Wolfson Gets His Correction From The Times
As Mark Halperin noted -- and some of you emailed us about -- the Sunday New York Times was rather bullish on Obama's chances this coming Tuesday, reporting that he could end up with enough pledged delegates to proclaim that he's the actual nominee "without fear of contradiction."
Of course, though it's altogether possible that Obama will clinch the majority of pledged dels on Tuesday, that won't officially make him the nominee. And Hillary spokesperson Howard Wolfson loudly protested as much on Sunday.
Now The Times has rethought the matter. And the paper offered a correction today:
"To truly become the presumptive nominee, however, Mr. Obama would have to win additional support from superdelegates. And Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton's efforts to have the party recognize results from two disputed contests, in Florida and Michigan, could also affect the status of the delegate race."
I guess Wolfson screamed at them on the phone, with spittle flying about on the conference table.
May 19, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. The election is really heating up now. And the results from this poll say everything. You won't believe these results!
http://www.votenic.com
May 19, 2008 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fuck off spammer.
May 19, 2008 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
votenic, votenicdotcom, votenik, & now votenikdotcom?
What's the matter? keep getting banned?
LOL
I give this new name 10 minutes & it will be too
May 19, 2008 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was meant for thew spammer (if you couldn't figure it out).
;-)
May 19, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm doing a public service, so how is that a bad thing?
go put a shirt on.
May 19, 2008 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually if you posted anything deeper than a canned (SPAM) response plus your link, people wouldn't call you a spammer.
May 19, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
No you aren't
Your spamming your site in every thread and have been doing so for months on end, getting banned then registering with a slightly different name to spam here again and again.
Fuck off already.
May 19, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good one.
May 19, 2008 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gotalife:
A hero to spammers and trolls everywhere!
May 19, 2008 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it's such a public service, why do you have to keep making up new names to circumvent the posting policies at TPM?
May 19, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
He has too. He keeps getting blocked by the site admin.
Hmmm. I wonder how they keep finding out about him?
LOL.
May 19, 2008 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like Joshua with his shirt off! ;)
May 19, 2008 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
so then
Now her chances for winning the nomination are better, or still impossible, or highly improbable.
I mean,
are her chances atleast more likely now?
No?
Oh ok
nothing to see here
May 19, 2008 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary's super delegate strategy is becoming clear: Buy their votes.
Apparently a billionair Hillary booster offered the Young Democrats 1 million dollars for thier superdelage votes. Nice.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/19/superdelegates-turned-dow_n_102450.html
May 19, 2008 4:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, I hear the going rate is $500,000 apiece, too bad I'm not a superdelegate!
May 19, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know, 500K, to vote for Hillary?
That is a pretty tough call. On the one hand it is 500K. On the other hand it is Hillary...
May 19, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would have taken the $500,000, then turned around and endorsed Obama.
Doesn't her campaign always say delegates have the right to change their minds? This would have proved her right. I'm sure that would have made them all very happy.
May 19, 2008 6:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does she have $500,000?
May 19, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
yeah, I read that one.
Getting pretty ugly 'round here in them Dem primary.
I hope it is all untrue.
but it doesn't look that way
May 19, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Weak.
May 19, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well it's so nice to know that the Times will bow to pressure from more places than just the White House.
Thanks for the journalistic integrity - real stand-up reporters the Times has.
I love how she gets the story changed every fucking time she whines.
May 19, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
We can't let Hillary know the Tooth Fairy isn't real!
May 19, 2008 4:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whiner.
May 19, 2008 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, Hillary sure is a whiner.
May 19, 2008 5:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
No offense, but it's actually spelled "winner".
It's okay. We all make mistakes.
May 19, 2008 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hahahaha.
Whiner.
May 19, 2008 5:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
sure, call Hillary a whiner, but she got what she wanted this time, huh
May 19, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL
May 19, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mr. "this election is unfair" calling someone a whiner. Priceless.
May 19, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, THIS is what whining looks like:
AND
May 19, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lurked at Taylor Marsh lately?
-
Obama/Olbermann '08!
May 19, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
ew! no!
That's this jackass' comments from other threads today.
TM? ew.
May 19, 2008 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, The technical term for what is happening here is gloating. You two trolls are doing the whining. I wouldn't label either as especially productive to a reasoned discussion but I do confess to my share of the former.
May 19, 2008 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
And how she's suddenly coddling with Karl Rove, whose group's polling she was ballyhooing today, and Scaife.
I thought they were both "prime-time players" in the vast right-wing conspiracy?
On a related note, when Hillary was talking about Rove's research, she looked like she was standing on someone's front porch. And it sounded like there might have been somewhere between 5-10 folks on the lawn.
Oh, how the haughty have fallen!
--
Obama/Byrd (Just for tonight) '08!
May 19, 2008 10:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's also theoretically possible Obama will spontaneously combust. Perhaps, they should have included that possibility. No serious person thinks the supers will overrule the people, or that Mich. / Fla. will play a role in determining the nominee. I doubt anyone at the times thinks that will happen. Makes you wonder why they feel they have to indulge this fantasy.
May 19, 2008 4:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Spontaneous Combustion seems like such a remote possibility, though. I'm guessing they're putting their money on Asteroid Collision ;)
May 19, 2008 5:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno.. look at how many drummers Spinal Tap had to go through in their percussive nomination process due to the high incidence of spontaneous human combustion.
May 19, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Touche :)
May 19, 2008 5:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The sight of Barack as a little green globule is now firmly implanted in my head.
May 19, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think that it's a very real possibility that Obama will be attacked and killed by a grizzly bear while campaigning in Oregon. This would:
1. Clinch the Democratic Party nomination for Hillary Clinton.
2. Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that grizzly bears are the #1 threat to America.
May 19, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
We're here! We're clear! We don't want anymore bears!
May 19, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, IIRC, it's "we're here, we're queer, we don't want any more bears," which I find much funnier.
May 19, 2008 10:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
It'd pave the path for Stephen Colbert to win.
May 19, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad Obama decided not to declare victory tomorrow. It wouldn't sit well with the other half of the Party.
May 19, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Which party would that be, Otto?
I doubt very much that you speak for even one Hillary supporter. I think you are talking about another party altogether.
May 19, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
He never intended to declare victory so there was no decision not to do so. Just the Clinton campaign playing victim again.
May 19, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
He never said he was declaring himself the nominee tomorrow. He said that he would be clinching a lock on holding the majority of pledged delegates. Which is a mathematically certainty (since he only needs to win 17 pledged delegates to clinch it).
But thanks for playing.
May 19, 2008 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
May 19, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope Howie feels better now.
Wuss.
-
Obama/Olbermann '08!
May 19, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who does Wolfie have locked in a closet, what dirt does he have on them, that everyone he speaks to is quaking in their boots afterward?
Reminds me of that "West Wing" episode where Leo McGarry gets all these Congress-people in the press room, tells them he knows every relative they have in drug treatment, and threatens to go public with the info if anyone there speaks out against Bartlet's drug treatment (vs prosecution) plan.
May 19, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
"To truly become the presumptive nominee, however, Mr. Obama would have to win additional support from superdelegates."
Actually, Obama is already the "presumptive" nominee...everyone presumes he's got it won, including the press and the Republicans. Minus some unlikely catastrophic event that somehow knocks Obama out of the running, Hillary simply can't catch up. Moreover, recent stories mention that many top Hillary funders are moving over to Obama's camp.
The only reason why Obama is treading lightly is for the sake of reconciliation with Hillary supporters. Of course they'll vote for him, but he'll be in a stronger position if he can make the transition as painless as possible for them. So, no victory speeches on Tuesday...but everyone will know the truth anyway.
May 19, 2008 5:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I said this earlier, but I'm beginning to resent all this tiptoeing around her putative "supporters."
He's won - everyone needs to fact that fact straight up and get over it. I'm tired of coddling the ever so sensitive feelings of these people who don't want to deal with the fact that there ain't no Santa Claus.
May 19, 2008 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hear ya. Frankly, I think Obama comes across as stronger and more confident by NOT explicitly declaring victory tomorrow. I assume his speech will focus on McCain in the general, which is, IMO, the single best way to get Hillary supporters to come back to reality. Besides, the media will do the victory declaration for him.
May 19, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't have a problem with that. I'm not tempted to second guess Obama or his campaign - they do too good a job.
The problem I'm having is that it's beginning to feel like she's saying: "Yeah, he won, but I dare you to say so or enjoy it, " to Obama's supporters.
Cause we might hurt somebodies widdle feewings.
May 19, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great, Sweetie!
Obama is so proud of you!
May 19, 2008 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see that event the great "present" can be replied to once again! Have fun everybody!
May 19, 2008 11:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are right again. I do not know how he will handle this but it will be better than anything we can think of. I cannot wait to hear the speach tomorrow night.
May 19, 2008 11:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I went over to Taylor Marsh for some entertainment and I saw that she made a post devoted to scolding the site regulars for their comments on Ted Kennedy. Apparently she had to delete a whole slew of not-so-nice comments on the story about his hospitalization and lock the thread. Classy.
May 19, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Taylor Marsh is a bit over the top in her advocacy for my candidate, but I think she deserves credit for taking on some of her rabid posters, don't you? Maybe we should give it a whirl are here, eh?
May 19, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
ahould be "around here".
May 19, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, I'm not criticizing her for scolding the commenters who got out of line. The fault lies with the asshats who made the comments. Just goes to show you who's attracted to her blog's brand of asshattery, though.
May 19, 2008 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really hate this move toward publicizing comments.
Then the blogger has to be responsible for what's said and then there is censorship and then it gets confusing and less fun.
Comments are part of a conversation and taking them out of context is deeply unfair, IMHO.
May 19, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sheesh. Even Bush had the class to give Kennedy's wife a "hope everything's OK" phone call.
May 19, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
So we should expect a slew of superdelegate endorsements for Senator Clinton ANY minute now.... She needs something 90%+ of the superdelegates and with each one Obama picks up, the number becomes higher.
May 19, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, this IS the Convention Wisdom election, after all. According to the Villagers, that is. And who is TPM to argue with the Villager's infinite wisdom?
If it's good enough for Tim Russert, it's good enough for me. He says it's over, then dammit it's over.
If Obama wants to declares himself nominee based new electoral math, who cares?
And Hillary can stay in as long as she wants, as long as she doesn't make waves or mentions Obama in anything other than an exemplary fashion.
/TPM Troll
May 19, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Further, lightning may well strike Senator Obama, or a plague of locusts could eat all cast ballots, or...or.... the NY Times regrets the lack of imagination its failure to recognize these possible calamities reflects."
Really, I could see if they had called him the nominee - but everyone presumes he will be, though he doesn't have the numbers yet, so it seems to me presumptive nominee is the correct phrase. Leave it to Wolfson to accuse the NY Times of being out in front of anything at all.
May 19, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
HRC must be pounding her high heel shoe on the desktop today and thrashing around. I keep thinking of that Youtube video of Hillary's Downfall. I had to go rent the whole movie from netflix.
May 19, 2008 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fuzzy Math is confusing Hillary, and she refuses to listen those Elitist math experts:
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/w/6/2/object-in-mirror-sac0508cd.jpg
May 19, 2008 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
liam
I am stealing this one too.
May 19, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!!!!
I Still like the Oath of Office best, but this is good too.
May 19, 2008 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
edit: listen to those
May 19, 2008 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
REAL CLEAR POLITICS ELECTION 2008
Democrats Obama-Clinton Spread
Total Delegates 1912 - 1720 Obama + 192
Super Delegates 302 - 277 Obama + 25
Pledged Delegates 1610 - 1443 Obama + 167
May 19, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fl and MI make the spread about 90 and the needed number 2,210.
They will be seated.
May 19, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
They may be seated, that doesn't mean they'll be counted.
;)
May 19, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Barack Obama: Your girl's not the chosen candidate, Fogu. It was me who was chosen. You see, Dean found me and told me about the voters. You're just a fool.
Fogu2 Sunday: Why are you talking about Dean? Don't say this to me.
Barack Obama: I did what Dean couldn't. I broke your girl and I beat her. It was Dean who told me about grassroots and the 50 state strategy. He's the prophet. He's the smart one. He knew what votes and small-dollar donors were there and he found me to take it out of the ground, and you know what the funny thing is? Listen... listen... listen... we put him in charge of the party, votes in hand, just like that. He has the party now. A prosperous little party. Three special elections producing. Five superdelegates a day.
[Fogu2 Sunday cries]
Barack Obama: Stop crying, you sniveling ass! Stop your nonsense. You're just the afterbirth, Fogu.
Fogu2 Sunday: No...
Barack Obama: You slithered out of your Penn's filth.
Fogu2 Sunday: No.
Barack Obama: They should have put you in a glass jar on a mantlepiece. Where were you when Dean was suckling at our parties base? Where were you? Who was nursing you, poor Fogu- one of Carville's sows? The nomination has been had. Nothing you can do about it. It's gone. It's had. You lose.
Fogu2 Sunday: If you would just take the Michigan popular vote, Daniel...
Barack Obama: Drainage! Drainage, Fogu, you boy. Drained dry. I'm so sorry. Here, if you have a milkshake, and I have a milkshake, and I have a straw. There it is, that's a straw, you see? You watching?. And my straw reaches acroooooooss the room, and starts to drink your milkshake... I... drink... your... milkshake!
[sucking sound]
Barack Obama: I drink it up!
Fogu2 Sunday: Don't bully me, Barack!
[Barack Obama roars and throws Fogu2 Sunday across the room]
Barack Obama: Did you think your song and dance and your triangulation would help you, Fogu? I am the Third Revolution! I am who the party has chosen!
May 19, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Keep your day job.
May 19, 2008 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
May 19, 2008 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for acknowledging that this Obama supporter is a gainfully employed white guy. Baby steps will get you through this rough patch.
May 19, 2008 8:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can you make an audio version of that? Please?
May 19, 2008 11:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're one-third right.
MI/FL delegations will be seated.
They will not have a say in determining the nominee.
The RBC will penalize both states, so their full delegations won't be seated anyway.
So, the magic number won't go all the way up to 2210, and the spread will stay comfortably in triple digits.
May 19, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary plants a big wet kiss on a Turdblossom.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/19/clinton-cites-karl-rove-as-reason-to-stay-in/
Clinton cites Karl Rove as reason to stay in
May 19, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
O man, I'm definitely back to very very very annoyed, now.
Goddamn!
May 19, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
So Rove's emails concerning the US attorney firings mysteriously get deleted by the White House techies, but somehow his consulting firm's electoral data finds its way into the light.
C'mon Hill, let's use those critical thinking skills...
May 19, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
How did Rove do in his predictions on the mid-term elections?
May 19, 2008 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well we all know Rover is the guy to trust when it comes to opinions on Democrats versus Republicans. He's been so helpful to the party for the last several years and his ability to help get wars started, gasoline prices up, and dirty up decent Democratic candidates running against idiots is legendary.
The fact that Billary is bringing this up shows how very desperate she is to TRY to make it look like she has a chance of winning.
From now on I am going to refer to Obama as "The Next President of the United States, Barack HUSSEIN Obama." He has virtually won and it will be over except for the shouting tomorrow.
May 19, 2008 11:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Clinton campaign claims that Hillary leads in the popular vote.
But only if you include the currently null and void contests in Florida and all the voters in MI and you ignore all states that had caucuses.
So it's okay for them to be dishonest about the math.
They shouldn't be calling anyone else on the math.
May 19, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ironically, it is likely that FL and MI is what will decide the nominee.
FL and MI will be seated as they voted or there will be lawsuits. They will not be denied. Obama missed his chance to make a deal.
Get some popcorn.
May 19, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Florida may be seated as voted - but they will lose half their delegates. Of course, since Edwards is having his delegates move to Obama, the Florida gap will end up being very small.
Michigan's January vote will be absolutely, positively irrelevant to any deal for seating its delegation. The January primary was ruled unconstitutional by the MI Supreme Court, so it's basically void.
The best Clinton will do in MI is a 10-delegate edge in any deal, as that's the proposal the RBC is currently studying. Obama could fight for a 50-50 split, and probably get it, but with a total lead of around 170 delegates, it's not really worth the fight.
"...seated as voted..." LOL! Made my day. Thanks!
May 19, 2008 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
STOP!! STOP!!
May 19, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary trolls cannot handle reality checks. Their heads will literally explode.
May 19, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not arguing with your math, but truly - there is no such thing as the "popular vote" here. There isn't - but no one seems to get that.
This is a primary. There is no voting right in a primary. This is not a governmental function. There is no such thing as "popular vote." Different states handle the process differently to determine the percentage of delegates the state is sending to the convention.
I'm going to scream here: THIS IS NOT AN ELECTION. NOT AN ELECTION. NOT.
IT IS THE PRIMARY. Please quit talking about "popular vote" - it is a goddamn fairy tale. Please.
May 19, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Betty, do you ever shut up? Just wondering.
May 19, 2008 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
She's a lawyer.
May 19, 2008 6:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah those female lawyers that never shut up... like Hillary Clinton perhaps?
So is it misogyny to ask female lawyers to shut up when you do it to posters here, or just when someone suggests that Hillary should not attack the Democratic presumptive nominee and play spoiler?
May 19, 2008 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
We want Clinton to talk.
We want Tena to shut up.
Clear on the concept now Sweetie?
May 19, 2008 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am quite clear on concepts, also clear on basic math which shows there is no viability to Clinton's quixotic quest to overturn the voters in order to grab the nomination.
But thanks for playing and being a bit of a hypocrite about deriding Tena as not being able to shut up because she is a female lawyer (of which Hillary is also).
May 19, 2008 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know, it sucks when someone keeps responding to twisted logic with rationality and facts, right?
May 19, 2008 6:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jesus, Billy - as much time as you devote to me, I'm beginning to think you're one of the losers I told to take a hike at some point in my life.
May 19, 2008 6:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I imagine pretty much everyone you have come in contact with has taken a hike.
May 19, 2008 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Jeez - i didn't think When Trolls Attack would be airing until the other end of season replacements.
Weak. Even you for you three.
May 19, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you? She's right, there is no popular vote. You seem smart enough - just want to keep her supporter in the dark is that it?
May 19, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sweetie, you've been in this thread all day long!
Do you have a boyfriend, a teddy bear, a hobby?
May 19, 2008 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
How do you know? You stalking her?
No boyfriend, teddy bear or hobby for you, sweetie?
May 19, 2008 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only way you'd know that is if you'd been here.
and it's a lie because I couldn't even post for over 3 hours this afternoon.
D'oh!
May 19, 2008 6:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is "Present" the same guy who was flirtin' it up with Monica Lewinsky in the Reader's Posts?
I think he's looking for a girlfriend here.
May 19, 2008 6:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think this guy's sweet on you, Tena. You're developing a real following here!
May 19, 2008 6:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
O jeeeeez.
Are they going to litter up my lawn all night, standing there with boom boxes on their shoulders looking soulful and lost?
Good thing there are nice castiron grilles on my windows in New Mexico! LOL
May 19, 2008 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
You knocking good guys who like Peter Gabriel?
;-)
May 19, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, no. Nor am I knocking anyone who looks at all like Jon Cusack.
Not at all.
But I never said Billy would be playing Gabriel on the boombox.
LOL!
May 19, 2008 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
What about guys playing Duran2 on their iPhone that look like my avatar?
;-)
May 19, 2008 7:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone who looks like your avatar doesn't need an iphone.
May 19, 2008 7:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now I am really confused... because I do have an iPhone and that is me.
(wry grin)
May 19, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You knocking good guys who like Peter Gabriel?
;-)
May 19, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Frackin' TPM commenting system strikes again.
May 19, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or are they already there? That gnome over there - wasn't he wearing Lederhosen just a minute ago?
(cue Ominous Troll Soundtrack) ;)
May 19, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Apter correction:
May 19, 2008 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'd like to remind everyone that the delegates votes that Obama is hanging the nom on CAN and IS fluid until the convention. Meaning he could lose those same delegates any time before as well as add more.
The relentless media hype against Hillary is not the narrative or the conclusion to the primary until August.
Lets see June July and August, are eons away in an election season, ANYTHING can happen.
and how does it look for Obama to claim victory while he loses primary after primary in the media? He looks foolish to me and dishonest and the media looks like the stooges they've been throughtout it all.
We're going to the convention and guess what? it won't sunder the party. Ted Kennedy challenged Carter in the 1980s when he was behind 700 votes to Hillary 200.
we'll see you at the convention
May 19, 2008 6:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
How did that work out for Kennedy?
May 19, 2008 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly.
Not going to happen. Dean and Pelosi and Reid have already said so.
She's going back to the Senate - there's a limit as to just how far she can push this thing and comfortably go back to her job as a senator.
May 19, 2008 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tena,
I think she's already passed that limit. We'll see.
May 19, 2008 8:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the party rallied around the nominee and lead to Carter's successful second term.
May 19, 2008 6:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's no media hype against Hillary. There's basic arithmetic, being reported by the media, that's against Hillary. Go to http://demconwatch.blogspot.com for the latest counts.
Basically, Clinton needs almost all of the remaining delegates - and between the likely delegate split in the last five primaries, the uncommitted "Pelosi Club" superdelegates who have committed to supporting the winner of the pledged-delegate count, and Clinton backers (Maria Cantwell, Barney Frank, etc.) who have said they'll switch if Obama's leading on June 3, I don't see Clinton's path to closing the gap.
Of course, CNN's John King laid all this out waaaaay back on the night of the Mississippi primary. Even then, Clinton's path was frighteningly narrow. Now, it's infinitesimally so.
The part of the 1980 primary that you conveniently omit was that Carter was so busy fighting with Kennedy and Harold Ickes (Kennedy's campaign manager then) that he didn't have time to put the party back together - and got roasted by Reagan.
Fortunately, the supers who were around then haven't forgotten this, and don't want a second helping.
May 19, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mmmmm...yeah, rational thought. Thanks, EastSide.
Unfortunately, it's lost on the trolls.
But, the rest of us appreciate it!
May 19, 2008 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exact-o-mundo!
Well said.
May 19, 2008 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
The NYT has spoiled its reputation irrevocably this primary cycle. Their reporters seem to get their stories from cable news and Daily Kos.
The paper is making a mistake appeasing bloggers, because most are either hired Trolls, republicans, or sock puppets.
May 19, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, the New York Times is really in the tank for Obama, what with them endorsing Hillary in the primary and all.
May 19, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would the "sock puppet" demographic include TPM posters who post under assumed names with quotation marks in an effort to avoid having people respond to them? Or would that fall under "hired troll"?
By the way, if the Times has spoiled its reputation this cycle, would that have started before or after its endorsement of Hillary Clinton? Just sayin'.
May 19, 2008 6:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who cares what Wolfson or Hillary says.
I am going to celebrate the end of the Bush-Clinton era tomorrow night.
What a victory for Obama and the new Democratic party.
The morally and politically corrupt Clintons will finally be tossed.
I have been waiting for 16 years and no one is going to stop my celebration.
BYE BYE Billary
May 19, 2008 7:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Party at TPM - be there or be square!!
May 19, 2008 10:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
The New York Times' correction is
GREAT NEWS FOR HILLARY!
May 19, 2008 7:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
No matter what happens I'm leaving the Democratic Party. It makes me sick to have to watch Obama have to jump through every hoop in the book just so that Hillary can get another shot at winning the nomination, but she still keeps losing, so they just add another hoop.
Just give her the f*ing nomination and stop pretending this is a fair process, because I don't think for a minute that any other candidate who ran this election would have had to go through half this much to get the nom from her. God bless America.
May 19, 2008 8:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Huh?
I am leaving the party because Obama should not have to fight to win, so when he wins I am leaving the party.
That makes no sense at all.
May 19, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's not what I meant. Probably worded it wrong. My point is this should not have gone on. At the point when she could not catch up with the delegates it should have ended. What she is doing is making it hard for him to reconcile with her supporters because they will believe he "stole" the nomination because she has convinced them she has a chance to win because of popular votes.
Only delegates matter, not popular votes. And if she manages to convince super delegates to give her the election despite his having more delegates than that would be massive disenfranchisement. Since I don't believe had Obama been Edwards she would have been allowed to get away with this, it causes me to distrust the Democratic Party; therefore, I no longer want to be in the party.
May 19, 2008 9:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Party hasn't responded to her yet. Give it time.
May 19, 2008 10:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
A triumph for formalism.
May 19, 2008 9:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wolfson probably offered the Times a choice they couldn't refuse: they relent or face a hostile takeover by Scaife and Murdoch.
May 19, 2008 9:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I get to cast my vote for Obama tomorrow and be part of the surprisingly bigger vote for Obama than expected. (I hope.)
In any case, it will be effectively over tomorrow except for Billary's shouting.
May 19, 2008 11:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
This race is not over, watch out for Florida and MI. I say this as an Obama supporter! The rules committee better be fair, because there is no way in hell I would be ok with Clinton getting anything out of MI. And I think everyone would agree. That said though, this race is not over. Even after tommorrow, this race is not over. I wish that it was though. We need to hold our breaths... Until I see confetti coming down on Obama at the Convention will I believe he is our nominee. Till then, working the phones, staying positive and prayin'!
May 19, 2008 11:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Annie, you are correct to be shakin in your shoozies. What would be fair (to you) from the superdelegates? Shouldn't they count the actual number of votes out there? Hmmm? Is it really okay with you that Michigan is not counted AT ALL? Do you really call that democratic? Not even a little guilt about how bent this primary season has been? Isn't it just a little weird that blacks for Hillary are called traitors to their race? Don't you feel badly about all the old ladies who COULDN'T GET TO THE CAUCUSES? Have you searched your soul about your ugly thoughts about West Virginians - a whole FRIGGING STATE?
That's right. YOU might be the pigs. Not the other guys. Think about it.
May 20, 2008 6:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Only an intellectually dishonest person can claim that we should count Michigan who only had Clinton on the ballot.
You seem to come form the Henry Ford Model-T school of democracy.... "You can buy a Ford in any color, as long as it's black".
May 20, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have a piece of information to interject:
Howard Berman is my District's US Representative. Howard is KNOWN for several things . . . Most notably that he never takes a stand on anyting controversial AND if what he believes in is unpopular he blows town and misses the vote.
Given that tidbit of information . . . I am fairly certain that we should note that Berman expressed his support of Senator Obama several days ago.
Senator Clinton ran a good campaign. The Clinton campaign continues to make choices that I could not and would not make. It is Clinton's right to go deeply into debt and destroy what is left of her political clout.
In the end, the folk who love the Obama and the folk the love the Clinton NEED to put on their big boy and big girl panties and support the eventual nominee.
When it is I that has to interject a call for civility the whole farging community should be embarassed.
May 20, 2008 9:22 AM | Reply | Permalink
Here ya go, Richard: Obama stopped a revote in Michigan. The end of credibility there. Two: I KNEW something was wrong with Kennedy's brain. Three: He may be SO sick, he leaked the diagnosis TODAY to rain in Hillary's win in Kentucky and close in Oregon. Four: He may be sicker than that. That he's not sick at all. Made it up. THOSE are the panties YOU have to fill, sir. You will have no trouble, especially since you are permitted to use anything you want to use, besides your ass of course. All the disgrace and embarrassment is on your side. The cultists and lemmings are running off YOUR cliff. You guys went too far six months ago to bring us all together again. The thought makes me gag.
May 20, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
casey,
although Iam not certain if it was the party or the Obama campaign that stopped the re-vote, but again it would have been unfair since the people willing to pay for it were HRC supporters and donors. They would have controlled the event.
Even with Michigan and Florida added in (acc. to Dem Convention Watch) Obama is ahead (yesterday's numbers) by 82. To reach the 2025 mark Obama needs only 31 whereas HRC needs 113.
Without Michigan and Florida Obama is ahead by 194 (yesterday's numbers. To reach 2025 he needs only 110 to HRC's 306.
By every mathematical metric Obama has won.
The popular vote is a non-issue, too. Nonetheless Obama is ahead by 607,000 (plus) even subtracting Clinton's lead in Kentucky of 229,000 Obama is still ahead by 338,000. Considering he will win Oregon those numbers will more than likely be erased.
May 20, 2008 10:15 PM | Reply | Permalink