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McCain: Obama Has Nothing In Common With Hamas -- But The Voters Think It Should Be An Issue, Anyway
John McCain has offered a creative new justification for the use of Obama's alleged endorsement by Hamas as an issue in the campaign: Even though Obama clearly has nothing in common with the organization, people will care about it, anyway.
"It's very obvious to everyone that Senator Obama shares nothing of the values or goals of Hamas, which is a terrorist organization," McCain said. "But it's also a fact that a spokesperson from Hamas said that he approves of Obama's candidacy. I think that's of interest to the American people."
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I'd rather have Hamas approve of my candidacy than Bush.
May 9, 2008 2:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
I may be going out on a limb here, but I presume that this would be of more interest to the american people.
May 9, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
John McCain seems to have a really low opinion of the American People. He also seems to think that Americans are dumb enough to not see that his trying to connect Barack Obama to Hamas is an attempt to play to racial fears because of Obama's name.
It is a few decades for that kind of race-based fear-mongering to work. They are past that even in the Deep South.
May 9, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, John McCain is an all-around 1st class accomplished liar. He lies about his vote and who even cared if he voted for Bush or not, but he just had to lie. He lies about his Church membership and who cares where his CVhurch membership is. wll except the neocon crowd he was hoping to fool. And now, he lies to cover his nasty comment about Obama. Guess what folks, if he lies that often he is a liar!!!!! Nuff said, the straight talker has suddenly gotten all crooked up.
May 9, 2008 6:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Unfortunately, John McCain is an all-around 1st class accomplished liar. He lies about his vote and who even cared if he voted for Bush or not, but he just had to lie. He lies about his Church membership and who cares where his Church membership is, well except the neocon crowd he was hoping to fool. And now, he lies to cover his nasty comment about Obama. Guess what folks, if he lies that often he is a liar!!!!! Nuff said, the straight talker has suddenly gotten all crooked up.
May 9, 2008 6:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
ISN'T THE SOLUTION OBVIOUS?
--- voiceover a still of a KKK rally, with burning cross and hooded figures ---
"John McCain - the choice of the KKK!"
May 9, 2008 5:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
Can't fault you on that one.
May 9, 2008 7:18 PM | Reply | Permalink
Comment below was meant for you anotherreader. I agree on the rather being aendorsed by hamas than George Bush.
May 9, 2008 7:24 PM | Reply | Permalink
"It's very obvious to everyone that Senator McCain shares the values and goals of George W. Bush, who is a terrible President," Jaysin1414 said. "But it's also fact that McCain from Arizona said that he approves of Bush's presidency. I think that's of interest to the American people."
May 9, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
Therefore, please help:
Keep McCain in the Senate!
May 9, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
We've had 8 years of the worst Presidency in the history of our nation and McCain is offering 4 more years of exactly the same.
You'd have to be wacked on crack not to welcome a Obama Presidency.
May 9, 2008 2:36 PM | Reply | Permalink
It most certainly is of interest to me. We just might have a chance of dealing with these people by some means other than a 100 year war.
May 9, 2008 2:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
And Obama's not even begun to mess with the old man' s head
Looking for bearings lost
May 9, 2008 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, I think this is spot on. He has temper issues and Obama would obviously know that since they work in the same "office". I guarantee he's smart enough to have figured out how to push McCain's buttons without being obvious about it.
May 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Plus he's a basketball player. Every roundballer knows how to tug at the shorts, give a discrete elbow to the nuts, and do whatever it takes to throw your opponent off his/her game.
Hell, we've heard about him talking a little trash while playing PIG with a 14 year old in Indiana.
May 9, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain has NOT lost his bearings. Joe L. will testify personally, (very, very personally), to that.
"Lieberman was quick to jump to his ally's defense with characteristic jokiness.
“I just want to report that this morning I personally checked John McCain's bearings. He has not lost any of them," said the white-haired Connecticut senator. "They are all in really great shape.""
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/09/1002921.aspx
May 9, 2008 3:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know, those statements create a visual in my mind that I can't erase.
I'd just like to curse you right now for sharing those comments....
May 9, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, Sen Lieberman, I'm sure you have. I'm impressed you took your head out of his sphincter long enough to even tell us that.
May 9, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's freaking hot.
May 9, 2008 4:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah. Obama (assumption made here) should try to piss him off in the debates. When McNasty blows his top, that'll show who has the best temperament for the Presidency.
May 9, 2008 3:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's going to be a source of great satisfaction for a Democratic/antiwar/pro-change coalition to take on, and crush, this old pablum-spouting jerk.
May 9, 2008 2:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
A-Freaking-Men.
May 9, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Argh! That was supposed to be in response to another_reader.
May 9, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
There was a great TPM diary by a reader that pointed out that the HAMAS endorsement could be false, and that the same writer (from WorldNetDaily) had published the same HAMAS endorsement for Kerry in 2004 and for Gore in 2000.
May 9, 2008 2:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Awsome. F*ing awsome. I cannot believe our collective memories are so short.
May 9, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
If McCain is really using World Net Daily as a source, he's gone even further over to the lunatic far right fringe than I had thought. World Net Daily is more or less the newspaper equivalent of Rush Limbaugh, and it's founder and editor, Joseph Farah, even co-wrote a book with Rush. Check this out: http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/stories/2008/kleinhamas.html
I read someplace the other day that the reason that Clinton is so doggedly pursuing the Democratic nomination isn't that she thinks Obama can't get elected, it's that she and her advisors realize that this is nearly a can't-lose year for Democrats, and she wants to be the one to take advantage of the golden opportunity. This sort of thing from McCain makes one suspect that might be true.
May 9, 2008 3:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bingo.
I've realized over the last two days that B/Hillary is contesting so hard because s/he rightly sees that the Presidency will be won in the Democratic Primary.
May 9, 2008 6:32 PM | Reply | Permalink
People will be trying to connect Obama to Hamas in November. Therefore McCain is simply raising the issue now, so that we can ensure Obama can be vetted as a candidate.
I expect these so-called "electability" arguments will comprise the bulk of McCain's campaign strategy against Obama.
May 9, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why isn't anyone in the media, punditocracy and bloggosphere--including progressive sites like this--come out and state the obvious which is that there NEVER was a Hamas endorsement. You here at TPM decry the MSM's free ride of McCain and do the same thing by using cutesy little euphemisms like "alleged". Is this how you guys will cover the General? God.
May 9, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I see McBush still hasn't regained his bearing.
May 9, 2008 2:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
Didn't Al-Qaeda endorse McCain?
May 9, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
I think McCain said it was a mistake for him to have sought Al Quaeda's endorsement, but he was glad to have it.
May 9, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sure Hagee is quite happy to hear that.
May 9, 2008 2:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
link to Dailykos diary on the possibility of Hamas endorsement being fake:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/4/27/232849/939
May 9, 2008 2:42 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does Hamas wish ill upon the US? I assume McCain would say yes.
So if Hamas wishes us ill, and wants a president that is the lesser threat to them, might they "endorse" Obama in order to hurt his chances.
Sort of like Bin Laden allegedly saying he wants the US to leave Iraq.
Bottom line: the motives these organizations have for saying these things are not known and vary. Only a real loser who has no idea about being a good president would parrot their statements and try and use them politically.
May 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Bottom line: sane people might prefer not to let terrorist organizations have any role at all in choosing the President.
May 10, 2008 9:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
So McCain is going to be semi-passive aggressive.
May 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
They are going to attack him on doing nothing in the Senate.
He gave a speech at the last convention, will give another one at this convention but has done nothing.
Still waiting on his short term gas price solution.
May 9, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
And you will keep waiting because a short term solution is not a solution at all, it's a gimmick. The only way oil prices will go down appreciably, if only temporarily, is a rise in the value of the dollar. Cheap gas is dead, get used to it you insufferable whiny twit.
May 9, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
He likes to be pandered to, most stupid people do.
May 9, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
It could also go down if we suffer and global recession and demand slows in China. Maybe gotalife would be happy for that solution too. That is, until this country starts feeling like Weimar Germany.
May 9, 2008 7:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
He's the nominee--get used to it. You got a pass when you were flogging for Hillary, but if you start campaigning for McCain, don't expect the same treatment.
May 9, 2008 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
Totally with you GL - Short term all the way! I'll treat you to a beer with my $28!
May 9, 2008 3:15 PM | Reply | Permalink
"They"?
May 9, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Passive aggressive or just plain wishy-washy. Renouncing/welcoming the support of Hagee; Iraq of 100 years but not this Iraq.
He has managed to get by for a long time by having a disarming and affable exterior (sometimes), and has benefitted enormously by being member of a party many of whose other leaders are transparently ridiculous and dangerous. Well now his self-contradictions will be in plain view, and he'll be compared not with crazy Guilianis and inept Romneys and antediluvian Huckabees, but with an attractive, dynamic young Democrat who will not let McCain corning the "straight talk" market. He's going down, hard. I think Obama's even keel and light sarcasm will drive McCain nuts.
May 9, 2008 2:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Well maybe if they like him and trust him they will sit down with him and Israel to help figure out a way to actually bring some real peace to the region.
I know a real reach to get the average American to think this far.
May 9, 2008 2:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Now that's some clear thinking jsfox. Dead on.
May 9, 2008 7:27 PM | Reply | Permalink
That's just pathetic! I know it's BS but voters should get the chance to think that it's real.
May 9, 2008 2:46 PM | Reply | Permalink
Have you noticed McCain's tell? He tries to laugh it off when he's lying. Today when he was asked about his Bush vote in 2000; it was an obvious lie. I think this will be something to watch for in the coming months.
May 9, 2008 2:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
Listening to his laugh is like listening to fingernails on a blackboard, to me.
May 9, 2008 2:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I noticed that too. Hillary has a tell whenever she is going to say something really politically stupid that she says anyway. She stammers a bit and says "you know" a lot which she doesn't do that much in her normal speech.
May 9, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
And "frankly" is another Hillary tell.
Bill's tell is that he starts out with, "I get a little tickled when . . . " Whatever follows is guaranteed BS.
May 9, 2008 4:35 PM | Reply | Permalink
Eric, I'd say that your criticisms of McCain are getting more and more creative.
If group XYZ endorses candidate A, then isn't it logical to assume that XYZ believes that there is some overlap, however small, between their goals and candidate A? And isn't it logical for people to ask themselves what that overlap might be? Or what it is about candidate B which is more anathemic to XYZ than candidate A?
If al-Qaeda comes out and enthusiastically endorses McCain, don't you think that TPM, it's lovable Obamabot readers, and the media would have a field day speculating as to why?
May 9, 2008 2:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem is of course that Hamas didn't endorse Obama. The tape floating around as proof has been debunked, but everyone's jumping on the bandwagon without investigating it.
May 9, 2008 2:56 PM | Reply | Permalink
On why???
No, I think TPM, the readers, and the media would laugh hysterically at such an endorsement. Why wonder why a terrorist organization endorses anyone?
It's only "suspect" to the media and John McCain, apparently, when some terrorist organization "endorses" a Democrat.
Me? I'm still waiting to find out definitively that John McCain isn't a Muslim. Why hasn't anyone asked him if he's a Muslim? After all, didn't he have a fundraiser with some ties to Hezbollah?
May 9, 2008 3:01 PM | Reply | Permalink
I don't think you understand the nuances. It isn't simply the endorsement, as if anyone would think to themselves "Wow, Hamas endorsed Obama, I'm definitely going to vote for him because of that!". It's a little more subtle. It's the question of what does a group (oh, maybe Hamas) see in a certain candidate that makes them think that their situation would be better if he was elected.
Their reasoning might be nonsense, or their reasoning might actually be valid (e.g. they oppose a candidate who is willing to blow up the entire world). Or their reasons might be that they feel one candidate's views are closer to theirs on some issues.
A thinking voter might want to ask themselves about such an endorsement. An idiot would just dismiss it out-of-hand without looking any deeper than simple schoolyard namecalling.
May 9, 2008 3:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
And an intelligent thinking voter might come to the conclusion that Hamas was trying to play us for the fool. Such a voter might realize that Hamas wants us to think they like Obama because they realize that this will harm his chances. Such a realization would be followed with another realization that perhaps this means that Hamas would really rather have McCain in office.
Now, an informed, intelligent, thinking voter might also realize that such claims of support are standard fare for the GOP. Such a voter might question whether such an endorsement was ever actually even made.
May 9, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Could not be more on target. Does McCain think Americans really are dumb enough not to understand that?
May 9, 2008 3:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does McCain think Americans really are dumb enough not to understand that?
Yes he does.
This has been another obvious answer to a simple question.
May 9, 2008 5:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yeah, the terrorists run in fear of Obama. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Argh, I gave myself a hernia.
May 9, 2008 4:30 PM | Reply | Permalink
Did you just say that McCain is willing to blow up the entire world?
May 9, 2008 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
They certainly don't fear McCain!
May 9, 2008 6:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
The problem with McCain is that he's pushing this stuff at the same time as he says it doesn't mean anything to him. If he is asking for peoples votes then he is asking us to trust his judgment. If he judges the Hammas "endorsement" as BS then why does it need to be pushed to voter so that they can decide.
May 9, 2008 3:21 PM | Reply | Permalink
You are correct. Because these are fabricated nuances.
What do you think about McCain's connections to Hezbollah? What does that say, to you, about McCain?
May 9, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
I did read something about McCain's Muslim roots in a widely forwarded email.
He's also traveled to, read about, and acknowledged the existence of countries that aren't Israel.
May 9, 2008 3:14 PM | Reply | Permalink
He wasn't even born in the United States! :D
(To be fair, neither was I.)
May 9, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
The funny thing about the muslim endorsement thing is everything Bin Laden wanted George Bush gave him. If Bin Laden were to endorse anyone it would deffinetly be a Republican.
May 9, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Because terrorist groups always tell the truth?
May 9, 2008 3:02 PM | Reply | Permalink
You know what happens when you assume…
Ignoring the fact that there's no evidence that group XYZ actually has endorsed candidate A, one obvious reason for group XYZ providing such an endorsment—if their endorsement is more likely to do harm than good—is because there is some overlap, however small, between their goals and candidate B.
Logic—you fail it.
May 9, 2008 3:12 PM | Reply | Permalink
Sorry, I'm trying to keep from laughing. Ok, I'm under control. What on earth is there about Obama that could possibly cause Hamas to prefer John McCain? Oh no, I'm laughing again. Yes, give me some more of your "logic". I love it.
May 9, 2008 4:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Wow. Your inability to see beyond your own world-view amazes me. It's not that they fear Obama, it's that they welcome McCain. McCain will continue the US presence in Iraq which is so conducive to their recruiting techniques.
Now do you understand?
May 9, 2008 5:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
Your knowledge of logic would fit neatly on the point of a pin, with room left for McCain's bearings and Hillary's chances.
May 9, 2008 5:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
A spokesperson for America said exactly the same thing! And one from France and England and Germany and Russia and Japan and China and just about everywhere in the world except Saudi Arabia and Dubai.
May 9, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
That journalist, Aaron Klein, who writes for WorldNetDaily, is the source of that Hamas endorsement smear. He's not a credible journalist.
Klein's also written about a Hamas endorsement of Hillary Clinton here at this link:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MmYwYTFhZDU1MjllMjUwODg3MDYxMTgzNDk2OTNjODM=
and Klein did the same thing to Kerry here by saying Hamas endorsed him:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmZmMWNmMzAxNTVmYjk0NzQxNTU5YTViMTE4NDQ1NmI=
This guy is NOT credible, and John McCain should not be using him as a source for the smear against Obama.
May 9, 2008 2:54 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, and here's the Wiki entry on Aaron Klein:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Klein#cite_note-IBD_Editorial-18
May 9, 2008 2:55 PM | Reply | Permalink
This is driving me absolutely nuts that nobody in the Blogs or the MSM is putting any effort (it seems) in verifying this smear story.
Why doesn't the Obama camp just say it is a complete lie?!
May 9, 2008 3:00 PM | Reply | Permalink
It's like the National Journal rankings for the most liberal senator. Bernie Sanders, anyone?
The MSM never looks at the source. They'd rather stay hip and post-modern and report on the reporting from drudge.
May 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
I really would like to see Greg or Eric dig deeper on the Hamas endorsement claim and do further research on Aaron Klein. He sounds like your garden variety wingnut that hangs out on FreeRepublic.
May 9, 2008 3:05 PM | Reply | Permalink
World Net Daily is a vile right wing fascist virtual rag. They must hate America too, since they have "TALKED" to the terrorists and thus have helped to legitimize them. The hypocrisy of that alone makes their motives more than obvious. That McCain has taken them up on their offer of free slime shows just what kind of campaign he's running - no matter what his wife might say on the TV.
May 9, 2008 3:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
And the KKK endorses McCain over Obama. So?
May 9, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Hamas could get gas prices to pre-Bush levels, heck, I'd vote for them.
May 9, 2008 3:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
So, something isn't true, but since it is allegedly of interest to people, so therefore it's a legitimate topic to push, despite being false?
This is the very definition of "truthiness" right here.
Do we really want this mentally-challenge piece of crap in the white house?
May 9, 2008 3:22 PM | Reply | Permalink
Over at CNN, I just read my first "Obama is DONE!!!" prediction of the general! Very exciting!
May 9, 2008 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
If the voters think that this is an important issue it is because the McCain campaign decided that the voters should think that this is an important issue.
May 9, 2008 3:28 PM | Reply | Permalink
Breaking:
John McCain has crashed his car into the Clinton's Chappaqua, New York, estate.
Apparently Senator McCain was following directions from his onboard GPS, after he had entered: "Gates of Hell".
May 9, 2008 3:29 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahhhh, the typical Republican playbook for campaigning...even though there is no truth to it and we have absolutely no basis of evidence for such accusation, we'll pander to our base voters and still pull anything we can out of our ass to fend off our opponent!
As a Democrat, I used to have so much respect for McCain - even hoping he'd one day switch parties, like we all thought he would in 2000!
But that McCain is long gone - long sucked up into the incubus of evil, abandoning all he once believed in to pander to those who can help him politically.
Now the man is a joke - a literal joke! And this is the best the GOP can put against Obama this November??? I almost feel sorry for them...ALMOST!
May 9, 2008 3:39 PM | Reply | Permalink
Ahhhh, the typical Republican playbook for campaigning...even though there is no truth to it and we have absolutely no basis of evidence for such accusation, we'll pander to our base voters and still pull anything we can out of our ass to fend off our opponent!
As a Democrat, I used to have so much respect for McCain - even hoping he'd one day switch parties, like we all thought he would in 2000!
But that McCain is long gone - long sucked up into the incubus of evil, abandoning all he once believed in to pander to those who can help him politically.
Now the man is a joke - a literal joke! And this is the best the GOP can put against Obama this November??? I almost feel sorry for them...ALMOST!
May 9, 2008 3:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain wants Hamas to affect the US presidential election. That's why he's raising the issue in his campaign. McCain believes that Hamas' opinion will change votes.
Normally, career US officials like McCain work very hard to play down outsiders trying to effect undue influence on what we do, especially when the outsiders are considered to be terrorists or harbor terrorism.
But here's McCain, in the infinite wisdom of his campaign's inner circle, advocating distribution of the opinions of a terrorist organization in the hope that more people won't think ill of him than people will think ill of Obama because of Hamas' statement.
Yes, Senator McCain, I do think what Hamas thinks is interesting and even important. I think what you say and do with it is moreso.
May 9, 2008 3:41 PM | Reply | Permalink
If Osama Bin Laden came out and "endorsed" McCain, I would giggle a little bit but wouldn't pay any more attention than that. It would obviously be an attempt to mess with the election. Same thing if he "endorsed" Obama.
Notwithstanding whether the so-called Hamas endorsement of Obama is a fake or not (the evidence that it's fake seems credible to me), why does McCain say that their endorsement should be of "interest" to Americans, when nothing else that they say should be of interest? I thought McCain took the position that we shouldn't talk to Hamas -- that it was a waste of time (e.g. for Jimmy Carter) to talk with them and surely they have nothing to say that we should listen to. So why should the American people listen to this, then?
Just askin'.
May 9, 2008 3:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
First the Republicans take military strategic advice from Al Qaeda. "Look Al Qaeda says Iraq is the central front on terrorism. Divert all military resources from Afghanistan and Pakistan there on the double"
Now they want to decide the presidency of the United States on what Hamas says. "Look Hamas says they can work with Obama. Put the war mongering McCain in the oval office on the double.
Anyone else get the impression that if the Republicans were a guy, he'd be sending money from his email Viagra buying fund to Nigeria in order to retrieve his winnings from a lottery.
May 9, 2008 3:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
Yes, because voters everywhere were waiting for the crucial Hamas spokesperson endorsement.... groan!
I can't wait until we get some debates with these two. Obama will wipe the floor with him. McCain couldn't argue his way out of a paper bag.
Further proof that McCain will do anything to appease his base. If your base jumped off a bridge would you, Senator McCain?
May 9, 2008 3:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
I love old two face, straight talk. McCain believes that Obama has nothing in common with Hamas. Thus one would conclude that the issue is irrelevant. But wait, it is relevant because someone from Hamas who never met Obama may believe that Obama may make a better president. Why? We do not know. It may be because Hamas wants to back off its old ways but feels that you could never work a deal or trust the Republicans.
I think that we should start saying that AW prefers McCain as a candidate since he would follow the Bush doctrine of wasting treasure and lives. I would also argue that AQ likes the fact that he graduated in the bottom five of his class.
May 9, 2008 3:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Senator McCain, you don't wanna go there?
Shall we make a list of all the extremists who suport your candidacy? I have a feeling it will be a lot scarier than anyone supportign Obama.
May 9, 2008 4:09 PM | Reply | Permalink
oops.
"support" is the wrong word.
"approve" is better.
May 9, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
"Some people" think McCain should try to get honest work as a used-car salesman, but does he pay us any attention?
May 9, 2008 4:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20080509/pl_bloomberg/amjmt7olwig0
hey guys, good ole teddy kennedy just put the kibosh on the obama/clinton ticket idea.
May 9, 2008 4:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
Clearly, then, if and when David Duke and his organization, the Ku Klux Klan, John Birch Society, the veterans of Pinochet's death squads, the Trilateral Commission (had to throw that in there), Lyndon LaRouche, Sun Myung Moon, James Dobson, Fred Phelps, and any other lunatic out there says they approve of McCain's candidacy, that will be of interest to the American people, too. Right?
May 9, 2008 4:25 PM | Reply | Permalink
When is the MSM going to remind voters that it was Bush who over the objections of the Israelis and the Palestinian Authority pushed for the Palestinian elections which lead to Hamas ascension to power?
Hamas has done far better under the Bush administration than they did under Clinton or would do under Obama. I am sure like Al-Qaeda, Hamas is privately rooting for a McCain presidency so the clash of civilizations which they so desperately want and benefit from can continue for four more years.
May 9, 2008 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
I just listened to the Hamas advisor on NYC's WABC (via a link provided by Fox News, of course, not TPM). And yes, he said he's all for Obama. He didn't ask where he could make a campaign donation, but it almost sounded like that's where he was going.
So the rumor being peddled above about it being a fake can be thrown in the dumpster with the WTC conspiracy theories, Bigfoot, and all the other whacko crap.
May 9, 2008 4:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Correction: someone claiming to be from Hamas said he supports Obama. As has been posted previously, several things about this "endorsement" don't add up.
May 9, 2008 5:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh so it was that Ali G. guy?
Well, seriously, if people aren't who they say they are and aren't who they are reported to be, then all bets are off, naturally.
But I will say that if that was an imposter, he was very very good.
May 9, 2008 5:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
Actually, as has been reported, it's a pretty bad fake. There's an actual person in Hamas who this guy is pretending to be. The problem is, there are already recordings of this guy, and this "endorsement" recording doesn't sound anything like him!
May 9, 2008 5:13 PM | Reply | Permalink
A link, please?
May 9, 2008 6:10 PM | Reply | Permalink
You first.
May 9, 2008 6:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
If this "endorsement" is true, then, clearly, Hamas wants McCain to win.
May 9, 2008 4:45 PM | Reply | Permalink
And why would Hamas want McCain to win?
Are they scared Obama is going to touchy-feelie and talk them to death? You know, come to think of it, I wouldn't want to have to sit there and listen to him either. Talk about torture.
May 9, 2008 4:50 PM | Reply | Permalink
Good lord, man! Your mind is so one-dimensional it hurts! Despite what Bush and Co. has been peddling for the last 7 years, fear is not the only thing in stock!
Did it ever occur to you that our presence in Iraq has done more to help recruitment in terrorist organizations than anything they could accomplish on their own? If we pulled out, I'm sure they'd see their membership decline accordingly. Is it beginning to sink in now?
May 9, 2008 5:11 PM | Reply | Permalink
You're reaching. When you put together that many unprovable conjectures to achieve your desired conclusion, it's almost always B.S. First you have to believe that they truly DO want McCain over Obama, which is hard enough to believe in itself, and then on top of that you have to go into that childish reverse-psychology drivel, and then proudly claim that this is all "logical". It's a house of cards that falls when a gnat flies by.
Also, I searched the web and you're about the only one claiming that the Hamas endorsement is a fraud. No one is questioning that it was really the Hamas top advisor on that WABC show.
The simple truth is that Hamas does want Obama to win, and the reason is most likely that they believe that he would be less pro-Israel than McCain, which would neatly dovetail with their own goals, i.e. a better deal for the Palestinians. Plus, Obama kicked off his political career in the home of a proudly unrepentant terrorist bomber, so Hamas obviously sees Obama as their kinda guy.
May 9, 2008 5:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Why do religious fanatics like anarchists?
I don't think that imposing your rules on others really dovetails with destroying all rules.
May 9, 2008 6:48 PM | Reply | Permalink
So McCain views what Hamas spokesmen say as something he should repeat and share with the American people because "he thinks" it's something that interests the American people. Will McCain provide the same service for the spokespersons who represent Al-Qaeda, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Moqtada al-Sadr, Hezzbolah, Arian Nation and the Ku Klux Klan? Will he repeat and share what they all say about himself and George W. Bush too? This is the kind of blatant BS that reveals McCain's lack of honesty and his penchant for irrational rationalizations.
May 9, 2008 4:51 PM | Reply | Permalink
So much for Cindy "I'll never show the American people who filthy stinking rich their First Lady Is" McCain's promise that the campaign wouldn't get dirty.
May 9, 2008 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
So much for Cindy "I'll never show the American people who filthy stinking rich their First Lady Is" McCain's promise that the campaign wouldn't get dirty.
May 9, 2008 4:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
I'm sorry, McCitizen, but your reasoning is flawed. Insofar as you assume that the potential overlap between group XYZ and candidate A is necessarily bad, you automatically jump to a conclusion that does not follow from the premises. In other words, your argument is a classic non sequitar.
If, for example, group XYZ thought that candidate B would wage an unjustified 100 year war against the middleeast, would they not be justified in supporting candidate A, who just might use soft-power as a means to bring about peace?
Further still, wouldn't this then mean that group XYZ could be supporting candidate A for reasons not directly related to their condition, but say, for the good of others, with whom they are closely allied?
Again, insofar as you also assume that group XYZ merely supports candidate A so that they can obtain their immediate goals, which are directly related to their well being and no one elses, you fall into another non sequitar.
And if you're going to assume that group XYZ has done things in the past, which automatically disqualifies them from making a reasoned judgment, this time, then you would be falling into another logical fallacy. Just because I reasoned incorrectly on 99 prior occassions, does not necessarily entail that I will reason incorrectly on the 100th occassion. Of course the liklihood may be that my reasoning on the 100th occassioned is flawed, but that need not necessarily be the case (note how I use the modal term "necessarily").
Thus, McCitizen, I think it would be wise for you to leave the reasoning to the adults. Nice try, though.
May 9, 2008 5:16 PM | Reply | Permalink
You messed up the whole logical structure there. You should have noticed that I did leave in a "hook" for the possibility that group XYZ is making a sound decision in supporting candidate A because B might be some kinda nut that any sane person, even terrorists, would oppose.
So if that's your explanation for why Hamas supports McCain, then there you go. You should be happy. However other people will still probably think about this for themselves, and reach their own conclusions, in spite of the fact that "zoomy123" has declared the debate over.
But if you're truly interested, then I think a better explanation than you offered is that Hamas simply believes that Obama will give the Palestinians a better deal than McCain, i.e. be less pro-Israel. It wouldn't be surprising if al-Qaeda and Hezbollah agree with Hamas in that regard and would also secretly support Obama, however they might choose to remain silent because they know their endorsement would be a negative for Obama.
That leaves us with (1) McCain the patriotic war hero, versus (2) Obama, the pal of Rev. "Damn America" Wright who visited Khadafi, and the pal of the terrorist bomber Ayers, and the preferred candidates of Islamic terror groups, and whose middle name happens to be Hussein and of couse we all see the resemblance between Osama:Obama.
Gee, do you think the GOP might be able to figure out some kind of attack ad out of that or something?
May 9, 2008 5:52 PM | Reply | Permalink
Do you really think that Hamas gives a damn about Ayers? To think that's true would mean you think that militant communists liked the supporters of Pinochet!
May 9, 2008 6:43 PM | Reply | Permalink
Does it ever occur to you, McCitizen, that all this demonizing of every Islamic nation on the face of this earth that hasn't agreed to puppet statedom has gotten us nowhere? Israel has been at this game since 1948, and we've gotten on the bandwagon bigtime at least since the seventies, and what has it done for any or us, or Israel for that matter? Just what the fuck has it done?
May 9, 2008 7:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Would any of these "interested people" happen to be McCain's new adviser Karl Rove? Maybe he'll start push-polling in the South about Obama's black children.
May 9, 2008 5:17 PM | Reply | Permalink
What McCain is doing is so high school. Clinton did the same thing by saying something to the effect by saying [paraphrasing] 'I take him on his word that he is a Christian'. Thus far the only high school moment I have caught Obama on is his comment "you are likeable enough Hillary" (I laughed!)
It is all ugly, but it is worse a large electorate believes this is all it takes to be informed.
May 9, 2008 5:19 PM | Reply | Permalink
Funny. I've heard that line of argument before from someone else. Recently in fact. I think it was somewhere during the Dem primary...
May 9, 2008 5:23 PM | Reply | Permalink
Moreover, just to add insult to injury, let's carry this argument further still.
Even if group XYZ was infamous for making errors in judgment in the past what happens if their argument is leant credibility by other respected countries? Let's say that countries C, D, E, F and G implicitly agreed with "infamous" group XYZ. What if they also felt that candidate B was going to continue to wage an unjustified 100 year war against the middle-east, and so they likewise chose to endorse candidate A? Now, an endorsement from the "infamous" group XYZ doesn't seem that big of a deal, huh?
To take this example out of its abstractness (if that is a word?) and give it a concrete foundation, consider this realistic example. Hillary Clinton threatens to "totally obliterate" Iran if they got out of line. Her comments are rightly condemned. Hamas, hearing these comments sees no difference between John McCain and Hillary Clinton in terms of their wreckless approach toward the middle-east, especially innocent people who live in Iran. So, they endorse the more temperate Obama. Does their endorsement imply that Obama is somehow defective?
(Come on. Think it through, even if you guess, you might get lucky on this one).
May 9, 2008 5:31 PM | Reply | Permalink
Nothing worse than a liberal trying desperately to prove something. Hopefully I'll end your raving by including this quote from my post: "Their [Hamas's] reasoning might be nonsense, or their reasoning might actually be valid (e.g. they oppose a candidate who is willing to blow up the entire world). Or their reasons might be that they feel one candidate's views are closer to theirs on some issues."
I think it's the latter explanation.
May 9, 2008 6:06 PM | Reply | Permalink
So you think that the KKK is supporting McCain because they think McCain is going to kill blacks?
May 9, 2008 6:40 PM | Reply | Permalink
Like it or not, McCitizen, at some point Hamas is going to have to be recognized and brought to the table with Israel. This is why Carter took the steps he recently did. Now I imagine you think that was nuts, or that he's a traitor, or some such thing. But why? Why do you as an American citizen hate Hamas?
May 9, 2008 7:47 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain thinks it is fine to attempt to hang Hamas around Obama's neck but he is thin skinned about Obama saying McCain is losing his bearings. It's time for McCain to grow up.
May 9, 2008 5:37 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain is no different than all the other Republicans. He has voted with them overwhelmingly, kept quiet during their most agregious crimes and flipped for the President and his criminal Administration when called on to do so. Why would anyone think he wouldn't approve of sleazy campaigning? The Democrats have their work cut out for them. We are going to have the hound the media to get fair coverage of dirty campaign tactics and McCains defiencies.
May 9, 2008 5:49 PM | Reply | Permalink
Stopping the constant Feed into the Strategic Petroleum Reserve ought to help immediately. I bet PBO* will do that.
*PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA
May 9, 2008 5:53 PM | Reply | Permalink
Let me just point out that Hamas is crazy, not stupid, and is politically savvy enough to beat Fatah running on issues besides Israel.
They know full well that any endorsement would hurt the one endorsed, so they cannot be stating that they like Obama because they really like him, but because they want to damage him, especially given that they told a western journalist (allegedly).
May 9, 2008 6:38 PM | Reply | Permalink
Oh, look. Another politician who will say and do anything to appeal to racist retards.
May 9, 2008 9:44 PM | Reply | Permalink
McCain: No Solutions. No Ideas. No Strategy. No Newness. No Memory. No Thoughts. No Clue. It's All About The Hype!
May 10, 2008 12:49 AM | Reply | Permalink
get a photo of him surrounded by uniforms, and give him a hitler stash
May 10, 2008 4:36 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCitizen, this endorsement is being used to scare the multitude of cowards out there just like you. Why would any tactician with any sense believe what his enemy is telling him?
They are our enemy, so we don't know what they mean with this endorsement and it is stupid to consider the point any further. Also, terrorism is about mind games, and if we as Americans let outside opinions determine our choice in leader, we are screwed. Bad guys A-Z can endorse Barack Obama and that still would not influence my choice. Know why? Because I agree with his policy plans and goals for the future.
Sure, the Republicans will make an ad about it, so? The Bush years have performed a great service, for they have opened up people's eyes to the failure of his generation to provide effective leadership. Any ads that they come up with can't hide the fact that they have been abysmal failures in every aspect of government, and at this point, people would rather side with the rookie of the year than the grizzled veteran.
Hand over the keys.
Pass the torch.
Turn out the lights.
It's over Johnny.
In other words McCitizen, if your scared, go buy a dog, or some duct tape, or a gun. Please don't vote though, because cowards are to easily manipulated.
May 10, 2008 5:26 AM | Reply | Permalink
McCain is playing to fears that Hamas wants Obama because Obama's not as tough as the ol' Maverick is. Mo thanks to anymore, "My stick's bigger then your stick" saber rattling. It's gotten us to where we are today. You only need to wave a big stick on the outside if you're a moron on the inside.
May 10, 2008 6:02 AM | Reply | Permalink
Hamas supporting Obama? Hmm, that's interesting, since they really have nothing on him other than his offer to negotiate peace (questionable) in their region.
On the other hand, it has been rumored that Vietnam (more importantly, North Vietnam) supports McCain, as if it wasn't for his collaboration with this former "enemy" he would have never been given the moniker "songbird" by others in the Hanoi Hilton. Ol' Johnny really knows how to sing when "prodded." Apparently, others in his same predicament were able to resist capitulating, but not ol' Johnnny. And you want HIM for a President?
May 12, 2008 2:40 PM | Reply | Permalink