Obama Responds To McCain: "Strong" Presidents Aren't Afraid To Meet With Enemies
Barack Obama, in Montana, responded moments ago to McCain's ridicule of the Illinois Senator for saying that Iran is a minuscule threat compared to the former Soviet Union.
McCain said this revealed Obama's "inexperience and reckless judgment." Here's the key part of Obama's reply...
"Here's the truth: the Soviet Union had thousands of nuclear weapons, and Iran doesn't have a single one. But when the world was on the brink of nuclear holocaust, Kennedy talked to Khrushchev and he got those missiles out of Cuba. Why shouldn't we have the same courage and the confidence to talk to our enemies? That's what strong countries do, that's what strong presidents do, that's what I'll do when I'm president of the United States of America."
Obama also said: "What are George Bush and John McCain afraid of"?
This sort of thing will thrill Democrats who want to see how a Democratic presidential candidate will fare if he adopts something other than the oft-employed "hawkish" rhetoric that's supposedly necessary for Dems to win an argument with Republicans about national security.
Judging by these early skirmishes between McCain and Obama -- who appears to be trying to do nothing less than redefine what it means to be "strong" and "tough" on foreign policy -- we may soon find out.
Late Update: Here's video of both Obama and McCain...















Right on the money. Little did I know this election would provide a history lesson to all those who need one.
May 19, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the education will continue until morale improves!
May 19, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Is Dana Perino taking notes?
May 19, 2008 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
From 1st Peter, 3:
Do what is right; then if men speak against you, calling you evil names (like appeaser), they will become ashamed of themselves for falsely accusing you when you have only done what is good.
From 1st Peter, 5:
Feed the flock of God; care for it willingly, not grudgingly; nor for what you will get out of it, but because you are eager to serve the Lord."
Bush, having been both Espiscopalian and Methodist, and McCain, having been both Episcopalian and Baptist and perhaps onto a third religion, should know the Word of God and conduct themselves accordingly.
Pick your own passage! An evil tree cannot bear good fruit and a good tree cannot bear evil fruit.
May 20, 2008 8:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
He has a spine and a brain! This has been so much fun.
May 19, 2008 1:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
"What are George Bush and John McCain afraid of"?
Did he really say that? Really?
I've been waiting years for someone to ask that.
Thanks for making my day, Senator Obama.
May 19, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed. This is exactly the way Obama should be framing his argument.
May 19, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Same here. Long have I waited for the Democrat who was willing to acknowledge that the War-Hawk emperor has no clothes on. I am liking this election better and better with each passing day of late.
May 19, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like this election better with each passing latte.
May 19, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I like this election bitter with each passing latte.
May 19, 2008 4:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have renonced my bitterness for hope.
May 19, 2008 9:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Piling on -- the absolutely perfect one sentence response!
May 19, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry to keep repeating this, but it's important: hundreds of thousands of US citizens may lose right to vote with new proof of citizenship requirements.
May 19, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the second weekday in a row, Obama responds forcefully, accurately, and with the kind of measured intellect that definitely thrills this voter.
Time to attack scare tactics and out them from the start. A little reference to history is much appreciated.
May 19, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain, one word: Buttslammed!
May 19, 2008 1:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bam! Another bruising by Obama!
McCain is going to be in pieces by November.
May 19, 2008 1:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dentures fly.
May 19, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
;)
May 19, 2008 3:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Once again, to quote Flounder:
"Isn't this GREAT???!!"
May 19, 2008 9:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Also, apologies for a far less insignficant insert, this back and forth between McBush and Obama leaves Hillary where she belongs.
How's that for a "who's the winner" message?
May be Hillary should send a memo to McCain feeling pissed about it and s stuff.
Hillary stay in the primary as long as you please, meanwhile the GE race is on and clearly you're not in.
Bush and McCain are gifts that keep on giving.
May 19, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I mean far less significant...obviously.
May 19, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly!
It's obvious McCain knows who his opponent will be.
One thing you have to say about the Repugs ($1 to Tena): They apparently are better at math than anyone in the Clinton campaign.
-
Obama/Olbermann '08!
May 19, 2008 2:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think Obama just barack'd McCain's world.
May 19, 2008 1:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Barackarate(TM)
May 20, 2008 7:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
I know! Obama behaves exactly how I want a Democrat to behave....forceful, but measured. Intellectual, but grounded. Driven, but not power hungry.
I LOVE BARACK OBAMA! A once in a generation candidate!
May 19, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pres '08 -- Gallup Poll
May 19 McCain (R) 45% (-3), Obama (D) 46% (+4)
May 2 McCain (R) 48%, Obama (D) 42%
What best explains McCain's collapse?
Bush - McCain fear to negotiate foreign policy?
Bomb Iran song and dance?
Reverend Rod Parsley and Hagee damage?
Involvement in a AZ land deal scandal?
Expanding upheaval in McCain's campaign over lobbyists?
Slippery hold on past political courage and independence?
What explains his slide?
May 19, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
As another poster put it a little earlier in the campaign:
I. Drink. Your. Milk. Shake.
May 19, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Or since it's to McCain, maybe he should say:
I. Drink. Your. Ovaltine!
May 19, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice.
May 19, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I.Drink.Your.Ensure
May 19, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, the Cuban Missile Crisis, precisely. What better example to contrast the 'cowboys' with the 'negotiators'. The negotiators in Kennedy's cabinet won out. If the cowboys had their way, we'd have been at war on our own turf.
May 19, 2008 2:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
If the cowboys had their way back then, we wouldn't be here.
May 19, 2008 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly.
May 19, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not just "war on our own turf" but we now know they had operational tactical nukes in the field in CUba at the time of the crisis, with standing orders in the field to the commanders of the batteries to use them if attacked. If we had gone all cowboy (ala Curtis LeMay) we would have ended up in a nuclear holocaust. If you haven't seen Fog if War, it will make you hair stand on end.
May 19, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ugh.. Fog OF War.
May 19, 2008 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
SECOND
SEE Fog of War It gives a tremendous number of facts that help establish (other sources supporting) that dropping the bombs were unnecessary.
Had we done better diplomacy during WWII, with the enemies, the outcome would have been earlier, with far fewer deaths.
Errors: FDRs 'Unconditional Surrender' from the earliest summits with England and Russia. Truman; refusing to allow the Japanese Emperor to remain as a figurehead leader of the country - allowing the Japanese culture to retain some self esteem to move forward in the aftermath of their decimation.
In conjunction with Standard Operating Procedure, Morris's films can add a tremendous blow to McCain's built and stuck in the Cold War mindset. Given that he is unlikely to become anymore coherent or eloquent in his comments than the dismal performance here; this is one of the three big pillars in defeating voter trust in the GOP: national security, fiscal responsibility and abuse of government power (wire tapping, etc)
Replacing it with a 21st Century, new millenia foreign policy of enlightened self interest.
May 20, 2008 3:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
Another good example is Reagan chatting up Gorbachev. I don't recall McCain getting his knickers in a twist about that one at the time.
May 19, 2008 4:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dunno about McCain particularly, but the conservatives actually did give St Ronnie quite a bit of heat about it. And they were wrong then like they are now.
May 19, 2008 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
The significance of the negotiations that went on during the Cuban missile crisis is that sooner rather than later there might be Round two. This is because Russia has stepped up its military ambitions around the world.Notably its strategic bomber forces have increased presence into western territories and the Russians have already expressed their disgust at the proposed Nulear early warning system in former eastern bloc countries. British RAF typhoon jets encounter Russian Tu-95 Bear bombers on the fringes of British airspace every month.And we know of the recent interception of the same Russian planes by the USAF F22/A Raptor fighters. The world military stage is fast changing and the US will need a CiC who will be able to read the game well, thereby securing the future of his/her people. That or engage an increasingly capable enemy into another pointless war. Diplomacy wins hearts. Wars lose lives.
May 20, 2008 7:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
When the dems have their nominee, we will see a rallying around Obama like we have not seen (and have so desparately needed) since W's 10.5 minutes of fame atop a smoking heap at ground zero. People want a winner.
Luckily, McCain has so much baggage, Obama need not destroy him. In fact, their Senatorial blood ensures this; they both know how the game is played.
Speaking of the Senate, Jim Webb needs to stay where he is. VA is not likely to replace him with another Dem, and he is a powerful anchor for the New Way.
Bombing Iran in Aug/Sep will only hurt McCain, and I give it about 80% chance at this point. It will have the opposite of the intended effect. And the GOP can only go along for the ride!
Lanslides are made of this stuff.
Pax,
M.
May 19, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with everything you've said but I would hate to see an Obama landslide come at the price of war with Iran! It might be good for the Dems in the current context, but it would be bad for the world, not to mention another huge mess for Obama to clean up once he finally takes over.
May 19, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
McBushCain: The War Hybrid that is fueled by Fear.
May 19, 2008 2:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Obama -- who appears to be trying to do nothing less than redefine what it means to be "strong" and "tough" on foreign policy..."
Obama is not "redefining" what it means; he is just returning to the original meaning of the words; it's been Bush et al. who redefined "strong and "tough" to mean "sticking one's head in the sand."
May 19, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
"But when the world was on the brink of nuclear holocaust, Kennedy talked to Khrushchev and he got those missiles out of Cuba"
That's right, the world was just magically on the brink of nuclear holocaust. Kennedy himself had nothing to do with that; he just walked into the office one morning and bam, brink of nuclear holocaust not that I expect Obama to criticize Kennedy given that he's the next JFK).
Of course, Obama's the same guy who said he won't set preconditions to meet, but there will be preparaiton. Caught Edwards take on that on CNN yeterday; even Edwards doesn't understand the difference.
May 19, 2008 2:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cuban Missile Crisis -- look it up in your history books.
We spot Soviet nukes in Cuba, ask Nikita WTF?
The world would've been on the brink of nuclear holocaust, if not handled correctly. There was dialog, and the Russians got rid of the missiles.
I don't see what you think Obama got wrong, here.
May 19, 2008 3:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
By "preconditions" Obama means non-negotiable topics, predetermined outcomes of the negotiations. He is willing to talk without taking anything off the table.
He has, however, said that face-to-face meetings between heads of state would be preceded by groundwork-laying meetings by underlings.
May 19, 2008 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
McBushCain: The War Hybrid that is fueled by Fear.
More War Years! More War Year! More War Years!
McCain of the Panderosa is the lost little maverick that the Cowboy from Crawford slapped his War Monger brand on.
More War Years! More War Years! More War Years!
May 19, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank You Obama, this made my day better.
May 19, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
What a tactic.
GOP He-Men Bush/McCain: Pussies.
May 19, 2008 2:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Barack Obama โ Muslim apostate?
"Once branded as an apostate, President Obama would face enormous difficulties in the foreign policy realm, especially in the fight against terrorism."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080519/cm_csm/yburki
THIS IS EXCELLENT NEWS!! FOR OBAMA!!
May 19, 2008 2:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aaaaaand we've reached full circle.
May 19, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Excellent news indeed. When lies are all you've got ... you've aint got much.
May 19, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
According to Islam, all children are originally Muslim. So according to (il)logic of this article, President Bush is just as much a Muslim apostate as Senator Obama.
But let's call it like it is. This article is concern trolling at its worst. Offensive and ludicrous.
May 19, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
How can one be both a Muslim, Christian, and an apostate?
I'm telling, that Obama really does appeal to a diverse constituency, doesn't he?
May 19, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Since logic has escaped you and others, I just want to point out any terrorist would love to assassinate the POTUS. Obama would not be in any more danger then Bush. Also, this Islamic law would have to be carried out in the state of his father's birth if they chose to follow that law. Since Obama's father renounced Islam long ago - while still in Kenya, and he was not kiiled, this should tell people something about how strictly this law is followed. Can't believe someone claiming to be a professor would actually put this fear-mongering crap in print.
May 19, 2008 3:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
But Obama's whole line is that unlike others he will be able to talk and negotiate with these enemies.
The truth may be that unlike others he is the only candidate they will refuse to talk with.
Great.
May 19, 2008 3:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you really belive that???
You're just pulling my leg, right?
May 19, 2008 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't read international news much, do you, fogu2? You might try it, possibly you'd sound a little less like an ignoramus if you did.
May 19, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I used to respect your dissention, but this is just too stupid. Apologize and I'll still read your posts.
May 19, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did not write the article. It's from the Christian Science Monitor.
Terrorism from Islamist radicals is the number one security and foreign policy issue.
Obama may want to talk to the enemy but they don't want to talk, they want to kill him.
What is his next move.
Great foreign policy on tap with Obama the apostate.
May 19, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great--fogu2 is proof positive that sometimes there is simply no reasoning with people, and violence is the only possible answer. Bring on the dirty bombs.
May 19, 2008 3:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
You base your judgements on articles from the Christian Science Monitor? Why not The Onion?
May 19, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Agree, people need to read a book. Technically Obama isn't apostate because his father 'abandoned' him as did his paternal grandparents. Therefore he is his mother's religion not his father's according to Islamic law.
Get a clue, stop spreading stupidity.
May 19, 2008 4:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
I've spent some time in those countries and can respectfully say that you and the author of the article have no idea what you're talking about.
They see Obama as a man of principle, raised in a Christian nation, whose world experience gives him some idea of their culture rather than prejudging it.
There is nothing in Obama's attitudes that they would take as an insult to Islam, which is the only reason they would have to hate him in advance.
And the idea that all Muslims are fanatics who think as the article assumes is just plain crazy.
May 19, 2008 5:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is not an apostate by any recognized Islamic standard and even if he were it would have exactly zero effect on his ability to deal with Muslim countries. The truth from someone who has actually studied Islam and backs it up with checkable facts.
http://www.juancole.com/2008/05/is-obama-apostate-or-bush-reply-to.html
People who know nothing of Islam or the Islamic world shouldn't comment on it. Let alone write ignorant and inaccurate articles. Of course, that applies to all subjects but people seem especially prone to that form of stupidity when it involves the evil "other".
May 19, 2008 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for the URL; I've saved it on my desktop for future rebuttals.
May 19, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Um, no.
The number one security and foreign policy issue is our economy and entire way of life, leveraged to the hilt and based entirely on dead dinosaurs, is headed for a grinding halt as the era of cheap energy slips away.
When that happens, and your neighborhood has gone all Mad Max on you, you'll wish that some shadowy fundamentalists half a world away were the number one issue.
May 19, 2008 11:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just goes to show you that a SMART president is much better than a DUMB president!
Vote Smart in 2008.
May 19, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's discussion position is easily discernable. Preconditions are requiring specific behaviors or acts from a country as a prerequisite JUST to talk. Preparations involve lower level talks, getting together the agenda, working out issues that may be solved at lower levels, gaining knowledge of who you're dealing with, who has the real power, all sorts of things. What Obama is saying, is that he will talk face to face with leaders, without requiring a country to acquiesce to our demands beforehand (which they wonโt do anyway). Itโs pretty simple really.
May 19, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
But for those that are scared understanding these simple concepts is not obvious and when they try to hide their fear by being macho through cowboy diplomacy the nuance and rational though simply go over their heads by default.
May 19, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Great McCain Debate:
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/H/7/2/mccain-debates-himself-lk05.jpg
May 19, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
On the scale ranging from Reagan v. Mondale at one extreme to FDR v. Smith on the other extreme, I think this one is going to fall somewhere right around Clinton v. Dole. I have always maintained that Obama would be a stronger general election candidate than he is in the primary.
McCain is already looking like he's phoning shit in without thinking. He's going to stumble bad enough, and it's Tuzla II: Electric Boogaloo. But I don't even think obama needs for McCain to have a moment like that. I think he is going to steadily, but not in an overreaching way, hammer on McCain with the strong arm of a steady carpenter.
And I don't know if McCain--who is 71, not used to being told what to do, and having to walk a line between being appealing and being "conservative" enough for the base--is up to it. In fact, I know he's not up to it. Instead of being insistent yet tempered, his insistence comes across as ill-temper. Or worse: that sort of grandpa-talking-to-child-idiots tone he gets. He's not quick enough not to be hampered by resorting to message, because his message changes every day. And where it is steady, it's just Bush revisited.
There's a reason McCain was almost politically dead a year ago: he sucks at politicking. and there's a reason he's where is is now: because in a field of flakes (Rudy), punkinheads (Thompson), Mormon greenhorns (Romney), and the All Too Evengelical for the Norquist Group's Taste, Thank You Very Much (Huckabee--the best candidate they had), he was the least objectionable.
The waiter came and the GOP ordered a Ronald Regan Baked Potato, and they were told that the restaurant was fresh out of baked potato. So the GOP ordered carrots, because that's what you order when the restaurant is out of baked potatoes.
Ladies and gentlemen, I present John McCain: the carrot with all the goodness boiled out of him.
Fun campaign coming up.
May 19, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
To say nothing of that weird and, frankly, creepy arm raise thing he does when greeting crowds. He looks like a Mummy when he does that. That alone will cost him PA.
May 19, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
haha, there it is: http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000224/23afp1.gif
May 19, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't go there. That's as far as he can lift his arms as a result of the torture he suffered in Hanoi. Of course, you'd think he kind of remember that when voting to allow the Bush admin to continue torturing folks, but that's another story. Seriously, though, he physically can't lift his arms any higher than that.
May 19, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's from his war injuries. He cannot raise either arm level with his shoulders.
May 19, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Holy shit! Are you serious?! I had no idea!
May 19, 2008 3:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aye, 'tis true, but hardly relevant to being patently unqualified to be President, unless one wants to physchobabble into McCain's torture-addled pate.
His policy positions need no such analysis; they suck of their own accord. It's all the same neo-con End of Ends bullshit.
Watch McCain sing his cheer at the slaughter of Iranians later this summer as unspeakable death rains down from the skies upon them.
Pax,
M.
May 19, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. I was just totally fucking around, responding to Lars' mature and well-thought out criticism with a satirical childish one. Damn. Now I feel bad.
May 19, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nah, feeling bad leads nowhere. McCain is what he is, and was it long before we were born.
May 19, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, you can still mention the annoying whistle he has when he talks, like someone with loose dentures. Imagine listening to that for the next four years. No, don't.
May 19, 2008 4:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
So what's up with the blinking?
May 19, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Cut the man some slack on that--apparently he can't raise his hands above his head due to the injuries he suffered in 'Nam.
May 19, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Think I popped a vessel laughing at that one
Tuzla II: Electric Boogaloo
May 19, 2008 4:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you. Post 'o the Day!
May 19, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see swooning superdelegates.
May 19, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
At this rate, he'll easily pass 2025 by June 3.
May 19, 2008 3:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
2025 is not the magic number.
May 19, 2008 3:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh? Let's hear this...
May 19, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe it was sometime back that because of elections of positions that automatically made the newly elected Sds that the number is now IIRC 2,210.
May 19, 2008 3:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
hahaha, did you run that sentence through babelfish first?!?
Try again.
May 19, 2008 4:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hahaha. I'm sure you are an overuser of commas in your "profession".
Read it the way it's written and voila! you will either have a revelation or need to seek new employment.
May 19, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm really not being some Internet punctuation nazi, I honestly have no idea what you're saying. It's an incoherent sentence.
If I were given that sentence in my profession, I'd either ask the author for clarification or just send it back for a re-write. Like I'm doing now.
May 19, 2008 4:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I believe...
it was sometime back...
that elections of positions...
that automatically made the newly elected SDs...
the number is now....
2,210
'Kay
May 19, 2008 4:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, the first part is still gibberish.
But, your point is still wrong. The number is 2026 (according to the DNC).
May 19, 2008 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Here ya go: http://www.democrats.org/page/-/pdf/20080515_allocation1pgr.pdf
May 19, 2008 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Okay I sorted out my misrecollection.
The 2,210 includes Florida and Michigan. I expect those delegations will be seated at which point the DNC will change the number to 2,210. It's only 2,206 becasue they haven' officially seated them yet...but they will
If not, I expect lawsuits to fly by convention time.
2,210 is the number.
May 19, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
The DNC disagrees.
May 19, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
In effect you are just saying that the number that actually clinches the nomination according to DNC rules is 2026.Period! BUTthe goalposts would shift to accomodate FL & MI? Only, this new number is just a fallacy.The true number remains 2026 and no ammount of triangulation would change the DNC rules mid-game. For FL & MI to be re-seated a compromise will be agreed by both camps that takes into consideration the following factors:
1. FL & MI did not follow the rules
2.Obama's name was not on the ballot in MI
3.Point 1 and 2 Vs the actual results of these two primaries.
May 20, 2008 7:39 AM | Reply | Permalink
For the record, you are a tasteless racist tiny little person. That you insist on this particular picture tells us everything we need to know about your emotional age, which never made it past 14, 15 tops.
Go back and get that first date in junior high. You'll find a more receptive audience, to be sure.
Pax,
M.
May 19, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the record?
Bwahahaha.
May 19, 2008 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
C'mon. Bring it on. What is magic number?
May 19, 2008 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
My guess it's whatever the Clinton has decided this week it should be.
May 19, 2008 3:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why is McCain stammering and stuttering? Has anyone notice how he appears weak? I think his response was spot-on. However, Barack had to not appear to be beating a women in the primary and now has to be careful not to appear to be beating on an elderly man.
May 19, 2008 3:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
CLARIFICATION: I think Obama's response was spot-on.
May 19, 2008 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
A President Obama will have not unmade one political party, but both. The Clintonian politics is as dead as the GOP's cohalition of the very afraid. It puts all 50 states in play. Sen Obama needs to find a way to reach them.
I am troubled that Sen Obama did not reach out further to WV and KY. He will be president for these folks, too.
Pax,
M.
May 19, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's plenty of time in the general for Obama to reach out to all 50 states.
The primary campaign is over; there was no point in him making Hillary's life any more difficult in WV and KY. Let her go out on a high note.
May 19, 2008 3:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
FDR vs. Smith?
Unless in was in some obscure primary I don't know about, FDR never ran against anyone named Smith. In his presidential races, he defeated Herbert Hoover (1932), Alf Landon (1936), Wendell Willkie (1940)and Thomas Dewey (1944), who later defeated Harry Truman.
Peace,
Paul
May 19, 2008 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Al Smith was one of the contenders for the 1932 Presidential nomination, which Roosevelt won.
I don't know whether they ever met in a primary, though.
Looks like a brainfart on Lars' part.
May 19, 2008 3:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good for Obama, though a word of caution. It's not advisable to call any threat to Israel, or any other country, miniscule.
I understand the comparison he was making but his words can be twisted.
I can already hear McCain and Bush responding that all it takes is one nuclear weapon to destroy Israel.
I can hear them searching through history looking for every action taken by the Iranian National Guard, assassinations, human rights violations, and mass killings and asking "Is that miniscule?"
And more importantly, what Iran has often stated about wiping Israel off the map cannot in any way, ever be considered a miniscule threat.
Again, I understand Obama's point. But I also understand the twisted tactics of the neocons.
I have no way of making this point clear to the Obama campaign so if anyone has contact, they might benefit from the suggestion.
May 19, 2008 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't worry. Hillary briefed him this morning at 3am.
May 19, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
"miniscule threat" is, I believe, McCain's terminology.
Obama called Iran, Venezuela and Cuba "tiny" compared to the Soviet Union (if you track back to the video) and went on to say, more or less, "and we still met with the Soviet Union". He didn't say they were a tiny threat, period.
May 19, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
And I noted that, in McCain's rant, he made every effort to avoid the fact that Obama used the word "tiny" comparatively.
-
Obama/Olbermann '08!
May 19, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nit:
Regarding the "wipe from the map" quote that gets used over and over everyone, who hasn't already done this, should check out Juan Cole's interpretation of that line. The quote is a quite literal translation. That is, it doesn't mean destroying Israelis as we tend to interpret it, it simply means republishing the atlas without Israel and with Palestine in its place.
I know for some even that's over the top, but it shouldn't be that surprising to hear from states that still don't recognize the legitimacy of Israel words that tend to back up their position when they're talking about boundaries on maps. None of the other Arab and semi-Arab nations surroundng Israel recognized its legitimacy until they did... after negotiations.
This is how Republicans get themselves twisted into knots and painted into corners. They fall prey to their own over-heated rhetoric. What a bunch of failures.
May 19, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
It isn't Iran's threat to Israel that is under discussion here, it is Iran's threat to the United States. The United States is the country Obama is running for president of.
May 19, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
The other important point about the Kennedy reference is that Kennedy was derided by Nixon as inexperienced during the 1960 campaign. Kennedy did make a "rookie" error when right after his inauguration and against his own instincts he went along with the plans for the Cuban Bay of Pigs invasion (April 1961) which had been developed by the "experienced" Eisenhower administration. Kennedy took full responsibility for the fiasco, and never again doubted his own judgment as to what to do with the Soviets. The successful conclusion of the Cuban missile crisis (October 1962) proved how masterful the young JFK was, the same age then as Obama is now.
McCain can stick his experience, and his old ideas, where the Sun doesn't shine.
May 19, 2008 3:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain wants to continue all of Bush's failed policies, both foreign and domestic. Only crazy people keep doing the same thing over and over, and keep expecting different results.
Come on America. Try something different. Vote Obama2008
May 19, 2008 3:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dude, McCain can't raise his arms over his head because what was done to him while he was a POW. I'm no McCain fan by any stretch of the imagination, but I think we can lay off him for that.
Besides, there's plenty of other stupid shit we can make fun of him for. He's practically got a political bullseye hanging from his neck.
May 19, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, I've already been scolded. I wasn't aware of that.
May 19, 2008 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
If it makes you feel any better, rest assured in the knowledge that, unlike Democrats, Republicans would be using a similar affliction on Obama's part in 527 ads, and Sean Hannity, Brit Hume, et al. would be worrying about whether or not Obama's time in a POW camp had left him "stable" enough to act as president.
Frankly, these guys are already acting like they're gonna get right in the sewer, and their campaign looks like it's going to be one long "Is Obama American Enough to Be President?" marathon.
Fuck John McCain. He looks like the crippled, not too bright, senile old prick that he really is.
Nothing should be off the table until the Republicans agree to a cease fire.
May 19, 2008 4:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's response about Kennedy talking to Khrushchev doesn't exactly refute Obama's statement at the MSNBC debate in which he said he would meet without preconditions with Ahmadinejad of Iran. Kennedy didn't meet with Khrushchev over the Cuban missile crisis, nor would he have done so without preconditions. Sounds like Obama is not so subtly trying to shift the focus from his misstatement in the debate and redefine the argument into the merits of negotiation. That still leaves McCain with the ability to attack Obama's original statement in the debates.
May 19, 2008 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did not the US communicate with the USSR during the crisis?
May 19, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
While Kennedy did not meet face-to-face with Khrushchev during the Cuban missile crisis, there were in fact exchanges of letters (telexes I suppose) during the crisis. These were effectively negotiations. There is an anecdote that Khrushchev sent two letters in succession to Kennedy. The first was businesslike and offered some compromise. The second was warlike and offered no room for maneuvering. Kennedy ignored the second letter and responded to the first. The rest is history.
As anyone who lived through those days in October can testify, the threat of Iran right now to the US is piddling in comparison. McCain is off his rocker if he tried to compare Iran's threat to the US now to the threat posed by those missiles in 1962. Obama has to hammer McCain on this point.
May 19, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
What Obama misstatement? As far as I'm aware, he's stuck to that position ever since.
May 19, 2008 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hope you feel nice and loose after all of that bending over backwards.
What we have here is one of the good guys kicking the shit out of the last 8 years of Neo-Con bullshit without even breaking a sweat. Why can't you just relax and enjoy it?
May 19, 2008 11:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is the right response from Obama. No back pedaling. You take a swing at me, I going to aim for your teeth.
Amazingly, McCain is setting himself up for the exact same problem that Bush has had for four years. "We need to stay in Iraq until it is better, but I don't know what that means or when it might happen." The public is onto that game by now.
May 19, 2008 3:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of Iran, nukes and appeasement; I would like to ask Senator McCain for his position on Pakistan. Here we have a horribly unstable nation already in possession of nuclear weapons. Worse yet, Pakistan has supplied their nuclear know-how to the highest bidder (courtesy of A.Q. Khan)! What has the U.S. government done in response? Weโve given them more military and economic aid! In a nutshell; weโre giving that country money so we donโt have to worry about them (or whichever proxy they sell to) using their nukes in a โunsavoryโ way. Sounds like appeasement to me...
May 19, 2008 3:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama drank...his...MILKSHAKE!
May 19, 2008 3:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
This episode shows how we'll win.
Obama deals out a "What are Bush and McCain afraid of?" instead of a "They're trying to make American's afraid." Make the point that it appears to be the Bush Republicans who seem to be scared of every little terrorist, every little dictator.
We're going to be Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, once again.
May 19, 2008 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
But for those that are scared understanding these simple concepts is not obvious and when they try to hide their fear by being macho through cowboy diplomacy the nuance and rational though simply go over their heads by default.
May 19, 2008 3:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Apart from his experience as a POW, which we all honor, what exactly has McCain ever done to prove that he has sound foreign policy judgment? As far as I can tell, nothing.
May 19, 2008 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Amen.
May 19, 2008 4:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I second (or is it third) that!
May 19, 2008 4:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's the Forbidden Question!
Someone's on to us!
Media Defense Squad encircle McCain!
"POW! American Hero! Maverick! POW!"
May 19, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
But, but, but, what about all of that EXPERIENCE?
;-}
May 19, 2008 11:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
The irony is that if Iran had nuclear warheads, we would have no choice but to talk to them, and everyone knows that.
May 19, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
That were Dubya and his huggy buddy McCain, when one took us into an unwarranted war by cherry picking information, and the other enabled and still supports it, wholly.
When McCain shouts "inexperienced" and "reckless" he should be talking to his mirror.
May 19, 2008 3:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Check out the Real John McCain. Video of some of his contradictions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c
May 19, 2008 4:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
All evidence points to one answer: Barack Hussein Obama!!
May 19, 2008 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I seriously cannot wait for Obama to push Grandpa's buttons and watch him come unhinged. It will happen at some point between now and November. Guaranteed.
May 19, 2008 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
2 fogu2--
Once again, you're wrong: energy policy is the #1 security and foreign policy issue.
Issue #2 is rescuing our foreign policy portfolio from Halliburton and KBR's board of directors . . .
May 19, 2008 4:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Senator Obama is on the right side of this argument. Just like the gas tax--a no-brainer.
May 19, 2008 4:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now if he's just as quick to the draw with the swiftboaters as he has been with Bu$h and McCain, we're in for a memorable election!
May 19, 2008 5:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's the Forbidden Question!
Someone's on to us!
Media Defense Squad encircle McCain!
"POW! American Hero! Maverick! POW!"
May 19, 2008 5:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Finally, finally, finally a Democrat refuses to assume a defensive crouch when it comes to national security. Notice the reaction of that crowd, standing ovations, sustained applause to a blast of fresh air from a new kind of Democrat.
I don't think it is possible to underestimate the impact of this kind of approach. Not only is he taking on Bush, McCain and the neocons but also the pentagon, defense contractors and all of the folks in Congress that thrive on their dime, the embedded media and their generals, the chronically insecure armchair warriors, the whole war machine.
The number one priority for picking his Vice President is that they share this approach to national secuity.
May 19, 2008 6:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. Obama - dare I say it? - hardly sounds like a Democrat! Or rather, he's saying what the Dems should have been saying all along, instead of caving to Bush & Co.
May 19, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, Heaven help us all if Obama gets control!!
YIKES...
All Hill supporters listen up: If Hillary doesn't get the nomination, we all need to stick together and vote for McCain!!
At least he'll keep us safe until 2012!
May 19, 2008 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice snark!
May 19, 2008 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
What would be fundamentally different and superior to Senator Clinton's response to McCain?
May 19, 2008 11:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Failing that, you could immigrate to China, or Myanmar, or any other dictatorship, where they will keep you very, very safe. If that's all you value.
May 20, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I definitely agree with Omama's position on this, yet I have a nagging fear that he may be phrasing it with too many words. That many my not hear him clearly or especially that many an independent with not enough time to listen closely will find a McCain/Bush sound bite that is easier to ruminate upon.
Maybe Obama needs a sound bite like (but better than) "Talk and Confirm our strength and will!"?
[*and our will can be good will if you are rational.]
May 19, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
At this point I don't even care if Obama is right on this. He is exposing the McBush bullshi* for what it is. Who knew he had well, some backbone. Talk about teticular fortitude.
Frankly, I don't think people are as interested in the issues surrounding this argument as how the candidates handle the argument itself. They want to see that Obama has some backbone, he wins on all the other issues - the foreign policy one I think is mostly one of strength.
I know I am biased but McCain just comes off as dishonest. I think he would be better served just to argue on the merits. I understand why they want to paint Obama as inexperienced but I just think the way they are doing it comes off as ridiculous.
May 19, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
What is McCain afraid of?
Given that Iran has already offered to shut down Hezbollah, McCain must be terrified that peace might break out. The GOP would be destroyed as part of the collateral damage.
May 19, 2008 10:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
For God's sake, Otto, Kennedy met Khruschev for a summit in 1961, more than a year before the Cuban Missile Crisis.
As for Rae, if you really think another four years of idiotic cowboy bluster and reckless warmongering will make us safer--go ahead and vote for McCain, who makes no secret of wanting to continue Bush's policies (both in terms of foreign policy and economics). Just remember that you'll also be voting to take away women's abortion rights, opportunities for just and equal pay, etc. Four more years of Bush--yeah, that's the ticket!
May 19, 2008 11:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama will meet with his Muslim friends: Enemies of America.
Do not take my words for it, Read Obama's own words from his books:
From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'
From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mothers race.'
From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'
From Dreams of My Father: ; 'It remained necessary to prove which side yo u were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names."
From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself, the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'
From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'
May 20, 2008 12:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is scary that people think this is some "yay-raa-raa" scorcher for Obama. Obama's response only strengthens McCain's criticism of him.
Sure, the Soviets had "thousands" of nuclear weapons. Fortunately for us, we had 8 times the nuclear weapons the Soviets had. Clearly a position of military strength.
With the world on the brink of nuclear disaster, Kennedy had no choice in talking to Khrushchev. Worse, it was *because* of Kennedy that Khrushchev decided to put the missiles in Cuba. In previous talks in Vienna, Khrushchev had decimated Kennedy. Khrushchev thought Kennedy a naive, young intellectual. Kennedy called the Vienna conferences "...the worst thing in my life. He savaged me... He thinks because of the Bay of Pigs that I'm inexperienced. Probably thinks I'm stupid, too. Maybe most importantly, he thinks that I had no guts."
That's precisely what Khrushchev thought and exactly why the world was brought to the brink of nuclear war. Khrushchev did not doubt American power; he doubted Kennedy had the balls to use it. Khrushchev saw in Kennedy the opportunity to grab the upper hand. Kennedy had done nothing when the Berlin Wall went up, further asserting Khrushchev's notion Kennedy lacked backbone.
"Kennedy talked to Khrushchev and he got those missiles out of Cuba." Well, actually, through emissaries and secret meetings and a lot of back door diplomacy, Kennedy and Khrushchev, each with a loaded gun to the other's head, made the agreement that the Soviets would remove the missiles from Cuba, and the U.S. would remove missiles from Turkey (which the Soviets considered the equivalent of missiles on their doorstep).
I'm glad Obama is calling Bush on the carpet, but really, Kennedy's handling of the Cuban Missile Crisis - a crisis brought on by dictators eager to test the mettle of a young, idealistic president - is maybe not the best example to cite.
May 20, 2008 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink