Contemporary News Accounts Undermine GOP Denials on Confederate Statues
The NRCC is complaining that a DCCC mailer, distributed at the last minute in today's Mississippi special election, makes a false accusation when it says GOP candidate Greg Davis offered to have his town provide a new home for a statue of Confederate Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, who later founded the Ku Klux Klan.
But contemporary news accounts appear to support the DCCC's claim.
The controversy dates back to 2005, when civil rights groups were demanding that Memphis get rid of statues of Forrest and Confederate President Jefferson Davis.
As it turns out, the New York Times reported in August 2005: "Last week, the mayor of Southaven, Miss., a fast-growing city where many white Memphians have moved over the years, said he would be happy to have the Forrest equestrian statue in Southaven." Davis was, and still is, the mayor of the Memphis suburb of Southaven.
In addition, Mayor Davis clarified his position to the Memphis Commercial Appeal in July 2005: "We weren't going to ask for the statues. We were just placing ourselves as an alternative for if the city wanted to move the statues."
Calls to the NRCC and the Davis campaign for comment were not immediately returned.
(Special thanks to TPM Reader AV.)
Late Update: NRCC spokesman Ken Spain disputed the report that Greg Davis had been open to accepting the Forrest statue, pointing to an article in which he offered to accept the Jefferson Davis statue. However, Spain was unable to offer any article refuting the Times report about the Forrest statue, but referred us to the Davis campaign. Multiple calls to the Davis campaign have not been returned.















Wow. The NRCC is claiming something that isn't strictly factual?
Color me stunned.
I'm looking forward to the results tonight.
May 13, 2008 4:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
I wish this reportage would have been done before the first story softballed the facts, but this should be fun to watch if anything further develops.
May 13, 2008 4:57 PM | Reply | Permalink
Republicans hate it when you tell the truth about them, just like McCain's '100 years in Iraq' comment.
May 13, 2008 5:07 PM | Reply | Permalink
In the GOP / NRCC's eyes, there are lies, which are lies that can be forgiven as part of political "discourse,” and demandable lies, which are in fact truths that can never be forgiven.
May 13, 2008 6:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Rather a distinction without a difference isn't it?
May 13, 2008 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Not that he actually wanted them, per se, just that he didn't want to see them go to waste if, you know, Memphis really was going to throw them out.
May 13, 2008 5:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have you every heard a dog sitting next to the dinner table while you're eating literally ask for something from your plate... Say, "I’m not asking for the food. I’m just placing myself as an alternative if you happen to be full and want to throw out the food."
So the words do not need to be said… Even the dumbest pet owner knows what’s being asked.
May 13, 2008 6:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
I am not so sure why the NRCC is complaining. This is the kind of information that might have motivated more people to vote for Davis rather than vote against him, at least in years past. Maybe times have truly changed.
May 13, 2008 5:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
It was pointed out that had this mailer been a TV ad, it would have gone to a general audience, thereby potentially motivating pro-Davis voters (which I immediately thought would happen).
But the mailer went to a targeted group. Those who would object to Davis' "we're just an alternative spot for those statues" position.
May 13, 2008 5:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I was just talking about this. And, even though seemingly true, it was still a boneheaded and risky move on the part of the DCCC to release it the way and when they did.
May 13, 2008 5:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Hey - which side did McCain fight for in the Civil War?
May 13, 2008 5:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
LOL
May 13, 2008 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain reacted so negatively to the DBC 100 years' war ad because he was a veteran of the last one.
May 13, 2008 5:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
Will John McCain reject and denounce this KKK supporter?
May 13, 2008 5:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
There's only one way that Davis' opponent can hope to compete with this: Hold a cross-burning on his front lawn. That may give him the edge he needs to pull this out.
May 13, 2008 5:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
I dunno.
In several contemporary news accounts, Greg Davis was quite clear that he welcomed the statue of Jefferson Davis. He - apparently deliberately - said nothing about Nathan Bedford Forrest. The exclusion is obvious in repeated quotes. The Times piece that you cite doesn't offer a quote or attribute its information. It says that Davis said it "last week," yet none of the local media sources quoted him at the time to the effect that he would "be happy" to take the statue of Forrest.
The Commercial Appeal quote is the closest thing to a smoking gun. But in the context of the story (which you should post) it's equally plausible that the "we" is Davis and Baker, the mayor of an adjoining town who very much wanted the Forrest statue.
I still don't buy it. I'd like to see a quote from Davis saying, in effect, that he wanted the Forrest statue. He wasn't shy about saying the same for the Jeff Davis statute - he even a tentative site in mind and had talked to the Sons of the Confederacy about it. In fact, he was grandstanding to score political points. He deliberately inserted himself into a raging controversy, and made sure reporters heard what he had to say. So why can't anyone find a quote where he makes it clear he wants Nathan Bedford Forrest in his town? Something less ambiguous than using ambiguous plurals.
Again, I'm not defending the guy, who's certainly guilty of racial demagoguery. But it's worth pointing out that the DCCC based their claim on a Commercial Appeal story. And the story they cited doesn't say what they claim it says. It may be that other C/A stories bear out the claim, but I haven't seen them yet.
May 13, 2008 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahhhhh.... what part of...
"Last week, the mayor of Southaven, Miss., a fast-growing city where many white Memphians have moved over the years, said he would be happy to have the Forrest equestrian statue in Southaven."
...is unclear to you that the mayor of Southaven (Greg Davis) was indeed talking about the Forrest statue and was saying it would be fine for his town to have it displayed?
May 13, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
What I'm doubting is the paragraph's veracity. The reporter doesn't claim to have spoken directly with Davis; doesn't attribute his information; and doesn't offer a quote. In general, that's a sign that he's relying on prior media reports - as a rule, journalists are loath to cite other newspapers when they don't have to. I strongly suspect that the Times got this wrong, and simply conflated Mayor Davis (happy to take Jeff Davis) with the more obscure figure of Mayor Baker (happy to take them both).
I could be off base. I'd be delighted to find evidence that an all-around charming fellow like Greg Davis wanted a Nathan Bedford Forrest statue in his city - a scandal like that couldn't find a nicer guy.
At any rate, with a little luck, in a few hours this will be moot.
May 13, 2008 7:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
The Confederacy (as exemplified by its apologists) is an ongoing disgrace to the United States. They took up arms against their countrymen, in no small part to preserve their ownership of other human beings. And their brain-dead adherents point with (utterly misplaced) pride to the Stars and Bars as an emblem of their "heritage" even today.
Get over it. You lost, and deserved to lose. Maybe the only better thing would have been to let them go and seal the borders.
Imagine an America where Newt Gingrich, Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, and Trent Lott, among other blots on the human race, were unwelcome foreigners. Makes me feel all warm just thinking about it.
It's long past time for the Stars and Bars these yokels revere to be regarded as the equivalent of the Nazi swastika, and held in the same contempt. At least post-World War II Germany seems to have learned from that mistake...
May 13, 2008 6:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
As to the rebellion point: You know that the west (Pittsburgh/Appalachian over Whiskey) and the north (New England circa 1812) took up arms against their countrymen too, right?
I'm no Confederate apologist, just a simple history buff.
Regional insurgencies were nothing new to "these united States" by the time of Fort Sumpter.
May 13, 2008 9:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
How about the "in order to own other human beings" part? Makes something of a difference to me. And, I suspect, to many others.
Was it the only reason? Certainly not. Does it count? Hell yes!
May 13, 2008 11:20 PM | Reply | Permalink
Fort Sumter
May 14, 2008 9:32 AM | Reply | Permalink
West Virginia crushes Obama and spit out the kool aid.
May 13, 2008 7:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Spits out the kool aid and drinks down the moonshine.
May 13, 2008 8:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
get a grip, gotalife.
May 14, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's a bit late now, but it would have been nice if someone would have simply asked Davis if as a newly elected Congressman (representing the whole Congressional District) if he would work to have the statue taken down.
Well, I guess it's not to late.
I'd like to know where a potential US Congressman stands on segregation and intolerance.
And since the NRCC felt compelled to jump in on this, it is appropriate to ask the NRCC where they stand on the retirement of the statue.
May 13, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
AAARRGGHH!!! Here we go again - our ancestors fought in the "Lost Cause" so we're all a bunch of yokels... spoken by someone who lacks the same sense of place and time that many of us southerners appreciate.
Come on, the truth is that war was pretty much the same way back then as it is now - the poor and uneducated do all the bleeding and dying for a cause they have no personal stake in for the benefit of the rich because they've been convinced that either Bin Laden or Gen. Sherman, one or the other, is coming after their family. And personally, I can tell you that Gen. Sherman was was a much larger threat. Bin Laden can only dream of leaving that kind of destruction in his wake.
We don't disrepect our troops now because of the current fiasco we're involved in with Iraq - support the troops, hate the war - and I look at Conferderate soldiers in the same light. They didn't necessarily hold the views or share the interests of the cause they were fighting for. They were cannon fodder. To disrepect their sacrifice is to diminish their lives and to categoricaly taint them the same way you could taint all our current soldiers with the shame of Abu Grave and Guantanimo or for that whole laundry list of crimes against humanity committed under the flag of the US.
I do not revere the "Stars and Bars." Slavery is a terrible blight on our otheriwse rich heritge in the South, one we are constantly reminded of, but one we can not deny. Nevertheless, many a good husband and father met their demise underneath "Stars and Bars," and we hold THEM in reverance, not the foolish cause they were caught up in.
What DOES get my cackles up is to go to upstate NY and see young kids wearing that emblem on t-shirts or displaying it on decals in the rear window of their pickup trucks and remembering that one of my ancestores died of starvation and disease in a POW camp at the hands of one of theirs because he dared fight under that banner. I guess they don't teach history up there.
We pledged our lives and fortunes to the "Lost Cause" - surely the WRONG cause - but in the end our soldiers were treated with the utmost respect after the surrender at Appomatox Court House, and perhaps you should learn a lesson from their actions.
May 13, 2008 9:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ooooh, someone's delicate sensibilities got a tiny bit abraded...
May 14, 2008 1:25 AM | Reply | Permalink
70% reporting, and it looks like Childers has this thing in the bag.
This is most definitely NOT excellent news for the RNCC!!
May 13, 2008 10:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
And it's just been called. Yet another pickup for the Dems in an extremely red district.
Congrats Travis Childers. And rip GOP.
May 13, 2008 10:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bravehart -- Your impassioned defense of the confederate soldiers is interesting. I find it difficult to sympathize with the people who fought in support of the continued enslavement of blacks. In any event, the statute honoring the founder of the Klan needs to go. Let's see if the RNCC renounces and rejects it.
May 13, 2008 10:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
--------> G O P = M E S S
May 14, 2008 1:45 AM | Reply | Permalink
Braveheart - I totally agree with you. I have to say, I did not think of the South - or specifically, the Southerners - in this way. Thank you for providing the perspective.
May 14, 2008 12:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
BTW, the "Stars and Bars" flag was not even the official flag of the confederacy, it was the battle flag. The Official Flag has two red horizontal stripes with a white horizontal stripe in between, and a blue square with a circle composed of stars representing the states of the confederacy.
If you want a good laugh at the inability of some people to let go, check this out:
http://www.newconfederacy.com/
May 14, 2008 2:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good for you braveheart. I'm a northerner and don't sympathize with the south that much. I also think the RNC are mostly idiots, and suspect that G.O.P. stands for "Gang Of Philistines." However, I think it's stupid to deny the existence of historical people and events just because I don't happen to like them. The last thing we need in a free country is to censor history. That seems like a Bush-like sort of thing to do.
May 14, 2008 3:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
We don't need to glorify the sons-of-bitches, either, though.
May 14, 2008 4:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Gen. Forrest is the subject of a very old hoax that has been around since the War. There is no truth to the rumor that he was ever a 'leader of the kkk' or that he was a racist. When he was called to appear at the 1871 US Congressional Committee that investigated the charges of his rumored involvement with that group, he was building a railroad with most of his workers being blacks, whom he paid better wages than other companies were paying whites. He worked to promote civil rights for blacks, and for all men; his speech to the Pole Bearers is proof of that.
Here's part of the transcript of Forrest's testimony to that 1871 hearing:
"The reports of Committees, House of Representatives, second session, forty-second congress," P. 7-449.
In 1871, Gen. Forrest was called before a congressional Committee along with 21 other ex-Confederate officers including Admiral Raphael Semmes, Gen. Wade Hampton, Gen. John B. Gordon, and Gen. Braxton Bragg. Forrest testified before Congress personally over four hours.
Forrest took the witness stand June 27th,1871. Building a railroad in Tennessee at the time, Gen Forrest stated he 'had done more, probably than any other man, to suppress these violence and difficulties and keep them down, had been vilified and abused in the (news) papers, and accused of things I never did while in the army and since. He had nothing to hide, wanted to see this matter settled, our country quite once more, and our people united and working together harmoniously.'
Asked if he knew of any men or combination of men violating the law or preventing the execution of the law: Gen Forest answered emphatically, 'No.' (A Committee member brought up a document suggesting otherwise, the 1868 newspaper article from the "Cincinnati Commercial". That was their "evidence", a news article.)
Forrest stated '...any information he had on the Klan was information given to him by others.'
Sen. Scott asked, 'Did you take any steps in organizing an association or society under that prescript (Klan constitution)?'
Forrest: 'I DID NOT' Forrest further stated that '..he thought the Organization (Klan) started in middle Tennessee, although he did not know where. It is said I started it.'
Asked by Sen. Scott, 'Did you start it, Is that true?'
Forrest: 'No Sir, it is not.'
Asked if he had heard of the Knights of the white Camellia, a Klan-like organization in Louisiana,
Forrest: 'Yes, they were reported to be there.'
Senator: 'Were you a member of the order of the white Camellia?'
Forrest: 'No Sir, I never was a member of the Knights of the white Camellia.'
Asked about the Klan :
Forrest: 'It was a matter I knew very little about. All my efforts were addressed to stop it, disband it, and prevent it....I was trying to keep it down as much as possible.'
Forrest: 'I talked with different people that I believed were connected to it, and urged the disbandment of it, that it should be broken up.'"
The following article appeared in the New York times June 27th, "Washington, 1871. Gen Forrest was before the Klu Klux Committee today, and his examination lasted four hours. After the examination, he remarked than the committee treated him with much courtesy and respect."
Actually, the "kuklos" was started in Pulaski, Tennessee, just before Christmas 1865, by six ex-Confederate officers, and was a sort of social club for Confederate officers.
Gen. Forrest was NOT the 'first Grand Wizard of the KKK". For the correct information on that, here are the actual documented facts :
Bedford Forrest had absolutely nothing to do with the founding of the Ku Klux Klan. And even within the history of the Klan, differences must be noted between the Klan of the 1860s and the Klan of today.
The KKK that was reorganized in 1915 had a well-deserved reputation as a bigoted and sometimes violent organization, fueled by hate and ignorance and thriving on fear and intimidation. But that wasn't always the case. The original KKK of the 1860s was organized as a fun club, or social club, for Confederate veterans. Many historians agree that if a YMCA had been available in the town of Pulaski, Tenn., the KKK might never have existed.
On Dec. 24, 1865, six young Confederate veterans met in the law office of Judge Thomas M. Jones, near the courthouse square in Pulaski. Their names were James R. Crowe, Calvin E. Jones, John B. Kennedy, John C. Lester, Frank O. McCord, and Richard B. Reed. All had been CSA officers and were lawyers, except Kennedy and McCord, who had each served as a private in the Confederate army. The meeting resulted in the idea of forming a social club, an 1860s version of the VFW or American Legion.
Notice, Gen. Forrest was not present at the founding meeting.
Their number quickly grew, and in meetings that followed, the men selected a name based on the Greek word "kuklos" meaning circle, from which they derived the name Ku Klux. Perhaps bowing to their Scotch-Irish ancestry, and to add alliteration to the name, they included "clan," spelled with a K. And so, quite innocently, a new social club called the Ku Klux Klan was created to provide recreation for Confederate veterans.
McCord, whose family owned the town's weekly newspaper, the Pulaski Citizen, printed mysterious-sounding notices of meetings and club activities. As other newspapers picked up his stories about the Klan, word spread and the organization grew.
When the war ended, Forrest was virtually broke, having spent most of his estimated pre-war fortune of $1.5 million outfitting his troops. He was spending his time between business ventures in Memphis and his farm in Mississippi. Organizations such as the Klan were farthest from his mind.
When Forrest was elected Grand Wizard of the Klan in mid-1867 at the Maxwell House Hotel in Nashville, he wasn't even in town. He was elected in absentia. The best scholarly research shows that Forrest never "led the Klan," he never "rode with" the Klan, nor did he ever own any Klan paraphernalia.
The only known order that Forrest issued using his famous name and perceived authority was for the KKK to disband in 1869, which it finally did in 1871. And even that order was written by his longtime friend and former chief artillery officer, Capt. John Watson Morton.
So there you have it. There is no reason to think of Gen. Forrest with anything but admiration and respect. If anyone still thinks badly of Gen. Forrest, that is a reflection of their own bad character, and does not take away from Gen. Forrest's outstanding contributions to humanity.
Always remember, the "kuklos" of the late 1860s wasn't even remotely like the US-flag-waving racist mob on the early 20th century. Above all, remember that Gen. Forrest was NOT 'the first grand wizard of the kkk'.
May 14, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
"We weren't going to ask for the statues. We were just placing ourselves as an alternative for if the city wanted to move the statues."
Rather a distinction without a difference isn't it?
Posted by Lestatdelc
I'm not certain it's without a difference --
"The Ku Klux Klan is out of style: it doesn't use colored sheets." -- Dick Gregory.
May 14, 2008 8:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
"We don't disrepect our troops now because of the current fiasco we're involved in with Iraq - support the troops, hate the war - and I look at Conferderate soldiers in the same light."
Some of us don't overlook the element of personal responsibility in being stupid -- in failing to get the facts before acting.
Thus I have no sympathy for those who were gung-ho, or simply too lazy to learn the facts thus were drafted, as concerns Vietnam. US involvement in that country was illegal, and the facts were readily available substantiating that fact. Those who were too lazy to acquaint themselves with those facts are responsible for the consequences of their laziness.
"They didn't necessarily hold the views or share the interests of the cause they were fighting for."
Nor did they necessarily NOT hold the views or share the insterests.
"They were cannon fodder."
Whose fault was that?
"To disrepect their sacrifice is to diminish their lives and to categoricaly taint them the same way you could taint all our current soldiers with the shame of Abu Grave and Guantanimo or for that whole laundry list of crimes against humanity committed under the flag of the US."
Bullshit: to "disrespect their sacrifice" is called for because they were WRONG. If someone ignores a red light and gets run over, what did they "sacrifice" that must be respected? Yet another instance of laziness and egotism, and the irresponsibility of shifting the blame onto others?
To pretend there was somehow something "noble" about their "sacrifice" is to begin to defend the wrong for which they STUPIDLY "sacrificed" their lives.
May 14, 2008 8:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
"As to the rebellion point: You know that the west (Pittsburgh/Appalachian over Whiskey) and the north (New England circa 1812) took up arms against their countrymen too, right?"
I believe in the second instance you refer to Shays' Rebellion, which occured in 1786-87 -- under the Articles of Confederation. "Whiskey" occurred after ratification of the Constitution, and after the ratification of the Bill or Rights (and, not incidentally, the Second Amendment).
May 14, 2008 8:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
"What DOES get my cackles up is to go to upstate NY and see young kids wearing that emblem on t-shirts or displaying it on decals in the rear window of their pickup trucks and remembering that one of my ancestores died of starvation and disease in a POW camp at the hands of one of theirs . . . ."
Are you sure they weren't later arrivals as immigrants? Well, we don't want to be too careful about our bigotries against Northerners . . .
". . . because he dared fight under that banner. I guess they don't teach history up there."
Say, I've got an idea:
How about reparations for the families of all those who died fighting for the South in defense of slavery because such losses remain so permanently grevious eve up into the present?
Or should we simply be insensitive by instead rubbing salt in the wound by saying: "You were wrong, not wronged. Get over it. Move on."
"We pledged our lives and fortunes to the "Lost Cause" - surely the WRONG cause - . . . ."
And you lost the bet. Stop pretending there was something noble that went on for which the Southern traitors deserve respect.
". . . but in the end our soldiers were treated with the utmost respect after the surrender at Appomatox Court House, . . . ."
But not the Northern soldiers so much at Andersonville. And most/all of those soldiers weren't even black.
The South's "greatest" heritage consists of a anti-democratic monarchical aristocrat's pretense to nobility based upon the most unconscionable of bigotries. And what was the "noble" lost cause in terms of law? The Constitution of the Confederate States of America was identical to the US Constitution -- except that it included prohibitions against any amendments to it, or any other laws, that would adversely affect the institution of slavery. The South's Civil War was based directly upon the intent and effort to preserve slavery. Where is the "noblity" in that? Where is the "nobility" in fighting to defend that under a flag which is in truth the equivalent of the Nazi swastika to everyone except the "noble"?
May 14, 2008 8:49 PM | Reply | Permalink