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McCain: I Can Demagogue About Iran Because Public Is Ignorant

Okay, that's not quite what he said, but pretty darn close.

Time magazine's Joe Klein points us to a YouTube of him grilling John McCain yesterday about his attacks on Barack Obama over Iran.

McCain has been blasting Obama for his willingness to meet with Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. But in questioning McCain yesterday, Klein pointed out: "According to most diplomatic experts, the supreme leader, Ali Khamenei, is the guy who's in charge of Iranian foreign policy, and also in charge of the nuclear program."

"Why do you always keep on talking about Ahmadinejad, since he doesn't have power in that realm?" Klein asked.

Check out McCain's response...

The key line comes at the very end, when McCain says: "I think if you asked any average American who the leader of Iran is, I think they'd know."

Translation: I know I can count on Americans thinking that Ahmadinejad is the leader of Iran, so the reality doesn't matter a whit.

Seriously, it's either that or McCain genuinely believes what he said here. To state the obvious, neither is terribly confidence-inspiring...


125 Comments

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"Warmongering - because it's easier than remembering politicians' names."

I think he genuinely believes it.

Just like he believes Iran is funding Al Qaeda, and that somehow TALKING to people is appeasement.

I think, that in all fairness one shouldn't put too much faith in Joe Klien's or other Western journalists and diplomats assertions re: Iran or the power structure of its very opaque, islamic regime. After all, journalists and diplomats were wrong before about this country, like in 1979! Instead, we should hold them to the same standard we reserve for the West: put them on-camera and have them make public statements as to who's in charge of who, and who has control of what.

Besides, I don't see how the Theocrat-in-Chief Ali Khamanei should be assumed a moderate. If he's indeed in control of Ahmadinejad, as Adam Blickstein seems to believe, and Ahmadinejad's constant blabber about nuclear weapons and the destruction of Israel is contrary to Khamanei's stance, what, pray tell, prevents Khamanei from silencing his subordinate? And if he doesn't, shouldn't we at least contemplate the possibility that Khamanei and Ahmadinejad agree, at least tacitly, on these two issues: nuclear weapons and the destruction of Israel?

Just to remind everyone: we have removed Salvador Allende from power in Chile for MUCH LESS than what Iran's leadership routinely says about Israel. And Chile was a far lesser threat to the U.S. than Iran is, or can be, to Israel. Somehow, each time it comes to Israel, everyone has his/her own double standard.

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It's called sabre rattling or bluffing. Pragmatic leaders will often employ a bombastic character for that purpose. Not exactly a new thing.

Even our chimp ancestors (and chimp president) make "displays" of power including branch shaking while actually calculating their chances rather realistically should it come to blows.

The reason is very simple. A percentage of the population, in one's own country and adversaries, will always be impressed by the performance. Those unimpressed also tend to understand it's just theatrics, not done for them, but for the knuckleheads.

kozmik writes:

It's called sabre rattling or bluffing. ... Even our chimp ancestors (and chimp president) make "displays" of power

Kozmik, you're absolutely right, and this is a great analogy. Indeed, chimps do engage in "sabre rattling", but usually such displays are directed at other chimps, especially when ready-to-mate chimpettes are within hearing of visual range.

However, you'll never see a chimp trying to provoke a tiger, unless he's suicidal or something (no, I am not a chimp shrink), or he smells that the tiger he faces is a pathetic weakling, a "paper tiger". Real tigers don't allow those who are lower on the food chain to get away with such shenanigans.

Bottom line: This world's "animal kingdom" has its rules.

Rule #1: Iran is not a tiger -- for now, and its sabre rattling can get it hurt, badly. That's irresponsible because the real victims won't be the Ayatollahs or Ahmadinejad: it will be the millions of innocent Iranians.

Rule #2: We are the world's only Tiger, albeit a somewhat bloodied one, due to our lack of success in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hence, we must effectively defang Iran's nuclear ambitions, or there will be many others who will rise to challenge us.

Rule #3: see Rules #1 and #2.

P.S. The defanging does not necessarily equal military action, though such option must clearly be on the table (something about credible threats, etc.)

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That's utterly goofy. You should get some air.

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Chimps and tigers don't live in the same part of the world.

I have seen chimps gang up on leopards. Chimps don't challenge leopards one on one. They attack in a group using sticks (clubs.) Leopards will take chimps whenever they catch one alone. Leopards run away when they see a gang of chimps coming. Leopards have been known to take humans when they catch one alone. Men have been known to club leopards. Leopards also run away from gangs of men when possible.

One final observation. Leopards don't bully chimps. They eat them.

ronbyers:

Thanks much for the above info. -- I knew none of this. If I was a primate, I would turn away, hide my face in shame, and expose my hairy butt. :-)

P.S. I was going to use a lion for the allegory, but "paper lion" didn't work, so I switched to a tiger. "Paper leopard" doesn't sound right either...

Here's a third option: It is entirely possible that the Iranian system is more tolerant of a wider spectrum of opinions than you surmise. Perhaps it is more of that famous US parochialism which sees Iran as this monolithic and implacable foe?

uasseh writes:

It is entirely possible that the Iranian system is more tolerant of a wider spectrum of opinions than you surmise.

ROTFL, LMAO! Man, that was funny!

Just in case you were serious: please explain how come this wide spectrum of opinion includes exactly ZERO Iranian leaders who argue the opposing POV, i.e. that Iran needs no nuclear weapons and that Israel the Jewish State is legitimate and has the right to exist?

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Actually there is a wide spectrum of opinion in Iran. Iran's educated middle class is highly liberal and much like Europeans. Iran is not a backwards state. It's a fairly modern and liberal country equivilent to Turkey.

For a little perspective, these are pictures of Iran's democratically elected leadership in the 1960's and former Shah from Google images. Notice the western cosmopolitan fashion such as mini skirt and intellectual garb. Notice that whether it's the Shaw the US backed in a coup, or the democratically elected PM, they're both in European fashion.

http://www.solomoniccrownheraldry.org/Images/History%20One%20Hundred%20Eleven.JPG
http://www.laguia2000.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/mosaddeq.jpg

We have such poor relations with Iran for one reason: greed for oil.

The US and British staged a coup d'etat of the democratically elected Prime Minister, Mohammed Mosaddeq, in 1953.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Mossadegh

He was a liberal (in the classic sense) reformer, educated in the Sorbonne in Paris. We overthrew him for a single reason: the nationalization of Iranian oil which the British had controlled for half a century, and which they continually meddled in Iran's internal politics to maintain a hold of. He even offered to split profits 50/50 but the British refused. British Petroleum (BP) was formerly known as British Anglo-Iranian Oil.

After the US/British backed coup, Iran went through a revolutionary period in an attempt to establish strong government capable of resisting US/British influence, corruption, and coups. During which time the influence of militants naturally increased.

The Iranian Hostage Crisis occurred in the US embassy where the 1953 coup had been staged from. One of the hostage takers said at the time ""You have no right to complain, because you took our whole country hostage in 1953.”"

Today, Iran is still a moderate and liberal nation overall. It's certainly one of the most developed and liberal countries in the ME.

The British still maintain full diplomatic ties with Iran.

All this fear mongering over Iran is nonsense.

kozmik writes:

Iran's educated middle class is highly liberal and much like Europeans. Iran is not a backwards state. It's a fairly modern and liberal country equivilent to Turkey.

Today, Iran is still a moderate and liberal nation overall. It's certainly one of the most developed and liberal countries in the ME.

Look, I have much respect for Iran's ancient civilization and illustrious history. However, your examples of democracy. liberalism and moderation all go back to the 1950s and 60s, when Iran was a much different country than it is today.

In the aftermath of the Islamic revolution, some 80 percent of Iran's intelligentia and the upper-middle class, and almost a 100 percent of the non-Moslems amongst them, have emigrated to the West. Moreover, Iran's population has more than doubled -- in less than 30 years(!), and today some 55 percent of all Iranians are under the age of 25.

These young folks have never lived under, or known anything other than the Ayatollahs regime, and their embrace of Western values is superficial (i.e. music, fashion, electronic gadgetry) rather than ideological and deeply held (i.e. real democracy, individual freedoms, etc.)

With all due respect, I'm afraid that the Iran you remember and love is no longer; it's more your nostalgia talking than reality.

I could use your help with a poster named "Igor" over at thehill.com on a post by A.B. Stoddard. I seem to be the only one there willing to debate "Igor" about Obama vs McCain and this guy is whack! :) Besides the fact that he sent me to a link that offered "ann coulter's weekly newsletter on conservatism",... yikes!... he is convinced "talking to" is appeasement and McCain is excellent on foreign policy. It's frightening.

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"I think if you asked any average American who the leader of Iran is, I think they'd know."

Nicely done, dirtbag. Americans also thought (and think) that Iraq had something to do with 9/11.

Geez, either he's cynical or delusional. Not very confidence inspiring,indeed.

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But does Klein justifiably excoriate McCain over this in his writing and point out that McCain is not up to snuff enough on foreign policy to be POTUS, or does he give him a pass?

Whichever the case, Greg here does not let it slide.

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Hillary gave him a ride over the threshold. Move along now.

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The very best part of that vid was his obvious discomfort and his obvious having to reign himself in.

O I saw his face start to flush. His temper is just barely in check. This going to be too much fun!

I can't WAIT until McCain blows up on camera. You KNOW it's going to happen sooner or later. It's going to be awesome.

I just hope that he isn't baited into flaming out, in which case the public would turn on the 'liberal' media and reinforce McCain's 'maverick' status.

This is playing with fire. But I would love to see him go down in flames.

That should occur sometime during the first debate.

rynato:

Don't hold your breath! Repug. handlers are very good at controlling their candidates. To remind you: in 2000 they managed to make Dubya appear both compassionate and reasonably competent.

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I doubt he'll totally lose it and start screaming... though he could. He clearly wants to supernova and is barely keeping it in check for the cameras.

Regardless, his temper, stubbornness, and inability to hear criticism or opposing views is readily apparent right under th skin and TV camera grins. It raises serious questions about his temperament and mental agility; his fitness to be President.

While his physical health is a serious question, his mental health is a far more serious question imo.

Unfortunately, as we'll all experience as we reach his age, the mind becomes more rigid and less capable of absorbing new information with age. Combined with McCain's legendary temper and inability to hear dissent, it can make for a very bubbled and incurious Administration. Like GW Bush, or worse.

Maybe this is the start of the MSM finally testing McCain's supposed "expertise" in foreign policy.

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Meh... yes McCain's supposed expertise needs to be challenged considering he makes mistakes all the time.

However, I think Josh got suckered on this one and took the bait on a non-issue. Josh should have thought through how this issue plays out.

Whether Iran's leader is the nutjob is a suit who denies the holocaust, or the supposedly moderate pragmatist in the turban who looks like most American's "terrorist" nightmare... Not really helpful. Nor do we really want to entangle Obama in a debate on the subject which is a side show at best.

I think Josh got wonk-duped on this.

nice, but i have a hard time seeing the general public grab hold of this. The general public has never heard of Khamenei.

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It's ok if the general public couldn't pick Khameni out of a lineup. But the media might start questioning McCain's bona fides as a national security expert.

A cat can dream, right?

I doubt the general public knows who Ahmadinejad is.

Face it, I doubt the general public could even find Iran on a map!

That's going to be the tough part of Obama's campaign, being smart enough to convey the larger aspects of his plans in words that can be easily understood by the majority of Americans whose thought process consists of Middle East = Bad.


To be fair, when your idea of international relations is lobbing Tomahawk missiles, you don't need to remember names. The blast radius'll probably be big enough to hit both of them.

When I see this kind of insanity spilling out of McCain's mouth, it makes me more convinced than ever that we need to stop this infighting.

BOTH Clinton supporters (like myself) and Obama supporters should whole heartedly agree that comments like this have terrifying implications. I commend Obama for his speech yesterday. Yes, I prefer Hillary as the candidate, but the fact of the matter is, I can't travel back and time and convince Euclid to change mathematical theory.

This is the bottom line. The beliefs John McCain stands for directly contradict the founding principles of the United States of America. This is not a candidate driven issue - it's a moral one.

I'm gonna go ever farther than I have in the past and even invite whatever moderate republicans might be willing to join our ranks so that we can work together. It's time we finally marginalized the far right and it's mission to subvert what this country is all about.

I think I'd be hard pressed to find someone who disagrees with me on this post.

Perhaps as a sign of your desire to unite, you can drop the avatar. Some of us ardent supporters of the the 13th Amendment find it a bit distasteful.

Pretty sure this is Bizarro fogu2, not the real one.

I do believe you are correct. %20 fogu2 or something like that.

Yup.

Working on this - server issues - please bear with me.

This icon was always in bad taste. And when tempers flared, I went with a low blow. It was the wrong thing to do and I"m sorry about it.

This country has a long and awful history of racism and sexism, and the Democratic party has long been a force AGAINST those two evils. Let's work together to fight bigotry on all fronts.

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Dude - your post is totally belied by your gravatar.

Pretty sure this guy is a fake, like gotaiife. (gotalife with an Uppercase I vs lowercase L).

Click on his name to confirm.

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I'm in a holding pattern for the time being. ;)

I know you guys may have some suspension of disbelief issues with these posts - but believe me - it's Fogu.

I've decided to have an open mind for a change. I'm sick of the junior high mentality that's been running rife over this post, and I think the responsible thing to do is cut this out and start acting like an adult.

Not to offend any of our younger posters.

I for one welcome fogu2 to the party, the united party.

If anyone comes along pretending to be fogu2 to spread crap that's divisive, we should blast them as being a fake.

I'm glad to see fogu2 has come to realize we must join to stop McCain.

Fuck you.

that's more like it!

Same here. I can spot the fake getaiile, but with rational fogu2 I'm still lost.

Fake fogu2 spells too good to be me.

Hey Sweetie. You missed me! Faux fogu2 is not nearly as, um, succinct.

And the avatar thing, fo sho.

Wow! Thank you for your assessment. McCain would be a disaster for America.

I didnt' call him McSame by accident folks.

It's true - Kool aid guzzlers (kidding) AND HRC supporters - we don't need this guy.

I'm getting exhausted putting down other dems. this is a dead end.

I'll vote for Obama if it comes down to it. No McSame in '08.

Oh, that's rich. Another space cadet!

The HillCamp must have sent out the memo or something...lets hope this rapid change of heart is infectious and viral!

%20gotalife. Same person as %20fogu2.

As far as I can tell- I am only me.

Gimme a break - ok?

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Which leg?

Not gonna say I didn't deserve that.

I've said a lot of crap things. I am sorry.

Lets make a deal. I will try to start acting with a little respect, and you can give some in return.

The infighting doesn't help us. Believe me, I know.

I will try to start acting with a little respect, and you can give some in return.

Good idea, and I for one welcome it. Perhaps as a sign of that respect, you could follow fogu2's example and change your avatar to something more in line with your sentiment?

Yup.

Ok, Fogu has been kidnapped! This person is an impostor!

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Why is this surprising?

A mainstay of GOP electioneering is the ignorance, nay, stupidity of the American public. Without stupid people no Republican would get ellected.

This is just par for the course.

The funny thing is if people stopped trying to be so damn smart all the time and tried to be more compassionate, we'd be a whole lot better off.

Hey, admins, I'm having trouble uploading pics to my profile, or any other changes whatsoever.

Could McCain's long honeymoon with our fickle press be approaching its end?

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I wouldn't hold my breath. Radio/TV is a comfortably deregulated industry and will do what it must do to stay that way. Their chief responsibility is to the private shareholders of their parent companies, over their license to operate in the public interest. John McCain has done alot of favors for the Right People from his place on the Senate Commerce Committee, and I don't expect the journalistic establishment of the industry to shit where it eats.

His vaunted conviviality with press people goes away the minute he has to face a skeptical question, and turns into the almost unhinged testiness of an old guy who's not used to being challenged.

Contest: Who will be the first reporter McCain calls one of the 7 dirty words on the record, and what will the word be?

Sample entry: David Gregory -- "asshole"

No kidding. He was very patronizing. I have a feeling that a lot in the press corps are going to be falling out of love with McCain during this campaign. The straight talker of 2000 has been replaced by a talking point spouting patronizer.

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unhinged testiness of an old guy who's not used to being challenged.

Old man shakes fist at cloud!


And this McCain's "strength"! We. Got. This. Thing.

Unfortunately, the Republicans owe much of their success over the past seven-plus years to the political ignorance of the American public. Again, this is straight from the Rove-Bush playbook.

"Oh, hell, they'll never know the difference, so, fuck 'em and feed 'em fishsticks!"

Fortunately for us, the economic tide has turned against the Republicans (Oh, yeah, and there's this dustup in Iraq, too) and even the ill-informed recognize that the status quo ain't cuttin' it!

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I quote Dean Wormer vis-e-vis the electorate:

"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

The question is whether this is an issue of integrity or a decline in mentation.

McCain has nothing on Reagan when it comes to ignorance of the issues and the names of people and groups. Reagan got elected twice. Hell, he'd probably get elected now if he ran even though he's dead.

OTOH, Reagan raised taxes when necessary, and he removed our troops from of an unwinnable situation in Lebanon when faced with Americans dying for no reason. I don't give McCain that much credit.

He is talking about w's base.

30% that still believe w is doing a good job.

He will win them and the other States Obama has disenfranchised.

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Name a single state Obama has "disenfranchised".. and if you trot out Michigan and Florida, you get a free bonk on the nose.

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States like this one?

http://www.amishrakefight.org/gfy/

WOW! your back! Okay, now post back to back with Bizzaro GotaIife and lets see if we can tell who is who.

Greg - having some issues - I've been hacked. Help here please?

McCain's fire then aim strategy is going to ricochet. You don't even have to be a Democrat to admit this.

Despite the fact that I'm a Hillary fan, I'm a big enough man to admit that Obama's speech yesterday had guts that I hadn't seen from him before. If he keeps talking like this I think us Clinton supporters can get behind him.

Bullshit on the hacker. Think I'll have to up the ante.

Okay, if you are you, say, "I think john McCain will not be a good president"

Come on - I'm not crazy OR stupid.

I think john McCain will not be a good president.

You guys happy now?

Let's start talking about actual issues - I the great thing we can do on this post is feed eachother info so that we can engage people with actual FACTS when then need convincing.

You're also not me.

Perhaps gota[one]ife is actual gota[el]ife, who pulled this ruse to demonstrate the credulousness of us Obama supporters -- thereby proving his larger political point. If so, well played, Sir!

HELP!!!!!
I'm trapped in a bad Star Trek Episode!!!!!!!

If only one had a pointy beard.

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LOL!

He can't answer any question that strays from the "talking points". I can't wait for the first debate. McCain is so screwed.

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McCain absolutely knows he's pulling a fast one, lying to the ignorant.

As Adam Blickstein points out over at Democracy Arsenal, he used to know who really sets foreign policy in Iran:

This passage from a 2003 CQ piece suggests that when moderates held elective power in Iran, McCain himself acknowledged that the theocratic leaders (ie the Ayatollah and the Council of Guardians) wielded ultimate political power in Iran:

The administration's nod to the Biden-Hagel gesture toward Iran appears at odds with its stated policy. Last year, the White House said it would abandon its policy of cultivating the moderates surrounding Khatemi, saying they had little influence. The administration said it was opting instead for direct appeals to the Iranian people through U.S.-funded radio broadcasts and other programs.

Some other lawmakers strongly supported Biden's initiative. "If you're looking for
progress with a member of the 'axis of evil,' the best chance is probably here," said Pat Roberts, R-Kan., the incoming chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

But others saw the effort as futile. "People go in there and meet the moderate foreign minister and the moderates around him, and they fool themselves into thinking the regime will change," said John McCain, R-Ariz., a senior member of the Senate Armed Services Committee. "The religious mullahs will never let them."

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Sorry, I forgot how broken blockquote is in comments here. The fourth and fifth paragraphs should have been a continuation of the second.

Nice catch.

i'm wondering why people give McCain so much credit on foreign policy matters. he has no idea what he's talking about. he's not a particularly intelligent man, and he has no formal background in foreign policy beyond being a Senator (which pretty much amounts to nothing in terms of implementable policy one is accountable for). is it just that he sounds hawkish, therefore he must know what he's talking about? could it be that easy?

of course Ahmadinejad isn't the leader of Iran, his governmental position is effectively that of figurehead and yes-man for the Ayatollahs. he's nothing more than a distraction, both to Iranians and for the rest of the world. the power and ability to direct the country lies in Ayatollah Khamenei, but McCain ignores this fact simply because Khamenei isn't a suitable strawman for his "Iran is evil" canard.

blackstar writes:

i'm wondering why people give McCain so much credit on foreign policy matters. he has no idea what he's talking about. he's not a particularly intelligent man, and he has no formal background in foreign policy beyond being a Senator

It's always a good idea to consider whether an argument you make cannot be turned around and used against you or your candidate.

It's exactly the case here. While no one questions Obama's intelligence, he too lacks formal background in foreign policy, and his experience as U.S. Senator is much shorter than McCain's.

IOW, try a better way to discredit McCain without putting the spotlight on our guy.

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i'm wondering why people give McCain so much credit on foreign policy matters.

It's the same common wisdom that McCain cites to prove his assertion that Ahmadinejad calls the shots in Iran.

Bombin' Johnnie's at the top of the loooong slide into senescent dementia, imho/ianap...

Reverse Robin Hood Why is John McCain wrong on health care? Think credit cards.


http://www.slate.com/id/2191699/

Excerpt from the article:


McCain argues that different states' regulations "prevent the best companies, with the best plans and lowest prices, from making their product available to any American who wants it." Although he hasn't given details, his supporters say that he favors an approach, endorsed by President Bush and championed by McCain's Arizona colleague John Shadegg, that would allow insurers to choose the state laws under which they are regulated. (I e-mailed the campaign about the specifics of McCain's approach and didn't hear back.) An insurance company that chose to be regulated under Arizona law could sell policies in New York without following New York rules. Arizona, like most states, lets companies charge what they want to people who are sick—or simply deny them coverage altogether. Under Shadegg's bill, insurers wouldn't even need to pick up and move their operations; it would be enough to file some paperwork with a state insurance commissioner and pay that state's relevant taxes.

If enacted, this proposal would cause a shift along the lines seen in the credit-card industry. Like the Citibank of old, New York insurers would have little incentive to continue doing business under New York's laws. Insurance companies can make bigger profits by offering different policies to different people based on separate assessments of risk rather than charging everyone the same, as a state like New York requires. An insurer operating under Arizona law would be able to offer healthy New Yorkers a cheaper policy than an insurer working under New York law that has to price policies the same for everyone.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? In the credit-card industry, there's a pretty decent argument that the old usury laws restricted access to credit, even among people who needed it and could use it well. And competition among card issuers has led to a proliferation of rewards programs—frequent-flyer miles, hotel discounts—that work nicely for people who pay their bills in full and on time. There's also a classic libertarian argument for deregulating credit cards: MasterCard never put a gun to anybody's head.

The problem is that without consumer protections, companies use pricing practices, like teaser rates, to attract cash-strapped families and then slap those families with interest rates of 35 percent or higher plus penalties of $35 a month. Rates can double or triple without notice, even if you never miss a payment. Credit-card use and bankruptcy rose together for years (until the 2005 federal bankruptcy legislation), and last year, banks made $40 billion in plastic profits. For families drowning in debt (often from health expenses, by the way), a credit card may be the only life raft—but in the memorable words of Elizabeth Warren and Amelia Tyagi, authors of The Two-Income Trap, the raft turns out to be made of cement.

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Whatever the case Democrats need to understand that these guys want to attack Iran. There is a very good chance Bush will do it before he leaves office. Dems need to accept that and start working to stop it by educating the people on the insanity and inhumanity of it, so when it does happen we will be better positioned to denounce the attack when it happens.

i fully expect 'em to do it on jan 19, 09, just outta spite..and to cover their tracks with another layer of national security...

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At this point it would be good to recall that Bush41 deployed troops to Somalia about a month before Clinton was sworn into office.

... and initiated the stand-off with the Branch Davidians in Waco, TX.

Does this mean Joke lein's trying to reclaim his balls from the blind trust into which he locked them 5 years ago?

So he's just talking to the 28% hard core supporters of Bush and the residents of the State of Denial? Sooner or later they are all going to figure out that it's piss and not rain. Or not.

Either way, we can smell them when they are coming.

Ok, I have to admit, I don't really see the big deal here. Ahmadinejad is, in fact, the public face of Iran in international relations, not Ali Khamenei. When Obama says "I'll talk to the leadership of Iran" - I think it's reasonable for people to assume that he's talking about Ahmadinejad. And I say, good on Obama for getting us away from the last 8 years of idiotic foreign policy. Ahmadinejad is a nutter, but he's no crazier than a lot of the world leaders we have talked to in the past, many of whom we called "allies."

Basically, I don't think this is a debate to have with McCain. It seems very much like splitting hairs and it waters down the force of Obama's logic with Clintonian backpeddling.

Well, I doubt Obama will bring it up. He doesn't need to.

But the most important takeaway from the video is HOW McCain responds to tough questions (ie, not in a good way)

I so LOVE this video!
It encapsulates, for those who wish to analyze it, all that is wrong with McCain, and is so like Bush.

Much has been to this effect above, but I'll repeat because it is THRILLING.

Like Bush, McCain, stops dead at his own little joke, and almost brings the questioning to a halt over it.
Like Bush, his jocularity is a thin veil over a white hot temper, easily engaged when his will or knowledge is questioned.
Like Bush, his personal ignorance over foreign policy details (like who is running Iraq, for instance) is purposely conflated with general ignorance.
Like Bush, only one opinion is tolerated.
Like Bush, we see same "deer in headlights" expression when the thin veneer of "military/foreign policy expertise" is scratched.
Let's party!

Lovelynina:

Don't be so thrilled. Remember, Bush got elected/selected TWICE -- in this country, and so did Bush pere!

I try to stay positive, but these are 3 good reasons to be mortified, because it can happen again.

John McCain's Navy Flight Instructor Weighs In


May 19, 2008

Greetings!


I was John McCain's Navy Flight Instructor --- in formation tactics and air-to-air-gunnery. I could write a book about this man. Suffice to state, I shudder (and I'm fearless) at the nightmare thought of this man becoming our next President and Commander in Chief. I am not alone as to this man's former shipmates, instructors and senior officers --- as to who and what this man is really all about. Although politics is really theater and the best performing actor gets to stay on the main stage --- sorta like American Idol only much more dangerous to all living things --- the performance and the make-over (re-invention) of this man is currently matched only by that of former LTC Oliver North, USMC (Ret.). Together on the same ticket, these two clowns would be real crowd pleasers in this sorry day and age of liars, banal dummies and limp-headed performers.

Thanx for having the guts to put the real deal information on the site re: John Sidney McCain III --- since the mainstream media is much too lazy to put the real story on McCain out there for the rest of their lazy consumers.

Best regards,

CDR Jerry K. Loeb, USN (Ret.)
Palm Desert, CA

Author - ANTHEM (2004)

The above is from Huff Post.

I'm not surprised McCain will have blowback from former associates.

The right will not unite behind McCain. They may not vote for Obama, but a depressed conservative vote vs an energized Democratic base = Obama victory.

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Why is McCain APPEASING the press?

I still have not gotten over how Bush stuttered, mumbled & did not even answer many questions during the Kerry, Bush debates, remember the famous SNL sketch Of "this is so hard" we've all heard over & over. Kerry buried him over & over & still lost, the nightmare continued.

Thanks to the internet & todays communication fast track people should be much better prepared to fight the MSM. We can only hope.

If the pursuit of Rove continues it should help. He single handedly has nearly brought down the republican party. LOL how sweet THAT would be if it actually happened.

I think this is bringing up the paramount issue:

John McCain is not the straight talking candidate he's been masquerading as. It's about time we start making it know that he's exactly what this country doesn't need.

If it's Clinton, I'm happier. If it's Obama, I"m not as thrilled, but I"m not going to be stupid enough to say don't vote for him.

But what he will need is a strong cabinet, and should Hillary be made "health care czar", I think a lot of people would be very very happy.

Hacker needs to be banned.

right, and your racist comments should not?

Begone, troll. You have been assimilated by Obamatopia.

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That's pretty scary. Is he going to have a poll when he becomes president to see who the public thinks he should talk to?

If John McCain is as tough as he thinks he is, he should be able to handle uncomfortable questions from the press. But you can tell from that video clip how irate he was. When he gets annoyed, like he did with Mitt Romney in some of the earlier debates, he gets visibly arrogant.

Every journalist and blogger should continue to hold pundits and politicians accountable for the things they say.


Lovelynina: you love this video for all the right reasons.

My only quibble is that, like Bush, it's impossible to know for sure if McCain is really that ignorant or that dishonest. But, as with Bush, it does not really matter. Each possibility is awful.

Ali Khamenei is the supreme leader of Iran and since 1989 and was president for 8 years before that. He holds the real power in the country and obviously he is the "decider" to borrow a phrase. But he isn't a fruitcake who says obnoxious and controversial things so I guess McCain isn't real interested in talking about him.

The problem with McCain is not that he doesn't know who the real boss is in Tehran. The problem is that he does not understand foreign policy. He thinks diplomacy is appeasement. Diplomacy is not appeasement, it is a recognized approach to resolving disputes between countries in a peaceful way. Bush/McCain do not want that -- they just want to make preemptive war that they do not know how to finish. That is the problem, not whether he knows who is boss in Tehran.

To reveal McCain's ignorance is not bad, but if that distracts from the real issues, then it is not good.

I probably don't like or trust Joe Klein any more than I like or trust John McCain. But what exactly did you mean by "Joe Klein points us. . . ." I read that to mean Klein is preening about his "gotcha" moment with John McCain. And it's really not a "gotcha" moment at all when you look at the video. Klein may be correct, technically, but who cares? You're not going to change a lot of votes by pointing out that McCain thinks Ahmadinejad is the leader of Iran but it's really Khamenei. I hope Obama doesn't get into a debate whether he meant that he's willing to talk with Khamenei, but not with Ahmadinejad. That's inside-the-beltway stuff that gives "pundits" like Klein wet dreams, but is basically meaningless. The video that gives me wet dreams is James Baker saying, "Of course, you talk with everybody. That's not appeasement."

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if you actually asked the average American:
56% - "some towelhead"
26% - "Osama Bin Laden"
13% - "Saddam Hussein"
4% - "Mackmood Armageddon"
1% - "Barack Obama, Secret Muslim"

Jesus H Christ, is it possible we could have a president even DUMBER than dubya??? Say it ain't so!

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Do you think THE GREAT AMERICAN PUBLIC will ever realize that they're being taken for a ride by
ALLLLLLLLLLLL THE POLITICIANS?

It's all a big joke, and the jokes on the PUBLIC.

It makes no difference whether your believe this phony McBush guy (talk with someone who really knows what kind of individual is a fighter pilot, in any branch of the services). It's ALL A CONCEIT THING, especially when you're "short" and trying to live up to a/o exceed your Father/Grand-Father's reputation(s).

PUT THEM ALL UP AGAINST A $100 BILL, AND YOU'LL FIND OUT IN A HURRY. JUST LIKE THE PREACHERS.

The government of Iran only "seems" to be opaque because the MSM have been woefully remiss in educating the public about it. Anyone who wishes to know about it can learn all they need to know at CIA Factbook Iran. Ahmadinijad is NOT the supreme leader of Iran. In fact, he has no more power than the Mayor of Tehran.

Haven't you wondered why we haven't heard from Ahmedinijad in a long while now? The Iranian newspaper reported that the Iatollah ordered him to "shut up" and focus on the economy.

The Iatollah has the power to determine who can and who cannot run for president. If Ahmedinijad had disobeyed him, he would not be running for reelection. That should tell you something...

krikkit writes:

The Iatollah has the power to determine who can and who cannot run for president. If Ahmedinijad had disobeyed him, he would not be running for reelection. That should tell you something...

Conclusion: Everything the obedient lieutenant Ahmadinejad says about Iran's nuclear weapons and about plans to destroy Israel must have been coordinated with and approved by the Theocrat-in-Chief Ayatollah Ali Khamanei.

Thank you for making the point for me. Now, can we please stop dreaming about "moderate Ayatollahs"? It's an oxymoron -- there is no such thing.

Please allow me to explain. The Iranian system below the Federal level is a democracy. Shock!!! It is only at the highest levels of government, headed by the Iatollah, that democracy takes a back seat to religious fundamentalism.

Furthermore, the average age of Iranians is very young. Most adults have come of age after the 1979 revolution. Most of them favor Western culture. Most of them chafe under religious restrictions. Most of them, given another 20 years, will most likely be responsible for yet another revolution, in favor of the West, if we don't start bombing them.

This is not "rosy thinking" but based on facts on the ground in Iran. Furthermore, the Iatollah is selected by the Council of Clerics. When the current Iatollah dies, it is they who will choose the next Supreme Leader. That council is now headed by the most reform-minded man in all of Iran, Rafsanjani, who's attempts to reform the highest government by implementing sweeping civil liberties was stymied by the Iatollah when HE was president. Indications are that the next Iatollah will be more in line with Rafsanjani's ideals. Unless, of course, we start bombing them.

The information is out there for anyone who is willing to educate themselves about it.

Please allow me to explain. The Iranian system below the Federal level is a democracy. Shock!!! It is only at the highest levels of government, headed by the Iatollah, that democracy takes a back seat to religious fundamentalism.

Furthermore, the average age of Iranians is very young. Most adults have come of age after the 1979 revolution. Most of them favor Western culture. Most of them chafe under religious restrictions. Most of them, given another 20 years, will most likely be responsible for yet another revolution, in favor of the West, if we don't start bombing them.

This is not "rosy thinking" but based on facts on the ground in Iran. Furthermore, the Iatollah is selected by the Council of Clerics. When the current Iatollah dies, it is they who will choose the next Supreme Leader. That council is now headed by the most reform-minded man in all of Iran, Rafsanjani, who's attempts to reform the highest government by implementing sweeping civil liberties was stymied by the Iatollah when HE was president. Indications are that the next Iatollah will be more in line with Rafsanjani's ideals. Unless, of course, we start bombing them.

The information is out there for anyone who is willing to educate themselves about it.

krikkit writes:

the Council of Clerics ... is now headed by the most reform-minded man in all of Iran, Rafsanjani

Ahh, Ayatollah Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani -- of the Iran-Contra infamy... How can one forget that righteous snake, who was implicated in both the assassination of Iranian-Kurd leaders in Greece as well as the bombing of the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires? A reminder: the latter took the lives of a 100 innocent people.

By the way, it was the "moderate", "reform-minded" Rafsanjani who in 2001 called on the Muslim states to use a nuclear weapon against Israel. Well, of course he should be our BFF. Does he have a page on Facebook?

P.S. BFF = Best Friend Forever

krikkit writes:

When the current Iatollah dies, it is [the Council headed by the reform-minded Rafsanjani] who will choose the next Supreme Leader.

Hmm, I just checked with Wikipedia:

Ali Khamanei - age 68;
Rafsanjani - age 74.

It's very possible that Khamanei will be the one appointing Rafsanjani's replacement.

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