NARAL Affiliates Question Mothership's Endorsement Of Obama
WaPo's Garance Franke-Ruta has a nice get: It appears that the ferment continues in the pro-choice movement over NARAL's surprise endorsement of Obama yesterday...
NARAL Pro-Choice America affiliates in key swing and primary states are openly distancing themselves from the decision by NARAL Pro-Choice America to endorse Illinois Sen. Barack Obama over Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton to be the Democratic nominee for president.Since yesterday's announcement, NARAL groups in Pennsylvania, Missouri, Oregon, Washington, Texas and New York -- Clinton's home state -- have issued statements signaling their continued neutrality in the Democratic race and emphasizing that the national group did not speak for them on this matter. These groups represent nearly a quarter of NARAL's state chapters.
NARAL's Missouri chapter was so adamant about remaining neutral that it pumped a robocall yesterday into 8,500 homes stressing that many in its membership are strong supporters of Hillary.
Obviously the NARAL endorsement was a huge get for Obama, but you can't avoid the fact that this was a really mystifying decision for NARAL to make. All it did was alienate huge swaths of its membership and fundraising base, and it's hard to see how the endorsement did anything to accomplish the group's stated goal of uniting African Americans and female activists.















I'm not surprised that local affiliates are angry at something the national group decided to do, particularly after NARAL chose to back "Rape gurney" Joe Lieberman here in CT.
May 15, 2008 10:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
That was a really bad decision by NARAL in backing Lieberman.
May 15, 2008 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was a terrible decision. But that was a state NARAL decision. And it has nothing to do with the Obama endorsement.
May 15, 2008 10:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks for pointing out it was a state chapter. That certainly changes my perception of NARAL.
May 15, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm pretty sure it was the other way around, The national chapter endorsed Lieberman, but the CT chapter actually distanced themselves from that.
here is a link it doesn't say whether it was the state or local branch, but the (now dead) link goes to the national chapter of NARAL, not the state.
So yeah, you actually have it backwards.
May 15, 2008 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, indeed.
The NATIONAL office backed Lieberman, against the wishes of the local office.
May 15, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Thanks! I stand corrected.
That's absolutely no way to run an organization!
On the other hand, it still has no bearing on the Obama decision, which involves the endorsement of a national candidate.
May 15, 2008 10:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
HUH?
The local NARAL here backed Lamont. The national NARAL backed Lieberman.
May 15, 2008 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
No shit and every time they've called me since I've told them to take and hike and told them that's why - they wouldn't back Ned Lamont and I washed my hands of NARAL from that point on.
May 15, 2008 10:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
While I agree that the NARAL endorsement was a good get for Camp Obama, I do wish they would have waited until after the nomination was settled before they endorsed.
I don't blame their members or their affiliates for being miffed.
Of course, I believe that union and organizational endorsements should wait until the general, but I digress...
May 15, 2008 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think NARALs timing was because they consider the nomination already settled.
They have a point, Obama has won, it is over. Nobody booked passage on the Titanic AFTER the iceberg hit it.
May 15, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Haha, I like that, true true.
May 15, 2008 10:16 AM | Reply | Permalink
True, but as I mentioned to LuxVeritas, as long as Hillary is telling her supporters that the race is not over, the race is not over and the endorsement was premature, in their eyes. And NARAL should have been sensitive to that.
May 15, 2008 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Why? Why does NARAL owe any loyalty to Hillary? Why isn't there endorsement about backing the individual that they believe will ensure that pro-choice rights are protected for women?
May 15, 2008 10:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think they owe Hillary a damned thing. Trust me, I'm happy that Obama can get the support of traditionally female-oriented organizations.
But NARAL should have realized that, in an election year that is this divisive, and knowing their members could feel very passionate about their chosen candidate for the nomination, there would have been a backlash. They could have waited until Hillary either concedes or the convention, and their members wouldn't have batted an eye at the endorsement. As it stands, they now have hundreds of messages from members who will not refuse to donate money, cancel their memberships, etc.
May 15, 2008 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
I see your point. But, NARAL has an agenda that goes beyond Hillary. And its members ought to recognize that. It's not a tool to advance the political career of Hillary Rodham Clinton. No doubt they'll have some backlash. But, I would expect them to be able to absorb that and move on with their actual mission - to do what they can and must to protect pro-choice rights for women.
May 15, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Last time I remember hillary doing anything choice-related, it was working with republicans to restrict it...
May 15, 2008 10:58 AM | Reply | Permalink
I understand what you are saying but respectfully disagree. Thier endorsement after the primary season has officially ended would net them nothing, hell, I doubt anybody would even notice. Of course they aren't going to endorse McSame, if they did thier entire organization would go belly up overnight. By endorsing now they gain a certain amount of leverage over Obama, well, not leverage so much as access.
Endorsements meen little, forgone-conclusion-endorsements meen absolutely nothing. Think about it; organaizations like the SFFOTP (the Society For Fucking Over The Poor) always endorse the GOP candidate. To do anything else would be treason. So then the question becomes one of timing.
May 15, 2008 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Have you read this?
THAT is why I think they should have waited. Those are some pissed-off members there.
May 15, 2008 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
effing A.
One of the comments was how NARAL sold out to the american left, as if that wasn't where every good idea this nation has had came from, including birth control and women's rights...
May 15, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
Every time any organization endorses anyone some members of said organization get pissed. The same thing happened with unions. Hillary, who sat on the board of wallmart and did nothing for unions, got plenty of union support. I have no doubt that angered some, but as she was the "inevitable" nominee union members got over it.
This isn't any different.
May 15, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
But it is settled, and everyone knows it, so this outrage is ridiculous. Hell, look at the intrade market, Obama is almost as high as McCain and he has been the official mathematically unbeatable Republican nominee for months now!
IT IS OVER, there is no reason that NARAL or anywhere else should sit on the sidelines out of respect to the fact that Hillary has a vagina and Obama doesn't. But that's what this is all about, they are attacking NARAL for being some kind of gender-traitor, just like how they attacked Oprah when she endorsed Obama, just like they attacked Bill Richardson and Kennedy and everyone else they felt they were somehow "entitled" to. It is shameful how these people are reacting, but it is par for the course from Hillary and her hardcore supporters. This was NEVER about the Democratic Party or the issues or shared values, it was always personal, always about HER and HER quest for power. I'm sick of it, and completely disgusted that these people are in the same party as me, and call themselves pro-choice when they put identity politics above all else, and with such vitriol.
May 15, 2008 10:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agree. By intrade's reckoning, Obama's odds of not getting the nomination are barely greater than John McCain dropping dead before the convention!
May 15, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, you and I and most Obama supporters agree that the race is over.
But as long as Hillary keeps on telling her supporters that it's not over, it's not over in their minds and NARAL should have been sensitive to that.
May 15, 2008 10:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
They did hold off until the nomination was essentially a done deal, however. Why shouldn't their nomination influence politics... is it supposed to be meaningless?
May 15, 2008 11:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
You know, I think you (and Carol and nisleib and others) are right. I was falling into the whole "Oh Noes! What will we ever do??!?" hand-wringing trap.
Inhale pink, exhale blue.
May 15, 2008 11:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I think that what's interesting here is the notion that these advocacy groups should have fealty to a particular candidate - rather than advocating for whatever candidate will advance their advocacy issue.
In this case, there's a presumption that pro-choice is joined with feminists and that feminists back Hillary. I think that's not a perfect marriage.
What probably is true is that their membership at State and local levels may be disproportionately supporters of the Hillary campaign. You could argue that there's some disjointedness in their endorsement in that sense - but that's an internal issue for their organization. It doesn't suggest that the endorsement itself was inappropriate politically.
May 15, 2008 12:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why would NARAL's timing be inappropriate but Emily's List and the NY Chapter of NOW's vehement endorsements long ago okay?
May 15, 2008 11:56 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was a GENERAL ELECTION endorsement, are these people THAT stupid?? How do they not get this? This had nothing to do with Hillary and everything to do with Obama vs McCain. Do they expect NARAL and the pro-choice movement to remain neutral until November? We all know Hillary CANNOT WIN. SHE HAS LOST! Why should people wait to endorse until August or October or December or never when Hillary finally "officially" gives up? Her chances of winning now and her chances of winning in three months are the same: ZERO. So what the hell is the problem with this? They never said Obama was better than Hillary, they just said what everyone knows: this primary is over, we have our nominee, now let's take on the real threat to reproductive rights: John McCain.
I swear NARAL members are a bunch of children.
May 15, 2008 10:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Can I pile on? Even if you set aside whether or not she can win (which is a bit like talking about water but setting aside the Atlantic and Pacific oceans), of the NARAL affiliates listed as flipping out about this, the only state that hasn't already held a primary is Oregon! Are the other states still weighing John Dubya McCain as a possible endorsee?
May 15, 2008 10:17 AM | Reply | Permalink
Clinton supporters in, and out, of NARAL are the last people to realize that Clinton has already lost. So, no, they simply cannot understand that the general election campaign has begun in all but name and that Hillary Clinton is, at least so long as she keeps her primary campaign active, almost wholly irrelevant to it.
On the other hand, it has been absolutely clear that many Clinton supporters don't understand this, so NARAL should have recognized that its decision would result in a firestorm of protest from Clinton supporters (perhaps even with organizational support from the Clinton campaign).
My guess is that NARAL figured (probably correctly) that Clinton supporters will figure out sooner rather than later that they've lost, that they will then begin to support Obama (despite what exit polls might say), that the NARAL general election endorsement of Obama might hasten that realization of defeat, and that NARAL gains little by waiting around for Clinton supporters before getting going on the general election fight.
May 15, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Good point. Everyone who doesn't think like you is stupid.
Must be tough, sometimes, being a member of the elite "smart" group, when the group of "stupids" is so large. How do you ever bear the burden?
Thanks.
mp
May 15, 2008 10:19 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, but since NARAL is a voluntary org, if they don't agree with my position then they aren't getting my support or money and that is a consideration for NARAL or any other group and a legitimate one.
.
May 15, 2008 10:24 AM | Reply | Permalink
I would tread lightly if I were you, Mikey. Anybody who comes here can click on your name and be instantly linked to the crap that has been spewing out of your keyboard over the last few days.
What's that old quote about "removing all doubt"?
May 15, 2008 10:59 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't understand the thought process of the local affiliates.
They don't say they are mad they endorsed Obama. They say they wish they had waited. If they know Naral would have endorsed anyway, why wait ?
May 15, 2008 10:10 AM | Reply | Permalink
Not only NARAL, but unions and the party itself are experiencing internal fights as this struggle drags on. That is what is going to happen as long as there is not certainty. The Superdelegates need to make their preferences known and bring the mess to an end, so we can all unite behind a nominee and get on with it. If they are going to rush to Clinton -- highly unlikely -- they should make that known. If they are going to go toward Obama in sufficient numbers to resolve this, they should do that now. In organizational life and politics, it is often presumed that delay is costless. But in fact, delay and prolonged uncertaintly are often the costliest options, at least for the interests of the whole endeavor. Right now, delay only helps McCain.
May 15, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely, Prof. Skocpol!
It cannot be stressed enough that this campaign represents a complete failure of the superdelegate system itself.
The superdelegates were instituted to avoid drawn-out primary fights like the Democratic Party experienced in 1980.
With no superdelegate involvement, this race would be entirely over, as Obama will clearly receive a majority of the pledged delegates.
What's dragging things out is the remaining 237 undecided superdelegates' refusal to choose. And that refusal is actually pretty understandable. Far from being objective judges of what's good for the party, the superdelegates tend to have a personal interest in the outcome of the race. As elected and party officials, they potentially stand to lose influence if they back a losing candidate in a close race. And it's not clear that they gain by declaring earlier for a winner.
Even if the superdelegates finally flocked to Obama, the fact that they are never bound might allow a second-place candidate to nurture the fantasy of flipping them before the actual convention vote. In 1980, Kennedy had to place his slender hopes on convincing the delegates to change the rules so that they would even be allowed to change their vote. But superdelegates are already entirely free to vote anyway they want, regardless of what verbal commitments they've given.
Thus, far from bringing about a swift and decisive resolution, the superdelegates are now the problem. That party leaders in the early 1980s felt that superdelegates were a plausible solution to the party's problems reflects how suspicious Democratic Party elites were (and to a certain extent still are) of grassroots party activists, who were automatically blamed for whatever electoral and organizational problems the party experienced.
May 15, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
If only you had spoken like this about the need for unity back when, instead of coming out with a vengeance against Hillary Clinton and then some as you did. You have no standing to speak about unity. You chose divisiveness in this campaign, and you don't fool any of us who read what you chose to write, and the positions you chose to take. You are a divider and not a uniter, and you should remain in places like Election Central where the other Hillary haters roam. Words do matter, and they will. In your case, your words have done nothing to help Senator Obama, whom this Hillary Clinton supporter will vote for in November without hesitation, but with the poison you spewed about Hillary Clinton, you have indeed done your part to help the Republicans, including John McCain. Nice work.
May 15, 2008 10:37 AM | Reply | Permalink
Aren't you presuming here that Prof. Skopcol was divisive in failing to support Hillary? That anyone who did not fall lockstep behind Hillary is a traitor to the Democratic Party? Do you really believe that? Please explain your position here Bslev.
May 15, 2008 10:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Carol, the professor has every right to express her positions about the Clintons, but I have the right to call her on unity language when I feel that it conflicts with her prior comments. I'm just into pointing out hypocrisy; I think she should stick to hating the Clintons. For example, and then you can all have fun with me, here's what the professor wrote in April:
"I think this whole angle of "gotcha" politics about snippets of speech transposed from one context to another is ridiculous and pathological for democracy in America -- and I cannot fathom why the Clintons or George Stephanopoulos are descending to this dirt, not to mention the guilt-by-association crap. It is particularly despicable of them to criticize Obama for the sort of observation/analysis that was routine in and around the 1990s Clinton White House. And I cannot help but feel there is a psychological edge of pure envy in Bill Clinton's attacks: Obama is empathetic and charismatic as well as smart, just like Bill was back then, in those so much better days!
"Over and out. I am going to try to find a way to preserve in amber my better memories and feelings about the Clintons, so as not to lose altogether the sense of admiration I once felt, but can no longer".
http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/04/17/what_she_said/
I don't question the professor's right to discuss what went on in meetings with the Clintons in 1995, or to criticize them the way she did above. I do have the right to question her credentials as a unifier based upon things that she has previously written, and that's just what I have done.
Let the name-calling continue.
May 15, 2008 10:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
The passage you highlight doesn't establish your point. Rather it ENFORCES the notion that the Clinton campaign has engaged in tactics that it deplored ad nausem during the 1990s. Some would call it hypocrisy. Me, I settle on political expediency and desperation.
The reality is that the Clinton campaign made it's bed and is now having to lie in it. That doesn't mean that we all can't move forward to the fall. On the contrary, the willingness to move forward by progressive, including the Professor, in SPITE of the Clinton's tactics, bodes well for true unification in the coming months.
Obama is the Democratic Nominee. It's time to circle the wagons and make the final push to November. Hopefully you and other Clinton supporters agree.
May 15, 2008 11:04 AM | Reply | Permalink
LOL.
May 15, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have the nervous twitch to. Laughing when I don't really have a response. See, we have common ground.
May 15, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
I have responded and then some. I laughed at your response because you are unable to understand how what the professor wrote affects different people differently. Everyone knows that you hate Hillary Clinton, so why would you have any problem with what the professor wrote? That's why I laughed, if you really wanted an explanation.
May 15, 2008 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I don't see anything divisive about the quote you pulled. In fact, I support it 100%. That has been THE MAIN PROBLEM with Hillary's campaign for a lot of Democrats. She has shown no reservations about doing exactly what she has so long decried. It's sad, really. Pointing that fact out doesn't mean you're attacking Hillary; unless holding up a mirror in front of her face constitutes attacking her. To many of us, she has become what she claimed to be so stridently against...
May 15, 2008 11:11 AM | Reply | Permalink
That's fine, but don't think that you can help to unify the Party when those who you seek to unify are aware of how you and others feel and what you have written. Of course, not everyone is an avid reader of these pages so maybe you and others can hide what you've written. It's cool. You've made your choices, and I don't question your sincerity. But you need to leave the unity stuff to others, that is to the extent you are dealing with those of us who have read what you've written in this campaign. Don't worry; not everyone supporting Obama has an Election Central mentality. There are many unifiers like me who have not denigrated the integrity of either candidate, and so I promise to do what I can to help elect Senator Obam (as I've proudly done for every Democratic candidate since 1984 (I skrewed up in 1980 and voted for Barry Commoner and I won't do that again) :)).
May 15, 2008 11:23 AM | Reply | Permalink
No name-calling, but I will point out that your logic here basically precludes anyone who previously advocated for one or the other candidate from transitioning, once a winner is clear (now), to advocating for party unity.
We're not going to get very far like that.
May 15, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
There is work to do, yes, but in the real world people will come together. Senator Obama will have the support of the vast and substantial majority of Clinton supporters, regardless of the pain that has been caused by what has been written at places like TPM. I just think it's ridiculous and disingenuous, and frankly synthetic, to simply ignore what people have written in the past in this community. If, for example, you hated Hillary last week, if last week you called her supporters racists or supporters or excusers of racism last week, why should that be ignored this week? How can it be ignored?
May 15, 2008 11:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
bruce,
i don't know, i don't read those particular quotes as being especially divisive or vengeful even though i tend to agree with your larger point.
May 15, 2008 11:57 AM | Reply | Permalink
Carol:
You write:
"Aren't you presuming here that Prof. Skopcol was divisive in failing to support Hillary? That anyone who did not fall lockstep behind Hillary is a traitor to the Democratic Party."
I have a long record here. Back up this presumption with something, please. You're chiding the wrong guy. But perhpas that's how it works at Election Central. So I won't try to convince you otherwise.
May 15, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
My questions to you and requests for clarification were because I was surprised and confused by your response to Prof. Skocpol. She make some insightful comments about how NARAL's endorsement and other impending endorsements by key groups and SuperDels can potentially bring an end to this primary and transition us smoothly into the General Election. You then responded to her by calling her a divider and suggesting that she restrict her comments to the Cafe.
I read the column that you excerpted from Prof. Skocpol previously in the cafe, and I suppose that you support Hillary's campaign and resent Prof. Skocpol's previous comments. I still don't think that makes her a divider, but that's neither here nor there. I just felt like her comment in this section in regards to NARAL's endorsement was relevant and insightful and didn't understand where you were coming from in your response to her here.
May 15, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Are you clinging to guns and religion also? Cuz you sure are bitter.
May 15, 2008 10:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
I will not respond to you; I will to the poster above. I consider you to be one of the idiots.
May 15, 2008 10:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
I understand that, but I think you take a damn harsh stance against the Prof., though I just thought some levity was in order.
But thanks for the insult!
May 15, 2008 11:20 AM | Reply | Permalink
Dorn:
When you start writing to me without insulting me I will stop calling things as I see them. I am not in the habit of calling a fellow poster an idiot.
May 15, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ok, agreed, but you had to see the humor in calling you "bitter" given I also added the "clinging to guns and religion" part....Which I thought was somewhat self-deprecating coming from an Obama supporter like myself. No offense intended.
May 15, 2008 11:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
None taken.
May 15, 2008 11:43 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ok, no insult meant then. But I'm still an idiot. I get it.
May 15, 2008 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, you are not an idiot. Withdrawn.
May 15, 2008 12:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
and it's hard to see how the endorsement did anything to accomplish the group's stated goal of uniting African Americans and female activists.
Huh? How would staying neutral at this moment accomplish that goal? Neutrality is a tacit endorsement of Hillary Clinton, and supporting Obama would raise their esteem in the AA community.
Besides, it isn't like "Women" as a class don't support Obama, it's just older women. Younger women who are the future of the feminist movement are much more likely to support Obama and are probably alienated by the "Vote for Clinton because she's a woman, no matter what" attitude of many of the older feminists who seem to support her based solely on gender.
Plus, Young women are the ones who would be most affected by pro-choice issues.
May 15, 2008 10:12 AM | Reply | Permalink
This is silliness. NARAL's endorsement is appropriate. Obama has a strong pro-choice record, as does Hillary. The only reason to back Hillary over Obama would be because she's a woman. And I really don't see the point of that.
May 15, 2008 10:18 AM | Reply | Permalink
Absolutely.
I hope these "women scorned" will get the hell over it - and soon.
May 15, 2008 10:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
Have you seen the kind of insanity they're descending into at in the bunkers of Hillary's last redoubts on the Internet?
I suspect that a lot of Hillary's remaining supporters are just people for whom mathematical realities are not real, the kind of people who'll sit watching returns come in after its been called, 86% of the precincts are in and their candidate is behind by 16 points believing that the remaining 14% of the precincts can still turn it around. They're not going to get over it it until its official because they simply don't get math.
Then there are the commenters at Hillis44 and Taylor's marsh. They've sealed themselves off from reality and they perpetually egg each other on into ever greater depths of insanity. There is no rumor or slander about Barack too vile to be believed and embellished and no fact about Hillary too big or too incontrovertible to be ignored or denied. They'll never get over it.
I hope there's a sociology or psych grad student watching what's going on over there, because there's material enough for a dozen dissertations.
May 15, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ludmilla, Godzilla, and Dogzilla.
Really creative.
May 15, 2008 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ahem - Milo, Mila- same troll.
May 15, 2008 10:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno -- doesn't use the same sentence construction as Milo.
May 15, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
Please, don't feed the trolls.
May 15, 2008 10:29 AM | Reply | Permalink
He has a 100% rating from the group, has been a consistent and dependable defender of a woman's right to choose and he's going to be the nominee. None of these FACTS are in dispute. So, I fail to see what the controversy is all about. Unless this is because he has a penis, or rather doesn't have a vagina. I hope that's not the case.
May 15, 2008 10:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ding! Ding! Ding!
It's the penis, IMO.
May 15, 2008 10:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
I can't comment on why the message boards were swamped with outrage yesterday. My beef with this endorsement is that, once again, the national office is ignoring, or discarding, the local affiliates.
The sort of top-down, "we know better" approach that really rankles me.
Obama most certainly deserves their endorsement and so does Clinton, so it's not who they endorsed that I take issue with, it's how it was done.
May 15, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll grant your point (about process), but I think the larger issue is that they (the National Office) was attempting to turn toward the real threat to their group: John McCain. The fact that these local offices are getting bent out of shape about a general election endorsement detracts from that critical point.
McCain wants to overturn Roe v. Wade. That needs to be repeated often.
May 15, 2008 10:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with you wholly and I went to their site and commented thusly:
May 15, 2008 11:14 AM | Reply | Permalink
Plus there is something to be said for making a decision and riding out the initial furor. I wish more superdelegates would follow NARAL's lead. This charade needs to end . . . OFFICIALLY.
May 15, 2008 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, this needs to be over STAT. If I hadn't know the history of NARAL/Lieberman, I'd have nothing to say about this endorsement, other than, great!
I understand the timing issue that others have raised, so it makes sense that they would come out now. And if Hillary Clinton were Henry Clinton, people wouldn't be going berserk over this announcement. So, as you and others have pointed out, the furor has to do with the fact that NARAL backed a man rather than a woman.
How sad, and trivial.
May 15, 2008 10:51 AM | Reply | Permalink
The controversy is that it's being spun as a slam against Hillary rather than an endorsement of Obama. It's silly because, and I say this not to belittle NARAL's influence, their endorsement isn't going to change the outcome of this nomination process. They're not knee-capping Hillary - she already lost the battle.
May 15, 2008 10:40 AM | Reply | Permalink
Agreed.
In the first place, NARAL doesn't have the national chops that Planned Parenthood has - it's not as well known and it's not organized as well - and this argument is kind of evidence of that.
They fucked up badly by refusing to endorse Ned Lamont and I question their political wisdom - it's sorely lacking, IMO.
May 15, 2008 10:48 AM | Reply | Permalink
The NARAL endorsement will help bring together voters if it encourages Clinton to get out of the race. IIf it were assured that Clinton would drop out immediately after Puerto Rico, then NARAL's decision would indeed look pretty foolhardy. But I don't think there's any guarantee that Clinton *will* drop out before the convention (or even, god help us, afterwards) unless the party makes it very clear that she has absolutely, positively, inarguably, no way of winning. The only way that she can be made to go is if somebody, somewhere, takes some political chances, and tells her she's lost. That's what NARAL is doing; it's what John Edwards did. And both those endorsements, I think, make it at least marginally more likely that Clinton will do the right thing and endorse the nominee sooner rather than later.
May 15, 2008 10:33 AM | Reply | Permalink
And I suppose that's why this is seen as a betrayal. Because the endorsement recognizes that HRC can't win the nomination. But, that's not news really to anyone. It's reality and it's in everyone's best interests, with the exception of Hillary's personal interests, to recognize that and move forward.
May 15, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
The national leadership of NARAL is being smart. They are making sure that they will have access to the Democratic Nominee, and potentially the next president. They could not afford to delay. Women's reproductive rights issues are far too important to play the short sighted, going down with the ship, game. The local chapters can dither all they want to, but the national leadership will need access to the leader of the Democratic party. They had to get on board now. Good for them for recognizing that.
May 15, 2008 10:47 AM | Reply | Permalink
liam - you are right. I totally agree with you.
May 15, 2008 10:50 AM | Reply | Permalink
Regardless of the wisdom of NARAL's timing, I simply don't understand the *anger* at them for this endorsement. Looking at both Clinton and Obama in a vacuum, there's not really a whole lot of difference with respect to reproductive choice. You can probably make a case that one or the other is a *stronger* advocate of reproductive rights even though their voting records are similar, but still, both candidates are clearly pretty darn pro-choice.
What's the worse possible thing that can happen to NARAL's cause? Quite simply, it's a McCain presidency. Look at the Supreme Court right now and it's pretty easy to see that the next president will have a good shot at making 1 or 2 appointments to the bench even in their first term. It seems to me that NARAL probably wanted to sit out and refrain from endorsing in the primary and to then come out and endorse the Democratic candidate after the nomination is over.
But what if NARAL starts sensing that the Democratic Primary is damaging to the Democrats and gives McCain a better shot at winning the presidency? In that case, even if you think that Clinton is on the merits better for reproductive rights than Obama, isn't it reasonable to place a higher priority on keeping McCain out of office and doing whatever is possible to prevent that?
I guess what I am saying is that I can understand Clinton's supporters being *disappointed* in NARAL's decision. But *angry*? Give me a break. Democrats on both sides are missing a hell of a lot of perspective these days.
May 15, 2008 10:54 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just a reminder here. The Clinton campaign pulled a fast one on pro-choice women in New Hampshire by duping a group of their leaders into signing on to a flyer that deliberately misled them about Obama's record on choice.
Can't remember if that happened before or after Kyle-Lieberman, but that's when she lost this aging, white, pro-choice feminist.
None of the similar women that I know are any longer supporting Clinton for various reasons, but that is mine.
So let's remember that a significant portion of us no longer relevant crones deserted her long ago.
I sent NARAL a small check and a nice note today, figured they could use a little cheering up.
I hope their stated goal of helping to heal the divide between avid feminist Clinton supporters and African Americans works out, but there's an old wound there that pre-dates this campaign and these candidates.
May 15, 2008 11:00 AM | Reply | Permalink
It was after Kyl-Zellberman.
May 15, 2008 11:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
oh, nice!
May 15, 2008 11:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry - how is alienating a huge portion of your donor/activist base smart?
The endorsement may help Obama, if only by making his nomination seem that much more inevitable, but it really doesn't gain much for NARAL. They already had access to a Democratic nominee, regardless of who it was.
If they'd backed him earlier, it might have bought them some extra pull. Backing him now just makes them look like bandwagon-jumpers.
May 15, 2008 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
NARAL simply recognised that not to endorse Obama was to endorse McSame. And, perhaps, NARAL recognizes that it needs to represent the interests of women who are not menopausal. HRC and her crowd don't have to worry about unwanted pregnancies... they are too old to get pregnant. Hence, we see HRC promoting John McSame.
May 15, 2008 11:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
A simple question to the unhappy affiliates: Are you really willing to give the WH to John McSame? Endorsing HRC is the same thing as endorsing John McSame. The NARAL endorsement is about facing reality: HRC is the loser.
May 15, 2008 11:06 AM | Reply | Permalink
Endorsing McSame or even HRC aren't the only alternatives.
They didn't need to endorse anyone until after the Dems declare a winner.
They just screwed someone who's been a great ally in the Senate, and pissed off a lot of their core supporters.
Whether or not YOU like HRC, this was a dumb move.
May 15, 2008 11:21 AM | Reply | Permalink
HRC has never been a friend of "choice." Just listen to language.
May 15, 2008 11:55 AM | Reply | Permalink
No, she's not "friend of choice."
She's just scored a 100% rating from NARAL itself every year she's been in the Senate ;)
But I agree - listen to the language and don't worry about who's mouth it's coming out of.
May 15, 2008 3:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, stop editorializing. It was only six states, a third of which are here "home" state. That does not, by any measure, constitute large swathes.
Has anybody considered that the feminist group endorsed Obama because Clinton is making women look bad to the borderline sexists and making feminists look bad to even moderate feminists?
May 15, 2008 11:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
I'll tell you what - she has embarrassed the hell out of me as a woman.
All that shot-slamming, gun-toting bullshit - I expected her to grab her crotch and spit at any moment.
She set women in the professions back 50 years.
And she's so behind the times it isn't funny anymore.
May 15, 2008 11:38 AM | Reply | Permalink
Just a reminder here. The Clinton campaign pulled a fast one on pro-choice women in New Hampshire by duping a group of their leaders into signing on to a flyer that deliberately misled them about Obama's record on choice.
Can't remember if that happened before or after Kyle-Lieberman, but that's when she lost this aging, white, pro-choice feminist.
None of the similar women that I know are any longer supporting Clinton for various reasons, but that is mine.
So let's remember that a significant portion of us no longer relevant crones deserted her long ago.
I sent NARAL a small check and a nice note today, figured they could use a little cheering up.
I hope their stated goal of helping to heal the divide between avid feminist Clinton supporters and African Americans works out, but there's an old wound there that pre-dates this campaign and these candidates.
May 15, 2008 11:08 AM | Reply | Permalink
The issue here for me is who made the decision. Is there one person who makes a decision for national NARAL, five people, ten? It seems that whatever the number was, it wasn't enough. The decision was made without the consent of membership. That seems really wrong to me.
I guauntee that most of the membership and financial supporters of NARAL are white women over 40. I'm willing to bet that a majority of their membership still support Hillary over Obama, and as long as that is the case, they should not have endorsed obama.
May 15, 2008 11:09 AM | Reply | Permalink
Greg, why was this decision "mystifying".
They endorsed the democratic nominee. DId their members expect them to endorse the republican who thinks abortions are illegal and the women who get them should be thrown in jail? That would have been mystifying.
May 15, 2008 11:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
in fact, it would have truly been mystifying if they hadn't endorsed the democratic nominee who has scored a 100% on NARAL's own rating scale. So its hard to see why these groups are sooo upset.
May 15, 2008 11:30 AM | Reply | Permalink
oops. source is here:
http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/statements/obama.html
May 15, 2008 11:31 AM | Reply | Permalink
On seven different occasions Obama had the opportunity to support womens reproductive freedoms, but he lacked the courage to do so and instead voted present. Hardly a profile in courage.
An endorsement by an organization, without the support of it membership is meaningless.
May 15, 2008 11:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Unlike Emily's List, NARAL is not an official organ of the Clintonista Party. The endorsement was appropriate and fine.
May 15, 2008 11:27 AM | Reply | Permalink
CAT FIGHT!
But predictable. She's divided the Democratic Party so why not the Women's Movement
Who next for Tuzla's Terror?
We're caught in the Bonfires of Clintons' Vanities
Vice-President - what a crock
May 15, 2008 11:28 AM | Reply | Permalink
You are a disgrace to YOUR gender. That was a sexist remark.
May 15, 2008 4:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Non-story IMO.
Of course there will be dissenters.
But once Obama becomes the official nominee, all these chapters will come on board.
And hopefully, those few like this person
http://nomoreapples.blogspot.com/2008/05/naral-texas-not-consulted-on-obama.html
will eventually see the light.
(But it would be nice if Bonnie Grabenhofer, president of Illinois NOW, saw it first)
May 15, 2008 11:41 AM | Reply | Permalink
As others have said, this isn't about Obama vs. Clinton. It's about Obama vs. McCain. More and more groups and people are recognizing the reality that Obama will be the Democratic nominee. When are they allowed to stop waiting for Clinton, who as of last night is still talking about delegates changing their minds at the convention, to recognize it?
May 15, 2008 11:44 AM | Reply | Permalink
But should an organization endorse a candidate that it's membership opposes.
"We the board endorse Barack Obama for President. Our membership, who funds this organization and does all the leg work endorses... well, fuck them, who cares who they want to be president."
What's the value of an endorsement of an organization without the support of it's members?
May 15, 2008 11:52 AM | Reply | Permalink
Well, look at NOW for the effectiveness of such a policy.
You have "rogue" chapters like New York and Illinois (!) still supporting Hillary, and making a mockery of themselves.
One has to wonder: what is the point of keeping a rabid base if you don't get a candidate who shares your values elected?
(ie, if NOW gets McCain elected over Obama)
May 15, 2008 12:03 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am a strong Obama supporter, but to me making this endorsement now is in line with the endorsements of Lieberman and other incumbents by NARAL national -- they consistently try to do what is "safe" and preserves their place in the power structure rather than take any chance that might better serve their supposed cause.
While it is certainly true that the primary race is effectively over, it is not actually over, so the argument that this is "just" a general election endorsement doesn't hold water. (Not to mention that the endorsement press release specifically talks about Obama and Clinton, not Obama vs. McCain.) If they'd wanted to make a general election endorsement, they could have easily waited a few weeks.
Both candidates were strong on the organization's issues, and they had to know that a large chunk if not a majority of the membership would be upset about the choice. So why do it now?
To me, it seems clear that they wanted to jump on the bandwagon before it was too late, while they could still grab a small shred of "we supported you back when," rather than being another liberal organization that of course supports the Democrat. Which would be fine if it served their cause, but I don't see that it makes the slightest difference to an Obama administration's support for abortion rights.
They found thin technical grounds for supporting the incumbent Lieberman rather than supporting Lamont, whose election would have made the Senate friendlier to their cause, and risking the loss of a slight amount of organizational influence if he lost. Similarly, this endorsement is all about the national leadership keeping their place at the head table at Washington events, and little to do with advancing the causes their membership supports.
May 15, 2008 12:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Its an interesting issue the national organization v. the local chapters.
Several posters indicating that they can't understand why NARAL did this now or why couldn't they wait until the nomination was over.
Folks it is over. This is not a shot at Clinton supporters. Though I voted for Obama in the primary, I could easily support Clinton in a general were she to get the nomination.
The long and short of it is this, though: she cannot get the nomination. Its over, done, through, finished, all over but the crying, the fat lady is signing. . . . pick you own cliche'.
The math has been uniformly horrible for her since the end of February. Ohio, Texas and Penn. did not, and never could, help her enough to offset the 11 in a row she lost in Feb.
The superdelegates are not buying into her arguments about being more electable and are cascading toward him in droves. The most likely reason for this is twofold: one, not a single poll supports her argument and two, the math cannot work out for her, no matter how much she or her supporters would like it to.
She has a right to stay in through June 3rd and she can certainly put up a fight. The facts, however, are not just not in her favor - they are dispositive. There aren't enough delegates of any kind to go out and get.
if John Edwards delegates follow his lead and declare for Obama it would wipe out her win from Tuesday night! actually it would exceed it by 8 - her net 10 to his net 18.
Its time to face facts folks - there was no reason to wait until its decided, because it is decided - its over - Obama won, Hillary did not. Its time to start running a general election and retaking the White House. Chasing dreams of a nomination that is gone is not only illusory, its a waste of time!
May 15, 2008 12:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree completely about the delegate math, but that's not the question. The nomination is just as "over" in June as it is now, and it still doesn't explain why it was in the interests of abortion rights for NARAL to endorse now and piss off half their membership instead of waiting. If they'd done it a couple of months ago, there'd be an argument there, but for a membership organization, the difference between "all over but the shouting" and "all over" is a whole lot of shouting that could have been avoided.
May 15, 2008 12:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hm, I am sure that I will be pelted with eggs around here for saying this, but this is the ideal outcome for an anti-abortion Obama supporter like myself. Obama gets the boost in the democratic primary that comes with the NARAL endorsement, while NARAL itself is torn apart and weakened by infighting. A true win-win...
May 15, 2008 12:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
No pelts at you Greg, I hope anyway. I believe that Senator Obama, though pro-choice, has conveyed more understanding for pro-life Americans than any Democratic candidate for president since good ole' Ruben Askew back in the 80s. I'm a reluctant but steadfast pro-choicer, but I sure I am one of millions of Democratic voters who understand and respect those whose religious or moral convictions require them to oppose abortion. Speak your mind friend.
May 15, 2008 1:08 PM | Reply | Permalink
Thank you, Bruce. As long as I am being invited to speak my mind, I would like to take notice of the fact that we have picked up three congressional seats in heavily republican districts by running anti-abortion democratic candidates. Meanwhile, the republican party has been making inroads in more liberal jurisdictions on the coasts (CA, NJ, NY, etc) by running pro-choice candidates (Schwartzenegger, Whitman, Bloomberg, etc). As such, it is not obvious to me why either party even bothers with an abortion plank. Surely we stand more to gain from having allies in debates about health-care for children or upholding the right to collective bargaining than we stand to lose in debates about abortion laws. Surely the republicans stand more to gain in having allies in their efforts to lower taxes on the wealthy and destroy collective bargaining rights than they stand to lose in abortion debates. It is hard for me to see what either party gains by taking the position which they presently take on this issue at a national level.
May 15, 2008 1:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well, both parties recognize the politics of abortion. There are many Democrats, I surmise, whose lasting commitment to the Democratic Party is a product of the difference between pro-choice judges appointed by Democrats, and pro-life judges appointed by Repbulicans. I also surmise that the same in the converse is true for many Republicans. Consider the thousands of New Yorkers, for example, who register as members of the Right-to-Life Party instead of as Republicans.
May 15, 2008 1:59 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sure, but that rather gets to my own point. After all, there are also folks for whom the most important obstacle standing between them and the democratic party is the abortion plank. Are the more folks who would leave the party if the plank were removed than there are who would join if the plank were removed? I guess it is not clear to me that such is the case for either the democrats or the republicans. Certainly these three special-election pick-ups suggest that the plank is hurting us as much as it is helping us.
May 15, 2008 2:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
The timing issue of the endorsement is a crock. If they had come out FOR Hillary weeks ago or this monring, then their current crop of angry supporters would be showering them with praises and cash. The anger would be more authentic if NARAL endorsed Obama in March. So forget the timing issue in regard to Obama.
A national organization doing something they feel is in their best long term interest? Heavens, where do they get the idea!
NARAL supporting Joe was stupid. National orgs should stay out of local office politics unless it truly rises to an issue of national importance.
But the National org supporting a candidate is fine. Whenever and however they do it. Let the locals choose whoever they want in the primaries of their state or region.
May 15, 2008 1:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
The reaction of Hillary's supporters to the NARAL endorsement (essentially a general election endorsement) has been appalling. It shows a lot about their characters, and illustrates how they care about nothing but Hillary's political ambitions. Some have even said they will vote for McCain, because he is apparently pro-choice now. It is insanity. Check out my blog for my (very long) critique of the common attacks Hillary's supporters have been throwing at NARAL:
http://www.thepersonalispolitical.com/2008/05/what-reaction-to-narals-endorsement.html
May 15, 2008 1:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
I agree with Redshift to a point that, technically, there is a difference between all over and all over but the shouting. That said, the difference is so slim as to be invisible to the naked eye.
The Hillary has a chance and why are you bailing on her nonsense needs to stop. She has a right to continue, agreed. That said its over. yes, I know its disappointing but its over. He has the nomination - at this point its inevitible - frankly even if he came completely derailed by something the nomination couldn't be undone until the convention anyway.
In basketball you foul in the last few minutes hoping to stop the clock, hope the opponent doesn't score and that you can score quick to close the gap. BUT you don't do that when its under a minute and you are down by 25 - there's no point to it, it annoys the fans, and frankly its a waste of time. Anyone complaining about NARAL's endorsement at this point is committing a foul when down by 25 and there's 5 seconds on the clock. Its little more than willfully refusing to see reality.
May 15, 2008 2:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is in reply to Lux Veritas
You are wrong. I am long time member of a prochoice organization. I have participated in HUNDREDS of endorsement decisions.
This is a PRIMARY endorsement....not a general election endorsement. There are still 2 candiates in the race. No matter whether you think it over or not by whatever judgements you make...there are still 2 candidates....that is the defontion of a contested race.
Indeed National NARAL is perfectly cognizant of that even if you are not, because they take part of the endorsement to praise her...which would be unnecessary if she was no long in the race.
So they endorsed in a primary. It is not usual or considered acceptable endorsement practice to choose between 2 prochoice candidates. That is left to the party process to decide. NARAL is not part of the Democratic party apparatus. They injected themselves into a party primary.
Against a candidate who has been a champion on this issue .....from her 3 year battle to get emergency contraception to be over the counter to her sponsorship of the Freddom of Choice act to codify Roe to her clear and vigorous opposition to Alito and Roberts. The endorsement is not only a slap in the face to her...but it undermines the value of the orgainization's own and futrue endorsements if it is done for reason that are of the political moment rather than on the most compelling issues of the organization itself.
This endorsement devalues any future endorsement by NARAL, it devalues the issue because it was a political decision rather one that advanced the aims of the movement itself.
Proof of that is that this endorsement was made without meetings with th ecandidates, without sitdowns with the candidate, without even a commitment from the candidate to support any particular pro choice measure or important agenda item....oh like there was no commitment to support the codification of Roe or even that really basic one to commit to only appointing prochoice Supreme Court Justices...which one would think might matter since Barack Obama considered voting for Roberts becasue he was so intellectually capable...until an aide warned him it was bad for a prsidential run.....but in a 2005 Daily Kos diary Obama defended the Democrats who voted for Roberts.
They gave away the store and got nothing in return....just like Nancy Keenan did when they endorsed Chaffee 18 months before the electiona dn didn't hold his feet to the fire on Alito and Roberts.
Yes they have lots of angry supporters ...who are engry about demeaning a champion on this issue and selling its soul for less than a bowl of porridge.
This was a decision made once again by the strategically inept Nancy Keenan.....who made bad decisons from Lieberman to Chafee.
May 15, 2008 5:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Obama to Naral..."Thanks for the endorsement Sweetie!!"
May 16, 2008 12:07 AM | Reply | Permalink
Ironic too, that ABORTION supporters would be wanting to support McCain.
They need to know Cindy Hensley McCain is related by way of her late father to the death of Arizona Republic journalist Don Bolles. He covered mob influence, and was working on a story of abortion clinic bombings when his car, on display at Washington DC's Newseum, was blown up with him in it.
Ladies, here are a few McCain related names to remember... Eugene Hensley, Jim Hensley, Don Bolles, Dean Tully. http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special01/0528bolles-keyplayers.html
http://www.mattwelch.com/archives/2007/12/23-week/
May 16, 2008 12:44 AM | Reply | Permalink