The Last Hurrah.
The End of the Clinton Era.
Adios.
You went out a loser.
Don't count on it. She will be back in 4 years to restore the party after your love boy gets his ass and yours wiped out in this November! LOL
Call the waaaambulance, we've got a whiner!
"Deranged narcissist." -- Jeffrey Tubin, CNN.
I couldn't believe when he said that. Although it was right on. The rest of the CNN team seemed pretty stunned by her speech as well--they couldn't believe she was that classless.
Maybe I am too used to Hill-talk, but that was the classiest speech I have ever seen Hillary give.
Honestly it is the only time this entire primary season that I was able watch the entire speech.
Even so, I think she really missed her opportunity tonight to be a unifying force in this party. I understand the rationalization for not conceding - that when she concedes she is giving up her leverage - but there is no greater leverage than power and by being gracious tonight she could have increased her power.
The party is clearly moving on with or without her and she needs to be a part of it; for both her own self-interests and for the sake of the party. Had she congratulated Obama tonight becoming the Dem nominee and made this night about the strength of our party rather than about her she would have, ironically, increased her standing in the party, as a public figure, and the potential to join the Obama administration.
He did not seriously say that!
He did! I heard it too.
Yes he did. And you could audible hear others on the panel gasp and do a double take.
Wow. He had more champagne than I.
Priceless! Someone had had enough with the B.S.
And Toobin was actually one of her supporters. So this is not some crazy Hillary-hater.
Who switched to Obama like David Gergen after seeing a bunch of stupid moves from her.
Go to HillaryClinton.com and share your thoughts! She wanted to say give me money but couldn't do it, so she thought that sharing your thoughts is a good way of asking people to go to her website.
But then she was toasted for asking people to go to her website and write in her support!
The rest of the panel looked at him like "Dude! We are all thinking it, but we can't say that can we??"
Couldn't have said it better myself. And nice to see someone was willing to say out loud what most people were probably thinking.
She still wants to raise some money selling her new TShirt, at least she has good marketing advisers.
(I know I posted this before but it's at the end of the thread and no one is going to see it and I still think it's a good joke)
Survey USA MO Obama (D) 45%, McCain (R) 43%
This is BEFORE the bump that will be coming for Obama. Bless Sen Clair McCaskill!
I have said this before, I have the female equivalent of a man-crush on Claire for all of her support for Obama. Smart classy lady.
Hillary Clinton just dropped a massive swirly on the most historic night in African American political history. What a disgrace...
Correction. The most historic night in American political history.
What do you say to this, really? It's so unbelievably selfish and immature.
no post on obama's speech. odd, that.
According to Hillary, everyone in the media is too busy dancing with joy.
I'm not particularly surprised. Greg pretty much announced we were having a Hillary party when the evening began.
So what is Eric's excuse?
I wasn't aware there was any difference.
He's a fucking Clinton supporter.
He's a fucking Clinton supporter.
He's a fucking Clinton supporter.
Eric is just as classless as Hillary was in her speech tonight.
Can we vote him off TPM Election Central?
Exactly. Where's the acknowledgement of the first African-American nominee? Eric can be such a tool sometimes.
Heh. I just watched McCain's speech, and it had bobdole written ALL over it.
This guy is SO gonna get pwn3d by Obama.
As for Hillary's speech...yawn. Who cares if she concedes at this point; she's not the nominee. I was watching the faces of people in Obama's crowd as he praised her. Very few smiles and lots of people holding their hands at their sides at applause lines. Like I said, she's not going to be the VP pick.
The scuttlebutt is she does not want it, and he dudn't wanna ask her.
++terrible idea
Bring garlic to any "meeting"...
Ok, Dan Abram's jazz band I like.
Yes, to the Jazz band!!! One of the best editions to this season's political coverage along with CNN's super-map.
One of the talking heads tonight was saying that Hillary doesn't want the VP but wants to be asked and then she'll turn it down -- how stupid does she think Obama is? Start is VP choice out behind by having everyone think s/he is his second choice? No, not a good idea
He can be gracious and say that Hillary indicated that she doesn't want to be VP and that it too bad because he certainly would have considered her very strongly...blah, blah, blah.
I'd be OK with Secretary of DHHS or sponsor of the universal healthcare bill in the Senate.
What???? Sponsor of a universal healthcare bill? Are you kidding me. So we go for another 20 years without universal healthcare. No thank you. I say how about dog catcher. That would keep her occupied and would correspond to her level of experience.
Good thing nobody else gave any speeches tonight that TPM hasn't even opened a thread for much less posted or anything.
WTF?!? Was his posted at the back of TPM?
Disgraceful.
That one guy is ALWAYS behind her....
Ok, so she didn't have to concede tonight. But did she have to not concede in such a divisive way?
She served red meat to her supporters to feed their sense of grievance: the phony popular-vote math, the swing-state argument, the count-every-vote nonsense. Is it any wonder they started chanting "Denver! Denver!"?
9:03 pm PDT, no speech from the presumptive nominee on TPM. Their front page is, of course, all about Sen Lostit.
Sen Obama will net 5,000+ popular votes. But nothing newsworthy about Sen Obama. No need to post a speech.
I'm almost 100% certain that the primary reason for her staying in the race at this point is so she can recoup the money that she loaned her campaign. For weeks, she's used her "victory" speeches to ask for money, and now, even though her campaign has ended, she's still asking for donations.
Once she gets her millions back, she's out. Until then we just have to hope that her supporters remain as tenacious with donations as they are on the blogs...
According to Carl Bernstein, on CNN, Hillary planned an even more aggressive, take no prisoners speech, but the low voter turnout in PR, spoiled her plans.
She was going to claim that she was ahead by hundreds of thousands of popular votes and that she should be the nominee.
Thank you PR!
Unfucking believable.
You won't make a decision? Don't worry the Democratic Party has taken care of that for you.
If Obama takes on HIllBillary he should be declared insane.
For a newcomer, you are incredibly astute!
Here. Have some champagne!
Her speech was a complete disgrace. I was appalled with about three dozen "P"s.
relax.. theyll post Sen Obama's speech too.. theres always a delay while the encoded it and such.. mccains first, clintons second, his third.. since thats the order it happened in real life and it takes time to do this.
No excuse for not having a thread while it was being given (sans video obviously).
7 minutes elapsed between the Sen McCain and Sen Clinton speech postings. It has been 37 minutes since. Obama stopped speaking before this alleged editing was done.
Where's the speech?
This alleged speech is all over the internet and TPM still does not have it.
Oh what a world and to think I came here to read fair and balanced - pfffttt..
They finally posted just now.
Damn Maddow rocks.
What did she say?
Just cutting through it all, saying it like it is, actually listening to what others say and countering it with slid, lucid argument.
She actually loves the debate on the merits, and analysis based on the facts and actually assessing the lay of the land and the data points that are staring people in the face... all while being passionate and funny.
I'd offer to father her children, but this is complicated on a number of fronts.
Still no video.
Sen Obama has phoned Sen Clinton twice tonight.
No answer.
Maddow: She's waiting until 3am!
" ... but this is complicated on a number of fronts."
Okay.
We're even on the cleaning bills.
Clinton's getting pwned by the Larry King panel.
Fuck.. I switched over to MSNBC from CNN right as suspender-man came on.
Just got back from the Obama rally. Wow. just... wow.
wow.
C'mon! Spill it!
I saw it on my little TV, and I was all like wow, too.
This is it.
I Have never seen so many people in a single location for a victory Rally for anything!!!They tell me there were over 15K that could not get in.
All I can say is AWESOME!!!!!
It always seems to come down to this, one presidential candidate represents the best of America, the other the worst. Usually it's a Republican who plays on people's ignorance and asks them to vote in their own self interest, disregarding what's best for the country.
Tonight, a losing Democrat played that role, while another Democrat asked us to come together as a nation. Not for himself, but for the good of the country.
Keep the faith, everyone.
"Classless" indeed!! David Gergen, about as fair a commentator as they come, hit it on the head when he compared Hillary's call for supporters to tell her what to do with Nixon's "Checkers" speech. The woman is a disgrace to the feminine cause she pretends to champion. I keep thinking the Clintons can't sink any lower, and they keep surprising me. Effing amazing!!
Gee, do you think Clinton might offer Obama the vice presidency?
What a horrid individual she is.
Well, Obama has the speech up on his site. Maybe donate a bit while you are there.
I could have donated three times and haggled for a hawg on E-Bay in the time TPM has taken to "edit" the Obama speech video!
Dude!
No need to go to eBay.
I've got HAWGS!!!!!!!
Pork! The other white meat!!!!!
I insist they be delivered in a plain brown paper with no return address. What's that? Well, that's just nunna yer business what I am gonna do with it!
Expect delivery tomorrow.
UPS.
You will not be boared.
oh oh ow ow, ok now you're you're just throwing rocks!
Damned that was baaaaaaaaaad....boared...
I thought Republicans were the other white meat.
Of course, if as a result of Hillary's intransigence, McCain wins and he has the chance to appoint more right wing judges to the supreme court, Hillary won't be there to pick up the pieces for women who are let down, by regressive rulings.
Lanny Davis is still not shutting up.
Awwwwwwfffffffffffucccccccccckkkkkkkkk!
Sadly, no one in that campaign ever shuts up...
Barack Obama picking BILLARY Clinton as vice president will be like me picking a spitting Cobra as a room mate!
David Gergen, about as fair a commentator as they come, hit it on the head when he compared Hillary's call for supporters to tell her what to do with Nixon's "Checkers" speech.
Quite frankly, that is more ignominious a reference than Tubin's "deranged narcissist" comment. Unless, of course, you couple Tubin's comment with film at 11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWaL1XnUPN0
It's absolutely ridiculous TPM Election Central doesn't have Obama's speech up.
Completely. It's been an hour since Sen Clinton's speech was posted.
So TPM and Election Central have to post the Hillary Speech??
Dudes - Hillary has lost - stop being so disrespectful to the Democratic Nominee.
If Clinton conceded graciously tonight, I was all set to embrace her and even accept her as our VP.
No more.
I don't want her anywhere near the ticket. And I now despise her on a level equal to that of Bush and McCain.
Dude, it took you long enough. I crossed that bridge with the race baiting and bullsh*t before new hampshire. I can't wait until the clintons are in the dustbin of history. Total trailer trash.
THIS
IS
A
HISTORIC
NIGHT
FOR
U.S.A.!!!!
FOR
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!1!1!!!11
Too much champagne?!?!?!
Tucker Carlson... no bow tie, but still the most rancid goiter on television.
Didya notice that he gave up that bowtie very shortly after being mocked for it by Jon Stewart? A few weeks after the Jon Stewart Crossfire smackdown, when Crossfire was cancelled, was the last time he was ever seen in a bowtie.
Yep.
And Jon Stewart pwned him and called it as it is "you're a dick"
Isn't Hillary, Livia incarnate? Both Clintons have that certain, something, deranged by their lust for power.
She is a piece of work but no Livia.
Oh it really was.
Okay, I am usually among the first to defend the TPM folks but this is ridiculously hacked reporting. Biggest friggin political event to happen to this country in quite some time and nothing from TPM. No 'Obama Clinches' post, no Obama speech post nada. May need to move over to Kos.
Fuck, even Taylor Marsh has Obama's clinching the nomination at the top of her page and a link to an article with video.
He just doesn't care about the historic moment of having the FIRST Democratic African-American nominee. It's not even that important to Eric or to the TPM folks.
Shit, it's the day the nomination is decided. Even if it was the most boring white dude ever - this is supposed to be ELECTION CENTRAL! How do you just pretend it didn't happen?
Will someone please stuff a sock in Lanny Davis.
It really doesn't matter which orifice, but the mouth is preferred.
Basically, f*ck the clintons. What a bunch of trailer trash garbage. She lost. She dissed the democratic nominee, a history making figure. F*ck them. Then he is trying to call her for two hours to set up a meet and she says she'll let him know? If I were obama, I wouldn't meet with or talk with the a**holes for weeks. She has no power and lost. She has no control over her voters like she claims. At this point, I would say f*ck it and try to win them over over the next 5 months. He doesn't need the clintons and it really isn't worth the drama. Cut it loose now. That's what you have to do with narcissists, just cut them off. You can't reason with them or negotiate with them, it's a waste of time. Just ignore them and eventually they dry up and blow away in the wind. Basically, f*ck them.
Exactly - no more contacts. Freeze them out. He's won, he doesn't need her blessing.
It was really really loud. I coundn't even hear him declare victory after "I can stand before you and say" because everyone went nuts. I had to read it off the big screen in the middle! And that happened a lot through out his speech. It was like people would go into a lul for a minute, and then realize, 'oh wow, I am here! On this night!' It certainly felt historic.
Oops, this was supposed to be for Marioth way back there. I am describing being at the Excel center tonight.
On another note, where's obama's speech? Comeon, the clintons lost gregg and its over. Why even post her speech and then not post obama's? Absurd.
I am fairly certain that Hillary had planned to declare victory tonight based on 'her version of the count of the popular vote'. As she exaggerates it, it gets bigger and bigger. She was prepared to fight all the way until the push by the Obama camp to declare started moving and some of her close friends gave her some pause...
Now there has been some talk of bullying and forcing Senator Obama to accept her as a VP but I say we rage against that machine.
She still may decide to fight it out unless the superdelegates in massive numbers (which would probably mean more of hers defecting) endorse Senator Obama and let her know there's no going back.
there has been some talk of bullying and forcing Senator Obama to accept her as a VP but I say we rage against that machine.
'Zactly. It's a transparent blackmail attempt: "Make me VP, or I'll
tell my minions to sit out the election."
It's also a pathetic bluff. At most, her fanatical minions amount to
a few tens of thousands of wackos. The vast majority of her votes came from low-information casual observers.
Let the wackos sit it out! Barack can't afford to pollute the ticket
with someone who voted (and beat the drums!) for war, mocked his position on negotiating with the bad guys, and tried to out-Dick TheDick on Iranian obliteration.
There are MANY eligible VP candidates who could bring in more votes than Shrillary -- without energizing the Repug base.
...Barack is no dummy,
LK
1:05am EDT TPM posts Obama's speech!
In honor of it's venue, I dub this "The Hillary Clinton Bunker Speech".
I have to say that I'm appalled by Hillary's speech. I thought she would finally confront reality and congratulate Obama for clinching the nomination. Boy, was I wrong! Let's see...
1. Didn't acknowledge that Obama won. Check.
2. Gave no sign that she was going to suspend her campaign. Check.
3. Undermined Obama's victory by repeatedly doling out the trope that she was the popular vote winner. Check.
4. Continued to argue that she would be the stronger candidate against McCain. Check.
5. Signaled that she was willing to go all the way to Denver. Check.
Did I miss anything?
I understand that this was a close election, and I empathize with those who strongly support Clinton, but at the end of the race there's a winner. And that winner's Obama.
After her speech, I'll admit I was scratching my head. I sniffed my cocktail to make sure no one had spiked it with some reality reducing substance. Nope. It was just two parts Seagrams and one part Sprite. What puzzled me was this-- just what in the hell was she campaigning for? Some of my friends said 2012--or 2016 if Obama wins. Others said for VP. The only thing that seems reasonable is that she is angling for VP, but does one do that by threatening to create a coalition government? I suppose so if you are committing a coup d'etat.
In the final analysis, I'm left colder than ever about the so-called "dream ticket", which I suppose populates the dreams of those consigned to purgatory--at least, insofar as her strong-arming tactics suggest. But I'll sleep on it, and with the fog of alcohol and anger receding, I'll reassess my opinion on the matter.
I agree with everything you wrote.
To me, it seemed that she had her speechwriters work up a victory speech and with a few minor word changes here or there, that's what she delivered. They really do live in an alternate universe.
I was particularly appalled that she repeated the fallacy that she "won" the popular vote, even after losing the nomination, even after it doesn't matter anymore.
Which shows either: 1) just how pathological their lying is; 2) that they have completely deluded themselves; or 3) their contempt for our intelligence knows no bounds.
I know Obama supporters are supposed to be magnanimous in victory, but it's hard to tolerate the continued spreading of bullshit.
Yes, she should have the time she needs to leave on her own terms. But she should stop the bullshit.
And no nightmare ticket. She spent too many years of her life playing second-fiddle to Bill. No way she'll ever again play second-fiddle to anyone else.
Remarkable--what Jeff Toobin described as "deranged narcissism".
This speech--its very essence--was predicted on May 23rd:
Head of State: The Reasons That Hillary Should Not Be Vice President
Regarding Hillary Clinton as Barack Obama's running mate:
Originally, this seemed to be a potentially plausible choice--and if presented in the following way, could turn her divisive campaign into a potential coup as a VP candidate. The thinking was the following:
Hillary has run a divisive campaign. Now, just as the nation should mend its divisions in favor a greater unity that would serve the greater needs of our country, so now they would explicitly put these divisions behind them, in the interests of the unity that this nation, after a bitter and divisive Administration, is so in need of. This would serve as a powerful and vibrant example of the very ability to unify that Obama both offers and represents.
However, this would require a candidate that was willing to take such a position of relative shared selflessness in the interests of a greater good. While the Vice Presidency certainly offers its honors (now far beyond the "warm pitcher" of John Vance Garner's famous phrase) and positioning for later Presidential aspirations, such a plan would require the ability to think in terms of a shared effort based on the betterment of the nation, rather than in more grasping, combative and singular terms.
The Clinton camp's behavior over this past week has made such a positive scenario clearly untenable, showcasing the same characteristics that have signified her campaign throughout its long, chaotic march--its contradictions of previous statements when such changes have a slight possibility of adding a week or two of vitality, its sudden and implausible use of populist guises and specious historical parallels for transparently opportunistic purposes, its near-hallucinogenic transmogrifications of personality and central bases for further continuation,
and the central campaign tendency to place personal attainment over virtually all values that lay in its path.
These characteristics--self over nation, positioning over a consistent presentation of position, values and even self, the willingness to put personal viability over the need to transcend and transform the vast wreckage of state and international relations that remains at this critical time--are as present now, at a moment when wisdom rather than a remorseless, obdurate desperation could fill this gap, as they have been throughout much of the campaign. They would continue to make themselves present during a Clinton campaign for vice president, complicating, diminishing and often distracting from, in trivial internecine battles, the message of unity and change.
Perhaps Clinton could adopt a more unifying, integrated and less grasping position on the VP subject. However, thus far, the actions of the Clinton camp have made it clear: It's time to clean the slate. Hillary Clinton should not be the Vice Presidential candidate.
I think it's interesting that she refers to there being an opportunity on her site to offer comments on whether she should stay in the race or not.. I wanted to vote 'not', went to the site, the pop-up box is framed as a message of support to stay in the race! There is a comments box, but there's no guarantee that they'll read that, vs. just counting the number of comments and saying they're all in favor of her staying. One more disappointing little episode...
Eh. I watched the first few minutes, and it looked like she was being gracious and complimenting Obama quite a lot.
She can't be all down and defeated in front of a crowd of supporters like that, can she?
Granted, I didn't have the patience to watch the whole thing, but it seemed off to a good start.
Never mind.
I went back and watched more. Not so great.
The longer Clinton holds out in conceding, the more difficult it will be for her to do so. And the longer she waits, the more damage she does to her reputation.
It's very much like the issue of the Iraq war. The longer Clinton held onto her vote of support for the invasion, the more difficult it became for her to say that she was wrong.
Ultimately Iraq would be her undoing in the primary, and her failure to concede graciously will bring lasting damage to her within the Democratic party.
The Last Hurrah.
The End of the Clinton Era.
Adios.
You went out a loser.
June 3, 2008 11:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't count on it. She will be back in 4 years to restore the party after your love boy gets his ass and yours wiped out in this November! LOL
June 5, 2008 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
Call the waaaambulance, we've got a whiner!
June 7, 2008 11:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Deranged narcissist." -- Jeffrey Tubin, CNN.
June 3, 2008 11:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I couldn't believe when he said that. Although it was right on. The rest of the CNN team seemed pretty stunned by her speech as well--they couldn't believe she was that classless.
June 3, 2008 11:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe I am too used to Hill-talk, but that was the classiest speech I have ever seen Hillary give.
June 4, 2008 12:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Honestly it is the only time this entire primary season that I was able watch the entire speech.
Even so, I think she really missed her opportunity tonight to be a unifying force in this party. I understand the rationalization for not conceding - that when she concedes she is giving up her leverage - but there is no greater leverage than power and by being gracious tonight she could have increased her power.
The party is clearly moving on with or without her and she needs to be a part of it; for both her own self-interests and for the sake of the party. Had she congratulated Obama tonight becoming the Dem nominee and made this night about the strength of our party rather than about her she would have, ironically, increased her standing in the party, as a public figure, and the potential to join the Obama administration.
June 4, 2008 1:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
He did not seriously say that!
June 4, 2008 12:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
He did! I heard it too.
June 4, 2008 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes he did. And you could audible hear others on the panel gasp and do a double take.
June 4, 2008 12:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. He had more champagne than I.
June 4, 2008 12:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Priceless! Someone had had enough with the B.S.
June 4, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
And Toobin was actually one of her supporters. So this is not some crazy Hillary-hater.
June 4, 2008 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Who switched to Obama like David Gergen after seeing a bunch of stupid moves from her.
Go to HillaryClinton.com and share your thoughts! She wanted to say give me money but couldn't do it, so she thought that sharing your thoughts is a good way of asking people to go to her website.
But then she was toasted for asking people to go to her website and write in her support!
June 4, 2008 1:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
The rest of the panel looked at him like "Dude! We are all thinking it, but we can't say that can we??"
June 4, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Couldn't have said it better myself. And nice to see someone was willing to say out loud what most people were probably thinking.
June 4, 2008 9:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
She still wants to raise some money selling her new TShirt, at least she has good marketing advisers.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/3484/hctshirtskw8.jpg
(I know I posted this before but it's at the end of the thread and no one is going to see it and I still think it's a good joke)
June 3, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Survey USA MO Obama (D) 45%, McCain (R) 43%
This is BEFORE the bump that will be coming for Obama. Bless Sen Clair McCaskill!
June 3, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have said this before, I have the female equivalent of a man-crush on Claire for all of her support for Obama. Smart classy lady.
June 4, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary Clinton just dropped a massive swirly on the most historic night in African American political history. What a disgrace...
June 3, 2008 11:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Correction. The most historic night in American political history.
June 4, 2008 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
What do you say to this, really? It's so unbelievably selfish and immature.
June 3, 2008 11:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
no post on obama's speech. odd, that.
June 3, 2008 11:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to Hillary, everyone in the media is too busy dancing with joy.
June 3, 2008 11:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not particularly surprised. Greg pretty much announced we were having a Hillary party when the evening began.
June 4, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
So what is Eric's excuse?
June 4, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
I wasn't aware there was any difference.
June 4, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
He's a fucking Clinton supporter.
June 4, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
He's a fucking Clinton supporter.
June 4, 2008 12:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
He's a fucking Clinton supporter.
June 4, 2008 12:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Eric is just as classless as Hillary was in her speech tonight.
Can we vote him off TPM Election Central?
June 4, 2008 12:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly. Where's the acknowledgement of the first African-American nominee? Eric can be such a tool sometimes.
June 4, 2008 12:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
Heh. I just watched McCain's speech, and it had bobdole written ALL over it.
This guy is SO gonna get pwn3d by Obama.
As for Hillary's speech...yawn. Who cares if she concedes at this point; she's not the nominee. I was watching the faces of people in Obama's crowd as he praised her. Very few smiles and lots of people holding their hands at their sides at applause lines. Like I said, she's not going to be the VP pick.
June 3, 2008 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
The scuttlebutt is she does not want it, and he dudn't wanna ask her.
++terrible idea
Bring garlic to any "meeting"...
Ok, Dan Abram's jazz band I like.
June 4, 2008 12:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, to the Jazz band!!! One of the best editions to this season's political coverage along with CNN's super-map.
One of the talking heads tonight was saying that Hillary doesn't want the VP but wants to be asked and then she'll turn it down -- how stupid does she think Obama is? Start is VP choice out behind by having everyone think s/he is his second choice? No, not a good idea
He can be gracious and say that Hillary indicated that she doesn't want to be VP and that it too bad because he certainly would have considered her very strongly...blah, blah, blah.
I'd be OK with Secretary of DHHS or sponsor of the universal healthcare bill in the Senate.
June 4, 2008 1:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
What???? Sponsor of a universal healthcare bill? Are you kidding me. So we go for another 20 years without universal healthcare. No thank you. I say how about dog catcher. That would keep her occupied and would correspond to her level of experience.
June 4, 2008 2:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good thing nobody else gave any speeches tonight that TPM hasn't even opened a thread for much less posted or anything.
June 4, 2008 12:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
WTF?!? Was his posted at the back of TPM?
Disgraceful.
June 4, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
That one guy is ALWAYS behind her....
June 4, 2008 12:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ok, so she didn't have to concede tonight. But did she have to not concede in such a divisive way?
She served red meat to her supporters to feed their sense of grievance: the phony popular-vote math, the swing-state argument, the count-every-vote nonsense. Is it any wonder they started chanting "Denver! Denver!"?
June 4, 2008 12:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
9:03 pm PDT, no speech from the presumptive nominee on TPM. Their front page is, of course, all about Sen Lostit.
June 4, 2008 12:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sen Obama will net 5,000+ popular votes. But nothing newsworthy about Sen Obama. No need to post a speech.
June 4, 2008 12:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm almost 100% certain that the primary reason for her staying in the race at this point is so she can recoup the money that she loaned her campaign. For weeks, she's used her "victory" speeches to ask for money, and now, even though her campaign has ended, she's still asking for donations.
Once she gets her millions back, she's out. Until then we just have to hope that her supporters remain as tenacious with donations as they are on the blogs...
June 4, 2008 12:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
According to Carl Bernstein, on CNN, Hillary planned an even more aggressive, take no prisoners speech, but the low voter turnout in PR, spoiled her plans.
She was going to claim that she was ahead by hundreds of thousands of popular votes and that she should be the nominee.
Thank you PR!
June 4, 2008 12:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unfucking believable.
You won't make a decision? Don't worry the Democratic Party has taken care of that for you.
If Obama takes on HIllBillary he should be declared insane.
June 4, 2008 12:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
For a newcomer, you are incredibly astute!
Here. Have some champagne!
June 4, 2008 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Her speech was a complete disgrace. I was appalled with about three dozen "P"s.
June 4, 2008 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
relax.. theyll post Sen Obama's speech too.. theres always a delay while the encoded it and such.. mccains first, clintons second, his third.. since thats the order it happened in real life and it takes time to do this.
June 4, 2008 12:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
No excuse for not having a thread while it was being given (sans video obviously).
June 4, 2008 12:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
7 minutes elapsed between the Sen McCain and Sen Clinton speech postings. It has been 37 minutes since. Obama stopped speaking before this alleged editing was done.
Where's the speech?
June 4, 2008 12:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
This alleged speech is all over the internet and TPM still does not have it.
Oh what a world and to think I came here to read fair and balanced - pfffttt..
June 4, 2008 1:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
They finally posted just now.
June 4, 2008 1:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Damn Maddow rocks.
June 4, 2008 12:15 AM | Reply | Permalink
What did she say?
June 4, 2008 12:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just cutting through it all, saying it like it is, actually listening to what others say and countering it with slid, lucid argument.
She actually loves the debate on the merits, and analysis based on the facts and actually assessing the lay of the land and the data points that are staring people in the face... all while being passionate and funny.
June 4, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'd offer to father her children, but this is complicated on a number of fronts.
Still no video.
Sen Obama has phoned Sen Clinton twice tonight.
No answer.
Maddow: She's waiting until 3am!
June 4, 2008 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Okay.
We're even on the cleaning bills.
June 4, 2008 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton's getting pwned by the Larry King panel.
June 4, 2008 12:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fuck.. I switched over to MSNBC from CNN right as suspender-man came on.
June 4, 2008 12:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just got back from the Obama rally. Wow. just... wow.
wow.
June 4, 2008 12:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
C'mon! Spill it!
June 4, 2008 12:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
I saw it on my little TV, and I was all like wow, too.
This is it.
June 4, 2008 12:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
I Have never seen so many people in a single location for a victory Rally for anything!!!They tell me there were over 15K that could not get in.
All I can say is AWESOME!!!!!
June 4, 2008 2:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
It always seems to come down to this, one presidential candidate represents the best of America, the other the worst. Usually it's a Republican who plays on people's ignorance and asks them to vote in their own self interest, disregarding what's best for the country.
Tonight, a losing Democrat played that role, while another Democrat asked us to come together as a nation. Not for himself, but for the good of the country.
Keep the faith, everyone.
June 4, 2008 12:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
"Classless" indeed!! David Gergen, about as fair a commentator as they come, hit it on the head when he compared Hillary's call for supporters to tell her what to do with Nixon's "Checkers" speech. The woman is a disgrace to the feminine cause she pretends to champion. I keep thinking the Clintons can't sink any lower, and they keep surprising me. Effing amazing!!
June 4, 2008 12:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
Gee, do you think Clinton might offer Obama the vice presidency?
What a horrid individual she is.
June 4, 2008 12:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, Obama has the speech up on his site. Maybe donate a bit while you are there.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/june3rd
Now that wasn't so hard.
June 4, 2008 12:34 AM | Reply | Permalink
I could have donated three times and haggled for a hawg on E-Bay in the time TPM has taken to "edit" the Obama speech video!
June 4, 2008 12:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dude!
No need to go to eBay.
I've got HAWGS!!!!!!!
Pork! The other white meat!!!!!
June 4, 2008 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
I insist they be delivered in a plain brown paper with no return address. What's that? Well, that's just nunna yer business what I am gonna do with it!
June 4, 2008 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Expect delivery tomorrow.
UPS.
You will not be boared.
June 4, 2008 12:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
oh oh ow ow, ok now you're you're just throwing rocks!
Damned that was baaaaaaaaaad....boared...
June 4, 2008 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I thought Republicans were the other white meat.
June 4, 2008 1:01 AM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, if as a result of Hillary's intransigence, McCain wins and he has the chance to appoint more right wing judges to the supreme court, Hillary won't be there to pick up the pieces for women who are let down, by regressive rulings.
June 4, 2008 12:35 AM | Reply | Permalink
Lanny Davis is still not shutting up.
Awwwwwwfffffffffffucccccccccckkkkkkkkk!
June 4, 2008 12:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
Sadly, no one in that campaign ever shuts up...
June 4, 2008 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Barack Obama picking BILLARY Clinton as vice president will be like me picking a spitting Cobra as a room mate!
June 4, 2008 12:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Quite frankly, that is more ignominious a reference than Tubin's "deranged narcissist" comment. Unless, of course, you couple Tubin's comment with film at 11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWaL1XnUPN0
June 4, 2008 12:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's absolutely ridiculous TPM Election Central doesn't have Obama's speech up.
June 4, 2008 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Completely. It's been an hour since Sen Clinton's speech was posted.
June 4, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
So TPM and Election Central have to post the Hillary Speech??
Dudes - Hillary has lost - stop being so disrespectful to the Democratic Nominee.
June 4, 2008 12:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
If Clinton conceded graciously tonight, I was all set to embrace her and even accept her as our VP.
No more.
I don't want her anywhere near the ticket. And I now despise her on a level equal to that of Bush and McCain.
June 4, 2008 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, it took you long enough. I crossed that bridge with the race baiting and bullsh*t before new hampshire. I can't wait until the clintons are in the dustbin of history. Total trailer trash.
June 4, 2008 1:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
THIS
June 4, 2008 12:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
IS
June 4, 2008 12:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
A
June 4, 2008 12:42 AM | Reply | Permalink
HISTORIC
June 4, 2008 12:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
NIGHT
June 4, 2008 12:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
FOR
June 4, 2008 12:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
U.S.A.!!!!
June 4, 2008 9:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
FOR
June 4, 2008 12:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!1!1!!!11
June 4, 2008 12:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Too much champagne?!?!?!
June 4, 2008 12:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Tucker Carlson... no bow tie, but still the most rancid goiter on television.
June 4, 2008 12:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Didya notice that he gave up that bowtie very shortly after being mocked for it by Jon Stewart? A few weeks after the Jon Stewart Crossfire smackdown, when Crossfire was cancelled, was the last time he was ever seen in a bowtie.
June 4, 2008 1:03 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yep.
And Jon Stewart pwned him and called it as it is "you're a dick"
June 4, 2008 1:13 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary addresses the troops circa, 8 AD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsUThgpC_rg&feature=related
June 4, 2008 12:53 AM | Reply | Permalink
I love I, Claudius. Best television ever.
June 4, 2008 12:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
Me too.
Isn't Hillary, Livia incarnate? Both Clintons have that certain, something, deranged by their lust for power.
June 4, 2008 1:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
She is a piece of work but no Livia.
June 4, 2008 1:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh it really was.
June 4, 2008 1:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
Okay, I am usually among the first to defend the TPM folks but this is ridiculously hacked reporting. Biggest friggin political event to happen to this country in quite some time and nothing from TPM. No 'Obama Clinches' post, no Obama speech post nada. May need to move over to Kos.
June 4, 2008 12:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
Fuck, even Taylor Marsh has Obama's clinching the nomination at the top of her page and a link to an article with video.
June 4, 2008 12:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
He just doesn't care about the historic moment of having the FIRST Democratic African-American nominee. It's not even that important to Eric or to the TPM folks.
June 4, 2008 1:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Shit, it's the day the nomination is decided. Even if it was the most boring white dude ever - this is supposed to be ELECTION CENTRAL! How do you just pretend it didn't happen?
June 4, 2008 1:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
Will someone please stuff a sock in Lanny Davis.
It really doesn't matter which orifice, but the mouth is preferred.
June 4, 2008 12:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Basically, f*ck the clintons. What a bunch of trailer trash garbage. She lost. She dissed the democratic nominee, a history making figure. F*ck them. Then he is trying to call her for two hours to set up a meet and she says she'll let him know? If I were obama, I wouldn't meet with or talk with the a**holes for weeks. She has no power and lost. She has no control over her voters like she claims. At this point, I would say f*ck it and try to win them over over the next 5 months. He doesn't need the clintons and it really isn't worth the drama. Cut it loose now. That's what you have to do with narcissists, just cut them off. You can't reason with them or negotiate with them, it's a waste of time. Just ignore them and eventually they dry up and blow away in the wind. Basically, f*ck them.
June 4, 2008 1:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly - no more contacts. Freeze them out. He's won, he doesn't need her blessing.
June 4, 2008 1:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was really really loud. I coundn't even hear him declare victory after "I can stand before you and say" because everyone went nuts. I had to read it off the big screen in the middle! And that happened a lot through out his speech. It was like people would go into a lul for a minute, and then realize, 'oh wow, I am here! On this night!' It certainly felt historic.
June 4, 2008 1:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oops, this was supposed to be for Marioth way back there. I am describing being at the Excel center tonight.
June 4, 2008 1:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
On another note, where's obama's speech? Comeon, the clintons lost gregg and its over. Why even post her speech and then not post obama's? Absurd.
June 4, 2008 1:05 AM | Reply | Permalink
I am fairly certain that Hillary had planned to declare victory tonight based on 'her version of the count of the popular vote'. As she exaggerates it, it gets bigger and bigger. She was prepared to fight all the way until the push by the Obama camp to declare started moving and some of her close friends gave her some pause...
Now there has been some talk of bullying and forcing Senator Obama to accept her as a VP but I say we rage against that machine.
She still may decide to fight it out unless the superdelegates in massive numbers (which would probably mean more of hers defecting) endorse Senator Obama and let her know there's no going back.
June 4, 2008 1:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
'Zactly. It's a transparent blackmail attempt: "Make me VP, or I'll
tell my minions to sit out the election."
It's also a pathetic bluff. At most, her fanatical minions amount to
a few tens of thousands of wackos. The vast majority of her votes came from low-information casual observers.
Let the wackos sit it out! Barack can't afford to pollute the ticket
with someone who voted (and beat the drums!) for war, mocked his position on negotiating with the bad guys, and tried to out-Dick TheDick on Iranian obliteration.
There are MANY eligible VP candidates who could bring in more votes than Shrillary -- without energizing the Repug base.
...Barack is no dummy,
LK
June 4, 2008 1:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
1:05am EDT TPM posts Obama's speech!
June 4, 2008 1:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
In honor of it's venue, I dub this "The Hillary Clinton Bunker Speech".
June 4, 2008 1:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have to say that I'm appalled by Hillary's speech. I thought she would finally confront reality and congratulate Obama for clinching the nomination. Boy, was I wrong! Let's see...
1. Didn't acknowledge that Obama won. Check.
2. Gave no sign that she was going to suspend her campaign. Check.
3. Undermined Obama's victory by repeatedly doling out the trope that she was the popular vote winner. Check.
4. Continued to argue that she would be the stronger candidate against McCain. Check.
5. Signaled that she was willing to go all the way to Denver. Check.
Did I miss anything?
I understand that this was a close election, and I empathize with those who strongly support Clinton, but at the end of the race there's a winner. And that winner's Obama.
After her speech, I'll admit I was scratching my head. I sniffed my cocktail to make sure no one had spiked it with some reality reducing substance. Nope. It was just two parts Seagrams and one part Sprite. What puzzled me was this-- just what in the hell was she campaigning for? Some of my friends said 2012--or 2016 if Obama wins. Others said for VP. The only thing that seems reasonable is that she is angling for VP, but does one do that by threatening to create a coalition government? I suppose so if you are committing a coup d'etat.
In the final analysis, I'm left colder than ever about the so-called "dream ticket", which I suppose populates the dreams of those consigned to purgatory--at least, insofar as her strong-arming tactics suggest. But I'll sleep on it, and with the fog of alcohol and anger receding, I'll reassess my opinion on the matter.
June 4, 2008 2:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with everything you wrote.
To me, it seemed that she had her speechwriters work up a victory speech and with a few minor word changes here or there, that's what she delivered. They really do live in an alternate universe.
I was particularly appalled that she repeated the fallacy that she "won" the popular vote, even after losing the nomination, even after it doesn't matter anymore.
Which shows either: 1) just how pathological their lying is; 2) that they have completely deluded themselves; or 3) their contempt for our intelligence knows no bounds.
I know Obama supporters are supposed to be magnanimous in victory, but it's hard to tolerate the continued spreading of bullshit.
Yes, she should have the time she needs to leave on her own terms. But she should stop the bullshit.
And no nightmare ticket. She spent too many years of her life playing second-fiddle to Bill. No way she'll ever again play second-fiddle to anyone else.
June 4, 2008 9:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Remarkable--what Jeff Toobin described as "deranged narcissism".
This speech--its very essence--was predicted on May 23rd:
Why Hillary should not be VP:
From "Head of State"
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/05/head-of-state-reasons-that-hillary.html
Friday, May 23, 2008
Head of State: The Reasons That Hillary Should Not Be Vice President
Regarding Hillary Clinton as Barack Obama's running mate:
Originally, this seemed to be a potentially plausible choice--and if presented in the following way, could turn her divisive campaign into a potential coup as a VP candidate. The thinking was the following:
Hillary has run a divisive campaign. Now, just as the nation should mend its divisions in favor a greater unity that would serve the greater needs of our country, so now they would explicitly put these divisions behind them, in the interests of the unity that this nation, after a bitter and divisive Administration, is so in need of. This would serve as a powerful and vibrant example of the very ability to unify that Obama both offers and represents.
However, this would require a candidate that was willing to take such a position of relative shared selflessness in the interests of a greater good. While the Vice Presidency certainly offers its honors (now far beyond the "warm pitcher" of John Vance Garner's famous phrase) and positioning for later Presidential aspirations, such a plan would require the ability to think in terms of a shared effort based on the betterment of the nation, rather than in more grasping, combative and singular terms.
The Clinton camp's behavior over this past week has made such a positive scenario clearly untenable, showcasing the same characteristics that have signified her campaign throughout its long, chaotic march--its contradictions of previous statements when such changes have a slight possibility of adding a week or two of vitality, its sudden and implausible use of populist guises and specious historical parallels for transparently opportunistic purposes, its near-hallucinogenic transmogrifications of personality and central bases for further continuation,
and the central campaign tendency to place personal attainment over virtually all values that lay in its path.
These characteristics--self over nation, positioning over a consistent presentation of position, values and even self, the willingness to put personal viability over the need to transcend and transform the vast wreckage of state and international relations that remains at this critical time--are as present now, at a moment when wisdom rather than a remorseless, obdurate desperation could fill this gap, as they have been throughout much of the campaign. They would continue to make themselves present during a Clinton campaign for vice president, complicating, diminishing and often distracting from, in trivial internecine battles, the message of unity and change.
Perhaps Clinton could adopt a more unifying, integrated and less grasping position on the VP subject. However, thus far, the actions of the Clinton camp have made it clear: It's time to clean the slate. Hillary Clinton should not be the Vice Presidential candidate.
Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/05/head-of-state-reasons-that-hillary.html
June 4, 2008 7:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think it's interesting that she refers to there being an opportunity on her site to offer comments on whether she should stay in the race or not.. I wanted to vote 'not', went to the site, the pop-up box is framed as a message of support to stay in the race! There is a comments box, but there's no guarantee that they'll read that, vs. just counting the number of comments and saying they're all in favor of her staying. One more disappointing little episode...
June 4, 2008 7:46 AM | Reply | Permalink
Eh. I watched the first few minutes, and it looked like she was being gracious and complimenting Obama quite a lot.
She can't be all down and defeated in front of a crowd of supporters like that, can she?
Granted, I didn't have the patience to watch the whole thing, but it seemed off to a good start.
June 4, 2008 8:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Never mind.
I went back and watched more. Not so great.
June 4, 2008 8:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
The longer Clinton holds out in conceding, the more difficult it will be for her to do so. And the longer she waits, the more damage she does to her reputation.
It's very much like the issue of the Iraq war. The longer Clinton held onto her vote of support for the invasion, the more difficult it became for her to say that she was wrong.
Ultimately Iraq would be her undoing in the primary, and her failure to concede graciously will bring lasting damage to her within the Democratic party.
June 4, 2008 8:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is a must-read:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/xxfactor/archive/2008/06/03/ginger-snaps.aspx
June 4, 2008 8:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I just put up a new post on why I think Hillary will never be Obama's choice for VP at http://www.tagg-theangrygayguy.com
June 4, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Being called "deranged" by Jeffrey Toobin is like having Herve Villechaize accuse you of being "vertically challenged".
June 4, 2008 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink