don't follow the political news closely...
She can't undo her comments. And many of such were made after the math was clear: She wouldn't get the nomination.
Now, I hope she campaigns her heart out to convince the masses that Obama, the Democratic agenda and Democratic ticket are it!!
June 10, 2008 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
ROE V WADE is off the table as a reason not to support Mccain
Pro-Choice Democrats and John McCain
A Commentary By Froma Harrop
Tuesday, June 10, 2008
Hillary Clinton's blessing notwithstanding, many of the New York senator's supporters will resist the handover to Barack Obama. The sexism that permeated the recent campaign still rankles, and John McCain is far from the standard-issue Republican they instinctively vote against.
A big sticking point for wavering Democrats will be McCain’s position on reproductive rights. Clinton's backers are overwhelmingly pro-choice, and they’ll want to know this: Would McCain stock the Supreme Court with foes of Roe v. Wade? The 1973 decision guarantees a right to abortion.
The answer is unclear but probably "no." While McCain has positioned himself as "pro-life" during this campaign, his statements over the years show considerable latitude on the issue.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/political_commentary/commentary_by_froma_harrop/pro_choice_democrats_and_john_mccain
June 10, 2008 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
PSA: above is a trolling rant of a conflicted Democrat unwilling to work through their own petty ressentiments. Unfortunate sight to see.
June 10, 2008 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
If anyone wants to play Russian Roulette with McCain's Supreme Court pick(s) that's their right. But it doesn't make them very smart.
June 10, 2008 5:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
So I can congratulate her on her excellent concession speech and on being receptive to pressure from Rep Rangel and others in the NY delegation. But her exit wasn't her idea.
June 10, 2008 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
the post is rather naive
just because she "made nice" doesn't mean she is nice: she did what she had to do to salvage her political reputation and continue in the game
June 10, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is in Obama's interest that his campaign and supporters set about to salve any and ALL wounds in the party. That, however is not the journo's imperative.
Expectations set about Hillary's post-suspension behavior were not set by these columnists. As you refernce, Greg, her past behavior is the only legitimate way to judge her motives and set expectations. Columnists had nothing to do with it.
And as to why they have not praised her like they should, and like the Obama campaign, following its interests, has: being journalists not partisans, they want to tell the unvarnished truth as they see it, and they see it like many of us see it. With the ungracious Tuesday speech and four-day delay, she dominated the entire week, denying him an unambiguous moment of victory before being thrust into the harsh glare of the full-tilt general campaign. Granted, I'm looking at it from Obama's perspective, but his interests are now the party's interests. There will not be another opportunity like the one that was justlost to have the spotlight on him alone until the convention.
That's why they haven't rushed to her defense. She has you and Gene R. for that.
June 10, 2008 5:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is in Obama's interest that his campaign and supporters set about to salve any and ALL wounds in the party. That, however is not the journo's imperative.
Expectations set about Hillary's post-suspension behavior were not set by these columnists. As you refernce, Greg, her past behavior is the only legitimate way to judge her motives and set expectations. Columnists had nothing to do with it.
And as to why they have not praised her like they should, and like the Obama campaign, following its interests, has: being journalists not partisans, they want to tell the unvarnished truth as they see it, and they see it like many of us see it. With the ungracious Tuesday speech and four-day delay, she dominated the entire week, denying him an unambiguous moment of victory before being thrust into the harsh glare of the full-tilt general campaign. Granted, I'm looking at it from Obama's perspective, but his interests are now the party's interests. There will not be another opportunity like the one that was justlost to have the spotlight on him alone until the convention.
That's why they haven't rushed to her defense. She has you and Gene R. for that.
June 10, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
HILLARY STOP THAT!!
June 10, 2008 11:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
When forced into a corner, with most of her major supporters threatening to disavow her, and political immolation staring her in the face, she did, in fact, stand down and endorse her opponent. I guess she deserves some sort of kudos for displaying such rudimentary tactical good sense; certainly at moments in the campaign it seemed possible that she wouldn't.
So, yeah; now that she's been shown beyond a shadow of a doubt that getting behind Obama is good for her career, she's getting behind Obama. If you want to see that as a sign of redemption/vindication that's fine, but don't be surprised if others are a bit more skeptical.
June 10, 2008 11:43 PM | Reply | Permalink