Obama Camp Uses McClellan Book To Parry McCain's "Baghdad Stroll" Attack
The Obama campaign is hitting back at McCain's attack today over Obama's refusal to accompany McCain on his next "Baghdad Stroll."
And the Obama camp has some choice ammo at its disposal: Former White House press secretary Scott McClellan's new tell-all book, which suggests President Bush misled the nation into war.
From Obama campaign spokesperson Bill Burton's statement:
"On the day after the former White House press secretary conceded that the Bush administration used deception and propaganda to take us to war, it seems odd that Senator McCain, who bought the flawed rationale for war so readily, would be lecturing others on their depth of understanding about Iraq. Senator Obama challenged the President's rationale for the war from the start, warning that it would divert resources from Afghanistan and the pursuit of Al Qaeda and mire us in an endless civil war."
The McClellan book really comes at a good time for Obama. Right when McCain is trying to focus the argument on the future of Iraq, and to raise general doubts about Obama's judgment, along comes a jarring reminder of the deception campaign that got us into the whole mess in the first place -- a campaign that McCain enabled, and that Obama saw through and opposed.
Late Update: The Republican National Committee is now pressing the issue, posting on its Web site a clock counting the number of days since Obama visited Iraq.
McSame is so on the losing side of this.
I almost feel sorry for him.
May 28, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup! Everytime he brings this up, I'm reminded of his last trip to Irag, and his plesant little stroll through Bahgdad Market.
May 28, 2008 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
That wasn't his most recent trip, but it was awfully embarrassing to be caught in a bald face lie. Kind of a reverse Tuzla, if you will.
May 28, 2008 9:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am glad that McClellan appears to have come clean. But the fact is that many of us did know, or at least knew enough, and were angry and demoralized because there was nothing we could do to stop the war. Through poor judgment or political calculation (or both), our representatives in the House and Senate voted to authorize Bush’s war on October 11, 2002. As many of us as possible now need to say, in as many ways as possible, “we told you so.” And that in this election, we are going use our own good judgment, and elect leaders who will end a war that should never have begun.
"Iraq: It Was Never The Right Choice (and we told you so)"
http://msa4.wordpress.com/
May 28, 2008 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Another immediate and awesome response from the Obama camp.
Simple Scotty's mea culpa is all well and good, but that piece of shit will never earn a molecule of respect from me. What a piece of garbage.
May 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really like General Election Obama.
May 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes; I thought that once we moved into the GE I could step back from hypervigilantly tracking every tidbit of news, but now I see, it's going to be so fun (as opposed to the infuriation of the primary campaign) that I still won't be able to tear myself away!!
May 28, 2008 5:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
No doubt.
It is also a nice reminder to the HRC concern trolls that Obama is "too nice" that he was pulling punches against his teammate. Too bad she did not pull her punches as well, but, water under the bridge and all that. Now that he is able to turn full attention to McCain and not worry about offending voters he needs, he can respond as he needs to on a daily basis. I can't wait to watch this unfold...
May 28, 2008 5:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I quite agree. Obama can hit McCain hard on this issue.
And let's face it, McCain's Baghdad stroll didn't help him actually keep straight any important details like who are Shia and Sunni.
May 28, 2008 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
And your avatar has yet to be equaled.
I just love it!
It conveys an angry innocence. Which is why I think Obama appeals to millenials.
(Of which I am decidedly not one!)
May 28, 2008 10:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah -- this is more of the Chicago style, tough version.
He didn't use this kind of stuff on fellow Democrats with whom he agreed on most issues.
May 28, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
He left it up to us in the Democratic Party to dispose of the Clintonian menace.
May 28, 2008 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hmm. It's a pretty good response, but it basically changes the subject rather than bringing up the really important point, which is that the "Baghdad strolls" are themselves a deception and not representative of the state of the ground in Iraq.
May 28, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
^^THIS^^
May 28, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
IS
May 28, 2008 5:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
EGGZELLENT!
May 28, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
NEWS!!
May 28, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
FOR McTHUSELEH!
May 28, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
OUCH! I MEAN-
May 28, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
you mean...
GRAMPY McSAME
May 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
My original intent was just to highlight that I thought that mcc had the right idea, but I like this result much better. ;)
May 28, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is probably what Greg meant about getting TOO far into the weeds. If they respond directly to his allegations, then it keeps the conversation where McCain wants it (basically superficial). Obama refocused this on the deception that got us there in the first place and reminds us that McCain was cheerleading the whole way. That and he controls the message.
It works.
May 28, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can see both points, move it to the larger issue of the war being a deception form the start vs. this "stroll" is deception and nothing but a misguided political stunt.
Both counters have merit.
May 28, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Speaking of Greg, I really like his last phrase here:
I particularly think McCain could effectively be labeled an "enabler" and that would have some serious resonance.
May 28, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
McEnabler.
May 28, 2008 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good point. The Republicans are very good at trivializing the issues and staying on the surface. Straw men such as a stroll through Baghdad, abound.
Obama got it right.
May 28, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
That was the gist of yesterday's response. Different people will respond to different messages. Gotta mix it up.
May 28, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would have been more effective to touch on it again in this response. "All for a political stunt" could have been a coda to this one which would have reenforced and built on the previous one.
May 28, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fair point. Though I think mockery of the sort you are talking about (and that's what it would be) is best delivered live. This response was mainly for political junkies and the MSM. They will work a fuller response into his remarks. At least that's my guess based on past experience.
May 28, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
And at this event he needs to unveil a counter that shows how many days since McCain walked around a Baghdad market in full body armor, surrounded by Marines and Air Force cover and said, "Everything looks great here..." That whole thing made him look soooo clueless. And every time he opens his mouth, he proves it. Isn't there a proverb about that sort of thing?
May 28, 2008 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Just loving the response because I so hate this war in Iraq........
May 28, 2008 5:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good idea McCain. All those soldiers that will be tasked to guard the two presidential candidates don't have anything better to do than make themselves bigger targets in Iraq. Well at least the kevlar industry could profit from the trip I guess.
May 28, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nice response from Obama! We need to keep going back to the premise of the war and just friggin deceptive the Bush/McBush folks were then and cotinue to be in suporting this immoral war!
May 28, 2008 5:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Luckily, we have a candidate who can make such a claim.
May 28, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Next will be the difference between Shia/Sunni....
May 28, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
What we are witnessing is a candidate with the moral authority to strike back on Iraq because he never voted for its authorization.
May 28, 2008 5:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly. Something that was but the most obvious of problems with the Kerry campaign, which had no clean contrast on the defining issue of the election.
May 28, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Opening text: McCain says Iraq is safe.
Clip: McCain 'strolling' through Baghdad wearing a flak jacket, with soldiers clearing the way and guarding him on all sides, tanks following along, and helicopters hovering overhead. (Perhaps still photos of the same marketplace destroyed what, a week later?)
Audio: McCain quote from today's statement: "To say that we've failed in Iraq and that we're not succeeding does not comport with the facts on the ground," McCain said. "So we've got to show him the facts on the ground."
Closing text: Obama knows that facts. McCain wouldn't know them if he walked right through them.
May 28, 2008 5:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Beautiful.
May 28, 2008 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, its a good response, but he needs to have some military surrogates take it to mccain on the chops. This is political pandering and nonsense "my friends" and some military people should point out how a dog a pony show doesn't reveal squat, how dangerous to the troops and civilians it would be, how you really don't get any information and how its really a sick and disgusting joke.
May 28, 2008 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
You don't bring in your armor until you've soften up the target with aerial bombardment (in this case, precision boming).
May 28, 2008 5:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, in politics carpet bombing is more appropriate. Bring in the B-52's now and bomb him into the stone age, which I am sure he remembers, then afterwards go for a stroll through the devastation. Simple, but effective.
May 28, 2008 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
For some reason I really like this stupid thing, you know, the flowchart demostrating the "proper tactical use of the phrase 'oh, snap'"
Anyone following the Obama's responses to McSame should keep this chart readily at hand:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vjornaxx/294168009/
May 28, 2008 5:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's one of my faves. I first saw that weeks or months ago, and it still makes me laugh.
May 28, 2008 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
I say there Senator McCain; hey there McCain, yes you, I am talking to you War Monger Breath:
Question: If all your visits to Iraq have made you so much of an expert on how to win your stupid war, then why do you insist that you will need another HUNDRED YEARS IN IRAQ. What say you to that, O Bush Branded Maverick of The Panderosa!
May 28, 2008 5:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Liam - I am becoming a huge fan of yours. Seriously. Please find a job with the Obama campaign - your talents are too good to be lost in blogosphere anonymity.
May 28, 2008 6:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
McBush thinks patriotism is the key to success in Iraq...as a military expert! I suggest that McBush, Lieberman and Graham just go and stay in Iraq until they win this war; wouldn't that makes sense?
May 28, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
Anyone else just get the e-mail from Robert Wexler? Sounds like Simple Scotty's book got his attention.
May 28, 2008 5:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yah, I got that one too. Let's see some action, but nothing pardonable just yet.
Tweety is digging deep into it, and I imagine Keith will as well. McClellan provides positive purchase, traction against a slippery criminal enterprise posing as a presidency.
His book is now testimony in war crimes trials post Jan 2009.
May 28, 2008 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're right, I get ahead of myself wanting blood/justice now, but forget that any conviction would just be pardoned.
Patience.....
May 28, 2008 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
...and the Barackarate! master studies, in an instant, the many weaknesses of the McCain attack, and chooses the Crouching Tiger, Original Judgment move. He has chosen wisely, again.
May 28, 2008 5:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
...with the Slinking Scotty twist!
May 28, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Obama response was very good. At some point, however, Obama will have to play offense by setting forth a somewhat more detailed plan for withdrawal and management of the fallout in Iraq that will probably ensue.
May 28, 2008 5:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because McBush has offered a detailed plan for victory in Iraq? Oh wait, he hasn't. Just lots of Bushisms: "We are going to win. What that means or how we do it, isn't important. Just know that we will...."
May 28, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I imagine that era will begin when he becomes the nominee.
May 28, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah, the Republican Mantra: More Gimmicks! Less Policy!
May 28, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Obama's great uncle and those
57 Islamic countries
"The media will ignore (Obama's uncle story) like they ignored Obama's claim of 57 states. Interestingly, there are 57 Islamic states." And it looks like his great uncle was actually in the Navy."
Where is the media outrage?
May 28, 2008 5:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Off-topic and irrelevant to the discussion.
May 28, 2008 5:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
"I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that anyone who supported me ... understands what a grave error it would be not to vote for Sen. Obama." - Hillary Clinton, CNN, May 14, 2008
(emphasis mine)
May 28, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
FYI, as I showed to the other GOP troll down-thread, Obama's great uncle (Charles T. Payne) served with distinction in the 89th Infantry division, 3555th infantry regiment, company K as shown in the records of members of that infantry division
May 28, 2008 7:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
opps... too many 5s there. the 355th infantry regiment. Mea culpa.
May 28, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe the DNC should start a "Dumb Gimmicks" list for the Republicans - how many stupid, insubstantial gimmicks will they use between now and November?
May 28, 2008 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just have to say this again - I never did think Scotty was comfortable lying. Ari lies like satin, every time he opens his mouth. Tony - he's hopeless. Dana is an empty peroxide bottle.
But Scotty was very unhappy that they lied to him over Plame because he made repeated their lie about it with emphasis and then had to admit that it was a lie to the same press corps he'd lied to. I always did think that was why he left.
This isn't a big wet kiss - it's just always been my impression.
He's still a little toad and should be ashamed of himself for working for Commander CooCoo Bananas.
May 28, 2008 5:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
The facts is in his book are already known.
He is just cashing in.
It is fun watching the gop heads explode.
May 28, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
(emphasis mine)
May 28, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
The facts need to be repeated as often as it takes to hold those accountable in the current criminal enterprise posing as a presidency for war crimes.
Sen Clinton's demise will appear honorable next to what will befall the disassemblers of our govt.
Pax,
M.
May 28, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Lots of those toads are crowding our big tent now.
May 28, 2008 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, true.
May 28, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
I had a similar take on Scotty. He wasn't slick or mendacious enough to make a good mouthpiece for BushCo.
May 28, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just want to let everybody know, for historical reference, that this was the day Audie Murphy died in a car crash.
I just automatically think of May 28 as Audie Death Day, in case that ever pops up in conversation and it seems inexplicable to you.
So don't freak out or make a big deal out of it if I bring it up.
May 28, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
because he made repeated their lie about it with emphasis
because he repeated their lie to him about it with emphasis -
maybe that makes sense now. I hope so. :)
May 28, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I got it anyway, but thanks! A lack of edit/preview feature on here is a sore point. But I'm preaching to the choir.
May 28, 2008 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
It Is Onion Time in the Oval Office:
"White House Puzzled About Why Former Press Secretary Tells The Truth."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080528/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_mcclellan_book_22
WASHINGTON - Former White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan writes in a new memoir that President Bush relied on an aggressive "political propaganda campaign" instead of the truth to sell the Iraq war, and that the decision to invade pushed Bush's presidency "terribly off course.
May 28, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
This one was easy:
"My thanks to Sen McCain for the invitation, but I'm sure the US military has better things to do than fit us both with bulletproof vests, park a couple of Blackhawks overhead and line the Baghdad streets with our hard working servicepeople just to set up another photo op. The McCain campaign is welcome to send their candidate over there - I'll stay here, vote for veteren benefits in teh Senate and campaign to bring them all home as soon as possible."
May 28, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's perfect.
Here's Obama's fax:
(202) 228-4260
They're getting sick of hearing from me. ;-)
May 28, 2008 6:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I say it's time for Obama to take an unannounced, surprise trip -- perhaps with chums like Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, Evan Bayh, Chuck Hagel, you know, just to get to know them better -- to AFGHANISTAN.
May 28, 2008 5:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually not a bad idea, but it would look too political and responsive right now.
My guess is that as soon as this ridiculous nomination fight was over, which it was in February, Obama was going to go to both Iraq and Afghanistan. Unfortunately, the clintons have drug this out so long, that he wasn't able to do it before mccain played this card. The card was obvious and I am sure was going to be addressed, and would have been addressed, were it not for the clintons. Now its unfortunately too late.
May 28, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
the Rep's are going out of their way to make McClellan seem like he is either bitter or doing it for money. They are all out in force on all the cable news today.
May 28, 2008 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
can I say this without it sounding too obnoxious? Well, duh.
LOL
I didn't expect them to be thrilled. I'm really loving this - the timing would only have been better if it was a tad closer to November, but that might look contrived.
I'll take this. Bless his black and twisted little Southern Baptist heart!
May 28, 2008 6:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe the "Baghdad Stroll" is a ruse to get Obama over there so he can be knocked off and the blame can be put on Iran or Al-Sadr. Nice excuse to expand the conflict.
May 28, 2008 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just noticed the countdown clock reference. Why doesn't the dnc put up a countdown clock since last mccain photo-op in bahgdad? Also, they can put up a figure of the total cost of photo-ops as well.
May 28, 2008 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, is that a gimmick they really want to introduce?
A "count-up" clock of total time since Iraq war began (perhaps displayed as bar graph ending at 100 years); a graph displaying mounting hundreds of billions spent; time since the last time McSame et al said war would be over; casualties, etc.
OTOH, if they think Iraq is going to win for them, they are deluded and maybe we should quietly let them head down that path for a while . . .
May 28, 2008 5:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
They should have the Mission Accomplished banner over the top of the clock with the McCain / Bush hug photo next to it.
May 28, 2008 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's a good one. Then they can have another rolling clock, like at the gd gas pump, on how much it is costing, minute, by minute. It would be spinning pretty gd fast.
May 28, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/
There's a running total midway down the page on the right.
May 28, 2008 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Chris Matthews is pissed!
May 28, 2008 5:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
What is tweety going on about?
(stuck at work with no cable t.v.)
May 28, 2008 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
"This is a B.S. war based on ego, and it's about time we get to the bottom of this."
May 28, 2008 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
And if the media punditoracy are going down that road, so much the better we Democrats have a candidate who is clean on the issue and didn't buy the false premise of the invasion.
May 28, 2008 6:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Exactly.
Kerry got killed on just that - his vote to authorize.
Obama did the right thing.
May 28, 2008 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aye he is. Buchanan even backed off. Keith will have Scott on his show.
How long before the GOP starts smearing Scott's personal life? That is a closet door they had best resist...
May 28, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
They are already phrasing him as a disgruntled employee from some of the reportage around here.
May 28, 2008 5:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
David Gregory, who covered the criminal enterprise for NBC, is dedicating his whole show to Iraqgate.
May 28, 2008 6:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
O this rocks.
this really really rocks.
May 28, 2008 6:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
Out comes Dan Bartlett to discredit Scott while ignoring the substance.
Scott makes a poor target. Gregory's panel contends they chose Scott precisely because they thought he would never talk.
I hope others are seeing the permission slip Scott has written them. Bartlett's defense was tepid.
May 28, 2008 6:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Scotty makes a terrible target - the Pillsbury Dough Boy - he looks like a nice little hypocritical Southern Baptist choir boy and it's hard to imagine a worse target for them.
Ari - yeah, I think the WH could have made a case for Ari being a snake, cause he is.
May 28, 2008 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is interesting....David Gregory's show on MSNBC is preempted by the NBC Nightly News, as Brian Williams' first story is Iraqgate, and Gregory is the story's reporter. Facinating.
May 28, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh boy, is this great!
May 28, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Republican brand and Bush's abhorrent Iraq massacre of 4000 plus American soldiers and 100,000 plus innocent Iraqi civilians need to be hung like nooses around John McCain's "political" neck. Every time McCain beats the Bush Republican Imperialsm drum, he should be forced to defend "why" he still supports an invasion and occupation for reasons that have been proven false that have cost us so much and offers us and the world so little positive return. What good has Bush's murdering Imperialsm done for American and Iraqi citizens? Why does McCain still insist on supporting it?
May 28, 2008 5:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh fer chrissakes...now it turns out Obama's only great uncle was in the Navy.
He's not just a lair, he's a bad liar.
WTF, this the kid that moved into town, had a holier-than thou-attitude, told a bunch of lies about himself and his family, got caught and got his ass kicked back to wherever he came from.
Someone needs to give Obama an atomic wedgie.
May 28, 2008 6:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
your tears are so tasty and sweet.
May 28, 2008 6:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry to say you are sucking someone else's face.
May 28, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
From the 89th Infantry WWII division website:
Concerning the service of Mr. Charles Payne: C.T. Payne was a soldier in the 89th Infantry Division. He served in the 355th Infantry Regiment, Company K. The 355th Infantry Regiment was the unit to liberate Ohrdruf. Mr. Payne was there
May 28, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interestingly when you plug his name in on that website's search engine it comes back as no hits.
Go figure.
Obama is so full of shit....
May 28, 2008 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pathetic. You actually think that the obama campaign would go through all the trouble to get the facts straight and then lie about it? You are a moron.
I still can't believe that we are even talking about this story. It's absurd. His great uncle liberated a concentration camp. So, obama got the name of the camp wrong. Give me a freaking break. At least he didn't claim to be dodging sniper fire or that he "didn't have sex with that woman." How pathetic.
May 28, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Odd how the website for that Infantry divisions service in WWII confirms the Obama story which I provided you a direct link to, but hey, those vets who fought in WWII are just lying about it because their website search engine doesn't return the hit you expect.
Of course you started from the assumption that Obama was lying, and worked backwards, much like Bush and Co. starting from the decision to go to war, and "fixing" the intelligence around that foregone conclusion.
May 28, 2008 6:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Interesting that they found it necessary to put that information on the home page but their search engine turns up zero hits for the name.
Can you say...propaganda?
May 28, 2008 6:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes I can say propaganda, which is exactly what you are spewing. GOP troll swiftboat bullshit (i.e. untrue propaganda).
May 28, 2008 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
No hits like this page that shows Pfc. C. T. Payne as being in the 355th Infantry Regiment, Company K?
http://89infdivww2.org//home/list_p.htm
Oh well. If nothing else, at least you have now proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are in fact a GOP troll.
May 28, 2008 7:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fair enough. I bow to your search engine prowess. I got no hits when I plugged in the name.
May 28, 2008 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, rather than be cute and bow to someone's search engine prowess you should apologize and state clearly and flatly that you were wrong.
Otherwise we all know what color your balls are. Yellow.
May 28, 2008 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fuck you.
How's that.
May 28, 2008 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Aye, yellow indeed. Only a rank coward would hide behind the bully that is this avatar.
May 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yup, as everyone here already knew: yellow.
May 28, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah my fan base. I love you too!
May 28, 2008 8:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
(emphasis mine)
May 28, 2008 9:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know, Dude.
Cindy looks headache-prone.
I color him a deep blue.
Or completely atrophied.
(And, either way, it's a disturbing image.)
May 28, 2008 10:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe John can fly into the Baghdad airport, rent a car at Avis, drive to Mosul, and Obama can meet him for lunch.
May 28, 2008 6:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!
O I love your comment - LOL!!!!!
May 28, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Best laugh I've had in days.
May 28, 2008 6:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Photo-op at the ground breaking ceremony for Baghdad Disneyland!
May 28, 2008 6:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Maybe Obama should have just accepted McCain's invitation with one provision: the Iraqi Security Forces would escort them.
May 28, 2008 6:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Something that Hillary could have never said, because she ate up Bush's crap just like McCain.
Now are people starting to see why her Iraq vote was important? =)
May 28, 2008 6:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, she didn't eat it up. Her decision to support the AUMF had nothing whatever to do with what was right and what was wrong. She didn't even bother to read the NIE, for crissakes. It had to do with positioning herself for the future. Her vote was cast for the AUMF because she was planning on running for President at some time in the future and she calculated that being for the war was better than being against it.
In my book, that's worse than actually being for it.
May 28, 2008 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Besides the all around absurdity of McC's proposal, it could be downright dangerous for the Iraqi's and the American armed forces on the ground.
The last time Cheney went, wasn't there an attack on the Green zone? Isn't that a common greeting, for visiting Americans?
May 28, 2008 6:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes.
And the marketplace where McLame took his last stroll was bombed the next day, as well.
May 28, 2008 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's great his campaign's responses are so quick, smart and hard. But McCain is the one firing the first shots - which at some point might come off as if McCain is "setting the agenda."
Obama needs to start hitting McCain first on different topics and issues, from different directions. Put McCain on the defensive, force him to make the responses.
May 28, 2008 6:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
i agree with you 100%. at some point BO needs to to go on the offensive especially about the economy. As long as the issue is foreign policy McCain will be comfortable, but as it relates to economic issues, McCain doesnt have a clue.
May 28, 2008 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Once he is the nominee. Today, the criminal enterprise dominates the news, and it's high fucking time.
May 28, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree.
Let little Scotty have his day in sun, folks! This couldn't be better for the Democrats.
May 28, 2008 6:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
I hate to say it but I agree. I prefer Obama's stance of letting his policy positions and record speak for itself, but we are talking about the American electorate after all...
May 28, 2008 6:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well he doesn't do that, in the first place.
But the main thing is, look up and see what I said about little Scotty.
;)
May 28, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
John McCain is going to have to decide whether or not to stick to Bush or reject/denounce him. This book paints every politician, especially John McCain, as a politician who jumped into the war with both feet and didnt bother to look before he jumped.
May 28, 2008 6:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, aye, it's going to get septuple BUTT ugly once the pardon pen can no longer protect anyone.
May 28, 2008 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Schadenfreud laden karma is a dish best served cold.
May 28, 2008 6:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
He didn't look before... OR after...
May 28, 2008 11:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
NBC, CBS, and ABC all lead with the Scott McColellen's book.
May 28, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
What a brilliant idea to land both of the potential next leaders of the free world in a war zone! Did the McCain team really think this absurd hypothetical true? Putting such a high value target in Iraq endangers troops and the mission for a political stunt. This is hot air... it will never happen.
May 28, 2008 6:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
I haven't gotten a chance to catch the MSM's reaction to McC's, "Let's go on a date to Baghdad" thing. Are they playing it straight or are they pointing out the absurdity?
If the later, than it looks like Scotty's book couldn't have come at a better time. If the former, they need to hop on down to their neighborhood book store and read it, right quick!
May 28, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, but if anything "goes wrong" Hillary will be waiting and ready on day one to replace EITHER candidate.
May 28, 2008 6:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
No Surrender!
May 28, 2008 6:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
oooooh! Baghdad John's RNC friends are steppin' in to help him. The same John McCain who made multiple errors regarding Shi'ia and Sunni.
Go get 'em, Barack!
May 28, 2008 6:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
For the life of me I cant figure out why McCain has brought up Iraq at all. Does anyone thing McCain might be trying to force Obama to pick Webb as VP for some reason?
May 28, 2008 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's all he's got!
What the hell else does McLame have, besides telling the crazy rich he won't raise their taxes?
All he has is that he was a pilot. And he flew very few missions before he was shot down and imprisoned and really doesn't know much about what war is out in the field. He was in prison the whole time.
And one would think he'd have learned from that - but NO, not McLame, the most immoral man in Congress. McLame, who was tortured, who heard his comrades tortured - probably the only person in Congress with this experience and what did he do with it? Turned around and voted to let the President of the United States commit what McLame knows are war crimes, by allowing torture.
If there's a hell, he is really and truly going there.
May 28, 2008 6:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's the unfocused wandering combined with a party that is just beginning a long slide into oblivion makes it impossible for him to escape the tidal forces emanating from the criminal enterprise posing as a presidency.
McCain cannot rise above 45% in any natiopnal poll, even with dem primaries consuming the entire primary calendar.
++past it
May 28, 2008 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a pretty lame line of attack by McCain. If I were him, I'd point out that first Obama was against the war, but as soon as he got into the Senate he voted to fund it, and now he's against it again. He's a flip - flopity - triple flipper.
May 28, 2008 6:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
An equally lame and ineffectual line of attack. But thanks for playing.
(emphasis mine)
May 28, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Please wake me when a point develops.
May 28, 2008 6:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
Pity the little monkey. Isn't it a sad little monkey? The organ grinder lost, but she's still playing her maniacal tune because she's got $20 million in campaign debts. That's a lot of work for Hillary's sad little monkeys.
Poor monkey! Don't you feel like flipping a quarter in the sad little monkey's tin cup so Hillary can keep playing?
May 28, 2008 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's right. Because it's Hillary, and she's a woman, it's all about the money. Misogyny rears its ugly head yet again.
May 28, 2008 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nahh, I thought it was plain sexism, or was it the vast right-wing conspiracy? Or maybe it was because it was a clinton? Or, maybe, could it be she sucked as a campaigner, is a pathological liar and would make a terrible president? Nah, that would be too easy. It's much better to claim sexism or some other lame excuse.
May 28, 2008 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
As opposed to the being all about the monkey rearing its ugly head again.
May 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wait, I have some kleenex here somewhere...
May 28, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ugly Monkey Dude, it's all about the money because she's in debt to the tune of a cool $20 mil! She owes Indiana University $50,000-plus and she owes numerous small-business vendors. It has nothing to do with her being a woman!
May 28, 2008 7:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Don't you understand? The very notion of expecting a woman to be above skipping out on her debts is MISOGYNIST!!!
May 28, 2008 11:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn, is that all you've got? It's somehow about gender? Monkey to monkey - I have to tell you that it makes me feel a little sorry for you.
In any case, now is an excellent time for you to decide to wake up. The chances of Hillary managing to get the nomination are now pretty damned close to zero and she knows it. If you think Hillary is staying in this race to make sure your voice gets heard, you'd best think again. She is still out there fundraising hard so she can milk every nickel out of your gullible little monkey pockets, until she finally reaches the point of diminishing returns.
Have fun making those campaign contributions out of your little tin cup, Monkey! I'm sure Mark Penn will find some fine use for your pennies.
May 28, 2008 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you think you're a better monkey than me? Is that what you think? You're no monkey - you're Obama's sock puppet.
May 28, 2008 10:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm afraid I have to disagree with the conventional wisdom here. I think this could potentially be a very strong line of attack for McCain. Having positions isn't enough. Talking in the abstract about problems isn't enough.
Going to Iraq would give Obama some great exposure to some of what's going on on the ground, even if the tour is "censored" by keeping it in the green zone. He could talk to troops stationed there. He could meet with ordinary Iraqis.
After all, why shouldn't he go to Iraq? Can someone answer me that one? I'll bet there will be millions of people asking the same question.
May 28, 2008 6:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ok, I'll answer it - read the thread.
I've posted 25 good reasons at least. I'll start over: it's a huge burden on our military there - a candidate - keeping candidates safe? With their entourages?
And to what end? I don't think Americans want to hear anything more about this war than this: When and how we are getting our people out.
I don't know where all the concern is coming from - but this is so not 2004.
This line of McLame's is a big fat loser.
May 28, 2008 7:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see the reasons you've given. I just don't think they work.
I still think this line of attack against Obama could work. It's not much more than a gut feeling I have, but I don't like the way this is leading at all.
This of course is just the opening shot. We'll be seeing this over and over again in the coming months, when repetition often carries the day. This rule applies every election year, not just 2004.
May 28, 2008 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well I guess time will tell, innit?
May 28, 2008 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama has no need to play McCain-lite, and fortunately, it will never happen. If there is one thing Obama has proven to have is discipline, and his plan does not involve falling for childish Republican taunts.
He is hitting back beautifully already. Relax. Bat Guano has it right.
May 28, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW. I enjoy your avatar everytime I see it.
May 28, 2008 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
Moi?
It's just moi. Took it with the computer one night about a month ago and used the pencil drawing effect on it.
thanks.
If not moi, disregard this message and hang up now. ;)
May 28, 2008 10:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
I won't speak for the political reasons, but I will say why it concerns me: it puts troops and civilians at risk. I think that is an unacceptable risk for a political ploy.
May 28, 2008 7:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
I understand this reason; I just think it is too abstract to allow it to gain effective traction as a response.
May 28, 2008 7:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, let me elaborate; it's not an abstract response; it a "second-order" response.
The "first order" of the debate is whether or not he should go to Iraq in the first place. The "second order" of the debate are the details involved in his going.
One of the most elementary rules of debate is that you do not answer a first order argument with a second order argument. Clinton tried that against Obama (See "false hope") and it has failed. I don't see any effective first order responses from Obama like that.
Here's a possible one: I'll go to Iraq if you go on my poverty tour.
May 28, 2008 7:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm not willing to say that increased to both civilians and soldiers is "second order" stuff. To put what amounts to political theater over life and death in a war zone is simply not the right thing to do.
Call me naive, but I value life above all else.
(I just disagree with some as to when it begins.)
May 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Should read "increased risk ..."
PLEASE give us preview and edit functions!!!
May 28, 2008 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
"To put what amounts to political theater over life and death in a war zone is simply not the right thing to do."
I totally agree. And isn't that what Obama's campaign is all about? Doing the right thing?
May 28, 2008 8:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain is wrong on Iraq
Obama is wrong on Iraq.
Only Clinton has a consistent POV that would get us out of there and regain the respect of the world.
Clinton remains the best choice for president.
May 28, 2008 7:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton and McCain was wrong on Iraq. Obama has been the only one right on Iraq.
Clinton remains delusional about being president.
May 28, 2008 7:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL
She voted for an supported it. She was wrong from the get-go, just like McCain.
This is one of the central reasons I did not support her campaign for POTUS.
May 28, 2008 7:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
No, she vote correctly based on what presented to her as facts.
Obama ignored the facts.
that those facts turned out to be ficticious as a result of a pathological president does not change the point the Obamas relies on high stakes gambling while Clinton tries to base decisions logically based on the facts.
Luck is not to be confused with good judgment. Only Obamites do that.
May 28, 2008 7:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are not just a GOP-troll but a friggin' idiot (not that those two are mutually exclusive things mind you).
What "facts" did Obama "ignore" that lead him to correctly judge that the evidence that we needed to invade Iraq was not persuasive?
And given that Clinton didn't even bother to read the classified NIE she had access too before voting to green-light the invasion, you are in fantasyland.
May 28, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
She could not be bothered to read the relevent NIE, you racist coward. She is a danger to herself an others because of her deep denial.
And you remain a rank coward for hiding behind the bully that is this avatar.
May 28, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Only Clinton has a consistent POV that would get us out of there and regain the respect of the world"
Right.. She voted for one of the biggest clusterfucks in American history, and she failed to read the NIE for Christs sake. I mean, photo-shopped pics of Obama getting a wedgie might makes you feel better about your weak candidate momentarily - but your ignorance will remain with you for the rest of your lifetime.
May 28, 2008 7:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
O my god - she can't even run a successful campaign - how could she possibly get us out of Iraq?
The condition of her campaign scares me to death. It's chaotic, according to what I've read. No one knows who's in charge, because Bill moved in with his people.
And don't even start on the mismanagement of vast sums of money...
Hillary get us out of Iraq? Don't make me laugh.
May 28, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
You still owe Obama an apology. You were wrong be strong enough to admit it.
May 28, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
What's with the right wing with countdown clocks? (Fox's Obama appearance countdown, GOP's Iraq countdown)
May 28, 2008 7:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Masochism. Each tick is a tear falling into political oblivion.
May 28, 2008 7:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL!
May 28, 2008 7:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Obama takes the bait and goes to Baghdad, he looks weak, like he's afraid of simply saying, "I'm not playing that game, Senator." The McLame camp is PRAYING that he'll take the bait, because if he does, it opens him up to a whole new line of attacks, starting with the meme that the junior senator is letting himself be schooled by the wizened veteran leader. No way should Obama be suckered by this. Let McSame taunt him all he wants; it should be no problem to come up with a bucket full of counter-taunts with which to respond.
May 28, 2008 7:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nailed it.
The worst thing for Obama to do is to look like McSame's poodle: ("what do you want me to do next, Gramps?")
May 28, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
The only hope the GOP has is to turn on W, and I mean tonight. There will be nothing left but ashes next year.
May 28, 2008 7:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a little late for that, don't you think? They could have turned on him when it mattered and in so doing would have garnered some measure of respect. Instead, they rode the Titanic down with the ship's captain and an icy death awaits. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.
May 28, 2008 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, aye, too late indeed. Well, I tried! I mean really. They would have to back impeachment 100-0 in the Senate to have even a glimmer of hope.
What remains intolerable is that all the fluff aside, we will have an ex-president, ex-veep, and many of his goons unable to set foot in Vermont (and a growing number of countries) without being arrested at the airport for war crimes.
America really must address this to bring about any "change".
May 28, 2008 7:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
From: Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/05/ah-scotty.html
Wednesday, May 28, 2008
Ah, Scotty...
From the Post:
Former White House press secretary Scott McClellan writes in a new memoir that the Iraq war was sold to the American people with a sophisticated "political propaganda campaign" led by President Bush and aimed at "manipulating sources of public opinion" and "downplaying the major reason for going to war."
McClellan includes the charges in a 341-page book, "What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington's Culture of Deception," that delivers a harsh look at the White House and the man he served for close to a decade. He describes Bush as demonstrating a "lack of inquisitiveness," says the White House operated in "permanent campaign" mode, and admits to having been deceived by some in the president's inner circle about the leak of a CIA operative's name.>
It would be utterly inconsistent to praise McClellan for his revelations, now that he needed to find something sensational from his anxiously subservient, painful-to-watch tenure as Press Secretary, which at best could only evoke sympathy for his agonized predicament. It might have helped in eliciting such praise if these revelations had emerge at some point between the end of his tenure and the beginnings of promotion for the book.
Ironically, in now falling to the likely demands of his current masters for something to add spice and sales power to an otherwise agonizing episode, one might posit that he is repeating the same pattern that occurred during his work in the Administration. Nevertheless, this is a man who has demonstrated beyond doubt his characteristic fear of censure. That he comes forward with these accusations, despite putative motive, is of considerable note.
The claims that McClellan makes have the benefit of being supported by numerous contemporary and highly confirming reports (Woodward, Suskind et al). Now, the fact that even McClellan, the truest of camp followers, endorses them, gives them an additional bottom line power--the fearful, sweaty, anxious party line stalwart, who was also among those closest to the action, now confirms what all but the most deluded now must know.
McClellan, like other Press Secretaries before him, could have downplayed, soft pedaled, or diffused these critiques--as they did, in their books, which also had sales imperatives. He does not. Instead, he emphasizes and confirms the critical through-line narrative--a war, driven and unvetted by a lack of necessary curiosity regarding likely effects on our nation, our citizens and the world; a sales campaign yoked to this poorly vetted effort in the most cynical ("one doesn't unveil new products in August") fashion, and, overall, a brutal narrowness of vision, combined with the excitedly combative anti-intellectualism, masked by a shallow pose of ideological self-certainty (i.e. half-blindness) that characterized this administration. His willingness to express, in print, Bush's tendency to convince himself of what he wanted to believe, and this Administration's embrace of secrecy is a genuinely noble and a brave act.
But, ah, Scotty. The wreckage.
Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/05/ah-scotty.html
May 28, 2008 7:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Scotty always was such a Good German.
Well, it's got the talking heads talking about the lies that led to war again.
That ain't all bad.
May 28, 2008 7:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
All Senator Obama has to say is:
Senator McCain has made several trips to Baghdad, and he wants to keep going back there for the next hundred years.
When I am President, I will go to Baghdad once, to consult with all those who will participate in the prudent and careful withdrawal of most of our combat forces.
May 28, 2008 7:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
An apology for butting in where we did not belong would go a long way towards restarting diplomacy.
May 28, 2008 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Meanwhile, while Ireland was hosting over hundred nations to take one small step toward protecting humanity from the technology of Neo-Savages, America opted to side with the forces of Barbarism.
(CNN) -- More than 100 nations meeting in Dublin, Ireland, agreed Wednesday on a treaty that would immediately ban all cluster bombs, a spokesman for the Cluster Munition Coalition told CNN.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/05/28/uk.cluster.bomb/index.html
Excerpt:
Though some of the biggest makers of cluster bombs, including the United States, Russia, China and Israel, were not involved in the talks and have not signed the accord, organizers predicted that those nations would nevertheless be pressured into compliance.
"Take the United States," Nash said. "Almost all of its allies are here. They've decided to ban these weapons. That's going to make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for the United States to ever use these weapons again, either on its own or in joint operations."
May 28, 2008 7:26 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hell what do you expect from an administration that openly defies international law?
May 28, 2008 7:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
The last rolling clock was on Fox News and he caved.
McCain is kicking his ass attacking with his strength of national security.
This a loser for Obama.
McCain's weakness is the economy.
Need a fighter like Clinton to attack McCain's weakness.
Obama is weak.
Lets hope the supers do the right thing to win this time and go with the fighter.
May 28, 2008 7:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Uh, let's not. You remain addicted to old thinking.
May 28, 2008 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm still trying to figure out what Obama IS strong on.
Rhetoric?
May 28, 2008 7:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's big on not being one of the biggest fuck-ups in human history.
May 28, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
And You still owe Obama an apology.
May 28, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am still waiting for you to admit you were flat out wrong about your claims Obama's great uncle.
May 28, 2008 7:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Never from this sick racist coward.
May 28, 2008 7:58 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm still waiting for him to give me a second plausible interpretation of "participate" in the Michigan pledge Hillary signed, which he claims is ambiguous. Don't hold your breath.
May 28, 2008 8:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ah my fan base. I love you too!
May 28, 2008 8:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see you refuse to apologize for your error and slander.
(emphasis mine)
May 28, 2008 9:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Breaking news: Fogu2 thinks Obama is weak.
Film at 11.
May 28, 2008 7:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
His kool aid is very strong.
May 28, 2008 8:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Care to be a man (assumign you are male) and apologize for trying to insinuate that Obama's great-uncle didn't serve in th e89th Infantry Division which liberated a Buchenwald sub-camp and being flat-out wrong about it?
May 28, 2008 8:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gotalife is a cat lady, FYI.
A Canadian cat lady, to be exact.
May 28, 2008 8:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
It has nothing to do with being a "McCain lite;" it makes Obama look as somone who considers himself "above the menial concerns of ordinary people." Yes, the McCain campaign will be Clinton 2.0, but I think Obama needs to destroy this meme at the earliest opportunity.
May 28, 2008 7:34 PM | Reply | Permalink
Huh?
How does not going to Iraq make Obama look like he's above anything?
That is probably the most bent thing I've read yet about this.
This is just stupid - there's not one good reason why Obama should do one thing McLame wants him to do.
May 28, 2008 7:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Tena - He's not going because he's an elitist. He heard they don't have any latte's in Iraq.
May 28, 2008 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
by the way Frog Leg - you may not be aware, but Obama has almost overwhelming support from the regular soldiers "on the ground" (that much vaunted, near-mystical place!).
Just sayin.
May 28, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
All the better--he should hold a rally in Baghdad then! Having a multitude of soldiers behind him will shut up the GOP far more effectively than any abstract argument ever could.
May 28, 2008 7:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's not a bad idea, really. One thing about Obama rallies is they tend to be Of the People. A whole fuckload of folks! This must sour Sens Clinton's and McCain's milk to no end...
May 28, 2008 7:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, says soldiers must be apolitical. They would all be court-martialed.
May 28, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is a hidden point that cannot be misunderestimated [sic.]. Imagine if W had the starry-eyed support of the military ala Pete Scumbag Pace?
Failure has a way of deliverying, well, Scott McClellan, for example...
May 28, 2008 7:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
For Obama to go to Iraq after McCain challenged him to go would be the stupidest political move he could ever do.
May 28, 2008 8:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's on the right side of the issue. The country is on his side. McCain and the GOP know this and are trying to him the issue and not the war. He won't fall for it. He's smarter than that.
May 28, 2008 8:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why do so many TPM regulars keep taking the Troll bait?
To dialog with Trolls is to validate Trolls. They crave attention, and hate being ignored.
Boycott them. It will drive them nuts. Stop responding to them, because they thrive on getting you to do so.
May 28, 2008 7:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
I know Liam, I'm sorry. I just love reminding fogu2 that he has yellow balls and still owes Obama an apology.
May 28, 2008 7:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I can't help myself. I know. I know.
May 28, 2008 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
As a poster said upthread, Their tears are so tasty and sweet!
May 28, 2008 8:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
That is one school of thought. Another is that trolls write permission slips for others to denigrate them, thereby releasing unhealthy stress, and perhaps nailing a point a little harder in the process.
Regardless, the Trolls Are, as sad and as sickenly cowardly that may be. It's bad enough they might actually VOTE...
May 28, 2008 7:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
These folks (trolls), "concern" and otherwise, are professionals. I think it's not really a stretch to suggest that some of them collect paychecks from certain campaign organizations for their work here and on other forums. Every time you respond to them, you're wasting time better spent on responding to legitimate issues raised by legitimate commenters.
May 28, 2008 8:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I disagree. Fogu2 and gotnolife provided a great opportunity to knock back the fraudulent swift-boat attempt on Obama's relatives over the concentration camp "gaffe" bullshit. Think of them as target practice to bone up on in addressing BS when you hear it form non-trolls talking nonsense.
May 28, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
They are certainly outnumbered by a large degree. The lack of cogent debate gives it away. The regularity suggests automation.
May 28, 2008 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
I personally believe there are several people behind the gotalife and fogu2 usernames, either separately or collectively.
May 28, 2008 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
You do realize you describe the Borg...
May 28, 2008 9:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know why Obama doesn't want to go to Iraq. Everyone else named Hussein is over there. I would think that he'd fit right in.
May 28, 2008 8:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yep. Everyone named Hussein is in Iraq.
May 28, 2008 8:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
rstephen!!! Your supper's ready!!! Come up from the basement before it gets cold!!!
May 28, 2008 9:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does the Obama campaign issuing a press release really constitute "fighting back"? Obama himself ignored the comments, focusing instead on education today.
It's still early, but McCain has kept the focus on foreign affairs rather than the economy. Obama would be well served to pirouette from Iraq to the domestic programs - infrastructure, especially - that McSame's warmongering policies will continue to impoverish.
I'm no fan of Hillary, but her populist tone - and that's all it really is - resonates and will be an effective tool for Obama, should he choose to deploy it, ala Sherrod Brown in '06.
May 28, 2008 8:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama isn't the ideal populist and I'm not sure it works for him to pretend he is one. But he needs to go after the economic issues all right. Maybe he needs to get at the very genuine fears Americans have that there children will be the first generation to do worse than their parents. He needs to hit on economic security and opportunity at HOME. Higher education opportunity for ALL Americans. Don't dumb it down in the populist way but go after the message the JFK way challenging Americans to dream and achieve and promise that Democrats are going to help them do that instead of squandering our resources abroad. Populist but in a higher achieving way. Oh yes we CAN compete with the Chinese if we have the education, etc.
May 28, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't know what you mean by "dumb[ing] it down in the populist way," but I think he's got the "big dreams" aspect of his message nailed down.
My problem is his failure to define the race in terms of economic issues and, by extension, address social inequality head-on in ways that are accessible yet not trivial.
May 28, 2008 8:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
I predict he will find a way to be President of all the people, including elitists, trolls, "hard working white crackers", doobie enthusiasts, womanizers and their battered wives, ex-neocons (you can tell by who lawyers up), and even gotalife. This is the most direct route to the Oval Office.
But not fogu2. That racist coward we reject.
A dear friend reflected recently, "Jiminy, I love Obama because he's like the school principal! Just what the country has to have!" This is only troubling to the extent that my name is not "Jiminy."
I would be exceedingly worried if I were associated with the criminal enterprise posing as a presidency. Lawyer-up worried.
May 28, 2008 8:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
Who doesn't love the Doobies? I thought "China Grove" was the BOMB!
May 28, 2008 9:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
I realized I had "arrived" when it became known that the award-winning network design firm for which I was honored to serve in the 1990s, awash in profit and founded by an IBM sales guru, it was run by a bunch of potheads. And I am talkiing the senior sales and engineering folks. It became a Friday evening decompression, esp. among the sales folks.
"You've got to be kidding me," was all I could manage for many a year. Between hits, of course.
May 28, 2008 9:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Damn! That sounds like it was a grind, Dude! ;)
May 28, 2008 10:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
- where were those jobs when I was out looking?
May 28, 2008 10:33 PM | Reply | Permalink
Couldn't agree more. He's been linking the war to the bad economy, steadily, and that's been a really good point.
I think all Americans want to hear about Iraq now is: how and when our military is coming home. After that, I don't think the public particularly wants to hear about the war. I think, as you say, domestic issues are way more important.
One reason that is so is that the Republicans historically are terrible at domestic issues, in general. This particular bunch of Repugs are beyond terrible. The economy is wrecked and people are nervous about that - the war isn't utmost on their minds.
May 28, 2008 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
A President Obama will take back foreign policy from the GOP, leaving them with criminal indictments.
May 28, 2008 8:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
To all those who feel sorry for McCain, given his position on Iraq and so many others issues, at what point does it translate into Obama gaining in the national Obama/McCain polls? I realize there's a hell of a long way to go before November, but at what point does Obama either (a) start taking a more substantial lead in the polls or, in the case of some polls, (b) start pulling ahead? By the way, it's a sincere question. I'm genuinely interested in what people think about this... and I'm not questioning the validity of what anyone has posted.
May 28, 2008 8:04 PM | Reply | Permalink
They're currently tied according to Pollster, and that's with Obama fighting two fronts. I'd say that bodes pretty damn well for him. Once Obama locks up the nomination - 1 week - we will see an almost instant bump in the polls.
May 28, 2008 8:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama will gain in the polls once he's shaken off a certain someone who is clinging to his legs and kicking and screaming, refusing to leave.
Until the nomination is declared a lock and until he no longer has to refrain from ripping Clinton a new one all the time, he'll make mincemeat of McSame.
May 28, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Those are my thoughts as well, which I believe is more or less the conventional wisdom. I'm guess I'm just a bit surprised that Obama isn't doing at least a few percentage points better than he currently is against McCain. Given McCain's perplexing positions and flip-flopping on key issues, not to mention everything McCain is going up against that has built up over the last eight years, it just seems like Obama should be farther ahead, despite Hillary refusing to drop out. The apparently realistic possibility of an Obama presidency and 60 votes in the Senate has made me anxious to see hom start to pull ahead.
May 28, 2008 8:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama will gain in the polls once he's shaken off a certain someone who is clinging to his legs and kicking and screaming, refusing to leave.
Until the nomination is declared a lock and until he no longer has to refrain from ripping Clinton a new one all the time, the polls will probably be static. Then he'll make mincemeat of McSame.
May 28, 2008 8:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Bush didn't visit the country to START the war why does Obama need to stroll in Baghdad to END the war?
Seems to me all that McCain's 'bagdad strolls' have done is render him unable to end the war.
Obama has better judgment and knows that war and securing the peace aren't about 'strolling in Baghdad'.
Good judgment is not geographic dependent.
May 28, 2008 8:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
NYTIMES The Caucus page tonight:
Obama Says He Is Considering Iraq Trip
By Jeff Zeleny
THORNTON, Colo. – Senator Barack Obama said today that he is considering visiting American troops and commanders in Iraq this summer. He declined an invitation from Senator John McCain to take a joint trip to Iraq, saying: “I just don’t want to be involved in a political stunt.”
In a brief interview here, Mr. Obama said his campaign was considering taking a foreign trip after he secures the Democratic presidential nomination. No details have been set, he said, but added: “Iraq would obviously be at the top of the list of stops.”
Mr. Obama visited Iraq in January 2006 as part of a Congressional delegation to the Middle East, but he has not returned since he became a presidential candidate. Mr. McCain and the Republican National Committee have sought to use that singular trip to highlight a lack of foreign policy experience.
For weeks, aides to Mr. Obama have been quietly discussing a foreign trip, but the long Democratic nominating fight has delayed making any concrete plans. Now, with only five months remaining until the general election, it remains unclear whether there will be time to take such a trip.
Mr. Obama suggested today that any foreign itinerary would include a stop in Iraq.
“I think that if I’m going to Iraq, then I’m there to talk to troops and talk to commanders, I’m not there to try to score political points or perform,” Mr. Obama said. “The work they’re doing there is too important.”
link: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/28/obama-says-he-is-considering-iraq-trip/
May 28, 2008 8:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Caved.
May 28, 2008 8:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain sets the agenda.
Obama fails to lead.
May 28, 2008 8:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
"For weeks, aides to Mr. Obama have been quietly discussing a foreign trip, but the long Democratic nominating fight has delayed making any concrete plans."
May 28, 2008 9:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
"When asked about former White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan's new book, Clinton said he hadn't seen it yet, adding, "From what I read it seems to confirm what Joe Wilson has always said about his own experience. And it shows all the more why it's important that we change the direction of the country and pick the best President."
Yes, Hillary Clinton.
May 28, 2008 8:43 PM | Reply | Permalink