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Pew: Obama Losing White Working Class Dems To Hillary In Landslide

Barack Obama is suffering a serious erosion in his support among white working class Dem primary voters, the new Pew Research poll finds.

A month ago, Hillary held a 50%-40% advantage among white Democratic voters with a high school degree or less. Today, after the Pennsylvania result and the latest flare-up by Jeremiah Wright, it's a 65%-25% win for Hillary among this same group.

Among white Dems making less than $50,000 per year, Hillary leads 58%-34%, up from a 47%-45% lead a month ago.

Pew still has Obama ahead in a statistical dead heat with a 47%-45% lead, but that's down from his 49%-39% lead last month. (Sample size: 651 Democratic voters and Dem-leaners. Margin of error: ±4.5%)

On the other hand, this poll has another piece of information that would show Obama to be at least as strong a general-election candidate as Hillary: He wins 52% of independents against John McCain, while she wins only 44%. The actual top-lines are very similar:

Clinton (D) 49%, McCain (R) 45%
Obama (D) 50%, McCain (R) 44%

Sample size: 1,323 registered voters. Margin of error: ±3%

This runs counter to earlier polls from Fox News and the Associated Press, which showed Hillary doing better than Obama against McCain among independents.


370 Comments

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Well done, Clinton campaign. You've successfully poisoned the chances of the legitimate candidate of your party this time around. Kudos!

I'll be voting against you again in 2012.

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No doubt.

I'll even contribute to her primary challenger in NY, regardless of who it is.

He did it to himself.

He should have waited at least 4 years before running for president. He was pushed out too early. Too much garbage from the hood, and too little accomplishment to surpass it.

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Why is it I can't respond to Present? Does he have a block on or something?

Yeah I can't respond either...but

Present you said "He should have waited at least 4 years before running for president. He was pushed out too early. Too much garbage from the hood, and too little accomplishment to surpass it."

In 4, 8, 12, 16, 20 years he will still be a Black man in America, so time won't make a bit of a difference in the minds of bigots like you. What are you talking about "garbage from the hood"? What "hood" is Obama from? Your racism is showing.

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Obama has spent more time in elected office than hillary has, and has accomplished far more.

BS.

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He has serve in the IL State senate

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No, just the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r10K7951gPg

Ethics and Lobbying Reform
Throughout his political career, Barack Obama has been a leader in fighting for open and honest government. During his first year as an Illinois State Senator, he helped lead the fight to pass Illinois' first ethics reform bill in 25 years as a U.S. Senator, he has spearheaded the effort to clean up Washington in the wake of the Jack Abramoff scandal.

Senator Obama is one of the authors of the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act (S. 2180). The bill would lengthen the cooling off period to two years for lawmakers and staff who seek to become lobbyists, and it would require immediate disclosure as soon as any job negotiations begin. The bill would open conference committee meetings to the public and require that all bills be posted on the Internet for 24 hours before they can be voted on by the Senate. Finally, the bill would end all lobbyist-funded gifts, meals, and travel and strengthen the Senate office that monitors lobbyist disclosure forms.

In addition, Senator Obama has sponsored three other ethics-related bills:

The Congressional Ethics Enforcement Commission Act (S. 2259)
The bill would create an outside ethics commission to receive complaints from the public on alleged ethics violations by members of Congress, staff, and lobbyists. The commission would have the authority to investigate complaints and present public findings of fact about possible violations to the House and Senate Ethics Committee and Justice Department. By taking the initial fact finding out of the hands of members of Congress, who are often reluctant to investigate their colleagues, the bill ensures prompt and fair disposition of public complaints.

To avoid manipulation of the commission for political purposes, any person filing a complaint that they knew to be false would be subject to a fine and/or imprisonment. No complaints could be filed against a member of Congress for 30 days before a primary election and 60 days before a general election.

The bill has been widely endorsed by reform groups. According to Common Cause, "this legislation would do more to reform ethics and lobbying than any other piece of legislation introduced thus far because it goes to the heart of the problem: enforcement." Public Citizen praised Senator Obama "for having the courage to challenge the business-as-usual environment on Capitol Hill and introduce far-reaching legislation." Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington stated: "This is the first bill that deals seriously with the lack of oversight and enforcement in the existing congressional ethics process. . . . This bill will help restore Americans' confidence in the integrity of Congress.

The Transparency and Integrity in Earmarks Act (S. 2261)
The bill would shed light on the almost 16,000 earmarks that were included in spending bills in 2005. Under the bill, all earmarks, including the name of the requestor and a justification for the earmark, would have to be disclosed 72 hours before they could be considered by the full Senate. Senators would be prohibited from advocating for an earmark if they have a financial interest in the project or earmark recipient. And, earmark recipients would have to disclose to an Office of Public Integrity the amount that they have spent on registered lobbyists and the names of those lobbyists.

The Curtailing Lobbyist Effectiveness through Advance Notification, Updates, and Posting Act (The CLEAN UP Act) (S. 2179)
The bill aims to improve public access to information about all legislation, including conference reports and appropriations legislation, in particular after hurried, end-of-session negotiations. Conference committee meetings and deliberations would have to be open to the public or televised, and conference reports would have to identify changes made to the bill from the House and Senate versions. Finally, no bill could be considered by the full Senate unless the measure has been made available to all Senators and the general public on the Internet for at least 72 hours.

Health Care
The United States is one of the wealthiest nations in the world, yet more than 45 million Americans have no health insurance. Too many hard-working Americans cannot afford their medical bills, and thus, health-related issues are the number one cause for personal bankruptcy. Too many employers are finding it difficult to offer the coverage their employees need.

Promoting affordable, accessible, and high-quality health care was a priority for Barack Obama in the Illinois State Senate and is a priority for him in the United States Senate. He believes firmly that health care should be a right for everyone, not a privilege for the few.

Medicare

Senator Obama is a cosponsor of the Medicare Informed Choice Act (S. 1841), which would extend enrollment without penalty until the end of 2006. This bill would also allow all Part D beneficiaries to change their plan once during 2006.

Improving Quality of Health Care
Senator Obama is pursuing legislative initiatives to help improve health care quality.

He helped draft and introduce the National MEDiC Act (S. 1784), which promotes patient safety initiatives, including early disclosure and compensation to patients injured by medical errors. He also introduced the Hospital Quality Report Card Act (S. 2359), which will use federal hospital quality reporting requirements to inform and assist patients and other consumers in making their health care decisions.

Senator Obama strongly believes that greater use of health information technology can contain costs and improve the efficiency of our health care system. He introduced the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program Efficiency Act (S. 2247), which would leverage the federal government's purchasing power to encourage increased adoption of technology by participating health plans.

Avian Flu
Avian influenza - or bird flu - is a potentially grave health threat to the U.S. and other countries around the world. Senator Obama was an early leader in bringing this problem before Congress and pushing for greater funding to improve preparedness.

Starting in March 2005, he obtained $25 million for international efforts to combat the avian flu and called for an inter-agency task force to immediately address this issue. This funding is now being used to mitigate the effects of the pandemic in Southeast Asia.

Senator Obama introduced the Attacking Viral Influenza Across Nations Act (S. 969), which calls for collaboration and cooperation at the state, national, and international level to ensure preparedness in the event of pandemic influenza. Such preparedness includes the procurement of antivirals, development of effective vaccines, and improvement of the public health infrastructure and medical surge capacity in hospitals.

Senator Obama also worked to push $7.9 billion through the Senate to help the U.S. prepare for the possibility of an avian flu pandemic.

Environmental Health
Senator Obama is deeply concerned with the hazards of lead poisoning. Almost 400,000 children have elevated blood lead levels, including many in Illinois. Over the past year, one of his legislative priorities has been highlighting the problems associated with elevated blood lead levels in children. As a member of the Environment and Public Works Committee, Senator Obama pressured the Environmental Protection Agency to issue long overdue rules for home remodeling and renovation that could prevent 28,000 lead-related illnesses each year, resulting in an annual net economic benefit of more than $4 billion.

In 2005, Senator Obama introduced the Lead Free Toys Act (S. 2048), requiring the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to ban any children's product containing lead.

He also introduced the Healthy Communities Act (S. 2047) to identify and address problems in communities that are at high risk from environmental contaminants. In addition, recognizing the contribution of housing, parks, trails, roadways, and public transportation to healthy lifestyles, Senator Obama introduced the Healthy Places Act (S. 2506) to assess and support improvements to the built environment.

Genomics
Genomics is the study of how a person's genetic makeup affects propensity for disease and response to treatment. Research in this area has the potential to predict which people will get sick, diagnose illnesses earlier, and screen patients to determine which drugs will be safe and effective. In August 2006, Senator Obama introduced the Genomics and Personalized Medicine Act of 2006 (S. 3822), which would increase funding for research on genomics, expand the genomics workforce, provide a tax credit for the development of diagnostic tests that can improve the safety or effectiveness of drugs, and reaffirm the need to protect genetic privacy.


Environment
Lead
Since coming to Washington, Senator Obama has made the elimination of childhood lead poisoning one of his top priorities.

Lead is also present in many children's products. In 2003 and 2004, nearly 150 million pieces of toy jewelry were recalled because of toxic levels of lead. To address this problem, Senator Obama introduced the Lead-Free Toys Act (S. 2048) to require the Consumer Product Safety Commission to ban any children's product containing lead.

Senator Obama is also an original cosponsor of the Home Lead Safety Tax Credit Act (S. 2053), which would provide tax credits to property owners who eliminate or contain paint hazards in homes where low-income young children or women of child-bearing age live.

Great Lakes
The Great Lakes store one-fifth of the world's surface water, and Lake Michigan alone provides drinking water for an estimated six million residents in Illinois. The Great Lakes are also important for recreation, transportation, and economic development. To preserve this national treasure, Senator Obama has been a strong supporter of the Great Lakes Regional Collaboration and is a cosponsor of the Great Lakes Environmental Restoration Act (S. 508).

One of the greatest threats facing the Great Lakes is aquatic invasive species. Senator Obama was successful in ensuring that Illinois receives adequate federal funding to operate a barrier to prevent Asian carp from entering Lake Michigan and disrupting the balance of the lake's ecosystem.

Global Climate Change
In addition to protecting the quality of the air we breathe, Senator Obama believes the U.S. needs to do more to reduce the emissions of greenhouse gases that contribute to climate change. He is a cosponsor of the Climate Stewardship and Innovation Act (S. 1151), which was introduced by Senators McCain and Lieberman.

Mercury

Sampling conducted by the Tribune showed surprisingly high levels of mercury concentrations in freshwater and saltwater fish purchased in the Chicago area. The Tribune series also reported on how existing programs at the Food and Drug Administration and EPA have failed to adequately test and evaluate mercury levels in fish.

To address this problem, Senator Obama introduced two bills - the Mercury Market Minimization Act (S. 3627) and the Missing Mercury in Manufacturing Monitoring and Mitigation Act (S. 3631) . These bills would significantly reduce the amount of mercury that is deposited in oceans, lakes, and rivers, which in turn would reduce the amount of mercury in fish.

Destroying Surplus and Unguarded Conventional Weapons

After visiting weapons stockpiles in Russia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan, Senators Lugar and Obama introduced S. 2566, which would expand the cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons. The Lugar-Obama bill would energize the U.S. program against unsecured lightweight anti-aircraft missiles and other conventional weapons and would strengthen the ability of America's allies to detect and interdict illegal shipments of weapons and materials of mass destruction. Funding would be provided to eliminate unsecured conventional weapons and assist countries in improving their ability to detect and interdict materials and weapons of mass destruction.

Health Care
Senator Obama successfully passed legislation in the Senate to force the Pentagon to work towards an efficient electronic medical records system that will help ensure better care for our nation's troops. It is Senator Obama's goal for each separating service member to receive a secure electronic copy of his or her military and medical records at the time of discharge to smooth the transition to the Department of Veterans' Affairs health care system.

Traumatic Brain Injury
As a member of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee, Senator Obama has been tracking the high incidence of Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) among the veterans returning home from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. TBI is being called the signature injury of the Iraq war. Often caused by the shock wave of improvised explosive devices, TBI can result in permanent brain damage. In order to ensure that these returning heroes receive appropriate medical attention, Senator Obama passed legislation in the Senate that requires all soldiers to be assessed for Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) after they return from deployments.

Emergency Preparedness
In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, Senator Obama introduced legislation to prevent another tragedy in which the poor and elderly are left behind during a natural disaster or terrorist attack. His proposal, which was included in the recent port security law, requires states and localities to have emergency evacuation plans in place that take into account the special needs of senior citizens.

Fighting the Spread of Methamphetamines
Senator Obama cosponsored the Combat Meth Act (S. 103) which provides more money for fighting methamphetamines, tightens up control on the sale of meth ingredients, and provides assistance to children of meth abusers. The legislation would limit access to cold medicines containing pseudoephedrine, the primary ingredient used to make methamphetamine. This bill passed the Senate on September 15, 2005, and was signed into law.

Senator Obama has supported greater funding to fight meth through the use of Byrne Justice Assistance Grants. The Byrne Grant program provides important funding to many local Illinois law enforcement groups. For example, the Southern Illinois Enforcement Group (SIEG), a meth taskforce that polices 31 Illinois counties, pays for 5 of its 12 agents through Byrne grants. During Senate consideration of the Department of Justice funding bill, Senator Obama cosponsored an amendment to raise Byrne funding to $900 million in 2006; the amendment passed the Senate.

Support for Local Law Enforcement
Senator Obama has been a strong supporter of efforts to increase funding and support for our local law enforcement. He supported the reauthorization of the Community Oriented Policing Services (COPS) program in the 109th Congress (PL 109-162) and supports efforts to increase COPS funding. The COPS program provides local law enforcement funding for: (1) hiring and training law enforcement officers; (2) procuring equipment and support systems (3) paying officers to perform intelligence, anti-terror, or homeland security duties; and (4) developing new technologies, including interoperable communications and forensic technology. Since 1994, the COPS program has funded more than 5,800 additional police officers and sheriffs deputies in Illinois and over $45 million in crime fighting technology assistance.

Sex Offenders
Senator Obama cosponsored Dru's Law (S. 792) which creates a nationwide sex offender database and requires greater monitoring of sex offenders upon their release from prison. The bill passed the Senate on July 28, 2005.

He also cosponsored the Sex Offender Registration and Notification Act. This bill increases the penalties for sex crimes against children under the age of 12, and creates a national Internet site known as the National Sex Offender Public Registry. The bill will also provide grants to local law enforcement to assist in preventing and investigating sex crimes against minors.

Violence Against Women Act
Senator Obama cosponsored extension of Violence Against Women Act (S. 1197), which passed the Senate on October 4, 2005, and was signed into law. The Act provides increased funds to law enforcement to combat violence against women. It also establishes a sexual assault services program and provides grants for education programs to prevent domestic violence and encourage reporting of abuses.

Security for Federal Judges
After the horrific murder of an Illinois federal judge's mother and husband, Senator Obama and Senator Durbin worked together to beef up security at our federal courthouses. The Illinois senators secured $12 million to improve security for federal judges. Senator Obama also joined Senator Durbin in requesting a Government Accountability Office investigation into additional steps that can be taken to protect judges.

The Senate Immigration Bill
Senator Obama played a key role in the crafting of the immigration reform bill that the Senate passed in May 2006. The bill, which President Bush supports, would provide more funds and technology for border security and prevent employers from skirting our laws by hiring illegal immigrants. The bill also would provide immigrants who are now contributing and responsible members of society an opportunity to remain in the country and earn citizenship. But not all illegal immigrants would be guaranteed the right to remain in the U.S. under this proposal; they would first have to pay a substantial fine and back taxes, learn English, satisfy a work requirement, and pass a criminal background check.

Senator Obama offered three amendments that were included in the Senate bill. The first amendment strengthens the requirement that a job be offered at a prevailing wage to American workers before it is offered to a guestworker. The second amendment makes it simple, but mandatory, for employers to verify that their employees are legally eligible to work in the United States. And the third amendment authorizes $3 million a year for the FBI to improve the speed and accuracy of the background checks required for immigrants seeking to become citizens.


Chemical Plant Security
Senator Obama, working with Senator Lautenberg, introduced tough legislation to drastically improve security at our nation's chemical plants. The Chemical Safety and Security Act (S. 2486) would establish a clear set of federal regulations that all plants must follow. Plants that are considered a high risk to large population areas or critical infrastructure would face more stringent standards. The bill requires chemical facilities to take steps to enhance security, including improving barriers, containment, mitigation, and safety training, and, where possible, using safer technology, such as less toxic chemicals or safer procedures.

Transit Security
Senator Obama is deeply concerned about the safety of the millions of Americans who use our nation's public transportation systems everyday. Unfortunately, non-aviation security has been under-funded since the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, and our subways and buses remain vulnerable. Only days after the July 2005 bombings in London, England, Senator Obama cosponsored and voted for an amendment that would have increased rail and transit security by $1.2 billion. Although that amendment was defeated, Senator Obama remains committed to improving rail and transit security.

Disaster Response
In the wake of Hurricane Katrina, improving our nation's emergency planning and response capacity has become a priority for Senator Obama. He has introduced legislation to ensure that the mistakes witnessed before and after Katrina are not repeated in the future. Senator Obama's legislation includes provisions to establish a national family locator system for missing persons, a mobile corps of volunteer health professions, and mandatory planning for the emergency evacuation of people with special needs, including low-income individuals, the elderly, and the disabled.

Terrorism Risk Insurance
Senator Obama cosponsored the extension of the Terrorism Risk Insurance Act (which became Public Law 109-144). The Act provides important protections to real estate in large cities such as Chicago.

Nuclear Waste
Within the past five years, three nuclear power plants have reported missing spent fuel. Senator Obama introduced the Spent Nuclear Fuel Tracking and Accountability Act (S. 1194), which would establish specific and uniform guidelines for tracking, controlling, and accounting for individual spent fuel rods or segments at nuclear power plants, including procedures for conducting physical inventories. These provisions were included in S. 864, which passed the Senate Environment and Public Works (EPW) Committee on June 8, 2005.

Drinking Water Security
Senator Obama drafted an amendment, which was included in the Safe Drinking Water Act, which passed the EPW Committee on July 20, 2005. The Obama amendment would provide $37.5 million over the next five years to protect the country's drinking water from a terrorist attack. It also instructs Environmental Protection Agency and the Centers for Disease Control to develop the tools needed by drinking water systems to detect and respond to the introduction of biological, chemical, and radiological contaminants by terrorists.

Primary & Secondary Education
Senator Obama has introduced the Innovation Districts for School Improvement Act (S. 2441). Under this initiative, school districts would submit plans on how they would become centers of reform. Twenty districts nationwide would be selected based on the best plans to increase achievement for all students and put effective teachers in all classrooms. These districts would receive substantial federal resources but would be required to implement systemic reforms and show convincing results.

Differences in learning opportunities during the summer contribute to the achievement gaps that separate struggling poor and minority students from their middle-class peers. Senator Obama introduced the Summer Term Education Programs for Upward Progress Act (STEP UP) (S. 2149) to address the achievement gaps among schoolchildren in the early grades. STEP UP establishes a grant program to support summer learning opportunities to be offered by local schools or community organizations.

Post-Secondary Education
Senator Obama believes that every high school graduate should have the opportunity to go to college or vocational school. Student loans provide critical financial aid for many Americans. Not long ago, financial aid was primarily in the form of grants. Unfortunately, this is no longer the case. Graduates now have more and more difficulty keeping up with loan payments. At a minimum, our government has the responsibility to ensure that the most affordable and sensible loans are available to our students. But government and students are not the only ones who need to act. Tuition costs have been rising at an average rate of 8% per year, well above the overall rate of inflation. Colleges and universities must also do their part to rein in costs and pass those savings on to students.

To address this problem, Barack Obama's first bill as a U.S. Senator was the HOPE Act (Higher Education Opportunity Through Pell Grant Expansion Act) (S.697), which would help make college more affordable for many Americans. The bill would increase the maximum Pell Grant from the current limit of $4,050 to a new maximum of $5,100.

Veterans Benefits Disparities
Following reports in December 2004 that Illinois veterans have for decades ranked nearly last in average disability pay received, Senator Obama led efforts to uncover the reasons for this disparity and to correct it. As a result of this pressure, the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) opened an investigation into the matter, agreed to hire a dozen new claims specialists for the Chicago regional office, and agreed to re-examine the claims of Illinois veterans who felt they have been treated unfairly. Senators Obama and Durbin introduced an amendment that became law requiring the VA to notify Illinois veterans about their right to seek a review of their past claims. The resulting outreach to Illinois veterans in the summer of 2006, led to an increase in the number of Illinois veterans getting the benefits and services they deserve.

Greater Funding for Veterans Health Care
As early as February 2005, Senator Obama warned of a shortfall in the VA budget. Four months later, the VA reported that in fact it had more than a $1 billion shortfall. Senator Obama cosponsored a bill that led to a $1.5 billion increase in veterans' medical care. During the debate on the Fiscal Year 2007 budget, Senator Obama cosponsored measures that would have provided additional funding increases for veterans.

In September 2006, Senator Obama introduced the Lane Evans Veterans Health and Benefits Improvement Act (S. 3988) to improve the VA’s planning process to avoid budget shortfalls in the future. The bill requires the VA and the Department of Defense to work together and share data so that we know precisely how many troops will be returning home and entering the VA system.

Homeless Veterans
Every year, 400,000 veterans across the country, including an estimated 38,000 in Chicago, spend some time living on the streets. Senator Obama has been a leader in fighting homelessness among veterans. He authored the Sheltering All Veterans Everywhere Act (SAVE Act) (S. 1180) to strengthen and expand federal homeless veteran programs that serve over 100,000 homeless veterans annually. During the debate on the Fiscal Year 2007 budget, Senator Obama passed an amendment to increase funding for homeless veterans programs by $40 million. These funds would benefit programs that provide food, clothing, mental health and substance abuse counseling, and employment and housing assistance to homeless veterans.

In June 2006, Senator Obama introduced the Homes for Heroes Act (S. 3475), which would expand access to long-term affordable housing for homeless veterans by setting aside $225 million to purchase, build or rehabilitate homes and apartments for veterans. The legislation would also greatly expand existing veterans rental assistance programs and create a new office within the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) to coordinate services to homeless veterans.

Food for Recovering Soldiers
Senator Obama introduced an amendment that became law providing food services to wounded veterans receiving physical therapy or rehabilitation services at military hospitals. Previously, service members receiving physical therapy or rehabilitation services in a medical hospital for more than 90 days were required to pay for their meals.

Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and TBI
Senator Obama fought a VA proposal that would have required a reexamination of all PTSD cases in which full benefits were granted. He and Senator Durbin passed an amendment that has become law preventing the VA from conducting a review of cases, without first providing Congress with a complete report regarding the implementation of such review. In November 2005, the VA announced that it was abandoning its planned review.

Senator Obama passed an amendment to ensure that all service members returning from Iraq are properly screened for Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). TBI is being called the signature injury of the Iraq war. The blast from improvised explosive devices can jar the brain, causing bruising or permanent damage. Concussions can have huge health effects including slowed thinking, headaches, memory loss, sleep disturbance, attention and concentration deficits, and irritability.

Easing the Transition to the VA
Senator Obama passed an amendment that became law requiring the Department of Defense (DOD) to report to Congress on the delayed development of an electronic medical records system compatible with the VA's electronic medical records system. DOD's delay in developing such a system has created obstacles for service members transitioning into the VA health care system.

In September 2006, Senator Obama introduced the Lane Evans Veterans Health and Benefits Improvement Act (S. 3988) which would help veterans transition from the DOD health system to the VA system by extending the window in which new veterans can get mental health care from two years to five years. The Lane Evans bill also would improve transition services for members of the National Guard and Reserves.

WALL OF TEXT

WALL OF TEXT

WALL OF TEXT

Just a link, in the future, if you please.

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Gottalife is not smart enough to click on links.

But you are right, my bad.

The post is typical of the way Obamanauts turn people off. And then you blame it on gotalife? He's not smart enough? I think you've caught something from your candidate. Did you really not know his campaign had collapsed? Watch what his black voter base does now.

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Regardless of what happens to his campaign, the Anybody But Hillary voters will find another place for our vote.

Hillary won't win if Obama loses. So you better pray Obama DOES win, MF.

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You still don't get it, do you, hot dog? Hillary isn't winning--she's just helping the Republicans. The enemy within is trying to destroy the party.

You still don't understand that that's been an Obamanaut talking point for so long - "if you don't let our amazing exhalted candidate win, you're destroying the party".

Hillary has been the strongest in saying, "I'm a Democrat and we'll pull together in November whoever the nominee is", yet the Obama side has consistently tossed out the idea that she supports McCain, might run with McCain, etc. (And yes, she can say something agreeable about McCain knowing she has a whole armada of good attacks to use against him once things get serious).

Again and again we've said, "It's over when it's over", but the Obama side has continually acted like Iowa then Feb. 5 put the end to it all. "Just give up". All into the rules except the rule that says the campaign goes until the convention.

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Apparently, you don't know Gotalife very well.
He is an insufferable twit who hasn't got even a passing acquaintance with the truth.

Not only is he dull, he is the cause of dullness in others.

No, I liked it. No bad here.

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'Considering the main post, I like that this got placed here.

I like it a lot. For once, the whole thing is right and necessary.

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But he is right, blog ettiquette says huge walls of text are bad.

Still, I don't see Gottalife calling BS anymore.

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I agree. Sometimes drastic action is called for. goatlife doesn't read unless you still the facts right in its face.

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Yeah, I think it was fair against nolife, since he's a troll and likes to bomb threads with delusions and outright factually false claims.

btw, why don't blogs just ban them the kooks and trolls not participating in good faith? It's a real failure of ideology and lack of pragmatism.

Let's be honest, who wouldn't kick nolife out of their party, or business meeting, or any other meeting of people just for being obnoxious?

The notion that fora are "public squares" doesn't make any sense to me. Even in public squares we have rules that nuts with sandwich boards can't harass people or be intentionally disruptive with megaphones and such.

If we didn't prohibit it, public squares would be plagued with Jesus freaks, 911 conspiracy theorists, neo-nazis, and all sorts of just plain obnoxious people with the sole intention of being a PITA. That's why there are so many crazies in fora. It's the only place they're allowed to spew and harass people without restriction.

When are blogs and fora going to get real about it?

God if anyone knows what BS is it's you.

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in 4 more years, more racists will be dead? that's the only reason I can think of...

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Oh come on. Everyone knows only Republicans can be bigots. If you are a Democrat and in the Klan you're made Senate Majority Leader.

The quotes are a glitch and doesn't allow anyone to respond to the post.

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It's the quotation marks in his/her username, I think.

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Yeah, I just tested it. If you enclose your username in quotes, it prevents replies. I guess if you're only interested in your own opinion, it's a clever trick. I'm switching back.

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The quotes must be escape characters for the script or something. Or else they need to be escaped in the username. I just notified Josh. If it's fixed within a year, I'll be very surprised.

Because he has quotes around his name. It's apparently a glitch.

Jesus. I didn't realize this was all on one thread, and didn't bother to look down this far or I wouldn't have posted that for the 5th time.

OK, I thought that was just me,...well, I guess that just that makes "Present" one lucky bigot.

How would you do that?

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"Present" is a dipshit. "Garbage from the hood"? The guy was a state senator and a president of the Law Review. Ugh. You racists are so pathetic, srsly.

I will also. She is Lieberman.

Nisleib;
I am an attorney in NY and I have pledged to help get rid of the Clinton circus in her next Senate run, assuming of course that she is not President. I want to use Obama's network to finance a good local candidate.

We can look for a progressive, charismatic New Yorker and put HRC out to pasture for good!

I guess none of us knew how deep into the gutter HRC would go until she proved it to us. I did not think I would see the day when a Democratic Presidential candidate would use racism to try to bring down the front runner. I haven't been this disgusted since 2001 when this imposter paraded down to his inauguration.

whine whine whine.... wahhhhh

He did it to HIMSELF.

His true colors are finally surfacing. Woulda happened sooner if he'd gotten the proper media vetting but MSNBC was too IN LUUVV to do that! Olbermann is probably crying himself to sleep at night these days....

LOL

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Here is the really ironic part. Clinton will lose in the fall. You know the swing states you guys are so fondly of saying that Clinton will win. How can Hillary win in those states without the African American vote.

Remeber OH and PA got a upclose and personal look at the kind of campaign that Hillary ran. How she went out of her way to call Obama a Secret muslim. How she was so quick to pile on the Rev. Wright issue.

So I hope she can beat McCain on the strength of the white votes alone in OH and PA.

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Clinton isn't going to lose in the fall because she won't be running. Stop fretting--Obama's got the nomination locked up. The only reason the party is still indulging the Clintons is because we can't afford to lose Hillary's supporters. The party elders are not going to toss Hillary out of the race. They're just going to crowd her out. Superdelegate-by-superdelegate. These things must be done verrry delicately....

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Spot-on...

this demographic dissection dance is beginning to look like "Dancing with the Doofuses", the only reliable "poll" is the one that averages them all, Poll Tracker.

Picking just one of them as an example is a bit casual, in terms of veracity.

The white working class is an unreliable demographic for the Democratic party. Al Gore lost this group in the general election by 17% and John Kerry lost it by 23%. Beyond that, in terms of the general election, I wouldn't go to the bank on any poll results this early in the game.

However, in terms of the coming primaries on Tuesday, these numbers are much more important. Without a doubt, they do not auger well for Obama and a bad showing could hurt him, even perhaps allow for the thing that those of us who support him would find it terribly painful to see -- a successful Clinton argument to the party for her candidacy.

But the victory party will still remain premature. There are no sure bets in this game --either Clinton or Obama could lose to McCain in the fall. And all this counting of chickens before they hatch sounds pretty naive to me. Especially when it comes to a candidate whose claim to fame is the support of the white working class. Outside of universal healthcare, they can love McCain for all the anti-elitist flagwaving stuff they love Hillary for -- including being white.

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I don't buy into the narrow definition of "working class" this poll and Kleefeld's headline espouses. It's a complete misunderstanding and antiquated use of the term, and frankly I think it's another example of people being manipulated and propagandized by language, framed by elites.

I totally reject this bogus notion of "working class" being limited to HS educated factory and low skilled service workers, as it was defined over 60 years ago. Today's working class encompasses all people working for wages, struggling to pay the mortgage or rent, send their kids to college, pay for health care, worried about job security and so on. That includes millions of highly educated professionals in tech industries, which are the factories of the 21st century.

"Working class" has always fundamentally meant people working for wages, as separate from the investment class or elite professionals, who don't share the same concerns. It's always referred to the vast majority of the population, distinct from a small number of elites.

In the early half of the 20th century that meant factory and farm workers as well as those literally referred to as "servants" by which I mean maids, shoe shiners, etc.

However, after WWII, many "working class" people moved to suburbs to own their own homes, sent children off to college, and greatly improved their quality of life and status in the US and the world. Many working class people went into professions previously considered elite and into highly skilled jobs that in earlier times would have been "elite." The typical factory worker today is more skilled and educated than a plant foreman a century ago. The typical waiter or counter person is likely to have some college, and quite possibly a higher degree.

Furthermore, many highly skilled and highly educated professions are no longer "elite" but are now rather working class. For example, computer programming sounded like the profession of millionaires a couple decades ago. Now, it's a vast industry of mostly wage slaves, many working 60+ hr weeks, struggling to pay the mortgage and with most of their earnings being absorbed by inflation and high cost of living regions. In fact, their quality of life relative to the nation as a whole, is very similar to that of factory workers 50 years ago.

In fact, quality of living has been rather flat for working people for decades, despite the tremendous economic growth and accumulation of wealth at the very top.

The definition of "working class" Kleefeld and this poll uses, is antiquated, false, and divisive, for failing to include many millions of educated people working for wages, with the same issues and problems as factory workers had half a century ago.

His true self is better than Clinton's fake and true selves.

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Enjoy it while it lasts. It will make Hillary's ultimate defeat so much sweeter.

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His true colors? (o very good - good use of innuendo)


Honey that comment alone caused that white robe and that hood to just manifest all over your body the minute you posted it.

what a lame argument...

every time anyone says anything about your dumbo character you cry RACIST...

Well I got one word for you dearie...

SEXIST !!


yeah, "true colors".... Would someone please tell me when THAT word became a racist comment? Would someone please tell Cindy Lauper about that? I'm sure she'd like to know as well.

What a BIG JERK you sound to be...


Rae

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Finally, half of the Democrats are understanding what it's like to be a Republican. Anything you say is attacked as "Racist." Whoops, I just used a form of the word "Race." It must have been an backhanded slight about his race. Whoops, "Backhanded" starts the same as "Back of the bus." Another freudian racial slip...

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What fatuous twaddle.

You need to call everyone you know---both of them---and get them to help you get a clue, because you'll never do it on your own.

Oh shut up you idiot. Hillary had nothing to do with Obama's crackpot pastor.

A Hillary backer ORGANIZED the National Press Club event, A-hole! Why do you think every single question was stacked to foment controversy?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/04/wrightsetup.html

Self inflicted.

Blame your hero.

Inflicted by someone close to him, which is not the same thing.

IT'S ALL CLINTON'S FAULT!!!!!!!!

No, it's not. It's the snotty, dismissive way The Dear Leader's half-caff-double-shot-mocha-latte drinking, Scion xB-driving cult of high school kids treats anybody over 24 years of age.

You 'bots just don't freakin' get it.


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Since you're in 5th grade, judging by your comment, you don't have anything to worry about, do you?

Oh God, knock it off. This talk reminds me of highschool. Your post reeks of someone who lacks any self confidence and self respect. If you worry that others are better than you, correct your flaws. Stop projecting onto others. You sound like a paranoid nut.

libgirl, if you're talking to everybody on this thread then good on ya. Yours is a refreshing voice of reason, and maybe the overall discourse here can be raised by your example.

If, on the ohter hand, your comments were directed solely at me - completely disregarding posts in a similar vein placed here by the Obama camp - well, then your comments are de facto irrelevant. That would make them simply the spewings of yet another Obama hypocrite.

Well, part of this problem is in the way the media has chosen to characterize these voters.

How important would it seem if the headline had read, "Hillary wins the uneducated poor white vote in a landslide"? (high school education or less, $50,000 a year or less.)

"Working class whites" sounds so salt-of-the-earth important. What makes this country strong and all that. Probably lots of people wouldn't mind being "working class white" and therefore identify with other Hillary voters.

But, how many would want to join an uneducated poor white class of voters - even if they were? And those are, in fact, Hillary's base. Poor people with high school degrees or less and old(er) women.

I noticed that the headline doesn't mention that "Obama beats Hillary against McCain with Independents." You have to read way down in the story to find that nugget. But then, that isn't the latest media craze... the media is all about "working class whites" right now.

Eric, You're starting to embarrass yourself. Stop now while you still can.

Do you want some more salt to rub in the fucking wound, Kleefeld? You're going through your current pile awfully goddamn fast.

Not to be crude or anything, but it's obvious Eric's got a hard-on right now.

Fuck not being crude, we're on the internet for God's sake.

Remember November -- that's what matters. Who can win the White House for the Democratic Party -- that's what matters.

Obama's numbers are collapsing -- and, no, it's not just Wright. People are starting to look for real policies behind all the pretty words. People are starting to realize which candidate really is tough enough to take on the right wing slime machine.

Clinton can win in November, people; Obama can't. It's that simple: Remember November.

Clinton's so 'tough' and has 'taken on the Right Wing slime machine' so well that half of America doesn't trust her, and many people have an irrational hatred of her.

Her toughness line is bullshit. She hasn't endured the Republicans at all. They've turned her into a frightening caricature.

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Hillary backers are always confusing Tough with Liar.

Sad really.

Nothing will drive up GOP turnout in November like the name "Clinton" on the ticket.

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without clinton, how can we count on a war with iran, which will vindicate her vote to go to war with iraq, and will also miraculously win the war in afghanistan which is, surprise of surprises, undermanned. how did that ever happen?

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If by "Take on" the right wing slime machine you mean "embrace." That's all she's doing. Obama is getting slammed both by Hillary and selfsame slime machine. Of course his numbers are going down. There is plenty of old dirt on Hillary as well and it would all be made apparent in the primary.

If Hillary does snag the nomination, McCain will make a play for Black voters and actually get some. She has no chance in November, none.

Um, Clinton is the "right wing slime machine."

No, I'll go one further. Because Clinton is a Democrat with some long-term standing, she is worse than the "right wing slime machine." When she calls Obama "elitist" or says that "it's up to the voters to decide" what to make of Wright (thereby conflating Wright and Obama), she does so with some (diminishing) credibility among Democratic voters. She poisons from within.

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Oh, I'm not about to forget about November. I've voted for every Democrat since McGovern but I guarantee you I will not vote for Hillary. I will vote.

I'm sure Hillary's shaking in her shoes at the thought of losing your vote in the GE. With all the Reagan Dems coming back to vote for Hillary, you're vote won't matter. And when Barack loses, it'll still be your fault because you backed a lame un-vetted candidate like Obama in the first place.

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And all you'd prove is that if you have two Republicans running, one of them is going to win.

Reagan Democrats didn't vote for her husband. They won't vote for her.

I'm going to say it again: there is no such thing as inevitability in this race. McCain's a formidable candidate and if you need any proof of that, since numbers seem to impress you, take a look at how he's come up from behind. He's neck and neck with both Clinton and Obama. He's the real winner of the Democratic primary, hands down.

"Clinton can win in November?"

What defense will she have when they throw Monica Lewinsky at her?

"I promise to divorce my philandering husband if you vote for me so you do not have to have him back in the White House?"

I don't think so. See also Cyburn's concern that the Clintons are burning their brideg with teh black voters.

You think she can win without them?

NOT!

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Clinton may be able to win. But can she govern???

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Of course not, she can't even run her own damn campaign.

which is why she is winning?

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Winning what exactly?

She is losing on every metric but one: Superdelegates. And Obama is closing on her quickly.

Um, she already lost. But if she plays her cards right, she can count on people like you to blackmail the party into putting on the ticket as a VP. Will that cure your sniffles?

I seriously doubt it.

Well she's already angered the Iranians.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7376741.stm

Maybe next, she'll piss off the Russians directly, rather than doing it by proxy like she is here.

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And there is something wrong with pissing off the Iranians?

"Is there something wrong with pissing off the Iranians?"

Well, yes, there is. For one thing, their populace is one of the most pro-American in the world.

For another, many of them are more interested in our politics than many of us are:

http://time-blog.com/middle_east/2008/04/24/

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There sure is to the anti-war voters like me. Just one more faction that will vote against Hillary in November.

So?

Are you scared?

Back under your bed troll.

Am I scared of starting another war in the Middle East?

Yes.

Absolutely.

Aren't you?

Getalife has got to be one of the biggest assholes to ever walk the face of the earth. Reply if you agree.

gotalife is a great American, you on the other hand are an asshole.

The sleaze bag is ticking off nations before even getting into office. Impressive diplomacy skills!

She can't even work a coffee machine. How can she run a nation?

Simple. She can't.

oh joy!!!

This is such GOOOD NEWWWS!!!!!!!


GO HILLARY!

Maybe we're finally seeing the end to this FAKE Obama nonsense. People are finally seeing he's nothing more than another Left wing radical nut job!


rae

What the hell's wrong with being 'left wing'? We're the Democratic Party. We're the party for the left wing.

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yeah, but he is a troll.

The Republicans have been coming on TPM in force to try to help Hillary. Gottalife, Present, and this fool are all perfect examples.

You are the troll.

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Nice comeback!

Why don't you skip along over to Little Green Footballs and brag to all your brain dead friends about all the great trolling you've done today.

I'm not a republican! I support HIllary, I love Hillary.

You people are so drunk on koolaid you just can't believe anyone wouldn't vote for him.

Announcement Obabamamites: He's only charismatic to you fools!

Rest of us looked behind the words. Found him lacking. Found him to be an empty suit and now a (FAR)left wing nut job. He loved Wright before, now not. LOL

Rae

Oh yeah, definitely a Republican.

However, there are other Clinton supporters on here who actually add to the discourse. Most of 'em that flooded this thread probably aren't Democrats. But who the hell knows. Every party has crazy people.

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"LOL" is the sure-fire tell of the wingnut troll.

as "troll" is the sure fired sign of a koolaid drinking black radical supporter!

No, the Democratic Party is not just for the "left wing" alone, it's a big tent, and the left wing should realize that in order to win elections, we need the blue collar/union vote too. Otherwise we're relegated to minority status for years and allow the Republicans to take control and screw everything up.

You left wingers have been sounding like right wingers for sometime now, and it's really frustrating for the life-long, liberal/moderate Dems to see you hijack the party that you abandoned when you voted for Nader. Stop taking yourselves so seriously.

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Good on you.

Just so.

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Yeah, but you're not supposed to say it out loud cuz "left-wing" can't win. That's why y'all quit using "Liberal" and prefer "progressive."

It would help, if only for the sake of internal consistency, if some sort of common understanding of the term "left wing" could be employed on this blog. RaeK takes issue with Obama for being "left wing" and Oregon Activist takes issue with Obama for not being as far to the left as Clinton. Clearly both cannot be right, and I suspect that the discrepancy is really an equivocation. Why, however, even bother with a term that means a million different things in a million different mouths?

Incidentally, I think that on the strength of the evidence, Oregon Activist is objectively correct and RaeK is objectively wrong. After all, it is Clinton who has a mandate in her health care plan, not Obama. That does not make her plan "radical" per se, but it does mean that her plan is farther to the left of the American political spectrum than is his. Given that this is one of the few differences between the two of them large enough even to be perceptible, it would appear that she is the one farther (albeit only just barely) out on the left wing.

Correction...

I take issue with OBama being & catering to FAR LEFT Wing, as in RADICAL LEFT Wing ....

Simple "left wing" is not bad.
Moderate is best.


Does it matter? One way or the other, it still comes down the fact that you are claiming that Clinton stands to Obama's right, while Oregon Activist claims that she stands to his left. More to the point, objectively speaking it is hard not to conclude that you are wrong and Oregon Activist is correct. On the one issue over which they differ perceptibly (if only just) she is to his left.

The media is slowly starting to leave Wright alone, so I am hoping this is like the last time Obama will hit bottom and start to rebound.

so far the media is really lowering expectations for Obama in NC, its all about Hillary and momentum, so it would really crush their narrative if he still won by double digits.

nothing we can do but wait and watch, and donate and call.

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I'm not voting for Hillary and I will start a website to get the black and youth vote away from Hillary if she is the nomination. This is bullshit.

Nice troll.

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say what you want. It dosen't change the facts.

gotalife, stow the name-calling

I'll join you if you'll have me, though I am not black. What doesn't seem to register is Sen Clinton has already disqualified herself, and her election means a radical shift in democratic values towards the neo-con position. She will never get my vote.

Obama should take his upper income white, student, and black base and run as a third party candidate. You have plenty of money. You would have a party that represents your ideals and the American public could vote on it. McCain, Clinton, Obama and Nader. Would be a fantastic campaign and an even better election.

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Clinton doesn't get to keep the party any more than McCain gets to keep the flag.

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Whoops! You said "You" as in "you people." You are obviously a racist! Where's HusseinTenaX with her scarlet "R" when you need her?

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And you would prefer having McCain appoint the replacements for Justices Stevens and Ginsberg?

Take a look at the Court's decision in Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1. (Roberts, Scalia, Kennedy, Thomas and Alito) Maybe you think there's no need to worry about Brown v. The Board of Education getting flushed down the toilet, but if Justice Stevens is worried (read his dissent) so am I.

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To be honest I don't care about nothing else but making sure Hillary isn't elected president of the U.S.

She isn't what the Democratic party should stand for. Hillary knows that the gas tax is wrong but she wouldn't dare say it.

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So because you want to save 18 cents on a gallon of gas for the next couple of months, you could care less about the Supreme Court - the Brown decision, the Rule of Reason (price fixing/antitrust law) or anything else the Supreme Court might do after someone like McCain gets done with it.

Makes sense to me.

I agree. No bribe of a SOOTUS justice makes Sen Clinton any more qualified to serve in the Senate, much less as president.

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Actually, if you read the decision, Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1 was reversed and remanded because the school district had a specific racial quotta they had targeted for the schools. That is unconstitutional, a goal of overall diversity is legal and the court said so. I think Brown is safe.

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Don't leave out us old, white, anti-war voters, we're happy to join your coalition.

I'm not voting for Hillary and I will start a website to get the black and youth vote away from Hillary if she is the nomination. This is bullshit.

Translated from the original 'bot-speak, in English this means, "GOD DAMN AMERICA!!!!!!"

Freakin' chump-ass 'bots.


Keep right on lowering those expectations. It makes Obama's path easier. Hillary has had her 15 minutes as "comeback kid", now it'll be Obama's turn. That's how the MSM manufactures its horserace narrative.

I don't think they're deliberately biased, but gawdamighty when Hillary gets into one of her good periods, its like Howard Wolfson's Blackberry hypnotizes MSMers and bloggers the way a snake hypnotizes a mouse. A page full of results and yet, magically, they come out framed exactly the way the Clinton campaign wants them framed without the little details that tend to show their frame is pure bullshit.

The Poll says that as between Obama and Clinton in the primary, Obama has lost support among the working class whites, but Pew does not find that affecting support in the general:

Nonetheless, there is no indication that either Obama or Clinton have been weakened in general election matchups against John McCain. As in March, both Democrats best McCain in general election matchups by small margins (Obama by 50% to 44%, and Clinton by 49% to 45%).

Also of interest:

When the two possible November matchups are analyzed together, Democrats are more divided in their preferences. About two-thirds of core Democratic voters (65%) say they will back either of the Democratic candidates over John McCain, compared with 80% of Republicans who say they will back McCain regardless of the Democratic nominee. About three-in-ten Democrats (29%) say they will back only one of the Democrats this fall (17% Clinton only, 12% Obama only).

About a third of independent voters (34%) say they would support either Democratic candidate over McCain, while 31% say they would back McCain over either Obama or Clinton. Obama's appeal among independents is evident in the combined November matchups; twice as many independents say they would support Obama but not Clinton in the fall as say the opposite (18% vs. 9%).

And, finally, here's why its imperative we bring this thing to a conclusion and start hammering at McCain, as well as why there's room for, dare I say it, hope:

For his part, McCain runs better in the general election tests against both Democratic candidates among college graduates and white men. More generally, the current poll finds that McCain's competitiveness against both Democrats is buttressed by the fact that voters continue to see him as a centrist whose views are fairly close to their own, and less conservative than George W. Bush's. In contrast, voters place both Clinton and Obama considerably to the left of where they place themselves. These ideological perceptions of the candidates have changed little over the past three months.

While McCain is seen as more centrist than the Democratic candidates, he does not inspire as much confidence as either of them does to handle the issue voters would most like to see the candidates address: the economy. By wide margins, voters choose either Obama or Clinton as better able than McCain to improve economic conditions

And for Christ's sake, given how Clinton has been framing this thing, how is this part, which I repeat, not the damn lead?

Nonetheless, there is no indication that either Obama or Clinton have been weakened in general election matchups against John McCain. As in March, both Democrats best McCain in general election matchups by small margins (Obama by 50% to 44%, and Clinton by 49% to 45%).

I mean, I expect the Ben Smith and the rest of the Axis of Imbecility to hammer every round peg fact into the square hole of Hillary's frame, but Jesus Saves at Citibank, but I come here expecting at least a modicum of critical thinking.

Ummmm, just read the whole post and I apologize a little. But it still should have been the headline.

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A refresher on Kubler-Ross stages for Obama true believers:

-denial
-anger
-bargaining
-depression
-acceptance

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Thank you, thank you, thank you for talking me down off of the ledge. Oy vey.

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thank you. Thank You. THANK YOU. THANK YOU!!!!

The headline is a travesty.

The proper headline would have said:

Pew Poll: Obama would beat McCain by 6, Clinton by 4.

Eric has played into the Rove/Penn/Microtrend garbage. He shouldn't have done that.

It's about November.

Let's not even get started on the fact that the media has bought, hook, line, and sinker, the idea that this election is all about the white working class.

Aside from the fact that Obama's base is at least as important to the Democratic party, this meme totally ignores the lessons of 2006. The most encouraging outcome of the congressional elections was the indication that we could win formally Republican professionals. It seemed as though the Democrats could finally be the party of ideas, the party of grown-ups who proposed real solutions to economic and foreign policy problems for the 21st century.

Instead we've been dragged back into the past, fighting in the mud to pander to the least educated segement of the electorate. Instead of realistic workable policies we talk about cutting the gas tax, bomb bomb Iran, and respecting the flag(pin).

I find it hard to underestimate the missed opportunity.

She's winning because Jeremiah Wright is, to mince no words, an asshole.

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She is not winning.

I suppose I was speaking relatively there.

I suppose you were speaking unintelligently, there...

Look, I don't want to flat out condemn Wright; to do so would be to gloss over his history of ministry, and what appears to be a keen insight into American history from the perspective of the oppressed.

But he had to know that saying Obama's race speech was 'political posturing' would be bad for Obama. That was a dick move.

gotalife, stow the name-calling
- Marioth
I suppose you were speaking unintelligently, there...
- Marioth

Hypocrisy = Republican = Obamabot


Ok, you got me, even though describing someone's approach is NOT the same as the out-and-out name-calling to which gotalife (and you) ascribe. But let us say you cannot comprehend that, so I will agree with you.

This causes super dels to jump to Sen Clinton HOW, again?

Keep grasping.

Pax,
M.

Also...how about the fact that Hillary's lost the ENTIRE black vote, or doesn't that matter? Does that mean she isn't going to get their vote in a general election?

Both Obama and Clinton have won approx 50% of the primary vote. Does that mean that the other's vote won't vote for the nominee?

Using that logic, Clinton or Obama will get only 25% of the vote in a general election.

This whole argument is a canard.

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I will not vote for her and I'm African American. Since the beginning of march her tactics left a lot to be desired.

I will not vote for her, and I'm a German American. No more racist, lying obliteratti.

"I will not vote for her, and I'm a German American. No more racist, lying obliteratti."

racist? really? i'm african-american and i voted for HRC and continue to support her. so let's save the histrionic posturing on race for another forum, shall we?

but that might eliminate the majority of posts here nowadays...

you don't like her, fine. but don't start with the racist bullshit. you just look stupid.

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At this point I wouldn't even vote for Obama if Hillary was the VP. She's trashing the party, and frankly if the Democrats nominate her they deserve to lose and America deserves whatever it gets.

Yah. There would have to be some fundamental shift in his politics to want to sign on to a train wreck in waiting.

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its like Howard Wolfson's Blackberry hypnotizes MSMers and bloggers the way a snake hypnotizes a mouse

Word straight up.


It's just reached crazy now.

Like I said, just re-posting Wolfson's spin on things is much easier than, I don't know, actually reading the poll and putting it into some kind of (excuse me) "fair and balanced" context.

Hillary and "winning" don't belong in the same sentence when discussing this campaign.

She is "dragging", "extending", and "dividing".

She's going to lose the primary. All of this is just to try and ensure Barack doesn't win.

Self inflicted and he is destroying the party not the Clintons.

Yes, drawing in millions of new voters and filling up stadium in ways Sen Clinton can only dream about....building a grass- and net-roots campaign that can fund him through November, and will endure to the next cycle in 2010...oh, yes how self-inflicted.

Sen Clinton will inherit none of it. Unless they are still using Xerox machines for her dead-on-arrival change message.

The media is reduced to rifling through church bulletins because Sen Clinton cannot see the damage she does, and works her fading connections to throw ever more sand into the air. She was SUPPOSED to win. And she isn't.

Please stop calling everyone but yourself a troll. You are diminishing the brand of the word, and, incidently, yourself.

Pax,
M.

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Whatever dude.

You might as well be saying, "Hillary is godzilla" for all the proof you provide.

What is it with Hillary supporters thinking if they repeat something enough people will believe it? That only works with Republicans.

And why do Hillary supporters blame everything Hillary does on Obama? Is it cognitive dissonance?

Please explain how it is Obama, with the lead in all metrics pertinent to the nomination, who is hurting the party, not Clinton.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Polls are useless. Hillary started this race with a 35 point national lead, polls dont matter delegates do AND no matter what, hillary is going to end up with less delegates than Obama. The only reason she won Penn is because of right wing republicans changing parties trying to create havoc among the democrats. It looks like the same thing is going to happen in Indiana.

Any word on how Hillary is doing among Blacks?


She will work on that after she's wrested the nomination from Obama.

Afterwards, she will send Bill to practice his oratory on Sundays at AA churches, apologize and we all will love the Clintons again.

So they think.

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Fuck Bill Clinton apology.
I don't see how anyone black church would ever welcome him again. He better stick to the rual white voters he is talking to now.

But but but....Bill has an office in Harlem!

"Fuck Bill Clinton apology.
I don't see how anyone black church would ever welcome him again. He better stick to the rual white voters he is talking to now."

How old are you? Seriously?

I guess all of those black folks still supporting HRC don't exist? Get a clue.

Don't try and speak for all Black people, however tempting it may be in a liberal forum doused with Obama Kool-Aid.

Don't you have work to do on that nifty new anti-Clinton project you said you'd be starting? Better get started - looks like you might have some work to do...

Please spend your time and energy working against Hillary Clinton, if she becomes the nominee, instead of for the change you say you want. That makes total sense.

Sen Clinton will never get my vote. A vote for her is a vote to insert murderous neo-con language into the Democratic platform based on the same rediculous bluster and arrogance we've had for 7 years.

A supreme court justuce -- hell, even all nine -- has no moral equivalency to the erasure of Iran by nukes. Even the threat of it crosses a fat red line, and it's a one-way trip. No more SCOTUS bribes, thanks.

No more obliteratti. No more presidency-by-denial. No more media-controlled elections.

This is a Dem blog troll.

You should not speak thusly about yourself, gotNOlife.

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Which is why you should leave.

You speak nonsense. I presented no ID card when I created this account. You look more foolish by the hour.

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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

(s)he does seem to spout *ridiculous* over-the-top garbage, you may be right.

Eric, seeing as you're the statistics guy, could you put together some numbers for us showing how Hillary is doing among Working Class Blacks, College Educated Blacks, Black Men, Black Women, Blacks making less than $50K a year, etc?

Thanks!

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Please point out that any Democrat that is going to win Ohio or PA. Will have to win this vote by 90% as well as increase the number of people voting.

These articles/polls are nothing more than the media trying to push this narrative that Obama is unelectable and keep this horse race going all the way til the convention. Obama has been getting totally hammered by the media which is interested in tabloid stories rather than substance and the issues affecting Americans.

We'll see on Tuesday if the media can hang up a "mission accomplished" banner if Obama doesn't manage to win North Carolina or gets blown out in Indiana. Until then, the media is in an ass backwards way doing Obama a favor by lowering expectations. Typically Obama has been expected to win or in some cases win by double digits, so with the expectations being set at barely winning or getting blown out...if/when he exceeds that his success might finally be recognized.

What did I say many months ago. If this race becomes about race, Obama loses. Those working-class whites that Obama likes to put down were dying for a black man they could vote for. But they won't vote for him if they suspect he is racially divisive rather than a uniter. And what has Obama turned out to be? He's the man who painted the Clintons as racists. He's the man with a wife who is only proud of America once she thinks it will elect her black husband. He's the man who looks down at white working-class voters and disses them behind their back in San Francisco. He's the man who dissed his own white grandmother and called her a typical white person. He's the man who first honored Jeremiah Wright, and then when the world got to see what Obama's mentor is really like, he turned on him. That's not what those voters were looking for.

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To bad Obama already won, dumbass. Hillary can't win on pledge delegates. And she can't win on Super delegates. So what's left? Nothing at all. Sorry.

Hey Otto, was was Adolph like those last few days in the bunker?

They say he was out of his mind on speed.

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You know yesterday was the anniversary of his suicide.

I bet Otto is wearing black today.

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Yes cause white people are the only votes that matter.

Espesially in OH and PA. Where everyone claims that Hillary can win. A democrat can win a election without 90% of the black vote. Just ask Bill Clinton who was able to win IL on the strngth of the black vote in 1992. The program was called Project Vote and led by Barack Obama.

Just sent $50 to BarackObama.com, I can't vote again, but I can send money...

Recent polls indicate that Obama's support in the black community has dropped a bit as well. Still, overwhelmingly in his favor, but off by a few points.

Hillary didn't do this. He was the one who made the so-called historic address that said Wright's snippets were being taken out of context.

Of course, he didn't know Wright would come forward and prove that to be false, thus making his entire historic address a fraud.

People are realizing he is just another poltician. And thus now hope for change at all.


An you are just another spinner, probably paid!

So you Hale Boppers, do you expect to wake up when Clinton is sworn into office in January 2009?

Listen up whiners. This about Obama's twenty year friendship with his radical, racist, spiritual, kook.

Blame Obama and nobody else.

Enough with the free pass.

Obama did this to himslf. Period.

Get over it.

*yawn*

I've had friendships for 20 years with people with far more deviant thoughts than have ever entered Jeremiah Wright's head. That would have nothing whatever to do with my qualifications (or, in my case, lack of them) to be President of the U.S.

That's why an ardent Hillary supporter ORGANIZED the National Press Club date for Jeremiah Wright? And why were all the questions stacked then?

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/04/wrightsetup.html

Oh no! And it's only six full months until Election Day, five of which will take place after the Clinton candidacy has officially self-destructed.

Boy, that's a long time to panic.

Of course the Clintons are up among underprivileged whites...

Bill's illegitimate children are all reaching voting age.

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LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I'm developing quite a crush on you.


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So the fuck what if working class whites prefer Hillary to Obama?

Unless there's evidence that those voters won't come over to Obama in the fall, or evidence that not enough of them will, then so the fuck what?

Head to heads polls between Obama and Clinton don't mean anything because they've already had 40-some head to head match ups that actually count. And Obama won. He has already won the race for pledged delegates, and he's winning the superdelegates. Unless something really crazy happens over the next month, that's not going to change. The next five weeks are an exercise in making Clinton supporters feel like they stand a chance. That's IT.

Are you off your medication? Obama needs 2025 to win the nomination, he doesn't have it yet, e.g., he hasn't won yet.

Take a deep breath and let the voters vote.

They're voting. What's the count now? If Clinton can't come up with better arguments, they have lost. Contrary to what many think, the math does bear this out. He doesn't need 2025 pledged delegates to convince SDs he has won more pledged delegates.

This whole thing is getting ridiculous. What argument is there that would overturn the pledged delegate count? Clinton said herself Obama could win..."Yes. Yes. Yes." I believe that was the exact answer to the question "Can Obama win in the General Election?"

If she thinks she's the better candidate, well, that's just peachy. She didn't convince enough of us, though. There is no way in hell she can win unless Obama gets caught boinking a donkey in the next month.

I think they've harmed the Clinton legacy, but it seems the party is actually divorcing itself from the toxic politics pushed by many of the politicos that have run the show for years now...on both sides. This can only be good for the party to cut the Penn's and Wolfson's lose.

Of course, if it happens, I'll be eating crow, but I'll bet shits to giggles I'm completely right. Reports say the SDs have all decided, I assure you there is nothing Clinton has done to convince them to vote for her.

Um...this polling organization has Obama still ahead and doing better than HRC against McCain. Why is it causing such a commotion?

He always drops a bit after these pre-election week lynchings, but then he re-bounds...and usually gets stronger. The attacks are becoming predictable. I am amazed that he maintains his patience and calm with all this infancy.

If the lowest of the low is him STILL beating Clinton and McCain overall I think we'll be just fine.

The commotion is completely manufactured by te media to keep their ad dollars rolling in. Sen Clinton lost this election after Super Tuesday, on substance, style, and points.

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And I'm sorry, but all this angst over working class whites and not a single drop of concern over Hillary Clinton's far far worse showing among African Americans?

How is Hillary Clinton supposed to win against McCain without the African American vote? Somebody explain it to me.

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African Americans, young voters, new voters, apparently affluent white liberals - there are few of us, too - progressives, the list is getting longer every time the Campaign for the Restoration sends out a mouthpiece to insult some other block of voters.

Funny, AA voters had no problem with Clinton before Obama entered the race. So if anyone has poisoned the well as far as her appeal to that constituency it is Obama.

With all due respect, that has to be some of the most tortured logic I've ever seen posted on a message board.

I suppose the Dems are entirely responsible for Bush's 27% approval rating? He hasn't done anything himself to deserve that?

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Sorry, idjit, but facts get in the way. Clinton was leading among African Americans in polls through all of 2007. He earned their support. She lost it. End of story.

Wow. And everybody would love the Yankees if they never had to play the Red Sox? Is this the logic your using?

Eric, you forgot to mention that Obama's leading among white, working class, three-nippled Jews.

Oh yeah, you only parse when it makes Clinton look good.


By the way, why am I the only one showing Clinton the respect of using her last name?

Who gives a shit? Just because they may prefer Obama in the primary doesn't mean they will ditch for McCain. No one is saying that because 90% of blacks support Obama Hillary has some kind of "black problem" that would haunt her in the general, even though blacks have a very real reason to be upset with Hillary's race-baiting.

This is just more of the same talking points and distracting focus that the MSM gives up. I'm sick of this non-stop poll watching at TPM. There is no demographic problem.

283.

Can you count that high, Hillatrolls?

It's simply a matter of time and math. This is what a sustained, strong, positive, campaign of the people is going to do: win.

283 delegates to go, and all the demogaugery in the world won't save you.

That's assuming none of the Obama delegates jump ship. That event should happen after Tuesday.

Dream on.

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I seem to recall a superdelegate jumping ship recently.

Which way did he go?

Where's the part about Hillary losing African-Americans and young voters (I'm assuming this to be true but apologize if it's wrong) in a landslide?

Doesn't keep people reading this stuff, bro. Welcome to the Great Clinton Primary Narrative, brought to you by the MSM and bloggers the world over!

Every so often a journalist mucks up and says, "Of course, she can't win." That journalist then sustains a blistering tongue lashing that pigs can, in fact, fly.

Gipper - your point is a strong one, and your Kinski avatar lends it a certain gravitas.

It is so cute when the little 'bots try sitting at the grown-up table. So self-conscious, so self-centered, so adorable in that cute little-boy way. I just love it when you boys and girls try acting like adults.

Some day, kiddies.... Some day.


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You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

ya gotta love how the uneducated folks get to dictate what happens in this country.

Obama elitist alert!

HAHAHAHA


Love that avatar!

Way to cherry pick info.

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Any Democrats in this thread should be ashamed of yourselves for the spirited trashing you are administerig to each other and your candidates. If your natural habitat is the swamp at LGF, I'm not talking to you.

From the letter that Joe Andrew sent today:

"The simple fact is that Democrats need to be united in November to win, and Clinton supporters, in particular, will be vital to victory. We will not convince Clinton supporters to join the Obama campaign, however, by personally criticizing them. We must welcome everyone and avoid doing Republican work for them. It is therefore incumbent on all of us who once supported Senator Clinton to welcome the thousands who should now switch their support to Senator Obama. Similarly, a necessary part of the healing process for our Party is for those who supported Senator Obama early to have the grace and good sense to broaden the tent and welcome newcomers into the fold."

He's right.

He's an opportunist.

What position in in an Obama administration do you think he is shilling for?

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Oh come on. Go read his whole letter. It's a great letter. He's right. I doubt your premise, but don't care.

Mo Udall used to say that when Democrats form a firing squad, they stand in a circle. I worked in his field campaign in 1976. That was the year that a lot of Dems got so mad at each other that some of them voted for John Anderson instead of Carter.

We are about to go there again. Read all the comments from people who would never vote for the other DEMOCRAT that they don't support. It is just stupid, criminal, and a disaster for the country we claim to love if we allow this petty bickering and name calling to hand the election to McCain.

Being in Iowa, I have been listening to the criticisms of the Democratic candidates for nearly a year. None of them were perfect, but any one of them would be better than any one of the Republicans who started the race. OK, maybe not Gravel. Yet here we are, trashing each other like a bunch of idiots, and McCain is making his stately way from CNN to MSNBC this morning and swatting at softballs. It is getting on my last nerve.

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"Mo Udall used to say that when Democrats form a firing squad, they stand in a circle. I worked in his field campaign in 1976. That was the year that a lot of Dems got so mad at each other that some of them voted for John Anderson instead of Carter."

Not so. Mo Udall did run in '76, but John Anderson ran in 1980, when Reagan beat Carter.

Andrews is a WIMP.

He does not speak for us. He can go screw himself! (just like he did Hillary)

Obama is a LOSER. He will cost us the election and all because we "can't take it away from a black man"

He's a black man that happens to be a black theology believer: i.e., a black racist and white hater.

His wife Michelle has proven that he knew all about that church's theology and that the both agreed with it; "America is a mean country" ... she's not proud of American... Obama dissed all those who wore lapel pins... people who cling to guns and religion, he looks down on.... women are "punished" with babies....

They are LOSERS!!

John McCain should have been easy to defeat, but the Democratic Party is self-destructing right before our eyes. The party is now deeply divided along racial lines. Race relations have been set back 40 years. (Also, a whole new generation of young voters may soon become disillusioned and abandon ship.) I blame all this on Hillary Clinton and her staff. They saw the only way they could have a chance at beating Obama was to go negative,creating endless doubts about his character. Well, being Black IS part of his character. This nefarious strategy worked extremely well. Obama, as much as I like and admire him, is damaged goods. I offer this radical solution: How about a deadlocked convention - a convention so terribly deadlocked that someone else emerges as a compromise candidate - John Edwards, Al Gore, Christopher Dodd, whoever? As far as I am concerned, 2008 will go down in history as the year Bill and Hillary Clinton destroyed the Democratic Party. If Hillary gets the nomination (as she now may), I will vote for her, and then engage in some ritual cleansing activity - perhaps a sweat lodge ceremony.

First of all, SERIOUSLY how old are people in this country. It is an election why all the name calling?

Secondly, I find it laughable that the actions of someones pastor are the most important story in this country. If it was the most important thing to a persons character, than I am a coke and heroin dealer. I am not, nor do I feel a former pastor of mine has any reflection on my character. I admit Obama was closer to Wright than I was to my pastor, but when will people in this country realize that no one can be held responsible for the actions of their friends. All you can do is respond, and how you respond defines your character, not the other person's actions.

Third, why are there no headlines, Hillary unable to cut into Obama's lead among younger voters and blacks. Since neither is going to win without either's support base why are we fighting so venomously. Just because Obama doesn't get some factory worker's vote, and Hillary doesn't get the college kids vote doesn't mean one will lose and the other won't.

If people stop acting like babies in the (D) caucus maybe we can win in Nov.

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Just a reminder to some people:

Article. II. - The Executive Branch

Section 1 - The President

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Article. VI. - Debts, Supremacy, Oaths

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States

Its funny how someone can be behind for a day or two and its doom and gloom.

Those numbers will come back up, even though the Clinton's are doing there best at destroying obama through smears and lies. Here is Bill Clinton today, calling Obama elitist and out of touch. Bill is doing the Repubs work for them, because the Clintons care more about themselves then the democratic party:

Former President Bill Clinton was in West Virginia on his wife's behalf. In Clarksburg, he called her a scrapper and contrasted her appeal among working-class voters with the elitists he said support Obama.

"The great divide in this country is not by race or even income, it's by those who think they are better than everyone else and think they should play by a different set of rules," he said. "In West Virginia and Arkansas, we know that when we see it."

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Any polls out to tell us how the candidates are doing with African Americans and young voters? Or do only working class whites "count"?

Obama has 99.99% of the AA vote. That's a given.

Funny how amidst all these enlightened post-racist Obama supporters and all these quoted demographic groups, I don't believe I've ever seen anyone mention Hispanics. They're people. It's true. And there are more of them than there are AAs.

Obama has 99.99% of the AA vote. That's a given.

Which proves (a) that "AA" voters are racists or (b) they're losers.

Unless of course, you mean Alcoholics Anonymous voters. In which case there's Option (c): drunk.

Just approximating here, but AA's are about 10% in IN, 30% in NC, white blue collar voters are about 80% in IN, 65% in NC.

If Obama had waited his turn, she'd have all the Dem support and we'd be well on our way to winning the Presidency.

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If Obama had waited his turn, she'd have all the Dem support and we'd be well on our way to winning the Presidency.

Waited his turn? Waited his turn?

What is this? A presidential election or the line at the school cafeteria?

Waited his turn.

Waited his turn, my ass!

I'm sorry, but Hillary Clinton does not get to be president because "it's her turn." Nobody gets to be president just because they think they deserve it. They have to earn it. They have to fight for it. They have to win delegates.

And she lost. She lost Iowa, South Carolina, Alaska, Idaho, North Dakota, Delaware, Utah, Kansas, Connecticut, Alabama, Colorado, Missouri, Minnesota, Georgia, Illinois, the Virgin Islands, Nebraska, Louisiana, Washington, Maine, Democrats Abroad, District of Colombia, Maryland, Virginia, Hawaii, Wisconsin, Vermont, Texas, Wyoming and Mississippi. And she only tied New Hampshire and Nevada.

She lost all those states because she didn't try hard enough, and she didn't plan well enough. She acted like it was just her turn, but that's not how it works.

Damn it's fun to write it all out like that!

"If Obama had waited his turn..."

Get in line, is that it? I don't recall Democrats choosing a nominee based on lines. And if that was the case...Gravel would've been our nominee. What a great argument you've found.

Obama Losing White Working Class Dems To Hillary In Landslide

Awesome. Because as I've said before, the black voters that Hillary is losing to Obama in -- what's bigger than a landslide? a tsunami? -- a tsunami, are all sitting around and lighting cigars with $100 bills, while feeding caviar to their exotic pets. Oh, and they all have swimming pools filled with gold, like Uncle Scrooge. Apparently, ever since we let them use our bathrooms, African Americans have been taking over corporate America and completely eliminating poverty in their own community. Amazing!

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This, of course, is the downside of this extended nominating process. Hillary will not win the nomination, but her campaign (along with the Republicans and pro-Hillary groups like the American Leadership Project) will continue to hammer away at Obama, hurting the Democratic nominee going into the fall.

This is why Hillary should have dropped out when the odds against her became nearly insurmountable. Instead, she continues to press her quixotic case, unable to admit to herself the horrible damage she is doing.

Hillary Clinton should be ashamed of herself.

What if she bows out but the two of them don't feel like shutting up?

What if she bows out but the two of them don't feel like shutting up?

right...she should have dropped out, ok...

so what does she say to the 13,917,318 of us who voted for her? sorry, better luck next time?

what does she say to the states that haven't voted yet? sorry, the press and certain democratic circles think I'm done, so see you next election cycle?

let's be serious.


She's not going to drop out. She is going to win Indiana, and, possibly even North Carolina. If she wins North Carolina, Obama will concede. Many upper income and college student Obamanauts will have nervous breakdowns. Some may even try to harm themselves. Black Obamanauts will be pissed at Obama for screwing up his chances of running as Clinton's VP. Ultimately, the Obamanauts will blame Daschle, Kennedy, Kerry and Axlerod for getting Obama in over his head. Clinton will go on to win the Presidency, because McCain can't beat anyone except Obama.

Billy, what are you smoking? Obama concede, you wish.

Obama is crashing. Maybe he'll pull it out before Tues., maybe he won't.

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You're funny.

Sorry, better luck next time.

sorry, not going to happen.

they fight 'til the end. if obama can't defeat clinton (and btw it is SO not over yet) he sure as hell can't beat mccain.

those are the facts.

If she wins the pledged delegate race, she deserves the win, it would be highly impressive to me. I've said that before. If she doesn't though, she doesn't deserve the nomination. The odds of that happening are ext