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Some Super-Dels Reluctant To Take Sides Because They Don't Want To Alienate Major Donors

I've been meaning for some time to make a quick point about some of the real reasons that many super-delegates have been reluctant to choose sides in the Dem primary fight.

Some super-dels -- in particular, those who are also current candidates for office -- don't want to pick either Hillary or Obama yet partly because they're reluctant to alienate the major donors who have lined up with the candidate they don't pick. That's because these super-dels are themselves hoping to raise money from those donors for their own campaigns.

This sort of explanation has been largely absent from the discussion about the super-dels. Their reluctance to decide between the two Dems is almost always framed as an inability to decide based on the actual merits of each of the candidates.

In fact, as Dem donors who have privately discussed the situation with super-dels tell me, the super-dels are also largely driven by constraints on their local political situation -- constraints such as this fear of alienating big-money people in the party.

Just something worth being aware of as this bizarre and convoluted process continues to unfold.


Comments (51)

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Some super-dels -- in particular, those who are also current candidates for office

Do we have any idea how big of a proportion this truly represents? I don't doubt the general thrust of this argument, but I don't think that the majority of the remaining undeclared superdels fall under this umbrella.

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This brings to mind the power of Tom Delay's K Street project, threatening to withhold monetary support of the down line party members if they didn't stay with the lock step vote scheme. Boy, I'd like an analysis of the Clinton machine backers to determine if they are the new K Street players.

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This whole post sounds to me like the second-hand opinion of Greg's source among Hillary's big donors (the same folks who sent the whiny letters to Dean and Pelosi). Note there are no quotes from any supers themselves, only the opinion of one of the donors imparting his hearsay impression of what elected supers will need - the big donor's money. Greg rightly points out that it may be a consideration, but even if that's true, it's only one of many, and certainly not as important as Hillary's negatives, delegate count, and Obama's 50-state strategy.

I am sure this has been linked elsewhere, but it is a must-read, and slightly relevant to this post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-j-andrew/on-my-switch-from-clinton_b_99621.html

This was a heart-felt post from Mr. Andrew. Took guts. The most telling line was his opinion that a vote for Sen Clinton is a vote to extend a divisive and destructive process. Not the voting, mind you, but Sen Clinton's detatchment from reality to which he so politely referred.

That he did it without slamming the Clintons shows other super dels how they can approach the problem with success. When Clair McCaskill says Obama has back-pocket supers just waiting to endorse, I believe her. Only 21 would give him the lead there as well. Next Wednesday, I predict. Plus, most the NC House delegation is likely to endorse as well.

Gov Easley's endorsement was weak. He's out after this year, has zero political risk, and a poor polticial machine. He's no Ed Rendell, not by a mile.

Soon, it will all be over. Supers jumping ship now cannot be misunderestimated [sic.].

Pax,
M.

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Another gutsy pol, with Obama supporters having his back

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/30/10574/4557

Well, perhaps those superdelegates ought to consider that Obama supporters ponied up 20K in 24 hours for Chandler in Kentucky after he started taking heat for endorsing Obama.

It's a shame that other superdelegates evidently don't have the same backbone as Chandler.

Yup!

Supers are noticing these things. Trust me.

It's why they're really all coming out for Obama.

It's not just about attracting independents, it's about the $$$ and that includes the grassroots $$$ that this example shows.

The big party donors are losing their grip and they're freaking. Some supers might still be listening, but those numbers a dwindling.

Aye and indeed. You describe one more way in which this has already been a change election. After the ABC debate debacle, we had insights online within an hour, analysis that would have been impossible in past cycles until it was far too late. Gibson and Stephanopolis have had their reps tarnished; this would never have happened in the past, either.

The midas touch will get Obama elected. Green is the color super dels see.

Pax,
M.

Wouldn't you have thought that Greg's analysis might have found some room at least to hint at the different roles his "big money" folks play in the campaigns of the two nominees?

Major donors? Ha!

After Cliton donors threatened her & the DCCC & threatened Hoards Dean with their "big money", the netroots swept in and pumped hundreds of thousands of dollars into the DCCC& The DNC and Nancy, Harry & other top Dems the days of these individual power whores deciding our fates a la the DLC are no longer the ones with the financial power.

The people are.

It's why Nancy didn't back down nor did Howard Dean.

The DLC is dead, long live the Democratic Party.

God, I sound illiterate in that post. Oy! Emotions. Emotions. Emotions.

Got to proof read before clicking 'send'

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I'm not sure this is convincing, joshuablog.

It's a question of costs and benefits. The cost of endorsing either candidate right now is alienating some portion of your voters and donors. That's true whether it's 10% or 90% of those whose support you need. It's still a cost.

The benefits are a lot murkier. Sure, it's good for the party, but not too many folks are willing to put the party's interests ahead of their own. And yes, they may have their back scratched someday by the nominee, but that's probably true even if they wait until June (indeed, they may have more leverage then).

So from a standpoint of expedience, it may well not make sense to endorse - there are costs, whatever their size, but the benefits are dubious.

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Really? Because I haven't seen any numbers and I checked as best I could. How many hundreds of thousands of dollars and could you provide a link to those figures.?

Given how some of Hillary's big funders have channeled their inner Tony Soprano and threatened Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi, I imagine this is a real phenomenon and perhaps the reason why more SDs have not yet broken for Obama. Hopefully, Joe Andrew's switch today will help break that dam.

Greg, Please tell me you haven't just figured this out. Every time a party leader says the Superdelegates should start deciding, the big money Clinton backers raise hell and start making not-too-thinly-veiled threats. But the cracks in the dam are apparent and endorsements are starting to trickle out. Unless Clinton pulls off the mother of all upsets next week, by next Wednesday the trickle will begin turning into a torrent.

He said he'd been meaning to post about it . . .

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Musings but not assertions:

It appears to me that it would be impossible for Hillary to defeat John McCain because of how she configured her nomination campaign strategy.

She started her campaign with the assumption that the liberal wing of the party was captive to her, and that she did not have to cater to it in order to gain the nomination. That freed her up to run a right of center primary season effort. She is still doing so, with her Shot and a Beer, and her Duck shooting, and Sniper defying pandering.

Hillary did not foresee the rise of Senator Obama, and especially his huge support among progressives. She had calculated that he would draw strong support from the African American community, as did Rev. Jackson, but she could afford to ignore that, since she could count on them to support her in the general election.

Then Iowa changed everything. Senator Obama won in a state with scarcely any African American voters.
Hillary had lost a large portion of progressive white voters to Senator Obama.

Hillary had painted herself into a corner. She had to rely on right of center voters to bail her out. She can not move back to the left during the remainder of the nomination campaign.

That means, should Hillary get the nomination, she does not have either the African American or the progressive base of the party safely locked up which would allow her to run as a centrist during the general election.

She would have to cater to progressives, in general, and the African American community in order to try and win back their support. That would leave her unable to run in the middle, and that would cost her the support of most Independents, and would make her easy picking for the Republicans to paint as being out of the mainstream.

In a Nutshell:

What Hillary did, was try to run her general election campaign during the primary season, instead of courting the progressive base of the party, and then running as a moderate in the general campaign. That fatal mistake has made her completely unelectable in November.
If she tried to continue to run to the right of center, the progressive base will stayed alienated from her, but if she moves back to the left, McCain would be able to run as a centrist, and Hillary would get massacred.

Just my musing on where I think Hillary made a fatal mistake at the outset, which reflects very poorly on her leadership talent level.

Well-said. No more obliteratti.

No, Hillary could win the General election, as could any democrat this side of Kucinich or Gravel. The fundamentals are not going to change.

The real race to determine the future of the country is going on right now, and Hillary is losing.

Yeah, all they care about is getting reelected.

Obama should keep bribing them with the money you sent him.

You deserve mcwar not the Clintons.

Bitter, table for one...

Yeah, those power hungry bastards. They should totally learn when its time to sacrifice their own burning ambition to the good of the party and the nation, like Hillary has.

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Yep, bribe with actual voters' money rather than big wealthy corporate backers' money. Wonder what the paybacks are supposed to be........ a future agenda for the voters or the big guys?

They still don't get it, do they? Obama is like the Bureau of Engraving and Printing -- he can make all the money he wants, for himself and for other candidates. Grassroots, Netroots -- you name it. Look at all the money raised in several hours for Ben Chandler, just due to the activists at DK?

Here's a fun link -- compare the traffic to Hillary's Web site against that to Obama's:

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/hillaryclinton.com

Someone in here posted a link that I can't find now, which is also great. It compares the three candidates fundraising in terms of how many donors there are at the $4600 level, the $2300 level and $200 or under. Clinton runs away with the big donors, but Obama smashes both her and McCain on smaller donors, and we've all seen what that means in terms of ongoing, reliable cash advantage.

So, superdels shouldn't worry their pretty little heads about those big donors.

Add to this that Obama's money machine is really still only in second gear. He can raise raise raise, and that wealth will spill downhill once the nominee is chosen.

Into the reelection coffers of uncommitteed super dels, for example...

Pax,
M.

Very true. I suggest all campaign watchers frequenting this site keep tabs on www.mrsuper.org as well to get an insider's perspective.

TPM-EC should be doing that as well.

I found it quite interesting that Mr Super seemed truly surprised by the Andrew switch; shocked might better define his reaction. He seemed much more convinced prior to yesteday that the inside, and undeclared, game was pretty well settled. It wouldn't surprise me to see a major move by SD's before the end of next week to break the logjam.

This is the time of year when candidates are defined for the GE. John Kerry was defined as a flip-flopper by ads run in April 2004. So the insiders know that its time to get off the fence and jump in soon or it will be too late to nail McCain and make the job of winning the GE that much more difficult. The window to effectively define a "hot-tempered McCain" as the wrong person with access to the "football" is rapidly closing.

Some super-dels -- in particular, those who are also current candidates for office -- don't want to pick either Hillary or Obama yet partly because they're reluctant to alienate the major donors who have lined up with the candidate they don't pick. That's because these super-dels are themselves hoping to raise money from those donors for their own campaigns.

Praytell, Greg, how many of those are worried about the "major donors who have lined up with" Obama?

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Hillary has pulled farther ahead of Obama in the Gallup daily tracking. Two weeks ago he was 10 points ahead of her. And there is an interesting inconsistency in Gallup's Jeff Jones comments about it. He describes Hillary's 4 point lead over Obama as "not statistically significant". But later he describes Obama's 4 point deficit against McCain as "statistically significant". Is 4 points statistically significant or not? Perhaps there are different margins of error in the two polls.

Gallup Daily: Clinton 49%, Obama 45%

McCain leads Obama in general election; McCain and Clinton tied

PRINCETON, NJ -- Hillary Clinton has edged ahead of Barack Obama, 49% to 45%, in the latest Gallup Poll Daily tracking update.

The four percentage point Clinton advantage in the April 28-30 polling is not statistically significant, but suggests slight movement in her favor after she and Obama had been tied the previous six days. Obama had held a significant lead over Clinton throughout much of April. The current margin is the biggest in Clinton's favor since March 17-19 polling.

Obama has had a rough few weeks in the campaign, with his widely publicized remarks about "bitter" voters, Clinton's decisive win in the crucial Pennsylvania primary, and renewed media attention to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the controversial former pastor of Obama's church, with Wright speaking out publicly this past week. Obama has also come under criticism from both Clinton and John McCain for opposing a proposal to suspend the federal gasoline tax during the summer months. As a result, Obama has moved from a consistent lead over Clinton to a deficit. Obama has just a few days to reverse the tide going into next Tuesday's Indiana and North Carolina primaries.

The latest general election results show Obama now trailing McCain by a statistically significant 47% to 43% margin among registered voters. Clinton and McCain are now tied in the general election at 46%, as McCain's support in relation to Clinton and Obama has picked up in recent days. -- Jeff Jones

Yeah, the supers should totally move into Hillary's column right this second because she's ahead in the Gallup Daily right this second. They absolutly did the right thing not moving into Obama's column when he was leading in the Gallup Daily for day after day. Hillogic on parade.

Sorry, Otto. These polls really don't say all that much because they do not address the delegate race, or have you missed the fact that Sen Obama has erased most of Sen Clinton's gains in PA?

Polls will not decide this, dear Otto. Super dels will. And they are motivated by another color: green. Who has the midas touch?

Pax,
M.

Amazing, politicians, and Superdelegates no-less, looking out for their own interests.

So glad the future of party rests with these selfless, idealistic types.

I really can't type today. Or any day for that matter. Years spent using a pen and a legal pad put me at a disadvantage.

Just think - in only a few more weeks, the whole process will be over. By this point, I am getting to the stage where I really do not care who wins. The nation will survive regardless of whom we elect. Even McCain will be better than Bush (albeit only just). I will just be so glad when the whole d@#^ farce is finished and we can stop pretending that any of the nonsense which we are presently being fed amounts even to a hill of beans.

We should aspire to more than "surviving".

I'm not nearly as optimistic as you about how much better things will be. If Obama is not the nominee, we will have allowed stupid petty bullshit to interfere with our election process, again.

We will have ennabled incredibly shallow and stupid journalism.

The "Divide/Attack" method of Rove-Clinton will have triumphed, and our country will be the worse for it.

If Clinton is the nominee, we will live through months of replaying the Clinton White House, while millions of demoralized voters flash a collective FU to the Democratic Party.

Yes, our country will survive, but in what kind of shape? Our democratic process will be on life support.

We should aspire to more than surviving.

Unfortuntely, survival is going to be creeping up the agenda as climate change unfolds. America does not possess the financial wherewithall for the ongoing disaster recovery that will be necessary, not with $53 trillion in unfunded liabilites. New Orleans remains largely consumed by the Sea, to say nothing of the hundreds of Gulf Coast towns that will never be rebuilt.

Survival will become quite the accomplishment.

Pax,
M.

Sure, sure. I agree entirely. Still and all, I will be very glad when this is all over - even if, by some outrageous miracle, Clinton were to win.

"By this point, I am getting to the stage where I really do not care who wins."

Unfortunately, that's just what Clinton is counting on.

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Greg,

Put down those bagpipes. They are changing you. You are starting to morph from Mr. Rodgers into groundskeeper Willie.

It is not the pipes. It is this blog. I should walk away from it. The exchanges one has around here are enough to fry brains far less addled than my own.

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Interesting. I just checked, and the Gallup poll which puts Clinton now ahead of Obama by 4 points calls this "not statistically significant", but the poll has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 points. And in the past they have referred to anything beyond the margin of error as "statistically significant".

And if you strain your eyes just so, it might -- just might -- reward your fixation on polls, and cause super dels to defect from Sen Obama and support Sen Clinton in droves.

Call it Squintolitics. And good luck with that.

Pax,
M.

"Squintolitics"--excellent!

As good as buffenbargering.

Any claim that the outstanding superdelegates are delaying for any reason beyond A) Strategic timing for their candidate or B) Cowardice or whatever is obviously false. Super delegates are going to vote based on what's best for them, not the party.

The midas touch is what they think is good for them. The smell of money stays many a hand.

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I've always assumed that the bulk of the super-delegates who haven't announced are, in time, going to be for Obama for one simple reason: the revenge factor. Forget 'alientating donors' as a factor. That pales compared to 'getting on the Clinton's s**t-list'!)

If you are for Hillary, you would get lots of Brownie points with her for standing up now, during a fairly lean time for her. Even if she doesn't win, it's a safe bet that Obama won't go around chopping off the heads of those who previously supported Clinton.

If, on the other hand, you were to support Obama and Clinton was the ultimate winner ..... different story. She might make nice through the general election, but after that, rough sledding. There might be a Democratic administration after Jan. but you, personally, are going to be toast and have no role in it!!

I don't know that I even consider hesitation for this reason cowardice, maybe simply legitimate, practical concern about your own future effectiveness. Who would want the Clintons as sworn enemies *and* in ultimate power?? It might even be concern for the country, wanting to have some chance of giving realistic input if she does become president. I don't really condemn anyone for waiting until it is safe to take the step. It does mean, however, that the many SDs who have come out for Obama have certainly exhibited bravery, sometimes tremendous bravery.

I keep tracking the numbers, watching the 'number needed' (for Obama to clinch the nomination) and comparing it to the number of outstanding superdelegates. Right now he needs a few more than the total number of uncommitted SDs. With an infusion of pledged delegates from next Tuesday's primaries, however, that 'number needed' will become less than the number of uncommitted superdelegates. At some point, the "SD needed" number is going to be so small that a group movement to Obama (perhaps with even some defections from Clinton to Obama) would be entirely "safe" ... because it would simultaneously make Obama the standard-bearer. That, I think, is how it will **finally** end. It's getting closer, and can't happen soon enough.

The nearly 1.5 million donors to Obama 08 should give comfort to those concerned about where their money is going to come from.

Who are these rich donors going to give to when their candidate is out? McCain? Not likely. They're giving money for a reason, not just to be generous. Superdelegates need to get off the fence and show us all that big money is not the driving force in politics.

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Thanks for the insightful post

Some Super-Dels Reluctant To Take Sides Because They Don't Want To Alienate Major Donors

Precisely. Which is why Obama's grassroots support is so important. If he can make the case that millions of small donors are more valuable than thousands of big money donors, he changes the equation completely. Which is why this month's fundraising numbers are so important for Obama. It's his machine versus the machine's machine. I'm rooting for us.

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as a side note, i'm glad the majority of the media did not acknowledge the interviews with both candidates in the past week.

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