Poll: Obama Losing To McCain In Michigan -- But Hillary As VP Might Help
So, would Hillary as veep give Barack Obama a better shot of holding on to the crucial industrial swing state of Michigan? It all depends on which poll you read.
The latest polls of Michigan from SurveyUSA and Michigan-based EPIC-MRA agree that John McCain has a narrow edge over Barack Obama in a pure match-up, with a very high number of undecideds. But testing tickets of McCain with Mitt Romney against Obama and Clinton yields dramatically different results between the two reputable firms:
SurveyUSA
McCain (R) 41%, Obama (D) 37%
McCain/Romney (R) 45%, Obama/Clinton (D) 40%EPIC-MRA
McCain (R) 44%, Obama (D) 40%
Obama/Clinton (D) 51%, McCain/Romney (R) 44%
The EPIC-MRA poll has Hillary bringing an astonishing 11 points into Obama's column, putting him well ahead of McCain in this must-win state. On the other hand, SurveyUSA shows her not really bringing anything at all.

Comments (158)
The EPIC-MRA poll was taken before the RFK comment.
May 29, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Again, means jack shit FIVE MONTHS before the election!!!
May 29, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think this SUSA poll is crap. Here's why:
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/2008/05/why-polls-in-may-even-by-surve.php
May 29, 2008 6:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the "dramatically different results between the two reputable firms" is exactly why this isn't worth the, um, bandwidth it's printed on.
May 29, 2008 1:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Romney as VP?????
ROTFLMAO!!!!
Seriously. We can only hope that Mr. Varmint Hunter is the Veep choice.
May 29, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep, I'd love to see Romney on the ticket.
May 29, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Overall I agree that Romney would be a poor choice for McCain, but he would be a great help to McCain in MI, where the Romney name is still quite popular.
May 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is Michigan really a "must-win" though?
May 29, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think so. 17 electoral votes is a considerable chunk. If we can hang on to everything Kerry won and then add (for instance) Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada (none of which are long shots) then we win where Kerry lost. If we start losing states that Kerry carried, however, then the number of states we need to flip starts to grow. I like our chances in Virginia and Missouri (for instance), but I do not like the idea of having to count on them. If forced to choose between putting the effort into keeping MI or into flipping VA, I would consider the former the more prudent course (although Lord knows that Obama's judgement is more trustworthy than my own).
May 29, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Whoops, I just realized that you probably meant to ask whether MI is a "must-win" for McCain, not Obama. I would say that the answer to that is "no." McCain can definitely win without MI (as Bush proved twice). Indeed, there is almost certainly more to be lost for McCain by choosing Romney than gained, but I was simply pointing out that while Romney's weaknesses outweigh his strengths, one of his strengths is that he would be a help in MI (for whatever that is worth).
May 29, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
If we have to make that choice, we're hosed no matter what we do.
I'd trade Michigan for Ohio, however.
May 29, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes. It is a must win. Michigan is part of the Kerry states.
With Michigan, Obama wins if he gets all of Kerry's states and flips:
one big state (Florida or Ohio), or,
Two medium states (Virginia, North Carolina, Missouri, Colorado, Iowa), or,
One medium state and two to three small states depending on how big the medium and how small the smalls are.
Game it out here:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/ecc/calculator.htm
Without Michigan, the whole thing goes to shit.
That said, the idea that we should pick Hillary for veep solely because of Michigan, and risk the damage she does to us in some of the other states we have to have, based on polling six months out is lunacy.
May 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope to GOD McCain is stupid enough to pick Romney!
Oh, and according to pollster, McCain and Obama are tied in MI.
May 29, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
[pounding forehead bloody on keyboard]
You have got to be fucking kidding me.
Hillary? A Republican - Romney?
This poll is utter bullshit.
May 29, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also, what is EPIC-MRA?
May 29, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'll take a wild guess and say it's just a polling outfit that has generated numbers favorable to Sen. Clinton; hence its sudden elevation of authority here at TPM Election Central
May 29, 2008 2:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
*yawn*
June 2, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
i believe epic-mra is the largest polling outfit in michigan.
June 2, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Let's go over this again...
We have five months left until the election. Once Shrillary is out, everything will shift to him.
Once she is out, states like California, New York, Massachusetts, (possibly) Ohio, (possibly PA), etc. will go to him! Right now there are TWO Democratic candidates...in November, there will be ONE candidate.
Just because Obama lost California in the primary does NOT mean he will lose it in November!
The fact that some people still need to be told this (present company excluded...I'm talking about her supporters) shows just how low America's IQ has dropped over the last eight years.
May 29, 2008 1:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you want to know what the current polls tell us abut November, just go back and look at where Hillary
stood in the National Polls compared to Obama
last December. How did those poll projections
work out. Exactly. Current polls about what will
happen in November are about as credible as some
fairy tale about a Tuzla airport sniper attack.
May 29, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or how about the polls went during the Primaries in 92 (or any other year), before the GE campaign started.
These polls are absurd!
May 29, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, basically, a truthier headline to this item would have been, "Why Eric Kleefeld thinks Hillary should be Obama's Veep."
May 29, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
must-win? Jesus, Eric, biased much?
May 29, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
And, by the way, who's to say that adding Romney to McCain's ticket didn't push that "astonishing 11 points" to Obama?
Not that I admit AT ALL the veracity of a poll I've never fucking heard of!
May 29, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
well, no offense, but I think they manage to be truthy enough.
May 29, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pollster rankings: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/05/pollster-ratings-v311.html
May 29, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting. But more interesting will be seeing polls taken once it is heads up between Obama and McCain. I can't help thinking these numbers are skewed by the fact that Hillary remains in the race.
May 29, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks, I finally bookmarked that site.
May 29, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Enough with the hypotheticals.
May 29, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree totally. Unless it's talk about who Obama is going to pick for VP besides Hillary. That's kinda fun...
May 29, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eric never fails to give us his daily dose of Shrillary spin.
Give it up!
May 29, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just to give you some flavor, the Survey USA poll has McCain getting 26% of the African-American vote. It might help if someone at TPM-EC did a bit of analysis on these polls. I just don't see John McCain getting 26% of the black vote ANYWHERE.
May 29, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Really?
Seriously, though,
thanks for pointing out a result that pretty much calls into question the relevance of this poll.
May 29, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would like to think so, but I think that you will find if you look back over the history of this race that SUSA has had some really quirky internals all along, but manages to get the final outcome fairly right despite that fact. In other words, while I agree that the 25% African-American support for McCain is dubious, I am not sure that this suggests that McCain is not really ahead among MI voters right now.
May 29, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
SurveyUSA got burned on the African-American vote in PA, NC and Indiana. For whatever reason, they seem to overstate Obama's opponents ability to pull the African-American vote. And frankly, McCain hasn't exactly been a "friend" to the African-American community (MLK Day comes immediately to mind).
May 29, 2008 1:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good catch. Too bad Kleefeld was too busy promoting his "Hillary as VP!" spin to, y'know, actually look at the crosstabs.
May 29, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a stupid poll.
Obama can take Michigan alone, other polls have shown this. Michigan is not a problem for Obama.
May 29, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Put Romney on the R ticket and see how they do in the Deep South. Florida and Texas included.
May 29, 2008 1:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary As VP Might Help
No. Non. Nein.
May 29, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too soon, means nothing at this point. I think these polls are silly.
May 29, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
By the way, after going a tad over the top yesterday, I decided I'll resist jumping to conclusions on Eric and Greg's intentions and abilitie.
Thank you for providing both poll results for us to make our own judgement. One poll says Hillary helps and the other polls says she doesn't do a damn thing to help Obama.
Well, each flank can pick their own poll to make a claim.
May 29, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
The more reputable poll says she doesn't do a damn thing...Just sayin'
May 29, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think in the long run to November, she would distract from his message, and actually, with her history, be hurtful to his chances.
May 29, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
The minute Bill Clinton opens his mouth (if Senator Clinton is the veep choice), the media coverage will be wall-to-wall, 24/7, and any message that Obama had would be drowned in the ensuing uproar.
She'd be a drag.
May 29, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
these polls out of MI and FL are bullshit
simply because Obama is only winning 68 some percent of dem voters cause of the delegate fight.
once hill is out and we get this party UNITED then he will be winning 88 some percent and he will be well ahead of McCain in MI and close in FL.
again its a long way to election time. no way MI goes for McCain
May 29, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
"... But Hillary As VP Might Help..."
How do you know what will happen in November?
However, what will help is for this morbid trainwreck to end -- After MT and ID have voted -- Obama will be the nominee and it is up to the SD's and for the Democratic Party leadership to get behind the nominee -- up until that moment the Democrats will continue to be deemed as weak -- hence, I believe, as shown by these polls.
After Tuesday this has to end. JMHO.
May 29, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
or...
...until the Democrats can finally announce, and get behind their nominee, Democrats will be deemed as weak -- This is what I believe is being revealed in these polls.
Note: please can we have the edit function back...
May 29, 2008 1:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not woebegone about our chances in MI, but I do think that both of these polls get an important truth about Michigan - the democratic party brand there is badly tarnished right now. For better or worse, Gov Granholm and Sens Levin and Stabenow have not been able to reverse Michigan's rapidly declining fortunes. Add to this that Kwame Kilpatrick keeps re-appearing in the news (never for good reasons) and you have a state very well poised to buck the democratic wave sweeping the rest of the nation. Moreover, John McCain is a very strong candidate to ride that wave in MI. An important portion of the electorate in MI is made up of Vietnam vets who greatly admire McCain as a former POW. Obama will need to spend a great deal of time and effort on MI, because we need to keep it in our column this time around and it is not a foregone conclusion that it will stay there.
May 29, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I would think that the Kwame Kilpatrick saga would be over before the fall, so that perhaps might help.
But more generally: why would a state in such an economic tailspin vote for a candidate who admitted he didn't know much about the economy? A phrase that will, no doubt, be repeated ad infinitum once the general election gets going. And why would a state vote for a Republican brand when the economy is in the toilet?
May 29, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
SurveyUSA has McCain winning 26% of the African-American vote.
May 29, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
SurveyUSA is a pretty good outfit, but that's silly.
May 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
All I can say is he'd better pick her for his VP. There's a whole lot of mess coming, and he's going to have to pull the Democrats together in a hurry. The Jeremiah Wright mess isn't over yet by any means. A quick glance at the recent video of all those black parishioners at Obama's church waving their arms and shouting approval as the guest preacher dredges up slavery and blames white America tells you what kind of divisiveness to expect this Fall.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Mocking_Hillary_at_Trinity.html
May 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean the white, Catholic priest guest preacher?
How's Randi Rhodes on Air America these days, anyway?
May 29, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary has got her Marc Rich and all the other shady characters that haven't surfaced yet...
Stuff that comes out during the VP vetting process ... Stuff which I'm sure as a Hillary supporter you would like to remain behind closed doors?
May 29, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
haha, is that the best you got?
May 29, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unless Wright bleached his skin a la Michael Jackson, I think you just prematurely ejaculated in your pants.
May 29, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, this could damage him with the hardworking, White Americans who weren't voting for him in the first place. Oh wait...
May 29, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
they blame white america for slavery? the nerve!
May 29, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
next thing you know, holy joe will blame the holocaust on the nazis! no, i guess that wouldn't happen -- he knows hitler was god's hunter, necessary to get the jews to the promised land. at least that's what he'll say at hagee's party.
May 29, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!
Two extremely well done comments.
May 29, 2008 2:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Otto: OMG, take a breath. This is just so silly. Have a beer :)
May 29, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, Eric, Eric, Eric...I know it's hard to let go. The Hillary ride has been exhilarating, I'm sure. But, it is coming to an end. You're going to have to accept that. It's time.
May 29, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn it, no. That is not what this poll says. All this poll says it that given their sampling constraints they can't tell who's in the lead. That's it. Based solely on this poll it's a 50/50 toss up who is actually ahead. I'm going to start mailing journalists stat textbooks.
May 29, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe you should write a blog post and explain it.
May 29, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
f you want to know what the current polls tell us about November, just go back and look at where Hillary stood in the National Polls, compared to Obama, last December. How did those poll projections work out. Exactly. Current polls about what will happen in November are about as credible as some Fairy Tale about a Tuzla airport sniper attack.
May 29, 2008 1:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Of course, they want President Clinton.
Count their votes, democracy haters.
May 29, 2008 1:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nancy Pelosi sez NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
May 29, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nancy Pelosi is walking on some very thin ice here in San Francisco. A group of very influential women here recently got together over $400K for Clinton support.
May 29, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
400K??
Only $19.6 million to go!
May 29, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
May 29, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
!
May 29, 2008 2:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your avatar is the word "OWNED" plastered over an African-American man's photo. Are you just a bit dim or are you 100% Appalachian?
May 29, 2008 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aww. That's so cute.
Yes! She's winning the popular vote... in your mind.
May 29, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another example of how we are making it easy for the Terrorists to claim that we are in Iraq as "Crusaders".
Someone please ask Senator Bush McCain why we are still doing such stupid things as this:
Iraqis claim Marines are pushing Christianity in Fallujah
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/38820.html
Excerpt:
FALLUJAH, Iraq — At the western entrance to the Iraqi city of Fallujah Tuesday, Muamar Anad handed his residence badge to the U.S. Marines guarding the city. They checked to be sure that he was a city resident, and when they were done, Anad said, a Marine slipped a coin out of his pocket and put it in his hand.
Out of fear, he accepted it, Anad said. When he was inside the city, the college student said, he looked at one side of the coin. "Where will you spend eternity?" it asked.
He flipped it over, and on the other side it read, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16."
"They are trying to convert us to Christianity," said Anad, a Sunni Muslim like most residents of this city in Anbar province. At home, he told his story, and his relatives echoed their disapproval: They'd been given the coins, too, he said.
May 29, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
If members of the military are not allowed to be politically active, how come they are allowed to proselytize?
May 29, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not big on the TPM bashing but the editorial on here is not too bright.
a) Obama has spent a day in MI whereas Clinton is a household name.
b) MI is in the midst of a delegate fight - which Obama is unfortunately on the correct side of but not if you are a MI voter.
Clinton may help at the moment in MI but she will be downright toxic in WI, IA, CO, VA, GA, IN etc.
May 29, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's not going to lose Michigan, unless possibly if Romney is the VP. And even then I doubt it.
May 29, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pol Pot 44%, Mandela 40% (see footnote 1)
Mandela/Thatcher 51%, Pol Pot/Mugabe 44%
(1) Please note that some Thatcher supporters may have voted for Pol Pot in protest in the initial match-up, in protest of the perceived unfair treatment of their candidate during the Mandela vs. Thatcher primary contest.
May 29, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama Losing To McCain In Michigan -- But Hillary As VP Might Help
It will also help when she gets out of the race. At the current time, there are apparently some substantial number of Democratic Hillary Clinton supporters who are telling pollsters, for whatever reason, that they prefer McCain in an Obama-McCain head-to-head. I think any sensible observer recognizes this is predominantly a temporary effect caused by the extreme polarization wrought by the primary campaign, and that once Clinton has suspended her campaign, the vast majority of these Democratic voters will settle down, and return to the fold.
Let's see these poll numbers again, three weeks after Clinton gets out of the race. I expect to see a 5% Obama surge, at least, in most states.
May 29, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama Fares Well With Key Voting Blocs The AP reports Obama "is competing strongly against" McCain "for women, Catholics and other groups that have shunned him in the Democratic primaries but will be pivotal in this fall's presidential race, early polling shows." Besides "women and Catholics, these include the elderly, the less educated and suburbanites, leading" primary rival Hillary Clinton "to argue she is her party's stronger candidate." But polls "this month show" Obama "leading McCain among women, running even among Catholics and suburbanites and trailing with people over age 65."
The Wall Street Journal reports for the "first time since the presidential election of 1988, the observant white Catholic vote might be up for grabs this November." The shift "may be bad news for" McCain, "but "it also poses a challenge for Sen. Barack Obama in some critical swing states where a majority of Catholic voters supported Sen. Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primaries."
And in a New York Times op-ed, Democratic pollster Mark Mellman says, "Democrats running for president have been losing white, non-college-educated voters since before Mr. Obama was elected to the Illinois legislature." Al Gore "lost them by 17 percentage points while winning the national popular vote," and John Kerry "lost them by 23 points and the country by fewer than two and a half points." By comparison, Obama "is only two percentage points behind John McCain among these voters in the latest New York Times/CBS News poll."
from U.S. News.com
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_080529.htm
May 29, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Catholics are up for grabs.....
Tim Kaine for VP!!!
May 29, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
My mom is Catholic, and there is no way in hell she will vote for Obama, all because of the abortion thing. McCain is actually worse than Bush in Roe v. Wade, from what I have garnered.
May 29, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton won't help Obama at all with the pro-life vote either.
May 29, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, she might like what Tim Kaine has to say....
"I have a faith-based opposition to abortion. As governor, I will work in good faith to reduce abortions by:
1. Enforcing the current Virginia restrictions on abortion and passing an enforceable ban on partial birth abortion that protects the life and health of the mother;
2. Fighting teen pregnancy through abstinence-focused education;
3. Ensuring women's access to health care (including legal contraception) and economic opportunity; and
4. Promoting adoption as an alternative for women facing unwanted pregnancies.
We should reduce abortion in this manner, rather than by criminalizing women and doctors. Too often politicians are interested in scoring political points, rather than in reducing the number of abortions. Many of the legislative proposals introduced in the General Assembly, like the ones to require unnecessary building standards for doctor's offices that perform abortions, are just political grandstanding. They encourage division and lawsuits rather than contributing to the goal of reducing abortions."
Not my personal stance, but one that could help win the election. What do you think your mom think of a stance like that?
May 29, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
For what little this one particular Catholic's opinion is worth, I love Tim Kaine. That said, I am already a far-gone Obama supporter, so he ought not to choose a VP in order to get my vote.
May 29, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
OK. Eric.
Obama will pick Hillary as his VP for the state of Michigan.
Are you happy now ?
Now, can he pick someone else for other 49 states ?
May 29, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you read between the lines ..... the polls show that Obama likely will not win Michgian unless Hillary is is VP.... also if you read between the lines... it shows that he would likely lose the state of michigan if they had a re-vote primary between hillary and obama... it also shows that if obama's name would have been on the ballot, hillary still would have likely won.....
all you have to do is read between the lines....
the math adds up too:)
I hope hillary uses this poll to her advantage come this saturday... as to why they should allow the delegates to be seated 100% with full vote power......
GO HILLARY!!!!!!!!!!
Obama sure is going to lose the general election.... all of you who want him to win.... show me, how he is going to win the general election... i can't see it.... :(
May 29, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
you can't see that Hillary lost the primary race.
Attempting to show you anything is futile.
May 29, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
.
May 29, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
!
May 29, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
More mood stabilizers, please.
May 29, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
I admire your enthusiasum, HC08, but am compelled to point out that Hillary's chances of winning a revote in Michigan have absolutely nothing to do with the validity of the vote conducted in January?
The rules violation happened independent of the voting results and one has no impact on the other.
May 29, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
You can't see a lot of things, HillaryClinton08, and your babbling yesterday about "HUSSEIN HUSSEIN HUSSEIN!!!!" revealed that you're not as "sweet" as everyone around here thought you were.
May 29, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
i can't see it.... :(
This is the crux of your problem. She lost after Super Tuesday.
May 29, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perhaps you should get your ass out there and work on his behalf. I mean if you think he's at such a risk of losing. Or is it all about Hillary and no one else?
May 29, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good point. It seems to me that the time for playing up Obama's negatives is past. Any democrat with concerns about Obama at this point should be working to overcome them rather than grousing about them.
May 29, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
Two points,
1) I have a hard time following how you arrive at any concusions vis-a-vis Clinton from this poll at all. There is just nothing here to indicate how Clinton would do at all because her name just was not included in the presidential match-ups.
2) Neither SUSA nor EPIC-MRA included Clinton in these most recent match-ups. However, in the last round which each did, Clinton vs McCain was an option, and both of these outfits found that Clinton does even more poorly against McCain than Obama does. As such, it is hard to see how this poll might bolster Clinton's case to the supers.
May 29, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary would be a shitty VP, and she'd hate the job. Can you imagine her playing second fiddle to Obama? Seriously, the job sucks. Why would she want it?
Hillary could be the first female liberal lion of the Senate. She could be the next governor of New York. She could even be a Supreme Court justice. She just can't be the first woman president. Because she lost.
May 29, 2008 11:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why again are we parsing random polls months before the election, before either candidate has a running mate and before the Democratic party has coalesced around its nominee?
It seems Andrew Golis's tut-tutting admonition that people should quit posting diaries/comments arguing against Clinton could equally apply to his fellow officemates who daily post the latest irrelevant polls and whispered sweet-nothings from Harold Ickes.
May 29, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
What else is there really to talk about in politics now?
May 29, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
the war, the economy, how we have to defeat John McCain, how more and more people are plunging from the middle class to povery, there's a big global warming vote next week....
May 29, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who wants to talk about issues when you can talk about process!
May 29, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink