Obama Campaign's Post-Oregon Tally: We're 62 Dels Away From Nomination
The Obama campaign has just released its official delegate tally after last night's voting. They claim they are now 62 delegates from securing the nomination.
Here are their totals from last night:
Oregon: Obama 31, Clinton 21Kentucky: Obama 14, Clinton 37
And here are the Obama camp's totals overall:
Edwards pledged delegates now supporting Obama: 9Obama Pledged Delegates: 1,647.5 (20.5 more than needed for the majority)
Obama Superdelegates: 307.5
Obama Total Delegates: 1,964
That puts them within 62 total delegates of 2026, which the Obama camp is pointing to as the magic number. The Hillary campaign, of course, is disputing this, arguing that Florida and Michigan should be seated.
Right now, we can't be certain of how the Rules and Bylaws Committee will rule on Florida and Michigan on May 31 or how this will affect the nomination battle. Suffice it to say, however, that as Obama's total continues to mount, it becomes more and more likely that he will secure the nomination even if the RBC sat the two states' delegations in precisely the manner Hillary hopes.
And that's something that very likely won't happen, anyway.
Doesn't the DNC set the magic number? Who cares if Clinton disagrees? She's running for the Democratic nomination and that means the first to 2026 wins.
Btw, how many delegates is Clinton away from 2026?
May 21, 2008 12:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree, who cares what Hillary is arguing? It is all over except for the whining.
May 21, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
the rules and bylaws committee's solution will set the magic number. the DNC is not willing to say that it's 2026 right now.
May 21, 2008 12:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
SOMEBODY came up with 2026 and it was the DNC. Didn't they just update the number (it was 2025 or 2024.5 a few weeks or months ago). The only people talking about a different number are the Clinton campaign and its supporters. Suggesting that it is an open question only encourages them.
May 21, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
that's actually not quite accurate. the DNC believes that it's in the interests of the Dem party as a whole to solve the florida and michigan situations. that's why they want the RBC to convene to solve them. until that happens, the DNC is not willing to use that magic number.
May 21, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, we need a link or something here. The DNC rules stated at one time that the number needed to acquire a delegate majority in 2008 was 2,025. It was then increased to 2,026 because of the special congressional elections (IIRC). So, when did his change and why wasn't it publicized?
May 21, 2008 1:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree. Greg, can you please clarify this with an official confirmation from the DNC?
May 21, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eh? Why do you need a link? Just do the math. Take the total delegates, remove FL and MI and divide by 2. There's several other scenarios out there and hopefully after May 31 we'll know the new number. Here's the possibilities, as compiled by DemConWatch.
I don't think there's any question the "magic number" will change after 5/31. But by that time, Obama will very likely have accumulated enough SDs that when you add in the delegates he will take from MI and FL, he'll be close to or over the new magic number.
May 21, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think you are way off base here Greg. The rules committee is going to seat the FL and MI delegations precisely because it does not matter. At this point there is no real reason for the Obama camp to oppose.
While people are going on about 'the rules' as if they are sacrosanct here. The fact is that the rules make it abundantly clear that there can be no final decision on the matter until the conference. Those are the real rules, not what the Obama camp or the blogosphere claims. All it takes to bring the issue to the floor is a 15% minority of the rules committee willing to vote to report it to the floor.
Since a divided convention is clearly a disaster and since Clinton certainly has the 15% necessary to force the issue the only real choices Obama has are to accept seating the delegations and put a happy face on it, or attempt to delay the decision to a point when they can tell if it would matter.
Obama cannot oppose a motion to seat the delegations at the convention without causing harm to his own position. Once it goes to the convention it becomes an up/down vote, no ammendments.
The priority for the party at this point is not to protect the unjustified position in the nomination process of Iowa and New Hampshire or pander to the factions in the blogosphere who are going to vote the same way regardless. The group that Obama has to win over now is the Clinton demographic.
There are three more contests either way and Obama is almost certain to come out on top in terms of pledged delegates either way.
May 21, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks Greg.
May 21, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, they did, and I, too, would like to know why they are waffling now --- if what Greg says is true.
May 21, 2008 1:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you sure, Greg? The official number that I'm aware of in securing the nomination is 2026.
May 21, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, you really should clarify this because this would be quite explosive if the DNC backed away from the 2026 number that they'd been touting since the Childers race.
May 21, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.democrats.org/page/-/pdf/20080515_allocation1pgr.pdf
May 21, 2008 8:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Latest Delegate Counts
With 2,026 delegates needed to secure the Democratic nomination under current rules, here are the updated delegate counts:
NBC: Obama 1,954, Clinton 1,783
ABC: Obama 1,956, Clinton 1,766
CNN: Obama 1,953, Clinton 1,770
CBS: Obama 1,953, Clinton 1,770
AP: Obama 1,956, Clinton 1,776
Meanwhile, First Read gives a behind-the-scenes look at NBC's superdelegate counting operation.
May 21, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but that does not seem to jibe with the tripped-out trigoalgebralculus that the Clinton campaign has invented.
Apparently, this is a new branch of math that works tremendously well when trying to artificially trump up a dead campaign.
But no so well when trying to balance said campaign's books.
May 21, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
The DNC Web site PDF on delegate allotment says 2026.
May 21, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Updated 5/15
http://www.democrats.org/page/-/pdf/20080515_allocation1pgr.pdf
May 21, 2008 8:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Long time key aide to the Clintons urges Hillary to reject votes of racists, and advises her to tell them that she does not want their support.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/05/21/ec.seg.gergen.cnn
May 21, 2008 12:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pigs will fly over a frozen hell before Hillary shuns her base of so-called "hard-working, WHITE Americans."
Gergen makes a damn good point, though, I must say. It was really tragic to see her go down that road, and destroy her and her husband's legacy in the process.
May 21, 2008 12:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nailed it.
Some HRC Troll was whining last night when I posted a similar sentiment and cried: "what about the 92% black vote for Obama in NC."
Such a specious argument.
These same black NC voters have been voting for white candidates for YEARS. They aren't "anti-white," they're "pro-the first black to have a real chance to be President." They were Clinton supporters mostly until the Clintons played the race card in SC.
These Appalachian whites, on the other hand, will NEVER vote for a black person.
I doubt they would vote for Jesus Christ if he was black.
I've watched these type of people for years. They're in SE and southern Ohio too. They're racists. They live in an atmosphere where racism is accepted and embraced.
As Gergen said last night, HRC should reject votes like these based solely on racial animus.
May 21, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just like Deep East Texas. Same damn thing.
It's a way of life. I used to have a friend from Palestine, Tx, which is East Texas. I finally told her I just couldn't take it anymore - she would not quit using the n***** word all the time.
I haven't talked to her now in 6 years.
May 21, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg's saying that the DNC has backed away from the magic number to secure the nomination. This seems to be really false to me. He has to provide proof that they're saying this. Put up or shut up, essentially.
May 21, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ouch. Good for you. Not fun when this happens between friends (or family...).
About 10 years ago on Easter Sunday, my former brother in law (a small plane pilot) talked about eating chicken in his plane while flying over Chicago and dropping the bones so the blacks "down there" could enjoy them. :-O And this was in liberal Minnesota, the only state to vote for Mondale in '84. Yah, it was Easter and all, you want to make happy talk with the in-laws but I had to give him a piece of my mind and did so. So racism comes in all flavors and locations, sad to say. But yes, you gotta call it out.
May 21, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tena, Buckeye, listen to yourselves. For all your decrying of racism, you are exhibiting a shameful amount of prejudice and condescension towards "these people".
Yes, there are a lot of people living in East Texas and in Appalachia who hold racist beliefs. There are also a lot of folks there who don't. There are also a lot who question the racism and prejudice that they have been taught, and even more I suspect who are capable of rejecting those beliefs if they were to really think about it,which they are not likely to do based on being called hillbillies and accused of marrying their cousins. (OK, obviously I'm responding to some comments made elsewhere and by others here...not just Tena and Buckeye.)
Feel free to attack wrong-headed beliefs, but I am sick to read comments attacking people based on stereotypes based on who they are or where they live - it's no better than that stupid frisco-disco ad that was featured on TPMEC yesterday.
Obama has shown a lot more empathy for the voters who don't vote for him than you have. Perhaps you might think of following his example.
May 21, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good for him. And this is coming from someone who's advised presidents of both parties. I've always gotten the impression from what he says on TV and in print that Gergen is a decent man. I wish she'd listen to his advice.
His observation that it's not just sexism going on in this primary season is spot on.
May 21, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Perfect timing too, now that Appalachia has voted and Puerto Rico is coming over the horizon. I expect a whole new Latin Hillary in coming days.
The white working class was so last night.
May 21, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
When Clinton got ridiculed in the media last year for that supposed drawl that crept into her speech during the MLK event, I was furious at the media for focussing on such a trivial and ridiculous issue.
But her accent changes from region to region--she's demonstrated that during this election. Can we expect a new Island accent from Senator Clinton?
Or will it be the OutWest accent, for Montana?
May 21, 2008 1:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Too bad Jamaica isn't a US territory. I'd love to see her attempt a Rastafarian accent.
May 21, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
he will secure the nomination even if the RBC sat the two states' delegations in precisely the manner Hillary hopes
In which case Hillary would point to the superdelegates and say there are many reasons for which all 804 of them could change their minds, which is a right they have I would not dare to challenge.
Obama does not have 2210 guaranteed votes.
She will remain destructive.
May 21, 2008 12:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Music to my ears. {Eyes?}
If this is the case, then we'll start hearing, once again, from the Clinton campaign, that it's not the delegates that count (that was February's argument), but rather the popular vote.
And when tallying up the popular vote, all of Clinton's votes count, and none of Obama's.
May 21, 2008 12:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillar Clinton should be next president. Stornger candidate.
But if it is OBama or McSame, I am about Obama.
I am going to fight hard either way. I refuse to lose 3 in row.
Let's see what McSame hacker has to say to that.
Sad.
May 21, 2008 12:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, we're still not allowed to say he's won and celebrate.
You know, it's hard for me to believe that just last week Hillary seemed to have joined the Democratic Party again and I had fond feelings for her - even a little twinge of regret.
She sure stomped all over that with both feet.
May 21, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
You took the words out of my mouth, Tena. I was very impressed with Clinton on Friday, when she took on Bush and McCain.
The "slap in the face" language from yesterday erased those feelings.
May 21, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Quit while you're ahead" is not part of her mental makeup.
No, she's determined to go out as ignominiously as possible.
May 21, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Scorched earth, my dear. Scorched earth.
May 21, 2008 1:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
We can invent "Kumbayah" scenarios all we want, but there is really little to no chance that Hillary will step up and say the things necessary to really unite her supporters, and get them fired up and behind Obama. I'm sure we will get some weak talk of unity from Hillary, and some criticism of McCain, but there is no way in hell she will curtesy to Barack, and offer her unconditional support. She has run a cynical, self centered campaign, and at this point seems to be driven only by her sense of entitlement to the Presidency. Why would we think that is going to change??
May 21, 2008 1:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Remember the Clintons in 2000: After Bill's recklessness led to impeachment and damaged Gore's chances, the CLintons were outraged -- outraged I tell you -- that Gore wasn't properly enough beholden to them for all that they had done for the country. So they hoarded their contributors and carpetbagged their way to NY. They did precious little to help Kerry either because he wasn't grateful enough to them.
So what do you expect them to do for Obama? It's ridiculous on its face to think the Clintons will do anything to unify this party.
And the supers keep bowing to them, giving them deference. With each passing day, Hillary's supporters harden. She gives them reason to believe that Obama's nomination is illegitimate.
And the party stays silent. And the supers don't come out in sufficient numbers.
Hillary and Bill created this mess. The party is the one who is destroying itself.
May 21, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why is it that educated people won't vote for Hillary . . . I wonder
May 21, 2008 12:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Best and the Brightest
May 21, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
It will soon be all over for good.
And I will celebrate loudly.
HRC fans can cry but they LOST, fair & square.
Say "G'night," Hillary.
May 21, 2008 12:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Dallas Morning News certainly agrees with you - the headline this morning:
"Obama within 100 delegates of Clinching it."
May 21, 2008 1:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bit off topic, but note that Obama's victory margin in Oregon has increased to 18% per CNN, with 90% of precincts (or whatever it is for a mail in election) reported.
May 21, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yea!
May 21, 2008 1:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Math problems, Greg.
May 21, 2008 1:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
and---when and if other pols start showing numbers similar to those of Zogby, and she is running 20 points worse against McCain than obama in Pennsylvania----she will just say----look how bad the poll numbers were for obama last October. The people can change their minds.
She is John belushi begging Carrie Fisher not to shoot her in the sewer scene in the Blues Brothers movie.
May 21, 2008 1:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
What magic number does the Daily Blumenthal use, Josh?
May 21, 2008 1:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I still wanna know why the 2,026 number vanished!
May 21, 2008 1:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Same here too!
May 21, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
The networks and major news organizations have been using it.
So it must be correct, right?
: )
May 21, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
What Greg's insinuating runs counter to the prevailing opinion about the number needed to secure the nomination. He needs to back this assertion UP NOW. Where's the report of the DNC saying they won't use the 2026 number to determine the nomination?
May 21, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
My sense? The DNC wants Florida and Michigan seated. To use 2026 as the "magic number" is to say "Buh Bye, FLA and MI". The DNC doesn't want to do this publicly.
The Obama campaign, and the networks, are abiding by the existing rules. The DNC knows that Florida and Michigan have to be included, in spite of the existing rules. So my guess is that it doesn't want to talk about 2026.
Btw, I don't think there's anything sinister in Greg's comments.
May 21, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Then what does it do to the Obama talking points memo up in Greg's post?
May 21, 2008 1:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those talking points are consistent with what would be necessary with FL and MI excluded. With reality as it is today, in other words.
What will reality be two weeks from now? Who knows? But you can bet it will be with FL and MI included.
May 21, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure that if the number changes on May 31 it will be with the blessing of the Obama campaign. What concerns me is that Greg says above that the DNC isn't willing to accept right now that 2,026 is the number. Seems to me the more correct way to say it would be to say, "Yes, the number is currently 2,026, but that could change when the Rules & Bylaws Committee meets May 31."
In essence, Greg's contention that the number had somehow vanished - and this whole mess, to some extent - is eerily reminiscent of the 2000 general. Throw in a candidate with some degree of consolidated power and the attitude of a terrier and it makes an Obama supporter a bit wary.
Maybe my concern is unwarranted.
I sure as hell hope so.
May 21, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem, of course, is that if they seat the two delegations based on their rogue primaries, they are guaranteeing that they will have this problem (calendar control) in the next election. They will be seated, but they will not be seated in a way to swing the election to Clinton.
May 21, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh yeah. The Dems have created a monster on their hands, because seating MI and FL doesn't create any incentive for any other state to follow the rules.
But MI and FL have to be seated.
In the long run, this might portend real change in the primary process, which would be good.
May 21, 2008 1:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Kos has a post that cuts straight to the heart of this bull crap.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/21/103836/968/89/519608
May 21, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah nice post, Lamont. I chuckled my way through it, but in fact, this "popular vote" meme was not altogether stupid on her part - she managed to confuse the thing and a lot of people, which of course, was deliberate.
All along what I could sense she was trying to do and in some senses she succeeded, was to try to make this seem like Bush v Gore.
That is what is behind this nonsense - she was convinced, and I guess still is, that if she can get people to believe her lie about what it at stake here, they will take up her cause in order to defend the "popular vote" which doesn't exist.
May 21, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama's pledged del count is actually 1656.5, plus 307.5 supers, equals 1964.
Please update, Greg.
May 21, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Forget Hillary as a rival to Obama. She's done. I've used the analogy that this has been a 12 round boxing match in which one fighter was ahead 7 to 2 after 9 rounds. What we've been watching is the last 3 rounds is the fighter losing on all cards desperately going for a knock out that never came.
Now, the 12th round is over and we are waiting for the official announcement. Both candidates are holding their arms up but everyone except the losing boxer and her corner know the other guy won. And the announcers, trying to fill up time and build excitement, are pretending the judges didn't see the first 9 rounds of the fight.
May 21, 2008 1:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gotalife faker - total BS
I stand with the dems, always have
I decided to have open mind yesterday - now stalker is trying to make me pay.
He is the real radical kool aid.
May 21, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Great.
Just give Florida and Michigan to McCain and drink the kool aid.
May 21, 2008 1:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm beginning to suspect you work in the marketing department of Kool-Aid.
May 21, 2008 1:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am so in favor of tying up Michigan and Florida, gagging them and locking them in the basement until this is over that I cannot recommend it strongly enough.
The fucking powers that be in those states have managed by breaking the rules to fuck this primary up from hell to breakfast. And still insist on being rewarded for fucking up and breaking the rules and making this whole thing far more complicated than it had to be.
That is not Democratic Party's fault. It is not the DNC's fault. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the state officials in Michigan and Florida and I wish everyone who disagrees would take it up with them and shut up about it elsewhere.
May 21, 2008 1:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Paging Jennifer Granholm....and Carl Levin....Hello? Nice work, people.
May 21, 2008 1:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
You forgot to ad that it was not the voters or candidates fault. Why should any of the parties who are not at fualt suffer damages?
They shouldn't.
They won't.
May 21, 2008 3:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Everyone say GFT to the gotalife troll
Totally pathetic. BS McSame stalker.
If Obama wins with the real math, those are the rules. No, I do not like.
But I am man enough to support a dem over a gop.
May 21, 2008 1:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't beleive the fake gotalife who I'm responding to! I'm the real one. Each day, I'm going to donate $50 to the Obama campaign in protest of all the fake gotalifes on this page. Every day I will donate until there are no gotalifes left but me, the real one. Who's in to match me?
May 21, 2008 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
If you don't have $50 a day, how about $1 for every negative post that the fake gotalife makes?
May 21, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rita,
Your math is the same as Greg's. He just breaks down the subsets further and classifies the 9 Edwards switches in their own category
May 21, 2008 1:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chuck Todd of MSNBC has a very interesting article about the Magic Number goal, and how it it will probably change.
He also pointed out, last night, that the majority of undeclared super delegates are from states that Obama has won, which will make it almost impossible for Hillary to persuade them to support her.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/21/1047416.aspx
May 21, 2008 1:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a good Democrat who had an election stolen from his presidential candidate in 2000, this erasing or changing of numbers scares the crap out of me.
Is Katherine Harris working for the DNC now?
May 21, 2008 1:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't like it either. Hillary moves the goalposts and everybody says: "O, ok," and just follows right along.
Fuck Michigan and Florida. They did it to themselves.
May 21, 2008 1:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are you willing to carry this attitude forward to November? If Obama's in a close general will this still be your view towards these states? It seems wholly myopic to alienate 2 very important states over an issue that is simply resolved. Luckily, I believe that the RBC will realize the importance of these states and seat them in some sort of compromise deal.
May 21, 2008 3:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
The popular vote theory is full of holes (and shit I might add) because there is no vote totals for five causus states and why should their vote and votong preferences be eliminated! DO NOT TRUST hte clintons intil they are completely out of it. Do not concede any delegates from FLA or MICH!
May 21, 2008 1:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/21/obama-clinton-supporters-both-say-clinton-attacking-unfairly/
May 21, 2008
Obama, Clinton supporters both say Clinton attacking unfairly
Posted: 06:36 AM ET
From CNN Ticker Producer Alexander Mooney
Clinton and Obama supporters both said Clinton attacked unfairly.
Clinton and Obama supporters both said Clinton attacked unfairly.
(CNN) — Even in a state Hillary Clinton appears to have won by 35 points, a majority of Kentucky voters say the New York senator attacked Barack Obama unfairly.
According to the exit polls, 54 percent of voters said Clinton launched unfair attacks on Obama, though that didn't seem to deter voters there from supporting Clinton — 55 percent of those who said Clinton attacked unfairly still voted for the New York senator.
May 21, 2008 1:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
CT - this is not fair to the states who followed the rules.
Maybe it would have been to some other state's benefit to break the rules, but they didn't and how is that fair? It's not - the rest of us are being penalized by Florida and Michigan who were warned about the ramifications of what they were doing and did it anyway and now get a king's x - and take it all back.
How the hell is this fair to the rest of us?
May 21, 2008 1:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Intereseting.
I went to Babelfish and selected the Obama to English translation for "We're 62 Dels Away From Nomination".
It return: F#*@! Florida! F#*@! Michigan!
May 21, 2008 1:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
May 31
2,210 needed
FL/MI:
Clinton: +178 delegates
Obama: + 67 delegates
Current count:
Clinton: 1955
Obama: 2031
A 76 delegate difference.
Clinton still the best choice and closing in.
May 21, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
In other words, he's winning either way. Thanks for the clarification.
May 21, 2008 1:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
Winning, not won.
It ain't over, not even that close.
This will go to the convention or to a judge.
May 21, 2008 1:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
You better hope not - that's an invitation to a split party and a big ass loss.
I am not sanguine about the idea of a judge settling this, and what's more, I do not think the Democrats will allow that.
I do not think it will go to the convention. Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have already said it's not.
Obama is within 100 delegates of clinching it.
May 21, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm glad you approve of Stalinist election practices: let's give an entire state's delegates to one candidate.
Yeah, That's the kind of president we want.
May 21, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, but courts have consistently held that political parties can run their nominating procedures any way they want to, so long as they aren't discriminatory on age, race, or gender grounds.
May 21, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
No it won't.
The Supers won't let it. This ends June 3.
May 21, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Looks like somebody got banned.
How long were you down, Fogu2?
May 21, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're not paying attention.
Go eat a can.
May 21, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Further proof I've been trolled.
As vitriolic as I've been in the past - I have never told anyone to "eat a can". Honestly - I don't even know what that means.
I do know however what a McCain presidency means, which is why I will back Barack Obama if he's nominated. Right now I don't see any scenario where that won't happen.
May 21, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can somebody please explain to me why is Obama so opposed to FL and MI?
Since everyone talks about how he already won, it would only help him in November to mend the FL/MI rift right now.
What would he lose at this point by advocating a full seating of FL and MI? What does he win by opposing it?
It defies common sense. There's gotta be more than we know behind all of this.
May 21, 2008 1:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
As far as I know, nobody says Obama is against it.
I am against it, me personally. I have always had big problems with rewarding entities for bad behavior and that's just what the DNC is doing for Michigan and Florida, who knew what they were doing, did it anyway and now get a Mulligan.
It sucks. It is not right. It is not fair.
The other 48 states followed the rules - why should we let two states who chose their own fate get out of that fate now?
Goddamn!
May 21, 2008 1:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
The voters did nothing wrong. They must not be penalized. The vote must stand as is. Let them sanction the parties that approved the primary date. No one else should be penalized. Obama chose to forfeit MI. Too bad loser.
May 21, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
And that's not hurting Obama supporters in MI how?
May 21, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
He chose not to be on the ballot.
He forfeited.
Tough luck.
His supporters only have him to blame.
May 21, 2008 2:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately my troll forgets again...
My candidate, Hillary Clinton, said Michigan wouldn't count. I hardly think it's fair to hold Obama at fault for playing by the rules.
It would be nice to square the circle and make Hillary the nominee, but it would be blatant subversion of the democratic process.
I will not be a sore loser. If Barack Obama is the nominee, I'm going to support him. Enough of this scorched earth game - the ramifications of 4 years of John McCain have terribly broad implications for the entire world. We can't afford to play misanthrope.
May 21, 2008 2:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe it does. But if he's so interested in getting the Clinton base, wouldn't it just make so much sense for him to actively support seating them? Why hurt his own FL supporters? Why risk FL/MI if he's such a fan of the 50-state strategy?
It doesn't make sense
May 21, 2008 2:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama chose to observe the rules of the DNC. HRC said, essentially, "screw you". As do her supporters. Keep it classy, kids.
May 21, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
The voters elected their state's representatives. Perhaps we should give them a reason to re-evaluate those decisions.
May 21, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would someone please respectfully enlighten my troll? I'm hoping he's just a misguided democrat, but at this point I"m growing a bit suspicious.
It's fine to support Hillary, but what's not fine is to distort numbers, let's leave that to the Republicans.
Just think of it - If Hillary and Barack were working together last month, they would have raked in 53 million dollars. What a team!
I'm hoping for VP, but if not - again - like I've said a million times - I'm hoping she can get involved on the health care campaign. Hillary has done so much for this country, and broken so many barriers for women, that I think she should be rewarded.
Let's work together for a change.
May 21, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let's have a civilized debate.
It's a shame, if my Fogu2 troll wanted to talk issues without trying to drive wedges, maybe we could really resolve some things.
Instead, he's behaving in a way that shames all of us Clinton supporters.
Let's have some substance for a change, instead of trying to pick a sectarian fight.
Who's with me?
May 21, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
The DNC nomination rules are opposed to letting Florida and Michigan get away with breaking the rules they agreed to.
Obama did not make the rules, and he does not enforce them. Get it now, Block Head!
May 21, 2008 1:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Politicians always stick to first principles.
This is the same guy that became the Dem nominee for State senate by getting everyone else kicked off the ballot.
Voter Supression: It's not for Republicans anymore!
May 21, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmmm. Seems to me it was the Obama campaign who was willing to seat both FL and MI, but HRC said no.
Will someone please explain to me why Hillary Clinton agreed to abide by the rules but is now backing away from that?
Can we expect the same behavior as President? Yes.
May 21, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton: 255 from the nomination
Obama: 179 from the nomination
May 21, 2008 1:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
There are only 86 total pledged delegates left in the remaining primaries.
In other word until FL and MI are resolved there will be not nominee.
May 31
2,210
To the convention or a judge.
May 21, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
It is interesting that you bring up "or a judge." A federal judge has already ruled MI's primary unconstitutional. In other words, for all intents and purposes, the MI primary has never happened. As such, while I fully expect MI to have a delegation at the convention, it will not (indeed cannot) be seated according to the preferences of the voters because the voters of MI never had a chance to express their preference. With that much in mind, you might want to revise your delegate totals, because you are assigning delegates based (at least in part) on a vote that never happened.
May 21, 2008 2:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please provide a link to this ruling.
MI voters did have a preference. That Obama chose not to be included is his fault alone.
May 21, 2008 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
With pleasure.
No one doubts it. My point is not that MI voters had no preference, but that they have had no meaningful opportunity to express their preference. There has been no election in that state that meets the requirements either of the civil authorities or of the party's own rules. The election held there in January is no more binding than the straw poll at the Iowa state fair.
May 21, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
They didn't say the primary was unconstitutional.
They just said the law regarding voter lists unconstitutional.
I gave you more credit for sanity than you apparently deserve.
This from the article you cited:
"-- A federal judge on Wednesday ruled Michigan's presidential primary law unconstitutional and blocked the state from giving voter lists from the Jan. 15 election to the state's major political parties.
U.S. District Judge Nancy Edmunds agreed with the American Civil Liberties Union, arguing on behalf of several small political parties, that the law's provision giving the list of voters' partisan preference only to the Democratic and Republican parties violated the rights of other parties. "
May 21, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
The law under which the January primary took place was declared unconstitutional. There is, as such, no legal basis for the January vote. Meanwhile, the January contest was never sanctioned by the Democratic Party. As such, neither the state of MI nor the DNC stand behind that vote. It is no more meaningful than the straw poll at the Iowa state fair. I could set up a box in the Univ of Michigan student union with a sign soliciting passers-by to drop "votes" for Obama or Clinton in and this would be as meaningful an expression of the will of the voters of MI as the January election. There has been no lawful vote in MI, and thus there is no possible way to seat delegates according to the will of the voters of MI.
May 21, 2008 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
My troll seems to not comprehend the mathematical difference of 76.
I admire his tenacity, but for all intensive purposes, this race is over. What I want to see is a united Democratic party taking on John McCain, a party where Hillary and Obama supporters are working TOGETHER, rather than feuding.
May 21, 2008 1:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Only in the HRC New Math Bizzaro World.
LOL
May 21, 2008 1:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Dream on. Until FL and MI are resolved there will be no nominee.
Clinton rightfully will insist on seating them as voted.
Obama cannot make a case that the voters should be penalized.
May 21, 2008 1:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
It doesn't matter what Clinton or Obama think at this point.
Do you REALLY think the Supers are going to override the legitimate elections held so far?
I mean, I know you like stirring stuff up, but step back and take a look at what you are advocating. And then consider the chances of that happening.
The Supers are just waiting until June 3 to move in mass to Obama. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is NOT going to Convention. No way, no how.
May 21, 2008 2:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
If and when he gets 2,210 he can rightfully declare victory.
May 21, 2008 2:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only person here who should be legitimately penalized is my troll Fogu2, whose latest posts shame legitimate Hillary supporers.
I am a Hillary supporter, always have been. But bigger than that, I'm also a Democrat and and American. I think it's in distinctly poor taste to slander my party's nominee.
If Obama is the nominee, I will work for him full time. I wish it were Hillary, but I won't risk the chance of a McCain administration delivering a death blow to our country.
May 21, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary is now like that person who comes staggering and wobbling along ten hours after the marathon winner has crossed the finish line, and all the while trying to convince all around her that her meaningless perseverance will persuade the judges to take the trophy away from the actual winner.
May 21, 2008 1:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow, Shrillary gained 13 delagates - Obama's superdelegates must be slapping themselves silly for picking sides with the wrong candidate!
Oh wait, since Shrill's campaign keeps moving the goal posts and the "new number" is now 8,976 for the nomination (after the votes of MI and FL's wildlife squirrel and crocodile population is counted as well), it really won't matter much.
Boy, if I were Obama, I'd be terrified!!
HAHAHAHAHA
OBAMA '08!!
May 21, 2008 2:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Registered User - even with MI and FL counted, even with Shrillary getting 100% of the votes of MI (which she won't get), she's still behind!!
GIVE IT UP!!
May 21, 2008 2:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think it's ultimately his call. Even if he agreed to these dubious results, it's not his place to allow the rules to be broken with impunity.
The question that I keep coming back to is this: Can Hillary supporters really not see the complete lack of integrity in her pushing for these delegates to be seated exactly as she deems appropriate?
May 21, 2008 2:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't care - ends justifies the means.
But, doesn't matter. The DNC will resolve this with as little impact on the outcome as possible, so that the Party can move on to the GE. It's in everyone's best interests (COLLECTIVELY SPEAKING) to do so.
May 21, 2008 4:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama supporters here aren't understanding the real story here, Obama has won the pledeged delegate race even if Michigan and Florida are seated according to how the clinton camp wants. This means that Obama should start pushing for Florida and Michigan to be at the convention, thus taking all the air out of one of Clinton's main argument.
The rest of the primaries don't matter, it's up to the super delegates now.
May 21, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes! Seat them as they voted. All Obama has to do is agree to that and in all likelihood the DNC will do just that.
May 21, 2008 2:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
And when they don't (and we both know they won't), you will be screaming about what a travesty it is for democracy and disenfranchising voters and so on and so forth.
You are becoming very predictable, Fake Fogu.
Howard Dean said long ago that they will be seated. But, I assure you that it will be done in a manner that will not create an advantage for Hillary. In the end, MI and FL will be seated, their votes will count, but we will have Obama as the nominee. You should prepare yourself for that.
May 21, 2008 4:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Besides, as I posted earlier, superdels pledged from day one to support the leader of the pledged delegates - THE FIRST ONE TO REACH 2,025!
There's NO WAY the rules committee will allow the goal posts to be moved to 2210 - both Chuck Todd from MSNBC and John King from CNN said they'll split in the middle and it'll be more like 2100 or something close to that when including MI and FL.
May 21, 2008 2:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you and thank the gods and goddesses of Reason and Truth.
whew!
I'm out for a bit.
May 21, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Are they on the rules commitee?
My understanding is that the majority on th ecommittee are staunch Clinton supporters.
The 2,210 represents a majority or all states and territories. It is not arbitrary. It is not moving the goal posts. The DNC moved them when they attempted to eliminate two of the state in the union.
Reason and truth will prevail. This nomination will not be stolen by a candidate who choses to disenfranchise two states.
May 21, 2008 2:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
And this nomination will not be stolen by a narcissistic, power-hungry, morally empty, Joe Lieberman-in-a-pantsuit who insists on stamping her feet and holding her breath like a five year old because she has now decided she doesn't like the rules she AGREED to because she's LOSING.
If you truly believe that the DNC will allow the delegations to be seated as IS you're more gullible than Hillary Clinton was when she believed W about the Iraq war.
May 21, 2008 3:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
What will be hilarious is watching in September, when Obama is on a nationwide campaign blitz for the White House - Shrillary will still be flying around like a gnat screetching about no one making the 2210 goal post her campaign concocted.
WAAAAAHHHHH!!!!
May 21, 2008 2:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Florida and Michigan will not be allowed to decide who the nominee of the Democratic party will be. They violated the rules that they agreed to. All the states that obeyed the rules are not going to reward Florida and Michigan's jumping out of turn, by allowing them to become queen makers. It is that simple. Florida and Michigan can piss and moan all they want to, but the rights of all the other states, that lived by the rules, are not going to be sacrificed in order to placate two malcontent willful rules breakers.
May 21, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Even Donna Brasille last night on CNN, who's on the Rules Committee, said there's no way the goal posts will be moved to 2210 - it's about 2100...maybe 2150 at the most. Even then, after SD and Montana, Obama will get a boost much closer to that new number.
And don't forget the SD's will be under enormous political pressure themselves - imagine if they went against the nominee who already made 2,025. That's suicide! NO ONE will allow themselves to do that.
It's Obama's for the taking, everyone!
May 21, 2008 2:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Donna Brazile is in the minority on the rules committee as regards who she supports.
May 21, 2008 2:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think my troll fails to realize.
Even if Hillary got Michigan and Florida as is, it still wouldn't be enough. Believe me, if I saw a forseeable way for her to be the nominee, I would support it, but this is just foolishness.
Hillary and Obama supporters need to start uniting, working out their issues, so that we can team up to take on John McCain in November. United we'll be an undefeatable force.
I invite my troll - now called "registered user" - to join me in this new effort. I've got some redemption to get busy on.
May 21, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really must ask Shrillary supporters on here one simple question - had Obama won MI and FL, would they all be bitching and crying and moaning about these two states counting???
HELL NO!!!!
Why????? She, just like Obama and Edwards, signed statements that FL and MI would NOT count due to the moving of the primary dates.
Obama takes his name off of the ballot, as does Edwards, she leaves hers on in what (in her own mind) was a "brilliant strategic move" so she could jump all over this when she did win MI.
She then wins MI and FL and is suddenly all up in arms about the two states counting...yet before Super Tuesday, she couldn't care less.
Her hypocrisy is blinding, her excuses boring, her arrogance nauseating.
Good luck in 2012 when Obama's running for a second term and everyone will have already forgotten who Shrillary Clinton is!
May 21, 2008 2:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Once again, the rules committee are elected politicians...even if they do own a majority of that committee, they won't commit political suicide by voting against a candidate who already has 2,025 pledged delegates - why is this so hard for you to understand?????
Even if it was 8 out of 10 committee members being Clinton supporters, the chances of them going in her favor are remote in the extreme. And I'll take the advice of the political pundits over your Shrillary love crush anyday, thank you!
Common sense!!
May 21, 2008 2:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
Registered User has been OWNED!!!
Off to lunch, folks!
May 21, 2008 2:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ya think?
May 21, 2008 2:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Look, as the real Fogu - I have no issue with "registered user" trying to imitate me. He's upset that I've toned myself down.
I would say though - the Icon needs to go. I wasn't fully aware of how offensive it was to people until recently, and I'm VERY sorry for it.
If Registered user wants to talk about actual issues, I think we should welcome him to the fray and engage him. He is in fact a potential voter in November. However, if he just wants to try to throw a wrench in the gear, I'm not sure how much effect he can possibly have.
I still support Hillary, but not enough to squash my country's chances at righting its course should Obama be the nominee.
I invite as many of my fellow Clinton cynics to consider their options and come on board.
May 21, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
The story remains pretty much the same no matter what the magic number is. It is 2026 right now because of FL & MI not being seated so to get a majority of pledged delegates Obama needs 1626.5, Obama has 1653 with a few left to be allocated from OR.
If you include FLMI fully seated he will need 1783 for a pledged majority - he has 1784 with his MI/FL votes (allocating MI uncommitted to Obama). There are still 3 contests to go in which even if Obama totally tanks, he will get more pledged delegates.
As far as total delegates go - with MI/FL fully seated, he would need 2207, he has about 2090 so he would need 117 instead of 60 or so. It is likely that there will be a penatly for the states so that is worst case scenerio. Either way, the pledged delegates are what counts because the supers have 2 choices, they can either ratify the pledged outcome or overturn it. There is no way that they overturn the pledged delegates unless Obama grows horns or there is a picture of him cavorting with Bin Laden or something. Remember, these are Democratic 'leaders' they have no spine.
May 21, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's up with the bizarre Intrade window? It shows Gore now with 23%...... must be a typo.
Of course, it also shows that Hillary gained a 'huge' one tenth of one percent after her 'huge' KY win, to give her 'huge' 6.2% to Obama's teensy 92.6%.
May 21, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama is gonna freak after May 31. He missed his chance at a deal:
"If Mr. Obama is inclined to step forward with a generous proposal (read: olive branch) – seating all the delegates, for example, or at least a portion that Mrs. Clinton’s supporters find acceptable – he offered no such indications as he addressed a rally here today.
So before the race with Mr. McCain can begin in Florida, the Democratic delegate debacle must be settled. Today, there were few signs of a quick resolution – or that Mr. Obama even wanted to spend time talking about it.
Later this afternoon, when Mr. Obama takes questions at a town meeting in Kissimmee, Fla., we’ll see if any voters intend to raise the issue with him. "
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/21/obama-in-florida/
May 21, 2008 2:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
My troll seems insistant on trying to wedge us democrats away from each other.
The people of Michigan and Florida aren't dummies. When given the choice of Bush's 3rd term or a new Democratic vision for the country - they'll get on board with the Democratic party.
Personally I wanted Hillary. But it looks like it was not meant to be. So if it's Obama - he's got my vote, and I will work for him. I do hope however we can try to incorporate some of the more progressive elements of Hillary's platform into Obama's - namely the health care mandate.
May 21, 2008 2:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't have much brain power do you?
Obama has a big enough lead that he can seat FL & MI fully and will still win. Maybe you should read up on that math thing.
May 21, 2008 2:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
You mean "can" still win.
And you know what, so can Clinton.
Math is above.
May 31 = 2,210
May 21, 2008 3:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
No math, no reading comprehension - I smell homeschooled.
He has won.
May 21, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry. I know truth is something that is difficult for a lawyer to grasp.
May 21, 2008 3:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
That might help explain some of Hillary's issues.
May 21, 2008 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
You care to bet on that, poser?
May 21, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I have the solution: the DNC said the FL & MI delegates wouldn't be seated. Soooo.... let's count every delegate in both states, assign the "Uncommitted" MI delegates to Obama, then add them to the total, making Obama the winner. Then, since the DNC said they wouldn't seat the FL & MI - don't give the FL & MI delegates chairs at the convention. Make them stand the whole time.
Problem solved.
May 21, 2008 3:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
2210 = NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!
Once again - thick skull - rules committee, even though most are Clinton supporters, will NOT make the "magic number" at 2210!
This would be pandering to one candidate over another...and pandering to a LOSING candidate over a winning candidate.
Once again (and I'm sure not for the last time because in one ear and out the other), no member of that committee is willing to commit political suicide!
May 21, 2008 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
2210 = NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!
Once again - thick skull - rules committee, even though most are Clinton supporters, will NOT make the "magic number" at 2210!
This would be pandering to one candidate over another...and pandering to a LOSING candidate over a winning candidate.
Once again (and I'm sure not for the last time because in one ear and out the other), no member of that committee is willing to commit political suicide!
May 21, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
But go on and keep dreaming of that magical 2210...if that is all you Clinton supporters have left, then by gum stick with it. Your posse is definitely dwindling, but if that imaginary number is what gets you to sleep each night, then stick with it.
Snicker, snicker.
May 21, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Will do.
May 21, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
The mOnStEr is finished. IT is no more. May the mOnStEr rest in a large bottomed pantsuit peace.
May 21, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, brilliant - hey, can I steal your name, too??? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease??? Wow, you support Shrillary, I support a WINNING Obama and everyone on this site knows "HepCat" supports Obama.
Gee, will they really think it's me when I suddenly start spewing pro-Shrillary propoganda???
Go, have fun!
May 21, 2008 3:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
...well???? When are you gonna start, "HepCat"??
May 21, 2008 3:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, pseudo "HepCat," did you see Greg's other article about Shrillary being in the red?
Dig the last sentence and add that to the "political suicide" the rules committee members would commit if they supported Shrillary's requests for the fates of FL and MI, at least how she wants them.
Hillary is deep in the red, remember...
"By contrast, the Obama campaign has over $37 million on hand for the primary.
So that's where we are. Not a pretty picture for her. And this is certainly not something that will help make any kind of case to super-dels, to put it mildly."
Make that super dels AND rules committee members!
May 21, 2008 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey, pseudo "HepCat," did you see Greg's other article about Shrillary being in the red?
Dig the last sentence and add that to the "political suicide" the rules committee members would commit if they supported Shrillary's requests for the fates of FL and MI, at least how she wants them.
Hillary is deep in the red, remember...
"By contrast, the Obama campaign has over $37 million on hand for the primary.
So that's where we are. Not a pretty picture for her. And this is certainly not something that will help make any kind of case to super-dels, to put it mildly."
Make that super dels AND rules committee members!
May 21, 2008 3:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Doesn't matter if he CAN'T WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION WHICH HE CAN'T.
Hillary & Obama's respective wins shows who would be the stronger candidate in the Fall. And that is Hillary without a doubt.
He cannot win the general election.
He can't/WON'T win the following MUST WINS:
* OHIO OR FLORIDA
* PENNSYLVANIA
* MICHIGAN
* W. VIRGINIA
AND he can't win those that SHE WILL pick up:
* KENTUCKY
* FLORIDA
* MICHIGAN
There aren't ANY states that
* HE WON in this race for the nomination;
* and WILL WIN AGAIN IN GENERAL; AND
* THAT SHE TOO WOULD NOT WIN IN THE GENERAL...
However there are many as shown above, that SHE WON and WILL WIN IN THE GENERAL ;
AND THAT HE CAN'T WIN IN THE GENERAL.
He has a lot of CAN'T/WON'T WINS Where as she is favored to Win any that he can take in the general election.
And don't say Va.! Because McCain is WAY ahead in Va. and will take Va. That argument is FALSE and tired.... just like his krappy mantra: CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE... BLAH BLAH BLAH-BLAH BLAH !
How tiresome he is!! geeezzzee!! I have to change the channel when i see his mug. I can't stand to look at him any more OR hear his krappy tired speeches that seem to send his sheep/followers into swoons. I think he & his followers must all be ALIENS!! Aliens from the planet of CHANGE... they are seeking to go home to planet Change. Lets all pitch in and send them a ticket there....
LOLLLOLLLLOLLLOOLl;
Yeeiihiiaahhhhheeeeeiii!
rae
May 21, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is just empty bluster. The polls show him with a better chance of winning MI than she has. Meanwhile, the polls show her performing more strongly in PA, but both of them beating McCain in that state.
Well, it is impossible to know which states she would have won because she will not get the nomination. That said, he won the Colorado caucus and the polls show him beating McCain there but McCain beating her. The same goes for Wisconsin as well. Moreover, Obama has a shot at beating McCain in Alaska while the polls show no chance at all for Clinton there. In other words, while it is impossible to prove your claim here formally wrong, it has little substance based on the available evidence.
May 21, 2008 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Hillary Rodham Clinton says she is willing to take her fight to seat Florida and Michigan delegates to the convention if the two states want to go that far. In an interview with The Associated Press, Clinton was asked whether she would support the states if they continue the fight.
PUBLICIDAD
The presidential candidate said Wednesday, "Yes I will. I will, because I feel very strongly about this."
Clinton is calling for delegates from both states to be seated at the convention based on the primaries. "
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080521/ap_on_el_pr/democrats_florida_9
May 21, 2008 4:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hillary's the kinda fighter we need in the white house.
and she has good common sense.
May 21, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink