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Wolfson: I'm Not Sure That Joe Andrew Is "Actually From Indiana"
A bit of an odd exchange on MSNBC just now: Howard Wolfson was asked by Andrea Mitchell to respond to former DNC chair Joe Andrew's switch to Obama.
Wolfson seemed to suggest that Andrew isn't really from Indiana, but Hillary is really from New York...
Wolfson: Well, I'm not sure by the way that he's actually from Indiana. I know he's originally from Indiana, but --Mitchell: Well it's sort of like Hillary Clinton being from Illinois, or New York, or Scranton, or Arkansas --
Wolfson: No, she lives in New York, and so when she -- she's a senator from New York, so she's from New York.
Parsing this a bit, it would appear to mean that you're not actually from a state if you were born there, but you are from a state if you moved there in your early fifties to get elected Senator.
Late Update: Here's video...
Late Late Update: Andrew responds...
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Oh. My. God.
I don't know what to say - other than Wolfson makes my stomach hurt.
May 1, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, once again, totally misses the point.
He's saying he's not sure that he's specifically an INDIANA SUPERDELEGATE.
Is he? If so, then he's wrong. Plain and simple. If not, then he's right, plain and simple.
May 1, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Right on technical points, but he still came off as a hairsplitting, whiny nerd. Why do you think Josh's headline on the home page is "Malpractice?"
May 1, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
He was an Indiana superdelegate until he switched sides. Just like caucus states mattered until she lost them. Or half of the super-tuesday states, or small states, or states with high african-american turnout, or the 11 in a row...
May 1, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, he was an Indiana automatic delegate. Now I'm not sure what he is.
May 1, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm you might be right, the reporter said "He's a superdelegate from Indiana", so Wolfson could have been arguing that he doesn't have superdelegate status for *representing* Indiana in any official capacity, though Hillary represents New York as a superdelegate.
It certainly sounds silly on face value, which is arguably more important. However, making the distinction between a superdelegate having been born in Indiana, and a superdelegate who represents Indiana, is a distinction worth making (assuming Joe Andrews isn't also an official representative of Indiana).
May 1, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you're right, but Wolfson should have said so. "What I mean is that I don't believe he's part of the Indiana delegation to the convention." Tone deafness on his part.
May 1, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just checked (at NYTimes.com): Andrew is indeed a member of the Maryland delegation, just as Hillary is a member of the New York delegation.
So it seems that was the point that Wolfson was trying (unsucessfully) to make.
In any case:
1) Wolfson's quibbling about which state Andrew is "from" is completely off the point, irrelevant to the question he was being asked; and
2) it cheers me to see Greg snarking about it. :-)
May 1, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good to have that cleared up, thanks.
I would disagree the quibbling was off-topic, though, as this is all in the background of the imminent Indiana primary. If you're a voter in Indiana, you'd presumably be more interested in hearing a "superdelegate from Indiana" switched to Obama, than a "superdelegate from Maryland"
May 1, 2008 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
What about a Maryland superdelegate from Indiana? ;)
Yeah, but as you said earlier, no two ways about it—Wolfson flubbed it. The typical voter isn't going to look any deeper into this, and now has the idea that Wolfson is defining things in a very unusual way.
May 2, 2008 10:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
These people are so predictable. They expect absolute loyalty, while they offer nothing in return. If voters could only see that this same attitude would be applied to them if Hillary was elected, they'd abandon her in a second. But Hillary's a hustler. She knows how to play the pimp, and and the suckers eat it right up.
May 1, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You people are so predictable! She said he was a super delegate from IN, he said, no he's not a SD from IN. BFD! The main point Wolfson made is that the "switcher's" reasoning for switching (don't count on his loyalty later Barack) isn't valid. A vote for Hillary is a vote for McCain? Of course Wolfson is going to disagree with that.
Andrea Mitchell is a hack, not a journalist.
And to those of us who haven't drunk the kool-aid, it looks like Obama released this switched endorsement to distract you fools from the Wright drama, which goes on and on and on.
May 1, 2008 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
What we do know with certainty now is that HILLARYLAND is now officially a part of THE TWILIGHT ZONE. Reality bends.
May 1, 2008 4:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wolfson is about as tone-deaf as Penn, and just as slimy.
Where does Clinton find these vermin, anyway?
May 1, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
My guess: Karl Rove remommended them to her.
May 1, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Real good with geography? They have been since day one!
May 1, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a little like saying that Obama is black.
May 1, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Race-hate much?
May 1, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or that Hillary is a liar or that you are an idiot.
May 1, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whatever. The point is - as it always is with these kind of "obvious" mentions - that mentioning it is meant to bring up other things in the minds of voters.
The point is not to say, "gee, he's not really from Indiana" and leave it at that. It's to bring doubts into the minds of Indiana voters as to Andrew's credibility as a native of the state. Why else bring it up at all?
I know you're not this naive, so I'll just take it as par for the course from you.
May 1, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're over thinking this one waaayyy too much. The boogie man is not out to get you.
May 1, 2008 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR HILLARY!!!
May 1, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
We should just buy Sit 'N Spins for the entire Clinton camp. It would be a lot more productive.
May 1, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good lord, the Sit 'N Spin will end up being someone's avatar.
The saying used to be "sit on it and rotate," right?
May 1, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean like this? :)
I was linking the fun of the Sit N' Spin to the spin that is constantly coming out of Camp Clinton.
May 1, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Quit quibbling Greg. Face it, in the immortal words of Roy Orbison, "it's over". Obama is tanking.
May 1, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Obama is tanking."
A shame that the supers feel differently..
May 1, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's one more delegate ahead of Clinton than he was yesterday.
May 1, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually--TWO more. One less for Hil, one more for Barack
May 1, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, learn a new song already.
May 1, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, this is the chewbacca defense!
May 1, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think the whole Hillary campaign has been the Chewbacca defense.
May 1, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are these people nuts?
Hillary was BORN in Illinois but she lost BIG TIME there. She lived in Arkansas for many years but she doesn't CLAIM it until they VOTE there. She moved to New York in her 50s and now they consider her FROM THERE?
Now we're in Indiana and she's claiming to be FROM a neighbor - ILLINOIS.
Just as she did in Pennsylvania.
Does she have a favorite or is just related to voting times?
May 1, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't she also have some claim to being from Ohio?
May 1, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, but she worked on the factory floor with her Dad and ate molded jello. What other bona fides do you need?
May 1, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Molded jello or jello molds? The molded jello would sure get her the sympathy vote.
Crap....I think I just gave her campaign a new talking point to gain the blue-collar vote!
May 1, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is my understanding that Jello molded into various concoctions is a staple food of the white working class.
May 1, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm a college educated, latte drinker, so I wouldn't know about that sort of stuff.
May 1, 2008 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is. And it's disgusting. The worst offenders are the ones with stuff inside them. Like pineapple, or those canned cherries. My grandma used to make this green jello mixed with whipped cream or something so it was like a more solid colored green. And then it had little bits of fruit in it. Ugh. My mom loves it still. I could never bring myself to try it.
May 1, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
The worst is the jello salad with shredded carrots in it. BLECH. Now THAT'S worth a sympathy delegate.
May 1, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ha! So true. I forgot about the vegetable jello molds.
Check this baby out. MmmMmmGood...
http://www.miqel.com/images_1/random_image/r1/vinegar-eggs-spam-jello-mold.jpg
May 1, 2008 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Watch out, it will soon be reincarnated as someone's avatar . . .
May 1, 2008 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
As noted above:
Real good with geography? They have been since day one!
Posted by ADLEED
May 1, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
May 1, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
She also played up her ties in CA because her mom when to high school 700 years ago in the city next door to me.
She also played up her ties in TX talking about all the great fun Bill and her had down there (probably with Poppy Bush). No one pointed out how her campaign message in TX contradicted the simultaneous campaign message in OH.
May 1, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's why we're so upset in Michigan about the primary. We never got to hear how Hillary is our native daughter.
May 1, 2008 4:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I tried to ignore Hillary in Texas.
I was mostly able to.
May 1, 2008 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I saw that with Andrea Mitchell this afternoon.
She threw it back at him with something like "just like Clinton is not really from Illinois or New York" and he was left stammering a bit realizing he had stuck his foot in his mouth.
The Clinton Campaign mindset is to fight fight fight with out any regard for how hypocritical they are.
May 1, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Probably because he was taken aback by her response! She said he was a SD from IN, Wolfson corrected her and said, no, he's not a SD from IN!
Fer chrissakes people, grow up already!
I know it's not easy when the MSM behaves worse than you do, but it's still no excuse for your ignorant behavior.
How can you be Obama supporters and still behave like this? Barack is not a simpleton, he has positions that require an ability to think critically. He's not a 1-dimensional candidate at all, and yet many of his supposed supporters (here at TPC/TPM), appear to be some of the dumbest of people around. How will you win my support if Obama is the nominee? Try to be just a bit more intellectually honest would you?
May 1, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Allright, all you posters who say Greg Sargent is a pro Hillary shill need to chill out now. No Hill Shill would say:
May 1, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
don't worry, someone will figure out a way to see this as pro-Hillary...
:)
May 1, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep up the good work.
May 1, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll take a shot at it: You picked a lightweight tidbit like this to criticize Camp Hillary and now purport to use it as evidence that you are "fair and balanced", to borrow a phrase.
May 1, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
excellent!
May 1, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks! Your sarcasm may be as biting as my own.
May 1, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
See? He's in the tank for Hillary, but being a dick is far more satisfying.
May 1, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, silly, you're supposed to say
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!!! FOR GREG SARGENT!!
May 1, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, I must tell you. You have some real testicular fortitude to keep on keepin' on.
May 1, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
All he lacks is the mullet.
May 1, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually no, I am the one defending Greg. Sometimes he doesn't pick his words as carefully as you and I would like, but I don't think he is a Hill Shill.
May 1, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
You think he's just a crappy writer? Mmmm... maybe. A combination--that's my theory.
May 1, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know, I see a lot of real Hill Shills on line and I don't think Greg messures up.
I admit, I like TPM. I especially like TPM Election Central. So I defend Greg and Eric because, trust me, it could be a LOT worse.
May 1, 2008 4:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just wish TPM could get a copy-editor. It seems like it's everyday that Greg has to go back and edit out some inflammatory language that mischaracterizes something he's "reporting" on.
May 1, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hear, hear!
May 1, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
As I said in another post, I don't think Greg's pro-Hillary toadying is nearly as important to him as is the sheer joy of pissing people off.
May 1, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, Greg is no pansy.
May 1, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
So what was his intended point? He's not really from Indiana, so his superdelegate status is revoked? Huh?
Keep Wolfson out of the White House, please.
May 1, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have you noticed Obama's call for talking about race has turned into lets move away from it. Lets move on, Obama and he is wife say now.
Mmmmmmm, why the change?
May 1, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, way not to pay attention. Obama never wanted this to be about race. Hillary and her renfros did everything they could to paing Obama as the "Token Black Candidate."
May 1, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh please. He made a speech calling for it when Wrightgate hit the news.
Now he wants to move on.
Get real. His race card backfired and lost the white votes.
May 1, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, you are really stupid. The Wright thing was months after Hillary sent her Renfros out to attack Obama.
And that speech on race was more important than anything Hillary has ever done.
May 1, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
He was FORCED to talk about race after the Wright story broke. He has always said he wanted to transcend race--indeed, he can't win if the election is about race.
May 1, 2008 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you understand -- can you possibly comprehend -- the concept of a contextual thread? Or do you just go to places and blurt out whatever happens to roll through your mind at the moment? Sheesh. Get back on the meds, or you might end up on some downtown street corner muttering "vote for Hillary" endlessly.
May 1, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think gotalife's one lonely brain cell has Tourette's.
May 1, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Stealing from the Daily Show:
Headline: "Old Man Yells at Cloud!"
May 1, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
True, the willingness to poke fun at Wolfson is a clear sign that you haven't totally lost your mind.
May 1, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Haha, that's great. I'm surprised she hasn't been regaling voters with tales of hunting brown tree snakes in Guam as a child.
May 1, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
The caucus isn't close enough yet....give her time.
May 1, 2008 2:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
ATTENTION VOTERS IN INDIANA AND NORTH CAROLINA:
THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN THINKS YOU ARE STUPID, AS EVIDENCED BY THIS VIDEO CLIP. PLEASE PROVE THEM WRONG ON TUESDAY.
SIGNED,
THE REST OF AMERICA
May 1, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wherever he is from, Andrew is a major league asshat.
May 1, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
You got that right.
Why any super would endorse Obama when is tanking is beyond me.
Probably has a problem with Terry who took his job.
May 1, 2008 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Considering how shitty the DNC was under McAuliffe, I'd think Andrews would have a right to be pissed at him.
May 1, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can you not read the writing on the wall? You're making an ass of yourself. it's over. Clinton's campaign is a joke now.
May 1, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because it got back to him that the SDs have already made a decision. The only decision he had was whether to stay on the train or get off at the next stop with Bill. The Clintons aren't very loyal to those who support them, so it doesn't really pay to back those type of people, especially when they can't win.
May 1, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Takes one to know one?
I'm sure you loved him until he got fed up with the Clinton smear tactics.
May 1, 2008 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
"But I have grown concerned that the actions of one candidate, my former candidate, are going to hurt us in the fall... And so now I am calling upon my fellow superdelegates, however they make their decision, whatever they make it by, to do it now."
why Andrew switched
May 1, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Btw in his letter this morning Andrew warned SDs that Clinton practiced dirty politics and they should expect him to be attacked and slimed by the Clinton campaign.
Nice to see they could not even wait 5 hours before proving him right.
May 1, 2008 2:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
So he slimes them because he thinks they might slime him. What a douche.
May 1, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nobody can slime the Clintons any more than they slime themselves. They bathe in it.
May 1, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, what a dickhead. What kind of Nancy, asswipe tries to defend himself!?
Is he "on notice" now?
May 1, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
hmm.. what is the problem here again.. what howard wolfson was pointing out was that he is not a superdelegate from indiana.. and hmm.. the problem with that is?? and josh didn't seem to have any problem with this guy when he came right out and said some of the most nastiest thing about clinton campaign without any provocation.. i guess then he was just being pre-emptive..its all fair when it comes from obama camp!
May 1, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
MSNBC: The Official Obama Cable Network, typical.
What Howard Wolfson said is the line that is NOT part of the highlighted text:
"The notion that we need to stop the process because some people are tired of it is just something that we don't agree with."
In other words, see you in Denver.
May 1, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
The superdelegates appear to be disagreeing.
May 1, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
See Democrats 1968. I remember having lived thorough that unforgettable year. This is a re-run of 1968. The Dems split, the loser's delegate walkout at the convention and if McCain wins, finally reform of these stupid caucuses, two-step primaries, proportional distribution of delegates, etc.
Super delegates know what's up, if Obama loses NC & IL, there may be a flood of committed delegates that move from BO to HC. Rev. Wright is here to stay and moderate Dems have zero problem voting for McCain over Obama.
May 1, 2008 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then enjoy your war with Iran.
I hope you get drafted.
May 1, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
He was alive in 1968, he's far too old to get drafted. Also far too old to recognize that once again the times they are a changin'...
May 1, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well I'm just about perfect drafting age, so I hope Marginal Player won't use his vote to send me off to die in some sand-ridden hellhole.
May 1, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, salving Marginal Player's ego is far more important than ending the war and saving your ass.
May 2, 2008 9:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
It's not going to the convention. It'll be over once all the superdelegates decide in June.
May 1, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why is proportional representation bad? I know it seems bad for Clinton, but, in general, what's wrong with it? It's meant to be more indicative of people's wishes. We don't have to use the Electoral College in primaries and the two contests are completely different so a winner-take-all system wouldn't mean anything in relation to the General Election. So what's your malfunction?
May 1, 2008 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm tired. Stop the Primaries and anoint Obama King. Thank you, now I can take a nap.
May 1, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup, take it to convention and let them whine about it.
We need fighters not whiners.
May 1, 2008 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you've finally decided to baok Barrack? Because Hillary is the biggest whiner of all time.
May 1, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
He didn't say so because it was obvious.
Sheesh.
May 1, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bad poll day??? Endorsement gone bad with stupid ass comments?
Have Josh invent the Evil Clinton Surrogate Narrative!
I'm sure Olberbama will get right on this!
Fucking pathetic.
May 1, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are pretty pathetic. Maybe you should see a doctor?
May 1, 2008 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wolfson = another mark penn. What a retard!
May 1, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
You reality-based whiners just dont' get Hillary's truthiness.
May 1, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
"The notion that we have to stop the process because some people are getting tired of it is just something we don't agree with."
May 1, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
He doesn't really think people want the primary to end "just because people are tired of it," does he?
May 1, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Hillary would stopt trying to tear down Obama and focus on the issues I wouldn't care how long it went on. But this "Kitchen Sink" shit has to stop.
May 1, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this really a big deal? Is it even a small deal?
Maybe it was better when we had to wait for Theodore H. White to write "The Making of the President, 19__". He left this stuff out.
May 1, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would like to know if there is any attempt by the MSM to buy the silence of the SD's. Since they own the airwaves they are free to create the perception that there is some viable race. But a direct attempt to delay the dem nomination would be really bad. Also what if they are in league with the HRC campaign directly. Perhaps funneling money to the campaign?
If it was ONLY the HRC campaign that didnt see the truth the SDs would still decide it for her. But somehow this is not happening. As corrupt and rife with corporate dollars as our system is, I would not be suprised to see some coordination between HRC/MSM. Dems are not for this to continue, so who is?
May 1, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Man, you people are petty and pathetic. Wolfson makes a simple comment and you try to blow it up into something significant.
What I'm wondering is HOW MUCH $$$ MONEY Obama's people PAID Andrews for his defection.
I hope someone digs into that.
Rae
May 1, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you criticize us for being petty and then accuse Andrews of accepting bribes just because he's voting for the candidate you're not supporting. Clearly you have the moral high ground here.
May 1, 2008 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary has the momentum in all the polls now.
She's even PULLED AHEAD IN NORTH CAROLINA!
So why NOW? Why defect NOW?
It sounds SUSPICIOUS to me.
Rae
May 1, 2008 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
In what way?
May 1, 2008 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because she can't win, and if she got the nomination it would be a disaster for the Democratic Party. That's why defect now.
May 1, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
100% agreed.
May 1, 2008 3:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree 110%.
May 1, 2008 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Everytime a SD picks Hillary it's because she is the stronger candidate. Everytime a SD picks Obama it's because he's bribing them. Get off it.
You say Obama is tanking but the SDs seem to disagree. Take the loss like a man.
May 1, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
that'd be kinda hard to do since I'm not a man....
;)
May 1, 2008 4:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure he meant, "Show some testicular fortitude."
May 1, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Hillary can make Rocky look like a pansy, you can take this like a man.
May 1, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
He explained it in his letter. Short version: he's voting for Obama because he likes Obama more as a candidate. The same reason any voter switches.
As far as bribery - which is really just a baseless cheapshot and you know it - why would they bribe him? Like most politicians, the guy is probably rich and besides, the risk of getting caught bribing far outweighs whatever small bump his endorsement brings them.
May 1, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's not ahead in NC. Y'all have set up a hardcore goal. If she doesn't win NC, the bottom will fall out. It already has in reality, now you're gonna kill the perception...and that's all you have left. You sure you wanna go this route?
May 1, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
R -- That was a bit extreme. Its really just inside the beltway back-scratching. Maybe the guy wants to get back in the game at some point, who knows?
May 1, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know Rae, how much does Hillary pay for an endorsement?
If anyone is likely to be involved in such shennanigans it is Hillary. Barack refused to hand out "walking around money" in PA, Hillary didn't.
May 1, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to tinhatmoonbat.com, Obama offered Andrew an important cabinet position. And also, they paid him a billion bucks.
It's really starting to sink in, isn't it? First Kennedy, then Kerry, then Richardson, now this. Could they possibly know something you're just beginning to accept?
May 1, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
They bribed him with the money the trolls give Obama.
It stinks to high heaven.
May 1, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
wanna get sued? Keep slandering him -
May 1, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
asshole... you have no idea what you're talking bout.
May 1, 2008 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!!!!
be sure and try to call me when you get thrown in jail.
May 1, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of which...we managed to hack some info out of the site re the trolls...
Here's a picture of Rae K (NSFW):
http://tinyurl.com/jaydk
May 1, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oops she said she wasn't a man (she didn't say she WAS a woman...)...
But I guess this must be a picture of old goatselife after all...
May 1, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, it's really not fair. When that Obama superdelegate defected to Clinton no one accused him of being bribed.
Oh, wait. That's never happened.
May 1, 2008 4:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, I see. Now all Obama supporters are "trolls". Thanks for clearing that up.
gotalife, I have watched you grow more desparate by the week as your tactics clearly do no work. Soon, everyone in the U.S. will be a troll to you.
What will you do during an Obama presidency? Continue your slander, one predicts, as once this gets into the personality, it rarely comes out.
That said, I will require proof first that you are not some errant Java script haunting the Inter-Webs because your adolescent programmer abandonded you long ago...
And in case none of that registered, "I know you are, but what am I?"
Pax,
M.
May 1, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
So instead of addressing the fact that this former DNC chair under Clinton defected FROM Clinton to Obama, Wolfson is trying to distract by quibbling over where he's (not) from?
Ugh!
May 1, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
He should have blown it off, with a comment like:
"I don't know if Indiana voters will care about a DC lawyer switching sides, but we look forward to Mr. Andrew's support when he changes his mind again."
May 1, 2008 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
That would have been classic Wolfson. He's such a tool.
May 1, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Parsing this a bit, it would appear to mean that you're not actually from a state if you were born there, but you are from a state if you moved there in your early fifties to get elected Senator.
ha!
May 1, 2008 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe he is a DNC super for IN. He has been listed that way for awhile. I am in MD and he has never shown up on any lists I've seen for Maryland.
May 1, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wikipedia and Demconwatch both have him as being from Indiana.
May 1, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did this obscure remark really merit four paragraphs of front page commentary from Josh? Who effing cares?? Talk about dingbat sniveling.
May 1, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll never understand why New Yorkers welcomed the carpetbagger with open arms. I guess they knew they were being used and that President Hillary would remember them when she got into the White House. She certainly paid them off with pork over the years...
May 1, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's all true, but there's also a bit of truth to what Chris Mathews said, which is that a lot of people felt sorry for her and wanted to reward her for standing by her man (who they liked quite a bit in NYC).
May 1, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not much choice. After Rudy dropped out because of health problems, her opponent was Rick "Who the hell am I, again?" Lazio. Sort of tough to compete with a national celebrity, especially someone who was well-regarded for enduring Bill's adultery publicly. But yes, we should've known better.
May 1, 2008 3:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you know that this year she asked for 3 times as many ear marks as any other senator?
She knows she is going to lose and want to assure her reelection. Which brings up the point: Why is she doing everything she can to tear down Obama? The answer? My guess is that she wants Obama to lose the general election so she can run again in 2012.
What a scumbag.
May 1, 2008 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Over $2 BILLION!
May 1, 2008 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great, it went to our country.
May 1, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
ha!
Between defending the Gas Tax Holiday and now her exorbitant Earmarks, there really is no mystery anymore.
May 1, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
No it went where those earmarks always go - right into the pockets of a special interest group.
Come on. You know better than that.
May 1, 2008 3:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't ever underestimate what Gottalife DOESN'T know.
Ignorance is the life blood of Hillary fans these days.
May 1, 2008 4:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Clintons are swimming in slimey moulded jello.
May 1, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great response from Andrew. I hope that Obama begins using him as a surrogate.
May 1, 2008 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
They are moving him all around IN between now and Tuesday.
I would love to see another 30,000+ rally somewhere this weekend. It must sour Woldson's milk that Sen Clinton will never be capable of drawing such attention.
May 1, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you Andrew Weaver - loved your reply.
Just loved it.
May 1, 2008 3:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's a superdelegate and he's from Indiana is not the same as he's a superdelegate from Indiana.
Classic Clinton speak! I'm suprised Wolfson wasn't wearing a Pacer's cap.
May 1, 2008 4:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like she's the Pennsylvanian from Arkansas, by way of New York and Illinois.
May 1, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary - The ultimate (pan)der american.
May 1, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
"he's an American, as far as I know..."
Loathsome people, Clinton's zillions of paid surrogates.
Just loathsome.
May 1, 2008 4:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Everyone who really knows the Clintons rejects the Clintons.
Why doesn't she have more supporters among the people who know her best?
May 1, 2008 4:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not sure I saw this anywhere in the thread, but Andrew is listed on the "Unpledged PLEO Delegates -- by state" list under Indiana.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/5ccfd47d2b931d9253_bzm6bn91f.pdf
May 1, 2008 4:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like I said. This "headline" and the obamamite reaction to it is pretty dumb and pathetic. I guy makes a comment and you try to make something out of nothin.
The bigger news and story is:
* Hillary picked up more delegates
* Hillary is still ahead of Obama in Ind. polls
* Hillary's pulled ahead of Obama in NC
* Hillary is beating McCain in Penn., Ohio & Fla. while Obama loses to McCain in Fla. & Ohio
* Hillary had moved ahead of Obama in ALL polls including National polls
So now take that, put it in your pipes and SMOKE it. And get off the koolaid.
Rae
Hillary's WINNING!!!
May 1, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
She will never get my vote. Lies, obliteration, and a life-time of denial disqualify her without further comment.
May 1, 2008 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
If by "winning" you mean "falling further behind in the pledged delegate count and losing the lead on superdelegates" then yeah, Hillary's really kicking some ass.
May 1, 2008 4:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just to make sure no one falls for RaeK's lies and stupidity, the RealPolitics Averages today:
Obama +7.2 in NC
Clinton +4.8 in IN
No need to repeat the numbers that really matter: he's still insurmountably ahead in delegates and popular votes.
May 1, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does anyone here doubt that Mark Penn and Howard Wolfson would be regular sleepover guests in a Clinton White House Part 3?
Look at the folks around Hillary--are these the people you want to have access to your personal info via FBI etc?
May 1, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
You guy's can go ahead and get all excited about Andrew's endorsement. I for one am not happy about it because he was lobbying heavily for Diebold... of electronic voting machine fame. It's taking an endorsement from an enemy of progressives.
May 1, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which of course you did not object to as long as he had declared for Hillary. Get bent you lying sack of Tuzla horse manure!!!
May 1, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Come on.
No one has done more for Joe Andrew than Barack Obama.
May 1, 2008 8:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton and her surrogates aren't exactly a "class act" are they. This kind of gutter-trail sour-grapes shouldn't surprise anyone.
May 1, 2008 9:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is this disagreement silly? Of course it is. But this is what happens when you get frustrated. For some time now, just about every media person (including those covering her on a daily basis) have been playing up every pro-Obama vote as a great moment and hammering her every word and action as garbage and counterproductive.
You would get ticked off and more than a little goofy if that happened to you.
Look. I get it, Obamans. You are sticking with your guy no matter what. There is no exaggeration or reason give for a position that can upset you. Bravo.
So why is it on the rare occasion when a Clinton supporter is allowed to talk to the media to plead their case (and TPM deigns to link to it), they are criticized for being partisan (or, in this case, splitting hairs)?
May 2, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink